28 years old, female, 59, 263 lbs. Credit: Kelly O
28 years old, female, 59, 263 lbs.
  • Kelly O
  • 28 years old, female, 5’9″, 263 lbs.

This is my body (over there—see it?). I have lived in this body my whole life. I have wanted to change this body my whole life. I have never wanted anything as much as I have wanted a new body. I am aware every day that other people find my body disgusting. I always thought that some day—when I finally stop failing—I will become smaller, and when I become smaller literally everything will get better (I’ve heard It Gets Better)! My life can begin! I will get the clothes that I want, the job that I want, the love that I want. It will be great! Think how great it will be to buy some pants or whatever at J. Crew. Oh, man. Pants. Instead, my body stays the same.

There is not a fat person on earth who hasn’t lived this way. Clearly this is a TERRIBLE WAY TO EXIST. Also, strangely enough, it did not cause me to become thin. So I do not believe any of it anymore, because fuck it very much.

This is my body. It is MINE. I am not ashamed of it in any way. In fact, I love everything about it. Men find it attractive. Clothes look awesome on it. My brain rides around in it all day and comes up with funny jokes. Also, I don’t have to justify its awesomeness/attractiveness/healthiness/usefulness to anyone, because it is MINE. Not yours.

I’m not going to spend a bunch of time blogging about fat acceptance here (but please read this), because other writers have already done it much more eloquently, thoroughly, and radically than I ever could. But I do feel obligated to try to explain what this all means.

You asked me for links, Dan, so here are some links for you. There are plenty more, but if you want me to go through each one and explain to you how these words and implications hurt and shame people, you’re going to have to pay me overtime (in Doritos!!!!!). I get that you think you’re actually helping people and society by contributing to the fucking Alp of shame that crushes every fat person every day of their lives—the same shame that makes it a radical act for me to post a picture of my body and tell you how much it weighs. But you’re not helping. Shame doesn’t work. Diets don’t work. Shame is a tool of oppression, not change.

Fat people already are ashamed. It’s taken care of. No further manpower needed on the shame front, thx. I am not concerned with whether or not fat people can change their bodies through self-discipline and “choices.” Pretty much all of them have tried already. A couple of them have succeeded. Whatever. My question is, what if they try and try and try and still fail? What if they are still fat? What if they are fat forever? What do you do with them then? Do you really want millions of teenage girls to feel like they’re trapped in unsightly lard prisons that are ruining their lives, and on top of that it’s because of their own moral failure, and on top of that they are ruining America with the terribly expensive diabetes that they don’t even have yet? You know what’s shameful? A complete lack of empathy.

And if you really claim to still be confused—”Nu uh! I never said anything u guyz srsly!”—there can be no misunderstanding shit like this:

I am thoroughly annoyed at having my tame statements of fact—being heavy is a health risk; rolls of exposed flesh are unsightly—characterized as “hate speech.”

Ha!

1. “Rolls of exposed flesh are unsightly” is in no way a “tame statement of fact.” It is not a fact at all—it is an incredibly cruel, subjective opinion that reinforces destructive, paternalistic, oppressive beauty ideals. I am not unsightly. No one deserves to be told that they’re unsightly. But this is what’s behind this entire thing—it’s not about “health,” it’s about “eeeewwwww.” You think fat people are icky. Eeeewww, a fat person might touch you on a plane. With their fat! Eeeeewww! Coincidentally, that’s the same feeling that drives anti-gay bigots, no matter what excuses they drum up about “family values” and, yes, “health.” It’s all “eeeewwwww.” And sorry, I reject your eeeeeewwww.

2. You are not concerned about my health. Because if you were concerned about my health, you would also be concerned about my mental health, which has spent the past 28 years being slowly eroded by statements like the above. Also, you don’t know anything about my health. You do happen to be the boss of me, but you are not the doctor of me. You have no idea what I eat, how much I exercise, what my blood pressure is, or whether or not I’m going to get diabetes. Not that any of that matters, because it is entirely none of your business.

3. “But but but my insurance premiums!!!” Bullshit. You live in a society with other people. I don’t have kids, but I pay taxes that fund schools. The idea that we can somehow escape affecting each other is deeply conservative. Barbarous, even. Is that really what you’re going for? Good old-fashioned American individualism? Please.

4. But most importantly: I reject this entire framework. I don’t give a shit what causes anyone’s fatness. It’s irrelevant and it’s none of my business. I am not making excuses, because I have nothing to excuse. I reject the notion that thinness is the goal, that thin = better—that I am an unfinished thing and that my life can really start when I lose weight. That then I will be a real person and have finally succeeded as a woman. I am not going to waste another second of my life thinking about this. I don’t want to have another fucking conversation with another fucking woman about what she’s eating or not eating or regrets eating or pretends to not regret eating to mask the regret. OOPS I JUST YAWNED TO DEATH.

If you really want change to happen, if you really want to “help” fat people, you need to understand that shaming an already-shamed population is, well, shameful. Do you know what happened as soon as I rejected all this shit and fell in unconditional luuuuurve with my entire body? I started losing weight. Immediately. WELL LA DEE FUCKING DA.

Eds. note: Dan Savage’s response is over here.

Lindy West was born an unremarkable female baby in Seattle, Washington. The former Stranger writer covered movies, movie stars, exclamation points, lady stuff, large frightening fish, and much, much more....

1,400 replies on “Hello, I Am Fat”

  2. This is bullshit. I weighed 238 lbs on Jan 1st, and today I weigh 215. That’s 23 lbs in 6 weeks (actually less than 6).

    It wasn’t even that hard. I quit beer (which I’ve broken like 3 times), I quit fried foods, I quit sweets, and I quit chips/snacks. etc. Then I went running every day (something I’ve never done in my life).

    You can lose weight if you want. You just don’t want to because you’re lazy. I was like that until this year, and I was like “What the fuck, being fat is stupid.”

    You know what tastes better than doughnuts? Not being fat.

  8. Fat Acceptance is your problem, not anyone else’s. Good for you on loving yourself, however it’s not really your place to reject the arguments that being fat a) is unattractive to some, b) is bad for your health, and c) is part of an American epidemic that is driving health care costs through the roof. It is not your place to reject these arguments because a) is not your feeling to accept or reject, and b) and c) are objectively true. The net result of your rant is probably cathartic. Good for you. But “fat acceptance” ends with you. It is in your head – it will hopefully make you feel alright in your body and in your life. Nobody else need accept a fucking thing.

  9. @ #2

    How wonderful for you. How wonderful that this is YOUR experience.

    Now, tell me – I work out five days a week, I don’t drink beer, I don’t eat fried food, and I have maybe one “sweet” a week. Why aren’t I losing weight? Am I just not as awesome as you?

    PS – fuck off.

  14. @ 2, but you don’t know if she’s eating chips, snacks, etc..besides, that’s not the point. The point is exactly as put. It’s her body, & the whole thinly veiled disgust that she’s sensing/dealing with should be addressed.

    @ Lindy, do you have a blog anywhere but here?

    I so <3 you, it’s not funny. BTW. In your other post (RE: Ban Fat Marriage), I slogged (ha) through the Savage Love archives to find examples of Dan talkin’ ’bout obesity. (#79).

    Great photo, Lindy, & cute shirt too.

  22. Lindy, thank you.

    Thank you for being a voice for those who are too scared/shy/embarrassed to stand up for themselves.

    Thank you for calling out the unfair prejudice people face due to their size/weight.

    Thank you for being proud of who you are. I hope you continue to be an advocate for ‘people of size’ (I hate that term but it’s better that ‘fatties’) and remind us that we should be able to come to terms and follow your example.

    You are an inspiration. Thank you.

  23. As a skinny gay man, I just have to say I think you’re absolutely beautiful — not that you needed any validation from me. Just sayin’.

  28. I feel like I need to lose some weight but thanks for making me feel better, not because I agree with you that it is ok to be morbidly obese, but because I realized that I am 6 inches taller than you and weigh far less. I feel good about myself by comparison to your fat ass and that is a great way to start the weekend.

    p.s. you can easily lose weight by not eating so god damn much and getting some exercise, you just have to decide to do it like quitting smoking.

  29. Amen Lindy. I wish I could have read this post when I was in grades 5-9. I used cry almost every day in the shower. My mom threatened to take me to a therapist (the family couldn’t afford). All because people called me “bubble butt”

  31. @2 Let’s check in with you in about a year. Thanks. ha ha! Why do you think people call it a roller coaster? Guaranteed you will weigh more than you started out before you lost… Ok yeah it can be done, but, it is really rare to keep it off.

    I love how skinny people think fat is lack-of-will and how ripped muscular people think skinny is unmotivated and how heteros think that gay is a choice. And the world goes round… ( : =

  33. Bra-fucking-vo.

    I already knew you were awesome, and taking on your boss for his hypocrisy just makes you that much more awesome. Are you taking applications for best friend?

  34. Yet somehow all these fatties didn’t exist to console each other in their fatness until we started getting stuffed with processed foods and sugary shit.

    There is absolutely no way 5’9″ 263lbs is acceptable and this is a classic example of not thinking you can fix it because you don’t know how to fix it.

    Here is a tip: stop reviewing burger joints!
    http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/uneed&hellip;

    U certainly didn’t “needa” burger.

    “Oh, and also, aside from the chocolate milk shake (AWESOME, even though it was technically a black-and-white, which I usually do NOT condone), everything else was kind of legit gross. Onion rings ($4) were battered so thickly they resembled Krispy Kreme doughnuts with a fryer-fat glaze of visible grease. And a small Cobb salad ($5)—despite a promising abundance of hard-boiled egg—was weirdly both sweet and bitter, with a dressing reminiscent of frozen Minute Maid lemonade concentrate. We picked out the bacon and left the rest. But you know what? Guess how much I cared? Zero. Zero much. I am smitten with another.”

    Gross.

  35. @ 9 – Being too fat is unhealthy. But you make other people not finding it attractive problem #1 on your list. It is totally anyone’s place to give to not give a damn whether you find them attractive or not. What an egotistical bastard you must be.

    All the other things folks have said about fat on this blog in the past 48 hours – wahh! I’m touching a fat body on an airplane! wahh! Looking at fat people is icky! – is self-absorbed bullshit.

    The health problems of obesity are worth discussing in a serious, non neener neener fatty, kinda way. But part of living in the world is occasionally seeing & being put into contact with people you wouldn’t have chosen to. Grow up.

  36. @15
    Look, I love Lindy as much as anyone, she is 95% the reason I come to this site (the rest being Mudede).

    My point is: you don’t get to say “Being fat is like being gay” when in reality you have complete control over being fat.

    PS @10 You are clearly not as awesome as I am. What a dumb question. Also, I won’t fuck off because this is the internet, silly!

  40. Lindy, my entire life would be different if my family had encouraged me to feel this way. It doesn’t matter that they didn’t, because I figured that shit out. And I am THRILLED that you have, too. And now, BECAUSE OF YOU, other people will, too. Rock it, girl.

  41. And today is the day that Lindy West totally pwn’d her boss. (And the day she made me use the word “pwn” – I can’t forgive her for that.)

    You rock, Lindy.

  45. You’re a great writer, Lindy, but I’m going to disagree with you.

    It is not paternalistic, antrho-chauvo-swinocentric, or anything else to find rolls of fat unsightly. Most people feel this way, in the same way that most people find open sores unsightly. Maybe they’re wrong to do so. But it is, bottom line, a statement of fact (inasmuch as a “fact” for a word like “unsightly” is inherently subjective).

    Be fat. Enjoy it. Awesome! It’s going to be downright attractive to some people, especially with your intelligence and personality. But the rest of us have no obligation to pretend to find fat people attractive when, in fact, we do not. It is unfortunate that there is social pressure on children to conform to fitness norms… in the same way it is unfortunate that there is social pressure to brush your hair and teeth.

    And please wait to compare fat people to gays until you aren’t allowed to marry. Most gay people don’t care if some jerk in Alabama thinks they’re going to hell. Gay rights are about equal protections under the law, not muzzling people who find homosexuality offensive. I hope the number of people who feel that way declines over time, just as I genuinely hope the number of people who find fat people to be unattractive declines. But in the meantime, I would never presume to tell those people that they can’t speak their honest mind because it violates our right to approval.

  50. Hi Lindy. Thanks for posting this. You look so cute in that picture!

    Although I am not fat, there is a part of me in my brain that tells me I’m fat every single day. Guess what? Sometimes it wins and I feel like a piece of shit. And sometimes the old bulimia comes back.

    Guess what else? Sometimes there are affirming voices like yours that say “No, you’re fine. Go do what you’re good at and wear clothes you like, regardless of the number on the tag. Be like Lindy West, who does what she is good at (making jokes! eating burgers! whatever).

    So thanks again.

  51. Seriously. I adore and admire you.

    And yeah, there does need to be more of a FUCK OFF approach to dealing with the trolls (and Dan, whom I love). It is too easy to loose sight of the point (dignity and joy) and get caught arguing on their terms. You are my favorite. Hands down. My boyfriend and I read your reviews aloud to each other as soon as you post them. And although I’m sure the shitstorm will be kind of heartbreaking, at least for me, thank you so much for going for it. Seriously. Really admirable. Really impressive. And very kind. Wow.

  53. I’m both fat and lazy, so I probably shouldn’t open my mouth. But DAMN you are lookin hot in that photo. Just sayin. Life is too fucking short to worry about other people talking shit.

  56. Yet somehow all these fatties didn’t exist to console each other in their fatness until we started getting stuffed with processed foods and sugary shit.

    There is absolutely no way 5’9″ 263lbs is acceptable and this is a classic example of not thinking you can fix it because you don’t know how to fix it.

    Here is a tip: stop reviewing burger joints!
    http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/uneed…

    “U” certainly didn’t “needa” burger.

    “Oh, and also, aside from the chocolate milk shake (AWESOME, even though it was technically a black-and-white, which I usually do NOT condone), everything else was kind of legit gross. Onion rings ($4) were battered so thickly they resembled Krispy Kreme doughnuts with a fryer-fat glaze of visible grease. And a small Cobb salad ($5)—despite a promising abundance of hard-boiled egg—was weirdly both sweet and bitter, with a dressing reminiscent of frozen Minute Maid lemonade concentrate. We picked out the bacon and left the rest. But you know what? Guess how much I cared? Zero. Zero much. I am smitten with another.”

    Gross.

  57. Lindy, you’ve got balls. Love it! Also, I think you look put-together and amazing! This was fantastic.

    I’m a regular reader (and almost-never commenter) and Dan’s posts drive me crazy, but I chalk them up to him needing to grow up a little and having insecurities about himself and his own appearance. That doesn’t make it right, though, and I find it alienating as a reader.

  60. Note to Ms. West: KUDOS TO YOU and BALLS TO DAN SAVAGE!!! Your writing usually annoys the hell out of me but this nearly brought me to tears. As a gay man on the larger side of HWP I struggle with the same issues and unfortunately haven’t empowered myself to give up the impossible high-standards set by the media and body-fascist queens like Savage. This gives me hope and heart. Thanks!

  62. Lindy – I didn’t want to bother you on Sunday night at the Sasquatch Launch Party, (mostly because I don’t know you) but if I did it would have been to say that your dress was aweseome and you wore it beautifully.

  63. All the haters are missing the point – whether “being fat is a choice” or not, it’s no ones fucking business what other people put in their bodies. Whether it’s cake in your mouth or a cock in your ass, it’s no one else’s place to give a shit one way or another. DUH. By the way, I am not fat, though at 125 lbs I am frequently made to feel that way.

  65. Sock it to ‘im, sister! For an encore can you get him to shut up about pitbulls already?

    @46 It was Dan that started the gay-fat comparison, yo.

  67. Lindy hasn’t responded, but don’t worry. She’s busy downing a huge burger, some onion rings, a milkshake, and an order of fries. Once she finishes she’ll be back to comment on why she has tried and failed to lose weight.

  68. Beautiful. In body and spirit.

    To me, it’s like safe sex. Once the public service message is out there about healthy eating, everyone should just pay attention to their own bodies, and not judge other people for theirs.

  69. Dear Lindy: You are rad and awesome and hot and smart. A big “FUCK YEAH” to you!

    And a big “FUCK YOU” to #2, #29 and especially #46, and anyone else missing the point. SERIOUSLY: OPEN SORES?! I call insane troll logic.

  71. @36: >> But you make other people not finding it attractive problem #1 on your list.

    Not my ordering. It was a direct response to the OP’s 1/2/3/4 list. I didn’t address 4, but #1 was shaming someone for daring to say that rolls of exposed flesh was “unsightly.” Tough shit if that hurts Lindy’s feelings — that’s something that turns that person off, and she’s gotta deal.

    >>But part of living in the world is occasionally seeing & being put into contact with people you wouldn’t have chosen to. Grow up.

    Yeah, people like those who say “ewwww.” When it comes to attraction, fat non-acceptance is exactly as valid as fat acceptance. The important battle that overweight people should be fighting is the one against themselves — their self-talk, their self-hatred. That’s the utility in “fat acceptance.” The outward-pointing rage? That can fuck right off. Being fat is not rocket science: barring the very slim (lol) minority with thyroid/medical problems, it’s a matter of caloric imbalance, brought on by impulsive eating habits and their lack of activity. It isn’t anyone else’s problem. This is the woman who reviews burger joints and eats beef served between two halves of a Krispy Kreme donut. I doubt very much that “sorry I reject your ewwww” is a more defensible denial of someone’s right to be who they are than someone’s preference not to witness exposed flesh rolls. It might feel good to pretend that it is, but it is valid to be repulsed if that is their reaction.

  72. @36: >> But you make other people not finding it attractive problem #1 on your list.

    Not my ordering. It was a direct response to the OP’s 1/2/3/4 list. I didn’t address 4, but #1 was shaming someone for daring to say that rolls of exposed flesh was “unsightly.” Tough shit if that hurts Lindy’s feelings — that’s something that turns that person off, and she’s gotta deal.

    >>But part of living in the world is occasionally seeing & being put into contact with people you wouldn’t have chosen to. Grow up.

    Yeah, people like those who say “ewwww.” When it comes to attraction, fat non-acceptance is exactly as valid as fat acceptance. The important battle that overweight people should be fighting is the one against themselves — their self-talk, their self-hatred. That’s the utility in “fat acceptance.” The outward-pointing rage? That can fuck right off. Being fat is not rocket science: barring the very slim (lol) minority with thyroid/medical problems, it’s a matter of caloric imbalance, brought on by impulsive eating habits and their lack of activity. It isn’t anyone else’s problem. This is the woman who reviews burger joints and eats beef served between two halves of a Krispy Kreme donut. I doubt very much that “sorry I reject your ewwww” is a more defensible denial of someone’s right to be who they are than someone’s preference not to witness exposed flesh rolls. It might feel good to pretend that it is, but it is valid to be repulsed if that is their reaction.

  76. I keep on trying to think of something pithy to say, but I’ll just say this:

    1. Awesome, awesome post.
    2. You are a very beautiful woman.

  78. lindy – i didn’t think i can love you more than i already did. in fact, my husband has always been pretty jealous of how much i have loved the words you put on the page. but now i really want you to be my imaginary girlfriend <3

  79. Lindy is right, Dan is wrong. I’m forwarding this to my little sister who is struggles with her weight. I hope it will help her know that it gets better.

  82. i don’t care if you are fat. just keep your fat in your own airplane/bus/movie theater seat or buy two.

    i am skinny and i want that space. it’s mine and i paid for it and your matronly, batwing upper arm rolls need to stay on your side of the armrest. if you want more space either lose some density or buy a second seat.

    you do that and you can be as fat as you want, i don’t care deal?

    also, perhaps your mental health would be better if you didn’t have to spend all your time coming up with excuses as to why you are happy being fat. your health – and my insurance premiums – will only get better if you put down the krisy kremes. that’s a fact.

    but again, if you want to be fat, go for it. that’s your business.

    (i do, however, agree that “rolls of exposed flesh are unsightly” is totally NOT a fact and any idiot who writes a column dedicated to sexual fetishes should know that…)

  83. Well said.

    I don’t think we have an obesity epidemic as much as we have a poor health problem. People do not get enough exercise, or eat the right foods, or take care of themselves. Sure some of those people are fat, but a lot are thin. Focusing on weight as the issue misses the point that it is not really how much someone weighs that matters, but their overall level of health.

    But when it gets right down to it, while we can help people make better choices or address how areas of low socio-economic status tend to be less walkable and have fewer parks, sometimes people want to make the choices they do and thats their right.

    I mean what business of mine why someone weighs what they do. If they really like food and find it a fine trade off, good for them! If they just have a naturally larger body, good for them! I’m bit on the heavy side myself from a combination of those two things. I’ll never be thin, but I also know that I certainly do not always eat a healthy diet and could stand a bit more exercise.

  85. i don’t care if you are fat. just keep your fat in your own airplane/bus/movie theater seat or buy two.

    i am skinny and i want that space. it’s mine and i paid for it and your matronly, batwing upper arm rolls need to stay on your side of the armrest. if you want more space either lose some density or buy a second seat.

    you do that and you can be as fat as you want, i don’t care deal?

    also, perhaps your mental health would be better if you didn’t have to spend all your time coming up with excuses as to why you are happy being fat. your health – and my insurance premiums – will only get better if you put down the krisy kremes. that’s a fact.

    but again, if you want to be fat, go for it. that’s your business.

    (i do, however, agree that “rolls of exposed flesh are unsightly” is totally NOT a fact and any idiot who writes a column dedicated to sexual fetishes should know that…)

  88. Lindy, you are amazing. How did you get inside my head? How many times have I caught myself thinking “when I’m thinner, I’ll be able to xyz.” It’s all bullshit.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you, for putting this into words, in a way I never could. Let me say it again: you are AMAZING.

  90. My roommate and I are the same size. She works out for an hour everyday (I walk to and from work…does that count?) and eats much healthier than I do.

    When I swam for two hours almost everyday, I was only one size smaller than I am when I don’t exercise at all.

    Human variation, genes, etcetera. Small sample size, yes. But it’s enough to remind me not to judge others’ sizes.

  91. My daughter says things about weight that trouble me. She’s 8, and worried about her outward appearance. She eats healthy food, and gets exercise, and I tell her that as long as she’s healthy, that’s what matters, not what her size is.

    I’m going to have her read this tonight. Thank you, Lindy.

  92. @64 and it’s nobody’s business what comes out of anyone elses mouth either, be it fat bashing or fat defending. We can put what we want in our mouths and we can also talk shit about fat people. remember 3rd grade a la “It’s a free country!” ?

  94. Wow! Can I just add that, though I love Dan’s work, I’ve often felt that he had a big blind spot in this regard. And you really, really nailed him on it. Dan’s such a strong voice for acceptance and understanding in so many areas, but I’d been feeling for a while that his hypocrisy on this matter might just “ruin” him for me.

    None of us are perfect. There is no such thing as a perfect state of grace in terms of being accepting of all. We all seem to have an irrational “ewwwwww” or two in us. Maybe your post will help Dan get over his moralistic loathing of fat? I sure hope so.

    And one more vote in the ‘Lindy is Foxy’ column, please?

  96. Lindy, I have not always liked your writing–I have often not liked your writing–but you won 100% of my support with this. This eloquently states why Dan, @2, society, et al, are full of fucking bullshit. This is exactly what I’ve wanted to say for a long time. Thank you.

  100. Even though Dan Savage and the rest of the confirmed fatphobes will no doubt maintain their “My mind is made up, so don’t confuse me with the facts!” position, I applaud you for saying what you’ve said here. Somebody needs to speak truth to ignorant, rock-headed power, even if it’s covering its ears and chanting “LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-L-I-CAN’T-HEAR-YOU!!!!!”

  102. All I can say about the photo of Lindy, in my sexist non fat acceptance way, you are attractive, and would be much more so if you lost about 100lbs..

    Do women have a more difficult time in losing weight than men? yes they do. However sticking to a program and not looking at crash diets and intense exercise are the answers as much as eating better, exercising regularly and looking not “dieting” but eating better, while keeping one’s caloric intake under 2000 calories will help.

    I try to be fat acceptance, and I have battle my own weight problems in the past, but I found eat better, and daily exercise will shed the kilos. When the next post is about the hamburgers you are eating, there is a problem.

    I think Lindy can lose the weight, and it should start now.

    I am not trying to be mean. If I wanted to be mean, I would say to Lindy to continue with your status quo.

  103. If anyone wants to listen to a radio documentary about this kind of thing, you gotta check out, Thinness and Salvation:

    http://www.thirdcoastfestival.org/librar&hellip;

    It’s pretty clear that Americans are fixated on fat. But conversations about weight are often about much more than health; they’re about deeper personal, social, and political questions. In Thinness and Salvation independent producer Sarah Yahm interviews everyone from Christian dieters to California foodies to fat activists and tries to untangle what we talk about when we talk about fat.

  104. @93, you idiot: “It’s a free country” means that the rest of us are also free to point out what a douchebag you are, and talk shit about YOU. “It’s nobody’s business what comes out of anyone elses [sic] mouth?!?!!?” It’s a BLOG, and these are COMMENTS.Your ass is a hat, and you wear it proudly.

  105. Being excessively skinny or excessively overweight is bad for your health. No reasonable person should disagree with this (and so far as I can tell, Lindy isn’t).

    Dan stating that rolls of exposed flesh are unsightly isn’t a fact. If he had instead said “many people find exposed rolls of flesh unsightly,” it wouldn’t be polite, but I would agree. That’s neither here nor there really.

    Losing weight is possible for any of us. It is far more difficult for some than others, but it is possible for anyone. I used to be overweight and managed to get thin. It was my choice and I’m glad that I made it, and I’m glad that I continue to make it. It requires sacrifice, working out 20 hours/week on top of a full time job eliminates the opportunity to do a lot of other things that I would enjoy. That probably sounds miserable to a lot of you and that is OK, it is my choice, and I enjoy it.

    My point is that it is a choice, and it is a choice that each of us is free to make. If someone makes choices that lead to being overweight I fully endorse and support their right to do so, I simply ask that it be acknowledged as a choice. Take ownership of who you choose to be. Lindy, you choose to be the fantastic beautiful funny person that you are. I’m happy for you.

  109. THANK YOU for saying what so many of us have said to our computer screen, but not to Dan (and others who think like him) directly. I love Dan–I truly do–but his sizest comments have upset me for quite some time. As a Seattlite and regular SLOG reader, I have often been tempted to drop by one of the Slog Happy Hours or partake in the various activities that Dan hosts around town. In almost every instance, however, I picture Dan greeting me with a smile and internally telling himself how disgusted he is to see “my rolls of fat.” That alone, leads me to scratch Stranger outings off my list. Yes, I could just suck it up and go–but I respect Dan and applaud the work he’s doing in terms of gay rights/sex education–and there is nothing worse than being judged by someone you look up to. So thanks Lindy, for speaking out and for clearly articulating what a number of us non-skinny SLOG readers have been thinking/feeling for years.

  110. I am going to print this shit out and tape it right next to my mirror, is what I am going to do. Lindy, how did you get so awesome? Are you going to be teaching courses in this anytime soon? Because if so, I would like to get a leg up on studying for the entrance exam, which I’m assuming involves some kind of flaming-javelin target competition.

  112. Lindy, this is awesome.

    I’m one of those people with a thyroid condition (and one that isn’t 100% helped by medication because my body as trouble absorbing the medication) who, despite eating well and exercising regularly (1-1.5 hours in the gym five days a week), will always be fat. At one point in time, I was so desperate that I was hardly eating anything but a tiny salad twice a day (I found out later that I was clinically undernourished), and not losing a pound.

    Now, people don’t see all that just looking at me. People see fat, and assume they have the right to judge my moral character, my intelligence, and my worthiness to breathe the same rarified air that they do.

    Dan, I love you, but you have a blind spot in this one area. We all have them – mine is people who are motivated primarily by money. I judge them, their moral character, and their right to breathe the same rarified air as me. I admit it.

    Admit your blind spot. I for one won’t think any less of you as a person.

  113. I know lots of people who feel the same way not about being overweight, but about being obnoxious pricks. That’s fine, but just as you have the right to eat or act the way you like, everybody else has the right to have whatever opinion of you they want.

    Not that it should matter to you but you don’t look near that heavy.

  115. I was fat. I was unhappy. A lot of this was prescribed to me by society, sure; I felt I was invisible to a lot of people. I was a thin child, a chubby adolescent, & at 19 was 200+ pounds. I, too, spent many nights wishing away my excess body weight. I tried silly diets or bogus workout regimens, without luck. I was sick. I moved to Seattle four years ago with romantic notions of starting over. So I did. I stopped drinking soda, eating whatever the hell I wanted (I love sugar & carbs, it’s true.) I started taking the stairs. I didn’t have a television or a car, so I walked everywhere–I had a whole new city to explore. I worked out five times a week, merely an hour out of a time. I pushed myself but I never killed myself at the gym. My workouts also included dancing poorly, hiking, playing in the park, swimming. I never starved myself. I learned the value of home-cooked, well-thought out meals. A year later, I had lost 60 pounds. I was fit, which is different than being just thin. I had more energy, felt better about myself, & saw my health improve dramatically. Since then, I’ve also been too thin. Going to school fulltime & working fulltime, I depleted my energy & didn’t fit enough meals or workouts into my day, & I dwindled. This felt terrible. This is when I got the most compliments, of course. Let it be known: “You are so skinny” should not equate to “You are so pretty.” My weight has fluctuated a little since I lost the bulk of the weight, depending on how well I treat my body. Weight shouldn’t be an absolute indicator of health. But health & well-being is important. I’m glad I didn’t accept my weight as was four years ago. I was filling my body with junk for no reason. Weight should never enslave anybody. Being too skinny or too heavy isn’t healthy either way. There are a lot of terrible messages out there that confuse this message. You should never measure yourself solely by the number on the scale, but how it truly feels to be inside of that body.

  116. @110: Yes! Same here! Slog Happy is one of those things that sounds like fun, but wouldn’t dare do while packing extra pounds, for exactly the same reason.

  117. I do have to love how people think their own experiences are universal. I’m not obese or anything, but I do have to watch what I eat or I will blow up like a balloon. I have skinny friends who eat MUCH more than I do (of the same type of foods I eat), who are convinced that I must eat at lot more than they do.

    @103 (and all the others with similar comments) – it’s possible that Lindy does not care what you think.

  118. Fabulous! Thank you Lindy!

    I have a big ol’ girl crush on Dan Savage but one thing I’ve never been able to get past his is fat-bashing, which he claims is not fat-bashing. I have never understood how such a smart, insightful man could not see how his writing about this harms people.

    Congrats on being BRAVE and UNSTOPPABLE and writing the truth. You’re my hero!

  119. Oh Lindy. we all know you’re too good for the Stranger, but I’m gonna miss you when you go. This brought tears to my eyes. Thank you.

  121. I’ve been “overweight” since I was 10 years old. When I was in the 5th grade my mother, who we later came to conclusion was projecting her own insecurities, began commenting on my inability to fit into the same size clothes as everyone else. By the time 6th grade rolled around, I was on a 1000 calorie diet. I want you to imagine that. A growing young girl, an obvious early developer (I was 4” taller than any other girl), and a shy thing living in Southern California, denied proper nutrition out of guilt and shame over my body. For all the “health” b.s. you’d like to throw at me, I was on a swim team, played sports, and only had a sweet tooth (BECAUSE I WAS A CHILD).

    After that I was crippled. My emotions, insecurities, health, and self image were a vile wreck. I could not walk into a shopping mall without breaking down into tears. Sobbing in the dressing room was a normal occurrence. I assumed all boys found me revolting, never finding out until later that 80% of it was self-projected. If I showed you a picture of myself at this time, you would wonder why. I was 13, but I looked like a curvaceous 16 year old. I was 5′ 11”, size 8, and 38DD. Sure. I was abnormal for my age group, but I was normal for a fully developed human being. Which it turned out later, after I binged in secret from my mother out of rage and shame, after I learned the art of lying and deceit to steal money for extra food, that if my mother (who was at a very healthy weight and simply had insecurities) had simply removed a bit of chocolate to keep me balanced, I would have been absolutely normal by the time the rest of the girls caught up.

    To this day, despite the extra poundage, I am in good shape. My blood work comes back fine, I got a breast reduction to ease lower back pains, I can climb any mountain or stairs without dying, and I’m much stronger than most people I know. I am 250 pounds. I am proud that I managed to pull myself back from years of depression and loathing to a point where I can at least function. (Malls can still be daunting)

    I don’t expect anyone to find me attractive, and am always surprised when someone does. My body image is still screwed up, but I’m working on it. Like Lindy said, it’s mine and it’s not fair to make me feel like scum because it’s somehow revolting you. Look away and leave me alone. But if you’re wondering why someone who is overweight gets really emotional when you trot them out as some kind of whipping stick, this is why. Sure, obesity is something many people can change, and sure, there are many health risks attributed to it, but pulling up one hated/feared/oppressed group of people to defend your own group is a shit tactic. “Well if they hate US, they should hate THEM”. In a community of acceptance and understanding, the ideal is realizing every case is different. Every person’s reasons, excuses, or genetics are subject to their physical makeup, experiences, and point of view. Many things affect us that are completely out of our control.

    Let gays marry, be accepted and be free. Please leave the overweight folks out of it. It is a completely different and incredibly hurtful issue (I’m sure all my LGBT buddies can sympathize with that feeling).

  122. @37:

    I think you’re only partially right. Genetics has a lot to do with how much fat a person stores. For a person with that genetic predisposition to lose and maintain a thin person’s weight is very hard to do. I did it once, and it took 6 hours of exercise a day along with a very strict diet.

  126. Fuckin hell! I think I gained weight looking at that shit. I suppose you can be comforted in knowing that you’d survive a fire…even if you didn’t escape for like five hours. And you must save a bunch of money on winter clothes.

  127. Considering that weight is the number 1 killer of Americans,as it has been linked to cancers, diabetes, heart disease, alzheimers and the list goes on! So yes, while carrying around that extra weight is YOUR choice, it impacts MY wallet as a result of the rising cost of health care. People that are overweight cause ENORMOUS amounts of local, state and federal tax dollars to go to them directly! You talk about only the Social Acceptance issues, how about the societal issues? How about contributing to the massive rise in healthcare costs? How about the BILLIONS of dollars that go to treat issues related to overweight people, that could go to Children’s healthcare, fighting poverty, education, or transportation? Drop 25 pounds over the course of 1 year, by small steps and small lifestyle changes and you could help others!

  129. Being fat is perfectly acceptable. That said, celebrating your big fat body as a defining character trait is boring. People should be more interesting than that.

  132. As a long-time youth fat (through age 18ish) that got athletic lean (through 25ish) and then got extra-fat (through 35) and is still rather fat (as some of you that have met me can attest, Dom, Fnarf) who is working on getting back to lean and buff state and has seen how people look at you differently from both sides–even your friends–cheers, Lindy. I will say though, in slightly contrary tones to yours, that we should applaud who we are, but it’s more important to applaud what we can be.

    I’m circa 260-270ish I think now myself at functionally 6-foot tall. My goal is and remains at least what I was in my early 20s, wearing 34-36 pants versus 40s and wearing a L-XL t-shirt instead of a XXL. Cheer who really are all day, but we can’t ever, never, ever let is be a crutch or excuse for what we can be. The minute we stop needing and wanting to grow we belong in the dirt.

    Also: eat a goddamn burger whenever you need to. I still do, and am still losing weight along the way. In fact, I’m going to have a goddamn burger tonight at the Pike Bar & Grill.

  133. @ 119, it’s not that Dan writes about obesity. Obesity IS a national health crisis in this country. It’s HOW he says what he says. The “eewww” factor. I presume he wouldn’t say “ewwww” about how unfortunate bad acne is, or short people, or..pick one.

