Mere months after a public outcry forced Amazon.com to ban a Japanese rape-simulation video game called “Rapelay” (to win, you stalk and rape women and force them to get abortions), the company is doing it again—this time, selling a video game called “Stockholm: An Exploration of True Love.” The setup is that you’ve kidnapped a woman and must make her “fall in love with you,” by poisoning her, raping her, and psychologically torturing her. Because abusing women is a game, get it?
Via Feministing.
the only 5 star review has been updated.
“Ok I didn’t notice the hidden features before. Holy god.”
That’s comedy gold.
But it’s only an array of little pixels on a screen, so it has no real power – like the pedophilic manga is just lines on paper. And really, we’d rather sociopaths played games like this instead of acting this out in real life. Because we all know it’s one or the other, right?
Just curious why your anger isn’t directed at the maker of these products rather than a third-party vendor.
@2. The discussion about the pedophilia manga was whether or not it should be a crime to make or possess it, not whether it has any “real power”.
I don’t think these video games (or the manga) should be criminal, but I do think they have “power” and are in terrible taste (understatement of the day). I’m really surprised that Amazon would carry them — Amazon has standards for what they sell, and it’s pretty shocking that these games made the cut (at least initially).
it’s funny that some people think every product sold on amazon is screened.
Pedophile manga = good, rape video game = bad. I’ll try to keep this straight.
Amazon didn’t “do” anything here, you know; they’ve got a product up for sale, one of a billion items. And, you know, it’s poetry. Art, even. Sick, evil art, but there you go. This is what you were asking for when you asked for censorship to go away. The video game isn’t perpetrating rape but depicting it. Rape is an idea; are you afraid of ideas?
To clarify, this latest product is not a video game, but a DVD choose-your-own-adventure thing–like Mad Dog McCree for the 3DO, but without… well, actually, it’s a perfect analogy. That game was terrible.
@5 exactly
Your anger is misdirected if you’re upset at Amazon for carrying it but not the game’s creators for making it.
I found the tag cloud cute:
Check the boxes next to the tags you consider relevant or enter your own tags in the field below.
appalling(41)
disgusting(41)
hateful(41)
misogyny(40)
sexist(39)
vile(36)
gross(35)
horrible(35)
abhorrent(33)
amazonfail(32)
sexism(31)
See all 56 tags…
But do they have one where you get points by stealing bottles of cheap wine from grocery stores yet?
Should Amazon also stop selling Grand Theft Auto and other video games that depict murder? Murder is bad, too, right? What about books and music? Should they refuse to sell those if they depict evil acts? I’m not defending this particular thing, it sounds awful, but I happen to actually believe in this whole free speech thing, for better or worse. That’s the whole point.
And yes, I know Amazon isn’t the government and you didn’t suggest this product should be illegal, but if Amazon pulls this, then what of GTA and other games?
Does it matter that this item is sold by amazon.com directly and not a third-party seller? Am I wrong in thinking that this means that someone at Amazon actually said yep, we’re going to carry this product (as opposed to all the external vendors that sell things on their site)?
that’s a little harsh, don’t you think erica? amazon is a good company that deals with customer outcry in a timely manner, as with the last rape game. they don’t screen every single product–how could they? they’ll probably eventually pull this one too. try being more reasoned and calm where your feminist outrage is concerned. it will earn you more respect.
That is sick.
Wait.. I’m confused. There’s a big outcry when they hide the GLBT titles, but video games offensive to feminist values need to censored?
I find the idea of such video games offensive and distasteful as well, but I would be violating even more important principles by reacting this way. Part of the price you pay to have your expression protected is to also not impose your desire to censor other things, no matter how unpopular or blatantly offensive.
So a game that features raping women is okay, but hide your books that have anything to do with homosexuals… Way to be awesome Amazon.
“Rape is an idea; are you afraid of ideas? “
Fnarf? Yes, RAPE SCARES ME.
That’s like saying the gallows is poetry, and that African Americans should not be afraid of “depictions” of it. Or that white sheets and pointy white hats are really just fashion statements.
Would someone please ask the Stranger to stop kissing this jerk’s ass? He’s no better than the rest of the Slogophiles.
@13 yes, you are wrong. and it’s absolutely insane that you’d think that all of these individual products are individually screened. they are often processed in batches based on large batches of products that all come from the same distributor.
