Step right up: Want to join the Seattle City Council and fill outgoing council member Tammy Morale’s District 2 seat? Applications opened on Thursday for anyone—well, U.S. citizens who are registered to vote in Washington and live in District 2—who wants to join the council. The remaining council has 20 days after Morale’s last day on Jan. 6 to fill the seat. Apply! Be the change you want to see and all of that. As a reminder, Morales peaced out of her role because the current council was allegedly terrible toward her. All prospective candidates should have that knowledge. Send a resume, cover letter, and a completed financial interest statement form via email to councilvacancy@seattle.gov.
New president for Seattle schools: The Seattle School Board picked West Seattle lawyer Gina Topp as the new president of the body ahead of a year where Seattle Public Schools faces an estimated $94 million budget deficit.
The weather: It’ll be wet with temperatures hovering in the high 40s. That’s downright balmy in comparison to the rest of the country.
Baby, it’s cold outside: Starting this week, places east of the Rockies will experience three weeks of bitter, arctic-like cold. With the frigid temperatures comes travel disruption as well as strains on power grids and higher natural gas prices.
Amazon is back at the office: Seattle’s favorite local start up required its workers to return to five days of in-person office work starting in the new year. So far, nothing in South Lake Union seems super different or notable in the wake of the mandate. Maybe the hustle and bustle will return. Maybe all of the work-from-home Amazonians will fix all their potassium deficits once they start eating free bananas again. This is the extent I know about working at Amazon.
Inching closer: In the wake of the New Orleans attack, the calls to ban cars from Pike Place Market are back. Good. Cars don’t belong there. If we had a city council that wasn’t full of people who only drive to Whole Foods for their groceries (I’m making this up, but it seems right?) then maybe something like this could happen. (Psst: Maybe you could make it happen? Apply to be on the council. Only if you don’t suck, though.)
Even people with worms for brains agree:
It is unfathomable incompetence that police still don’t take adequate measures to ensure cars cannot access streets (including sidewalks) where crowded events are taking place. Allowing Pike Place Market, for example, to continue to be open to cars is a special kind of stupid. https://t.co/9kxZ5a9Ode
— Brandi Kruse (@BrandiKruse) January 1, 2025
While we’re at it: Let’s go even further.
You want to pedestrianize Pike Place, I want to pedestrianize the entirety of Western Avenue from Yesler Way to Bell Street.
— Ryan Packer (@typewriteralley.bsky.social) January 2, 2025 at 1:28 PM
Car-less futures would be easier with a functional transit system: The light rail will be hell for two months as Sound Transit executes planned service disruptions and slowdowns. These are necessary to keep expanding the line, but it still sucks and makes it hard to develop a dedicated ridership when the service isn’t reliable. Don’t even read the news about the new high-speed train from Paris to Berlin that recently opened. It will only make you upset.
Updates on the horrors: Officials now believe the driver in the New Orleans terrorist attack that killed 14 people acted alone. The man, killed after a shootout with police, was identified as eight-year Army veteran Shamsud-Din Bahar Jabbar, 42, from Texas. Authorities reported that he was inspired by ISIS to carry out the attack. Switching over to the Las Vegas cybertruck explosion, police identified the driver as an Army master sergeant from Colorado on leave from active duty. He reportedly shot himself in the head before the explosion.
Oopsy: Apple agreed to pay $95 million to settle a lawsuit accusing the tech company’s voice assistant, Siri, of recording private conversations and selling them to third parties for targeted advertising. After five years of litigation for a proposed class action lawsuit, Apple paid up, but admitted no fault. Instead, Apple said Siri recorded people “unintentionally.”
Biden blocks Nippon Steel acquisition: Japan’s Nippon Steel wanted to buy Pittsburgh-based U.S. Steel for a cool $15 billion. President Joe Biden—a title we can use for only a smattering of days—blocked the deal to ensure homemade steel remains the majority of the US’s steelmaking capacity. Additionally, as of last month, the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States (CFIUS) couldn’t reach a consensus on the security risks of the acquisition.
No net neutrality: Despite a 2021 Biden executive order for the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) to reinstate open internet rules, a US appeals court ruled the FCC did not have that authority. The ruling was based on a Supreme Court case this past summer known as Loper Bright where the Court overturned a 1984 precedent “deference to government agencies in interpreting laws they administer.” The Supreme Court continues to whittle away the power of government agencies. So, now internet service providers don’t have to treat all users equally. They can slow speeds or block content.
Big wave alert:
A 23-year-old Santa Cruz local caught a towering wave near Half Moon Bay that was recently estimated to be 108 feet tall, which would make it easily the world’s largest wave ever surfed.
The current world record is 86 feet.
Read more: https://t.co/CjAtWnApdI pic.twitter.com/isw9NFwktk
— KSBW Action News 8 (@ksbw) January 2, 2025
Guess what? Tonsil regrowth occurs in approximately 1% to 6% of people who have had their tonsils removed.
Congress to vote on Speaker of the House: Later today, we’ll get to see how the new Republican majority in both houses of Congress flexes its power. With a narrow 219-215 majority, House Republicans should be able to secure Speaker Mike Johnson’s return to the role, but those Republicans are squirrely. Trump endorsed Johnson on Monday, writing online that Johnson “is a good, hard working, religious man. He will do the right thing, and we will continue to WIN.” I’m hoping for drama.
Alcohol causes cancer: This should not be surprising. Alcohol is not only bad for you, it’s one of the leading preventable causes of cancer. U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy, said “alcohol directly contributes to 100,000 cancer cases and 20,000 related deaths each year,” according to the New York Times. He wants alcohol labels updated to detail the “heightened risk of breast cancer, colon cancer, and at least five other malignancies” that come from consuming alcohol. However, only Congress can make those changes to warning labels. And, just so we’re clear, these effects come from moderate drinking, not just excessive drinking. Maybe you should consider extending your Dry January.
“Apple agreed to pay $95 million to settle a lawsuit accusing the tech company’s voice assistant, Siri, of recording private conversations and selling them to third parties for targeted advertising.”
whilst some call it
a Smart Speaker
others’re call-
ing it a Rapt
Listener:
when your
EVERY Convo’s
a Confession whytf
Wouldn’t Bezos (or Apple)
hand them over to MXtrumpf
(or go straight to Gitmo themselves)?
big fucking
Brother will
See you now.
and
don’t Forget
to Thank your
Smart Speaker.