    There are good messages in a lot of Dan’s writing about obesity. I speed-read, & I must read like 20-some blog entries last night (gah). & he’s gotten way better about, for example, guys who like bigger women, & how they deal with that, in his column. But generally that tone – ewwww – kills what nuggets of concern there may be.

    It’s someone’s right to be repulsed by another person, sure. It’s also that person’s right to respond, as Lindy has here, fuck you.

  134. Thanks Lindy, I fought this battle on Slog for many years before giving up. People claim to care about people’s health or health insurance rate, but the bottom line is that they just want to feel superior. They say, “Just stop drinking cokes” and you say “I stopped drinking cokes two years ago.” They say, “Get off your fat ass and go to the gym” and you say “I went to the gym 7 days a week for a year.” You say, “I’m a vegetarian. I haven’t eaten at McDonalds in 20 years.” They say, “Put down the fucking nachos you fat fuck and use the fucking stairs every once in a while.” I tried every kind of rational argument I could think of to point out that fat people try to lose weight, and most of the time fail, but still they try and for their efforts they get nothing but ridicule – even from this posse of nerds, queers, and freaks. In the end, I realized they would only be satisfied if you throw your hands in the air and say, “Fine. I’m fat. I’m disgusting. It’s entirely my own fault. I could be thin, but I choose not to because I love being horrible and disgusting and then playing the victim. I’m so sorry I ever stood up for myself over what is clearly a huge flaw in my very being.” That’s what they want. So, that’s why I stopped arguing.

    I sent Dan an email once, quoting one of the awful, hateful things someone said to me on the comment threads from one of his posts. His reply via email, “I was fat as a teenager, so I know it sucks when people are mean. We’re moving to registered commenting.” He never popped back on the thread to say, “Hey people! Quit being shitty!” It would have made a world of difference. Oh well.

    Thanks again Lindy. Hopefully I won’t have to resist jumping into the fat fight again on slog. We’ll see.

  137. Lindy, you are half right. Dan is also half right.

    You are totally right about the whole shaming thing. It is useless, mean, and counterproductive.

    But a serious discussion can be had about weight. The rate of obesity in this country has been steadily climbing for years. And obesity does increase the risk for diabetes, heart disease, and a host of cancers.

    What I absolutely reject is the argument that heavy people “can’t lose weight”. That is bullshit rationalization. It is certainly true that some people have a much harder time losing weight and keeping it off than others, but anyone can lose weight.

    It isn’t complicated. It is third grade math. People don’t become fat by magic.

    If you consume more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. If you burn more calories than you consume, you will lose weight. There are some other side factors, but the above two sentences are 95% of the battle. The only hard part is that most of us have no idea how many calories we consume on a daily basis, and most of us have little understanding of our own metabolisms and how many calories we burn on any given day. And we don’t care to find out. But I guarantee you that if you burn more calories than you consume, every day, you will lose weight and keep it off.

  139. Thank you, Lindy. You’re one of the funniest writers I’ve ever read, and the same intellect and insight that makes you funny serves you well in your more serious writing. It’s an education to read your work. (Also, you’re amazing on the FilmDrunk podcast.)

  140. I was standing near you at the Bottleneck a couple of weeks ago. I was playing pinball and I didn’t know who you were-only your bad-ass writing. I overheard you tell a story where you mentioned your name. First thought: she is fatter than I imagined in my own little “this is what the people on NPR and people who write for the Stranger look like” world. Second thought: she is hot. Third thought: it must really suck to have Dan Savage as a boss with his fat-hate. I even told a couple people this little vingette. That was before all this.

    It takes true guts to stand up to a hater who happens to be your boss. It takes true guts to tell how much you weigh. It takes guts to write as good as you do. You are a hot lady with a hot mind and you write like I wish I could. Thanks for writing this.

  141. Chiming in to say I used to be fat (and unhealthy) and now I’m thin (and unhealthy), and that the process of losing weight involved a lot of terrible eating decisions, self-obsession, depression, and being incredibly judgmental and dickish to people around me. It’s a feminist success story!

    Fat-shaming is a lot like libertarianism, actually–you act like the people who aren’t doing well by the standards of your ideology are suffering because they’re immoral rather than because of the consequences of what you’re imposing on them.

  143. (D’oh, 135 was @ 73, where the hell did I get 119?)

    So it’d be okay to say – gay people – ewwww? No, it’s only “okay” to say fat people, ewwww.

  144. Also: if you do decide to <– thataway in the size wars, do what the sane people do and gun for the 1-3 pounds a month routine. It’s safer, smarter, and long-term more viable. I’ve did the crash-loss crap once when I was 18. I ran till I literally puked, and in a couple months lost a ton. Then I got it all back, and did it right, and spent 1-2 years losing 40-50 pounds. It stayed off a long while (only coming back when I began smoking again) and I never once even felt starved or unhappy. Anyone who says we need to LOSE IT NOW or any Jillian Michaels-type Biggest Loser bullshit is a lunatic. I’m on like 3-4 year 80+ pound road at the moment. Unless our doctor tells us we need drastic measures or we’re in “trouble”, slow down, enjoy life, eat the good food, and let it sort itself gradually and in the healthiest ways possible.

  146. Lindy, you are a hot babe. I have always thought you were one funny, sexy bitch. I also have a particular fondness for Paul Constant, who has also written about his appearance in the pages of the Stranger. I call him my “Stranger Husband”. I see you both on the street sometime and I feel….weird. Like seeing a celebrity but better. It makes me feel a little smarmy. Fuck smarmy, you’re hot.

  147. Lindy,

    Loving yourself is the best part about being alive. You don’t need to change a thing if you don’t want to. I have struggled with accepting myself and still don’t. I have lost weight and gained it back, but a healthy state of mind might be the hardest thing to accomplish. Go get ’em!

    Also, I think this trumps your “Sex in the City 2” review… by, like, a million times or something.

  148. “Dan stating that rolls of exposed flesh are unsightly isn’t a fact. If he had instead said “many people find exposed rolls of flesh unsightly,” it wouldn’t be polite, but I would agree. That’s neither here nor there really. “

    Yeah, Dan (and you, I presume) would also find a person in a wheelchair, a Little Person, the elderly, etc UNSIGHTLY, but not dare write about it in a nationally syndicated column. . .but those things aren’t a “choice” and therefore off-limits, amIright?

  150. Spokane @118: “I do have to love how people think their own experiences are universal.”

    No shit. Except I do more than marvel at it. It drives me batshit crazy.

    For fuck’s sake people learn to realize that there is a huge difference between individual experience and population level data.

    Just because you lost xx pounds means jack shit to the overall pool. Trotting out your personal story may make you feel righteous, but makes me think think you don’t know the first thing about basic epidemiology and aren’t worth paying any attention to.

  153. Also, “fat size” isn’t indicative of shit beyond the taste of the people looking at you. I had a pretty extensive health review done in January, including a full heart scan, and other things, and despite smoking on and off my whole life and non-stop from late 2000 until January 2010, while carrying as much as 300 pounds at my peak weight, my heart was perfect and my resting heart rate was good, as was my cholesterol, blood sugar, blood pressure–everything. Aside from the extra raw poundage, I was fine. The numbers in fact were nearly unchanged from and a bit better from the last time they were done up circa 2007, when I was really fat and smoked like a chimney.

    That fat person you see on the street may be in better shape than you are.

  154. Oh, Lindy, you had me right up until the end, and then you ruined it by saying that the result of your acceptance of your fat body is that you’re finally losing weight. So I guess the lesson here is that if fat people really started loving their bodies then the weight would magically start to fall off. I know that wasn’t at all your intent, but there it is, right at the end, undermining your entire thesis that weight doesn’t and shouldn’t matter.

    And Lindy, and I mean this kindly, I urge you get your blood sugar tested on a regular basis. You have much the same body shape as I do: busty, slender calves and ankles, excess weight carried above the hips, and when I was your age I weighed 170 lbs (at 5’5″). Ten years later I’m 220 with diabetes. If diabetes isn’t in your genes you’re not likely to develop it until much later in life no matter how much you weigh, but if you have a family history, then you will develop diabetes (or gestational diabetes when pregnant) sooner or later no matter what you do, but delaying the onset is the best thing you can do for yourself and weight does play a huge part in that.

  155. LINKS for @ 147: No problem. (sorry for the repost, folks who read this already in the “RE: Ban Fat Marriage comment thread.) –

    Obesity is something Dan has discussed many times in a thoughtful way, such as this:

    http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/obes…

    That’s a simple truth: better foods – veggies vs. fast food – & working out = weight loss. 100% agree! & obesity is a big problem in the U.S. Where our fast-food eateries go overseas, obesity follows in their wake.

    There’s a buncha times where Dan’s sense of aesthetics seems to outweigh the concern –

    http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Savag…

    This addresses both health issues & “aesthetics” (fat rolls are unsightly, Dan says):

    http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Savag…

    Now, do I think men or women should be wearing fashion crimes against nature? Of course not. But there’s plenty of people who find the sight of two men holding hands, kissing, etc, gross or unsightly to look at. You’d tell ’em to look somewhere else, wouldn’t you?

    This is an interesting piece about how folks in the fat-acceptance movement don’t wanna acknowledge eating disorders:

    http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/10/big_…

    This one points out how f’d up it is that fat folks sometimes have problems getting good quality care from their doctor:

    http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/toda…

    The comment thread on this post (to flabby arms? Sooo ‘funny’!): http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/to_a…

    – contains what I think is the root of most folks’s problem w/ the bitchy tone Dan employs when discussing fat people. Dan asks his readers, frequently, to support gay rights & causes (most folks reading Slog already do, I’d bet). But –

    “Why should I care about gay bashing/hating if gay people like Dan Savage don’t care about bashing/hating on fat people like me? I’m speaking hypothetically of course.
    Posted by Kristin Bell | January 27, 2008 12:25 PM”

    Is the below thoughtful or pointmaking?

    http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…

    Thankfully I couldn’t find that vacation photo of the couple standing in front of Dawn, just the back of them/their asses, in some Midwestern state. (Missouri?) That was way more ha-ha, fatties, than helpful for sure.

    Folks who have read all of Dan’s books point out that obesity runs in his family & he was chubbier as a teenager. This would explain a lot. I feel dan’s heart is in the right place, but the desire to be funny/snarky turns out mean, obscuring any helpfulness to be had.

    If you run “savage” + either obese, fat, fat ass or obesity on the Stranger search engine, you come up w/ an awful lot of hits. I found the mentions to be more balanced than I expected, but there was a lot of ’em, & some were very mean-spirited.

  156. Thanks LIndy – I am by no means a fat acceptance person. I would love to lose weight and have done so over the course of many years only to gain it back thanks to various factors (some of which I will admit have to do with being such an awesome goddamned cook). But I refuse to stop living my life because I’m a little overweight and someone else thinks I shoudl feel shame for that.

    @29 – Lindy is not saying it’s “OK to be morbidly obese.” She spent the first paragraph talking about how she wants to lose weight. One of the points of this post (and a philosophy I’ve held onto dearly through my years of yoyos and various non-weight related sickness) is that we have to live in this moment NOW. So much of the female popular culture for fat women is based on some shit-ass “it Gets Better” philosophy that we need to sit on our asses at home, dress in muu-muus and subject ourselves to public shunning on the streets, just because we’re fat. Fuck that. I want to live my life NOW. And if that means I want to get out have a run, go out and dance, sit down to eat a burger, well then I will. It’s my right and my body. Public shaming does no good for anyone -neither the shame-ee or the shamed. it just keeps our minds trapped in a constant state of schadenfreude that somehow, someone is better than someone else. So don’t think that just accepting where you are at this moment in your life, yet recognizing that you could lose some weight is thinking it “OK to be morbidly obese.” are you that stupid that you can’t understand nuance and have to break everything down as black and white?

    Let’s see the skinny people of the world have to justify to complete strangers what you eat every goddamn day, how much you exercise, blah, blah, blah and see how that feels? And why is it that people don’t question whether skinny (or fat) people do recreational drugs, smoke, drink to excess or just had the bad luck of being born into a genetic history of Heart Disease/High Cholesterol/Diabetes/Arthritis, etc. when they make the health argument? It’s a disconnect – just admit it, you don’t like Fat. Big deal. That’s your problem, not mine.

    Oh, and @2, @9, @29 – you try taking large doses of Prednisone over the course of year and see how much YOU weigh. Sometimes, it really is NOT about eating Big Macs. What a tired, bullshit argument.

    So ask yourself again, why do you have such vitriol for fat people? Oh, right – because you hate fat people! Can’t stand ’em! Yuck! Just admit that and you’ll be so much happier. Like me.

    What Lindy said. FTW.

  158. Let me reiterate. This is not about obesity being “okay” or not. It’s not about comparing the two. It’s about realizing they shouldn’t be compared. It’s about realizing that many people look up to a progressive sexuality hero, and sometimes he needs to own up to the shit he says. It’s about letting go of these rigidly held dogmas that are perpetuated by a broken society and remembering that on the other end of your biting and hateful criticisms, is another human being. Who doesn’t deserve that. Who doesn’t deserve to be dragged out to be stoned because they are gay, fat, irritating, different skin color, sexually promiscuous, hooked on crack, mentally unhinged, or just plain stupid.

  160. Gawd, Lindy, I love you. I would so ask you to marry me, if I were gay… and not already married.

    I truly, truly adore and appreciate you.

  161. I’m 5’5 and 135 pounds — a healthy BMI — but I often feel unhappy with my weight. We live in a society where we’re made to feel like thinness is synonymous with hotness and hotness determines a woman’s value. Even though I know it’s bullshit, I often feel like if I weighed 125 instead of 135, I’d be that much hotter (better). So, you’re right Lindy. Getting skinnier won’t necessarily make you feel better. I’m technically thin and I still have plenty of “fat days”.

    Thanks for this post though.

  162. I have to disagree with one small point in your post, for which I suspect I will get flamed quite a bit… First off, I fully support people eating or exercising or weighing however they’d like, and although I may or may not find overweight or obese people more or less attractive than HWP people, I respect their right to live their lives the way they want. Open criticism by others is rarely helpful, and often quite hurtful. However, what I can’t accept as OK is the airplane dilemma (which is also the bus/theater dilemma).

    If I’ve paid to fly somewhere, I’ve paid a certain ticket price for a certain level of discomfort I’m willing to endure. I’m not rich, so I choose not to pay for the luxurious seats in First Class. Instead, I’ve paid for my little perch in Coach, which is just about big enough to not go insane. However, if an obese person is sitting next to me, I am suppose to politely let them annex as much of my paid space as they feel they need, or else I’m being an asshole. That’s not okay. If you’re on a plane and someone in the seat next to you asked you if they could lay their legs over yours, or lay their head in your lap, you might understandably have a problem with that. The same logic applies if you ask me to deal with your excess fat pushing me up against the fuselage of the plane, or out into the aisle.

    I sympathize, I really do. I’m clinically in the “obese” category right now, and although I carry it well, I can barely fit comfortably into a Coach seat. I don’t have a perfect solution for what is going to be a growing problem for the airlines in the U.S. But I can’t accept that I have to give up half my already minimal personal space so the person next to me can use up 1.5-2 seats for the same cost as I’m paying for what is now 1/2 a seat. I just don’t see how that’s fair, and I just don’t see how that’s okay to expect from others.

  163. I don’t think number two is even a real comment. I run every day for half an hour and have for a year now and believe me, when you start, you can’t just break out running every day! It doesn’t work like that! Besides, you are the exact type of person she is talking to in this article!

    LIndy,

    I”m sure you’ve already heard this a bazillion times but Your points are solid, you covered all grounds, you convinced me and your hilarious.

    I do personally think that being overweight is unhealthy but key words being “I” “I THINK” and “PERSONALLY.” THe point is, your life is none of my business!!! As my life is none of your business.

    And to all those crude people who think it is okay to talk to or about someone overweight like that, we are not just softie hippies telling everyone to get along, YOU ARE CRUDE!!! YOU ARE CAUSING PEOPLE DAMAGE!! STOP IT NOW.

    So to end my rant, Lindy, thanks. Keep writing please.

  164. I’m also kind of curious, looking back on shit like this:
    http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Savag&hellip;

    How is “obesity” being defined here, health-risk wise? I’m 5’3″ and around 180 — so I was “obese” around 10 pounds ago, but I’m not 5’2″, 450. This is what skews obesity data so fucking hard. Not that the 5’2″, 450 pound lady hasn’t necessarily tried to not be 450 pounds, although I wish she’d stop using tired shit like “womyn.”

    And yes, @152! Totally!

  165. I’m pretty sure Lindy isn’t mad at people who don’t find her attractive. I think it’s about people that don’t find her, and other “overweight” people, attractive, having a compulsive need to make the people they don’t find attractive feel terrible about not being attractive to them. I don’t find many so called attractive people attractive, should I attempt to make them feel bad for my objective view? …..and one more time, with feeling……ATTRACTIVE!

    P.S. I’d hit that.

  176. I’m clinically in the “obese” category right now, and although I carry it well, I can barely fit comfortably into a Coach seat.

    I am at 46 percentile for weight for women, 99 percentile for height for women, 28 percentile for weight for women at my age, and I can barely fit comfortably into a US-based airline’s domestic shorthaul economy seat either. Most men and women in North America who have seen me would say I am slim. People who use airline seat dimensions to determine who is fat and who is not are ignorant and/or bonkers.

  180. Lindy,, you started off kicking Dan’s ass, I kept reading, you kept kicking. Good work.

    Lost in the comments along the way a few folks missed the point about “shame” being communicated and how it simply does not help, and can simply hurt.

    At a very basic communications level it appears that Dan simply does not know the audience he is messaging his “shame” toward.

  183. Never knew what you looked like and didn’t care. You are gorgeous. Move to Chicago and marry me?

    Oh, nevermind. I’m only 5’5″… nobody likes short guys.

  184. YAY LINDY!!! MY CAPS LOCK CANNOT DENY YOUR AWESOMENESS.

    And ps. as a med person, I can tell you that I am pretty much in total agreement with you. And it makes me sad that saying to another woman that I am content with my weight, and don’t have strategies (such as drinking cups of hot water) to “reduce cravings” was taken as a radical statement. I’m not even fat! The shame, it infects us all.

  186. I think I get your point. But just so we’re clear, size is supposed to be everyone’s own business right? As is food.

    So if I, personally, want to lose weight, because I feel physically more comfortable and healthier smaller, I shouldn’t be guilted for “buying into” the “framework”. Fact: I feel happier and more comfortable 50 lbs lighter. I shouldn’t have to justify that any more than you have to justify your weight.

    And you may be tired of hearing about food, but food in this country is an major issue. We sell people cheap, crappy, unhealthy food in bulk. And I should be able to talk about that without anyone being catty about it. It is an actual health issue that we subsidize processed corn products in America.

    Thinness CAN be a goal – it just shouldn’t have to be. Basically what I’m saying here is that your own self-love has just a sprinkling of thin-girl hate in there (as does that link you provided at the beginning). Should probably work on that…because as you pointed out to Dan, no one wants to take your side when you’ve been hating on them.

  187. @178: So would you argue that I should happily cede as much of my seat to the person next to me as they wish to take? No one’s arguing that the airline seats are small, but that doesn’t then automatically make it okay to just take the seat of the person next to you. Two wrongs seldom make a right.

  188. Great job Lindy ! I hope this helps young girls reading this . Loved your statement that shame is oppression . You are a beautiful woman , inside and out 🙂

  190. btw I think people are confusing thinness, fatness, and healthiness in here.

    Thin is not healthy, fat is not healthy. And I’m sorry, but 260lbs is not healthy. Maybe you shouldn’t feel ashamed, but you certainly shouldn’t feel happy about it. Get yourself down to a healthy weight and have a long enjoyable life.2 years of hating yourself is worth living an extra 10 years due to a healthy heart, but that’s just me.

    Wouldn’t you like to write for another 10 years?

  192. Lindy, you hit him so hard you knocked ME out. I feel lucky to be here among the first batch of numbnuts who get to read your work these days. Thanks.

  194. I encourage people to try and lose weight if they ask, but there’s a big difference between encouragement and shame, Lindy, you are very correct. Shame is what bullies use to get their kicks.

  195. I don’t understand the justification of being grossly overweight. When I buy a plane ticket, I do not want anyone’s body encroaching on the seat for which I paid good money. I sort of care about your health, but I care more about the costs that are burying the health industry brought on by people who can avoid certain health issues, be it HIV (and I do think there is a HUGE difference between promiscuously fucking without condoms, than being infected by a supposedly monogamous partner, political correctness be damned), cigarette-related illnesses, or obesity. There is not a dichotomy between thin and fat, which is always the red herring fat pride people toss out. Find a healthy weight. Don’t eat crap (the Dorito comment was really stupid if you want to look like someone with a glandular issue), dump the high fructose corn syrup and canola oil. Limit the bob bobs and booze. Fat people ALWAYS claim they don’t eat much (I was married to one of those self-destructive assholes), but they do. They eat like pigs and often drink like sailors.

    You clearly feel you have something to prove, and that is your right. But you come across as angry and bitter. Yes, you are fat. Yes, you CAN do something (other than bariatric surgery, the last resort of the lazy) about it, but you CHOOSE not to. Stop trying to justify your weakness by cussing out those of use who do not want to share our plane, train, or bus seat with you, and who do not want to subsidize your cardiac rehab when the inevitable occurs.

  198. I’m a vegetarian. I have been for 9 years. No meat, no seafood, a few eggs and a tiny bit of dairy (no ice cream). I grow most of my fruits and veggies in my own garden. I do not eat any processed foods. I walk every day (the dog demands 3 miles or else).

    I’m also fat. 5’5″ and 160lbs,

    It’s not fair. IT IS NOT FAIR that a skinny woman can eat a burger, a shake and fries and no one thinks anything of it. But, if I were to eat the same thing, they would look at me with disgust and tell me to put the burger down and get on a treadmill.

  199. I’m a vegetarian. I have been for 9 years. No meat, no seafood, a few eggs and a tiny bit of dairy (no ice cream). I grow most of my fruits and veggies in my own garden. I do not eat any processed foods. I walk every day (the dog demands 3 miles or else).

    I’m also fat. 5’5″ and 160lbs,

    It’s not fair. IT IS NOT FAIR that a skinny woman can eat a burger, a shake and fries and no one thinks anything of it. But, if I were to eat the same thing, they would look at me with disgust and tell me to put the burger down and get on a treadmill.

  202. I am commenting simply so this post can be more commented upon in the “Most Commented Posts” list, above Dan’s.

    Lindy, you are a delight. Once I had just enough time to stop at the Bottleneck Lounge to watch a bit of a World Cup game and you were there. You were sweet to me. Dan is a jerk.

  204. Two points of hypocrisy Ms. West:

    1) You also find “rolls of exposed flesh unsightly”. In the only photo of yourself that you decided to include with you story you are wearing as much clothing to cover up as much of your flesh as is possible without wearing a burka. Your picture is taken from an angle to hide as much of your rear and belly fat as possible and you are wearing a long curve destroying blouse. The only parts of your flesh you are showing are the parts that don’t seem to be the areas where your fat accumulates. If you were proud of the fat parts of your body it would seem that you wouldn’t spend so much time and effort covering them from my eyes.

    2)A much smaller point. I think this was meant as a bit of a flourish when you wrote “But you’re not helping. Shame doesn’t work. Diets don’t work. Shame is a tool of oppression, not change.” Diets as a point of fact do work. Calorie restriction works as a way to both live longer and healthier. I don’t think you meant this as a point of fact, but it’s still a ridiculous thing to say.

    A larger point is also to make sure you realize that having a body issue is an aspect of being human and not just being fat. Fitness models have obvious body issues, body builders have body issues because they don’t believe they are big enough. People who are average have body issues because they are not big nor small enough. It’s not that we are all equal in our body issues but reading your post I know I have thought everything you mentioned went through your mind and I’ve never been over 188lbs. (5’10”)

    I’m also curious if you think shame is a negative emotion to ever have. That in a good world we would never make either ourselves or those with whom we have influence ever feel shame. This seems absolutely horrifying to me. Shame is a powerful and absolutely necessary emotion. There are times when holding your head in your hands and mumbling “what the hell have I done” is the right emotion. Whether shame is an emotion that should be linked to being overweight will probably require more information and research into both how our brains and bodies work, but the emotion itself is necessary and worthwhile.

  206. I wouldn’t call you fat, you’re more “pleasently plump” or “chunky”.

    But Lindy dear, if you are haopy, I am happy.

  211. Dan: I am thoroughly annoyed at having my tame statements of fact—being heavy is a health risk; rolls of exposed flesh are unsightly—characterized as “hate speech.”

    I certainly don’t see the “rolls of flesh” comment as “hate speech” but it’s definitely in poor taste. A person doesn’t have to find an obese person in revealing clothing (or no clothing at all) to be attractive, but they also don’t need to state their personal feeling as if it’s some objective fact.

    139/Reverse Polarity, very well said. I think we live in a culture where few people are willing to own up to their choices. No one ever said that losing weight (or keeping from gaining weight) is easy. But that’s an entirely different matter from saying, or implying, that it’s impossible.

    163/Amanda: We live in a society where we’re made to feel like thinness is synonymous with hotness and hotness determines a woman’s value. Even though I know it’s bullshit, I often feel like if I weighed 125 instead of 135, I’d be that much hotter (better).

    Do men like hot women? Sure. But women aren’t any different. They like hot men. And for many women, how tall a man is determines how hot he is. I get so tired of the female double standard that thinks it’s wrong for men to prefer woman who are slender but sees it as perfectly acceptable for women to prefer men who are tall.

  212. Nothing against any one person, but why the Hell is America one of the fattest nations then? It doesn’t have anything to do with choice? It’s all just “how God made us” and we should just accept it and not try to better ourselves? Come on. We are better than that.

    We all need the ability to critically analyze and address our flaws. I applaud Lindy for realizing that she is, in fact, not flawed, but entirely healthy, and happy. I just wish more obese people would be so critical about their own health.

  215. @184: i think you are onto something there, inasmuch as it can be equally applied to anorexia as well…

    yesh, i know this song and video may be somewhat (very) dated (but, check out the awesome sax solo ya’all),
    INXS – Beautiful Girl —

    still though, it does jerk a tear…. even upon my jaded soul.

  217. I think that both Lindy and Dan have valid points — Lindy is right in saying that talking in an off the cuff way that implies “fat = gross” is hurtful and inconsiderate, and Dan is undeniably correct in his observation of the scientific fact that the US is the fattest country in the world and there are many health problems that often pair with being fat. There’s not one right person here. Some people are fat because they eat too much crappy food, some people are fat because they don’t exercise, and some people are fat for neither of those reasons, but just because that’s their body type. I’m skinny and always have been and I certainly don’t do anything to earn it — anyone that says the shape of your body is 100% up to you is making a broad generalization. I’ve known a couple of fat vegans that ride bikes everywhere — losing weight just didn’t happen for them. But fuck it, they were happy — and healthy. And I’ve known people who lost a bunch of weight and kept it off. There’s more than one kind of person and more than one experience and meaning of fatness.

    It seems (not surprisingly) that the people who are most emotionally charged over this can’t see that it’s an issue which is not black and white, but has gray areas. Dan/Lindy, stop shouting and admit that this is not a simple issue that can be summed up into a soundbite, yeah?

  218. 163 Holy shit, have you seen the Old Spice ads? You cant tell me men aren’t conditioned just as much as women these days.

    And it’s not just about being thin, it;s about being fit. and beautiful. with great hair. and teeth….You have to get over it. We ALL do.

  221. Being fat sucks, for a million reasons. It was easier for me to lose 100+ pounds than it was for me to expect society to change it’s opinions, or for me to change mine.

    I applaud your self-acceptance and rejection of society’s cruelty.

  222. I am sick of the ‘I am just fat. That is just the way I am!’ argument. That is crap and everyone knows it. You can try and try and fail but you are not failing because your fat is different from every other person’s on the planet. You are failing because you are failing. Failing to eat properly or work out with the intensity or way your body needs. Cardio does shit for me (and I hate it but I still do it) but focusing on weights helps fat slide off.

    I am not a small girl in height (5’9″) pants size (10) or stature (broad shoulders, big tits and hips) but I will never, ever lie to myself or the public about why I am voluptuous. I am voluptuous because I choose to be voluptuous. I was skinny for a while but it was SO BORING (and cold) and I craved all those amazing things I used to eat. So I let go of any kind of will I had and gained 25lbs and that was my choice.

    If I had decided to stick with ignoring my sugar addiction (which it is) and stick with salads, veggie proteins and fruits I would have stayed thin. I didn’t so I failed but since I had ‘made’ it to being skinny I realized I had not failed but had made the choice to eat the way I wanted/craved (and in a way that will toooootally give me diabetes). Now I work out, try to eat more veggies, cut out white breads (aside from the Dick’s I eat like every other day) and whatever. Fuck it. I was thin and I failed at it. My body is inclined to sweets because of genetics and upbringing but I am not forced or ‘made’ to be fat by some magical bullshit. Instead of being a victim to outside influences I would be a victim of self-abuse and lack of preservation. That is bullshit.

  224. Jeezis you are only 28? !!!??!
    I’m 45 and I look younger than you. Of course, I’ve been a vegetarian since I was 15 and I have an active lifestyle.

  228. Dan and everyone else can talk about how unsightly it is to look at fat people’s fat – but the FACT is that there are many homophobes, homophobes Dan rails against that think having to look at gay people showing each other affection (or “acting gay”) is unsightly and his opinion on that is for people to get over it. Well, Dan, get over your issues with fat people. Stop bashing fat people. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again SHAME IS NOT GOING TO BRING ABOUT CHANGE WITH REGARD TO THE OBESITY EPIDEMIC. And for everyone who says a fat person can just lose weight they are lazy, well what about all those crazy fucks who say that gay people can overcome their biological perversion and become straight? And what about all the gay people who turn around and get married in heterosexual relationships and have children? What about those people? Were they never gay because they obviously weren’t “born that way”? Are former fat people more valuable people than current fat people? This conversation is so tired and so old and honestly it is just making me so sick of Dan Savage and anyone who is gay. Go fuck your fat hating selves. I don’t care about you or the fact that you don’t have the same rights as other people in this country (or world). Fat people don’t either and you obviously don’t give a shit about them!

  230. Lindy, I’m in awe. I wish I had created something, anything this week as awesome as your post..or this year truthfully. You’re an inspiration. That is exactly the rant I have been trying to compose in mind for the last 20 years.

    Ever since my “good” friend Stanzi sprung a weight loss intervention on me. She had a whole prepared speech about how being fat made my personal weakness visible to everyone and they thought I was a loser. Sat me down in her seedy apt that smelled like cat pee, inches away from her bong, chain-smoking cigs, and lectured me on self improvement.

    Gonna find her dumb ass on the web and send her this post. Oh and Stanzi..all our friends that thought I was a fat loser also thought you were a crazy bitch.

  231. I love this post. I especially love how it calls Dan out on his “I don’t really shame fat people” bullshit.

    While he has a point about how being fat can be detrimental to health, he writes his shit in such an “Ugh Fat People” way. Which, to me, would be fine if he fucking copped to it and owned that shit.

    Own your self. It makes you much more attractive.

  233. Also, being thin has its downsides too.
    I have never been picked on for being fat, I had a couple of remarks about it flung at me in middle school but never had anyone say anything to me. This was all while my face was riddled with horrible acne.

    N E WAY: When I was a size four my tits and hips and ass stuck around which apparently meant I was fair game to any guy with working eyeballs or any guy that sensed a thin chick with tits was near by. I have never in my life experienced the kind of bullying and harassment I was subjected to when I was “hot”.
    Female co-workers and my boyfriends ‘friends’ made remarks about my appearance (from my hair to the way I dressed to my acne to the way I walked) and every time I got something wrong or misspoke they jumped all over me. Male co-workers would stare at my tits, guys at bars would grab my ass or aggressively pursue me, guys walking down the street would shout lewd things at me or follow me for blocks.

    I have never in my life felt as insecure, objectified and picked upon as when I was thin. Now that I am curvy again I am back to being basically a funny ghost that strangers enjoy when I make it known I am around. Which is nice.

  237. the fact that so many people are calling that picture “beautiful” and “hot” validates everything I’ve ever said about the local talent pool

  239. I am blessed with an easy metabolism. I’m 41 yo, 5’4″ and 125 lbs. I eat chocolate every day and pretty much whatever else I want. I love food and wine. I *know* that I am lucky, because I have friends who have shitty metabolisms and therefore struggle with weight, count every calorie and work out constantly. I could never summon the discipline that they have about food and exercise. Having a metabolism that allows one to stay thin with relative ease is like being born white in America. If you don’t realize that you’ve hit the genetic jackpot, you’re blind. So, yeah, people who say it’s all as simple as “calories in/calories out” sound like assholes to me.

    Oh, and you’re 10,000 kinds of awesome, Lindy.

  240. Hi, this is Marilyn Wann. I’ve been a rad fatty since the mid-90s. I say: Wonderful, awesome rant, Lindy! I am so grateful to you because I have gone around and around and around the Dan Savage fat-hate mulberry bush—in person and by email and in print—more than enough times for one life and I am thoroughly delighted to see someone else enjoy a few righteous reels. And in such fabulous style. (Not that I expect any of us freedom-thinking free-range fatties will inspire Dan to diminish his deeply held prejudice.)

    Here’s one argument that works for me, even if I weren’t a rad fatty who has a heartfelt stake in liberating ALL of our asses, fat and thin, from this stupid and needless and seriously unhealthy and unsexy worry about weight:

    Even if weight-loss goals work for a very few, rare people for a while (or even for a long time)…there will still ALWAYS be fat people. Even before HFCS, there were fat people! Ever seen those prehistoric carvings? They’re all of fat people. (Not pregnant, fat!) In the future…wait for it…there will still be fat people!!!

    If you, Dan, or anyone else here, argues that people are not worthy of respect, health, love or lives until we lose weight and become thin, then you are by definition denying the satisfaction of necessary human desires to a significant portion of the people you meet.

    What does that make YOU? As I’ve heard a fjillion times. It’s all about choices.

  241. Did the people making comments like “Sorry, but 260 pounds IS unhealthy” miss the “You’re not my doctor, it’s non of your goddamn business” portion of the article?

    Also, can we please call out the “But women only like tall men, that’s the same thing!” false equivalency bullshit? Short men don’t walk around inundated with messages about how disgusting it is that they’re short. Maybe because short people have longer lifespans than tall people. Because this whole debate is all about HEALTH, AMIRITE?!

  242. Hi, this is Marilyn Wann. I’ve been a rad fatty since the mid-90s. I say: Wonderful, awesome rant, Lindy! I am so grateful to you because I have gone around and around and around the Dan Savage fat-hate mulberry bush—in person and by email and in print—more than enough times for one life and I am thoroughly delighted to see someone else enjoy a few righteous reels. And in such fabulous style. (Not that I expect any of us freedom-thinking free-range fatties will inspire Dan to diminish his deeply held prejudice.)

    Here’s one argument that works for me, even if I weren’t a rad fatty who has a heartfelt stake in liberating ALL of our asses, fat and thin, from this stupid and needless and seriously unhealthy and unsexy worry about weight:

    Even if weight-loss goals work for a very few, rare people for a while (or even for a long time)…there will still ALWAYS be fat people. Even before HFCS, there were fat people! Ever seen those prehistoric carvings? They’re all of fat people. (Not pregnant, fat!) In the future…wait for it…there will still be fat people!!!

    If you, Dan, or anyone else here, argues that people are not worthy of respect, health, love or lives until we lose weight and become thin, then you are by definition denying the satisfaction of necessary human desires to a significant portion of the people you meet.

    What does that make YOU? As I’ve heard a fjillion times. It’s all about choices.