@16,
Feminist values? Fuck you. How about human rights?
@16: Not raping women is now a “feminist” value? As opposed to … anyone’s values? Yikes.
#20, does it really change his argument?
I wouldn’t say poisoning, raping, and torture is a game. However, I would say that playing a videogame is a game. That’s a victimless crime, like lifting a bottle of wine from a QFC.
Come to think of it, that would make a good videogame, too. We could call it Grand Theft Vino. Or Merlot Mania. I can’t decide.
I have a solution. Every person in America should make a list of the things they find offensive, and then we can just ban the stuff on the lists.
Problem solved, right?
Sigh. I’m disappointed in you people. You should know better. Yes it’s sick, abhorrent, etc. But you are using the exact same logic as people who want to ban gay porn use. You can’t be in favor banning/censoring stuff because you don’t like it. If you are against censorship, you have to always be against it. You can’t make special cases, the ACLU understands this, I just wish more people did.
@22,
Yes, it does. Any man who claims that objecting to abuse of a human being is merely a feminist value is a fucking scumbag.
So when does the iPhone app come out?
…. yeah, like that’s NOT going to happen.
Sales of this disc will almost certainly go up as a result of this posting.
Does that say anything about the usefulness of righteous anger?
@21. I believe what 16 was referring to was the rather overt misogynist ideology reflected by the game, and, ironically, in your “gotcha” appeal to “human rights” you make feminism sound like a dirty word. Moreover, I think his point is dead-on. We can, I believe, critique these games without censoring them and still call ourselves feminists and humanitarians. In fact, I’m not sure what censorship – if it were even possible – might accomplish in the way of human rights or feminist politics. Some of the vilest, most masculinist agendas have been carried out under censor-happy, conservative and moralistic regimes that would censor such games with one hand while banning abortion with the other.
On a different note, however, if Amazon’s decision to carry these games offends you, then, by all means, stop buying media from Amazon! Support local media vendors with whom your politics might hold some sway. Amazon, that great yuppie Wal-Mart of cyberspace, simply doesn’t care.
@17 – the issue with Amazon removing sales rank (not hiding) books on gay subjects a month or so ago turned out to actually be a “glitch” in their cataloging system combined with human error. Amazon didn’t handle the problem very well initially, responding instead with pat PR crap, and in one case sending a customer service email that further confused the issue (the rep who sent it didn’t know what had happened).
It was a mess, but it was also an object-lesson in what happens when a mass outcry outpaces the truth. See this insightful mea culpa from Clay Shirky, who initially participated in #amazonfail.
@18, do you think that all depictions of the gallows should be banned? What about other depictions of the Stockholm Syndrome? should everything that scares YOU be banned? Should all unpleasant things be hidden?
Please note that this video game or whatever the fuck it is has never raped anyone. Purchasing a copy of it is not rape; watching it is not rape. Rape is against the law. Depictions of rape are not, and are extremely common in popular culture.
Should Amazon be permitted to sell DVDs of Lars Von Trier’s movies?
These are serious questions. You don’t appear to be a serious person, so I doubt you’ll be able to answer them.
@26, w7ngman’s point was that there are plenty of games that depict horrible crimes against human rights, and the only people that really object to their existence are histrionic ‘concerned parents’ groups’. This is a particularly sick-making version of a game, but it IS a game.
ECB’s stated objection is NOT to human beings being harmed one way or the other, but the depiction of harm; the same type of depiction as of murder and racial hatred and the predatory sex trade in a game like GTA.
That said, Amazon is almost certainly not the appropriate marketplace for games like that, and they will be right to take it down from their website.
I’m sorry, but when slog ran all the photos of the commentators at the most recent slog-happy, well, it ruined slog for me.
This isn’t a freedom of speech or a censorship issue. Amazon is a corporation, not the government or a public entity.
I’m not saying that this product shouldn’t be made or sold (i.e., it shouldn’t be banned), just that I’m surprised that Amazon is the one selling it. Somehow, to me that makes the product seem more “acceptable” or “mainstream.” I don’t know — maybe I need to adjust my view of what Amazon is, but I think of it as more like Target or other similar stores in terms of its brand. If Amazon’s direct sales really has a “we sell anything, no matter what” approach, then fine, I guess this product should stay.