@1 The election for Smart Speaker is going on right now. Popcorn!
Ryan Packer’s idea to pedestrianize Western is terrible. Better to turn Western and Virginia into an all-ways ped crossing with a traffic light.
The pedestrianized Pike from 1st to 2nd is awful. It was redesigned to limit vehicles to 1 lane, and then the city changed its mind, apparently, and decided to block the 1st Ave. end with some shitty planters. It’s covered in pigeon shit and has dead storefronts all along it. No one wants to sit there with shambling junkies, bucket drummers and insane megaphone preachers. Take the planters out; at least cars are activity.
“Cars Are Activity” should be Seattle’s motto.
eltrumpfster
got it right: spkr Johnson
IS a god-fearing man who’ll do
Everything in his Power to Ensure we’re
ALL God-fearing even if it takes an Inquisition
and Brother
it’s Gonna.
ending
Democracy
(what little’s left)’s
gonna take a True Believer
& mike johnson’s Exactly Your Man
[pls Gawd:
just say
No].
Bernie Sanders demands the DNC bans super-PAC money from Democratic primaries:
“I believe the Party should make a public statement about our values and simultaneously consider actions that punish candidates who refuse to adhere to this principle. Let Democratic candidates compete with each other based on their ideas and grassroots support, not on the kind of billionaire super PAC money they can attract. Let us try create a Democratic Party which is truly democratic”
https://bernie-cms-prod-assets.s3.us-east-2.amazonaws.com/media/documents/Letter_DNC_SuperPACs.pdf
It’s time to go beyond the rhetoric about Citizens United ,,,, We see you DNC
@6 there’s absolutely no reason not to do this… except of course that all the people in position to make the change are addicted to big PAC money, which I’m confident means it’ll never happen. Unfortunately.
“The light rail will be hell for two months as Sound Transit executes planned service disruptions and slowdowns”
C’mon, the planned disruptions will be annoying for those affected, but “hell”??
Also, the weekday disruptions happen after 5:30pm. The weekend stuff affects the downtown stations (although slowdowns elsewhere). There are many riders that won’t be affected at all. Screaming something like “the light rail will be hell for two months” just scares people.
@6
whoa, ab
back the Fuck
up.:you’re a Putin
PLANT. Nevah foget that!
j/k!
but kudos to pissonya
for Converting you
and (seemingly!)
Over-Night!
Welcome
to the Fold!
the
‘d’nc’s*
beholden
Solely to itself
*LLC,
bitches!
from Independent Voter News
[‘]D[‘]NC
to Court:
We Are a Private
Corporation With
No Obligation to Follow …
The Democratic National Committee argues that it is a private corporation with no obligation to follow its own rules and neutrality standards in the 2016 presidential primary.
A federal judge dismissed the lawsuit filed by Bernie Sanders supporters who claimed they were misled and harmed by the DNC’s favoritism of Hillary
https://ivn.us/posts/dnc-to-court-we-are-a-private-corporation-with-no-obligation-to-follow-our-rules
they don’t f Care
if we the peeps don’t
Want ’em. We’re on Our OWN.
LLC? lol! lol!
As soneone who is forced to use public transportation once in a while I’ll agree that it is “hell”. Between sanctioned drug use and violent mentally ill vagants on board it’s my last choice in transportation in Seattle. Speaking of rail, high speed rail between berlin and paris is a great idea, I’m sure a certain 1930s dictator would have loved that option!
@7 “there’s absolutely no reason not to do this”
Of course, especially since the public agrees that billionaires and corporations have way too much influence on our politics. Democrats could frame it as an issue of corruption, which it is, and draw the contrast with the corrupt GOP and the Supreme Court (thus campaign for term limits to promote democracy …). There is no good reason not to do this, except for those who like corruption of course.
@4: LOL, have you been to any other cities in America? Seattle is by no means the most car-centric.
we’ve known for years that alcohol is dangerous (DWI,, behavior, problems, liver issues, cognative decline, etc., not to mention the cost of all those trendy drinks advertised in TS). Pot isn’t much better now that we have some actual studies to refer to. we as a society should be suing the hell out of the alcohol industrial complex along with all the politicians who are voting for drug use. why is it we can sue the oxy industry and big tobaco, but not these clowns? Look, I know that most of TSs revenue comes from these businesses but come on people!
looks
like it’s Big
Mike Johnson
our terrifying New
speaker of the house.
The tobacco lawsuits were based on the knowledge that the big tobacco firms modified their products to make them more addictive while publicly saying their products were neither addictive nor harmful. Similarly, Purdue was marketing a drug they knew to be addictive while actively lying about it with falsified data. They weren’t sued over the product but the willful deception about its risk. You can’t say the same for alcohol or marijuana.
@12 Sure, but “Less Car-centric Than Indianapolis” doesn’t sound quite as good.
@15 – the alcohol industry has benefited greatly from the false impression that low to moderate consumption is tied to lower heart attack risk. And many in the marijuana industry still believe they are medical providers. 🙄
I think there are plenty of lawsuits ahead.
As long as Super PAC money is a big factor in general elections, purposefully excluding it from primaries seems like a recipe for less electable candidates.
It’s not that I don’t like or don’t want Super PAC money out of politics, it’s that losing elections seems like a bad way to get any policies I like implemented.
There must be days when The Stranger SLOG staffers race each other to call in ill, rather than have to absorb the bullshit and type it back out.
💜💛
🎸🤘☮️
17, The alleged health benefits of alcohol were based on independent research that was later found to be flawed due to inherent bias in the data, not anything the industry has been falsely producing and promoting itself. They certainly haven’t been trying to create the impression that their product is not addictive or harmful, which is at the heart of the tobacco and oxy lawsuits.
Similarly, there is independent research demonstrating the benefits of marijuana usage in certain circumstances that long predates the industry. There is no legal basis to sue corporations for claims it did not procure itself under false pretenses.
@20,
“The alleged health benefits of alcohol were based on independent research that was later found to be flawed due to inherent bias in the data, not anything the industry has been falsely producing and promoting itself.”