  243. Judging my all the Stranger writers who have left comments on this thing, I’m starting to think that Dan’s fat shaming may be a bigger problem than we might realize.

    I’ll be looking forward to hearing his apology, if he can put his ego away enough to do it. Though, as much as I’m a fan of Dan’s work, I feel as though he’s just going to use this weekend as a chance to think of a seemingly well thought-out response that basically says “I’m right, you’re wrong, AND YOU’RE STILL FAT.”

    Sigh.

    But good on you, Lindy. Left lots of Facebook love to show my gratitude.

  244. I’m a bit late so most everything I wanted to say has already been said, but I will add that Lindy’s not kidding when she says men are attracted to that body. I’d fuck her like crazy. And then I would read her review of my dick, and laugh my ass off.

  245. This is the first time in years that I’ve checked out anything on this site. Lindy, your words make it well worth coming to visit a place I consider the epitome of shit. You are beautiful and brilliant. Good for you.

  246. I stopped reading comments about 3/4 of the way down but up to that point no one had mentioned metabolic disorders which literally do not allow for weight loss without expensive medicinal control or the fact that being extremely thin is just as health risky as being extremely obese. No matter what side of the fence we each stand, I think the point should be 1.) good physical health and 2.) good mental health. Neither is guaranteed to ANYone.

  251. Dearest Lindy,
    I don’t know you, but I know that you are awesome. As a born-Seattleite (although living in San Diego now), I’ve always hated how anti-fat Dan Savage has been… and since I used to LOVE reading all of his stuff, it felt like an extra special slap in the face every time he said something fat-phobic. Anyway, glad to see you’ll be doing some fat-pos blogging around these parts! And super stoked to see you link to Frances’ tumblr! I *love* that girl.
    Lots of internet love!
    <3
    Margitte

  252. @ 213/Roma — You’re delusional if you think men are judged as harshly as women when it comes to physical appearances. I don’t know what to say other than, “Look at the world around you”. The pressure to be thin among women is unparalleled by anything expected of men in the looks department, including measuring up to some ideal height. Post the last headline you saw involving some male celebrity and his height.

  253. Lindy West, I have always read your writing and thought you were one smart lady. Now I am head over heels in smiley joy – you rock. Rock Rock Rock. Thank you.

  254. Not once did Lindy say being overweight is good; not once did she say losing weight is pointless — the last line implies the opposite! — and not once did she claim that people need to withhold their judgments about what is or is not good eating or good health.

    But most naysayers acted like Lindy said or assumed just that. I have to believe it’s because they didn’t like what she actually said: being fat really isn’t any of anyone else’s business, because it’s not a moral failure.

    And if you’re offended by the sight of fat people and feel free to say it them in person or on the internet, that actually IS a moral failure. All else being equal, the fattie you’re shaming is a better person than you. Which, God willing, makes them a happier person than you.

    (Lindy, I’m pretty thin — so let’s meet for drinks & drugs & sex someday before Dan makes inter-weight marriage illegal.) *GRATUITOUS*

  256. There’s something fucked up about the fact that I felt the need to log out of my regular commenter account to comment anonymously, because we can’t have the men of Slog knowing I’m a… can I form the word?… yes, I’m a *fattie*. It would invalidate everything else I’ve ever written here, now wouldn’t it? Anyway, Lindy, your post made me cry. Just a couple of hours ago a guy in the gym (where I was stretching after a run on the treadmill) was staring at me with blatant disgust, just staring and staring like I was a zoo animal or something. I thought, shit, when will I ever get to be a person? But I’m sure Dan Savage has never felt that way, because he was born out, skinny, proud, and accepted. Thank you for speaking the fuck up. If we were gay, and it were legal, I’d want nothing more than to marry you and have your fat, beautiful, brilliant baby.

  260. I know everybody loves you already, but I’m part of everybody too, and I’d like to just register my little reflection of the great light you shine onto the Earth.

  262. Ok, so we get the inevitable “You CAN be skinny, you just need to eat less, exercise more” comments we always see in these debates. It is essentially the same argument Conservatives and Libertarians use about poverty “You could be rich, you just need to work harder and save more”.

    Such an argument is great for people who need to reinforce their sense of superiority over those they berate, but you hardly need a degree in psychology to understand that it’s certainly not going to make the intended target of the remark suddenly go “Oh wow, I totally didn’t know all I needed to was , I’ll totally do that now and everything will be fine”. So please, let’s stop the “I’m only trying to help” bullshit.

    As for Dan. here’s my take on it.

    Dan belongs to group A.
    Lots of people are squicked out by group A, in fact many people outright hate group a and go out of their way to make the lives of members of group A difficult through hurtful words, violence, legal oppression etc. Some people who persecute group A claim to do it out of a desire to help group A members because they can’t possibly be healthy or happy and their lives would instantly be better if they stopped belonging to group A.

    Dan finds this behavior reprehensible and calls out these bullies, oppressors andf haters every chance he gets while starting a project to help young members of group A deal with the negative emotions and self image. I thoroughly applaud his actions in this regard.

    Dan is not a member of group B. Dan finds members of group B disgusting and feels they would be happier and healthier if they were no longer members of group B and will happily tell them so, in a manner that increases shame and damages self image.

    See the disconnect?

  263. Fuck Yeah, Lindy! You fucking ROCK! Thank you for writing this. I’m going to print it out and tape it to my mirror.

    PS- I kinda want to be your intern. Next year, when I move to Seattle, I’m going to camp outside The Stranger office and build myself a fucking willow cabin if that is what it takes.

  264. Andrew- wow, you’ve gone a whole 6 weeks of losing weight. Try maintaining that loss. Come back in a year (when most people have regained) and see what statement you can make.

  266. LINDY WEST! It’s none of my business what you look like. Or it wasn’t until you posted a picture of yourself and gave me like 100 lady boners. But don’t worry! They are respectful lady boners!

    Thank you for being awesome! You don’t have to be but you are anyway and I feel like I owe you for it.

  267. Dear Lindy, it’s good to hear you love yourself and care more about your health and happiness than social approval. My hesitance to fully agree with you (and I say this as a short, heavy woman) is that being overweight is unhealthy, physically and mentally, and that encouraging “fat acceptance” could all too easily give people carrying unhealthy weight an easy out for laziness and surrender.

    Extra weight is as bad for mental as for physical health (I know it has been for me). People SEE first and always will and all the encouragement in the world is not going to stop cruel comments. Overweight kids and teens are ridiculed and shamed and that’s not going away.

    Everyone should love their bodies…enough to see a doctor, get healthy and fun exercise, and care for those bodies so they can reach their best potential. (Much as I dislike running, I’ve shaved off 25 pounds and no longer wheeze when climbing stairs.) Love, just don’t enable.

  268. 214/Christy: So, yeah, people who say it’s all as simple as “calories in/calories out” sound like assholes to me.

    Simple doesn’t mean easy. The way to get to the top of a mountain in the Cascades, for example, is pretty simple: you hike up a trail. But that doesn’t mean it’s easy. It takes a lot of effort.

    For the most part, it really is as simple as calories taken in vs. calories burned. But it’s also simplistic to say that losing weight is easy.

  269. This could easily end up being the most commented on Slog post ever. And if it hadn’t gone up late on Friday, it’d be way higher than it is now.

    I too am struck by the numbers of Stranger staffers chiming in with their support. Great that they have Lindy’s back on this and are not leaving her out on a limb by herself.

    Am really saddened by the folks who say they’ve never attended a Slog Happy because they’re worried that Dan and/or others will see them as fatties (I’ve never attended either, thankfully not due to weight perception issues).

  270. Greatest post ever!!!

    I grew up on Dan’s advice and his fat hatred has always seemed like a slap in the face. Especially in the gay world I live in and he projects.

  271. 1. Sexuality is not a choice.

    2. Height is not a choice.

    3. Metabolic disorders that cause EXTREME weight gain are VERY rare, and are not a choice.

    4. Mental health issues, big tits, small dicks, are not a choice.

    5. I am not mean to fat people. Indeed, I have several beloved friends who are grossly obese. The odds are I will lose them too soon, and their end-game will not be pretty.

    6. So now that Lindy has fallen in love with her body and is losing weight, anyone want to start a pool on either of these possibilities?
    A. She starts eating like crazy because she HATES herself when she isn’t obese, then falls in love with herself again, GAINS weight, ad nauseum.
    B. She finds herself on a cross country flight, middle seat, sandwiched between two passengers with oozing rolls of flab encroaching on her precious space, and finds herself thinking, “Eeeeewwww!”

    I am shocked that so many people think fat pride rocks, that being REALLY fat is just dandy, and that there are so many fat-fetishists out there. Wow…

  272. @ #2, #29, et cetera: My wife eats like a fucking ascetic, exercises regularly, and she doesn’t lose weight. Her sister eats all manner of crap, drinks beer, doesn’t exercise, and is skinny.

    The 2000-calorie-a-day RDA is a myth. (More like a hopeless overgeneralization.) The range in which bodies maintain a basic stasis in weight is incredibly wide. Some people don’t gain weight until they are eating 10,000 calories a day. Some people don’t lose weight until their intake is restricted to 600. Yes, six hundred. That’s less than they were feeding people in fucking Buchenwald. You want to tell somebody they need to be on the Buchenwald diet in order to satisfy your sense of aesthetics?

    Fuck you. No, actually, don’t fuck you. Fucking is for people who deserve something awesome.

  273. Love, love, love this post! If anyone can make Dan see the light, it’s you! It’s because of other fat bloggers like you that I know longer hate the way I look or give a shit about how other people see me. I’m fat. I exercise every day and eat healthy, so I am living proof that fat is not an indicator of health. Not that it even matters, like you say. No one has the right to decide how other people should look.

    <3

  274. IF YOUR BRAIN IS NOT MADE OUT OF PEBBLES FROM THE BOTTOM OF A FISH TANK PLEASE READ THIS.

    Since there’s already 271 comments in this and counting I’m sure this comment will never be read. But as someone who was fat my entire adult life I want to post a response from a different point of view than Lindy’s.

    As I said I was fat my entire adult life until 2009. In 2008 I weighed over 300 lbs (I’m 6’1.) So keep that in mind as you read my response. These numbers have nothing to do with Lindy’s by the way.

    1) Fat is gross. People who are fat and lose weight end up looking better after they lose weight. This is a fact for most people. Maybe it’s not a fact for you, that’s fine. There’s some people who think Kyra Sedgwick is hot too. People are free to be wrong. But rolls of flab are disgusting, and I would much rather sit next to a thin dude than a fat dude on a plane or a bus or anywhere that space is an issue.

    2) Being fat comes from over-indulgence and laziness, which are not good qualities. It’s not like being fat comes from giving too much to charity or from being too smart. It comes from eating too much bad food and sitting on your ass too much. It’s a bad side effect of bad behavior, just like rotting teeth and bad breath from smoking.

    3) Not all skinny people are healthy and not all fat people are about to keel over dead any second, but in general if you are currently fat, and you lose weight via exercise and better eating habits, you will be healthier in the end. Especially if you really change your life and keep up those good habits and don’t just do some stupid ass fad diet.

    4) Being fat is not at all comparable to being LGBT for all but a tiny, tiny minority of people who are overweight due to a rare medical condition. Almost everyone who is fat it’s because they eat too much bad food and sit on their ass too much. It’s not that it’s who they are, it’s what they choose to do. There’s a big difference.

    Here’s the thing, fat people will generally continue to be fat until they sit down and really accept that their condition is a result of their own bad choices. Realize that it’s something that they continue to do themselves day in and day out, in the absence of choosing to do something else. It takes a long time to fix, but it is “easily” (i.e. it’s not brain surgery, it still takes a long time and a lot of effort) fixed if you sit down and recognize what you need to do differently every day for the rest of your life. Skip the ice cream sundae most days. Don’t go for the second enchilada. Go for a walk instead of watching that Jersey Shore marathon. Etc.

    In January 2009 I realized that I was sick of being miserable and out of shape and decided to change it. It took me a long time, a lot of work, and it wasn’t smooth sailing all the way, but by October of 2010 I went from over 300 lbs down to 178 lbs and ran the Detroit Marathon. I’m not superman. I’m no smarter or stronger than anyone else. I just made a choice that I wasn’t going to be that person anymore.

    Do I still have compulsive eating problems? Yep, that’s not going away. It’s something I’m gonna have to be aware of the rest of my life and keep in check. It’s not as bad as it used to be and I know things to do or not do.

    But I also don’t eat a salad or rice cakes for every meal. In fact while I was losing weight I ate an awful lot of fast food. I was just careful about my portions and what I ordered.

    It’s not rocket science. Weight loss is just eating fewer calories than you burn. The problem is we have a huge industry of fad diets and placebo pills that do nothing built up around the issue of weight. What people really need to be told is that there’s no way to lose weight without feeling hungry. You’re going to be hungry. You have to be hungry in order for your body to start burning the fat. That’s the whole point of the fat, it’s there for when you’re hungry and don’t eat food. Duh.

    But being fat is a result of bad choices that are made every day. It’s not something that happened to you when you were a child and now you are coping with it. You are doing it to yourself daily with the continued bad choices, and you can fix it by simply making different choices.

    Now if somebody is happy being fat, that’s great, they should continue living their lives and be happy. But I know I was one of those people who went around saying I didn’t care, and I was fine and accepted myself. But in reality, I was miserable a lot of the time and I’ve been infinitely happier since I got healthy. I would encourage anyone who honestly feels the same to take that first step; go for a walk tomorrow, eat less tomorrow than you did today. Start thinking about eating better and getting rid of the snacks. You can do it.

    I honestly don’t think Lindy’s message of “It’s fine, who cares? Shut up.” is helpful in any way. To me it’s like the people who encourage bareback anal sex among anonymous partners. It’s reckless and irresponsible. I’m not going to say people can’t do it if that’s what they want to do, but I don’t think it’s healthy or smart.

  278. Lindy, I’m bookmarking this and coming back to re-read it everytime the weight of the world’s anti-fat douchebaggery gets too heavy.

    Also, not that you need my validation, but you’re gorgeous.

  280. To all the people saying, “I used to be fat, but I (exercised, dieted, etc.)” — congratulations.
    To all the people who are already thin and just KNOW that “it’s a simple matter of calories” — congratulations.
    To all the people who tried to make this about healthcare premiums, America-bashing, etc. — congratulations.

    All of you missed the point. What is the point? To keep your generalizations, anecdotes, and suggestions to yourself.

    By sharing “advice” when it’s unsolicited, you’re just being a jerk.
    By claiming that you know how someone else’s body works, you’re just being a jerk.
    By asserting that your “East coast mentality” gives you the right to tell others that they’re ugly, you’re just being a jerk.

    Try being polite, instead. We are people, too.

    (Bravo, Lindy.)

  281. Lindy, the most important point you made here — and the one I’d help you defend to the death — is about the needlessness, the hatefulness, of employing cruelty to addressing the issue of obesity. I’ve certainly been guilty of it, more or less as a way of acting out against it being inflicted against me. I wish you peace of mind and happiness.

    And for all you hot gay guys giving the high five to the sassy, zaftig chick: I bet you’ll all go out and bang a guy whose abs don’t show tonight, won’t you. I’m sitting here at the bar right now, waiting for you all to come up and hit on me…

  282. You’re a fucking rockstar, Lindy West. I’m ashamed that it took somebody like you, somebody Seattle knows is a fucking rockstar, saying so to really drive it home that it isn’t anybody’s business what you weigh or what some random jerk on the street weighs or what I weigh, or why. I’m grateful you said it. It’s so self-evidently obvious, though, that I’m kicking myself for not properly realizing it until somebody ELSE said it. Somebody like you, who is a fucking rockstar.How goddamn brainwashed ARE we, as women, to think that everybody we see has the right to judge us?

    Sigh. Thank you lots, Ms. West. Time to start down the long hard road to Deprogrammedville.

  283. I hate everything Lindy West has ever written, ever . . . except this article, which I love.

    But seriously she should do us all a favor and stop writing film reviews.

  284. 254/Amanda, I said that women are no different in that they like hot men just like men like hot women. By “no different”, I didn’t mean that men are judged 100% as harshly by women as women are by men on their physical appearance. I would agree that men care about women’s looks more than vice-versa. But women do care about men’s looks. A lot. A lot more than they let on. And a physical characteristic that matters a great deal to many women is how tall a man is. Furthermore, women judge men more harshly on other factors, such as the type of job a man has or how much money he makes or has, than men do with women so the particular things being judged by each sex differ but the amount of judging is probably about the same.

  285. #273 if sexuality isn’t a choice (in some ways, not all, and i am someone who believes all people should just be able to be with and love whomever they please and everyone else should just mind their own business) please explain homosexuals who then get married in heterosexual relationships and some even have children. were they never gay? did they make a choice to deny their gayness? is sexuality not fluid and more complicated?

    i also think that someone’s weight is their personal business and should be something between themselves and if they choose, their health care providers. why people believe they have a right to constantly point out to fat people that being fat is unhealthy and shame them, taunt them, ostracize them, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum is beyond me!

    gay people like dan savage believe they should have a right to live their lives as they are and without people dictating to them what’s acceptable or right or even palatable. well guess what, fat people should have the same rights!

    this ongoing BS with dan and his finding it OK to dictate to fat people how they should live just shines a big spotlight on what a hypocrite he is. there’s plenty of people out there who hate him because he is gay and want him to live how THEY want him to live. he tells those people to go fuck themselves. well dan, some people would like you to go fuck yourself, too. you cant be an advocate for SOME people’s rights while bashing other people. makes all of your so-called hard work worthless and meaningless because the message is tainted.

    how about all the fat gay people in the world? what should we do to them? is it ok for bullies in school to bully those kids for being fat and shame them so that maybe they’ll lose weight, but not to bully them because they are gay?

  286. nope, sorry. if you really want to be radically empowering, you would not accept the premise that fat people ‘can’t do anything about it’. this simply isn’t true.

    i actually have no problem with your size. i have had very good friends who are very large, and i have also worked with people (drag queens) whose entire livelihood (and fierceness!) is centered around their ‘fatness’.

    however, that doesn’t mean that being fat is not a choice. if you were arguing about being short, tall, having big feet, or wide shoulders, i would agree with you 100%. however, the amount of flesh on our bones is something that we have TOTAL control over, so it’s disingenuous for you to put ‘fat discrimination’ in the same category as other forms of oppression.

    i happen to be very thin and have a very narrow frame. it would be very hard for me to put on enough weight to be considered ‘fat’. however, if i really wanted to achieve it, i could. i would dramatically increase the amount of food that i eat everyday. i would start drinking soda with every meal. i would start eating between meals. i would start consuming much more processed food and stop buying fresh produce. i would always take the elevator and start taking cabs. i could put on substantial amounts of weight if i wanted to, even though it would be a struggle.

    similarly, the overwhelming majority of overweight people could lose lots of weight by doing the inverse of the things that i listed above. (i won’t argue that some people due to medication side effects or hormonal imbalances would have a much much harder time of it than a person without those issues.)

    you (and many other ‘fat acceptance’ advocates) take a false stance by saying ‘i’ve done X Y and Z and i still haven’t lost weight, so that means it’s impossible for me to lose weight at all’. bullshit. if what you’ve done hasn’t worked, that doesn’t mean that nothing else will. for instance, obesity is strictly NOT A PROBLEM in countries plagued with food shortages. obviously, i’m not suggesting it’s a good thing that many people in the developing world don’t have access to a stable food supply, but i AM suggesting that it disproves a lot of the fat acceptance rhetoric.

    finally, your dismissal of the ‘health insurance premium issue’ is really infuriating. being overweight leads to HEALTH PROBLEMS, both small and large. you might not necessarily get diabetes and have high blood pressure or die at a younger age, but just by being overweight, you are at a higher risk for all three. society needs to deal with this issue in a way that is good for our collective and individual health as a nation. to me, the most sensible way to do this is to end subsidies for processed food and commodity farming, to fund small scale produce-centered farming, to mandate urban planning that insures the walkability of communities, and to promote the common sense approach to healthy living (eating real food in moderation and moving your body around keep you in good health) as opposed to promoting lobbyist-crafted miracle cures (fat free everything! exercise while you’re laying down! pills to make you stop eating!) as the answer.

    Keep this in mind– it’s fine for you to accept your body as is, but the rhetoric of the ‘there’s no such thing as overweight’ movement might condemn the next generation to a lifetime of health problems due to generational obesity. An 8 year old with diabetes doesn’t get to choose to embrace his fatness. What he does get is a lifetime of health complications foisted upon him by a culture with its head in the sand.

  287. @276: Read the article. I don’t need to insert the word “again” in there because, quite frankly, you haven’t read it. Period.

    Suggesting that this is a “hooray BBW I’m fabulous where my gays at” post proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that you didn’t even get beyond the first one or two sentences. She hasn’t suggested “it’s fine, who cares? shut up”, she’s saying “I’m quite aware of my body, fuck off”.

    As far as the LGBT commentary goes, it’s ultimately not about comparing a physiological state with a fundamental state of being, it’s about the actual reactions to that state. There is no reasonable argument in “you can lose weight, so my ire is justified”, there is no reasonable argument to use your own aesthetic desires and “types” to shame someone. If you aren’t attracted to someone, if you’re grossed out, keep it to yourself or be prepared to be told to shut the fuck up.

    So, in summation: If you’re going to make a comment as long as the original post, you better fucking read it first.

  289. nope, sorry. if you really want to be radically empowering, you would not accept the premise that fat people ‘can’t do anything about it’. this simply isn’t true.

    i actually have no problem with your size. i have had very good friends who are very large, and i have also worked with people (drag queens) whose entire livelihood (and fierceness!) is centered around their ‘fatness’.

    however, that doesn’t mean that being fat is not a choice. if you were arguing about being short, tall, having big feet, or wide shoulders, i would agree with you 100%. however, the amount of flesh on our bones is something that we have TOTAL control over, so it’s disingenuous for you to put ‘fat discrimination’ in the same category as other forms of oppression.

    i happen to be very thin and have a very narrow frame. it would be very hard for me to put on enough weight to be considered ‘fat’. however, if i really wanted to achieve it, i could. i would dramatically increase the amount of food that i eat everyday. i would start drinking soda with every meal. i would start eating between meals. i would start consuming much more processed food and stop buying fresh produce. i would always take the elevator and start taking cabs. i could put on substantial amounts of weight if i wanted to, even though it would be a struggle.

    similarly, the overwhelming majority of overweight people could lose lots of weight by doing the inverse of the things that i listed above. (i won’t argue that some people due to medication side effects or hormonal imbalances would have a much much harder time of it than a person without those issues.)

    you (and many other ‘fat acceptance’ advocates) take a false stance by saying ‘i’ve done X Y and Z and i still haven’t lost weight, so that means it’s impossible for me to lose weight at all’. bullshit. if what you’ve done hasn’t worked, that doesn’t mean that nothing else will. for instance, obesity is strictly NOT A PROBLEM in countries plagued with food shortages. obviously, i’m not suggesting it’s a good thing that many people in the developing world don’t have access to a stable food supply, but i AM suggesting that it disproves a lot of the fat acceptance rhetoric.

    finally, your dismissal of the ‘health insurance premium issue’ is really infuriating. being overweight leads to HEALTH PROBLEMS, both small and large. you might not necessarily get diabetes and have high blood pressure or die at a younger age, but just by being overweight, you are at a higher risk for all three. society needs to deal with this issue in a way that is good for our collective and individual health as a nation. to me, the most sensible way to do this is to end subsidies for processed food and commodity farming, to fund small scale produce-centered farming, to mandate urban planning that insures the walkability of communities, and to promote the common sense approach to healthy living (eating real food in moderation and moving your body around keep you in good health) as opposed to promoting lobbyist-crafted miracle cures (fat free everything! exercise while you’re laying down! pills to make you stop eating!) as the answer.

    Keep this in mind– it’s fine for you to accept your body as is, but the rhetoric of the ‘there’s no such thing as overweight’ movement might condemn the next generation to a lifetime of health problems due to generational obesity. An 8 year old with diabetes doesn’t get to choose to embrace his fatness. What he does get is a lifetime of health complications foisted upon him by a culture with its head in the sand.

  292. Thank you so much for posting this. I can’t even eloquently describe in words what it means to me… Suffice to say when I was little I never thought anything was wrong with me- until people told me that I was fat and something to be ashamed about.

    Thank you so much for the inspiration.

    xxoo,
    Cat

  293. Thank you so much for posting this. I can’t even eloquently describe in words what it means to me… Suffice to say when I was little I never thought anything was wrong with me- until people told me that I was fat and something to be ashamed about.

    Thank you so much for the inspiration.

    xxoo,
    Cat

  294. one more thought–

    (i know… i’ve already gone on too long…)

    i think the whole exercise cult is basically an enormous racket underwritten by gyms and the weightloss industry. you know what happens when you exercise really hard? you get HUNGRY… you know what happens when you get hungry? you WANT TO EAT… you know what happens when you eat? you GAIN WEIGHT.

    so the best way to strictly lose weight (i’m no talking about getting big muscles, improving cardio health or anything like that…) is to EAT LESS. dramatically increasing your exercise makes that less likely to happen, not more likely, and therefore contributes to the enormous hamster wheel experience that so many people are stuck in while trying to lose weight.

    reducing your calorie intake while maintaining the same level of physical activity will allow you to see the direct relationship between what goes in your mouth and how your body looks. once you reach an equilibrium that makes you happy, increase or decrease the amount of exercise as you see fit, remembering that intense exercise will always require eating more and will thus necessitate a change in diet.

  295. More than your humor, is your candid ability to sum up years (a lifetime, if you will) of emotion into 3 minutes of reading. I love you, and am eternally grateful.

    Love,
    Anna.

  296. Yeah, come on all you “eat less, exercise more” losers.

    Me: 5’3″, 118-130 my whole life. Curvy but definitely slim.

    At 35, tried to get pregnant, did IVF, gained 30 pounds in 3 months. It won’t come off. I’m on thyroid and otherwise addressing the hormonal changes. I eat like an anorexic – tea and a protein shake in the morning, another shake, a couple crackers, or nothing for lunch, soup or skinless chicken for dinner. Minimal carbs, 3 liters of water a day, yadda yadda. Average daily calorie intake hovers around 1100. Yes, every day. Sure, I eat out once in a while. Doesn’t much change my weekly calorie intake.

    I walk 8-10 miles a day, I do P90X, do strength training and go to boot camp and ride a bike and otherwise log a 1500 calorie deficit every damn day. I know because I wear a little dingus on my arm that logs calorie burn. 1500 calorie deficit. Or MORE. EVERY DAY. FOR YEARS.

    GUESS WHAT??? I’m STILL 30 POUNDS OVERWEIGHT.

    OMG.

    Am I fat? No. I’m a solid size 8. But I’m not the weight/appearance/size 6 I used to be, and I’m working out WAY MORE and eating WAY LESS than I ever did when I weighed what some of y’all would think of as ideal.

    Basically my point is…you don’t know why someone is fat. And it’s none of your fucking business. STFU. GTFO. AND MYOFB.

  299. Gee! Mocking a person and assigning “lesser than” status based on a prominent characteristic? Where have we seen this before?

    Faux “concern for your well-being/society’s well-being/blahblahblahblah” = lifelong psychological warfare against people based on their weight, and how present-day society at large rationalizes it, from childhood bullying up to finding “bad examples” to unload one’s anger on as we all get our asses kicked by life one at a time, some choosing to handle it how they’re used to: By being BULLIES. Testify, Lindy.

    A Bear’s advice to an anti-fat homosexual: I am fat, and I am gay, and I’m no more likely to pray away the fat than I am the gay, nor should I be expected to. Accept me and my right to exist and/or get the fuck out of my way.

  300. 264/OnyxStSyr: Ok, so we get the inevitable “You CAN be skinny, you just need to eat less, exercise more” comments we always see in these debates. It is essentially the same argument Conservatives and Libertarians use about poverty “You could be rich, you just need to work harder and save more”.

    How about if we use a different example? Financial planners — no matter what their political persuasion — see people all the time who are in debt because they spend more than they earn. One of the things a financial planner will do is to help create a budget (essentially a “financial diet”) for them and encourage them to stick with it. If this is going to work, what does it require? Discipline. Tough choices. No more freewheeling use of the credit cards. Now, will sticking with a budget make them rich? Of course not. But it will help them reduce their debt. It’s quite analogous to weight & calories. More money coming in than money going out means money saved. The reverse means increased debt. Pretty simple. But simple doesn’t mean easy. Remaining on a budget — especially a budget that doesn’t allow for things you’d love to have or do — is hard. Very hard.

  301. Amen to you….Why should we try to be people we aren’t. I think it is funny that I used to only look at skinny girls and wish to be them, but lately I find myself turning my envy on the full figured women who don’t hide their bodies, but show them off in really nice outfits that scream with personality. They walk around just as confident and sexy as the size zero girls and honestly they are more so. There is nothing ugly about big women. But being ashamed of being a big women is disgusting. We can still wear the pretty clothes they are just a little bigger

  303. @184…dead on. And Lindy? Thanks for speaking for every woman who ever grew up in America, whether fighting her weight because she was too heavy (me) or too thin. We can never be “just right,” can we?

  304. Lindy West, your courage is stunning. I fucking love you for you writing this. And I fucking love the Lindy container for carrying around that amazing fucking Lindy brain.

  305. I am so glad that Lindy is calling out Dan’s crypto-FATcism and hate–btw, Dan, we don’t need to provide links when it’s your fucking MO to resort to calling out fatties when you get bored. He is a hater, he knows it, but I don’t think he has the lucidity or the empathy to admit to it. It’s too easy to look away from your ugliness and live as a righteous fool with your pet cause as your looking glass.

    We’ve had a lot of weight issue focus in slog nowadays, which is good. It IS a health issue. I am of the view that we have a sedentary culture and that it takes a lot of work, and yes, discipline to maintain health. I’ve been back and forth. I am actually thin and well-built but that doesn’t mean I don’t have to watch my tendencies and behavior to keep the pounds off AND that this is all dependent on my personal makeup.

    Thank you Lindy for doing this and I hope this will help Dan, too.

  307. Lindy West: I love you forever, I like you for always and as long as I’m living my favorite Stranger staff member you’ll be. I will literally do anything to tell me to. Literally.

    I wanted to say “FUCK YOU” to a whole bunch of people who said stupid obnoxious bullshit, but it so long to read through the DOZENS OF SUPPORT POSTS that I forgot who they were. People who post anything but love: EAT SHIT AND DIE.

    LIN-DY WEST!!! LIN-DY WEST!!! LIN-DY WEST!!!

  308. For those people who might want to try a simple “calories in/calories out” approach and see where it takes you, I’d recommend http://www.myfitnesspal.com/mobile, mainly because it’s free and fairly straightforward to use. Rather than employing a fad diet, it just tracks your calories and tells you how many you need to eat daily to gain or lose weight. I’ve been using it for about 4 weeks, and have made slow but steady progress. It may not be right for everyone, but it seems like a good way to teach yourself portion control and how to moderate your eating to fit your body’s needs.

    If you do decide to give it a try, send me a private message with any questions, or check out their forums at their web site for all sorts of good, non-judgmental support from other users.

    [Please insert all “you’re going to gain it all back, you asshole” replies here]

  310. You rock, thank you. I’ve entangled myself in heated arguments with people I otherwise like very much, telling them to shut their face on fat-hate. I don’t deal with fat prejucice personally, but I see the effects of a lifetime of weight-loss failure/struggles with my mom and I won’t have *any* stupid-ass comments. You are so right and I applaud you for saying all these things, especially the bit about mental health.

  311. This was fucking rad. I have nothing to add except that I hate Dan Savage when he talks about women and fat people, so it was like a Christmas present to read this. And calling your boss out takes more guts than most people in this shy city have, so I am now your #1 fan.

  312. Andrew, you’re an asshole, and a douchbag, and I hope you get skinny, and fit, and find someone to love you, for your fitness, and you can pretend that you were never fat, and you live in fear of ever gaining back a single pound…. Seriously, douch.

  315. I’m really fascinated by this issue. I’ve read every post and it seems to me that the crux of the conversation comes down to human agency. For every fat person who has commented in support of Lindy’s bravery- for accepting and celebrating her fatness, a condition she deems out of her control- there are a slew of posters who claim to have lost vast amounts of weight. I’m naturally skinny so I honestly don’t know.

  316. Don’t be surprised that Princess Dan and other supposed “A-Gays” pass judgment on weight. Those ladies are blessed with decent genes and can’t ever imagine that the rest of us actually have to work on our weight.

  317. Wow, all the people commenting on her eating a burger, milkshake, fries etc… My entire family eats like this probably 3-4 times a week. My older sister and my mother are both skinny. My brother and I are fat. I eat LESS than them most of the time but still gain weight. I love swimming, walking, playing ACTIVELY with my dogs, dancing etc… But ya know what? I’m still fat. I enjoy eating Green Salads with barely any dressing, but yes, I do occasionally like to have a bit of “junk food” like pretty much everyone else in the world.

    People talk about how it’s affecting your health to be fat, and that’s the only reason they would bother to say anything. But would you go up to some guy drinking beer in a bar and tell him he should stop…for his health? What about a “perfect” little blonde woman indulging in a large size popcorn at a movie, would you tell her that what she’s doing is unhealthy, or even give her that dirty look about how much she is eating? Nope. It’s just fat people usually. Somehow the world thinks it’s okay to approach a total stranger who is fat and tell them that they’d be so pretty if they weren’t so heavy or ask “Are you sure?” when they order something for dessert.

    I am fat. I have tried everything, including prescription diet pills that cost $200 a month, to lose weight. Yes, they worked for the one month I took them because the rare times I was actually able to keep food down it ended up running out of me another way within an hour after eating it. I guess I could get The Surgery, but on top of it costing thousands of dollars, it also greatly endangers your life and makes it impossible to live normally.

    Should I apologize to the world for not measuring up to their standards? I do charity work, I recycle, I rescue animals in need. I keep secrets well and don’t gossip about people. I don’t break laws or even speed while driving. I don’t drink or do drugs. I’m not on welfare. So why is it that I am seen as the worst in society just because I cannot shop at “regular” stores?

  318. @318 How do you know Dan is blessed with decent genes and doesn’t have to work on his weight? Also, using “ladies” as an insult is misogynistic. Pretty hypocritical of you.

  319. Wow, all the people commenting on her eating a burger, milkshake, fries etc… My entire family eats like this probably 3-4 times a week. My older sister and my mother are both skinny. My brother and I are fat. I eat LESS than them most of the time but still gain weight. I love swimming, walking, playing ACTIVELY with my dogs, dancing etc… But ya know what? I’m still fat. I enjoy eating Green Salads with barely any dressing, but yes, I do occasionally like to have a bit of “junk food” like pretty much everyone else in the world.

    People talk about how it’s affecting your health to be fat, and that’s the only reason they would bother to say anything. But would you go up to some guy drinking beer in a bar and tell him he should stop…for his health? What about a “perfect” little blonde woman indulging in a large size popcorn at a movie, would you tell her that what she’s doing is unhealthy, or even give her that dirty look about how much she is eating? Nope. It’s just fat people usually. Somehow the world thinks it’s okay to approach a total stranger who is fat and tell them that they’d be so pretty if they weren’t so heavy or ask “Are you sure?” when they order something for dessert.

    I am fat. I have tried everything, including prescription diet pills that cost $200 a month, to lose weight. Yes, they worked for the one month I took them because the rare times I was actually able to keep food down it ended up running out of me another way within an hour after eating it. I guess I could get The Surgery, but on top of it costing thousands of dollars, it also greatly endangers your life and makes it impossible to live normally.

    Should I apologize to the world for not measuring up to their standards? I do charity work, I recycle, I rescue animals in need. I keep secrets well and don’t gossip about people. I don’t break laws or even speed while driving. I don’t drink or do drugs. I’m not on welfare. So why is it that I am seen as the worst in society just because I cannot shop at “regular” stores?