That’s entirely your issue and not mine. There’s nothing “gotcha” about getting men to understand that rape is not something that only women, or feminists, should be concerned about. That you implicitly believe that it is, and that my criticism of #16 hurts feminism somehow, speaks volumes about YOU.
#26, no, your ad hominem attack doesn’t change his argument.
@29: I didn’t say anything about “human rights.”
Comic books should be banned too. Especially those horror and crime comics from EC.
#18, “Would someone please ask the Stranger to stop kissing this jerk’s ass?”
Don’t get mad just because he’s above your reading level.
@16 & @17:
The issue with this game and Amazon’s glitch would only be comparable if a search for women’s studies or feminism returned only misogynistic, pro-rape, and anti-woman materials.
As Anthony mentioned @30, it was a combination of things (mostly to do with metadata coding and cataloging tags) – and it did highlight that as a company they have some flaws/weaknesses in their system, but it is not the same situation as selling a game or other item that is objectionable.
Sadly there are games and other things like this that are far worse for sale (usually on right-wing websites), but like it or not they exist. While there may not be much that can be done to stop their production and distribution – awareness and education on why the actions and values/viewpoints within these materials are wrong is often the best way to counter their effects.
Julie @ 34: Disagree. It is a censorship/freedom of speech issue. Censorship can be harmful when it comes from any large institution, public or private. US government censorship (1st amendment issues) are only one type of censorship we should be concerned about, but the reasons we are concerned about that should also give us reason to be concerned about corporations engaged in similar behavior.
Amazon should be content-agnostic. We should criticize (but not ban) the game’s makers.
Then how do items for sale get chosen at Amazon? There’s not *one* person who actually looks at the products and their descriptions and makes the decision to put it up for sale or not? Not even the webminion who’s making up the product page? No checks or balances for these kinds of products that could cause marketing problems?
Too weird… .
@34 talk about the central problem with the internet. With an inventory as large and varied as Amazon’s, I’d bet that almost certainly there is not a human being working for their management that specifically knows that this product is being sold. I can’t imagine they would continue selling it if someone in the chain of command were notified. (ECB did you send them an email?) I don’t think they want to be known as the kind of place you can buy any disgusting, fleabag product that exists, but they clearly have to work harder at filtering stuff like this.
@42 I’d also bet that most of their product pages is produced off a template. For small-sellers like this game, they probably don’t have anyone to look at specifics – they just plug in a product picture, description and price and boom, it’s there on the internet.
Hell, it’s already unavailable on Amazon. Someone must have said something.
#20,26: your point is kind of stupid regardless. Yes, it’s a human value. So is EVERY OTHER FEMINIST VALUE. Do you troll feminist blogs screeching “How DARE you not call that a HUMAN value!” No, I don’t fucking think so.
ahem, *are* produced off a template.
What good is a preview if you don’t use it?
@38: Yeah, and we should establish a Comics Code, too. 😉
Oh, wait, we already did that during the 1950s and ruined the lives and livelihood of many very talented men and women (since the comics biz was one of the few areas where women and minorities could seek employment).
@38 is referencing the witch hunt against comics, which is nicely detailed in the book “The Ten-Cent Plague: The Great Comic-Book Scare and How It Changed America” by David Hajdu.
Regarding amazonfail being a “glitch”, I’m curious as to whether anyone has found any evidence for that other than the company’s word.
@41 – I think it’s a little crazy to say that a business should be content-agnostic. Should Disney sell porn? Should Wal-mart sell snuff films?
If Amazon has defined itself as a place that is inherently content-agnostic, that’s fine (i.e., “we will directly sell anything that is legal”) — but, that’s not my impression of them (my impression is obviously influenced by their marketing and could be wrong…). If they have some standards, then it’s a little surprising that this product met them.
That being said, I think that most likely what’s happening here is Amazon does not have a very good review process for what is listed and the product was posted. If people complain and highlight the situation, perhaps Amazon will review it, decide it’s unacceptable, and take it down. Or perhaps not.
I’m sorry, but I have a hard time getting upset at Amazon for selling this. I think that the people who made it are misogynist trash, but I doubt that Amazon was aware until now, and they’ve made it unavailable.
Amazon sells books on every conceivable topic, and representing many conflicting viewpoints–why would anyone think that these materials represent Amazon’s views?
I’m sorry, but this just doesn’t seem like a constructive use of our energies.