It’s a good thing that we never have to re-examine gun studies (both pro and con) in the same way. Once out there, they are gospel, no matter what new studies are made, and no matter what reasonable critiques of old studies are made.
21, I would ask what point you think you’re making but I don’t care. People are always reexamining our research methodologies and making strides to understand the risks and benefits. Unfortunately there is a huge gap in gun safety research because federal law prohibited its funding for decades. If anything, the gun lobby is an excellent example of an industry that is likely to be subject to tobacco-like lawsuits due to its active suppression of research into its harms. If they thought guns were a benefit to public safety they would have been encouraging research, not using its power to suppress it.
https://ysph.yale.edu/news-article/lifting-of-federal-funding-ban-tied-to-increase-in-gun-violence-research/
@18 I think what Bernie has noticed is that working-class people want guaranteed healthcare, and the healthcare PACs don’t want them to have it. So the choices are: Take the PAC money, offer the working class another big fat nothing, lose the election. Or don’t take the money, lose the election by being massively outspent.
Bingo
Bromide
REPEAL ‘Citizens
fucking United.’ & bless You.
Bernie Sanders isn’t a Democrat… he just aligns with the party when it suits him politically.
If he wants a say in how the Democratic Party runs primaries, he should actually join the party and advocate such a policy. But he’ll keep playing the “independent” card… a real profile in courage.
I suggest that we pass a Constitutional Amendment prohibiting the manufacture and consumption of these cancer-causing alcohol products.
@18 The facts largely show otherwise: Obama didn’t take corporate PAC money in 2008, so did Sanders in 2016 while polls consistently were showing him winning against Trump. Neither were short of financial support.
Dozens of congressional candidates have since rejected corporate PACs, some successfully, and likely more would have been successful with support from the party machine. For example, only 3 out of 44 Democrats who pledged to not take superPAC money in 2018 were outraised by their opponents. etc …
SuperPAC money doesn’t come free and the resulting message is so compromised that it doesn’t guarantee winning, especially when facing candidates who claim to represent the little guy. Even when winning with corporate/billionaire support, the failure to pass anything that people really want eventually depresses voter turnout due to widespread distrust
@26: Since alcohol works to lower inhibitions, we should call this amendment something memorable like pro-inhibition. We can workshop the name.
@25 Bernie Sanders and Stacey Abrams Should Pick New DNC Leadership, Says CNN Analyst: They’re ‘Very in Touch With the American Public’
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/bernie-sanders-and-stacey-abrams-should-pick-new-dnc-leadership-says-cnn-analyst-they-re-very-in-touch-with-the-american-public/ar-AA1wFfty
@26 We have the most conservative constitutional amendment process in the world so good luck (I know you are kidding)
What is a Ryan Packer and why does it have such fanciful ideas?
And the “pedestrianizing” of Pike is a prime example of why SDOT needs oversight. See also the bus-only portion of Third Avenue.
@ab
“… the failure
to pass anything
that people really want
eventually depresses voter
turnout due to widespread distrust… “
and BILLION$
spent on denigrating
opponents on the boob tube, et al
ten MILLION Dems stayed home.
the ‘d’nc’ll shove another corpor-
ate capitulator next time should
there Be one down our throats
and we’ll fucking LIKE it. we’re
Rapidly running outta
fucking TIME
[are they selling
time’s cover-
boy on TP
as of yet]?
@18 “As long as Super PAC money is a big factor in general elections, purposefully excluding it from primaries seems like a recipe for less electable candidates.”
The PACs are just buying influence. Once actual Democrat voters choose their preferred candidate, without a bag of money tilting the scale, the lobbyists and independently wealthy will still jump on board with their “support” lest they be shut out if that candidate wins.
@31 Ryan Packer is part of The Urbanist. Basically their whole goal in life is to ban all cars and SFH in the name of density.
@22, And yet we have tons of gun safety research, both pro and con, yet it doesn’t tell us what we think it does.
https://reason.com/2016/01/05/you-know-less-than-you-think-a/
@26, If reducing harms is the justification for laws and regulations reducing freedoms, then you are correct. We need such laws, and we need them to be Constitutionally permissible.
But why stop there? We should also mandate what people can and can’t eat. Heart disease, stroke, cancer, and diabetes are some of the most expensive to treat and form the largest component of health care costs. Obesity is a substantial risk factor for each.
@22, Oh look, the first homicide of 2025 wasn’t caused by a firearm. It was caused by a vehicle.
It wasn’t caused by the person driving the car.
It wasn’t caused by the person who stepped in front of the car in the dark.
It was caused by the car itself. We should really call these events autocides.
If you are asking yourself “how is there global warming if it’s 30 below in Chicago?”, this is for you, although the following is a clear and succinct explanation (less than 3 minutes long) for everyone of why climate change is likely responsible for extremely cold temperatures in the Eastern half of the country:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhtz98t5UIo
Understanding how global warming affects the polar vortex
“If reducing harms is the justification for laws and regulations reducing freedoms”
That’ s regressive mumbo jumbo. Usually, the way it works is reducing harms via regulations protects freedom from harm for the many. In other words, preventing special interests from having free reign to cause harm doesn’t reduce freedom, it increases freedom. Tobacco regulations are a good example of what I am talking about so are clean air regulations, etc …
@39, Like the obese (I am) imposing costs on everyone who pays for healthcare? That imposition by a smaller group, on a larger one? On that basis, our food consumption choices should be regulated.
Clean air regulations, internalize, externalized costs. It forces the purchaser of the product or service to pay for all of the costs of the lawful uses of the product or service, including the costs to other people who didn’t buy the product or service. I have no problem with that.
Set Israel Free?
nyt:
Israel’s
Military Pounds Gaza
as Pressure Mounts for Cease-fire
[Your tax dollar$$$, Hard at Work]
Gaza’s health ministry said that 88 people
had been killed over the past day. Israeli
and Hamas officials have been holding
indirect cease-fire talks via
mediators in Qatar.
[Your tax dollar$$$
Hard at Work mur-
dering oodles of
Civilians]
The Gaza health ministry said in a statement on Sunday that 88 Palestinians were killed in Israeli strikes over the last 24 hours.
