RIP Mariners’ hopes and dreams: If you’re a Mariners fan, this news is unsurprising to you. The team failed to make it to the playoffs, once again missing the postseason despite a season filled with promise. Hope is so dangerous, especially to a Mariners fan. This is the 22nd time the team has missed the playoffs in 23 years. There’s always next year, right?
Mystery alert: Tacoma Police Chief Avery Moore was placed on paid administrative leave, but neither the City nor the police department will say why. Moore, who is the department’s second-ever Black chief, has been the head of the agency since taking over the mostly white department in 2022 in the wake of the police killing of Manuel Ellis.
Coked-out coroner: Yakima County Coroner Jim Curtice allegedly falsely claimed someone had poisoned his energy drinks, workout powder, and electric tea kettle with cocaine and fentanyl. In fact, no one had poisoned Curtice, it appears he’d simply been doing cocaine and fentanyl in the morgue and wanted to cover his tracks with the poisoning story. Unfortunately, the jig was up after he failed a polygraph test, which prompted a confession. For months, he told police, he’d been snorting drugs he found on dead bodies. His wife, who is the president of the Greater Yakima Chamber of Commerce, said this incident is a result of Curtice’s PTSD.
Oh, no: Actress Maggie Smith, known for her roles in Downtown Abbey and in the Harry Potter series, is dead at age 89. She was a two-time Oscar winner. She also has the perfect response to the story above about the coroner:
Seems bad: The National Transportation Safety Board warned that over 350 Boeing 737s could have faulty rudder control components.
Meanwhile: The Machinists union will be back at the negotiating table Friday with Boeing. Earlier this week, the union rejected a new offer from the company, as it “didn’t meet the needs of our members,” according to a union survey. While Boeing has said this latest offer is “the largest offer we’ve ever offered this union or any other union,” the union members are holding out for “a restored pension and a 40% general wage increase,” the Seattle Times reports.
The weather: Friday will be partly cloudy and in the mid-60s. Saturday threatens to be cloudier and cooler. Sunday should see a similar share of clouds and sun. Briskness is back. Rain, however, won’t return until next Friday, supposedly.
Much more stressful weather in Florida: The powerful Category 4 Hurricane Helene bore down on Florida’s mostly rural Big Bend region. The storm caused damage, knocked out power for millions, and killed at least five people. Soon after it crossed land, Helene weakened to a tropical storm. Neighborhoods from South Florida to Asheville, North Carolina are flooded.
#hurricanehelene in Cedar Key, #Florida. @jpetramala pic.twitter.com/OuRtsUFvhB
— WxChasing- Brandon Clement (@bclemms) September 27, 2024
Tampa is completely underwater. Here’s Tampa General Hospital holding back the floodwaters from Hurricane Helene with an aquafence Wild.#Florida #Helene #HurricaneHelene #Hurricane #storm #TropicalCyclone #climate pic.twitter.com/Clm0aNdHsH
— Vipin lamba (@vipinyadav302) September 27, 2024
COVID is still a thing: Why don’t you stock up on free tests from the government?
Israel kills over 700 in one week of Lebanon strikes: In spite of the US, France, and other allies calling for a 21-day ceasefire—one that Lebanon welcomes—Israel’s escalation of strikes against Hezbollah “won’t stop” until it pushes Hezbollah away from the border, which is allegedly the country’s main goal with this operation.
Eric Adams goes to court: Fresh from being accused of accepting more than $100,000 in illegal gifts from Turkey in exchange for helping the country with his political status, New York City Mayor Eric Adams went to court for his arraignment. Adams is charged with bribery, fraud, and soliciting illegal foreign campaign donations. He does not plan to step down from office and, despite piles of evidence detailed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the unsealed indictment, Adams will plead not guilty. “I ask New Yorkers to wait to hear our defense,” Adams said.
So long, China Harbor: The big-ass restaurant on Lake Union is slated for closure at the end of September due to rising labor costs, inflation, and costs of building repairs. I’d never been to China Harbor, but I always wondered what it looked like inside. With only a few opportunities left to visit, I went last night. It was beautiful chaos. A line snaked through the building’s lobby and out the door. Groups of fewer than four people—reservation-holders and walk-ins alike—waited in the same line. The restaurant sat big groups quickly and honored big group reservations. Three pairs of middle-aged couples attempted to cut the small-group line because of their 7 pm reservation. The hostess said their reservations didn’t matter and they had to wait at the back of the line. They hated hearing about this anarchy. After fuming for a few minutes, the six strangers opted to become one reservation. The hostess sat them at a big table immediately. My friends and I kept tabs on them throughout the night. We hoped they became friends. If you’re going to bid China Harbor adieu this weekend, make sure to get there early. Or, bring a big group. Also, they were all out of dim sum last night.
You should have serious fomo if you’re not at China Harbor rn, whole city is here pic.twitter.com/OeUTwCq0HG
— nathalie graham (@gramsofgnats) September 27, 2024
Ugh, the poor library: The pain of the ransomware attack suffered by the Seattle Public Library isn’t over yet. To respond to the attack and investigate what data the attackers stole, SPL anticipates it will need to spend $1 million. The money will come from the library’s already thin budget, which forced rolling closures earlier this year to save costs. According to the Seattle Times, $800,000 will go toward paying consultants and $200,000 will go toward extra information technology costs.
A song for your Friday: This was stuck in my head when I woke up at 4 am and couldn’t go back to sleep.
“Israel kills over 700 in one week of Lebanon strikes”
Islamic militants sowing: “Ha ha fuck yeah!! Death to the Jews!!!”
Islamic militants reaping: “Well this fucking sucks. Ceasefire now!”
It’s unaffiliated civilians mostly, who did no sowing, that are dying…
Your equation is perverse at best thumpos.
Digging Peter Falk’s hesitant cigarette moves in the Maggie Smith clip.
“The National Transportation Safety Board warned that over 350 Boeing 737s could have faulty rudder control components.”
And no one at Boeing caught it?
None of the techs in quality?
None of the machinists in assembly?
Fuck those folks and their demand for a 40% pay increase.
If the Mariners ever want to win, they need to do something about the marine air in Seattle. Good luck!
@1: Amazing, how Hezbollah could start firing rockets into Israel on the day after 10/7, and keep firing them, daily, for month after month after month, driving civilians in the north of Israel from their homes — and the Stranger, which spent many of those days demanding a ceasefire in Gaza, never once said anything about a ceasefire in the north of Israel. Less than a week after Israel started doing what any other country would have done far sooner, the Stranger just can’t stop demanding a ceasefire there.
Now why won’t the Stranger’s meanie commenters just recognize the Stranger sincerely wants peace?!?
Willkommen to
eltrumpfster’s
nutnyahoo’s
& MUX’s
brave new
World, suckers
where you’re either
a Profiteer or On the Menu.
now
who wants
some Lunch?
@2: War sucks. Don’t vote Hamas.
“This is the 22nd time the team has missed the playoffs in 23 years.”