  320. Thanks so much for this Lindy, you rawk! I wonder if you read the Jan 30 NY Times Week in Review. Frank Bruni, who’s had his own battles with weight, wrote that our obsession with weight and fitness is all Jack LaLanne’s fault!
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/weekin&hellip;

    “What he left behind when he died last week, at the toned old age of 96, was not only a sweaty culture of relentless crunching and spinning but also the notion that fitness equals character, and that self-actualization begins with the self-discipline to get and stay in shape. In the post-LaLanne landscape, it’s not the eyes but the abdominals that are windows to the soul.”

  321. “Accept me and my right to exist and/or get the fuck out of my way.”

    Absolutely. As long as you accept that you DON’T have the right to be considered attractive, healthy, or unobtrusive.

  323. For anyone that has wanted to lose weight and had trouble with diets not working, please take a look at the Paleo diet, also known as the caveman diet. Although, this is truly a lifestyle, not a diet

    Most diets fail because they fail to account for our evolutionary past. Some can still be effective, but will often entail much hunger and often people regain the weight they’ve lost after going off of them.

    Eating as our ancestors did in paleolithic times (before the agricultural revolution brought grains, legumes, and dairy into our diet) works in sync with our bodies, rather than trying to force starvation upon them. Grains, legumes, and dairy have only been in our diets for less than 1% of human existence, and our bodies have not adequately adapted to these foods.

    You wouldn’t feed a tiger cereal, and you wouldn’t feed a rabbit ground beef and expect them to have good health. You would feed these animals the things they eat in the wild, and likewise, you should eat the foods that your ancestors evolved eating.

    I have nothing to gain from this, but I have seen in work in so many that I cannot help but share it.

    The basics are:
    Eat: quality meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, some fruit, and little starch.
    Do NOT Eat: Grains(esp. Wheat), added sugar, legumes(beans, peanuts, etc), refined vegetable oils, and dairy.

    Please, try it for 30 days, if after that you don’t like it, you haven’t lost anything but avoiding certain foods for 30 days, not a big deal. It is not uncommon for people that are overweight to lose 15 or more lbs in this period, without much hunger, and with improved nutrient intake. Most people have dramatic improvements in health markers as well, such as blood lipids, c-reactive protein, fasting insulin levels, HbA1C levels, and nutrient status.

    Here are some resources to help you get started:

    http://robbwolf.com/book-resources/

  324. I am female 5’8″ and prolly weigh less than my housemate female 5’4″. She’s got the back yard of a black person and knockers even the balance. I’ve got boney ass that’ll give you bruses and an A-cup. I also think she is stronger than me.

    In all respects her diet is way healthier than mine in regards to portion size, junk:real-food ratio & alcohol intake (she can’t stand beer and I love it). We prolly get similar amounts of exercize.

  325. I am female 5’8″ and prolly weigh less than my housemate female 5’4″. She’s got the back yard of a black person and knockers even the balance. I’ve got boney ass that’ll give you bruises and an A-cup. I also think she is stronger than me. [the differences go on and on, totally different gene pools]

    In all respects her diet is way healthier than mine in regards to portion size, junk:real-food ratio & alcohol intake (she can’t stand beer and I love it). We prolly get similar amounts of exercize. Neither into sports or reg-exercise but both are non-drivers/non-cycleists.

  327. #57: Fat used to be sexy and a sign of wealth. Go to museum sometime and get a load of Renoir and the sexy bulges and curves that were the subject of artists.

  330. Girl… you’re beautiful. I hate that being healthy is all about a number… My husband is TECHNICALLY a healthy BMI… but he eats like a stereotypical fat person; bacon double cheeseburgers, fried foods, sugary things, etc. And he used to be a couch potato (he’s in the Air Force now so unwillingly he’s done more physical activities).

    Now I’m technically very obese by my BMI… but my diet is MUCH healthier and I’d exercise 2 hours a night. I’ve struggled with my weight all my life. I’m sure if we had our cholesterol and blood pressure checked I’d win that… so people shouldn’t judge us just how we look.

    By the way, I’m 5’6″ and 260lbs currently. And this is me: http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-a&hellip; So fuck you society, I love my body too.

  332. You are gorgeous. You are hilarious. You are witty. You are insightful. You are in possession of a ROCKING set of gams.

    If someone else sees something wrong with your body, they are WRONG. So there. If they can treat their opinions (fat = unsightly) as fact, I can treat my opinion as fact.

    And my opinion is that you are AWESOME AND HOT, so it is now a FACT that you are AWESOME AND HOT.

  333. brava Lindy…there certainly are some misinformed people out there! it’s interesting to me that the most negative you-didn’t-try-hard-enough bullshit came mostly from what i guess to be males…. hello? women’s bodies ARE DIFFERENT!!!! it’s why we are equipped to have children and men are not! Duh! to say nothing of the experimental medicine practiced on women….i am 61; i am a “DES daughter;” i have had multiples cancers, surgeries and no parts left to remove…it also caused some serious heart damage for which i am forever on medications which affect my metabolism….if you don’t know what DES is or what it did to millions of daughters – google it! thanks to paternalistic doctors and flawed research i have weight problems which – read my lips – i CANNOT do anything about beyond a certain level…my metabolism is in constant turmoil, hormones are and always have been totally messed up – i’m fuckin’ lucky i even have one daughter let alone two (besides the five miscarriages i had in-between)….if any of you who have such a judgemental you’re-just-a-loser attitude, perhaps you should extract your feet from your mouths and apologize for you ignorance if nothing else! And seriously rethink your “read-fire-aim” policy…. if being civil and polite is too “expensive” morally and emotionally you are the ones with a serious “weight” problem with your egos.

  335. Lindy? Why did I always think Lindy was a guy? I guess I knew a guy named Lindy and then I think Lindy was doing a live slog of the WC game and I thought maybe Lindy was just gay or something. I honestly thought for a long time that Lindy was a dude who slept with lots of hot chicks and was mainly wearing a lot of black with a black hat. My bad. You seem cool either way. I’m just saying, sometimes, we the viewing public don’t always know one way or the other. Without pics. I think I used to ride on Sarah Palin’s short bus. So feel free to disregard this post.

  338. Brava, Lindy, most especially for standing up to Dan for what amounts to cheap pot shots. I especially appreciate the points you made about how shame doesn’t actually change anyone’s body shape. In my experience, too, it perpetuates weight. I’ve lost weight at times when I felt loved and fulfilled FIRST. Btw, I think your body looks curvaceous and all earth goddessy! Maybe when the earth is cherished and respected again, images of fertility and abundance will be revered. Until then, at least there’s this handy litmus test for screening out people who are out of touch with the things that (I think) really matter: people who say ignorant, meatheaded things about weight and weight loss and those with the sense to shut their traps.

  339. Seriously, some of you people sound like radical vegans, with their, “Oh, you’re just not doing it *right* mentality”. I especially love #291’s “I happen to be very thin… It would be very hard for me to put on enough weight”, yet I still know better than you who’ve lived with it attitude. Seriously people, everyone is different. I’m 6’3″, and I average around 200 punds. If I eat like crap for a while, maybe I gain 10 pounds. If I eat super-healthy, I maybe drop down to 195. I don’t exercise, I work at a desk. By your logic I should be a 350 pound diabetic.

    Not even that anyone’s going to read this, but it’s at least one more comment to get it to the top of the stack. Lindy, yr beautiful inside and out. Nice to see you stand up for yourself so vociferously; you’ve given a voice to many who cannot.

  340. Yea Lindy! I’ve frequently wondered if when anti-fat posts go up on Slog, do you just want to yell, “Uh hello, I’m right here! You do know I read this right??!” I guess now I know the answer. Thanks for saying something. xo

  343. LOVE!!! This is just perfect for me. I think many, many people missed the point. They should go back to 6th grade and work on their reading comprehension. 🙂

    You Rock!

  344. i don’t even know you, and i love you, lindy. thank you for saying this in the way you said it. i am an instructor at a university and i spoke with students today about size oppression in our society, “ideal” body types and the like– surprisingly, they completely got it. not necessarily all the implications of course, but they know something is wrong. and now i know more about it and what link to direct them to for next class. <3 with the void, full powers.

  346. I’m going to respectfully disagree, KingofQueenAnne @ 318.

    I think that Savage works his ass off. I don’t think it is blessed genes at all. Perhaps, he is driven not to share some of the health concerns that other members of his family have, like I am? I don’t know, but he comments enough about the gym and his diet to suggest that it isn’t great genes. Not to mention that he has written about being over weight as a pre-teen/teen. I’m prone to think that he strictly controls what goes into his mouth and exercises as way of paying the piper; to avoid looking a way he may feel he is destined to become without strict effort. Maybe, that is where he is coming from? Anecdotal experience and discipline. I think it is common for humans to apply their experience to others, and to hold up their efforts as evidence that everyone can achieve the same. It may be possible that his love for others combined with his personal efforts at his physical appearance have blinded him to the idea that his words are hurtful to some? And they may have blocked him from realizing the depth of hurt, and to the realization that he doesn’t walk in the shoes of others? Just my $0.O2, though, feel free to toss it into the dustbin.

  348. it is really mind boggling how many people believe they have a RIGHT to make comments about or otherwise insist that fat people lose weight. why is it that people think that it is OK for them to do that? who the fuck are you?

    people have a right to live their lives as they please you are not in charge of other people’s bodies! mind your own fucking business and micromanage your own lives! why do you care so much? why do you hate fat people so much? what are you so afraid of?

    seriously – i doubt anyone who has insisted that fat people are fat fucking lazy ugly people and all they have to do is this this and this to make everyone else happy lives their lives in 100% perfectly acceptable ways to other people. yet they would never accept anyone else’s commentary about their lives the way they feel perfectly comfortable dictating how fat people need to live their lives.

    how many people on this comment board smoke cigarettes? drink alcohol? do drugs? drive after drinking alcohol or doing drugs? have unprotected sex? have pre-marital sex? have homosexual sex? have polyamorous sex? are in debt that they can’t possibly dig themselves out of? live lives that are lies- pretending to be something they are not? cheat on their spouses? hit their children? rob their employers of productive work hours by calling in sick when they aren’t or checking their email or facebook or ebay while at work? lie to people? steal? are racist? are sexist? etc. etc. etc. etc.

    none of you want anyone telling you how to live your life. you want people to live you alone and let you live your life. well guess what fat people deserve the same thing. get over yourselves. mind your own fucking business and keep your fat hatred to yourself!

  350. I used to be overweight and I smoked cigarettes. I had a very similar outlook on my habits as you presently do. I saw myself as a victim of two unchangeable conditions. I was addicted to food and cigarettes. The victim mentality is what allows you to project your frustrations outward. I don’t feel sorry for you. I changed my life and am in the best shape I’ve ever been in. Anyone can do it. Stop feeling sorry for yourself and justifying your poor choices. Pick up a piece of fruit, hit the gym, and stop shaking your finger at those of us who had the courage to make a choice contrary to the one you are presently making.

  352. Andrew-And it’s people like you that she is FUCKING TALKING ABOUT. JUDGEMENTAL assholes who have nothing better to do that sit around and degrade people. You make me sick.
    Oh and you know what tastes even better than doughnuts AND “not being fat”? HAVING SELF RESPECT, MORALS, AND BEING A BETTER PERSON THAN SOME JUDGEMENTAL, CRUEL ASSHOLE?
    🙂

  357. @ 348 – 100% agreement. Dan has written about his family history of weight issues multiple times. As usual, your calm reasonable voice is a welcome one in a heated discussion thread.

    “It may be possible that his love for others combined with his personal efforts at his physical appearance have blinded him to the idea that his words are hurtful to some? And they may have blocked him from realizing the depth of hurt, and to the realization that he doesn’t walk in the shoes of others?”

    Not tossing that anywhere. I think it’s true.

  359. It has been my experience that tracking calories is a bitch. Wanna know how many calories is in a serving of potato chips? Look on the back of the bag. Wanna know how many calories are in a serving of apple? Go look it up on the internet or something. HISS!

  361. @ 286 — No disputing that men get judged on factors other than appearances as harshly as women get judged on looks and weight specifically. That’s not what I was talking about though, and it has nothing to do with this article. My initial point was that I just feel a lot of pressure to be thin, as do most women. I wasn’t comparing the hardships of women and men. But now that you’ve admitted that women *are* held to greater judgment than men when it comes to looks, I guess you’re rescinding your earlier opinion that I was perpetuating a double standard.

    So: we agree. Thanks!

  362. Thank you! I understand that being overweight is less healthy.. but so are fad diets and over exercising.. so is being seriously depressed and hating yourself. I’m not entirely happy with my body now, but I’ve birthed two beautiful babies from it and I love my Husband. I could probably work out and lose more weight but whatever free time that I have to spend “working out” is spent with my kids and my family. I’d rather spend an hour doing arts & crafts with my daughter than sticking her in a damn daycare so I can run on a treadmill. She’ll thank me some day.

  363. Fat does not necessarily mean unhealthy, I’m skinny and I’m in not fantastic shape healthwise. Genetics dictate that some people just vary in size, and that’s fine. What bothers me about fat activism in general is just the whole attitude of “there’s nothing wrong with me! As a matter of fact what’s wrong with you for thinking there’s anything wrong with me?” Look, whether you’re comfortable with yourself or not, humans are simply not meant to be bigger than a certain size. Period. You should really not be chronicly and grossly overweight, regardless of genetics. And just as a thought experiment, forget about stigma as a social problem and consider it as a residual biological imperative- when I’m a Neanderthal roaming the plains trying to take down an antelope, or defend my settlement from wild animals or whatever, the overweight tribe member is a liability to me.

  365. Thank you, Lindy! and AMEN! I love Dan Savage and have been a loyal reader for a long time, but his disconnect with the issues of feminism and fat-phobia sometimes make me wish he would refrain from advising people about stuff he has little understanding of. And while fat phobia is an everybody issue, I consider it to have more of an effect on women in our society. You now what else is really bugging me about some of the comments on this post? I would bet my whole thousand dollar tax return that not one of the people commenting about how it’s just laziness, or you need to stop eating cheeseburgers is viceless, just because food may not be a weakness for them doesn’t mean they are healthier. It’s just like Dan constantly posting about how much he fucking drinks, but bashing smokers and fat people. We all choose our own vices, people.

  367. Wow. Lindy! I admire your sense of humor, self, and your GARGANTUAN balls.

    I don’t know if it’s possible, but I’d really love to see Dan grow up and admit he’s wrong for once. How can he be a champion against bullying when he contributes to the cultural hatred of fat people which, do I even need to say it? Leads to bullying of fat people.

  368. Also, @296- you clearly have no understanding of how metabolism works. Yes if you workout a ton you are more hungry and eat more. However because of the consistent increased exercise you will actually be burning more calories at rest than you were before. So you can ear more while working an exercise plan and still lose weight.

    If you need an example, consider American farmers in the early 1900’s- one always hears about them eating nothing but huge amounts of carbohydrates and salt pork and bacon and tons of eggs, things like that. However, they could do that and stay fit because 70% of the day was spent doing hard manual labor. It balances out.

  370. As someone who was diagnosed as diabetic at 90 lbs and who is now 230 lbs all the mention of fatness as a cause of diabetes bums me the fuck out. I am fat because I am diabetic, not diabetic because I am fat.

    And is it any coincidence that Dan Savage is so fatphobic and openly misogynist? I think not.

  371. And as for the whole stupid “airline seat” argument: I am a size 8 and I feel like a goddamn trapped rat when I fly. Those seats aren’t the size they are because they are comfortable for the average person. They are the size they are because that’s as small as the airlines can make them and still sell seats. It’s all about the money, honey.

  374. @348: That’s a very charitable view for you to espouse. However, as I mentioned above — just because someone has an anecdote to share doesn’t mean that it should be shared.

    Mr. Savage is obviously paid to write blunt advice to people with sexual troubles, but that doesn’t mean that he needs to be needlessly cruel. It also doesn’t mean he gets to stigmatize, demonize, and de-humanize a group of people because he feels they are unattractive without hearing from others about his behavior.

    It’s really about politeness. It is unnecessary for anyone, Mr. Savage included, to go out of their way to make other human beings feel worse about who they are.

    Perhaps you might understand it differently when I describe it another way. While they certainly have the right to do so, does it make you feel any better when commenters on Slog belittle your religious views — and you, personally, for espousing them? Does it serve any purpose other than schadenfreude?

    If you can understand that, then perhaps you can see where @318 comes from. It is understandably frustrating to receive this kind of torment from someone who is, in most other areas, a great person; more importantly, someone who is usually our ally.

  375. @ Vamos– so perfectly well said! Sooo many things can affect how much a person weighs– wether someone is eating to shield their grief, pain, or self hate, or if they simply choose to be the weight they are because they are comfortable in their own skin and have come to accept it. Of course there are real metabolic disorders, and folks who simply make bad choices for a myriad of reasons. Truth be told– people do loose weight, large amounts of it, and keep it off. They do! No one has to.. nor should they be treated poorly for the body they live in. Simply put- that’s unkind and unnneccesary. Many people use unkind words as a way to motivate others — thinking they are helpful by pointing things out and being “truthfull”. But I resent the idea that losing weight and keeping it off isn’t possible and that we aren’t in control of our own health and our bodies. There are choices we make every day and whether they are educated or “right” isn’t anyone’s right to say. But I think -and this is my opinion- those who believe that “fat” is not a choice don’t have all the facts, have given up-which is a choice, or don’t choose to search out the reasons for themselves, or simply aren’t ready to address their weight, or don’t have the desire to–either way they they are entitled to respect. Obesity isn’t the same as being a few pounds overweight. It does have health complications and there are risks associated with it. It’s not about a number, a dress size, or a socail norm, it’s about a risk. Either way I respect you, your opinions, your right to them, and your body, whatever size it is. I’d happily sit next to you in an airplane.

  378. I’m adding to pile of “Go Girls” – Yay Lindy!! As someone whose weight yo-yo’s constantly in the gay community, I’m seriously wondering why it’s all worth it. This is just skin in various shapes and sizes, and frankly – the sizes that keep getting pushed and featured aren’t really that thrilling. I’ve been on both ends (*Twink to Bear and back to muscular and then back to bear) and frankly, it’s b.s. I’m actually under my ideal body mass and for what? To hate my gut with even more vitriol?
    Dan – kindly step out of the All-Twink universe you inhabit and start looking at people with real bodies as not your adversaries.

  379. And one more thing I forgot in my above post: I am glad that a few people have made the point that Dan’s statement about rolls of fat being unsightly is not a fact, and he should have worded it as his own opinion. I, for one, have never been into skinny girls. People have all kind of theories about what makes me a “chubby chaser”, but all I know is that a bigger body is sexier to me.

  381. Quoting from the “Hey, Fat Chick” blog… I felt it was very relevant and pretty much sums up this entire issue completely… And may I add to the overwhelming support here – Lindy, you so ROCK.

    “Even if all fat people are the way they are due to their bad choices, even if every single fat person is unhealthy, that does not justify sub-standard treatment. How can the health of strangers possibly inspire such vitriol? If you remain convinced that others’ bodies are your business and that people must justify their existence to you, perhaps you should consider the possibility that you are an arsehole.”

  382. Dan crows all day long, and rightly so, that pastors and politicians have a hand in the deaths of gay teens who kill themselves. If that is the case, then how can he not see that by contributing to and authorizing fat-bias he has a hand in the mental anguish of chunky kids, both gay and straight. And especially, consider the chunky gay kid, who has EXACTLY ZERO fat gay role models. The gay kid who is taught that there is really one way to look and if you don’t fit, your only recourse is to be a part of the leather fetishist/bear community. How isolating, to look out from a rural conservative town and know that even in the big city he won’t find a community that views him as normal.

    So, yeah. Lindy, this is your It Get’s Better Project. If only a fraction of the people who have posted share this with someone, you will in all likely hood save some girl from an eating disorder or encourage some young gay kid to keep the faith.

  384. Lindy, I think that you have earned the title of Queen of Slog. Heading towards 400 posts, baby!
    Your writing has made me pee my pants. Your post dampened my face. I’ve lived this, and as you can see, so many others have.

    You fucking rule.

  385. @341– you must have misunderstood my logic. i don’t exercise either– in fact, as a classical musician, i have a pretty sedentary life. however, i also eat probably radically less than the average (more active) person. if i ate typical restaurant size portions every meal while maintaining my current activity level, i would probably be overweight and also in very poor health. the point is, there is no magic formula to achieve a perfect weight or health level. everyone needs to find the equilibrium between eating and activity that allows them to be healthy and not burden their body with excess weight. the same balance won’t work for everyone, but it’s within everyone’s power to adjust their life to be in control of their weight and general health.

    finally, i’d just like to point out that i totally approve of ‘fat’ people accepting and loving their overweight-ness. however, accepting a larger than average size should be viewed as a CHOICE. There are many many people who are overweight and would rather not be, and choosing to embrace overweight-ness also means choosing to embrace a statistically less healthy lifestyle (and potentially a shorter life). It’s fine for people to make that decision consciously, but it’s simply not OK that as a nation we turn a blind eye to the millions who are unwilling struggling with weight and assoociated health implications

  386. Not going to read 383comments to see if someone else said this but: I assumed you were older from your smartsmartsmart writing which I really hope works out to be a compliment and if it doesn’t I apologize. Great post! Thank you.

  388. I’m impressed that this thread is nearly 400 comments and no one has yet mentioned the orange extension cord in the photo.

    It reminded me of Lowly Worm.

    And to make this somewhat related to (fast) food, per the wiki: “About 500,000 Lowly Worm and Huckle Cat finger puppets, distributed by Taco Bell in 1993, were voluntarily recalled by Taco Bell following complaints that the puppets had gotten stuck onto children’s tongues.”

  389. For the record, I’ve been pointing out that Dan’s a bully for years. He wants acceptance for the gays (which I support 110 percent) but spends most of his time putting down and generalizing about fat people, Christians, Southerners, people who live in rural places, etc., etc., etc.

    He gets away with it, I guess, because he’s Dan Savage. Shame on his bosses, I’ve always thought.

    If only someone would stand up for some of the other groups Dan bullies.

  390. I believe Mr. A-Lot spoke the word of truth when he proclaimed:

    “I like big butts and I can not lie.”

    If we are to look at the historical attitudes towards sex appeal wouldn’t we be encouraging all these anorexic waifs to chow a burger once in a while?

  391. 376,

    My point was that I disagreed with the hypothesis that Savage was thin due to blessed genes. The rest was just hypothesis about why he sees his own writings as not being hurtful. That is all.

    People make fun of me all the time for multiple reasons from being legally blind to what they think are my religious views, etc. There lies the source of my compassion. I know what it is like to be rejected, beaten, and bullied. I have found that while their is a reason for unkindness that does not justify the behavior, understanding the reason why helps address the issue.

    In short, I choose to love in the face of unloving behavior. I think love has a greater ability to inspire change than belittling. You may disagree. Feel free to disagree.

    Enjoy your weekend.

  393. THANK you, Lindy! You rock! Am in perfect agreement with you on every point, and I would like to add that men who demean women for not fitting into their ideal of the ‘perfect’ woman by calling them lazy, &c. need to understand that men’s experiences with weight loss are not the same as women’s experiences with it.

    As for me, I’m still working on trying to live a healthier life because I want to live longer, but I would give anything to have come to love my body the way you have. The battle continues. Three cheers for our standard-bearer!

  394. I sincerely agree. I’m honestly so tired of hating everything about my appearance. And to be honest, I’m pretty sure that if I were thinner, I would still have been uncomfortable with it. I want to be proud of who I am. No, I’m not perfect, and no amount of exercise will change that. I’ve been there. I’ve dedicated my entire days to health and fitness. I worked out religiously, hardly ate anything. And yes, I did lose some weight, but I was fucking miserable. It wasn’t a life. It was a prison sentence. I never want to live like that again. I never want to have all my thoughts revolve around how many calories I’ve taken in and how many sit ups I’ll have to do when I get home to undo that turkey sandwich I ate earlier. So maybe I won’t ever be a size 8, but at the same time, I’m not a fucking cow. I don’t have diabetes. I have a normal blood pressure, and have never even been to the doctor. I’m going to be proud of myself, and of the beautiful person I am, inside and out.

  395. Thank you Kim. Reading your comments is a gentle reminder to me that one can be gracious in disagreement, and that in the end, it’s best to employ compassion (for self and others) and empathy. I’m a big Savage fan but could never understand what I determined to be a huge disconnect in his personal opinions of fat people. It led me to believe that he simply had a mean streak. This may very well be the truth, but I appreciate your view that it may be something else. That’s not to say that what he says on the topic isn’t hurtful, self-defeating and harmful, just that perhaps there is perhaps another (maybe kinder?) reason for him saying these things other than a part of him being a vicious cunt.

  396. “OOPS I JUST YAWNED TO DEATH.”
    YES. x1000. People who obsess about weight (their own or other people’s) are just betraying the fact that they have nothing in their lives that is actually worthwhile and interesting.

    Thanks for writing this. I don’t care about your body, as long as you keep carrying that fucking gorgeous brain.

  397. This is one of the best things I’ve read; funny, clear, backed up by evidence. I only hope it does something to get him to feel less comfortable being so judgmental. With a huge following there’s no real incentive for him or his editors to change and certainly censorship is out of the question, it would take a change in character. Thanks for this.

  398. This was the most dishonest post I’ve ever seen Lindy write. Period.

    In no way, in Dan’s original post, was he ragging on fat people. He was saying that banning gay marriage was as senseless as trying to ban marriage between two obese people (If you were to use the “unhealthy” argument the republicans were using). That Lindy took offense to that, and completely (weirdly) internalized it as some swipe at her is just crazy.

    Has Dan EVER come up to you in the office Lindy and looked right at you and said, “I think you are fat.”?

    Ahem…. Waiting for the answer…. Really? Never?

    So you are just assuming that he thinks you are fat because he writes about the completely unhealthy eating habits of a large portion of the American public? And because you perceive yourself as fat, you go on a tear at him about this?

    And for proof that he hates fat people you use a chapter from “Skipping Towards Gomorrah”, in which he goes to the NAAFA convention? (NAAFA stands for National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance.) A convention of extremely obese women riding around in scooters because they have lost the will or ability to walk anymore, because they weigh upwards of 500 lbs.

    C’mon Lindy. You read the whole chapter, didn’t you? Be honest. Any swipe at fat acceptance in that chapter was completely warranted by the attitudes of the women at that convention.

    And you use a SL letter in which SOMEONE ELSE tells fat women to stop wearing tight low hung jeans as proof that Dan hates fat women. Dan even says, “pointing out that something isn’t flattering isn’t the same thing as saying that the person wearing the unflattering garment is unattractive”.

    And a post about kids drinking three cans of soda FOR BREAKFAST?!?!?! Guess what Lindy? That’s unhealthy!!! (and disgusting.)

    And to finish it off, you use a song by Tim Minchin!?! The comedian? I thought you LOVED comedians?!? (btw I hear he’s coming to Sasquatch! Will you be there to protest?) He sings about all the excuses large people make, then not only do you go on to make some of those excuses yourself (as do many readers in these comments), but the very next post on this blog is your review of various hamburgers.

    Really? That is your evidence that Dan hates fat people?!?

    If anything I see Dan is concerned about the general health of the public at large (and very large). In the same way we all want Obama’s Health Care plan to work, we also want all Americans to chip in and do their part. Not just pay taxes, but eat healthier and exercise a little more. In the end it helps you live longer and keeps health care costs down (for EVERYONE). Why wouldn’t any rational person want that?

    That pointing that out is a personal offense against Lindy West so, “Stop It!!!” is down right silly, petulant and dishonest to yourself and your readers.

    The reason he used obese people as an example is because there is ample evidence that the harm they do to themselves is REAL and the harm obese parents do to their children through bad eating and social habits is REAL.

    But, you know, you’ve always had a way of making every post, every movie review, every hamburger review all about Lindy. And for the most part it’s always been funny. So why not start making all your coworkers posts about you too?

    You lost me on this one. Dishonest, deceitful, unfair, and frankly unethical.

    He doesn’t hate fat people, he hates a culture which has lead to unhealthy eating habits and obese children and parents, shoving corn syrup, starches and carbs down people’s throats as a cheap and easy way to feed your family.

    He’s right. You’re crazy.

  401. I think your point about loving your body was the best one. When you seek a result out of love rather than shame, you’re more likely to reach that result. We all need to remember that. Thanks for making it. And for being awesome. And hey, thanks for being fat. It’s not that bad.

  402. Congrats on being spot on with #400, FirstTimeCommenter. I don’t think Dan has an editor any more, so he and we are lucky he has a subordinate colleague with not just the courage, but with such sharply honed writing skills in the service of a first-class mind, to step to him.

    I believe this will end not in tears but in a dance-off, with videography by Kelly O if we’re very lucky.

  403. @394, Kim in Portland: I feel obligated to register an objection to your methods. While I recognize the irony of decrying unsolicited advice just a few posts earlier, you did tell me to disagree …

    You seem happy with your modus operandi, and it probably works very well for you. However, please recognize that for many people, a display of unconditional love (including unconditional acceptance, or tolerance) in the face of objectively destructive behavior is counterproductive. It may be more warranted for children and family members, but I believe that your position of neutrality on an admittedly painful issue offers more hurt than it does help.

    This doesn’t mean others get the right to be cruel in their criticism, but your response @348 is most easily interpreted as a defense of his actions. Mr. Savage has gone far beyond sharing the occasional anecdote, and the point of Ms. West’s article is that he needs to mind his own business. If you disagree with that, I’d like to see some reasoning from your erudite mind on why such demonstrably hurtful behavior is acceptable.

    Enjoy your weekend, also.

  405. Well, I care about people consuming more than they need to for health and environmental reasons. Being fat is simple. Too many calories in, not enough calories burned. If you aren’t losing weight, you aren’t exercising enough or calculating your calories for your body. You don’t need to feed yourself at the first pang of hunger.. And you don’t need to consume so much. It’s stressful on your body, and the planet. Knock it off and stop telling yourself it’s OK. As kind of a bigger girl, who was a lot bigger at one time, (270! Eeek! Ick!), I get SICK AND TIRED of fat people sitting around, patting each other on the back and saying, “OMG! I can’t lose weight either! It must be some kind of conspiracy!” No, it’s not a conspiracy, you just have to not be a total retard and eat burgers and shakes and then wonder why you’re fat. Geezeeess. I’m all about loving your body, even if you’re fat or thin or whatever, but you shouldn’t be confused or in denial about why you are fat or what it does to your body. Sometimes, people harp on you because they GIVE A SHIT and don’t want you to die of a heart attack or stroke, the same way they harp on drug addicts to stop doing drugs because it will kill them. Over eating is an addiction, just like drugs, and it can be stopped, just like drugs. You’re not doing yourself or anyone else any favors by promoting a “positive attitude” about something that is potentially lethal. Wake the fuck up.

  406. Well, I care about people consuming more than they need to for health and environmental reasons. Being fat is simple. Too many calories in, not enough calories burned. If you aren’t losing weight, you aren’t exercising enough or calculating your calories for your body. You don’t need to feed yourself at the first pang of hunger.. And you don’t need to consume so much. It’s stressful on your body, and the planet. Knock it off and stop telling yourself it’s OK. As kind of a bigger girl, who was a lot bigger at one time, (270! Eeek! Ick!), I get SICK AND TIRED of fat people sitting around, patting each other on the back and saying, “OMG! I can’t lose weight either! It must be some kind of conspiracy!” No, it’s not a conspiracy, you just have to not be a total retard and eat burgers and shakes and then wonder why you’re fat. Geezeeess. I’m all about loving your body, even if you’re fat or thin or whatever, but you shouldn’t be confused or in denial about why you are fat or what it does to your body. Sometimes, people harp on you because they GIVE A SHIT and don’t want you to die of a heart attack or stroke, the same way they harp on drug addicts to stop doing drugs because it will kill them. Over eating is an addiction, just like drugs, and it can be stopped, just like drugs. You’re not doing yourself or anyone else any favors by promoting a “positive attitude” about something that is potentially lethal. Wake the fuck up.

  408. Whoa. Lindy I admire you chutzpah for being able to go after your boss like that, and often enjoy your musings but the way this post was executed raises an eyebrow. I hope you are ok. I won’t presume the nature of inter-personal relationships at the Slog HQ, but I also hope that that is ok (or not depending I guess).

    Since you wrote this in Lindy-about-town-style-mode I can’t really tell if this is a put on by the both of you or you are being somewhat tongue-in-cheek. If this is totally legit then I’d say it’s clear that you’re very affected by a sense of discrimination and/or hostility in the workplace. And that’s not good.

    I don’t want to thump on journalistic ethics aspect, since this is a blog, and you guys are known for shticky stuff sometimes (which I do appreciate!), but yeah this is a little disconcerting. This made even more so by the amount of other Stranger staff members that seem to be echoing your concerns.

    Not to be too critical, but if you are going to publicly level accusations of discrimination and hostile work environment through your work product itself that happens to be a newspaper you actually should probably be providing “the links” or at least your argument in as a cohesive and contextual manner as possible. The way it stands right now you’ve left things largely implied, or based largely on personal sentiment drawn from feelings of angst, and self-loathing that’s been mixed or subsumed into a kind of self-affirmation. Unfortunately though the skeptic in me is in the corner of my mind wondering whether or not you’re on the warpath towards a straw-man fallacy or projection, which really only gets fully dispelled if I’m willing to undertake a research project (which I’m not at the moment).

    I dunno I’m on cold meds so my perception may be off a bit, but I do dig your stuff, I sincerely hope you are doing ok, and that everything works out.

  409. 403 – you’re turning a “What Dan Said” argument into a “What Dan Is” argument, which is intellectually dishonest. You also use that as a platform to use judgmental and ableist language, which is more than just a little infuriating.

    You can bang your keyboard until the muscles in your arms bulge like firehoses about what Dan intends, what he feels, what he thinks, and what his innermost warm feelings are towards fat people, but what he SAID was things like
    ______

    I am thoroughly annoyed at having my tame statements of fact—being heavy is a health risk; rolls of exposed flesh are unsightly—characterized as “hate speech.”
    ______

    In the absence of the crystal ball you seem to possess, the rest of us simply have to deal with the words someone specifically chooses to represent their thoughts, and Dan apparently thinks that “rolls of exposed flesh are unsightly” somehow represents some kind of objective truth. It doesn’t. A subjective opinion is not a statement of fact, and what he said was harmful, ignorant, and unjust, and trying to defend what he IS to shout us down for pointing out what he SAID is disingenuous. Stop it.

  410. 403 – you’re turning a “What Dan Said” argument into a “What Dan Is” argument, which is intellectually dishonest. You also use that as a platform to use judgmental and ableist language, which is more than just a little infuriating.

    You can bang your keyboard until the muscles in your arms bulge like firehoses about what Dan intends, what he feels, what he thinks, and what his innermost warm feelings are towards fat people, but what he SAID was things like
    ______

    I am thoroughly annoyed at having my tame statements of fact—being heavy is a health risk; rolls of exposed flesh are unsightly—characterized as “hate speech.”
    ______

    In the absence of the crystal ball you seem to possess, the rest of us simply have to deal with the words someone specifically chooses to represent their thoughts, and Dan apparently thinks that “rolls of exposed flesh are unsightly” somehow represents some kind of objective truth. It doesn’t. A subjective opinion is not a statement of fact, and what he said was harmful, ignorant, and unjust, and trying to defend what he IS to shout us down for pointing out what he SAID is disingenuous. Stop it.

