Slog AM: Sara Nelson Fires Back, News Outlets Fawn Over CEOs, and Coyotes Are Everywhere

1. @45 what’s the difference between you obsessing over Sawant and Trump fixating on Crooked Hillary or his other perceived enemies? If we’re gonna play this dumb game.

   It’s hilarious the same people who constantly claim Dem candidates need to move to the right and ignore left issues also want to claim the left is actually closer to the right. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch ain’t it

2. @47: lol easy, you’ve failed the 3D test more times than anyone else here. Even more than Kristofarian has…and he’s a guy who was literally ranting about “the Jewish Lobby” just up-thread! 😂🤣😂🤣

3. @🛴:

   🚑🏛🧻🧻🚽,🧻🧻🌂☂!🎃👗?🩳+👚

   🎱–🤿🥏. 🎥🎬🏧!📌⌛🗑. lol! lol! rofl/lolol!

4. @🛴:

   🚑🏛🧻🧻🚽,🧻🧻🌂☂!🎃👗?🩳+👚

   🎱–🤿🥏. 🎥🎬🏧!📌⌛🗑. lol! lol! rofl/lolol!

5. Trumpus : …denial of Jewish nationhood…
   
   Isnt that literally anti-zionism? And looking at the current state of expansionist zionism, its a reasonable opinion.

6. @53: Anti-Zionism is, indeed, the denial of Jewish nationhood. I’m surprised to hear it stated so bluntly. Most anti-zionists at least try to dress it up a little. Points for your honesty, I guess! 😜

7. @22 and @23 xina: +2 Yes. We were warned. All the poor working class MAGA turds gleefully celebrating their false claim of “owning the dems” right now will lose all their safety net benefits ( i.e.: Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc.) along with the majority of us to the Orange Turd and its fascist army of billionaires on or soon after January 20, 2025. And when these pro-Turdist idiots go, “Wait—–WHAAAAAAAT?!?!?” I’ll be among the first to say I voted for Kamala Harris and Tim Walz. Why didn’t they?

   @24 Hayduke_Forever: +1 Agreed and seconded. Kristofarian is indeed a commentary gem.

   @27 kristofarian: +1 Hear, hear!

   @35 Lissa: That must have been one helluva party.

8. @53 Anti-zionism is opposition to the colonization of Palestine, a land already occupied by Palestinians for millennia. If Zionists can manage to obtain land with the consent of those who occupy it I personally wouldn’t oppose it even though I am not a big fan of ethno-states

9. @30 as shown by your failure to come up with any evidence to support your gratuitous accusations you have nothing but smears. Typical far right tactics btw.

10. @57 is for @50

11. @56: The identity “Palestinian,” short for “Palestinian Arab,” dates to the 20th Century, maaaaaaaaybe all the way back to the late 19th Century*. Your blatant re-writing of literally thousands of years of local history — including , of course, simply erasing multiple long periods of external imperial rule, complete with the external imperial rulers who enforced anti-Jewish policies on said land — shows even you know any argument which appeals to Palestinians being a long-time indigenous people will fail.

    *When it was created/encouraged by the Ottoman Empire, as a way of retaining their external imperial control over the land.

12. @56/57: ha ha ha, even in your post denying your own anti-semitism, you manage to fail the 3D test yet again! Nice one, Bob! 😂😂😂

13. @59 Palestinians mostly descend from people who lived in Palestine during the Bronze age. Whether a Palestinian state existed is irrelevant.

    @60 Gobbledygook

14. @59 meanwhile your argument is that certain Europeans have better claim to the land because a fairytale book says their ancestors used to live there thousands of years ago. You are in the glassiest of glass houses on this topic.

15. @62: lol, Jews have lived in Israel continuously for 3,000 years. Countless empires have come and gone but the Jews have always remained. The myth of Jewish disappearance from Israel is one of AverageBob’s favorite arguments, but it’s not an argument grounded in history, it’s an argument grounded in erasure of Jews, which is to say, anti-semitism..

    I’m totally unsurprised to see you buy into the anti-semitic “Jews left 3,000 years ago” argument, because aren’t you the guy who once described Hamas’s videotaped beheading of a wounded hostage as an act of Palestinian self-defense? lol!

16. @61: “Palestinians mostly descend from people who lived in Palestine during the Bronze age”

    Uh, yeah, those were the Jews! 🤣

17. @63 Most Israeli Jews are immigrants who have lived in Palestine since the 20th century. Only 8% of Palestinians were Jews in 1900 before colonization started. Palestinians have CONTINUOUSLY occupied the land, not Israelis issued from immigration. Stop lying.