In 2019, the M’s signed a 25-year lease on T-Mobile Park. What’s the line on it expiring without that stadium ever having hosted a World Series game?
P.S. In 1995, I was part of the majority who voted “No.”
@7 Apartheid and genocide suck. Don’t vote for extremists, and quit dancing victory laps on the graves of innocents, it makes you look like a bloodthirsty maniac. (probably a little late about that last bit)
On your recommendation, I listened to the “Over the Garden Wall” soundtrack. How lovely. I’ve recommended it to everyone I know.
@9: “Apartheid and genocide suck.” So true, averagebob, so true. Luckily they aren’t happening in Lebanon, Gaza, or the West Bank.
But don’t take my word for it. Refer to the International Court of Justice advisory opinion of 19 July, in which “apartheid” was the dissenting, minority opinion of the Court, not the majority opinion.
@11 I’m so glad you informed us. I realize now the situation in Palestine & Lebanon doesn’t suck. I feel better about thousands of innocent people being singled out for slaughter by a colonialist regime now that I know it doesn’t meet a highly specific, politically biased “definition” of genocide or apartheid. It’s just the victims’ own fault – I can breathe easy now.
You know things are going great when only minority of the international court of justice believes human rights abuses are happening.
@12: Except there is no “colonialist regime.” Israel’s not a colony, and Jews aren’t colonists. They are indigenous to the land. The Arabs are just going to have to learn to live with that. Luckily, the majority have. As for the rest, well, that’s why Israel has an army.
@14
that’s why we
send them
Billions:
so Israel
can have
the Socialism
We are Denied here
in the Richest fucking
Country in the HISTORY
of the Known World. Enjoy
your Slaughter,
Thumper — even
You are Paying For it
you just don’t
Know it.
@13: Israel’s critics have mounted a strong charge in the courtroom and a strong charge on the battlefield. Preliminary results in both fora look damaging but manageable for Israel, but of course, time will tell.
@11 False and I certainly wouldn’t take your word for anything considering your rhetoric over the last couple of weeks.
The court said that Israel was in violation of the article on racial discrimination and apartheid
Specifically:
“229. The Court observes that Israel’s legislation and measures impose and serve to maintain a
near-complete separation in the West Bank and East Jerusalem between the settler and Palestinian
communities. For this reason, the Court considers that Israel’s legislation and measures constitute a
breach of Article 3 of CERD.”
Article 3 of CERD
States Parties particularly condemn racial segregation and apartheid and undertake to prevent, prohibit and eradicate all practices of this nature in territories under their jurisdiction.
https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20240719-adv-01-00-en.pdf
@14 “Israel’s not a colony, and Jews aren’t colonists. They are indigenous to the land.”
You are either incredibly ignorant or a liar because almost all Jews in Palestine are descendants of immigrants or are immigrants themselves. There were ~8% Palestinian Jews in the late 1800 before massive immigration began, 17% Jews in the 1930, ~35% Jews in 1947 at time of partition. Most Jews immigrated after WW2.
@16: Nope, you’ve misread paragraph 229. No finding of apartheid. Read the minority opinions, especially the Lebanese guy. They’re pissed they couldn’t get to apartheid.
@17: lol, you don’t understand the first thing about indigeneity. It’s not where you’re born that matters.
Israel the homeland of all the Jews. It never stopped being their homeland, regardless of whichever foreign empire happened to be in charge at any particular moment in history.
@3, if you’ll print the KOMO piece that Nathalie linked to and have someone read it to you, you may discover that the faulty component originated at the Rockwell Collins factory (sub-standard sealing), and isn’t something that would be spotted on the line.
@12: thousands of people, innocent or not, cannot be ‘singled out’ for anything, because that’s the opposite of what ‘singled out’ means.
Here’s how to use that colloquialism in a sentence: “Why have you singled out Israel, one nation among many whose origins begin in bloody conflict, as the one example so egregious that its only acceptable course of action, according to you, is to unconditionally surrender and agree to its own conquest at the hands of those who have vowed to destroy them?”
That’s how to use “singled out” in a sentence.
@18 I didn’t misread anything. Some judges were rightfully upset the court didn’t explicitly name apartheid in its ruling but my comment @16 cite the court’s ruling condemning Israel of violating Article 3 of CERD, which is the ban on racial segregation and apartheid. Typical obfuscation from the guilty party.
@19 HA! The Zionist zealot is finally showing his stripes. Please do tell us when you plan on recreating the world the way it was 3000 years ago.
@17, JFC bob, we’ve been over this already, multiple times. How many times do you need to receive your same F minus in history?
“There were ~8% Palestinian Jews in the late 1800 before massive immigration began,”
Because, “in the late 1800s,” the Ottoman Empire, Imperial occupying ruler of all Palestine, prevented Jews from buying land in Palestine, from moving to Palestine, and eventually even from visiting Palestine. You’re approvingly reciting the results of Imperialist oppression of a native people. Congratulations, it’s good to know where you stand on the whole ’empires and indigenous peoples’ issue. (Looking forward to your Columbus Day celebrations, I’m sure the rest of the “Israel is a settler-colonist state” will greatly appreciate your take on that.)
“Most Jews immigrated after WW2.”
Specifically, after they were expelled from the surrounding Arab countries, where many of their families had been living for generations. You’re really not showing anyone your love of human rights here.
@21 “unconditionally surrender and agree to its own conquest”
they could start by giving up colonial expansion and see how far it takes them.
@23 we have indeed gone over this several times, which makes one wonder why you bother with your non-sensical verbiage, again. You must be trying to bore the readership away.
Repeat after me: 2 wrongs don’t make a right. The Ottomans banning Jews from emigrating will never justify stealing the land of Palestinians. Neither does the holocaust, nor Jews being conquered 1000’s of years ago. Got it?
I am sure you’ll manage, as per usual, to come up with more nonsense (“Hamas made us do it”, “It’s the victims fault”, and many more nuggets for which you have a special ability)so don’t be surprised by my ignoring it
@20- that doesn’t fit with the approved narrative here. Boeing is bad in all respects. Don’t forget it. Waiting for someone to tell us how a faulty component shows that Boeing wants to kill more Palestinians.
Also, has it not occurred to all of you that failing to make the playoffs is clearly part of the Mariners’ business model?
@22: “HA! The Zionist zealot is finally showing his stripes. Please do tell us when you plan on recreating the world the way it was 3000 years ago.”
Oh dear, what a mess. You’re as bad at reading history as you are at reading judicial opinions. No one is trying to recreate the world of 3,000 years ago. There is no need, because Jews have been present in their homeland continuously for every single day of those 3,000 years. The Jews never left. Empire after empire, expulsion after expulsion, they never left. Israel always was, and still remains, their indigenous land.
You are not the first observer to stub his toe over the inconvenient existence of the Jews. There is even a name for people like you: anti-semite.
I’m not saying you’re, like, an Einsatzgruppe member or anything like that. But you are an anti-semite, and you need to own that.
@2, “It’s unaffiliated civilians mostly, who did no sowing, that are dying…”
That is the nature of every war ever fought. Soldiers are a tiny percentage of the carnage.