  411. @37 Wrong. a person does not have complete control over being fact. there are many factors involved. top of the list genetics. you can’t pick you fucking DNA you idiot

  412. I’m going to bet that Dan will do the same thing he did during the “Tard Supper” fiasco:

    He will never mention it, never acknowledge that he is wrong, and will take it off the most commented page as soon as he thinks he can get away with it. (Is anyone foolish enough to take that bet?)

    Which really, really disappoints me, because I really like Dan and wish that he had more emotional maturity than a 5 year old. It’s GOOD to admit when you are wrong. It’s GOOD to examine your prejudices.

    He needed to apologize for the “Tard Supper”, and he needs to apologize for the years of “fat people, eeeeew!”

  416. As most fat people, you are stupid, angry, mentally lazy and passive-aggressive. Nothing attractive about that, and men don’t like it, no.

    Also, there was not a single fat person in the chronicles from the liberation of Nazi death camps. So no, you are lying and nobody is doomed to stay fat forever. You are fat first in your head, and then in your body.

    How do I know? I’ve been like you. Not anymore.

  417. As most fat people, you are stupid, angry, mentally lazy and passive-aggressive. Nothing attractive about that, and men don’t like it, no.

    Also, there was not a single fat person in the chronicles from the liberation of Nazi death camps. So no, you are lying and nobody is doomed to stay fat forever. You are fat first in your head, and then in your body.

    How do I know? I’ve been like you. Not anymore.

  418. i call bullshit. i’m 50 pounds overweight and have been so for a few years. i’ve “tried” to lose it again and again, but if i’m being honest with myself i haven’t failed to succeed just because i’m “incapable,” i flat out gave up on myself time and again because i couldn’t say no to cheeseburgers and chinese food and potato chips.

    NO ONE is happy being overweight, they’re just deluding themselves that they’re content because it’s easier to justify and excuse your flaws than to own up to them and accept that you need to change. it’s not fun, sexy, or any kind of acceptable to be incapble of doing simple, everyday tasks like walking down the street or up a flight of stairs without getting winded. no one feels good searching high and low for something that camouflages those rolls that you claim are only “subjectively unsightly” or going to a “special” store to buy clothes that are made for their giant frame. and honestly, it’s a pain in the ass to constantly play the victim to people telling you either directly or indirectly that you are unnacceptable and need to change (because you do!). more than anything though, it sucks knowing that all it takes to make you feel powerless and out of control is readily available junk food, because until you actually admit to and take control of the problem, you’re that junk food’s bitch because you just can’t say no.

    i’ve seen the effects of long-term obesity first-hand and they are horrible. being overweight is a pain, a struggle, and honestly, a constant guilt-trip. i hate living with the possibility that some day i’m going to wake up and realize that irreparable and PREVENTABLE damage has been done to my body and my health that will shorten and ruin the quality of life for myself and for my loved ones. but i’m not going to give up on myself because one day i want to be proud and in charge of my body instead of having it dictate what i am and am not capable of doing.

    so to anyone who claims to be proud of or happy with their body or existence: stop kidding yourselves. if you could snap your fingers and be thin, you would do it in a heartbeat; the only reason you don’t is because it’s a hell of a lot harder than that and you can’t take it. don’t act like this is some proud declaration or protest against societal norms; it’s someone pretending that their choice to be fat (or rather, the choice NOT to be thin) is a biological imperative rather than a treatable condition. give me a break.

    and as for those people who you claim have a “complete lack of empathy” just because they point out the cold, hard facts about a person’s condition, i don’t have much to say except– again– bullshit.

  419. Lindy, you look great.. your body looks great.. you are a very attractive woman.. i congratulate on your courage and wisdom to accept yourself as you are and not allow others to pressure or shame you.

    Sadly weight can take its toll on our bodies with age .. like anything our bodies suffer wear and tear over the years and its important that regardless of weight, that we look after our health.. for the sake of our health and well being and prolonged life.

    I am much much fatter then you, and at 50 i am now suffering the side effects of being older and heavier.. i am proud of myself and my body.. but i need to find the motivation to lose some weight for health reasons not asthetic reasons..

    as with everything in life.. i belief the key to true happiness is balance.. and doing what is right for you … don’t live the life others have planned for you.. live the life that brings you fulfillment and joy.

    i wish you well 🙂

  420. Lindy, you look great.. your body looks great.. you are a very attractive woman.. i congratulate on your courage and wisdom to accept yourself as you are and not allow others to pressure or shame you.

    Sadly weight can take its toll on our bodies with age .. like anything our bodies suffer wear and tear over the years and its important that regardless of weight, that we look after our health.. for the sake of our health and well being and prolonged life.

    I am much much fatter then you, and at 50 i am now suffering the side effects of being older and heavier.. i am proud of myself and my body.. but i need to find the motivation to lose some weight for health reasons not asthetic reasons..

    as with everything in life.. i belief the key to true happiness is balance.. and doing what is right for you … don’t live the life others have planned for you.. live the life that brings you fulfillment and joy.

    i wish you well 🙂

  421. high five, lindy dude! and you know what? fuck anybody who says you’re gross OR who says you’re sexy. A body is a body is a body and it does what it does, it doesn’t make a person worthy or unworthy of pleasure or sex or calories or money or god’s love or an ant farm. or whatever. fat is not a fucking moral issue. fat is not even a fucking aesthetic issue, it’s mostly just a jerk issue that some people have to actually live with.

  423. @419 and @420 As most double-posting people, you are stupid, angry, mentally lazy and passive-aggressive. Nothing attractive about that, and men don’t like it, no.

    Good luck in your next life as a Chrysomya Megacephala…

  424. @409: I consume fewer calories than my marathon running best friend. I wear out fewer clothes too. I recycle, and compost. Your bullshit assumptions about the impact on the world of fat people is just that, bullshit.

    To the various folks who suggest it’s a choice: Would you be OK with people saying “Blondes are just gross. I mean, ewwww.” Or “Mormons are just icky.” After all, it’s a hell of a lot easier to change your hair color or religion than change your weight.

    I don’t want you to be attracted to me, if you don’t want to be. But keep your negative news

  426. @409: I consume fewer calories than my marathon running best friend. I wear out fewer clothes too. I recycle, and compost. I work out 3x a week. Oh, and just because it’s funny, my cholesterol levels are perfect, my best friend is on statins. My health is just fine, and my impact on the world is no more than a thin person’s. Your bullshit assumptions about the impact on the world of fat people is just that, bullshit.

    To the various folks who suggest it’s a choice: Would you be OK with people saying “Blondes are just gross. I mean, ewwww.” Or “Mormons are just icky.” After all, it’s a hell of a lot easier to change your hair color or religion than change your weight. Yes, it’s my choice not to devote 2-3 hours a day to exercising.

    I don’t want you to be attracted to me, if you don’t want to be. But much like it’s not OK to call out gays for showing affection for each other, people with bad skin for having that, or any other personal characteristic, it’s rude to call out fat people for being unattractive or unhealthy. Especially when you know nothing of their health.

  427. I find it amazing that there are over 400 comments and none of them contain the words “Europe” or “Japan”. DNA makes about 3% of people fat, not 30%. Eating burgers does not make you fat. Let me repeat that: EATING BURGERS DOES NOT MAKE YOU FAT. However, eating American portions of burgers with a mountain of fries on the side over a period of ten years does make you fat. People in France eat all kinds of fatty foods, yet they do not have America’s obesity problem. They call it the “French paradox”, although it’s only a paradox to Americans and Lindy West.

  428. @430: 431 comments now, and you’re hardly the only person to miss the primary points of Lindy’s excellent piece here: 1) The fact that you aren’t attracted to fat people doesn’t make it right for you to publicly harass them; 2) America’s epidemiological issues are not Lindy’s personal responsibility, and 3) Under no circumstances does shame “help” a fat person who actually does want to be thin.

    Of course, by the same logic, I should probably realize that shaming you for being stupid won’t really help you. Sorry.

  431. @289: I absolutely did read it. Maybe you didn’t really understand what I was saying or maybe we got different things out of Lindy’s post.

    I took Lindy’s post as “Yes I’m fat. But you’re an asshole for thinking being fat is a bad thing. Being fat and being thin are equally valid states of being. Both are attractive, only societally induced biases lead people to thinking fat isn’t attractive.” She didn’t play the victim card as heavily as some Fat Acceptance movement people, but she did play the victim card. Especially with that final bit about how once she accepted her body she started losing weight. That also suggested that losing weight was some mystery that nobody can do deliberately and only happens through magical fairy dust of self love.

    I disagreed strongly with Lindy’s post, but rather than just dissect it point by point, I decided to share my own view on the subject.

  432. All the fat people here on a Friday night that had nothing to do and nobody to do it with, circle jerking each other got the comments up over 430.

    It will be interesting when other healthy, active individuals join the conversation this morning and in the coming days.

  434. Lots of people try really hard not to be fat – SOMETIMES because they have a specific health reason, but mostly because the world tells them being fat is bad. Lots of people also try really hard not to be gay, because their world tells them being gay is bad. Pretty much anybody who’s watched the news in the last year knows that isn’t working out so well for people.

    The only “healthy” way to live is whatever makes you the healthiest (and yes, that includes mental health) version of the real you – whether the real you is programmed to be fat, gay, or any of a whole host of other things that, after a certain point, we can’t fight, and shouldn’t try. Some people are going to have more fat on their bodies than others no matter how much they try to torture themselves into a different shape than the one they were born with. And the sad truth about our world is that other people are going to be jerks to them because of that. But being a jerk doesn’t make you right, or some kind of expert on how other people’s bodies work because you think you understand how your personal body works – it just makes you a jerk.

    By the way, I’m skinny. And gay.

    (and so active that the insurance system into which you probably pay is currently funding the rehabilitation of several of my sports injuries, so thanks for that)

  435. This is all well and good in Women’s Studies 101 and your talks with friends over coffee, but let’s see where you are in 10-15 years, when your cholesterol and triglycerides are through the roof, you have Type 2 diabetes and your joints are aching from carrying all that extra weight around. Let’s see you try and walk up several flights of steps without getting winded, and check your blood pressure. Or if you have children, let’s see if you develop gestational diabetes or give birth to a heavy baby because of all that insulin sensitivity, thus increasing their chances of later developing diabetes.
    Being fat is ugly, but it’s also unhealthy, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with “accepting” yourself or being “oppressed.” This is laziness and a simple choice not to take responsibility and make healthy choices.

  436. @#2 You appear to be a male. Anyone with half a brain knows that men have higher metabolisms, more muscle mass, and a TREMENDOUSLY easier time losing weight than women. In fact, I am always shocked that men and women compete together on “The Biggest Loser” since men have such an enormous biological advantage to losing weight. So, please do not make me sick by comparing yourself to a woman in this regard. There is no comparison. I am amazed you ever got fat in the first place, with that incredible male metabolism. You must have been an absolute glutton. Signed, A Woman

  439. I love how you put a skinny woman with a lit cigarette in one hand and a Red Bull in the other next to a 5’9″ 263lb woman and the overwhelming choice for the “healthy” of the two would be the skinny woman.

  440. First comment on slog–I’m appalled at some of the utter cruelty and lack of compassion shown in this thread, much of it the kind of judgment you’d expect at CPAC. Despite all the awesome support Lindy’s getting for speaking her truth (note: her truth, not “everyone’s” truth), it’s making me rethink whether to devote time to this blog or community. Would any of you be this cruel or judgmental to people in person?

  442. I’m fat and surrounded by people who think I’m the hottest thing this side of the sun. Confidence & happiness are sexy. Ugly like Dan’s goes down to the bone.

  443. The only excuse for being fat is laziness. I realized one day that I was 30 lbs overweight. Why? Because I had been lazy, neglectful and disingenuous about taking care of myself. So rather than wallow in sadness, start a pity party or “accept” my fate of an uncomfortable and selfish life I decided to kick my own butt. And ya know what happened? I lost the weight. Not only that, I kicked a lot of my lazy habits along the way so not only could I keep the weight off, but become a better person in many more ways. So when I hear fat people talk about it being genetics, too hard or whatever other excuse they come up with, I just read that as being too lazy and selfish to get their lives straightened out. So go ahead, keep on writing for “fat acceptance” and enjoy your shorter, unhealthy, socially expensive and uncomfortable life.

  445. Hoh boy. I am really, really afraid of jumping into the fray here, but against my better judgment, here’s my two cents.

    First, let me preface this by saying that, by virtue of being a lesbian, I’m probably not as tuned into this issue as a lot of the people on this thread. Size hasn’t seemed to stop my bigger girlfriends from finding a special lady, just as being a scrawny thing and having little in the way of breasts hasn’t hindered my love life. But, you know, still a “traditionally feminine” chick myself, and I’m still part of the larger society, so here goes:

    It looks like there are a few different strains of argument here, in Lindy’s post and in the comments. One seems to be about what causes weight gain/fatness/obesity. Mostly, people seem to be arguing about whether it’s genetics, environmental factors, or simply a matter of personal choices. My question, I guess, is why anyone seems to think these things are mutually exclusive. To my understanding, all the reputable science on the subject suggests that both genetic factors and personal consumption, together, are what determine one’s weight and weight distribution. Meanwhile, marketing of junk food is relentless, and seems to be most effective in low-income communities; that’s an environmental factor beyond most people’s control, but the reason it has an impact is because it affects personal consumption. (Don’t get me started on the subsidies we have that make unhealthy foods far more affordable than healthy foods – that’s a disaster.) Different people have different healthy weight ranges; the ideal shouldn’t be universal size 2 figures, but there’s something to be said for encouraging people to find their ideal weight.

    Another issue is whether being overweight or obese is inherently unhealthy. A lot of people seem to be falling on one of two sides here: either being fat has nothing to do with health, or being fat is equivalent to being unhealthy. Both sides seem to be relying heavily on anecdotal evidence. And both of these assessments are straight-up medically wrong; being overweight is one of many, many risk factors affecting allover health. We all know unhealthy skinny minnies and fabulously healthy fat people; that’s because, well, global trends don’t necessarily manifest themselves in each individual case. But for most people, most of the time, being overweight can contribute to other health problems. That being said, a physically active fat person who balances cheeseburgers with fruits and vegetables is probably going to be healthier than a skinny person who doesn’t take care of him or herself.

    The human body is a complicated bit of machinery. There’s quite a bit of variance in people’s metabolic processes. But there’s a big difference between saying that not everyone can be the same weight, and saying that diet and physical activity don’t affect weight. The former is absolutely true; the latter, just not borne out by the evidence.

    So, yes, from a public health standpoint, encouraging people to eat more vegetables and get more physical activity is probably a good thing. (Note: more physical activity is not the same thing as hitting the gym for 2.5 hours a day. That’s nuts.) There’s a right way and a wrong way to go about it, though. For instance, I think Mrs. Obama’s campaign to introduce healthier foods and more physical activity into schools is quite admirable. That isn’t about shaming kids into feeling bad about the way they look; it’s about encouraging kids to take control of their diets, habits, and health, regardless of what they look like.

    Shame seems to be the other major strand of this thread. People should not be made to feel ashamed of their bodies. But I also don’t think anyone should have to apologize for what they find physically attractive. That being said, there’s quite a difference between “I like thinner girls” and “Fat chicks are gross.”

    As a point of personal privilege: I do actually understand what it’s like to have my eating habits scrutinized, and to have to justify every damn thing I put in my mouth. Most of it comes from my parents, who constantly harangue me about my collarbones and try to force me to eat more every damn time they see me. Despite the fact that I feel fine, despite the fact that I don’t starve myself, my body type means that I get treated like a particularly stupid and inept child every time a holiday rolls around. Now, I’m not going to pretend that’s the same as the constant onslaught of utter crap that gets heaped on fat people – it isn’t. The point is that I understand how having to constantly justify one of the most basic aspects of your daily life can really take a toll. And that’s even before you factor in the gay thing.

    All that said, I’m not so sure about this equivalence between being fat and being gay. Setting aside the marriage thing, I’ve never heard of someone being beaten or killed by a couple of thugs for being fat, or having their parents drill into them that they are a moral abomination for being overweight. I’m not trying to be insensitive; I’m genuinely curious.

  446. Love the post. As a fat woman, I have to respond with amusement to people who saying ‘losing weight can be done’. Who cares if it can be done or not? I don’t give a crap that my body doesn’t conform to your standard – who the hell are you anyway? And to the people who comment about the ‘scary health risks’ of fatness: again, my damn business. I don’t go around inquiring if people are using condoms or drinking or even smoking. None of my business. What I do expect is to be treated like the human being I am without your fatism judgement. I don’t going around judging people’s color, wardrobe, shape or other externalities. But everyone likes to have someone below them on the totem pole – makes them feel better for their own shortcomings….

    As for the fat-policing fatties… there is another way and I so so sorry if you haven’t found it yet. It is there, and as soon as you start rejecting the lies and assumptions, the way you feel about yourself will change… and in every way! You will realize exactly what crap you have been putting up with and you will realize how much more you deserve out of the people and situations in your life.

    In the society, to be a happy fat person is completely radical. And if hate and shame made people lose weight, we’d all be thin by now.

  447. @447 Just keep reenforcing and arming the lazy with excuses. “do not try because you will fail” is BS. Human beings have only ever been fat when they are lazy and live in excess. Now excess is a $1 cheeseburger. And because of that people gorge themselves on mindless, garbage food because they are too lazy to put any thought into what they stuff down their face. 30 minutes of searching and reading is all you need to know to understand the basics of why your fat. And with a little more work you may hesitate the next time you curl up into your ignorance bubble with a bag of chips. But that’s not easy or comfortable, so just justify your laziness and live your pathetic life as a human larva.

  448. I’ve been fat all my life, and being shamed about it never helped me. Because of that shame, my first boyfriend was a nasty person because I was 100% convinced that I was so ugly, nobody would want me ever.
    Then when I moved, I stopped doing something I had done all my life because I was ashamed to take dance classes where they don’t know me. (And duh, I also got fatter during that period).
    Now I started dancing again this year. I’m a lot fatter than I used to be. I can’t believe I didn’t dance for a whole 10 years.

    STOP THE SHAME!!!

  449. I’ve been fat all my life, and being shamed about it never helped me. Because of that shame, my first boyfriend was a nasty person because I was 100% convinced that I was so ugly, nobody would want me ever.
    Then when I moved, I stopped doing something I had done all my life because I was ashamed to take dance classes where they don’t know me. (And duh, I also got fatter during that period).
    Now I started dancing again this year. I’m a lot fatter than I used to be. I can’t believe I didn’t dance for a whole 10 years.

    STOP THE SHAME!!!

  450. @ 445 – Hon, I’m not going to disagree that confidence and happiness are just about the sexiest thing on the planet, but ladies like us aren’t really subject to the same social pressures as straight girls, especially in the dating arena. Being a bigger girl shouldn’t be an impediment to anyone’s love life, but it seems to pose more of a barrier to those of us who want to attract men than those of us who want to attract women.

    On that note, time to go be productive. Because my employer doesn’t care about me being gay or skinny or what have you; my employer just wants these documents ready to go before business opens on Monday. Ain’t equality grand?

  451. THIS, THIS QUOTE: “I reject the notion that thinness is the goal, that thin = better—that I am an unfinished thing and that my life can really start when I lose weight. That then I will be a real person and have finally succeeded as a woman. “

    That’s the Savage mental framework indeed. (Even in the It Gets Better Project.) Some day, some magical day in the future, you too can be a whole person. Your life doesn’t start until you change x,y,z. You should be more liberated in your thinking, thinner, more privileged, then your life will start. Leave your one-horse town, act whiter, be less reliant on monogamy, then your life will start and it will get better.

  452. For all of you offering your personal anecdata as a set of moral guidelines for the rest of us: people’s bodies are different. My endocrinologist gave me a copy of the second study (the prisoner one) mentioned is this article. It is long, interesting, and casts a lot of doubt on popularly held beliefs. Your weight loss is not someone else’s weight loss. Stop universalizing your experiences.

  453. Dan is a bitter man who is afraid of/bemused by people not like him. Seeing him dole out “advice” was cute for a while, but stopped being cute (and interesting) ten years ago. END SAVAGE LOVE ALREADY.

  456. Roma @270: I think the point I was making (and that I think you are missing) is that everyone’s bodies process calories differently, and that’s a fact. So some people need heaps more discipline than other people just to keep from gaining weight, much less losing it. Take your mountain analogy: it’s like some people have to take 2-3 times as many steps to get up the same mountain. It’s just harder for them, not because they love food more or have less willpower, but because their bodies work differently. You might find, if your body suddenly started working the same way, that you didn’t have the willpower to be skinny anymore. I hike regularly with a group, and there are people who are way more fit than me, who exercise more, who eat better and live a healthier lifestyle. And they still have a body type that society considers “fat”. It’s unjust and pretty much out of their control, unless they are willing to work on diet and exercise 24/7 and who want to live like that?

  457. I thought Sloggers favorite meme was how conservative, rural Americas were all stupid and FAT? Are we going to have to throw that one out the window or are they only stupid and fat when they believe in small government. If they believe in the nanny state, they are no longer fat? If so, that’s a great way to diet.

  458. Lindy, I am sad that I was not one of the the first to say I love you. @435 I am not fat and I was out last night and am only commenting now the next morning. I should just let it go but you egged me on.

    First of all my take on Dan is he is someone who has a mild to moderate tendency to be fat and is able to control it with lots of exercise and diet obsession. These ideas are sprinkled throughout his writing and I am not going to waste my time providing links. I am not offering this as fact but my view. Dan is the only one who can tell us the truth, if he is capable. This makes him the body weight equivalent of an ex-smoker who still has to work on it.

    Second, everybody has a different metabolic tendency towards gaining weight and a different level of shame driven tendency to over eat or eat crappy food. Judging people without really knowing is ignorant and actually hurts more than it helps. One of my kids was a bed wetter and eventually I realized that my getting upset was not helping but actually making it worse. I stopped getting upset and just made sure that last thing every night there was a trip to the bathroom no matter what. I it stopped almost instantly.

    This may not be the best example but it was the one where I learned being a jerk under the guise of trying to help is bullshit and counterproductive.

    Anybody who rags on her choice of picture to post has no idea of what kind of a first step it is to post that picture along with an unflinching statement of the truth that followed. True courage is obvious to those who don’t have their head up their ass.

    Maybe Lindy can lose weight by getting over the shame and slowly managing her eating over a period of years or maybe not. It’s not for anyone else to judge. She is the only one who can possibly figure it out. The beauty of her honesty and directness is amazing and make me think she can learn the truth. This is more than I can say for most people regarding their challenges. I am not particularly attracted to fat people but I have a major crush on her that just got worse.

    Remeber Lindy no mater how tough it get it could be worse, you could be willfully stupid.

  459. Is this a reaction to Egypt? Will the military support Dan? Where is Obama on this?

    Seriously though, isn’t Dan kind of your boss? Are you shitting where you are eat? Good luck, I like your writing Ms. West.

  460. Lindy, I admire your spirit and your bravado.

    I still think Dan’s original point is valid (that banning gay marriage because of ‘shortened life expectancy’ is no more legitimate than banning fat marriage for the same reasons).

    As far as your numbered points go:
    1) You reject Dan’s “eeeeeewww,” as you say, but I don’t buy for one minute that you don’t really care. It’s obviously deeply hurtful to you. You make the comparison to anti-gay bigots, but Dan himself has said many times that homophobes have EVERY RIGHT to say terrible, hurtful things about gay people in a free society. And he has every right to say hurtful things back. He just insists on equal civil rights. I actually think he’s practicing what he preaches here.

    2) As expensive as mental health care is (and it is costly), it is nothing compared to dialysis and cardiac care. From a “cost” perspective, the latter two alone are what’s driving us into the ground. As far as Dan not knowing anything about your health, you’re right. But has he been talking about YOU ONLY, Lindy West? Or has he been talking about the overall trend towards bad health in the overweight? I think it’s the latter. And I’m sorry, but just as public health (syphilis, vaccinations, HIV, etc.) affects everyone, it is everyone’s business. In other words, that nice IV drug user you know may not have HIV, but as a whole IV drug users have far more HIV than the rest of the population. Their health care costs are an issue. It is not unreasonable to comment on the behavior that makes them sick, that costs society billions. It does not mean that they should be rounded up and executed, but it certainly doesn’t mean they can shoot up and show up at the hospital for tons of expensive medical care many of them can’t pay for and somehow it isn’t any of my business at all.

    3). See number 2 above.

    4) Lindy, if you really don’t give a shit and aren’t going to waste another second of your life thinking about this, why write this lengthy column? I think you protest too much. Passion does not nullify reality.

  461. I have no opinion about Dan or Lindy, but I do love to read all the comments on these sorts of posts that claim that losing weight is impossible, anyone who tries is going to fail, that it takes 6 hours of exercise a day, that they know a fat vegan and therefore some people are simply destined to be fat (like you can’t overeat pasta?), that anyone trying to lose weight is simply brainwashed by magazines and that anyone who does manage to lose their extra weight will certainly gain it right back and then some.

    Makes me feel like I have goddamned superpowers.

    Fuck all y’all. My journey from obesity to a healthy weight was one of the best, most empowering things I’ve ever done in my life, and I’ve maintained every pound of that weight loss, and I’m tired of hearing about what a bad person that makes me and how I’m doomed to eventual failure….wait for it…..any minute now…..you just wait…..you’re totally gonna get fat again you loser….HAHA NOPE! HATERS TO THE LEFT!

    -Formerly Fat

  462. You have a beautiful personality and no one will take that from you. I am sad for you that your defeatism has taken you to the extent of having to write the above to justify a failure. As a man who was once 300 lbs and now weighs 210, I want to encourage you to be your dream. Whatever it takes you need to physically feel how your heart of hearts tells you you should. One of the more profound thoughts I can leave you with is this: “Nothing tastes better than skinny feels.” Only the lucky who have been both can attest to that. Do it now my lovely, while you are young and can enjoy it. In time a large body is a prison and things become harder to do and acts become harder to enjoy and the unfairness is that weight is much harder to lose when your body shape sets in. Please heed my advice, I come with a gentle suggestion and don’t mean to disagree with you unless I really felt it’s something that really needed to be reconsidered.

  463. I have no opinion about Dan or Lindy, but I do love to read all the comments on these sorts of posts that claim that losing weight is impossible, anyone who tries is going to fail, that it takes 6 hours of exercise a day, that they know a fat vegan and therefore some people are simply destined to be fat (like you can’t overeat pasta?), that anyone trying to lose weight is simply brainwashed by magazines and that anyone who does manage to lose their extra weight will certainly gain it right back and then some.

    Makes me feel like I have goddamned superpowers.

    Fuck all y’all. My journey from obesity to a healthy weight was one of the best, most empowering things I’ve ever done in my life, and I’ve maintained every pound of that weight loss, and I’m tired of hearing about what a bad person that makes me and how I’m doomed to eventual failure….wait for it…..any minute now…..you just wait…..you’re totally gonna get fat again you loser….HAHA NOPE! HATERS TO THE LEFT!

    -Formerly Fat

  465. People come in all different colors, shapes, sizes, etc. Just a fact. There is no point in hating something. All that does is make things worse. I think love and acceptance are the way. I have several friends bigger me and many smaller than I am. I wouldn’t deny my friendships with any of them based on their sizes, or mine. They’re all beautiful women inside and out regardless of what size they wear. I support them in any endeavor they engage in and I don’t judge them or try to pretend like I have all the answers. I’ve struggled with my weight for the last decade and can tell you from my own experience that being bigger than “desirable” doesn’t always have anything to do with eating too much or moving too little. It’s not as simple for everyone as it is for some to lose weight through proper diet and exercise.

    The most judgemental people on the planet are often times the most wounded and least educated. Don’t take someone elses shitty life and lack of knowledge personally. Have sympathy for them like you would any other disadvantaged person.

  467. This is awesome and I can’t stop sharing it with everyone. I write a lot about body image stuff on my blog and I personally have struggled with self-acceptance since…uh, yeah, I realized I was not thin like I was “supposed” to be. I’ve felt pulled between desperation to become thinner and anger about being told every day in little and big ways that I don’t measure up because of my body size and wanting to have the attitude and feeling that I AM OK the way that I am. More than ok- that I am beautiful and I don’t have to spend every waking second trying to change my body to be beautiful.

    Thank you for this! Seriously, you kick all kinds of ass.

  468. This is awesome and I can’t stop sharing it with everyone. I write about body image stuff on my blog and I personally have struggled with self-acceptance since…uh, yeah, BIRTH. Once I realized I was not thin like I was “supposed” to be, I’ve felt pulled between desperation to become thinner and anger about being told every day in little and big ways that I don’t measure up because of my body size and wanting to have the attitude and feeling that I AM OK the way that I am. More than ok- that I am beautiful and I don’t have to spend every waking second trying to change my body to be beautiful. I want to be free of this fucking bullshit.

    Thank you for this! If we don’t all start loving ourselves and flipping the ridiculous beauty standards the bird how in the hell will anything ever change?

    You kick all kinds of ass.

  471. I like reading Lindy and Dan both and it’s weird and a bit sad to see so much of this comment thread playing out as “yeah fuck him, no fuck you!”

    I liked Lindy’s statement here a lot, but despite the links, can’t really see Dan as a fat-person-hater, but rather someone who is usually talking bout fatness in different contexts.

    I keep thinking of all the times I’ve heard/read Dan council boys who like fat girls to be cool with what they like and not treat their girls shitty out of shame from not following norms of attraction. That doesn’t sound like the advice of a fat-basher. Dan’s a sex advice columnist, and it seems to me like he has to work with the fact that in this society, thin is the attractive ideal — that’s a descriptive statement, not a normative one — and so where people diverge from that ideal either in their own appearance or their attraction to it, they can choose either to accept their current situation or do what’s in their power to change it. When it comes to fat people, “what’s in their power to change it” varies a lot between people.

  473. @466 (and all the others like you) – Congratulations. Since your experience is clearly universal, everyone who has a different experience from you is either lazy or lying (or both). We are all humans, right? So all our experiences are the same, or should be.

    In my life I’ve lost a bunch of weight and gained all of it back; lost even more and gained some of it back. Trying to lose that “some” now is much much more difficult than either significant loss was before (60-70 lbs. the first time, nearly 100 the second time). Whether it’s because I’m older now — they say it gets more difficult, but it’s probably a lie because you haven’t experienced it, or else old people are just making excuses for their laziness — or because it’s harder to give that much of a shit now.

  474. Get P90X and follow the workout and diet plan for 2 months. If you don’t lose weight or become fitter, I will send you enough money to cover the cost of P90X, the healthy food and then some. if you work out and eat right, you will look and feel better. If you don’t want to do that, it’s obviously fine. You can love your body all you want, more power to you. But don’t whine about how it’s impossible to lose weight.

    Anyone can lose weight and be fit with hard work and perseverance. Even people with medical conditions. I used to whine about having PCOS and blood sugar issues (“but it’s hereditary!”), then I stopped being a poor-me and got my ass in shape. Never been happier. It’s misleading and unethical for you to claim that diets don’t work and that you’ve tried to get in shape when those efforts have clearly been half-hearted. It is absolutely 100% possible to change your body, and the mental strength you gain from such an experience is amazing.

    Guess what, if you truly love your body and are happy with it, you won’t feel the need to be so defensive and write blog posts about it. You’ll just be happy and carefree, enjoying food and life. I have absolutely nothing but love for people who have found such self-love and acceptance. They shine from within. I’m sorry, but you simply don’t strike me as one of those people. You’re trying so hard to change the way the world sees you, but maybe instead you should change yourself or how you view the world. And please don’t lie to your readers about trying hard. Read some fitness blogs and you will see what trying hard really is.

  475. When people point out that fat is a result of being lazy and eating too much I have too wonder what their point is. Is liking food and disliking exercise some great moral failing?
    Really?
    It’s much more worse to mock others for how they look or act as the health police. Forget having to share a bus with fat people, who wants to be around those jerks?

    Thank you Lindy. We need your righteous rage.
    I’m so sick of how women especially are under this pressure to feel guilty and to atone constantly for trivial reasons. Is your body “gross”? How dare you! what a terrible person you are! You better be trying to lose weight! Fuck that.

  476. Wow, I love you. And fuck everybody that says, “Oh, you are just lazy, blah, blah, blah”

    One quick little note, too, most of the ppl I saw posting on here that they just cut out soda or beer and lost a ton of weight were guys. In case you didn’t already know this, men lose weight TONS easier than women. I went through two months of no soda, no alcohol, no fried junk (which I never eat anyway), 1100 calories a day, cardio 5 days a week, strength training 2 days per week, and lost a mere 5 pounds and 1% body fat. If it were easy, trust me we would all be doing it! I don’t know any fat girls that just LOVE being fat, but I know many that accept themselves for who they are. There is a difference.

  478. While I understood intellectually that people have different metabolisms, I never fully got it until I started dating my current boyfriend. I am 5’3, 130 lbs, he’s 6’0, 320 pounds. He literally eats less than me – it boggles my mind. He can go all day and forget to have lunch. If I did that my blood sugar would crash and I’d turn into a raging bitch.

    We are both vegetarian, eat healthy (no, neither of us subsists on pasta and we both think fast food is disgusting) and exercise. We just have very different metabolisms. So, yes, if I were to pull a Morgan Sperling and eat McDonald’s at every meal, I would gain weight, and if I went back to a healthy lifestyle I would lose weight. But that’s because I have a high metabolism to start with (perhaps like some of the proud “I lost 30 pounds” posters here.) I can’t imagine him eating any less and still staying alive!

    Luckily, I like fat guys, always have, though it took me a while to come out of the closet about it. Everytime I see Dan Savage I think “he’d be cute if he’d just gain a few pounds!” Scrawniness is so unsightly. 🙂

  480. Lindy’s Gorgeous. And us fat-bottom girls make the rockin’ world go round. Errrrrbody knows that. Haters are just jealous. NO one wrote songs about them scrawny bitches. 😉

  481. While I understood intellectually that people have different metabolisms, I never fully got it until I started dating my current boyfriend. I am 5’3, 130 lbs, he’s 6’0, 320 pounds. He literally eats less than me – it boggles my mind. He can go all day and forget to have lunch. If I did that my blood sugar would crash and I’d turn into a raging bitch.

    We are both vegetarian, eat healthy (no, neither of us subsists on pasta and we both think fast food is disgusting) and exercise. We just have very different metabolisms. So, yes, if I were to pull a Morgan Sperling and eat McDonald’s at every meal, I would gain weight, and if I went back to a healthy lifestyle I would lose weight. But that’s because I have a high metabolism to start with (perhaps like some of the proud “I lost 30 pounds” posters here.) I can’t imagine him eating any less and still staying alive!

    Luckily, I like fat guys, always have, though it took me a while to come out of the closet about it. Everytime I see Dan Savage I think “he’d be cute if he’d just gain a few pounds!” Scrawniness is so unsightly. 🙂

  482. Hurrah! Well said!

    @29 — I am truly sorry that you are so caught up in your own insecurity and self-hatred. I get that you are jealous of those of us who manage not to hate ourselves, regardless of what other people think. But that doesn’t give you license to be a dick. Sorry. Try not being a dick, and maybe you will like yourself more.

  483. Since I don’t have much to add that hasn’t been said, here is a sober (literally) recap of the comments that, IMHO, make sense:

    @401 Unregistered: If Dan were going to write a rebuttal, this would be it. And while I’m trying not to just be a blind apologist here, I’ve read the chapter in Skipping to G. that this person cites, and it’s true, the overall “feeling” in that chapter is not one of “ew,” but rather a discussion of unhealthy eating habits. In that chapter, Dan is honest about liking thin people, but not cruel.

    @406 Medeii: For what it’s worth, Kim has taught me a lot about blog commenting. Namely, that an anonymous platform shouldn’t be a license to say something you wouldn’t if your real name were attached. And her explanation of Dan’s weight issues (his own) jive with everything I’ve read of his.

    @411 Garrett: Agree, @434 Dave M: Good points.