    @64 Even if true, so what? They aren’t Jews anymore. Get over it. This is where you expose your intolerance

18. @65: “Most Israeli Jews are immigrants who have lived in Palestine since the 20th century.”

    Actually, most Israeli Jews are not immigrants. Most Israeli Jews were born in Israel. You’re maybe confusing 2024 with some other year in the past? lol!

    But even if true, so what? All Jews, regardless of their place of birth, are the indigenous people of Israel. As a nation, the Jews didn’t give up their claim to Israel for a single day, regardless of whichever empire-du-jour had temporarily seized control at any particular point in Israel’s history. It is irrelevant whether any particular Jew or set of Jews was born in Israel or in some other country.

    Your immigration argument might have merit if the Jewish nation had ever abandoned Israel. It didn’t, and so your argument doesn’t. Your colonialism argument might have merit if Jews or some foreign power had arbitrarily selected Israel as a random place to establish a Jewish state. They didn’t, and so your argument doesn’t. I can see why you cling so tenaciously to the idea of Jews as disconnected individuals rather than Jews as a nation—it’s central to your case against Israel. Unfortunately, you’re wrong, lol!

    As for Palestine, they too are a nation indigenous to the land of Israel. The Palestinians are a new nation, a young nation, but nevertheless still a nation. Palestinian nationhood is not grounded in their ancient genetics—you’d have to be some kind of racist progressive to believe something so gross, ha ha! Rather, Palestinian nationhood is grounded in their 20th-century self-conception as a people distinct from other Arabs, distinct from other Levantines. Unlike the Jews, whose national consciousness has an unbroken 3,000-year history, the Palestinian national consciousness has only a 100-year history. But even though Palestinians are a much younger nation than the Jews, they’re no less worthy of sovereignty and self-governance, and so I support a Palestinian state alongside the Jewish one.

    Of course, the Palestinians will have to give up their longstanding and horrendously self-defeating project of trying to wipe Israel off the face of the map! The ongoing destruction of Hamas is a valuable step in that worthy direction. Palestinians themselves should have destroyed Hamas long ago, as an impediment to their national aspirations! 😘

19. @55

    Thank you
    
    auntie Gee!

    IWe Appreciate
    
    you, too!

    also

    arguing with a sociopathic
    
    sockbotic Machine is de-
    
    signed to Distract and’s
    
    like pigwrasslin’ in a
    
    Mudpit: the pig’s
    
    puppeteer Loves
    
    it and Frees his
    
    hands for lots
    
    more Mis-
    
    chiefs

    tho it’s Not like
    
    there’s aLotta
    
    Choice in the
    
    matter.

    Gracias.

20. @66 no, the fairy tale book is very clear that the Israelites left the area for Egypt, where they were enslaved, then came back and overthrew the Canaanites to take control of the region. The Canaanites being the distant ancestors of the Lebanese and Palestinians. So Jews have been stealing that land and demonizing its rightful occupants for thousands of years, according to their own mythology.

21. @68: no one other than you is grounding any argument in the bible. But I’m sure you’re winning the imaginary bible debate you are having over there, ha ha!

22. @59: My argument goes back no further than UN Resolution 181, passed by the UN General Assembly in 1947. (https://www.britannica.com/topic/United-Nations-Resolution-181)

    You continue to reside in the most abysmally ignorant of places on this topic.

23. @69 in that case pray tell what resource you are relying on for your claim that Jews have lived continuously in the region for 3000 years

24. @71: Ha ha ha, wow dude! As you might imagine, a history that is 3,000 years long is attested by hundreds of thousands of sources, both archeological and historical. You can start with Wikipedia if you’re new to Middle Eastern studies, lol!

25. @72 ok so you don’t have an answer, cool, thought so

26. @73: Really, Wikipedia is too obscure for you? 😅

    ooook, I don’t know how much more basic you need, but maybe try google? Type history of jews in israel, then click literally any link that comes up?

    I mean, there are plenty of books I could recommend, but honestly if wikipedia and google are kicking your ass, I’m not sure how much good a book recommendation is going to do 🤪

27. @74 it’s not that Wikipedia is too obscure, I just thought you might want to try a different source to support your claim that “no one is grounding any argument in the bible” since Wikipedia says:

    “The traditional religious view of Jews and Judaism of their own history was based on the narrative of the ancient Hebrew Bible.”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_history

28. @75: ok then, keep arguing with nobody about the bible! nothing you discover in the bible will alter the historical fact of 3,000 years continuous Jewish occupation in Israel, lol!