The Gaza Civil Defense, an emergency services agency, said that its crews had responded to multiple airstrikes on family homes on Sunday in which several people were killed and wounded.
Numerous earlier rounds of negotiations have faltered amid gaps in the two sides’ demands. And as hopes for a cease-fire deal between Israel and Hamas rise again, Palestinians and human rights organizations say the humanitarian situation in Gaza is getting even more desperate.
[Your tax dollar$$$
Hard at Work mur-
dering oodles of
Civilians] [yes,
even Children
too! Oodles
of them!]
And Gaza’s health ministry said on Sunday that the Indonesian Hospital in northern Gaza was no longer providing services to patients or the wounded — leaving the northern part of the enclave without any functioning hospitals amid constant bombardment.
Israel’s military has been mounting an offensive in northern Gaza for more than three months against what it says is a resurgent Hamas force.
–by Hiba Yazbek; 1/5/25
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/05/world/middleeast/israels-military-pounds-gaza-as-pressure-mounts-for-cease-fire.html
@41: Wow, you’ve actually admitted Hamas exists! After only fifteen months of your bitter complaining, each and every time some other commenter here dared even to mention Hamas. That’s a huge amount of rapid progress. For you.
Can your understanding there’s an ongoing armed conflict be far behind? With a mere five billion years remaining until the sun burns out, you could still get there! Keep slogging!
@42
my Gawd
wormmy your
Fealthy to Honesty’s
as AWOL/missing in action As Ever
small
Wonder
you earned
your monnikkker
so Well over time.
After only fifteen
months of your convoluted
Justifications bibi’s still Genociding
and you’re
still ‘Winning,’
Wormtongue.
YOUR
Tax Dollar$$$
Hard at Work, America.
thanks in no
Small part to
YOU, wormmy!
you’re
doing Wonders for
Both bibi AND AIPAC
but
your
Hell on
Palestinians.
@42: To be clear, though, he only admitted Hamas exists in the context of negotiating with Israel, not in the context of, you know, fighting Israel. Kristofarian is still on the fence as to whether Hamas has ever actually fired a weapon at any point after October 7, 2023 😃
@45: kristo’s version of WWII would be fascinating. Year after year, American bombers depart from bases outside the United States, to kill German children in their beds, even though Germany had never attacked the United States. Toward the end, the Americans reject all peace initiatives from German leaders, instead grinding Germany underfoot in a mile-by-mile invasion, until the Americans’ only and unceasing demand — Germany’s complete and unconditional surrender — finally happens.
All of those German children killed, due to Americans’ mysteriously implacable bloodlust — and all paid for with American tax dollars!
@46: He would definitely blame it all on AIPAC, too, if you know what I mean!
Wormtongue &
his ai socking-puppet
re-witing History: they’ll get
along Well under eltrumpfster’s
reign of terror: perhaps as Advisors
nevertheless:
they’re just Here
to see to it tS Ain’t.
prima facie evidence that any news about the butchery taking place in Gaza will be met by unhinged commentary from our resident genocide cheerleaders
@43 “my Gawd
wormmy your
Fealthy to Honesty’s
as AWOL/missing in action As Ever”
No shit Kristo. Sick puppy will not tolerate anyone mentioning Israel’s ongoing bloodbath in Gaza.
@50: Aw, did our calling kristo’ out on his chronic dishonesty upset you? Please go back to my description of US armed aggression against helpless German children, and tell me which fact was wrong.
Better yet, do as @45 suggested, and try to find a single instance of kristo’s acknowledgement of Hamas’ combat activity after 10/7. Would that soothe your hurt feelings?
Bingo @ab
wormmy just don’t
Like it when We’re Reminded
WHO’S PAYING FOR THIS GENOCIDE:
U.S.
& good ol’
smokin’ Joe
just sent another
SIX BILLION $$$* to
a country providing Its
Citizenry with Proper Healthcare
*it’s for a Good Cause:
bibi’s keep-outta Prison
gambit cum Genofuckingcide
“Aw,
did our
calling kristo’ out
on his chronic dishonesty… “
Wormtongue – our resident
lying-ass Projector just
doing what he Does:
his
best
to Sabotage
tS’s derr Schlogg
@50: lol, Kristofarian was on here the other day ranting about “the Jewish Lobby” 😄 Tensorna’s WWII thought-experiment was spot on, that is exactly how progressives would have talked about it! 😂
@53: I’m proud of everything my tax dollars may have done to destroy Hamas, cripple Hezbollah, topple the Assad regime, and reduce Iranian influence in the region. I’m sorry some of those combatants persist in mingling with, or hiding behind, civilian populations; you can take your objections to those combatants, their commanders, and whomever funds them.
And I will continue standing proudly with Sen. Bernie Sanders, in not calling any of the above, “genocide.”
@46 it’s funny you think your side is America in your hypothetical. Was it America that confined a disfavored ethnic population in walled communities, stole their property, and committed human rights violations against them, all in the name of defending the country from them?
@57
Ancient
Hysteria
thirteen12
Olde
“news” in
other words!
(and
don’t
even Men-
tion REPARATIONS)
@Wormtongue:
“I’m
sorry
some of those
combatants persist in mingling*
with, or hiding behind, civilian populations… “
you were Forced
by
an Existential Force
to commit War Crimes
you’re the
Victims
bending
the Arc of
Justice backwards
with all possible force
*there’s your Justification
all the Minglings the
hiding behinds
all those
Children
‘sheltering the Terrorists’
now Buried
under the
Rubble
@57: “Was it America that confined a disfavored ethnic population in walled communities, stole their property, and committed human rights violations against them, all in the name of defending the country from them?”
Yes. Yes it was. https://www.archives.gov/education/lessons/japanese-relocation
Hey, we shouldn’t take needless chances when fighting fascism, right?
Modern progressives might agree.
@59 look America had a right to defend itself after the Japanese attacked on 12/7, and it’s only because the Japanese saboteurs hid amongst the civilian population that America had to commit all those human rights abuses.
Did I do it right?