    @448 Anne in MA: Good points, and especially this:
    “All that said, I’m not so sure about this equivalence between being fat and being gay. Setting aside the marriage thing, I’ve never heard of someone being beaten or killed by a couple of thugs for being fat, or having their parents drill into them that they are a moral abomination for being overweight. I’m not trying to be insensitive; I’m genuinely curious.”

    @gus (Good morning, of course!)

    FWIW, my personal take on this, after reading the original pots, as well as every comment, is:

    Lindy’s feelings are hurt. Sometimes, as an earlier commenter said, shame is warranted for bad behaviour, but in general, shame is just hurtful.
    I think Dan is blunt. Most of the time, that’s what makes his writing so enjoyable to read. I know I’m relatively new to slog, but I’ve read all of his books, and the archives, and yes, it’s very clear that his personal taste runs to tall and thin. It also runs toward people with penises. Does this make me feel like Dan finds me gross, personally? As a person in possession of a canned ham? Nah, really, it doesn’t bother me that a gay man would not be making the moves on me, I’ll get over it. And yet some people read his comments about women and hams, and take it very personally.
    Also, I understand what Dan has said about his own weight, as his story mirrors mine. I know that when I am vigilant about not eating too much, and getting exercise, my weight is good. When I slack off and eat whatever I want, I gain weight. For those of us in that category (thin when we work at it, overweight when we don’t work at it–no skinny genes, no glandular issues), it’s easy to look at the rest of the world and apply your own story to it.

    I like Dan’s caustic writing style, and while (if I were him) I’d probably apologize for hurting a coworker’s feelings, I wouldn’t want him to change the way he does things. It makes people think.

  484. @ 406,

    You see my statement as defending hurtful behavior. I don’t, at least that was not my intent. My intent was to 1) disagree that Savage has blessed genes for being thin, and 2) to ponder reasons for what I see is a disconnect between his writtings and his stated feelings towards individuals in his life, as my personal experience of him does not suggest that he is a cruel person who gets a thrill at victimizing others. It was food for thought only and never intended as a “defense” or “justification”.

    Thank you for sharing your opinion and thoughts, especially those directed towards my heart and my capacity to do more harm than good. Food for thought, indeed.

    Cheers.

  485. Jesus H. Christ. Lindy weighs 60 pounds more than me, even though we’re the same height and I’m a dude who lifts weights three times a week.

    Wow.

    All I can think about now, is how hard it would be to walk around for an hour with two thirty pound barbells strapped to my chest.

  486. Besides the fact that what COUNTS as “FAT” is so ridiculously subjective. I thought I was FAT during school. All the time. I look back, and I really really wasn’t. I just was a little bit rounder than the stick-thin girls on the soccer team.

  488. I don’t think it’s bad AT ALL that Dan writes about obesity: it’s a national health care epidemic. It’s all in HOW it’s said, as I & now many others have mentioned before.

    The fact that there are so many Stranger staff members on this thread, bravo-ing Ms. Lindy, leads me to believe she is far from alone in her opinion on this subject. & those folks know Dan IRL, not just his words.

  494. What the fuck. Why do people come in here and say “they’d hit it”, treating her as an object whether she’s fat or not? Sleazy sickos.

    Excellen post Lindy. Thank you.

  495. Lindy, you need to lose weight. It has nothing to do with peer pressure, fashion magazines, etc. etc. You shouldn’t be carrying over a 50 kilos more than your BWI index. It is really unhealthy, and you are going to have problems from joint problems to higher risk of Type II diabetes, to complications like cellulitis.

    To write that you need to lose 50 kilos (+/- 100 lbs), isn’t trying to mock you, or degenerate you. Much like if you are smoking three packs of cigarettes a day, I would say you need to stop it.

    I don’t think losing weight is the difficult part, I find keeping it off and maintaining the ideal BWI weight range is the tough part, which means sticking to eating properly after losing the weight.

    Just make a plan, still the best help are support groups, and good luck.

  496. I want in on this big old Lindy love party too! And for Dan, who I hope reads all these messages– it’s about being nice that’s all. How about you take a moment to remember that it hurts to be the recipient of meaness even when sugar coated with concerns about health so maybe you could like you know just stop that BS. It’s OK that blubber makes you wretch–homos make some people wretch but we would call then out as shitheads if they act on their personal squikness by bullying others. Can you see that?

  497. lindy, you should be given an award.

    i’m a tall skinny chicken legged looking thing and my partner is a hot and sultry chubby woman. i eat about 5000/6000 cals a day, work out maybe once a week and smoke a lot of pot. my girlfriend eats way less cals/day, works out significantly more than me and doesn’t drink alcohol or smoke pot. and guess what!! SHE’S STILL FAT!!!!!!!!!!! AND I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    so when people approach me and ask me what i do to stay so thin and how i must be the epitomy of everything healthy i burp in their face and spend the next tens minutes listing off all of my health problems and none of my gf’s.

    thin doesn’t equal healthy people.

    give me a girl with some meat on her bones!

  498. Lindy, ignore everyone here who’s telling you what a loser you are for being fat, and how they’re so much more awesome than you because they lost a bunch of weight and kept it off and now their life is so great and everything is rainbows and baskets of puppies. Ignore all the people here telling you that you’re lazy and stupid.

    Here’s why you should ignore them: they need you to hate yourself in order to feel better about themselves. See, when they were fat, they hated themselves. They latched desperately onto the idea that thin = happy, and they busted their asses to get thin. It’s pretty telling how they’re here spewing hate at you. Hate is how they keep you down. When you rise up like this and say “I reject the belief that being thin fixes everything,” you’re rejecting their entire worldview. Because, to them, being thin IS everything. If they had to be fat again, they’d probably kill themselves from the shame. Seeing someone like you turning the paradigm on its head totally throws them for a loop, so they spew hatred at you, because it’s all they know how to do.

    Pity them if you can… poor things.

  499. I want you to be my new BFF Lindy! =) You are amazing and all the fat bashers on here can go jack off to “men’s health magazine” or something. Who cares if “they” dont find it attractive, most INTELLIGENT women generally dont find assholes attractive, so it balances out! Keep doing what your doing and keep eating those burgers!! @483, LOVE IT! so true! Thick girls hold it down! 😉

  502. No one under 40 if they are clean & healthy is disgusting or ugly.
    You can always lose weight/or not, but Dan will never be 28 again.

  505. This is extraordinary! I’ve been increasingly out about being fat positive (and about being fat!), and while I try to root it in social justice values, etc, there are times when I just need to SHUT IT DOWN with people’s responses. This definitely helps me do that. So big, big thanks!

    Big thanks, also, for addressing Dan’s politics around fatness. As someone who works full-time in the LGBT rights movement, it’s been really disheartening to see how many of his arguments rely on bringing down other communities–like fatties, people of color, and trans people. Homophobia is legit. We don’t need to take down other marginalized communities (or appropriate their oppression) to prove how real our own oppression is. Arguments against queer parenting are fucked up and oppressive, we don’t need to argue against fat parenting in order to prove that point. Denying queer people legal protections like nondiscrimination laws or marriage equality is wrong on its own merits. We don’t have to oversimplify it and misappropriate it as being “separate drinking fountains” or “sitting at the back of the bus,” insulting communities who really did have to face those things.

    If you want some more thoughts on how fatphobia intersects with other types of oppression (racism, homophobia, sexism, etc), there’s a post here: http://yrwelcome.wordpress.com/2011/02/0&hellip;

  507. I read this article and I’m also aware of Dan Savage’s previous rants on obesity. Here’s where I stand on all of this:

    To my understanding, the basis of Dan’s rants on obesity are when overweight people either seek to make others responsible for their being overweight, OR, fail to be realistic about their actual size. I agree with him 100%.

    In my opinion, this article starts off on the wrong foot:

    “This is my body (over there—see it?). I have lived in this body my whole life. I have wanted to change this body my whole life. I have never wanted anything as much as I have wanted a new body.”

    o_0

    I’m 5’6″ and 245 (last time I weighed myself). I’m not the perfect weight for someone my height and I’m perfectly okay with that. As a person my size, there’s certain stuff that does not look good on me. An overweight person CANNOT wear the same stuff a thinner person wears and look good. They just can’t. I see this ALL the time when I observe portly men AND women trying to squeeze all of their rolls into clothing that does NOT complement their figure.

    FAT DOES NOT EQUATE TO SLOPPY.

    If you want to be fat, be fat, but LOVE you and be realistic about what being your size means. Don’t disguise your love for being fat under your own personal insecurities or laziness to change who you are, and don’t look for pity for being fat. Understand that everyone won’t love you for your choices. As long as YOU are happy with you and you’re able to live and function in society, and possibly find someone who likes you as you are, yahtzee.

    IF YOU DON’T LIKE YOU, CHANGE YOU.

    -30-

  508. FAT HECK NO you are adorable, , and YES i’m FAT and queer AND trans not to mention handicapted so i’ve got a LOT of strikes against me, BUT nowadays i’m HAPPIER then i’ve ever been i have friends that LOVE me just the way i am

  509. This is extraordinary! I’ve been increasingly out about being fat positive (and about being fat!), and while I try to root it in social justice values, etc, there are times when I just need to SHUT IT DOWN with people’s responses. This definitely helps me do that. So big, big thanks!

    Big thanks, also, for addressing Dan’s politics around fatness. As someone who works full-time in the LGBT rights movement, it’s been really disheartening to see how many of his arguments rely on bringing down other communities–like fatties, people of color, and trans people. Homophobia is legit. We don’t need to take down other marginalized communities (or appropriate their oppression) to prove how real our own oppression is. Arguments against queer parenting are fucked up and oppressive, we don’t need to argue against fat parenting in order to prove that point. Denying queer people legal protections like nondiscrimination laws or marriage equality is wrong on its own merits. We don’t have to oversimplify it and misappropriate it as being “separate drinking fountains” or “sitting at the back of the bus,” insulting communities who really did have to face those things.

    If you want some more thoughts on how fatphobia intersects with other types of oppression (racism, homophobia, sexism, etc), there’s a post here: http://yrwelcome.wordpress.com/2011/02/0&hellip;

  510. I read post @401 and jeez I hope that’s not Dan. The “Dan didn’t say that and didn’t mean that” parts are great but the “most dishonest post evar” stuff is churlish.

    If I were Dan I’d high-five Lindy for writing a great post that added to an important conversation and got people thinking (and generated a ton of traffic!). I don’t assume Dan’s upset by this at all. He’s probably reading these comments and cackling like the cat that ate the cupcake.

    Good work everyone!

  513. Lindy, thank you. Thank you.

    I am a fat woman. I am a loved and accepted fat woman. I am a loved, accepted and desired fat woman. I am me.

  514. Well said, Lindy! You come across as a very strong woman, who has endured and survived the grief that comes from not fitting into the “desired” body shape/type seen as ideal in our (somewhat warped and misguided) society. Keep fighting the good fight… and long live your awesome sense of humour 🙂
    Patty

  517. Why has it taken people this long to realize that Dan is a total asshole? He’s been an asshole FOREVER. Just because he might be on the right side of *some* issues doesn’t mean he isn’t an asshole. And that trite It Gets Better bullshit has only made him an even bigger, more self-satisfied, sanctimonious asshole who thinks he deserves a Nobel Peace Prize.

  518. @501, you absolutely nailed it. It’s totally possible to not torment and shame fat people if you’ve lost weight and they haven’t, but it requires having something to love about yourself besides the number on your scale.

  519. @513 Puty…I don’t think 401 was written by Dan, but perhaps by a good friend rallying to his defense?

    PS Cats don’t like cake, they like pie… 😉

  520. FAT HECK NO you are adorable, , and YES i’m FAT and queer AND trans not to mention handicapted so i’ve got a LOT of strikes against me, BUT nowadays i’m HAPPIER then i’ve ever been i have friends that LOVE me just the way i am

  521. This is a great post. I am 135 pounds and 5’4, not fat, but not too thin either and I quite frequently have thoughts where I feel bad about myself, where I am worried other people think I’m gross or a loser because my arms are a bit flabby. And I’m sick of it. I’m so tired of having to think about myself this way because society is so intent on shaming people. It takes up so much time, it’s unproductive, and I really, really wish I could just be happy with myself instead but still those thoughts constantly creep right back in. No matter how hard you try to be ok with the way you look, there’s always some fat joke on tv or someone saying there’s something wrong with you for not being stick thin. So thank you for being an inspiration. If more women like you speak up and call bullshit on shaming, maybe the next generation of women won’t have to spend their time being down on themselves every single day.

  522. @520: Dan has often confessed to being an asshole but everybody still likes him and nobody likes you, so ha ha.

    But today this is about Lindy. And everybody loves Lindy! Hooray!

    (Okay, some people probably like you @520. But they wish you were less crabby.)

    Canuck: The idea of cats liking cupcakes pleases me, but it’s true, my cat has never shown interest in cupcakes.

  525. Hello. 36 years old. Male. 5’11”. 174 lbs. here.

    I am overweight. The ideal weight for a man my height is 150 – 170 pounds. I will *celebrate* when I get to my target weight of 165 pounds. I’ve been as heavy as 197 pounds, and I hated it. I thought I’d die if hit 200, so I took action. I changed my diet, added more exercise to my week, and lost weight. It really does work.

    I’m not perfect. I have a weakness for wine. A weakness for cheese. I drink too much calorie-rich juice some weeks. And some weeks I don’t get in as much exercise as I should, and so I yo-yo around, which I really hate.

    But the yo-yo-ing is MY fault. It’s entirely connected to whether I have eaten right or exercised right. In fact, I should be exercising RIGHT NOW, instead of typing this post. But my point is that my yo-yo-ing is not my body’s fault. My body is not something I have to choose to “accept” on its own terms, or feel shame “about.” My body is something I have to choose to CONTROL, and when I need to feel shame, it’s shame over my loss of control (and how it shows on my body), not shame about my body itself.

    Lindy, I ADORE your writing. I think you are smart and hilarious and talented and creative and clever and totally, totally top-shelf as a writer. But you are wrong when you say “diets don’t work.” If you mean faddish, temporary diets, then yeah, those don’t work, but taking CONTROL of your diet is the only thing that really does work, when it comes to weight. That, and exercise.

    It’s totally rude for someone to comment that your body is “unsightly.” You are a beautiful woman. But it is not inaccurate to note that at 263 pounds your are unhealthily obese (just like its accurate to say that at 174 or 197 pounds I am overweight), and you need to take more CONTROL over your body — over the diet and exercise habits that shape your body.

    I also think Dan is a pretty good writer, and very good sex advice columnist. But I think he’s a rude bitch, and a shallow motherfucker when it comes to appearance. Not just on fatness but on lots of beauty and body-ideal issues. He’s never very helpful on that front, so fuck him all to hell. His opinions on attractives are cliched and irrelevant.

    But the facts on how to take control of your body are on his side. I wish you good luck. Please wish it to me too. I’m not where I want to be yet, but I’m really working on it. (You can do it!)

  526. @528 (et. al), you’re right, weight loss is pretty much invariably about getting into an S&M relationship with your body where you punish it for weaknesses. CONTROL the abs, TAME the thighs! “Autonomic” is just another word for LAZY! Look down on anyone who doesn’t feel like this is an attractive way to live!

  527. I gave this article a lot of thought and I cannot fool myself into thinking being fat is an acceptable way of being. There are way too many reasons not to be fat and I cannot think of a single reason why it would ever be okay to be fat. That being said, I do not believe we should ever shame family, friends, co-workers, strangers, and so on because of their weight. If solicited, we can help the ones we love with advice and support. Basically, though, it really isn’t anyone’s business.

  531. Amazing how many comment-writers find the need to to say “I’m fat and” or “I’m not fat but.” Go back and re-read, please, people. Your weight is your business. Full stop.

    Lindy, every part of you rocks. Every part of you will always rock, no matter what size you are or have been or will be. You go, girl.

  532. @532…Hmm…saying that weight is entirely a matter of self-control and avoidance of “weaknesses”, then claiming that this has nothing to do with moralizing or looking down on people…

    Dan? Is that you?

  533. Oh sweet Jesus that was awesome, Lindy! I need a cigarette — or a doughnut?! — after reading that! Long-time reader, first time commenter here… you are the custard in my eclair!

    @486, I enjoy reading your comments and fully appreciate your desire for promoting a more Kumbaya atmosphere, but I must respectfully disagree with you a bit with this observation: I don’t think the problem is Dan’s bluntness of speech so much as (what I and others perceive as) his hypocrisy. The IGB Project is about stopping the bullying and shaming of gay youth, and yet he appears willfully ignorant of his own tendency to bully and shame the plus-sized. It’s often more subtle than overt — which I argue is even more insidious in that people aren’t as likely to call him out on it. So Lindy finally gave him that long-overdue calling out — and huzzahs to her!

    Everybody has ugly prejudices they try to hide. Everybody is wrong sometimes. I’ll start having more respect for Dan once he finally owns up to this. But I’m not holding my breath.

    One last general observation: it;s interesting how commenters here who say extremely vicious, hateful things about gays tend to be anonymous, while the commenters who say extremely vicious, hateful things about fat people, do so more freely as registered. It’s as if that kind of talk is more acceptable when it’s directed at the overweight. Says something sad about our culture, I think.

    Anyway, cheers y’all!

  534. @501 is NOT spot on.

    @501 is knocking down straw men. Nobody here is saying that Lindy is a “loser” or they are “more awesome” than she is because of weight, or that “everything is rainbows and baskets of puppies” when you get thin, or that Lindy is “lazy and stupid” or that their “entire worldview” is that “being thin fixes everything.”

    Nobody here is saying ANY of that, but that’s what @501 has to pretend, in order to attack people who are quite sensibly pointing out that maintaining a healthy weight just happens to be a good habit (that can help maintain a healthy/happy life), because the facts simply aren’t on @501’s side.

    I don’t see a “spew of hatred” where you do @501. Sorry you see it that way.

  536. All the burger-commenters are assholes – so naturally tiny people are somehow ALLOWED to eat burgers, and naturally larger people aren’t? Fuck off, burger assholes! We are ALL allowed to eat burgers. BURGERS FOR EVERYONE.

  538. Lindy, Thanks. Man, it’s so hard to not resort to name calling but I think one is bubbling up out of my consciousness. It’s “closet hypocrite.” Hey, folks, don’t live in denial! If you don’t like to feel ashamed and oppressed but you are fine with other people feeling ashamed and oppressed, come out into the light! Just admit you are a hypocrite! No need to be closeted! Embrace your inner hypocrite! Wear it proudly! If you feel that your minority or oppressed group is better or more deserving of empathy than other minority or oppressed groups, just say so! That way we all can recognize you for exactly what you are, which is a hyprocrite. Just as I am proud to be a “smart-aleck” you should be proud to be a hypocrite.

  539. To all the Slog commenters who explained to me just how easy it is to lose weight, thank you so much. I’ve just been sitting around on my couch, stuffing myself with Cheetos and cupcakes and beer and wondering why I wasn’t getting any thinner.

    Look, the thing is that whether or not someone can lose weight doesn’t mean that they will or that you should expect them to. You may be thin, and good for you, but that doesn’t mean that you can look at someone who is overweight (like myself) and say “Ugh, lose some weight, fatty.” Well, actually, you can say that, but it makes you an asshole, not someone who is concerned for my health and well-being.

    I’m quite active, although you’d never guess by looking at me. I’ve tried all manner of strategies for eating and found that while I can lose weight if I am very careful about what I eat, I have to restrict my calrories way too much to sustain my level of activity. Since my activities are what make me happy and incidentally, healthier, I choose to do them and not worry too much about my weight. I still try to be reasonable and make smart food choices, but sometimes if I want a damn hamburger, I eat a damn hamburger. I am also stronger, have better endurance and cardiovascular health than I ever did when I was thin. But people still judge me because I’m carrying around an extra 50 pounds. I’ve talked to my doctor, and she said that she’d like me to lose somewhere around 25 pounds, but in general as long as I keep exercising regularly and don’t go overboard with eating or drinking, she thinks I’ll be fine.

    But the thing is that none of that is anyone else’s business. My being fat has nothing to do with you, just like my being gay is none of your concern.

  540. I don’t argue with people who I believe are arguing in bad faith, Daniel1979, and I believe you are arguing in bad faith. Take care, and have a nice day.

  541. @533, actually, that just reinforces the idea that skinny people must eat less than fat people. Not true.

    @Lindy, you are awesome.

    I expect the usual from Dan. He doesn’t enjoy looking at fat people, so he will act like his opinions about fat bodies are empirical fact — it’s not that he finds fat people gross, it’s that fat people ARE GROSS, FOREVER AND EVER AMEN.

  543. The whole “fat is unhealthy and makes people sick and die early and therefor it’s morally unacceptable to be fat and also EEEW and also YUCK” thing has always struck me as going in tandem with our cultures hyper weird obsession with youth and young bodies, and basically our cultural inability to come to terms with the fact that we are all going to die. (I also feel like you can replace “fat” with “getting old” in the sentence above- people seem to have the same weird squidqieness about old people’s bodies too).

    News flash: Every single person’s body is going to break down and decay. Putting all the time and effort into avoiding that seems to mean that you are missing out on lots of other things you could be doing, that it seems like Lindy is doing with relish- thinking about awesome, funny ideas (Lindy, you seriously have the best brain. I wish I could live in it), writing wickedly funny and insightful articles, eating amazing food, watching incredible movies, loving her life and her body and her experience in it.

    I’m a now overweight woman who used to be a much thinner woman with a ton of work and exercise. For what it’s worth, I would not go back to my thinner, more neurotic self- not when there is all this amazing life to be lived as is. Being moderately heavier doesn’t keep me from doing the stuff I love (hiking, dancing, fucking), it does keep me from being fair game to every dickish guy who thinks a skinny body is an invitation, and it means I get over the weird obsessive guilt that used to come along with eating food that was remotely pleasurable.

    If a person’s deal is that they enjoy working out and monitoring their food, and they enjoy their trim bodies- well, good for them. I don’t want them to stop. But if a person’s deal is that they feel they’ve got better things to be doing, that’s totally valid as well. Each of us know what parts of their life that they’ll look back on at the end of their days, should they be so lucky to live to a nice old age, and find the greatest source of contentment in. I suspect people who are in serious denial about the fact that their bodies aren’t going to be young and superfit forever are going to have a much harder time coping with the realities of aging, but I guess that bridge is theirs to cross when they get to it.

  544. Much, much love to Lindy! *smooch*

    Because it’s not just an awesome rebuttal and takedown of the fat h8ers, it’s done with wit, verve, and crisp-ass prose. Thou rockest, woman!

  548. Daniel1979, if you honestly can’t see the shittier comments here for what they are, then I can’t help you, and I can’t have an actual conversation with you. You’re here looking to score points off of people, and I don’t have time to waste on things like that. If that’s what you enjoy, more power to you, but you’re going to have to pick a fight with someone else.

    Have a good weekend!

  550. There is no “social justice” in being fat. You’re the product of a giant corporate push towards overconsumption and your very being exudes having succumbed to the will of the profit motive that is killing this country. Your physical form waddling down to the store is a manifestation of everything wrong with this country, just as much as the rail thin woman on the cover of any magazine. Don’t justify it. Understand it, work to fix it, and get over it.

    Complain about the “skinny” industry but remember the “fat” industry too. Quit thinking it’s acceptable. This is directed more towards the horrible commenters who are mistaking Lindy’s post for a call for fat acceptance.

  551. One more thing:

    Lindy, right now you can function fantastically well because you are 28 years old. Your body can handle the stress and the strain of the extra weight. In ten years, or twenty years, things may really start to get a lot more complicated for you.

    As you say, your weight and your PERSONAL health (not the health of all fat people) are your business alone. But please, please, please – don’t cut your nose off to spite Dan Savage’s face. Nobody stays young forever. Our bodies are machines, and if you abuse ’em you’ll get away with it while your body is new, but it will start to break down faster and faster.

    While Dan may be empirically correct in his arguments, I think he is much more interested in condemning fat people than changing them. To use a creepy Biblical analogy I heard from a scary website, Noah preached for 100 years before the flood and didn’t change a single mind…all he did was give people despair to go along with their agony, as they screamed “if I’d only listened!” when the waters closed in over them.

    I think that’s sort of what Dan may be expecting. I think he knows full well that the natural human reaction to criticism is rebellion and defiance – and sure enough, we see so many fat people saying “fuck you, I’ll live how I want.” My hunch is that Dan wants fat people to know they had a chance right as it’s too late to turn back, when they’re 55 and facing dialysis and hobbled by arthritis and taking handfuls of pills for diabetes, etc. Right as that chest pain strikes, that’s when Dan wants you to remember his accusatory warnings. They smack of punishment, of expectation of failure.

    The sad reality is that there’s valuable truth at the heart of it all, and it’s getting swept away in all the anger and condescension. It takes a delicate persona to support someone and actually kindle a desire for change instead of a reflexive and self-destructive adolescent defiance. Dan’s not the man for the job. He’s a Noah, not a Buddha.

    Good luck Lindy. I think your post will become iconic, but always remember you don’t have to please anyone (Dan Savage, the ‘fat acceptance’ movement, me) but yourself.

  552. @435: I am healthy and active. That’s why I stayed in on a Friday night – I chose to cuddle up with my SO rather than go out drinking with my friends because I get up early every morning and do yoga, walk, or make wholesome homemade bread.

    I also happen to be thin but feel fat and struggle with accepting my body, oh, almost EVERY GODDAMN DAY. Because this ‘debate’ is not really about health. It is about promoting impossible standards that make people feel like shit and make them more apt to spend money on bullshit products and services. And I know that if I wasn’t blessed with good genes, despite my high activity level and healthy food choices, I would be fatter than the day is long, because I FUCKING LOVE TO EAT. As most people do. The haters are either: A. smug ascetics who don’t derive enjoyment from food and thus don’t understand why everyone doesn’t get up at 5 am to drink a protein shake and then run for ten miles only to have a three ounce portion of fish for lunch and a dinner of brown rice and egg whites or B: snarling ex-fats who want everyone to join them in their self-hating misery so they don’t have to look wistfully at the delicious, if corpulent, life they left behind.

    I struggle with internalized fat-phobia all the time, despite being primarily attracted to curvy/chubby women; it’s my own horror of having a socially unacceptable body that keeps me from feeling fully comfortable in my own skin (how pathetic is that – allowing myself to be imprisoned by the opinions of asshole strangers rather than accepting the love and affirmation of my friends, partner and family?).

    Lindy’s post is a resounding call to freedom from the ridiculous societal standards that deem even my thin body ‘too fat’; too fat for TV, too fat for the runways and too fat to relax and enjoy life. FUCK THAT.

    I love you Lindy and I thank you.

  554. I thank you so much for writing this!
    I am adding myself to the chorus of “I love you!”
    But I have one BIG BIG question! How did you get from the place in the first paragraph from the statements in the last? I would give ANYTHING to be able to feel that way, to stop feeling shame.

    Thanks again!

  556. As someone who has been fat (200 lbs at my heaviest) and is now thin I can tell you that you’ll hate your thin body just as much as you hate your fat body. In fact you probably won’t even be able to see yourself as a thin person because you’ve always been a fat person. It was one of the most depressing realizations that I ever came too. I know I’m thin because the scale tells me I am, but my mirror tells me I’m fat. It’s not about fat or thin, it’s about healthy. Mental and physical. I got the physical under control but I’m still working on the mental.

  557. I thank you so much for writing this!
    I am adding myself to the chorus of “I love you!”
    But I have one BIG BIG question! How did you get from the place in the first paragraph from the statements in the last? I would give ANYTHING to be able to feel that way, to stop feeling shame.

    Thanks again!

  558. Okay do people realize that the point is, well yes you can have your opinion, but who said they want to hear your negative opinion?? Saying something is “unacceptable” is only decided by you or the corrupt media. Nobody made a rule book on what’s “acceptable.” If you go along with every standard the media makes, that just means you’re stupid and brainwashed. If it’s going to hurt someone, keep it to your damn self.

    There’s probably something wrong with the way you look too, but people aren’t going to openly discriminate you for it are they? If you don’t agree with something, like this blog post, don’t be an asshole about it. Just move on.

    And do you also realize being overweight or obese can be genetic? No I don’t mean having fat parents, but some people have thyroid conditions that affect their metabolism, etc. So don’t judge people you don’t even know and say that they’re lazy.

  560. @373: So would you argue that I should happily cede as much of my seat to the person next to me as they wish to take? No one’s arguing that the airline seats are small, but that doesn’t then automatically make it okay to just take the seat of the person next to you. Two wrongs seldom make a right.

    I don’t think ANYONE is taking a pro-“harassing fat people in public is okay” position here. NO ONE thinks that is okay. However some of us are concerned about aspects of the “fat acceptance” movement that require non-fat people to accommodate fat people past the point of it being an imposition. As I first said way back in Comment #164, giving up a significant portion of my bus or train or theater or plane seat to a fat person is not me “accepting” them, it’s them imposing on me, literally.

    Speaking of, the argument that the airline seats are too small for anyone, and that makes everything okay, is silly and misleading. Yes, it’s a true statement, but that doesn’t mean that asking me to give up 10-30% of my already-inadequate seat to the person next to me is a reasonable expectation.

    So far the responses to the “airline seat” question have completely avoided addressing my central question: is it fair to make me give up part of my seat to accommodate the needs of a fat person, and if so, why is that okay?

  561. While I’m burning bridges here…

    Many people’s descriptions of their dieting indicate some methods that will almost always lead to failure. Severe caloric restriction leads to the body going into “starvation mode” and desperately holding onto fat reserves while also reducing metabolism to a crawl. The key to consistent weight loss is not weird fad diets or starving yourself, it is to run at a consistent caloric deficit while eating enough to avoid going into that starvation mode.

    My partner and I have been trying out http://www.myfitnesspal.com/ for the past few months, and although I hate the cutesy name, I love that it’s a nice basic system of tracking calories in order to cause slow, steady weight loss. For instance, I’m trying to lost weight, and with my height, weight and age, the program says I need 1480 calories a day. Not 500, not 100; no, I need to get as close to 1480 (and maybe a little over) every day to lose weight. In addition, if I work out and burn 200 calories, I now need to eat 1680 that day to compensate for the extra calories consumed by working out. This has caused me to look forward to working out, since I can then splurge a bit that day.

    There are no restricted foods, and nothing is off limits if it fits into your caloric total for the day. Yesterday I had half a piece of cake. Last week we went out for steak and mashed potatoes. The program is available for free for the iPhone and Android at http://www.myfitnesspal.com/mobile, and I’d highly suggest downloading it and giving it a try if you’re curious. You can also just use their web site if you don’t have a smart phone. I don’t work for them, nor do I get anything for suggesting them, but having already lost some weight on the program while continuing to enjoy eating, I feel strongly about it being a good, healthy approach to changing my eating habits for the long term. It doesn’t feel like a diet, it feels like a way to learn healthy eating habits.

  564. Exactly how I feel, said better than I ever could, being shared with everybody I know.

    Thanks for making the world a better place with your big fat wonderful brain. <3

  567. @51 I love you. And I feel exactly how you feel.

    LINDY! This made my day. Well said. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. People really do need to hear this stuff.

    To all the people speaking for Gay people around the world…. shut up. Being Gay make each gay person the same, much like being black or white or yellow blue or orange doesn’t. You can tell Lindy that she’s wrong for saying what she’s said, but that’s just how you feel. I’m pretty sure that if she says it about HERSELF, it’s right.

  568. I was way back at 144, checked back a few times, and now its over 530 – fabulous!

    Lots of cathartic posts here – very heart felt and thougthful (mostly) on all sides. My point is that this is, obviously, a very important subject, and it’s nice to see the whole slog community “weigh in” so to speak. I particularly love the many very long posts, and pledge that I have actually read or quickly scanned each one to get the gist of the arguments.

    Body image and weight cut across all of humanity, through gender and age and race and ethnicity and sexuality and physical ability. I echo those many posts above that the core issue here is respect and understanding, and that each individual should be given the opportunity to be free from snap judgments that too many citizens place on whole groups of their fellow life travelers. I think we should apply this courtesy to everyone.

    I believe you should respect an individual that belongs to a group of people that may make you uncomfortable at first blush, and give that person a chance before you form an opinion. AND, I don’t think you need to find someone attractive or want to have sex with him to extend that respect. I also agree with all of those who point out that true change comes from within, and external pressures rarely lead to life changes.

    I am glad we all are having this discussion – it really helps. Thanks again, Lindy.

  570. This is so wonderful. And I cannot believe some of the awful comments you’re getting. They remind me of how stupid and mean people can be—and yet how proud they can be of themselves for that stupidity and meanness.

  571. The idea that Lindy is comparing her personal issues with the struggles of being queer makes her argument entirely suspect. Her post makes me feel used. What a completely cheap and irresponsible analogy, Lindy.

  572. Ooh ooh, I want to comment too, too!

    Fat is relative. What’s most important is the weakness of mind that makes one think they need to conform to other people’s standards simply for acceptance. Note though that this weakness of mind is also relative; the vast majority of people have it in some form (I am one of those people).

    What is not weak is doing what one can to be healthier. This “health” is not about appearance. Instead, it is the modern idea that everything about oneself, the physical, mental, economis, et al attributes, need to be in a harmonious condition of well-being for one to truly be in an optimal state.

    And on and on… I like girls of all sizes, blah blah blah, I’m thin but gaining weight, blah blah blah, some of my best friends are cats…

  575. Love the whole post except for the part about what conservatives think, which sounded sorta bigoted and shallow. That’s not what conservatives think. Clearly our behavior impacts that of others, which is why being self-sufficient as an individual is important.

    I’ll forgive that, though, because you are awesome.

  576. Love the whole post except for the part about what conservatives think, which sounded sorta bigoted and shallow. That’s not what conservatives think. Clearly our behavior impacts that of others, which is why being self-sufficient as an individual is important.

    I’ll forgive that, though, because you are awesome.

  577. And now it is time for Dan Savage to realize he has disqualified himself from speaking again on the subject of fat.

    At some point in the past, he was no doubt duly invited to weigh in with his opinions on size. And he has even pointed out some valid criticisms of some exponents of the fat acceptance movement. And it is reasonable for some people (but never again Dan Savage) to wonder why all of a sudden in the last few years Americans have gotten so much fatter than the rest of the world — it can’t only be genetics.

    The disqualifier is that along with that, Savage has — see Lindy’s links to Dan’s writing — expressed clear disgust at fat people, shamed them with thoughtless cruelty, and unfairly judged their character, self respect, willpower and honesty. Not to mention practicing medicine without a license on people who are not his patients.

    That shouldn’t stop other people, people who haven’t poisoned the air, and people who maybe even can speak from personal experience, from having a frank conversation about fat. But if you’re one of the guys like Dan Savage whose words, in total, have caused more harm than good, it’s time to bow out, focus on things that you can do some good with, and shut up about fat.

  579. Thank you for your courage, your humor, and your overall awesomeness, Lindy! Rock on!

    As a relatively thin person who has always struggled with her weight and a messed up body image, I can only hope to have your level of body acceptance someday. You’re beautiful!

  580. “fatties, people of color, and trans people.”

    It’s the identity politics train run amok, running down the aisle, slapping everyone on the head with under arm fat!

    Come to think of it , Rosa Parks was a little portly, maybe that’s why they made her sit at the back of the bus?

  581. Former fatty here. 5’7, 250 was my highest. Lost about 100lbs in about 10 months, kept it off for 7 years now.

    In other words, “wanting” to not be fat doesn’t make you not fat.

    Oh, and if you aren’t trying to get your dream job or find your clothing style NOW, then you’re going to still be a failure after you lose weight.