29. @75: You claimed (@62) I had based my argument on the Bible. I’ve never done any such thing. Your claim that anyone here based an argument on the Bible, even implicitly, is yours to prove.

    Proof of lasting Jewish residence in that part of the world comes from many sources. I would suggest you start with Flavius Josephus’ “Jewish War,” written during Roman rule of the area. (That was a couple of millennia ago.)

30. @4, you’ve hit the nail on the head with this post. TS has discovered that when employees unionize and get salary increases managment looks for ways to downsize and save money. Rich was an easy target (only straight(?) white guy left), but the rest are sure to follow. Nothing but “guest” articles that don’t actually cost anything and a bunch of ads for overpriced alcohol, drugs, and food. Was fun while it lasted, RIP TS.

31. This Randy Engstrom?

    With a Lack of Black Men in Authority Positions at Seattle’s Office of Arts & Culture, is Pakistani Heritage “Close Enough”? | by Alliesequity | Medium

    Under Engstrom’s leadership… “there did not appear to be a single African American male in a position holding manager-level authority…. Since Engstrom took the Director position 10-years ago, he has grown the the office from a staff of 8 to a staff of 32. Yet as we mentioned, with zero African American male managers.”

32. @77 averagebob sorted you out at 61. The distant ancestors of the Palestinians were in the region before Judaism even existed. Zionists themselves base their claim to the land in their holy book. It’s only you two nerds desperately flailing to make a legitimate historical argument in favor.

33. @80: “Zionists themselves base their claim to the land in their holy book”

    …and archaeology…and history…and the reality of 3,000 years of continuous national presence, which no other nation can claim, certainly not the 20th century nation known as Palestinians.. 😁Meanwhile, the anti-zionist claim is based on ignore, lies, and racism, ha ha ha!

34. @65: “Only 8% of Palestinians were Jews in 1900…”

    How often must we go over this? Once AGAIN — and please do try to pay attention this time! — that figure came after literal decades of the Ottoman Empire, the foreign imperial rulers of Palestine, nonconsensually imposing anti-Jewish discrimination upon the voiceless local population. The Ottoman Empire imposed these foreign imperial diktats upon the locals not out of any sense of fairness to Palestinian Arabs, but to maintain their own foreign imperial control over a conquered land. The Ottoman Empire restricted Jews from owning land, from buying land, and eventually even from making extended pilgrimages to Jerusalem. And the Ottomans were not the first foreign Empire to push baldly anti-Jewish discrimination upon the locals there; the Roman Empire had done so as well. Your argument simply accepts the ‘right’ of foreign empires to dictate anti-Jewish policies there.

    Well, guess what? Your love of imperialism, no matter how deep or sincere, doesn’t count for much these days. The rest of us need not accept that the discriminatory, anti-Jewish policies of long-dead empires should now dictate political decisions to us. Please do try to take note of that this time, hm?

35. @80: “Zionists themselves base their claim to the land in their holy book.”

    I’m not a Zionist, and as I’ve already explained, base ‘my’ claim upon UN Resolution 181.

    “…averagebob sorted you out at 61.”

    If by “sorted … out,” you mean, “made completely unsupported claims about a long stretch of history in that part of the world,” then ok I guess. Please note that “ancestors of X” are, by definition, not “X,” and “distant ancestors” can precede X by many generations, so I’m not sure what, exactly, the statement @61 accomplishes. Most Americans have never even been to most of the places our “distant ancestors” lived, or ever even try to make any claim to those lands.

    Anyway, there’s a guy in this thread who seems adamant about demanding rigorous proof for any claims about ethnic history in that very same part of the world, so it’ll be fun to watch when he shows up, and tears averagebob a new one for making such a sweeping, unsupported statement. (Have you any idea when that guy will return here?)

36. @80

    “It’s only
    
    you two nerds
    
    desperately flailing to make
    
    a legitimate historical argument in favor.”

    I disagree:
    
    one Far right maybe-
    
    nerd & his ai sidekicksockbott

    but
    
    yeah on
    
    all the flailing:

    when it’s Genocide
    
    ya gottta Work
    
    a little Over-
    
    time.

37. just a few facts ….

    The First Aliyah also known as the agriculture Aliyah, was a major wave of Jewish immigration (aliyah) to Ottoman Palestine between 1881 and 1903.[1][2] Jews who migrated in this wave came mostly from Eastern Europe and from Yemen, stimulated by pogroms and violence against the Jewish communities in those areas.[3][4][5] An estimated 25,000[6] Jews immigrated. Many of the European Jewish immigrants during the late 19th-early 20th century period gave up after a few months and went back to their country of origin, often suffering from hunger and disease.[7]

    [..]