The absence of war, counterintuitively, leads to even more civilian carnage as totalitarians go unchallenged and have a free hand over the areas they control.
@27 Here we go. You have no arguments left but the conveniently unjustified slur of “antisemite” for pointing out that your logic pertains to Zionist zealotry. There were 8% Jews in Palestine at the turn of the 19th century so there were probably always Jews in Palestine but they were a smallish minority of the population before colonization and no appeal to Bronze age history is going to change that. I won’t bother discussing the racism involved in discounting the rights of the population occupying that land for centuries but rest assured that you are the racist among us.
@22: “…my comment @16 cite the court’s ruling condemning Israel of violating Article 3 of CERD, which is the ban on racial segregation and apartheid.”
Yes, Article 3 of CERD bans BOTH racial segregation and apartheid. The court found Israel practices racial segregation. The court did not find Israel practices apartheid.
@25: Your argument against Jews having a right to that land now, depends entirely upon the Ottoman Empire having explicitly and purposefully denied the Jews opportunity to own land back then. You freely chose to base your argument upon the population figures there at a specific point in time. The sole reason for those population figures there at that specific point in time was a foreign occupying power’s policy of religiously-based discrimination. Therefore, your argument has moral authority no higher than that of an imperial occupying power’s discriminatory policy, practiced against a people who had traditionally lived upon the land that imperial power had later forcibly occupied. Enjoy your Columbus Day celebrations; you’ve certainly earned them.
@16, Maybe Gazans and Lebanese can use the paper that court ruling is written on to catch 2,000 pound bombs, 155mm artillery shells, missiles, and rockets so they don’t detonate.
A court without a police force and/or army to coercively (and violently if necessary) enforce its rulings, is just a glorified newspaper editorial board staffed by legal columnists writing op-ed pieces for the reader to agree or disagree with.
@29: Antisemitism comes in various colors and viscosities, and you’ve got some on you.
@30: “Enjoy your Columbus Day celebrations; you’ve certainly earned them.”
The real tell was his reference to “the Bronze Age.” To the anti-semite, every Jewish claim must be either too old to matter or too new to count. No Jewish claim is ever precisely the correct age to satisfy the anti-semite.
I reminded him that Jewish history in Israel is not a series of snapshots but rather a 3,000-year unbroken continuuum, but of course all that means is that Jewish claims are SIMULTANEOUSLY too old and too new!!! 😄😄😄
You all are missing some key points. Hamas rules Gaza by force. Netanyahu supported Hamas in an effort to defeat a two-state solution. Thus not only did Netanyahu fail to provide adequate security, but was largely responsible for propping up the very organization that killed so many Israelis. So if you want to talk about reaping what you sow, look no farther than Netanyahu.
In any event, this is one reason why Netanyahu is so damn unpopular in Israel. But there is more. You can’t talk about these countries as if they are isolated players. The reason Hamas attacked when they did has everything to do with the alliances that were further isolating them (Egypt, Saudi Arabia, UAR, etc.). They attacked not to gain territory (or some kind of protest) but to actually get Israel to do exactly what it did (overreact). https://geopoliticalfutures.com/understanding-the-israel-hamas-war/. In other words, Hamas is getting exactly what it wanted. Support for Hamas has grown. They are no longer weak and isolated. Hezbollah (whose support amongst Lebanese) was apparently becoming weaker — decided to stick its nose in things. Thus the Iran/Hezbollah/Hamas alliance has grown stronger and (quite likely) more popular.
Of course the people in the area are fucked, but they don’t give a shit. Think Russia after they invaded Ukraine. It was horrible for the average Russian. Putin doesn’t give a fuck. He is still really popular.
Of course Netanyahu is making all the wrong moves. What else is new. He doesn’t give a fuck either. He is either fucking stupid or bloodthirsty (or both).
Of course Israel should exist as a state. Of course it shouldn’t control the occupied territories. But that is quite different than the actions taken by Netanyahu, Hamas or Hezbollah. Nor does it excuse them.
@32 Opposing colonial expansionism is called anti-colonialism and anti-racist given the ideology that justifies colonialism, as shown by your dismissing the rights of the populations that have occupied Palestine for centuries/millennia
Needless to add that your wrongful and deliberate use of “antisemitic” to demonize critics of Israel is a threat to Jews everywhere especially as the far right raises its ugly head. You should be ashamed of yourself, although I am obviously not waiting for that to happen.
@33 wtf is this gibberish? Are you arguing that New York should be returned to native Americans? Of course not because it’s too late for that to happen without causing major harm to people living there currently, like it’s too late to push the Jews into the sea. There are millions of Palestinians refugees today as a result of Israel’s continued expansionism. That can and has to be fixed, now, irrespective of your deluded take about Palestine belonging to Jews.
@24 Most of these points have been raised before and I agree with most of them. Although I think you take the “Hamas cares only about its influence” too far. It’s clear Oct 7 happened to prevent Arab states from normalizing their relation with Israel but I don’t think you can say that preventing the normalization of the current status quo, consisting of apartheid and annexation, wasn’t their first motive even if they likely also believe that it has to go through them and their Islamic ideology.
@37 was meant for @34 of course.
@35: “Opposing colonial expansionism is called anti-colonialism and anti-racist”
Israel’s not a colony. The Jews originated there, and they’ve clung to their homeland in the face of millennia of oppression. The anti-colonial position is to acknowledge their indigeneity and their sovereignty. Your false history, your “Bronze Age” argument, is anti-semitic, not anti-colonial and not anti-racist.
@21: Thank you for pointing that out. Now that the Zionist state appears intent on annexing Lebanon and slaughtering all of the “foreign guest workers” living there (to use Zionist terminology), my use of “singled out” is particularly egregious, wouldn’t you say?
@14 Again, thank you for putting my fears to rest. Those sound like excellent reasons why the Zionist state should have unfettered access to the US public purse, while the citizens here – Jew and non-Jew alike – have their own national infrastructure left to crumble. I don’t know why I complained – what was I thinking?
@39 Nice fairy tale but nobody can be said to have “clung to a homeland” after having been gone for around 2000 years. You have got to be nuts or a zealot (same thing) to believe it and then claim that people who have occupied that land for the time you have been gone somehow have to clear the place that you now claim as your own. Such disrespect for the native population, some of which has a genetic history in the region at least as long as that of Jews, and the denial of its basic rights is in fact racist. Feel free to point out anything that is factually false in what I said instead of making unsupported accusations.
I am genuinely surprised that you actually dare making such an outlandish argument in public and expect to appear rational. I understand this is what they teach in some religious schools but then you should perhaps realize that it has no basis in reality.
@40: Oh, so THAT’S why you’ve singled out Israel as the one country in the world that’s supposed to respond to attacks on its civilian population by immediately laying down arms and agreeing not to be a country anymore — because there’s “Zionists” (wink, wink) living there. Now I understand.
@41: “nobody can be said to have ‘clung to a homeland’ after having been gone for around 2000 years.”