  582. As a man in this society that LOVES plus size women in every way, I gotta say, I’m pretty goddamn sick of the d-bags out there that think it is okay to belittle anybody in a public forum for ANY reason, much less subjective standards of beauty. All you do when you make public declarations of fat-phobia embarrass yourself. All you are doing is proudly displaying your own weakness, your own misunderstanding of neurological relativity, your own desperation to be accepted by d-bags such as yourself, your own failure to escape the programming you underwent as a child to belittle that which society scared you into believing, your own inability to stand up to the herd, and your own ignorance of the FACT that you are latching onto fat-phobia in order to validate your own contempt for people in general. Do yourself the favor and think twice before you put that unfortunate opinion of yours out into the ether, you are hurting others, and in turn hurting yourself. You don’t need anymore enemies.

  583. 581, don’t be silly. Dan Savage is a good and prolific writer, a super-hardworking decent fellow, and not likely to ever shut up about whatever takes his fancy. The point here is not to silence him and his ilk (not that he has an ilk, just us legions of fans). The hope I hold is that this sharp poke from a superior writer will move him along a bit from his heavily fortified position on this topic..

  585. @487, Kim from Portland: I can see it both ways–communication is my profession. I wanted to let you know that many people will regard your initial post as a defense, but I didn’t mean to ascribe any additional motive to your comment than what you yourself professed (namely, love.)

    If I came down too heavily on one interpretation, I apologize. However, I appreciate your willingness to consider what I said about your capacity for harm, despite your obviously good intentions.

    @486, Canuck: I agree that more people need to think about the potential damage one can do when being anonymous. (Although, if you were implying that I’d be afraid to say anything I’ve said in this thread to someone’s face, please note that I would feel no compunctions about doing so.) And I, too, admire both Kim in Portland’s resolve and her capacity to remain calm in the face of slander.

  587. Opinion is subjective, but facts are facts. Reality doesn’t change because you want to feel better about yourself and delusion on that level is just the kind of hipster American BS that you expect to see these days. People are fat for a few primary reasons. Diet, lack of exercise, and genetics. Chances are, if your mom and dad are “roomy” or “big boned” then you stand a good chance of developing those traits as you grow up. However it is also not uncommon to see two heavy parents with average sized children, leading one to observe that it is not only upon heredity that the condition rests, but also in LIFESTYLE.

    If you spend more than four hours a day at a computer for whatever reason then you are already putting yourself at risk. The human body is not designed to live the kind of lives that we afford ourselves these days, we are meant to be constantly moving, walking, running, jumping, lifting, and pushing. If we weren’t, then we would simply be gelatinous blobs of sentience that remain stationary and would not have evolved the skeletal and muscular structure that we have. Come to think of it, some of us are already on our way to this phase of existence.

    Living is nice. I enjoy it. Thousands of confident religious and economic doctrines exist and yet one only need adhere to the simple basis of “living is good” because you don’t get to do anything when you are dead. As such, I keep regular track of my health and exercise to keep my limbs from turning into goop. You are fat and happy with your body, that is great. You should be happy with your body. We should love our bodies enough to think hard and long about what we feed it and keep it in good order, because the ugly truth of the matter is that we are ANIMALS, despite all of our self-important belief and minute accomplishment, we are animals. Our body’s health has a profound effect on our psychological acuity which in turn also effects our physical health, and since you brought up the “mental health” issue that seems to be most prevalent argument against the “Thin Movement.” You have to break the cycle somewhere.

    I am a male, I am 5’8″ and at one point weighed 238 pounds and was suffering from onset clinical depression by the time I was 19. Since I didn’t have much in the way of a social life, I turned inward and began to develop other skills. I learned to write, draw, paint, and balance chemical equations. One day I stumbled upon a book that contained a list of virtually everything I was eating and why it was horrible for me. Slowly, steadily, I changed the way I lived and sure enough, results soon followed. It didn’t start out with rapid weight loss, oh no, it started with FEELING BETTER. I dropped grains and dairy from my diet, kept to fresh vegetables and fruits as well as lean, organic meats (this was difficult to find a decade or so ago) and last but not least EXERCISE.

    If you arent’ burning calories then you are wasting your time with a diet. You don’t have to go to the gym to start, you simply start walking. You walk as much as you can. Move your arms, push and lift things around the house. Go up and down your stairs and take walks around your neighborhood, get to know the people in it. Stretch, for heaven’s sake, stretch your limbs and get blood flowing to them or you’ll injure yourself. If you are very heavy and find walking rough on your feet, they make shoes that are worth the investment, and there are a myriad of exercises you can do from your own bed that help.

    In six months, having cut out all the junk from my diet and drinking nothing but water, I had lost twenty pounds. Twenty damn pounds, 218 pounds for the first time in my life and it was at that point I knew that I had to step it up. I bought a couple of kettlebells and started running. There will never be a number high enough to count the times I vomited and collapsed while learning to run, I discovered that I was borderline asthmatic, but doing so has been a worthwhile decision. I am now at 183 pounds and can finally run two miles without catching on fire.

    It can be done. All you have to do is work for it. It isn’t easy. It is going to suck. But there is a payoff at the end, and that payoff is your doctor looking at you and saying “You dodged the bullet with diabetes and heart disease didn’t you, son?”

  588. @581, The Wretched Harmony: I don’t think Mr. Savage has disqualified himself, so much as he has squandered precious goodwill by alienating a segment of his readership. He still has plenty of opportunities for apology, and (hopefully) many years ahead where he can behave more politely and professionally.

    Besides, if one incidence of bad behavior was enough to damn someone forever, I’m sure I wouldn’t have lived past age six. We can criticize Mr. Savage, but we also need to offer him the chance to make amends.

  589. @450: 1. Statistics don’t lie. 2. I don’t eat potato chips or $1 burgers, stop projecting your stereotypes onto me. 3. Related to #2, I am not lazy, either. Fuck you.

    BTW, let see where you are in 5 years’ time. I’d bet money that weight will all be back, and then some. There’s an 80-90 percent certainty of that.

    Lastly, as this is Darwin Day, I will point out that a thrifty metabolism is meant to be an evolutionary advantage. In famines, it’s us fatties who survive, while the rest of you scrawnies wither away. Oh well, at you’ll die pretty (in your minds, anyway). Yes, granted, such is not presently an advantage, as food is all too plentiful. However, we may very well see worldwide food shortages in our lifetimes. Stay tuned!

  590. For #2 and all the other “you just need to eat less crap and work out more” people… I don’t eat candy, cookies, doughnuts pie or ice cream EVER. I haven’t had anything with real sugar in it in over 10 years, also no fried or deep fried foods. I hate pizza and burgers and fries. Everything that I eat is either steamed or raw… mostly it is fresh veg, salads with out dressing, fruits and rice. I don’t use sauces or gravies. I don’t drink any alcohol. I don’t do all of this to lose weight… I do it because that is how I like to eat. I am 47 and I weigh 230 pounds and am 5 feet tall. I have eaten this way for longer than I can remember. All of my friends eat crap all of the time… some are fat and some are not… there seems to be no correlation between what my friends weigh and what they eat. My skinniest friend eats the same way as my fattest friend. I weigh the same as a friend of mine who eats burgers and pizza and drinks beer all of the time. Last year I walked 3 miles every other day… the alternating days I swam laps for an hour. I gained 10 pounds last year. If you could explain all of this to me that would be AWESOME!

  591. It’s a judgment on your discipline not on your fatness. You wanted your entire life to be thin but lacked the will power to do it. I’ll make my own silent assumptions based on that fact.

  593. Stopping in from the Portland Mercury to say excellent work. I’m really tired of Dan Savage’s curt, selfrighteous, my-way-or-the-highway attitude, and I think you (and everyone else who feels marginalized but not necessarily in the ways that are immediately apparent to the Savage’s of the world) need to have your voice heard.

  594. Ok Lindy you’re “fat” (it’s all relative) and yes Dan is an insensitive prick. However it’s still true that becoming obese is not healthy. If you are always “fat” does that mean you should not watch what you eat and not exercise and make yourself obese ?

  595. So, how many people on Slog have had the opportunity to say……………600!

    *or, you know, close to 600 if I timed it wrong.

    **and whatEVER, gus, don’t even say hi, talk to the hand…

  597. This is fantastic. I’ll refrain from writing extensively about what I think about Dan Savage’s hurtful, harmful statements. However, what I do wish is for him to pour some of the loving, compassionate, social justice minded spirit he poured into the It Gets Better Campaign into his understanding of the ways in which the health and well-being of women and girls suffer from society’s obsession with weight.

    When will people realize that what we’re doing is harming girls and women to the point where they are killing themselves?! There have been reports, studies, endless research into how the sexualization of girls and women in popular media leads to depression, anxiety, unhealthy sexuality, eating disorders. Yet we continue to tell girls and women that their worth depends upon the way they look first and foremost. We continue to pretend that we’re just concerned with health! It’s total bullshit and if men like Dan Savage could step back from their closed-mindedness for just a moment they’d see that it’s causing generations of women and girls to hate themselves with a passion; causing girls and women to harm themselves by starving themselves, eating unhealthily, living in a world of constant shame.

    I am inspired and uplifted and empowered by Lindey’s piece and I hope she continues to speak out!!

  598. Aaaaannndd.. Lindy Wins The Entire Internetz. FOREVAH.

    Like people were saying last week about the National Anthem
    (“No one after Whitney Houston ever needed to sing that song again!”) — no one ever needs to say anything about Da Fatness in Amurka again, after this. Somebody starts flapping their jaws, just slide ’em a link to this ReVoLuTionAry post from Ms Lindy West, Seattle Washington, February 11 2011, 3:53pm.

    Ever and Ever Amen.

    🙂

  599. haha, implying you can’t change how much you weigh. if you put half the effort you used to make this article you could also be a slim gorgeous person like myself. go choke on a donut you ignorant cunt.

  600. Goddamn, you people are stupid. Losing weight is easy, you idiots.

    I went from 220 lbs to 155 lbs in a year. I started lifting weights after that, and I am now 180 lbs at 10% body fat. I went from a fat faggot to a lean, fit guy in less than a year.

    Stop making excuses, and get off your goddamn couches.

  601. You never once said how much you eat. Metabolism isn’t a some sort of mystery, eat less than what your metabolism needs to run your body and you will lose weight. It’s fucking science not magic.

  603. Huzzah to you, Lindy! My fatness isn’t a strain on anyone. I’m not inherently unhealthy (I’m vegetarian! And I’m not even a carbotarian at that!) and I’m so tired of being judged for the way I look. I didn’t make the choice to be shaped like this, much as many of you believe. I got chubby sometime in grade school and it’s never gone away. I was very active as a child and I’m still quite active.

    My doctor’s checked me out and he’s told me that the only thing that’s physically wrong with me is I’ve got a couple of vitamin deficiencies from not eating meat.

    I have a lot of respect for Dan in most other areas but in this one? It’s always grated on me. To him, fatness is a choice for -everybody-. To hundreds of asshole conservatives, homosexuality is a choice. Neither of these things are true.

    Also, even if it WERE a choice, who the fuck are you to judge me based on a choice I’ve made about my own body? There are some choices that people make about their physical person that I think makes them look terrible, doesn’t mean I give them nasty looks and make them feel ashamed of themselves.

  605. @603-605, as well as any other /b/astards here:
    Coming from here?
    Find something better to do on /b/. This thread is enough of a trollercoaster without you newfags. Also, you just lost the game.

  606. Being fit–including being not too under OR overweight–is a lifestyle choice, not just a phase that you can go through a while & expect it to stay that way forever. It takes a steel resolve to constantly make decisions that are the best for your body, whether it be not smoking or not drinking yourself blind. Quoting statistics of these “failure rates” as a means to dissuade people from even bothering to make better choices is ABSURD. If you do it for the health & not the societally prescribed notion of “attractive,” then you are more likely to keep it off. & you should at least try, damn. Lindy your words were powerful. But among the most vulnerable are the teenage girls & boys being taught lessons of self-perception. Learning to love your body is essential, absolutely, but loving your body includes treating it well, & having others respect you all the same.

  607. @606 Ask not what Slog can do for you, but what you can do for Slog. I will do my part, even if I have to take multiple breaks from my very important life (vacuuming, supervising a brisket, reading other blogs) to do so.

    By 800 comments, we should be talking about circumcision, and by 900 comments, we should be talking about Nazis, and by 1000…hopefully a good pie vs. cake war.

  608. @594, it sounds like you eat almost no fat or protein, and that your diet is entirely carbs. I really think there’s something to the idea that the vast majority of overweight people (not your thin friends, just those of use who tend this way) can’t handle the modern carb-heavy, grain-heavy diet. I really don’t think it’s at all about “eat less/exercise more”, even though we hear that from all corners. It’s short and pithy and fits our Puritan background (gluttony/sloth), but may be dead wrong.

    I know that personally, if I go very low carb, my food cravings go away and what I used to think were character weaknesses vanish within a few weeks and I can resist overeating, my weight goes down, and my bloodwork all improves, even though I’m eating such allegedly evil things as saturated fat. And my energy levels are stable and I can go hours without eating and feel fine. But if I don’t, I put on weight, almost automatically, and find myself much more preoccupied with food and eating, and my energy goes up and down, and I need to eat every few hours to not feel exhausted. I’ve talked with friends with alcohol problems and it amazes me how similar the two situations are in a lot of ways…cravings that go away with abstinence, widespread belief that the problem is moral weakness or lack of control, focus on mental health for a largely physiological problem, and on and on.

    I second the suggestion to check out “Why We Get Fat” or the much more detailed “Good Calories, Bad Calories” by Gary Taubes. He also has a lecture online (done at Swedish) covering a lot of the material that’s now in WWGF:

    http://videomedia2.swedish.org/mediasite&hellip;

    In general, I’m all with accepting yourself as you are and living your life, but also think it’s still best to be as healthy as you can be and not give up on the idea. People talking about diets failing are themselves failing to recognize that what they’re talking about are usually all calorie-restriction diets. I’m not talking about dieting, I’m talking about avoiding food that some of us, due to drawing a certain genetic stick, can’t handle. And keeping an open mind: more than one poster above posted about being vegetarian as proof that they’re eating in a way that shouldn’t make them fat. Please keep an open mind and don’t uncritically buy into the majority opinion on this one issue when most of us think for ourselves on just about every other subject. Just because something goes against the status quo doesn’t automatically make it incorrect or quackery

    And to me Dan seems to exhibit the same thing I’ve seen countless times in threads here and elsewhere – people who have some overweight in their families, or themselves have struggled with an extra 15-20 pounds at some point, or were perhaps fat as children (I was rail thin…what’s that got to do with anything?), thinking that they therefore have been through what any overweight person has been through but just made the correct choices and did the work, that they too would be 100 pounds overweight if they’d just not STUCK TO IT. So they therefore feel, incredibly, to be justified to go on about fat people and how it’s all their fault and ICK. Meme Roth is a prime, vile example. It’s not an attractive attitude.

  610. Hey…I think that the character attacks are pretty fucking vile. I also think that your weight doesn’t reflect upon your character in any way, and I don’t think that in any way you being overweight makes you ugly, it just makes you fat. I won’t sit here and judge you for the choices you make, and I’d appreciate the same. I think that the reason why people are so disgusted by obesity even though it is one of the most common diseases in our society, is because it is just that- a disease. Being sick doesn’t make you a lesser person it just makes you sick. Good luck with all of your life, you seem like an intelligent, witty, lovely young woman.

  611. 614, it’s not a disease. It’s a choice. What would the disease be? Everything tastes good? What, everything except salads?

    Stop making excuses.

  613. @615, are you assuming that everyone who’s thin is so because they have more discipline than everyone who’s overweight? “Stop making excuses” is the same crap I was just talking about in my giant post a couple up – people who are self-satisfied about not being overweight and think it reflects their moral superiority (or who are self-loathing and think they invited it). Why would someone decide, oh, I think I’ll get really fat? Society will hate me, but, hey, food. It just doesn’t make any sense. And if it doesn’t make any sense, there has to be a different explanation. I posted at length about one I think passes the sniff test, even though it doesn’t match the mainstream gluttony/sloth decree.

  614. “But this is what’s behind this entire thing—it’s not about “health,” it’s about “eeeewwwww.” “

    “Fat people already are ashamed. It’s taken care of. No further manpower needed on the shame front, thx.”

    I don’t even know what to say but thank you, Lindy x 1,000,000

  615. Canuck, I’d just finished vacuumed as well when I read your 606, so to continue the mind-meld i must now go find a brisket.

    My $0.02 (as kim in portland would say) is that by 1000 comments, after a good round of pie v. cake we may be needing a Kelly O. video documenting a Dan and Lindy dance-off.

  616. Can we agree that if you’re thin, even if you’re right that fat people are overweight because they aren’t as evolved and disciplined as you, that it’s ugly to go around spouting off about that? I don’t happen to at all buy into this line of thinking, so to me you just look idiotic when you say things like that, but even if you were right, it’s ugly and unpleasant.

    I wonder if it falls into a human desire to not want to think that things happen to people randomly. Fat people bring it onto themselves, therefore it’s not something to concern yourself with or feel empathy about. It reminds me of a lot of the thinking that was flying around after 9/11 about the Muslim world…they’re just evil and they hate us, so there, that’s simple.

  617. @569: I haven’t read Taubes’ “Why we get fat”, although it’s on my list. I understand it to be a more acessible version of his older book “Good Calories; Bad Calories”, which, although it sounds like a cheesy diet book, is actually a rather deep and interesting bok. It changed a lot of my thinking on the topic if obesity and diet-induced illness. In particular, he is very impressive in how he takes on the “calories in minus exercise out = delta weight” simplistic viewpoint. If you are of a scientific bent, I really recommend GCBC.

  618. Lindy, you are awesome and you are right.

    Dan has right points but that does not make him entirely right.

    Expecting everyone to do something that our system and society have made it difficult to do is just not sane and not fair.

  619. Lindy – thank you for writing this article.

    I feel that you identify the issue that we seem to all be ignoring. This is about loving our bodies. When you love your body and recognize everything it does for you on a daily basis, you ultimately respect it more and take better care of it. If you are in a happier place emotionally and mentally, your body will follow.

    As for the negative people on this thread, don’t ever assume you know why someone is a certain way or in a certain situation. You wouldn’t want someone doing the same to you or accept it in other situations. You would say that someone was being racist, sexist, etc. I have a great example to remind me of this….I have a friend who weighs about 200 lbs. Someone made a negative comment to her about her weight in a group setting. Basically, a comment that she was fat because she was lazy. Well….guess what, that isn’t why she weighs 200 lbs. Her weight doubled, yes doubled, because of the medications that she has to take every day due to the fact that she has had a life saving transplant. So, DON’T MAKE ASSUMPTIONS and try treating people as you would like to be treated. It is as simple as that.

  620. I’ve always loved your writing, and thank you for writing this. I’m 5’3″, was 276 pounds and am now 187 but I still get tons of unsolicited comments and prejudice about my weight, and it’s those comments, and not the weight that’s really weighing me down. You go, girl! And by the way, I think you’re gorgeous. If you were a little bit older and queer (which maybe you are, I don’t know), I’d ask you out : )

  621. I’m a short chick with small tits and pale freckled skin. Some people don’t find that attractive. WHO THE F*CK CARES!?!?!?!?!?!

    Lindy you are beautiful! Quit giving a shit about what lame ass losers think about you!

    THAT GOES FOR ALL OF YOU SLOG COMMENTERS GODAMMIT! QUIT GIVING A SHIT ABOUT WHAT THAT STRANGER THINKS WHO GAVE YOU THE STINK EYE FOR EATING TWO KING SIZE SNICKERS IN A ROW ON THE BUS OR FOR SINGING IN THE GROCERY STORE OR FOR DANCING IN THE STREET OR FOR WEARING ONLY PURPLE SHOES AND SOCKS.

    And why doesn’t anyone ever mention the LSD diet? Want to lose some weight? Take some acid – you’ll come back to earth AT LEAST 5 pounds lighter, guaranteed.

  623. Yes, gus, get thee to a brisket! (Our brisket courtesy of the freezer, and Mr. Canuck’s bizarre “let’s eat what we have instead of buying new stuff” mentality…weird) Am using a recipe for “Oklahoma Style Brisket,” which makes me think I should put on an apron and a Paula Deen wig, and probably get some fake pink nails.

    O please, yes, a video dance off! To “It’s raining men,” or “Turn the beat around,” and then oil wrestling…mmm.

    Ciao for now, dear. If you want to continue the twin brain experiment, check out: http://drdawgsblawg.ca/, my new fav.

  625. Charmingly written, Lindy, but you are so wrong. I would NEVER shame anyone into changing their body, nor do I think I am oppressed by the fat on the bus, on a plane, et cetera. But since you put yourself and your body out there with this vitriolic post, here you have it:

    1) Obesity is really unhealthy, is caused by poor diet and sedentary habits, and has grown rapidly in correlation with the descent of diet and exercise in this country and others. Dan’s pointing this out, and refusing to give into the delusion of Fat Acceptance, is not an attack on you.

    2) If you are happy with your body, fantastic. Live your life and don’t take shit from people who would try to make you feel bad. All Dan has done is state basic facts about a health epidemic, and share his personal tastes (he doesn’t like what he calls “unsightly roles”- many don’t, but like me are too PC to address it). Your anger is misplaced. Reserve it for those who may really oppress you.

  626. to your first point when you brought up anti-gay feelings, that is utter bullshit. being gay is not a choice and any gay person would tell you that. the only thing a person needs to do to lose weight is eat less and have some discipline. that’s like comparing apples to a lazy orange.

  628. Has Dan responded somewhere in this mess? Can someone point out the #?

    Thanks.

    – Posting in epic Slog thread. wwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

  630. Medeii@ 592,

    Thank you for your final thoughts. It is my opinion that you indeed came down to heavily on one interpretation. I’ll admit that I have not read every comment, but others (@359; @398; @440; and @486) did not regard my comment as hurtful or as defending anything. And, I believe I told you twice (@394 and @487) that I was not defending or justifying anything. From my perspective, your interpretation seems to based on your readiness to find fault. Apology accepted.

    I’m glad you appreciate my ability to accept your criticism. I’m sure it is kindly intended, and based in your profession. I’ve never thought that I was perfect in my interactions and I consider myself to always be in the process of improvement. I don’t know what you base your opinion of me on, but that you feel strongly enough to give one. I do not believe we know each other, nor do I believe that we have worked together, nor do I believe that you have sought me for counseling (which is what I do with domestic violence victims). But, maybe it will put your mind at rest to know that my superiors, and my feedback from those who have sought my counsel, indicate that my ability to both unconditionally accept a person with love while at the same time not tolerate their harmful behaviors is appreciated and is a successful one. Therefore, I’m disinclined to agree with your conclusion that I hurt more than I help and that I am neutral about hurtful issues. I will agree that my humanity means I have a capacity to be hurtful, but also that my capacity to be hurtful is likely no greater than yours.

    I’ll add that I’m sorry for your hurt. It is my impression that you feel hurt by Dan. And, if I am wrong than please forgive my mistaken impression.

    That said, I’m done with this thread and with Slog for a bit as I have responsibilities that require me to not be wedded to the internet.

    Best wishes and my honest and heartfelt apology to anyone, you included Medeii, who felt that my statement @348 was defensive and hurtful. ‘tWas not my intent, and never was.

    Take care.

  631. I find it fantastically ironic that you keep claiming that your body is beautiful, implying that it is important to be beautiful when you keep bashing people for disliking fat people due to their appearance.

    “You have no idea what I eat, how much I exercise, what my blood pressure is, or whether or not I’m going to get diabetes.”
    I do know that as a fat person you have a very elevated risk of having high blood pressure and getting diabetes. I also know a decent amount about what kinds of foods you are eating. It would be hard, if not impossible to get as heavy as you are eating a healthy mix of food. In order to gain a pound of fat you must consume about 4000kcal above your daily expenditure. Given that you are about 140 pounds overweight you must have consumed 560 000 kcal more than you needed over a given period of time. That’s 5727lbs worth of carrots. If you ate a pound of carrots every day about your maintenance it would take you 15 and a half year to be able to gain this much weight.

    On the other hand, you would only need to consume one twelth as much weight in bigmacs in order to gain that kind of weight. So eating one bigmac a day over your maintenance as well as eating some candy every once in a while will easily gain you that weight in three years.

  632. While I admire the endeavor to feel good about yourself, the message you are spreading with this article is full of FAIL. Think about all of the other fat-asses who you are basically encouraging to continue to be unhealthy, lazy and avoid confronting the root of why they are fat, because they can’t do anything about it and other people should just accept it. UNETHICAL.

  633. Agreed, shame is not an effective motivator in most situations, and shouldn’t be used to help.
    But lambasting someone for hate speech when they find “rolls of exposed flesh” to be “unsightly”? There is no insult there, and the meaning is important. There are ugly people. We are allowed to find people unattractive, and we should.
    What happens when there are no unattractive people? Beauty is a comparative term, and has no meaning without comparison.
    And what happens when are standards for beauty cannot have anything to do with health?

    Don’t be ashamed of yourself. Shame is a hard weight to carry, and is not useful. But neither will I be ashamed if I find you physically unattractive because you are fat. I won’t try to shame anyone, but I won’t hide my opinion when it is merited either. Some people are fat. Whether it is impossible for them to stop eating as much or expend more energy or whatever doesn’t matter. Some people are fat, and I do not find them as beautiful in general, and if you don’t like my opinion then keep your own, and I won’t try to force my view down your throat.

  634. Agreed, shame is not an effective motivator in most situations, and shouldn’t be used to help.
    But lambasting someone for hate speech when they find “rolls of exposed flesh” to be “unsightly”? There is no insult there, and the meaning is important. There are ugly people. We are allowed to find people unattractive, and we should.
    What happens when there are no unattractive people? Beauty is a comparative term, and has no meaning without comparison.
    And what happens when are standards for beauty cannot have anything to do with health?

    Don’t be ashamed of yourself. Shame is a hard weight to carry, and is not useful. But neither will I be ashamed if I find you physically unattractive because you are fat. I won’t try to shame anyone, but I won’t hide my opinion when it is merited either. Some people are fat. Whether it is impossible for them to stop eating as much or expend more energy or whatever doesn’t matter. Some people are fat, and I do not find them as beautiful in general, and if you don’t like my opinion then keep your own, and I won’t try to force my view down your throat.

  635. This post struck me as being about self-esteem, not fat. Good for you Lindy. It’s great to see you pushing back against the appalling cruelty.

    As for the secondary issue of weight that everyone else is so hung up on I’ll just say that I am 6′ tall and if I had ingested my wife at lunch today, I would still weigh less than Lindy. Now all of you arrogant folks throwing words like “metabolism” around please provide me with links to research showing that my body temperature is 300 degrees or that the food I eat passes through me undigested. I know I’ve never seen a cheeseburger in the toilet.

    You don’t have the answers about weight. The obvious facts are that there is something profoundly different between various people’s bodies and that hate isn’t helping anyone. How did you fail to understand that?

  636. WAY TO GO, LINDY!

    As someone who’s always been fat, I’ve learned to tiptoe around this topic because I knew everyone thought I was a total loser because of my shape. I’ve routinely gone out of my way to ensure my fatness isn’t intruding on anyone else’s life or liberty, but unfortunately everyone else hasn’t granted me the same respect, and have constantly forced their negative shameful opinions onto me without any solicitation. It hurts and is unnecessary.

    People think they have a right to badmouth fatties, or at least shame them because society says it’s OK to do so. And I guess they do have a right to say anything they want, but do they really *need* to say those things? No they don’t, but the bullying is condoned by the culture.

    I don’t think Dan is a willful hater of the fats, but I do think he is thoughtlessly cruel to the obese and then defensive when called on it, which only amplifies the original impression of cruelty.

    In the end, I’m fat and I know it. I’ll do what I can to manage my health and even ask for help if I need it. But don’t assume you can coach me or critique me without my asking first, because otherwise you’re just a jerk imposing your opinion where it isn’t wanted.

  637. Great rant against the loud mouth hater, D.S.. You’re right, we need to quit belittling people in general, and I don’t think Dan’s fame hungry self understands that to well. Weight is a hard battle, or a passive existance, but it is your choice, and the bottom line is love of self. So, keep up the love!!!

  638. I didn’t bother to read any of the comments, since I’m assuming that it’ll all just be more of the same. I just wanted to say…

    Wow. You’re really pretty, Lindy.

  639. @139

    You clearly haven’t met anyone with health problems. Kudos to you on that accomplishment but the simple “math” of burning more than you take in won’t alone cause you to loose weight for some. My mother – for example – is about 20 pounds overweight. Didn’t do anything to gain it – just had to start taking insulin for lifelong diabetes. Most days, she’s lucky to intake 1,200 calories but she still spends an hour in the gym 7 days a week. By your calculations, she should be a literal rail – and a good year ago at that.

    People need to stop pretending that what works for one person works for another. Much in the same way one person likes a dress or a game or type of food, different things work for different folks. I know people who have lost weight on Atkins, others who have gained on the same diet. I know some people who gained weight when they went vegan, others who lost a 1/3 of their body frame. I know people who have smoked, drank and ate shit their live and died at 90-something and I know people who have always eaten a picture perfect diet and died at 20 something.

    You might think @635 that you know what someone eats based on math. Hrm, interesting as doctor’s haven’t even gotten that far along. That’s why they try to get patients to keep food journals. I’m glad that – as a doctor, right – that you also have personally examined other factors in weight mass like actual body mass, frame, activity level, and the like – to determine her perfect weight. Since you’re a doctor with life-altering Internet medical math skills, I’m sure that gives you the ability to know someone over the Internet.

    I always find it humorous that the same people who go “Oh, you must be eating McDonald’s” are always the people who either eat there or eat crap themselves. If a person ate at McD;’s everyday, they wouldn’t be healthy but that factor alone wouldn’t cause weight gain. This is are you Kcal math, people.

    The larger issue isn’t the success @2 had when he stopped eating like an idiot or the success/failure of others here. The point is that no one should feel like shit because of someone else’s success. You lost weight – that is GREAT for you. No, really – GREAT. But why should someone else feel like shit because you did it and it was “easy?”

  642. I think the Fat Acceptance movement is another symptom of Americans not wanting to hear the truth. It is built into our culture to hear that we are the best, we are flawless, no you don’t have to try hard, you are entitled to the American dream. Well, everyone, how’s that working out for you?

    I lost 40lbs several years ago, and it turned my life around.

    I lost this weight by becoming way more active (biking everywhere), putting the pursuit back into happiness. It also helped to get more than 4 hours of sleep a night (and to skip the extra meal I had after midnight).

    You’re not stuck with obesity. It is not someone else’s fault. It is your body, you can change it radically if you really want to.

    I encourage you to take responsibility for yourself, and to make giant fucking changes, not small ones. You won’t regret it.

    Because life sucks when you’re waiting for other people to handle your flaws with kid gloves.

  643. OK, I looked at your photo. I see an attractive woman in black who happens to be wearing glasses. If I didn’t think you were attractive, I wouldn’t say anything, because that would be downright rude.

  646. I not only love you Lindy, but I love every inch of your body, and I’m gonna get tattoos on mine of the things you said. 🙂 Maybe not the last one right away, but definitely the others.

  647. Well this thread helps explain why there are so many fat women in Seattle. Man, I miss NYC. All that walking helps ladies.

  648. @611 Don’t worry! We’ve already DONE Nazis! Someone above pointed out (with DEFT SENSITIVITY) that there were no fat inmates at the liberation of the concentration camps, so ANYONE can get thin.

    Jesus.

    Lindy, you are my favorite.

  651. I don’t know what’s lamer:

    1) people concern-trolling over someone’s obesity on the internet
    2) the fact that I’m in Seattle where “Zaftig” is somehow a compliment
    3) the fact that Dan Savage is such an abusive, judgmental jerk all the time on this topic
    4) that people somehow believe that within the borders of certain countries, suddenly 40% of people have “naturally bad metabolisms” or “glandular issues”, that seem to vanish as soon as one leaves US airspace.

    Well, at least I’ve fixed #2 and recently moved away. It’s so nice to live somewhere that men and women take better care of themselves instead of making excuses and having pity-fests when someone states the obvious. However, hurling judgment & insults at others is so, so cruel and ultimately counterproductive. If you don’t find someone attractive, keep it to yourself you jerks.

    Anyway, enjoy those cupcakes and lattes, Seattlites! Eat up!

  652. The dykes seem to love you Linda, maybe you’re playing for the wrong team.

    Which reminds me, why do you never meet a lesbian and think ‘well, that’s a shame’ yet ladies can see gay guys you wish were straight all the time.

    Can anyone explain that?

  653. Wonderful. Thank you, Ms West. This made my day.

    I think Dan Savage is a brilliant writer, a funny guy and usually spot on, but his comments about fat folks have always seemed no different than the bullying he has become the spokesperson against. Gay kids aren’t the only ones that get bullied. So do fat kids. So do fat adults. For every story of someone who drops 40 pounds in six months, there are 20 stories of folks who have done that and gained 80 back. It is much more complex than stopping some mythical chips and beer diet.

    I don’t always get Ms West’s movie and social commentary writings, but this was just perfect. I’m now a fan. A BIG fan.

  655. Love that this is first and foremost an article about loving your body and ignoring what people tell you to think about your body. A lot of people who have been heavy and “got it together” to lose weight will rag on others unable to do the same, but they don’t seem to get the fundamental difference between them. The people who can change just like that (besides having probably a host of genes and personality traits to their advantage) probably were not that restricted by their body image. People who have a hard time changing often don’t find themselves attractive in the first place so, despite trying repeatedly to change, secretly don’t believe that they’ll ever be attractive and thus restrict any progress they try to make. Anyone that thinks their size is the one thing that determines their beauty is doomed. Because your face, your skin, your general shape, it all remains the same no matter what you weigh. My skinniness has made me feel unattractive and unwomanly for years. Once I started loving my body, I’ve felt more that I can change and whether I do or not it will not determine how beautiful I am.

  656. The BMI chart was not created by medical doctors or medical information. It was created by THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY and well all know how much they care about people’s health and well being. According to the BMI chart in order to be a healthy BMI I need to weight 125 pounds. I am 39 years old and I am disabled (which makes physical activity extremely difficult not just doing it but recovering from it and not overdoing it to further hurt myself because i have a neuromuscular disease). i am on medications that make losing weight difficult. i am on medications that make me gain weight. i just had to do a round of steroids and gained 10 pounds in a 10 days. the last time i weighed 125 pounds i was 14 years old. for most of my adult life i weighed 180 (still considered obese according to BMI). i walked everywhere, had low blood sugar, low cholesterol, and no physical health problems. i could ride my bike 20 miles and love every minute of it. now i have to walk with a walker in order to be able to walk around without falling down – including inside my own home. outside of my home people feel they have some sort of right to make comments about my weight and they make assumptions that i need to use a walker because i am obese.

    i don’t care how you feel about fat people – you have NO IDEA what anyone’s personal situation is and YOU ARE NOT IN CHARGE OF THEM NO MATTER HOW FAT THEY ARE OR HOW MUCH YOU HATE FAT PEOPLE OR HOW MUCH YOU PERSONALLY BELIEVE FAT PEOPLE NEED TO LOSE WEIGHT AND YOU BELIEVE IT’S YOUR JOB TO GO AROUND MAKING SURE THEY KNOW HOW DISGUSTING THEY ARE TO YOU. WHO FUCKING MADE YOU GOD?

    People seriously need to mind their own fucking business and manage their own lives. Leave other people alone. Live and let live. I don’t care how much you hate yourself or hate fat people or how self-righteous you feel about your right to police all the fat people in the world because you think they are fat lazy stupid fucks. It’s not your job. It’s none of your business. If you actually had a life of your own and happiness and peace in your own life you wouldn’t feel the need to be nasty and smug and go around shaming people who don’t live their lives exactly like you do.