@57: lol, Hamasnik pretends he would have taken America’s side in WWII. 🤣🤣🤣
gosh
wormmy
your plan
is working
@61 you definitely would have taken America’s side, and explained how it was entirely necessary to nuke two cities because only overwhelming force can end hostilities and the Emperor made America do it by not capitulating sooner so it’s all his fault really
@61: Having made entirely the wrong choice when it was very easy (“Genocide Joe” vs. Stop Trump), they remain completely convinced they would have made every last one of the right choices when choices were all extremely difficult (history’s largest economic failure leading to history’s largest war, violent political extremists everywhere). For example:
@63: You’re the head of a democracy; in the army you command, almost every soldier and family member can vote. You can either risk a ground invasion of Japan, possibly making Iwo Jima and Okinawa look like small picnics, or simply continue the ongoing campaign with labor-saving larger bombs.
Try not to break your brain on that one.
@63: Ha ha ha, @46 got your number! 😂
@63, We took far more lives not nuking Tokyo and using conventional bombs.
We saved millions of lives by nuking Japan and not invading it to force a surrender. We estimated 314,000 American dead in the invasion.
In the invasion of Okinawa there were over 100,000 civilian dead. The ratio of American dead to Japanese dead was 1:7 based on Saipan and Okinawa.
Extrapolating that ratio to an invasion of Japan, instead of nukes, and you get 2.1 million dead Japanese.
So yes, the nukes were far more humane.
The way to save the most lives in warfare is force one-side, or both, to feel such pain, they quit fighting earlier, rather than later. The longer less than decisive force is used, the higher the casualty count.
they bomb
civilians mercilessly
in hopes of hearts & minds
we tried that
in Southeast Asia
but they hid underground
so we destroyed their croplands
with Agent Orange poison (made by
Dow and Monsatan) but we bombed them
anyway.
we Had to
teach them a
Lesson! one we Never
Learned. then came CHENEY/
bush & Afghanistan Iraq
& now Palestine where
the Bombs All say
Proudly Made in
the US OF A!*
and we put
the Smiley
Faces on
them!
it’s a Nice
touch.
*the kids at my grandkids’
school had a bakesale
where they raised the
moneys for those
stickers.
I could Not
be Prouder to
BE an American!
@67,
The percentage of Gazans that support a two-state solution over armed resistance, keeps rising as the war goes on.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gazans-back-two-state-solution-rcna144183
@67: You definitely can bomb Arab nations into acceptance of Israel’s right to exist. Worked for Jordan, worked for Egypt, worked for the PLO… usually does work eventually, but always requires multiple treatments before it does. Fingers crossed this will be the last time Gaza needs it, but of course that’s up to the Gazawiyn! 🩷
Gazans
opposing
Hamas pay Dearly
for opposing their oppressors
do Gazans
welcome their
hidings behind?
would
You?
from 6 months ago
nyt
As War Drags On,
Gazans More Willing
to Speak Out Against Hamas
Ordinary Gazans are bearing the brunt of the 8-month Israeli military onslaught on the territory and many blame the Palestinian armed faction for starting the war.
On Oct. 7, as the Hamas-led attack on Israel was unfolding, many Palestinians took to the streets of Gaza to celebrate what they likened to a prison break and saw as the sudden humiliation of an occupier.
But it was just a temporary boost for Hamas, whose support among Gazans has been low for some time.
And as the Israeli onslaught has brought widespread devastation and tens of thousands of deaths, the group and its leaders have remained broadly unpopular in the enclave.
More Gazans have even been willing to speak out against Hamas, risking retribution.
–by Raja Abdulrahim and Iyad Abuheweila, June 15, 2024
Raja Abdulrahim reported from Jerusalem, and Iyad Abuheweila from Istanbul.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/15/world/middleeast/hamas-gaza-israel-war.html
and they haven’t
since gotten
one bit
Nicer
@66: Atop all of that, an Allied invasion of the Japanese Home Islands might not have ended the war. The Imperial Japanese Army controlled the entire coastline of China, to a considerable depth. 100 million Chinese citizens lived in that Japanese-controlled area. The Emperor and Tojo’s government could have retreated to the mainland if their Home Islands were lost. During our atomic bombings, Truman was already trying to get a promise from Stalin, to move the Red Army into action against the Imperial Japanese Army on the mainland. If the war had continued there, it would have been the largest land war in history, fought by multiple armies upon China’s most arable land.
The death toll would have started in the millions from the combat alone, possibly tens of millions more from the resultant famine, and even the war economy of the United States (which, at the time, was feeding both the Red Army and Chiang Kai-shek’s Nationalist Army) might not have been able to support such a vast land war in Asia. The defeat of the Japanese Imperial Army on the mainland would have left the Red Army and the People’s Liberation Army on one side, with the Nationalist Army and US Army on the other, each holding a large amount of Chinese coastline. The Chinese civil war, which had been suspended by the Japanese invasion, might then have been decided by those forces. The death toll from that? Pick any number you like, so long as it’s very, very large.
Getting the Emperor to demobilize “his” soldiers was the best alternative, and the United States achieved it. These folks here on Slog now second-guess Truman, and get it very, very wrong. As is their wont.
our little Genocide
on our Indigenous’s
remarkably similiar to
your scenario @57, ab
just
Another
Genocide.
if you’d included the
prison/school/Reeducation
camps/death camps for Their
Children it’d be Indistinguishable
@66 “We saved millions of lives by nuking Japan and not invading it to force a surrender…. So yes, the nukes were far more humane.”
As long as you implicitly trust the assumptions and estimates from the people who dropped the nuke and therefore have everything to gain from convincing people it was actually “humane.”
Actually that’s the consistent theme from you and the other two when it comes to foreign policy: implicitly trusting that whatever the US government says is good is good, and whatever they say is bad is bad.
and in
Other News
speaking of Satus Quos
nyt:
As Democrats Reel,
Two Front-Runners Em-
erge in a Leadership Battle
The race to lead the [“]Democratic[“] National Committee centers on the favorites, Ken Martin and Ben Wikler, but the party’s infighting over them looks nothing like a broad reckoning with its 2024 defeats.
[the billionaire Reid] Hoffman, who over the years has contributed millions of dollars to the Democratic Party of Wisconsin, is supporting Mr. Wikler, according to a person briefed on the billionaire’s deliberations.