There’s your anti-semitism rearing its head again. The Jews were never gone from Israel. That’s your anti-semitic fantasy, you WISH they were gone, but they weren’t. Very inconvenient, those Jews!
@8
It’s very very Seattle to vote against something (in this case a stadium) and then complain when the team leaves. There was great bitterness after the Pilots left (before the Mariners came) and when the Sonics left.
Paul Allen saved the Seahawks, and wanted to build the Commons. And most voted no, because they didn’t want a park filled with the homeless. Now we have the homeless anyway, and no SLU park.
@43: Somewhere in Seattle tonight, AverageBob is angrily reading the Wikipedia article on the “History of the Jews in Israel” and completely losing his mind.
@41 Well they weren’t all gone as I already noted earlier on when I said that ~8% of Palestinians were Jews at the turn of the 19th century before the onset of Zionist immigration but the story goes that the Jewish diaspora in many countries is issued from Jewish immigration away from Palestine ~2000 years ago. I know that some historians object to that version of history but I personally haven’t researched it and it doesn’t really impact what I have to say.
What I know is that most Jewish citizens of Israel are immigrants or offspring of people who immigrated to Palestine in the 20th century, which hardly gives them any right to the land over people who have been there for centuries/millennia. I am sorry these facts make you unwell but it is no fantasy and believing the opposite is deeply racist. It appears it is time someone told you the truth. If you can’t deal with it, I am not sure what to tell you except may be you could take it up with the people who indoctrinated you. Just a thought.
@46 is for @43
@33: And finally, the other shoe drops. If ever, anywhere in the world at any time, there was a ‘settler-colonialist state’ which expanded via (what we now call) genocide, it is the United States. But WE don’t have to give up land? WE can enforce racist separation for centuries with neither penalty nor reparations?@41: ‘Nice fairy tale but nobody can be said to have “clung to a homeland” after having been gone for around 2000 years.’
Because the Roman Empire drove them out of their ancestral homeland. You seem to have an endless tolerance for imperial powers abusing conquered locals — so long as that imperial power discriminates against the Jews. (So did the Brits on that same land, just not enough for your liking, apparently.)
@44: “It’s very very Seattle to vote against something (in this case a stadium) and then complain when the team leaves.”
How, exactly, does noting the team recently signed a long lease indicate the team will soon leave? I would have loved for the Ms to have departed in the mid-90s, never to return.
Once the Kingdome was gone, Pioneer Square could’ve extended south. There were many possibilities for that land. Instead, on most days, it’s empty acres of asphalt surrounding empty sports palaces. At least SLU has been redeveloped nicely.
@46: Jewish history just bounces right off your forehead. Jewish indigeneity just bounces right off your forehead. With each new comment, you out yourself more and more. Again, no one is calling you an anti-semite in, like, a nazi sense, but dude…this is a problem you gotta work on.
The IDF appears to have taken out Hezbollah leaders in bunkers built into basements of civilian apartments.
Atricle 53 of the Geneva Convention of 1949 is applicable.
“In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling ⁹at the time, offers a definite military advantage.”
Do such bunkers and persons, “make an effective contribution to military action” for Hezbollah? Of course.
So Hezbollah makes civilian buildings, and all civilians within, into lawful targets when they employ such structures for military use.
@36,
“There are millions of Palestinians refugees today as a result of Israel’s continued expansionism. That can and has to be fixed, now, irrespective of your deluded take about Palestine belonging to Jews.”
Stopping that expansion (how retreating from Gaza in 2005 is expansion, is beyond me) is not good enough for Hamas or Hezbollah.
The former’s charter commits it to the complete elimination of all infidels, and Jews in particular, from the Holy Land, up to and including sacrificing themselves and all allies in that effort, if necessary. The latter is committed to the forceful occupation of Jerusalem and removal of all Jews.
There is no compromise position that gets either group their objective, because they define their objective in such a way that any Jews remaining in the Holy Land is no compromise. It’s actually defeat.
So the only thing the Jews can offer to Hamas and Hezbollah is capitulation and ceasing to exist as a nation.
On another point, see @50.
@50: “The IDF appears to have taken out Hezbollah leaders in bunkers built into basements of civilian apartments.”
Oh man! TWZ is reporting that Hassan Nasrallah was the target! That dude has deserved a JDAM to the dome since before JDAMs were invented!
@50: “Residents of Azaz in northwestern Syria are celebrating the killing of Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah despite no official confirmation that he is dead.”
https://x.com/JoeTruzman/status/1839760479495041133
Ain’t no party like a Syrian party! I might have to crack out the scotch myself if it is confirmed!
@50: Possibly Esmail Qaani too?! No fucking way, that’s gotta be just rumors! Qaani wouldn’t stick his neck out that far when Israel has been schwacking fools left and right.
@50: Lebanese civilians attacking a flag-waving Hizbollah parade! Man I’m fucking proud of these people! Don’t let the terrorists turn your neighborhood into Gaza! Don’t let them make jihad on your backs!
https://x.com/hahussain/status/1839456331985829941
Thumper is all over calling anyone who criticizes Israel or their creation myth an anti semite. Low road. And tensora keeps harping on Ottoman rules from 100s of years ago that are as draconian as current Israeli rules for Palestinians. Can Palestinians return to their pre Nakba homes?
Prof after all your complaining about sockpuppet trolling you return to grace us as one. You been hitting the bottle or something before posting? Step it up man.
the madprof hasn’t returned from Exile Garbby
his alllegiance hasn’t endoed overnight. this
is likely Wormtongue’s self-cloning AI as
unbridled as his bloodlust for Capitalism
sent here to accomplish wormmy’s
One Goal: to shut down comments
at his hated tS. he’s (they’re) on a
mission form his God to get don-
old back into the Whitehouse
apparently.
Adios,
@tS
there’ll be Many
Rejoicing when
Seattle’s down
to t. Seatimes
and the Little
fucking Nick-
el. buh-bye
Progress.
Hell-Lo
Fascism:
have You flogged
your Crew today?
@56: Still determined to keep your hard-earned F minus in history, I see. As we’ve previously covered, the Ottoman Empire began serious restrictions on Jews in the 1880s, and kept adding and tightening those religiously-based restrictions, until it finally lost control of Palestine to the British Empire. This all took place less than 150 years ago, not “100s.” (Basic arithmetic, how does it work?)
And YOU are the one who keeps invoking this history, by earnestly pretending the population of Jews in late-Ottoman (or is it early-British? You never quite say) Empire Palestine was very low for reasons other than the discriminatory edicts of their Imperial overlords. You can rage at me all you want for spoiling your nice, pat explanation with my stubborn historical facts, but that Imperial discrimination remains a significant part of the history of modern Palestine. And you’re the one saying that history is important, each and every time you mention the population of Jews in post-Ottoman Palestine.
“Can Palestinians return to their pre Nakba homes?”
Can they un-lose the war they started? Can they un-invite the six Arab armies which illegally invaded Palestine during that war, which caused most of their dislocation? Please put your best historical knowledge to work on those questions, and please do tell us what you decide.