    At the beginning of the period, the Jewish population in Ottoman Palestine was around 26,000. Over the course of the First Aliyah, many immigrants arrived from different countries in Europe, Africa, and Asia. By the end of this period, the Jewish population in Ottoman Palestine had grown to approximately 55,000.

    The use of the term “First Aliyah” is controversial because there had been a previous wave of immigration to Ottoman Syria starting in the mid-19th century (between 1840 and 1880, the Jewish population in Ottoman Syria rose from 9,000 to 23,000).[8][9]

    [..]

    The Ottoman authorities recognized the Jewish immigration wave to the land as early as November 1882. They understood from the beginning of the 1880s that it was part of a larger Jewish national plan. Consequently, they took steps to limit the entry options for Jews into the country. Restrictions were imposed, despite the Sultan’s permit for Jewish settlement given during a meeting with two Jewish representatives from Romania in May 1882. The scope of the immigration diminished due to these restrictions and the difficulties faced by the immigrants.[19]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Aliyah

38. @83: Again, “[y]our argument simply accepts the ‘right’ of foreign empires to dictate anti-Jewish policies there.” You’re implicitly making a pro-imperialist argument.

39. @85: lol, you keep barking up the immigration tree but there is nothing up there for you 😄

40. @83 so in your opinion UN Resolution 181 is controlling on this issue. Do you feel the same about UN Resolution A/ES-10/L.31/Rev.1?

41. @84 — see:
    
    @86 & @87
    
    ad Nauseam.

42. @88: UN Resolution 181 established the legal basis for an Arab State and a Jewish State in Palestine. Six Arab countries, and the Palestinian Arab population, promptly rejected it by force. When you choose war, you choose to accept the consequences of war, and one consequence of that war is the lack of an Arab State in what was once called Palestine. There may someday be an Arab State in Palestine, but it likely will not be as large as the one envisioned in 181.

    My personal opinion on the advisory opinion you referenced? Sounds like a good idea, but how would the UN ensure security for Israel during any withdrawal of forces? Oct. 7, 2023 wasn’t that long ago — and the experience of UN Resolution 181 doesn’t exactly inspire confidence, either.

43. @86 The facts show that the proportion of Jews in Palestine was already quite small before the Ottomans curtailed it for 20 odd years starting in 1882. So, saying that Palestinina Jews were a small minority before immigration started is in fact accurate and stating that Muslims were an overwhelming majority of the population before Zionists made it their goals to colonize Palestine is also fact. In other words, your objections are worthless and stating facts isn’t an endorsement of anything despite your twisted logic to the contrary.

44. @91: But “Jews were a minority” is such a dumb argument against the legitimacy of Israel. It’s baffling to me that you keep beating your head against a dead end. Maybe it’s that all the arguments against Israel are dumb, so you might as well just keep using this one I guess, lol!

45. @92 only a moron like you would try to argue that the land doesn’t belong to the population that occupied it continuously for generations (in fact since the Bronze age) until it was taken by force by 20th century colonizers

46. @90 so are you upset the US voted against the recent resolution? And if Israel refuses to stop building settlements in and restricting rights of residents of the Occupied Territories are they not “choosing war” and obligated to “accept the consequences?”

47. @92 if immigrants illegally flooded the Puget Sound area and started attacking local institutions, and the UN said ok the immigrants get Everett to North Seattle and the locals can keep South Seattle to Tacoma, should we accept that? Would the North Sound immigrant state be “legitimate?”

48. @93: The problem with the “Jews were a minority” argument is that for 3,000 continuous years, Israel never stopped being the homeland of the Jews. The Jewish population in Israel ebbed and flowed during that name, but the continuous Jewish occupation, continuous Jewish self-governance, continuous Jewish claim—none of it ever stopped, not for an instant, regardless of whichever foreign empire happened to be in charge on any given day. If the land belongs to those who occupied it “since the Bronze Age,” as you put it, then the land of Israel indisputably belongs to the Jewish nation. Latecomer nations such as Palestinians may or may not have claims of their own, but to erase the Jewish claim is historically ignorant. 😉

    You persist in thinking of Jews not as a nation indigenous to Israel but rather as some kind of collection of randos from Europe who have weird religious beliefs. That’s not who Jews are, lol! Your misconception of Jews is grounded in your anti-semitism, simple as that.

49. @95: Weird analogy but ok dude…🤣

50. @96 “the continuous Jewish occupation, continuous Jewish self-governance, continuous Jewish claim—none of it ever stopped, not for an instant”

    The problem is this is not at all accurate, speaking of “historically ignorant”

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