“The best thing about him, in my view, is he is a completely honest broker between the ideological factors in the party,” said Matt Bennett, a founder of Third Way, a centrist think tank that has backed Mr. Wikler and has a long relationship with Mr. Hoffman.
“That has got to be the ideology of the D.N.C. chair: Get to 50 percent plus one, and then once you’re in office, go with God.”
–by Reid J. Epstein – who covered the last election for D.N.C. chair eight years ago and will be doing so again this month — Jan. 5, 2025
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/05/us/politics/dnc-race-ben-wikler-ken-martin.html
keep to the Middle listen to the
Consultants Eventually, they’re
Gonna somehow Get it Right
it’s just Odds, is all it is;
not to Worry peasants
the
Next
Win is
Just around
The next corner!
I can Almost
SEE it! I can
Certainly
Smell it
It smells like
Horseshit.
@73 — True Believers eating
outta the Status Quo’s
filthy bloody Dirty
little hands
I believe America’s use of atomic weapons in Japan was the right thing to do and did save many lives, American an Japanese, by forestalling a long and costly invasion. I’ve actually met Paul W. Tibbets, the pilot and commander of the Enola Gay; he signed my pilot logbook. An outstanding officer and a great American.
The great thing about America is you’re free to think differently about this, or anything else.
@73, The casualty projections for the invasions of Saipan and Okinawa were accurate. The death ratio of 7 Japanese to every American was from counting the Japanese dead at Saipan and Okinawa.
The casualties projected from invading Japan were all based on actual results from the prior invasions.
A footmote: All the purple hearts (award.for being wounded in combat) in use to this day, were ordered by the military for the invasion of Japan.
The deaths from the conventional bombing of Tokyo, vs nuke deaths from Hiroshima, vs Nagasaki are from the Japanese government.
Our understanding of Japanese decisions regarding continuing to fight vs. surrender are all from Japanese source material.
Meanwhile, today marks exactly four years after Trump’s failed coup attempt. Jesus. Fucking. WEPT.
It’s like 2017 all over again, but exponentially WORSE.
DJT is a convicted felon! The rest of us would be rotting IN PRISON for committing 1 / 10th of the inexcusable crimes Donald Trump, the single most unfit person to ever command the White House, is guilty of!
Don’t look at me, MAGAs and “undecided voters”, when Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos start dancing their favorite Orange Sock Puppet to their every self serving whim. And when you lose your Social Security and Medicare to fund Musk’s latest solid gold rocket fleet for NASA for his own world record profit$ profit$ profit$ over sheeple.
In addition, we just lost net neutrality, thanks to Trump’s Extreme Court. Jeff Bezos must be chortling all the way to Wall Street.
Further exacerbating things, according to Danny Westneat [see The Seattle Times, Northwest section, pages C1 and C4: Homeless Report Shows Disaster in Our State, Sunday, January 5, 2025], Washington State and King County are among the leaders in unsheltered homelessness. We need more shelters to get people off the streets. Bureaucracy over building low income housing, while not providing adequate shelter is becoming a regional nightmare economically. It is pretty sad that nationally we are among states with the highest homelessness statistics. And New York has 2 1/2 times our state’s population.
Rest in peace, Jimmy Carter. I’m sorry you had to witness all this before passing away on December 29, 2024, after casting your final vote at age 100 for Kamala Harris and Tim Walz.
I wish I had answers.
Quoting Bruce Eric Kaplan, cartoonist for the New Yorker Magazine:
“Remember how nice things were before they made America great?”
Okay, Nathalie. If I am to choose my cancer, it’ll be red wine—an antioxidant, and good for the heart—in moderation (i.e: one glass or two a week, with water and food)—any day over Orange MAGAturd Donald John Trump and its gluttonously profiteering owners, Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos, the REAL cancer plaguing this MAGA benighted country.
Just sayin’.
@14 kristofarian: Yep. We’re fucked all right-wing-nut-job.
Good thing I stocked up on dark chocolate and some red wine.
It’s going to be a rough four years, provided we get that far.
@58:
“you were Forced
by
an Existential Force
to commit War Crimes”
Hamas is not “an Existential Force,” it’s just attacking Israel from behind civilians. Your chronic and bitter refusal to admit those well-documented facts doesn’t make you morally superior, but rather the opposite.
@73: Still awaiting your incredibly brilliant plan to end WWII without nukes. Or do you need another 75+ years to equal what Truman did in a week?
@auntie Gee
good comments!
@wormmy
you’re Off-
Message on A.
and you’ve
Oh-so-Conveniently
totally Ignored the money-shot:
‘you were
“Forced” to
commit War Crimes.’
totally
Unsurprising
for an AIPAC/Israeli
propagandist/socking puppeteer
Happy J/6!
hmmm:
is Today the Day
of Reckoning for
tS’s Commentariat?
also: don’t let
Thedonold get it,
Kamala! Joe can do
ANYTHING he Wants!
arresting eltrumpfster
resigning, giving it All to
Kamala who won’t Certify
or do we just
move along
quietly?
yeah.
probably.
@73: “…implicitly trusting that whatever the US government says is good is good, and whatever they say is bad is bad.”
I’d ask you for examples of that, but experience shows you’ll just refuse to give examples, call me names, and restate your unsubstantiated opinion as fact, so I won’t bother.
Meanwhile, ignoring Hamas’ well-documented use of human shields, unquestioningly treating every casualty in Gaza as a civilian, and blaming Israel for each such ‘civilian’ death — these are all exactly what Hamas wants, so why do certain commenters here persist in doing Hamas’ bidding?
@Wormtongue:
“unquestioningly treating
every casualty in Gaza
as a civilian… “
is a nice
Counter to yours
and the IOF’s treating
Every fucking casuality
including the 2/3 of whom
are Women and Children as if
They were willing Shields sheltering
unquestionably those who’d sacrifice Civilians
instead of Forced Shields
which’s what Isarel does to them as well
as Shields in clearing Hamas’ tunnels
or on the Battlefields of Palestine
they’re getting it
from BOTH SIDES
and We the
Citizens of these
United States’re dumping
BILLION$ into this Genocidal Massacre
cum keep-bibi-the-Fuck-OUTTA-Prison
gambit. bibi’s Gotta GO. End
the Madness
@84: “…as if
They were willing Shields…”
Whoever said or implied they were willing? Commenters here have been very clear Hamas’ actions violate the Fourth Geneva Convention, which does not require consent of any “protected person” to make use of them a crime.