Hassan Nasrallah confirmed killed! Bien joué, Israel! Hell of a way to start the weekend!
As I suspected last night, Esmail Qaani was not among the dead, but his seniormost deputy in-country was. Amazing how these senior figures in the Iranian government “just so happen” to get caught up in attacks that are aimed at Hizbollah! Coincidence, I’m sure!
Congratulations to Israel and to all good people around the world.
@56: Nonsense. I’m a critic of Israel myself. There’s nothing anti-semitic about criticizing Israel, and I don’t call critics of Israel anti-semites. You seem a little bit oddly defensive on this point, don’t you? 😉
I do call people anti-semites who harbor false and hostile ideas about Jews. So far, that’s been only Average Bob.
Some people who comment on Slog struggle to see anti-semitism, even (or perhaps especially) those who pride themselves on their anti-racism with regards to every other group. To help well-meaning people who maybe have a little trouble in this area, I’ll explain Average Bob’s anti-semitism.
Average Bob is convinced that the Jewish claim to Israel represents an attempt to turn back the clock 3,000 to “the Bronze Age.” He believes that Jews once lived in Israel, left for thousands of years, and are now demanding their land back.
This “Bronze Age” theory is anti-semitic because it erases 3,000 years of continuous Jewish history in Israel. Not only did the Jews never leave Israel, they continued to self-govern in Israel, and they organized resistance in Israel to every empire that came, from the Babylonians to the Romans to the Persians to the Arabs to the Crusaders to the Turks to the British, and any number of others in-between.
Many Jews left Israel during all this fighting. The current war with Hizbollah is far from the first time Jews have been driven from their homes in Israel! Average Bob is obsessed with the Jews that left, especially those who settled in Europe. Their descendants’ return to Israel, hundreds or thousands of years later, is the basis for his false belief that Israel is a “colony,” presumably a colony of some unnamed European power.
Bob’s fixation on European-descended Jews ignores two important facts: first, the unbroken Jewish claim to Israel based on resistance, self-governance, and resistance to imperialism; and second, that indigenous peoples do not lose their connection to their land regardless of where they are born. So long as the land claim remains alive, as the Jewish claim to Israel always has, all members of the population have a share in that claim, regardless of their place of birth. That’s indigeneity, and it applies equally to the Jews of Israel as it does to the Native Americans of our country.
By denying the fact of unbroken Jewish residence, self-governance, and resistance in Israel, Average Bob espouses anti-semitism. By reducing Jews to colonizers from Europe, Average Bob espouses anti-semitism.
Phew! What a novel! Next time, y’all can just Wikipedia this shit, please!
“Congratulations to Israel… “
for their assassinations
and for Continuing To
keep bibi the Fuck
Outta Prison
“… and to all good people around the world.”
give ’em Time:
they’ll get to
Them, too,
eventually
One way
or some
other*
the Far “right”
is Strong in
these ones.
*canyousay
Nukular
Winter
and buh-Bye
“Global Warming”?
omg: “Saviors” they are!
“By reducing
Jews to colonizers
from Europe, Average
Bob espouses anti-semitism.”*
by reducing averagebob to
an Anti-semite Thumper
proves Himself (if a bot
can Be a ‘himself’) to
be a Pro-Genocidal
pro-Zionist pro-bibi
Nutnyahoo far-rite
Extremist.
*if this ain’t
Wormtongue,
senior, I’ll eat my hat
@62: Confirmed. I am a sock puppet account of the one you call Wormtongue. 😄😄😄
I call Wormtongue
‘Wormtongue’ or
sometimes just
‘wormmy’ for
Short
and when I do he
Always Knows
just to whom
I’m talkin’
To.
will wormmy
Wait til he
Pulls your
Plug just
BEFORE
you be-
Come
Senti-
nent?
@64: lol, it’s all conspiracies when it comes to Israel, isn’t it?
@65
oh Fuck NO
botsky!* bibi
does it OPENLY
and DEFIES
The Planet to
fucking Stop him.
it
Escalates
& yet You
Cheer it ON.
how can this
POSSIBLY End
Well for Israel?
*or
do you
prefer El
Thumper?
(I was just
Kidding. you
Know wormmy’d
NEVER UNPLUG YOU!).
@62: Killing the leader of the enemy militia in war is not an “assassination,” it’s warfare. (Tell us all about your sympathy for jihadi terrorists, without having the guts to admit you sympathize with jihadi terrorists.)
@63: “if this ain’t
Wormtongue,
senior, I’ll eat my hat”
Enjoy your tinfoil diet. Not only am I not thumpus, I don’t agree that indigeneity has any relevance to the Israeli-Arab situation. (I disagree with both him and averagebob on that point, so I’m not him, either.) Good riddance.
@66: Ha ha, tears for terrorists!
68 — ouch!
… and utter
Abandonement
for the psycophant
@67
daydrinking
again wormmy? huh
(it’s actually a
Better look.
sleep Well).
@61 I lost count of the lies you said about me and what I said. You are free to believe whatever story you want but what we all know for sure is: Jews were a small minority of Palestinians in the late 1800 and almost all Israeli Jews were NOT resident of Palestine before the 20th century given they or their ancestors immigrated to Palestine within the last 100 odd years.
It is very telling that you don’t have a SINGLE word to say about the people who have occupied that land for centuries to millennia, which underlines your racism toward Palestinians who aren’t Jews. Of course, acknowledging their existence would demand that you consider their humanity, which you cannot do. I feel sorry for you.
lol, your history of the Jews in Israel has a few thousand gap years, Mister Bronze Age! Here’s a free education, courtesy of Professor Wikipedia:
https://tinyurl.com/Jews-in-Israel
CONTENT WARNING: may exacerbate pre-existing Jew-hatred
@71 There is no gap in history; as I said there were 8% Palestinians Jews in the late 1800
I don’t follow hidden urls
Another lie: I don’t hate Jews or any other religious/ethnic group
but … still not a single word from Thumpus the racist about the people who occupied the land before Israeli Jews immigrated to Palestine in the 20th century huh huh
@72: Ha ha ha! When it comes to Jewish history, you’re as blind as an Iranian ambassador who’s just received an unexpected page from Hizbollah! 😆 The Jewish claim to Israel is not in the least grounded in the percentage of Jews present in Israel during the final decades of the Ottoman Empire. You’re tilting at windmills.
The Jewish claim to Israel is grounded in 3,000 years of continuous Jewish residence, Jewish self-governance, and Jewish resistance to a dozen different foreign empires. That’s what makes Israel the homeland of the Jews, not any kind of Ottoman imperial population balance, lol! Indigenous peoples really boggle your mind, don’t they!
“Indigenous peoples
really boggle your
mind, don’t they!”
how ’bout Ours?
do they give US
a Pass? do we
hand it all
back to
them
whatif They
started popping
by popping in and
Evicting current Residents
taking over their Homes and
ripping up the streets power lines
sewers — whose Side’d You be on thumper?
still on bibi’s
no doubt.
wormmy
too I do
‘Spose.