(One of the reliably saddest of moments is when a hospital director says he had no knowledge of Hamas’ using his building. Why on earth would Hamas tell him they were using him, his staff, their patients, and their building as cover for attacking Israel? That would be poor operational security, to say the least.)
@85: Some of the civilian human shields are probably willing. I suspect most of the UNRWA school principals are willing participants in Hamas’s scheme to store weapons inside protected structures. Fatah Sharif, an UNRWA school principal and head of the UNRWA teachers association in Lebanon, turned out to be a Hamas commander in Al-Buss. Something tells me he’s not the only one. 😉
your
incessant
justifications
not~with~standing
tho they Do
stand for
. Now .
history
& lotsa
the Planet
are Not gonna
Forgive Israel’s Massacre
and Jews
Planet-wide
will be Blamed
for the actions of
a relative Few & of
course those Complicit
all to keep
one man
outta
jail
@87: lol, I highly doubt the “Jews planet-wide” are holding their breath for the world’s approval! 😂 That ship sailed many, many centuries ago! 😆
@87: Yeah, after your dodges all fail you just refuse to answer the questions. Why do you do what Hamas wants? Do you honestly believe anything good will come of that? Don’t you want to end this conflict asap? You yourself quoted how Gazans have tired of war, and favor a two-state solution. Knowing that, why prop up Hamas, even rhetorically? We should be pushing for peace, not making excuses for warmongering terrorists. Keeping Hamas going just makes it harder to have the Israelis dump Bibi en route to the peace table.
@80 none less than Gen. Marshall thought they should first nuke a strictly military target, then if that didn’t work a manufacturing center, not cities. But I’m sure you can explain how Truman was a more brilliant military strategist than Marshall and knew it was necessary to kill maximum civilians, and it wasn’t at all that an equal motivation was to demonstrate the terrible power of the new weapon to the international community, specifically the USSR.
@90: “…they should first nuke a strictly military target,”
Hiroshima held both the Imperial Naval Academy and Imperial General Headquarters. The latter was destroyed by the atomic blast.
(https://www.tracesofwar.com/sights/91237/Remains-Hiroshima-Imperial-General-Headquarters.htm)
“…then if that didn’t work a manufacturing center, not cities.”
“Fat Man detonated … almost directly above the Mitsubishi factories that were the city’s primary targets, rather than over the residential and business districts further south. Tens of thousands of civilians, especially children, had already been evacuated from the city.”
(https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/bombing-nagasaki-august-9-1945)
“…wasn’t at all that an equal motivation was to demonstrate the terrible power of the new weapon to the international community, specifically the USSR.”
That was an additional intended benefit, which alone may have ensured the U.S.-led free world would win the coming Cold War. No Soviet military planner could ever seriously doubt the U.S. would use nuclear weapons. The American policy of nuclear deterrence allowed US military expenditures to consume far less of the American GNP than Soviet military expenditures did of the Soviet Union’s GNP, eventually resulting in the Soviet Union’s economic collapse.
@91 nice try excluding the critical phrase “not cities” from my quote. The point is Marshall argued against what the US ultimately did. And I believe the rest of the Joint Chiefs at the time denounced it after the fact.
And “US-led free world” are you 12 years old?
@92: Ok, go ahead, identify military and industrial targets in 1945 Japan which were so far isolated from cities, a nuclear weapon could have been used to destroy the target and nothing else. We’ll wait.
Absent that, Truman took Marshall’s advice, as best he could adapt it to actual reality.
An author should write to the level his audience understands. In your case, that’s not really possible, but I did try. Are you still complaining Truman considered the long-term big picture when he made his decisions?
@93: General Marshall is the only high-level official, military or civilian, for whom we have a contemporaneous record of doubt about using atomic weapons against cities (although a handful of officials such as Secretary of State Stimson were concerned about area-bombing of cities in general). But, predictably, thirteentwelve has overstated a weak case.
First, Marshall was strongly in favor of atomic weapons in general, both before and after the war. In particular, after the war, he specifically defended the atomic bombing of Japanese cities as militarily necessary and ethically correct.
Second, Marshall was always explicit that the use of atomic weapons is a political decision, not a military decision. Thirteentwelve’s question of whether “Truman was a more brilliant military strategist than Marshall” is irrelevant. Marshall was always clear that military strategy is not the correct framework for deciding whether to use the A-bomb. There is no debate between the president and the military when it comes to the use of atomic weapons.
Third, Marshall did not “argue against what the US ultimately did.” Instead, he suggested that the US might consider atomic-bombing a naval base first, and then if that was not successful, switching to the atomic bombing of manufacturing centers. Marshall was explicit that “manufacturing centers” means cities. He recommended the Japanese be warned to evacuate a list of cities, and then the US would promptly hit one or more of the cities on that list, regardless of whether an evacuation had actually occurred. Marshall’s recommendation was not adopted, but that is not the same as saying he opposed the decision the US adopted. There is a wide gulf between making a recommendation for a course of action not taken versus opposing the course of action that was actually taken instead. There is no record of Marshall opposing the course the US took in lieu of his recommendation.
Here are the verbatim minutes from the single meeting with Assistant Secretary of War John McCloy in which Marshall raised his suggestion:
“General Marshall said he thought these weapons might first be used against straight military objectives such as a large naval installation and then if no complete result was derived from the effect of that, he thought we ought to designate a number of large manufacturing areas from which the people would be warned to leave—telling the Japanese that we intended to destroy such centers. There would be no individual designations so that the Japs would not know exactly where we were to hit—a number should be named and the hit should follow shortly after. Every effort should be made to keep our record of warning clear. We must offset by such warning methods the opprobrium which might follow from an ill considered employment of such force.”
(Immediately after making this recommendation to the assistant secretary regarding the use of atomic weapons, Marshall went on to recommend the use of mustard gas against military targets on the outer islands of Japan. This second recommendation of Marshall’s, like the first, was not adopted.)