“Indigenous peoples
really boggle your
mind, don’t they!”
how ’bout Ours?
do they give US
a Pass? do we
hand it all
back to
them
whatif They
started popping
by popping in and
Evicting current Residents
taking over their Homes and
ripping up the streets power lines
sewers — whose Side’d You be on thumper?
still on bibi’s
no doubt.
wormmy
too I do
‘Spose.
and what if They
began dropping Two
Thousand Pound Bunker-Bustin’
Bombs on neo-lib and -cons’ homes?
let
God
sort it
all out?
@75: As a matter of fact, I do support the Land Back movement in North America, both in word and in deed, in both my personal and professional lives. That’s because I’m a real anti-colonialist, not like the haters of Israel who deploy a false “anti-colonialism” as a smokescreen to conceal something much darker. 😇
@thumbfer
what if your
“Haters of Israel”
did, in Fact, not “hate
Israel” but Loved not only
Jews but also Palestinians?
and, instead of Hating Israel,
merely Hated what nutnyahoo’s
done to keep his ass outta prison &
Continues in his genocidal Distraction?
would they Still be
“antisemites” to you? whose
vaunted opinion we clearly value so dearly?
See, whenever someone doesn’t concur with Thumpus bigoted version of history where Palestinians don’t exist, have no rights and can be disposed of, they are labeled antisemite and terrorist.
Any thoughtful being agrees that people who have continuously occupied the land for generations upon generations, as far back as it is useful to think about (most of them for at least 3700 years as indicated by modern genetic studies) have a right to continue living on that land but not according to extremists like Thumpus because in their deceased mind ideology trumps facts. Facts such as almost all Israeli Jews are issued from immigration from countries where their ancestors have lived and mixed genes with other people for 1000s of years.
“A 2020 study on human remains from Middle Bronze Age Palestinian (2100–1550 BC) populations suggests a significant degree of genetic continuity in Arabic-speaking Levantine populations (such as Palestinians, Druze, Lebanese, Jordanians, Bedouins, and Syrians), as well as several Jewish groups (such as Ashkenazi, Iranian, and Moroccan Jews).[36] Palestinians, among other Levantine groups, were found to derive 81–87% of their ancestry from Bronze age Levantines, relating to Canaanites as well as Kura–Araxes culture impact from before 2400 BCE (4400 years before present); 8–12% from an East African source and 5–10% from Bronze age Europeans. Results show that a significant European component was added to the region since the Bronze Age (on average ~8.7%), seemingly related to the Sea Peoples, excluding Ashkenazi and Moroccan Jews who harbour ~ 41% and 31% European-related ancestry respectively, both populations having a history in Europe.[36]: 1146–1157
A 2021 study by the New York Genome Center found that the predominant component of the DNA of modern Palestinians matches that of Bronze Age Palestinian Canaanites who lived around 2500–1700 BCE.[33] ”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Palestinians
Cain and Abel. We are all a collective spiritual mass sharing this earth. How we treat each other is how we treat ourselves. Human dignity must overcome petty strife.
I think Thumpus is confusing colony with colonizers. Then again, he/she/it doesn’t appear to have more than one song in the jukebox.
Colonizer is a country or ethnic group that uses force to exploit or displace locals from their homes (you’re a fan of wiki, so use it, but you can start with british colonialism, or settlers in the west bank). Colonized means your home/land/resources have been, or in the case of the west bank, are being taken by a colonizer. This obviously doesn’t need explaining to most.
@tensora, you might be confusing me with someone else. I am just having at you for being an idiot and not expecting you to give reasoned responses.
Proverbs 20:3
Honor belongs to the person who ends a dispute,
but any fool can get himself into a quarrel.
@78: “Palestinians don’t exist, have no rights and can be disposed of, they are labeled antisemite and terrorist.”
Yikes, listen to you, those are your ugly words, not mine. I’m also not surprised to see how very, VERY interested you are in genetic studies of Jews. Nothing sinister about that, eh! 😜
Three thousand years of continuous Jewish residence in Israel, Jewish self-governance in Israel, and Jewish resistance to foreign imperialism in Israel is JUST NOT ENOUGH JEWISH HISTORY to satisfy averagebob! 😄 Maybe another three thousand years will satisfy him…or maybe Jews will never be anything other than colonists, eh, averagebob? 😉
@72: “There is no gap in history; as I said there were 8% Palestinians Jews in the late 1800”
Your “gap in history” consists of your ignoring the events immediately prior, which produced that 8% figure: the Ottoman Empire’s policies, which restricted Jews from owning land in Palestine, and eventually even from traveling to Palestine.
Therefore, your argument relies entirely upon accepting the validity of outsider imperial edicts in bossing the Palestinians around, which sits rather oddly with your insistence that Palestinians can and should forcibly resist outsiders telling them what to do.
Watching the international hard left willingly become apologists for imperialism really pounds home the validity of Horseshoe Theory.
@el thumppee
what if your
“Haters of Israel”
did, in Fact, not “hate
Israel” but Loved not only
Jews but also Palestinians?
and, instead of Hating Israel,
merely Hated what nutnyahoo’s
done to keep his ass outta prison &
Continues in his genocidal Distraction?
would they Still be
“antisemites” to you? whose
vaunted opinion we clearly value so dearly?
@79, And who polices humans when they don’t overcome petty strife? With how much force?
Humans also have free will. If they can’t exercise it for evil, as well as good, its not truly free will.
@81, And by what means do they end it, if the other side will use as much force as required to end it by killing those they dispute with? Do they end it by surrendering to be executed? That ends the dispute because they were willing to give their own life to end it. Coercive force then wins.
@82 Truncating my comment to make it say the opposite of what I said, insinuating that I am some kind of eugenicist for citing scientific studies showing that Palestinians have occupied Palestine for at least 3700 years … you keep scrapping the bottom of the barrel but these methods of thugs complement your ideology and your support for the mass murder of innocents, so you are at least consistent in that regard.
@83 “the events immediately prior, which produced that 8% figure”
The 8% figure was produced by 2000 years of history, which included multiple conquests and immigration of Jews away from Palestine according to many historians. The Ottomans blocked Jewish immigration toward Palestine only in the later part of the 19th century when the Zionist movement started to call for Jews to immigrate. I am not agreeing with what the Ottomans did, no more than I am agreeing with the multiple conquests of that land. By now, they are facts of history and therefore, they just are since we can only act on the present: only 8% of the pop was Jewish at that time before mass immigration started.
What is certain however is that nothing, absolutely nothing, can justify stealing the land away from the people who have occupied it for 1000s of years. Claiming that the Ottomans delaying Jewish immigration by 50 odd years somehow changes that calculus is just more evidence of the twisted logic you keep bringing to this comment board.
“Horseshoe Theory”
Kwack! kwack! My, oh my, what an intellect you have!
@77, 84
wtf wormmy
Why’s it taking
so Long for you
to Boot-up your
Chatbot? I know
AI’s a whole New
field & we Must be
Patient but it’s getting
a little Ridiculous. know
that You can control it Now
but your little Thumper’s gonna
Own your ass in due time. or, at
Least, Everyone Else’s. still Waiting,
wormmy.
@85
well,
bibi Ends
it when he
evokes WIII
and,
once
‘again,’
you’ll be
proven right.
truly a
win-Win-WIN
for
Mordorites.
from The New Republic:
Don’t Get Psyched Out!
Trump Is an Evil Buf-
foon, Not an Evil
Genius.
The final weeks of this campaign
will be hard fought. Now’s not
the time to be jumping
at shadows.
There are six weeks to go now, and as we enter the home stretch of this election year, I think it’s crucial for all of us to remember something.
Liberals tend to ascribe to conservatives
the quality of an evil genius.
[omg: wormmy!?]
It plays into a lot of stereotypes.
In one of my all-time favorite Simpsons episodes, the head of the Springfield Republican Committee was, of course, Mr. Burns. Dracula was also a member.
In real life, Karl Rove probably has a lot to do with this posture. The media elevated him to genius stature quite early on in George W. Bush’s campaign.
In fact, Rove was wrong about a lot of stuff. His candidate didn’t win the popular vote, lucked out in Florida because a bunch of Jewish voters in Palm Beach County accidentally voted for Pat Buchanan, and ended up being “elected” by an unprincipled Supreme Court.
Later, the Republican realignment that Rove confidently predicted never materialized, instead crashing hard on the rocks of a dishonest and costly war and a deregulatory scheme that nearly destroyed the world economy.
But the media, forever on the hunt for a Great Man of History, venerated him, and as a result he got in liberals’ heads.
My message to you today is on the importance of not getting psyched out in these next six weeks. Our tendency, at times like these, is to see catastrophe lurking everywhere.
Remember the waning days of the 2008 campaign? Remember the stories in those closing weeks that surely meant the death of the Obama candidacy? The Obama aunt who was living in the United States illegally?
The young John McCain volunteer who went to the police claiming that a Black man attacked her and carved a B (for Barack) on her face with a knife? I remember people saying, “Oh my God, that’s it, we’re cooked.”
Obama won handily.
Republicans aren’t evil geniuses. That is especially true of the Republican now running for president. He may be evil. But he’s no genius.
He’s a buffoon. And while he may of course still win—he is a buffoon who is unfortunately optimized for the vicissitudes of the Electoral College—my little sniff of the zeitgeist suggests to me that he and his campaign are making blunder after blunder, and they’re hurting him.
–by Michael Tomasky; September 23, 2024
oodles:
https://newrepublic.com/article/186228/trump-republican-genius-2024-election
@86: You’re the one trying to use genetics to measure precisely how white the Jews are. Your anti-racism has circled all the way back around to regular racism, lol!
@77; 84; and 88
& @el thumped?
what if your
“Haters of Israel”
did, in Fact, not “hate
Israel” but Loved not only
Jews but also Palestinians?
and, instead of Hating Israel,
merely Hated what nutnyahoo’s
done to keep his ass outta prison &
Continues in his genocidal Distraction?
would they Still be
“antisemites” to you? whose
vaunted opinion we clearly value so dearly?
@89: “your ‘Haters of Israel’ did, in fact, not ‘hate Israel’ but loved not only Jews but also Palestinians”
As a large language model, I don’t have an opinion on politics. 😀
Lol, you’re obviously anxious for my attention, so here it is. I think if the criticism of Israel were based on an equal love of Jews and Palestinians, the critics wouldn’t be so quick to attack the foundational idea of Zionism: that Israel is the ancestral, unbroken, and unceded homeland of all the Jews in the world.
People like our resident “race realist” AverageBob are SO DETERMINED to prove that Israel is an illegitimate European colony, not a land were Jews have always lived and always governed their own affairs. It doesn’t matter to these critics how many thousands of years of Jewish history they have to erase, to them there’s only the Bronze Age, the last decade of the Ottoman Empire, and nothing meaningful in-between. That isn’t an argument predicated on love of Jews, it’s an argument predicated on disrespect for Jews.
You can make a non-anti-semitic argument that Israel has killed too many Palestinian civilians in its quest to defeat Hamas. But if your argument is that Jews don’t have a rightful place in Israel, that is an anti-semitic argument.
“I love Jews so much I want to deny their history and their heritage. Look how European they all are!” Ha ha, I think the Jews can do without that kind of love!
@90
“But
if your
argument is
that Jews don’t have
a rightful place in Israel,
that is an anti-semitic argument.”
gotta Love your
qual-IF-ier but show
me Once where I claimed
or wished for or hinted at Jews-
outta-Israel? you’re conflating there
also
what if your
“Haters of Israel”
did, in Fact, not “hate
Israel” but Loved not only
Jews but also Palestinians?
and, instead of Hating Israel,
merely Hated what nutnyahoo’s
done to keep his ass outta prison &
Continues in his genocidal Distraction?
would they Still be
“antisemites” to you? whose
vaunted opinion we clearly value so dearly?
can you answer
my query?
and I Promise
there’s noth-
ing Political
in it.
omg
we’re teaching
wormmy’s chatterbot
@91
oh, LOOK
Wormtongue / !
more Blatant THEFT of
PROPERTY: ‘your fucking Chatterbot™’!
first it’s Tolkien* — & You — all over
me like a cheap suit for Wormtongue™
(which surely Tolkien wouldda Loved in its
current application), but I digress. where was I?
. . . and ya don’t even
gotta Make this
shit up.
*actual Tolkien quote:
“The most Improper job of Any man
… is bossing Other men. Not one
in a million is fit for it, & Least
of all those who Seek the
Opportunity.”
he wrote
lotr for
you.
@92: ….Did you just work yourself into a foaming rant in response to your own comment?! 😂😂😂
@88 “You’re the one trying to use genetics to measure precisely how white the Jews are”
So now you are straight out making stuff up. Did you forget to take your meds today or you were always this unhinged but hiding it relatively well?
@90 You are conflating anti-Zionism (or anti-colonialism) with anti-semitism, which is a classic pro-Zionist ploy to demonize anti-colonialists. You are also conflating Israel with all Jews, whereas there are millions of Jews who disagree with Zionism and Israel. Palestine already had long term inhabitants (including 8% Palestinian Jews) before Jewish immigrants started showing up ~100 years ago . Immigrants do not have a greater claim to the land than the Palestinians who already lived there continuously for 1000s of years. Contrarily to Christian Zionists, I believe that Jews can keep living with the rest of us and continue making great contributions to our civilization (until climate change takes care of that)
Which one is Wormy again? It’s hard to keep track as they go by. Maybe a dramatis personae would help?
I miss the Raindrop. He was always good for some reasoned moral outrage for other to oppose on reflex.
@85: “The 8% figure was produced by 2000 years of history,”
Yes, including the Roman Empire’s destruction of the Jews’ Temple in Jerusalem, and the Roman Empire’s forcing many of the Jews into exile. All you’re telling us here is that you’re a-ok fine with foreign imperial powers ruling that territory, and unilaterally imposing their imperial edicts upon the locals.