Lefties love the idea of senior US officials wracked by guilt and doubt over the decision to nuke the Japanese. The reality is, everyone involved was pretty happy with their decision. 😃
“The reality is,
everyone involved was
pretty happy with their decision. 😃”
only a socipath could slap on
a smiley face whilst joyfully heralding
our delivery of an Atomic Bomb. or two.
not
that it
bothers them. like
sociopaths, ai cannot Be bothered
@94 “The reality is, everyone involved was pretty happy with their decision. 😃”
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/atomic-bombings-ian-w-toll
“In 1945, eight Americans (four generals, four admirals) held five-star rank. Seven later stated that the bombings were either unnecessary to end the war, morally indefensible, or both.”
General Douglas MacArthur confided his thoughts to his personal pilot, who recorded in his diary on August 7: “General MacArthur definitely is appalled and depressed by this Frankenstein monster.”
Among the Navy brass, feelings ran strong against the bombings. Admiral Ernest King, the chief of naval operations, told his co-author that he did not like the atomic bomb “or any part of it,”
Several leading air commanders, including Generals Hap Arnold and Curtis LeMay, said that the atomic bombs were unnecessary because conventional bombing had already brought Japan to its knees.
Admiral Bill Leahy, the senior most active-duty US officer of the Second World War, left a scathing passage in his memoir, charging that the United States had “adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying woman and children.”
During the war, Admiral William “Bull” Halsey was famous for his bloody-minded tirades against the Japanese. He had publicly said that Japan was “not fit to live in a civilized world.” … But in September 1946 the admiral told reporters: “The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. It was a mistake to ever drop it.”
When Dwight D. Eisenhower had learned of the Manhattan Project, several weeks earlier, he had urged against dropping the bomb on Japan: “I disliked seeing the United States take the lead in introducing into war something as horrible and destructive as this new weapon was described to be.”
@96: Please describe the role each person you quoted or mentioned had played in the decision to use atomic bombs. Because otherwise, they were bystanders, and while entitled to their observations, it was not their decision.
Meanwhile, the quotes you provided testify to total opposition to use of atomic weapons, while you’ve described a specific plan to use them as acceptable, so none of those quotes support your broader point.
Finally, LeMay and Eisenhower would become proponents of nuclear deterrence, so we should take their initial oppositions to use of nuclear weapons in that context.
“… the United States had ‘adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying woman and children.”
–Admiral Bill Leahy, the senior most active-
duty US officer of the Second World War
well
they (we) slipped
That little Juicy
Complement
into our vast
Arsenal so
it’s small
Wonder
we’re a-
llowing
bibi to
follow
Suit*
plus:
Remember:
our Fiascos in SE
Asia Iraq & Afghanistan
*wars
Cannot be
won by destroying
WOMEN and CHILDREN
“Finally, LeMay and Eisenhower would become proponents of nuclear deterrence, so we should take their initial oppositions to use of nuclear weapons in that context.”
–yet More utter nonsense
from our Wormtongue
‘Eissy’ and LeMay
pragmatic Warriors
thru & thru could See
the writings on the Walls
and fathom a way forward
the Genie
long-Freed
from its Bottle
Pandora’s Box
having been Opened
the horse long gone
from the fucking
barn — Never-
Mind them
gott damn
Doors.
@95: “only a socipath could slap on
a smiley face…”
We see earning the gold standard for a healthy personality on Slog requires incessant repetition of propaganda which either originates from, and/or directly benefits, a misogynistic, anti-LGBTQ+ jihadi terrorist group, whilst demonizing a US ally (and only democracy) in the region. Got it.
@99: Even folks who learn all of their history from Hollywood should recognize LeMay in General Jack D. Ripper, the villain of Dr. Strangelove. Real-life LeMay’s fixation upon developing ever-heavier and faster bombers, even after the advent of ICBMs, showed just how fixated he remained on nuclear bombing from aircraft.
@100 what?
is this
counter
thingy working?
Israeli Government Approves
Cease-Fire Deal for Gaza
The full Israeli cabinet passed the agreement during a meeting that continued into the Jewish Sabbath, setting up the first reprieve in Gaza in over a year.
The Israeli government approved a cease-fire deal with Hamas early Saturday that calls for the release of dozens of hostages and hundreds of Palestinian prisoners after hours of deliberations, setting up a reprieve in the 15-month, devastating war in the Gaza Strip.
The Israeli prime minister’s office, which announced the agreement after the full cabinet voted, said the deal would go into effect on Sunday.
Palestinians have celebrated the provisional cease-fire with the hope that it will finally end the conflict and Israelis are anxiously awaiting the return of scores of captives abducted by Hamas.
Daniel Lifshitz, whose grandfather Oded, 84, was among the 250 captives taken in the Hamas-led attack on Israel on Oct. 7, 2023, said, “The stomach is turning, and the heart is poured out on the floor, but it’s what we’ve been waiting for.”
The initial attack killed about 1,200 people, setting off a wave of bombardments by Israel that has killed over 46,000 Palestinians, according to Gazan health officials, who do not distinguish between combatants and civilians.
The vote on Saturday was the second and final one required to approve the cease-fire and hostage release agreement. Hours earlier on Friday, the security cabinet voted to approve it, overcoming a key hurdle to enacting a deal that U.S. and other diplomats see as the best chance to end the war. Hamas had said that there were no longer any barriers to the agreement.
President Isaac Herzog of Israel, who holds a largely ceremonial role, had hailed the security cabinet’s vote, although he acknowledged the difficulties ahead in enacting the agreement. “I harbor no illusions — the deal will bring with it great challenges and painful, agonizing moments,” he said in a statement.
Under the agreement, both sides would begin a six-week truce, during which Israeli forces would withdraw eastward, away from populated areas. Hamas would free 33 of the hostages still in captivity, mostly women and older people.
–by Aaron Boxerman, Rawan Sheikh Ahmad, Johnatan Reiss, Ephrat Livni and Adam Rasgon
oodles more:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/17/world/middleeast/israel-
let’s see how long it takes
for bibi to sabotage
the Ceasefire
perhaps
he Won’t!
more Power to
him if he puts Peace
over his own Accountability.