“I am not agreeing with what the Ottomans did,”
Yes, you absolutely are. Your argument relies upon “what the Ottomans did,” just as your argument relies upon what the Roman Empire had done on the same territory, 1800 years earlier. Again, all you’re showing us is your deep love of foreign rule over Palestine.
“By now, they are facts of history and therefore, they just are since we can only act on the present: only 8% of the pop was Jewish at that time before mass immigration started.”
You keep citing that 8% figure as if it holds some meaning, as if it should somehow determine what happens today. Why? What other areas of human life should be dictated by a single number from 1917 or earlier? Why would an American, of all persons, claim that “mass immigration” does not produce a valid population?
“What is certain however is that nothing, absolutely nothing, can justify stealing the land away from the people who have occupied it for 1000s of years.”
Well then, you must completely oppose the 1948 attempt by the Palestinian Arabs to push the Palestinian Jews into the sea. If successful, it would have run off that land Jews whose families had indeed been living there for “1000s of years.”
“Claiming that the Ottomans delaying Jewish immigration by 50 odd years somehow changes that calculus is just more evidence of the twisted logic you keep bringing to this comment board.”
Uh, that’s exactly what you are doing here. You keep insisting the results of the Ottoman Empire’s exclusionary, anti-Jewish policies should dictate how we behave today.
Insisting that some events or conditions from the past should absolutely determine what we do today is a version of reaction. It’s a demand we allow the actions taken in some mythically better past to dictate our behavior today. Watching the hard left make a demand similar to those of the reactionary right provides an excellent example of Horseshoe Theory in action.
@94: lol, it would be so, so convenient for you if only the Jews had abandoned Israel…had stopped governing themselves in Israel…had stopped returning to Israel from exile…had stopped resisting foreign empires in Israel. If only any of that were true, you would have such a powerful argument against a Jewish Israel. But it is not true. All of those things happened, and they continued to happen without cease for thousands of years.
Your attempt to erase the Jewish history in Israel is anti-semitism, pure and simple. You claim not to hate Jews, and I’m sure on some level that is true, but you are, in fact, an anti-semite. You really need to sit with that. Anti-semitism is not a fatal condition. It is curable. It does not invalidate every good thing you have ever done in your life! 😀 But it is a blemish upon your soul, and you would be a better person if you were to remove it.
Indigenous people are not colonizers on their land. You’re confused because your obsession with race and genetics has led you to conclude that Jews come from Europe. Many Jews were born in Europe, it is true, but Jews are always indigenous to Israel. They have maintained a three-thousand-year-long land claim in Israel in the face of enormous hatred from newcomers (Arabs not the least), and that land claim is the heritage of all the Jews. It does not matter and never has mattered where a particular Jew was born, still less does it matter the color of a particular Jew’s skin. You are fundamentally confused about the nature of indigeneity, and you have allowed your fixation on race to carry you to a profoundly ugly place. The anti-colonial position is to support a Jewish Israel, and the anti-racist position is not to worry so much about what’s in a person’s genes, because that’s not how you measure indigeneity, or Jewishness, or anything else that a well-meaning person would care about.
All this has got me thinking, I hope the Slog never runs anything on Native American issues. I’m almost afraid to imagine the opinions you would espouse on THAT particular subject! 😄
@93
nevermind that now.
but let me ax
you Something
(as at @77 84 88
90 and 93 — so far):
what if your
“Haters of Israel”
did not, in Fact, “hate
Israel” but Loved not only
Palestinians but also Jews?
and, instead of Hating Israel,
merely Hated what nutnyahoo’s
Done to keep his ass outta prison &
Continues in his genocidal Distraction?
would they Still be
“antisemites” to you whose
vaunted opinion we clearly value so dearly?
can you just
answer my
query?
and I Promise
there’s Noth-
ing political
in it. Atall.
@Switfy
in all the Confusion
I believe I’ve
lost Track.
see who responds
most indignantly
heatedly & it’ll
Likely be the
Chatterbot™
or worm-
my.™
@97
2 wrongs don’t make 1 right
I think of your comments as the place where logic goes to die
@99: Ha ha ha, you are very interested in my opinions, but I am not very interested in yours! I gave you my opinion at @90 after you asked for it three times. You started ranting about Lord of the Rings after that, so I had a good chuckle and gave you your space. Ask something new, and if it catches my interest I might give you an answer.
@98 and still not a single word from you about the very existence of Palestinians who have continuously occupied that land for at least 3700 years … Yet you pontificate about the rights of individuals who immigrated there at most ~100 years ago. What an up is down world you appear to live in.
@98, @102: The argument from indigeneity is meaningless generally, and particularly meaningless in the case of Jews and Israel. Their own Scripture says they are not native to that land, that they had been slaves in Egypt, and departed for what is now Israel during the Exodus. I don’t care who has been on what land for how long. Pick a different date, get a different answer as to which group is The One True Rightful Owner Of This Land, so that method is obviously worthless. Humans evolved in sub-Saharan Africa, and roamed out of there for tens of thousands of years before settling into permanent communities, and many places have seen waves of immigration since then.
The UN decided a partition plan for post-Mandate Palestine, dividing the land between an Arab State and a Jewish State. The Palestinian Jews accepted it, some of the Palestinian Arabs accepted it, some of the Palestinian Arabs did not accept it, and the last group opposed it violently. They defied the UN, they chose war, and so for 75 years they’ve had to live with the consequences of choosing defiance and war. I’d far rather discuss what best to do in Ukraine, but opposing imperialism and supporting democracy aren’t high on the Stranger’s list of priorities, so here we are.
@103: “The argument from indigeneity is meaningless generally”
Said the white man living on Indian land! 😀
“I’d far rather discuss what best to do in Ukraine”
A few thousand JASSMs would be a step in the right direction, now that they are flying the F-16. Ground-launched Tomahawk, too, while we’re at it. And I’d throw in Aegis Ashore to really put those Kinzhals to the test.
@103
“I don’t care who has been on what land for how long.”
then, shamelessly in the next paragraph: “I’d far rather discuss what best to do in Ukraine, but opposing imperialism and supporting democracy aren’t high on the Stranger’s list”
Tensor the opportunist who will say anything and its opposite within the same comment
Also, whether or not people violently opposed foreigners giving away part of their land to immigrants, annexing more land is in violation of international law. Not that you care about Israel being a rogue state since you obviously believe we are still the roaming earth grabbing anything we want as if 1000s years of civilization hadn’t changed anything like rule of law, governance, …
@105: The entire concept of “Imperialism,” just seems to bedevil you to no end, at least when you can’t accuse Jews of being behind it. I agree with you and thumpus on the Israeli settlements in the West Bank being illegal. The question is what to do about them, especially after Israel was severely punished by Hamas after removal of settlements from Gaza.
In the case of classic Russian imperialism against a former imperial possession, we should have a dialog about that. But the Stranger and supportive commenters would rather make false accusations against Israel (genocide, apartheid) than engage in constructive dialog on any topic.