    I may be fat, but I am not an asshole. There’s no cure for being an asshole. I’d rather weigh a ton than be some smug fuck who thinks he’s better than everyone else because he’s not fat and walks around telling fatties how fucking gross they are and how they need to lose weight because hey he did it and it’s not hard.

  660. We can all agree that everyone has different metabolism rates, and we can also agree that some people have medical conditions (thyroid disorders, for example) that can make weight loss virtually impossible. For those using anecdotal stories about themselves/loved ones/roommates who weigh 300 lbs and work out every day but still don’t lose weight, I’m inclined to believe that, if your story is not embellished, the person in your story likely has a thyroid disorder. This person is the exception, not the rule.

    Fully 1/3rd of Americans are obese. This is twice what it was 30 years ago. Another 1/3rd are considered over-weight, but not yet obese. I don’t know what the percentage of Americans with a thyroid disorder is, but I strongly doubt that it is a material number. To point out that 2/3rds of the country has an unhealthy weight (as defined by doctors and scientists…you know, the people that we liberals are supposed to believe) is not to attack anyone individually, nor is it a judgment about your looks. Some people are fat and healthy, some are skinny and unhealthy. But generally speaking, excess weight is considered unhealthy.

    It doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to notice the correlation between the explosion in obesity and the rapid change in food products, sedentary lifestyles, and our ability to live beyond our means via credit (but I digress, and will stay out of that). Simply put, most people who are obese are that way because of their lifestyles.

    You or your friends may be fat at no fault of your own, but you simply can’t tell me that 66% of the country has “bad genes” or thyroid disorders. The vast majority of that 66% actually could do what @2 and others have done–make lifestyle changes to improve their health.

  661. What’s up w/ the extension cord in the frame? Let’s make the effort, people.

    Lindy socked the “Most commented…” thing out of the park here. Lotta fatties like to chime in about fattie!

    And Lindy, you are a pretty girl. Funny to boot. I’m not gay for you, tho. I guess there’s a pun there somewhere.

    All you booze hounds out there (EVERYONE) has fucked a fat chick, so stop lying to yourselves.

  662. FUCK YEAH LINDY. This post is brave and necessary as shit. You amazing, eloquent, intelligent woman. Thank you, thank you, you are beautiful inside and out.

  663. @balki: Not everyone has a thyroid disorder, but because our bodies are adapted to survival, we are inclined to store energy. When you’re skinny your body wants more fat and once you have it, your body has a death grip on it. This was great for the early man who didn’t always know when he’d eat again, bad for modern man who always has food available. So now we have millions of people that gain weight and can’t lose it because their body doesn’t want them to starve in some hypothetical future famine.

  664. Go, Lindy! I don’t know how you can stand to work with Dan, who is so obviously a self-involved, self-satisfied child who thinks only his problems are real. I know it’s not rational or mature, but every time I read one of his posts whose only purpose seems to be to gloat about how much better he is than various inferior types of people, it makes me want to secretly oppose gay marriage just to spite him. I mean, how completely nauseating would it be to read about his wedding, which he would of course post endlessly about in order to point out how everyone else in the history of time did their weddings “wrong” compared to him. Insufferable.

  665. There’s a lot of ‘I spend an hour in the gym every day and I’m still fat, so explain that!’ smarmyness in this thread, as if shuffling along on the treadmill at 3mph for an hour didn’t burn less calories than a single Starbucks latte.

    If you don’t like being fat, you need to commit to breaking a genuine sweat, and you need to eat less. It’s not wizardry. And if you like being fat, rock right on: but stop deploying science-skepticism in your defense.

  666. Here is what people are missing who think that loosing (AND GAINING!!) weight is a personal choice or somehow a matter of will: THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED GENETICS. AND METABOLIC RATE.

    Take me, for example.

    I am a 23-year-old female. I am 5’4″, weigh 115lbs, have a six-pack for abs, and have been complimented on my figure more than once.

    Anyone that knows me will tell you that I have a jaw-dropping ability to consume foods. All of them. I drink plenty, and smoke lots of pot, which is probably correlated with me eating cheeseburgers at least 3 times a week, pints upon pints of ice cream, etc. Oh, and I smoke, and rarely exercise. I have weighed the same amount since I was a freshmen in high school.

    Why am I not obese? It certainly has NOTHING to do with will power, or “healthy choices.” I didn’t “earn” shit! No, my thinness has everything to do with a little thing called genetics, or by society’s dumb standards, luck. The point is – people have different body types. The idea that trying really really hard will change your body type is bullshit, regardless of your particular physique.

  667. Thank you for sharing this. And yet half the comments are about how you could lose weight if you really wanted to, or how you are unacceptable. The whole point isn’t whether or not Lindy can lose weight, the point is that she wants to be accepted without losing weight.

  670. @LaCatarina – I agree that there’s been a fundamental shift between early man and whatever we are now–especially with regard to the food supply. But the obesity rates have doubled in just 30 years. If your argument truly held water, we would have seen the obesity explosion much earlier–like maybe with the invention of agriculture or animal husbandry. There was no food shortage in the US in the 1960’s, was there?

  671. So Balki,
    Since some of the horrible fatties are obviously being fat on purpose, since the numbers “prove it” that means it’s a good thing to treat them like crap? Interesting.

  672. Here’s the thing that a lot of people miss when it comes to food: for a lot of people, food is a hell of a lot more than nourishment. From the time of childhood, food is often used to show love, withheld as a means of punishment, used to comfort when sad, and made to be the center of celebration. If food were just about nourishment, then the obesity epidemic would easily be cured by restricting calories, upping exercise, and the entire diet industry would collapse. But the diet industry knows, perhaps better than anyone, that lots of people develop a really unhealthy relationship to food, oftentimes from a very young age, and that for most people who battle their weight, it really has nothing to do with knowing how to lose weight. Like how to prevent pregnancy, most people out there know how to lose weight. How could you not? It’s everywhere. And that is where the shame comes into play. You know how to do it, but for some reason, or reasons, you can’t do it, and this makes you feel weak and stupid and broken, which is a terrible way to feel. So to say, “all you have to do is eat less and exercise more” really doesn’t address the problem at all, and the diet industry knows this and is making billions of dollars every year. And when you fail at accomplishing this goal over and over because the world is telling you this is “all you need to do,” it leads to shame. You go from “I feel like a failure” to “I am a failure,” and you just don’t understand why you have to be the one who, since you were 5, headed to the fridge when you felt scared and lonely. What’s worse, is addressing these issues in therapy is oftentimes complex, deep, time consuming and, therefore, very expensive. This is why I could never understand Dan’s perspective on fat people, and I agree with Lindy in terms of his writing and the eeewww factor. So many people have shame connected with being gay, so they hide and bully and make terrible decisions in terms of their love relationships and health. Can he really not see that for most people out there, losing weight is not a simple matter of intake versus output? I get that lots of people don’t understand this, but lots of people aren’t as well read and educated. It’s as if he stopped at the 6th grade explanation of things and failed to explore any further.

  673. Big girl, you are beautiful!

    I’ve been kind of overweight almost my whole life (I’m 18), but I’m also six feet tall, so it doesn’t look like much. Still, I’ve been insecure for years about my weight and my appearance, until this last summer, when I started taking pilates and resolving to stand up straight and love myself. I have received more compliments this year from friends (straight girls will say to me “You are amazingly hot”) than I have I think in my whole life. And I’m still a big girl.

  674. @Mugwumpt – Give me a fucking break. At no point did I say anything about horrible fatties or treating anyone like crap, nor did I say anything that could be considered judgmental. I actually fail to see how you could have taken offense to what I wrote. I don’t think I said anything particularly disagreeable. Tell me where I’m wrong; otherwise, don’t accuse me of bigotry.

  676. OK folks time for some basic common sense.
    1) If you look at history obesity was a sign of wealth.
    2) Until recently food was too expensive to gorge on.
    3) Processed foods are not necessarily more fattening but they are cheaper and more plentiful.
    4) The guidelines they use for determining obese and morbidly obese are too heavily weighted toward the thin side (Pun intended)
    5) Fat haters can bite my BIG FAT ASS!!

    I am 6′ 290lbs and i used to play football. I am considered fat.

  677. @274 “You want to tell somebody they need to be on the Buchenwald diet in order to satisfy your sense of aesthetics?”

    Avast, I usually love what you have to say, but no one “has to” do anything. On the other hand, no one else “has to” do anything, either. I think that Dan’s made that point time and time again.

    Stay at your present weight or not, lose/gain weight or not – my call. That it’s a difficult choice and an even more difficult course of action doesn’t make it any less of a choice. Plenty of people would consider me unattractive or unappealing based on my height/weight/body composition – but it is my decision.

    Whether someone else wants to jump my bones, though – that’s their choice. I know what the modern “ideal male body” looks like. I may not like the verdict. I don’t particularly like the verdict. But it’s not like I don’t know the basis for comparison. It’s not fair, but fair has nothing to do with it.

    Dan hits a few points hard, and time and time again. First, you have a responsibility to maintain your health and level of fitness for your partner. This isn’t aesthetics so much as moral hazard. Second, you can’t expect to happen onto a partner who’s significantly more attractive than you are (and you can’t expect your current partner to change to fit your ideal). That’s aesthetics, and also a matter of natural justice. Third, “fat acceptance”, or the “I can’t get laid because I’m overweight”. There’s no moral argument here, but that’s because there’s no argument here at all, since the question presumes the answer. Just a practical problem.

  678. @balki: Pardon me, I did not explain myself well enough, I was not trying to address how the obesity rates shot up, just your very specific point regarding all the people who exercise and barely lose any weight. There is a whole host of reasons why suddenly so much of the population gained weight, I just wanted to point out a reason why many that are trying to lose that weight, are unable to for reasons that aren’t “the exception”.

  679. I don’t agree that “diets don’t work”, since a healthy diet does make you a healthier person. I agree that crazy crash dieting doesn’t work and is bad for you — the same can be said for just about *anything* taken to an extreme.

    Lindy’s main point, however, is that bullying fat people is mean and unhelpful. I love Dan, but she’s pretty much got him by the balls by pointing out that his attitude toward fat people — “fat is gross” is just a factual statement — is clearly that of a bully.

    I can’t wait to see Dan’s response to this.

  680. I think some of you may be missing the point. I don’t think what Lindy is saying here is that being fat doesn’t have any negative health consequences or that everyone should just eat chocolate cake all day long to their heart’s content, what she’s talking about is that being fat seems to make complete strangers feel that they have the right to walk up to you and start telling you that you’re a lazy, stupid, unattractive loser. Weight in america has become this locus of shame and guilt; this over-arching defining aspect of who people think you are. I don’t know a single woman who doesn’t have some sort of bizarro body image problems and I myself have never once looked in the mirror and not thought “I’d be so much cuter if I just lost 10pds.” And since I look in the mirror every damn day, that is just profoundly sad. There is something deeply wrong with a culture where one women’s declaration that she is ok with her body provokes a bunch of strangers to tell her how lazy, selfish, and stupid she is and THAT is what I think Lindy is talking about.

    Anyway, I found this interesting link about media coverage and obesity that I thought I’d share (It’s about France, but mentions a bunch of US studies). Money quotes: “American children impute fatness with negative social traits as early as pre-school wishing to interact with fat children less,” “studies document clear and consistent stigmatization and discrimination against fat Americans, in employment, education, and health care,” “the American press was significantly more likely to blame obesity on moral laxity when reporting on ethnic minorities or the poor.” These attitudes are there, they are real, and they CANNOT be answered simply by saying that if fat people went on a diet, everything would be fine.

    http://www.moreofmetolove.com/resources/&hellip;

  681. @547: Your comment (unregistered, unfortunately, so I’m pointing it out here) had a lot of very smart things to say, like this:

    “News flash: Every single person’s body is going to break down and decay. Putting all the time and effort into avoiding that seems to mean that you are missing out on lots of other things you could be doing, that it seems like Lindy is doing with relish…”

    I think you’re very right that many people’s obsession with OTHER people’s weight has to do with our trouble with death and dying. And you know what? To paraphrase Hank Williams, none of us gets out of this world alive. It’s a great idea to work on eating healthy and exercising. If it prolongs your potential lifespan, all the better. But if you have a metabolism that very efficiently processes the calories from your food and holds on to them, no one has the right to tell you you should live a miserable existence severely limiting your food intake and exercising multiple hours a day. We only live once, and everyone should have the right to try and enjoy it.

    I wonder if we could have avoided a lot of this self-righteous bullshit if only Lindy hadn’t said “diets don’t work” and that she started losing weight when she stopped trying? Because a full quarter of this thread is tiresome as shit.

  684. @balki, Sorry, I often forget the arch tone in my head doesn’t translate to what I’ve written. You do seem to be suggesting that the majority of people who struggle with their weight are simply choosing not to do anything about it. I think Lindy’s point that it isn’t anyone’s business is valid. This thread doesn’t seem like the place to go into the socio-economic/cultural/sociological implications of obesity. For me the conversation is about the reasons many people think that being unpleasant to heavy people is acceptable. I didn’t mean to imply you’d suggested that, just that the reasons for a person being heavy don’t apply when choosing how to treat them.

  687. I’ve been waiting for someone to say it and Soo@676 finally did. Go back and read it again, folks. Food is so much more than nutrients for the majority of Americans, and it’s this emotional relationship to food that makes it so difficult for some people to maintain a healthy weight. Am I sad? I’ll have a cookie. I’m bored! Pass that cake. Etc, etc, etc. It’s not a lack of willpower so much as a screw-up between the body’s need for food (indicated by hunger) and the body’s desire for food (indicated by emotional attachment). AND IT’

    This has been my personal bugaboo. Working with a therapist and a dietician has helped (much more than any “diet” I’ve ever been on). The problem with diets, with “eating less and exercising, duh”, is that if your problem hinges on an overall unhealthy attitude towards / relationship with food, dieting or eating less and exercising might treat the symptom of the disease (that is, the overweight), but you’re still left with the unhealthy relationship with food. You really need to tackle that piece, to treat the disease. Therapy can really help.

    (Yes, this is not for 100% of people. Not everyone with unhealthy relationships with food or eating disorders are fat, and not all fat people have unhealthy relationships with food. But if you see yourself in this description, truly do yourself a favor and seek out a therapist who specializes in eating disorders.)

  688. Lindy, this was very passionately and eloquently written.and I adore you for saying it. I’m going to read this post every day, I swear it! Thank you for being so very real!

  689. I am glad that people can accept themselves as they are fat, thin and in between. If you are fat just turn off the noisome voices that want to shame you. They are motivated by intolerance and I don’t buy their “concern for your health.” Just blow them off. Yes it is my intent to enable fatness. So sue me.

  692. Hey sexy lady (and I DO mean that) – thanks so much for writing this, it says a lot of what I think but cannot say. And BTW, I wish women’s bodies, ANY type or size or shape or whatever, would STOP being an issue or topic. Everyone has preferences for physical types but people should keep their nasty comments about what they DON’T prefer, whatever that may be, to themselves. But in my experience as both a skinny woman and an overweight woman, I find that men find me more attractive with my extra weight, and I like myself more this way too. I don’t really understand where this fixation on skinny comes from because I find in the “real world” REAL men prefer bigger women. Just sayin’.

  695. Hey dumbos! Lindy may have written this post, but it’s still ALL ABOUT DAN! Including a majority of these comments.

    So Dan still wins the internets FOREVAH! (as some fatty commenter said earlier)

    Jokes on you bitches!

    Hahahahaha.

  696. 1. Please define fat and/or obese. No one can agree and the only ‘standard’ is BMI which literally has nothing to do with reality, was created in the 19th century, NOT by doctors, and is basically a simplified way of getting mass of a complex object. SO simplified in fact that the number itself barely has meaning within a context. To pick a random number from a scale that doesn’t even differentiate between weight from fat and weight from muscle and call it the obese line is absurd.

    2. Fat = Unhealthy/Bad for you, is actually an unproven THEORY. It’s an ‘everybody knows’ myth. At most, actual studies have proven that fat MIGHT be a risk factor in a few things, it does not definitely mean you will have a heart attack, heart disease, diabetes, bad joints, bad back, bad everything. If a person is considered healthy by all measurable standards and test but doesn’t fit into YOUR context of UnFat then is there really a medical reason to try and lose weight? Scientists so far have come up empty.

    3. Wow, are you psychic? Calories in/Calories out is not how it works. Weight loss is never simple, the body is much more than the sum of its parts and FAT is often mistaken for the cause of a problem instead of a symptom of the problem. The point is, you don’t know me, you don’t know my life, my choices, my meals, my routines my quirks or foibles, so I find it very vexing that somehow you still think you know exactly why my body looks the way it does.

    4. I did it and so can you! Bullshit. You did it, great. Did you miss the part about how we’re all different?

    5. Did you know that the US arbitrarily lowered the BMI (which as I pointed out means crap) fat lines and overnight, millions of people became obese?

    6. Summation: Fat is not immoral, fat is not hating your body, fat is often not a choice, fat is none of your damn business.

  697. I can’t not be a part of this historic puppy pile, even if it’s only to poop out some Saturday-afternoon drunky ramblings.

    Lindy, you’ve got spunk. And like Lou Grant (despite his protestations to the contrary), I love spunk.

    I feel sort of weirdly disconnected from this debate in that none of my close friends and very few of my co-workers over the years has been noticeably overweight, nor have I ever lived under the same roof with an overweight person, in spite of the large percentages I see every day out in the world.

    My own experience with weight fluctuation has been pretty limited. I’m 6′ and my high school graduation weight was 172 pounds. Many years later, a demanding work environment led me to go out to lunch with co-workers every day as a work break, even though it meant I usually needed to stay later to get the requisite things done. I’d get home at 9 or 10 and have just enough energy to nuke and eat a 300-cal frozen dinner before hitting the hay an hour or two later. No physical exercise to speak of. After three years of noontime pasta, ridiculously overstuffed sandwiches, deep-fried this-and-that, and bottomless sodas, I hit my highest-ever weight of 195 and was buying new pants as well as getting suits let out. The subsequent three years of providing daily care to my mom at the end of her life brought me down to 175, which felt bony. In the four years since, I haven’t been above 185.

    I admire fat people who live with zest and no apologies, and I sympathize with people who struggle to control their weight because I believe they do, in fact, struggle. It’s the nature of the struggle that I find mysterious because I haven’t witnessed it on a first-hand, daily basis, and my years in science (though not in nutrition or metabolic studies) have left me with the unassailable facts that fat is not created out of thin air, that it always takes the same amount of energy to lift a given weight a set distance, and that everyone, whatever the small differences in their basal metabolic rates, maintains a body temperature of 98.6°F ±2°. It is not the case that super-skinny people maintain that status by stoking their internal fires to 120°F.

    I think that society does a lot of enabling. I continue to be stunned at the ever-increasing size of motor vehicles, obviously created to cart around their ever-increasing owners without unnecessary bending, climbing, or reaching. Having grown up with spare Scandinavian-style furniture and living since then as though camping out, it’s weird for me to stumble into a typical furniture store and see all the mammoth overstuffed couches and hassocks. Two of me could easily fit in a typical armchair, and I feel like Lily Tomlin as Edith Ann in her giant rocker.

    I do have a few tricks–for example, if I’m eating alone, I dish up my evening meal on a salad plate. Corelle, which hasn’t changed much over the years. The dinner plates now sold at places like Pottery Barn look like the serving platters of childhood holiday feasts.

    I’m aware of my own capacity for self-delusion. I love ice cream but think of myself as only occasionally indulging. I made a rule a few years back for reasons of economy to only buy my favorite flavors when seriously on sale (e.g., $2.50 for a half gallon). Oddly enough the rule morphed over time to always buy ice cream when on sale (as some decent brand almost always is), with flavor being a secondary consideration. I once saved the empty cartons in the freezer for a 3-month period and was shocked at the number, when I pulled them all out of the corners and the door shelves to clean out.

    That is all. Make of it what you will. Onward to 1000 comments, Sloggers!

  699. Excellent!! Plus, I say to hell with free speech. Remove the negative comments to this article. Who needs to see more proof that assholes can write.

  700. In a nutshell, I’ve been chubby, and average. Never skinny. Even when thin, my body proportions are not balanced well, and clothes never really hang on me right. So that’s me and my shape.
    The best thing about being a thinner weight, let’s say average, is that you no longer think about food all the time. Like what you want to have but shouldn’t, or what you had and regret, etc. You just think about other things instead. It’s really a load lifted. To get an obsession off your mind is great.
    The same thing happened when I got a nose job after high school. I just no longer thought about my nose ever. When I was younger I had my ears fixed because they were real stick out crazies. I never thought about them after that either.
    Can you tell I looked a bit like a chimp, but with a large nose? You’re close. I feel average now, which suits me fine. Right now I could lose about 20+ pounds to feel better. I think about food too much. But I remember how much better it feels to not think about food all the time. I heard bulimics, and anorexics think about food all the time too. It’s sad to take up so much of your waking time, worrying about something that is (should be) a small part of your life.

  703. Look, it isn’t difficult to understand – obesity is going to bankrupt America thanks to medical costs. Obesity puts one at risk for a shortened and expensively maintained life. This isn’t a “theory”, people. This is a fact. Get over it and help the rest of us figure out how to save our country.

  704. Hey rob! Glad to see you in the dog pile…and I hear what you’re saying. I think there’s a very real denial of just how much we eat, on average. I bet most people, if they had some magic calorie fairy measuring everything they ate, would be shocked. I’m sure I would.

    (…and gus, the brisket was delicious! Cut it with a fork…who knew things other than tofu and twigs could taste good??)

  705. Dan Savage’s comments on health are often un educated rubbish and vastly out dated accusations,… bordering on dangerous. It’s well known by educated Diabetes physicians and nutritionists, that for some people, being “thin” or in line with the BMI is absolutely, 100% DANGEROUS to your health and well being. How do I know this? I’m a board certified nutritionist.

    For example, last year, I had a 265 lb, 6 ft 3 male patient who had, before seeing me, gotten down to 170 lbs in a year via a low calorie diet and exercise he followed in a popular “heath” zine. He was so mal nourished due to caloric restriction, he had borderline heart failure, and a vitamin level so LOW it had started to shut down his kidney function (he had an elevated creatinine and his pancreatic amylase and lipase function was at about 60%). I’ve seen this before. I forced him to IMMEDIATELY UP his caloric intake to 4000 calories a day and back OFF excessive exercise. Within 6 months, he was 230, and as healthy as a horse. That’s 50 lbs over your precious BMI. Secondly, you don’t always get diabetes, (specifically type 1) from being a “fatty” and over eating. Diabetes is OFTEN contracted via an auto immune response, and they’re NOW finding is related to a possible rejection of the pancreatic insulin producing systems by the body, much like the appendix or in some cases, gallbladder and spleen.

    YES, obesity is a factor if the body is under STRAIN (but there are medical tests to detect this OUTSIDE just looking at someone’s “fat rolls). The increase in diabetes (particularly type 1 and 2) in healthy adolescents and teens, as well as healthy, THIN men in their 20s has shot up 600% in the last decade.

    Why?

    Well according to Dan’s out dated research…which he felt compelled to publish repeatedly as some sort of half assed attack on overweight people, diabetes is simply, 100% related to obesity. Thanks for that Oprah observation Dan. Unfortunately, it’s 1000% NOT true.

    Recent research of the last decade points to the possibility that the modern body, JUST may be evolving and rejecting the insulin producing systems, much like the tonsils, spleen, gallbladder and appendix of our ancestors. Here’s how it works: The liver releases a constant hormone known as glucagon into the body which the pancreas must counter with insulin. They’re now finding that the body needs neither of these systems to survive.

    LAST week, the Diabetes Clinical Master program published a study that showed when glucagon is suppressed in the liver by people who have an over abundant release of this chemical, NO insulin is needed in the body at ALL, AND the muscles and metabolic systems are able to process and use ALL foods ingested into the body without the use of insulin. This could be a revelation and potential CURE for diabetics and hypoglycemics (who are often overweight) the world over. It also blows the lid off conventional accusatory thinking that type 2 and the newer classified type 3 diabetes are a “fat persons” disease.

    So again, we have two bodily systems which may be on their way out, much like the dodo, and all the while, slightly overweight individuals everywhere are reading people like Dan Savage’s repeated pseudo health talks, getting ready to “diet” themselves into death. Again, this is just dangerous journalism and suggestive reasoning. It’s best left to medical professionals, NOT a “Savage Love” columnist.

    Looking at the photo of Lindsay, and her reported weight, she does not appear to be “obese”, and, as a doctorate level nutritionist, making a judgment on someone’s health based on the way they simply look is just laughable. I’ve seen people 50lbs over the BMI FAR out live healthy LOOKING people too many times to take the BMI with any seriousness.

    “Fat rolls” Mr. Savage? Really? Did it ever occur to you for one second, that a body type described as such, may be the natural result of familial origins (say cold climate, Norwegian descent, etc?) and that forcing a body, who’s natural equilibrium is comfortable at that weight, may in fact INDUCE all kinds of horrific secondary complications? The list of diseases a body is immediately susceptible to once mal nutrition sets in via forced caloric restriction is infinite and FAR more dangerous than being over the BMI.

    Hospitalizations due to “crash dieting” or slightly overweight individuals trying to get down to the “magazine” standard weight are increasing exponentially yearly.

    I’m a thin person, but I sometimes wonder if “thin” people say and post cruel things about the health and well being of seemingly overweight individuals (who, again, may simply be of a non standard body type) because they are in fact, so insecure, being thin is ALL they have left to cling to.

    Sorry Dan, but as healthy as you are now, your chances of high cholesterol, high blood pressure, prostate cancer, pancreatic cancer, liver disease, kidney failure and alzheimer’s by the last 5 year study are still 1200% higher statistically than Lindsay. Time to get off the high horse of your pseudo health conscious “imaginarium” and face the fact that we are NOT all created the same. That’s kinda where unique beauty comes from in this world, which looking at this photo, Lindsay has in spades.

  706. @#37

    I am fat. I’m am fatter than the op. I’m the same hight but I weigh in at 280lbs, I eat super health, I exercise daily and I am still fat. This is not my choice. Ive tried numerous diet plans, lifestyle changes, prescription pills, I even cut down to 1100 calories a day while exercising and still I didn’t lose anything. Trust me it sometimes is not a choice. I have hypothyroid disease which fucks with you metabolism. This is why I am fat. Despite people saying “Oh I have that too and I’m thin”, or the fact the I take a pill everyday for the rest of my life to try and balance my thyroid levels. I’m still fat. Again not my choice. But people think that just because you’re bigger your an unhealthy slob who doesn’t take care of herself and eats nothing but greasy garbage all day long and sits in front of the tv all day. I’m very active, always have been and I eat very good so MY POINT is that I do not have complete control.

  707. Get a glucose meter. Check your fasting glucose level and then check your glucose level about 45 minutes after drinking a big glass of orange juice or Coke or something similar. If fasting is over 100 or the impulse goes over 140, you are probably pre-diabetic or diabetic. That’s why you’re fat.

    The solution, for me, was to stop eating anything that made the meter go over 140. For a couple of weeks that was very hard, but then it became very easy. It basically meant no more potatoes, pasta, or bread, even in small portions. On the other hand I can eat as much meat, cheese, and oddly alcohol as I like.

    Eating to the meter is really easy. If you have any doubt about a food you eat it and test. 220 on the display is a really positive indication that you shouldn’t do that again.

  709. Get a glucose meter. Check your fasting glucose level and then check your glucose level about 45 minutes after drinking a big glass of orange juice or Coke or something similar. If fasting is over 100 or the impulse goes over 140, you are probably pre-diabetic or diabetic. That’s why you’re fat.

    The solution, for me, was to stop eating anything that made the meter go over 140. For a couple of weeks that was very hard, but then it became very easy. It basically meant no more potatoes, pasta, or bread, even in small portions. On the other hand I can eat as much meat, cheese, and oddly alcohol as I like.

    Eating to the meter is really easy. If you have any doubt about a food you eat it and test. 220 on the display is a really positive indication that you shouldn’t do that again.

  710. The most important question in the history of human thought: who is and isn’t fat.

    Before the internet people published on topics like: why is society organized the way it is?; what the basic laws governing the physical universe?; what kinds of things can we derive from a few deceptively simple axioms?; etc.

    Now, thanks to the internet, we can discuss what’s really important: what upper-middle-class white intellectuals think about fat people and who is and isn’t fat. I suspect the IAS will soon establish a school of “Who is and isn’t fat” to go along with the other recent addition of Computer Science.

  712. To the quitters who claim to not lose weight when they exercise: what’s going on is a lot like the food you’re sneaking day to day…ignorance/excusing/rationalizing.

    Studies have shown (sorry, can’t find link) that when new or temporary dieters work out, they justify eating things that they really shouldn’t while dieting. “Well, I burned so and so calories, so this piece of cake is OK!” instead of taking the calorie deficit, which is necessary to lose the weight.

    In addition, if individuals actually kept track of their calorie intake*, they would find, overwhelmingly, that they are underestimating the total caloric intake on a day to day basis. Then everyone gives up after a couple of weeks before positive reinforcement is demonstrated on the scale.

    *nobody is saying you have to count calories and ~torture~ yourself for the rest of your life! After a while of doing it, your bahavior changes, your tastes change, and you don’t have to think about as much as you did before.

  714. “I am a 23-year-old female. I am 5’4”, weigh 115lbs, have a six-pack for abs, and have been complimented on my figure more than once. “

    Call us back in 20 years after you’ve squeezed out a couple of puppies and let us know how the 3 cheese burger a week meal plan is working out for you.

  716. Here is another reason it hurts so much to be “hated” for being fat – because the haters judge SIZE above EVERYTHING ELSE that person is.

    No matter what else that person has accomplished, no matter how much they give to others, no matter how smart, caring, creative, responsible, charming, entertaining, driven, productive or talented they are – in the eyes of the judgmental, they are WORTH NOTHING because they are FAT.

    Yes, fat’s visible and it’s an easy target. But it’s not necessarily evidence of laziness nor gluttony. Overeating and/or being fat can be the lesser of many evils…self-medication/protection to go on living after abuse – affordable, available “rewards” for a single parent who has chosen to be there for her kids/aging parents/two jobs/household responsibilities, etc., etc.

    The bottom line, THERE IS MORE TO A PERSON THAN THE FAT ON HIS/HER BODY AND THE PERSON COUNTS MORE- regardless of how anyone else feels about that fatness.

    This is the realization and basic human right that Lindy is declaring.

  717. LINDY RULES!

    Just gonna add/reiterate: if all fat people needed was ridicule (or shame), I’d be skinnier than Kate Moss. Ridicule, judgment and condemnation is ALL I’ve heard my whole effing life.

    Once again: GO LINDY!

  718. I am obese. I do not have high blood pressure, diabetes or high cholersterol. The only thing I’m being treated for is DEPRESSION. I’m depressed because skinny assholes, including ones that eat nothing but crap and are somehow still beautiful, are telling me that I’m a disgusting, unlovable failure. If you want to save money on healthcare, start by minding your own business. Maybe if you people shut the fuck up I can have a healthy life.

    By the way, skinny plus orange does not equal HOT. LAY OFF THE FAKE TANS, BITCHES.

  720. The title of this should read: “Hello, I’m morbidly obse.”

    I worry about you now and encourage you to visit the Pacific Science Center when they have up their exhibit on how heart disease is the #1 killer for women. You are beautiful, you are magnificent, but it has nothin to do with you looks honey! Your poor heart cannot handle that size for very long. Please please please seek medical attention before you have heard disease, diabetes, or any number of problems associate with being obese.

    I also question why you would review food (or the stranger would let you, must be one helluva health care plan). If you are uninsured from The Stranger I would also lawyer up now for the lawsuit when you have the enivetable heart attack.

  721. Be fat. Be happy. That’s cool.

    But don’t tell me I’m part of some paternalistic conspiracy to batter, abuse, and marginalize just because I don’t find this woman, or those like her, attractive. Men find her attractive? I’m sure a very few do, but most do not. I’m one of the many who don’t.

    Also, this woman’s Sarah Palinesque victim schtick is false. She condemns those who try to shame her, but her entire piece is one long, profane and abusive shame dump against anyone who has the temerity to find her unappealing. Whatever crime Dan Savage is guilty of, this woman has topped him by a factor of twenty. She loves shame and finds it useful. But only when it suits her.

    I find fat people physically unappealing. And I feel absolutely no shame whatsoever.

  722. Just like it’s somebody’s “right” to be a fat-ass, it’s also somebody’s right to talk shit about that fat-ass. The fact is, in this society, in this world that we are living in, being fat IS gross. Maybe not for the few perverted chubby-chasers out there, but for the majority of the world’s citizens, being fat is bad. And it’s bad for many good reasons. You can snicker and whine and call people who talk shit about fat-asses assholes, but the reality is is that being fat is pure, unadulterated evidence that you are lazy and lazy is, or shouldn’t ever be, never a good thing. I know, I know. “How do you know if I’m lazy? I am very active but can’t shed the pounds.” Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. If you were stranded on an island with little food and had to work everyday building shelter and hunting, you wouldn’t be fat. It’s UNNATURAL to be fat. Some animals gain weight for very specific reasons, i.e. a bear getting ready for hibernation, but are you a bear on the cusp of hibernation? No. You’re a self-loathing, lazy, disgusting fat-ass. Shame on you for talking shit about people talking shit about you. And whether you like it or not, fat will always be viewed as bad, at least in your lifetime. So get with this program, you societal drop-out, or catch the next rocket to Mars. Adapt or die.

  723. @709, Bravo! it’s about time someone who, you know, ACTUALLY KNOWS WHAT THEY’RE TALKING ABOUT chimed in.

    As a nutritionist, any other myths you’d care to debunk in this thread?

  724. @709 Congratulations, you found a unicorn. BMI doesn’t work for outliers, but outliers aren’t common. By definition. It’s easy to say that “BMI doesn’t work for me”, but how is that different from any other self-serving claim? It’s not hard to identify people that are in sufficiently good (or bad) shape that they make BMI irrelevant.

    @720 Is there any term more vapid than “fat haters”? Nobody thinks that you’re worthless because you’re (or I’m) fat. It’s a particularly nasty social handicap, but it’s not the only social handicap out there, and like everyone else you notice people who are unattractive, short, poor, ethnic, etc, etc, etc, and apply your own nasty prejudices accordingly.

    @681, @729 Hallelujah. Bullying, ridicule, judgement, and condemnation are useless. Not to mention crass. That said, when someone writes Savage Love asking about their overweight partner whom they no longer find attractive, or are overweight themselves, or have unrealistic expectations as to whom they can or can’t date, etc etc, that’s something entirely different.

    @708 Scales are your friend. Big shock for me. Do you know how small 50g of yogurt is? Or 150g of meat? It just blew my mind.

  727. @ 725 – No, Lindy’s piece is not against people who find her unattractive. You’re allowed, of course, to find whoever the hell you want attractive. Freedom of choice! That’s not the point. *re-reads* Nope! That doesn’t sound like someone home on a Saturday night ’cause boo hoo, nobody finds her attractive (indeed, there’s some fairly lusty comments about Ms. Lindy above).

    What I got out of it is that Lindy is tired of the mean-spiritedness that folks will dole out on fat strangers, let alone people they know & care about. Dan & Lindy have a F2F relationship, & again, all the Stranger staff voices chiming in above says to me that other folks who know her & Dan IRL agree that his intentions may be good, but his disgust outweighs the good he is trying to do.

    Look at some of the hurtful shit that has been said thus far, just above. Cunt, lazy, slob, etc. Name me another group of people it’s “accepted” or “okay” to speak that way about or to – gays? Blacks? Short people? Folks with bad acne? No.

    It’s not like America doesn’t have an obesity problem – we do. Jobs used to be much more physical. Now most of us sit at desks &/or stand straight up all day. Not as much w/ the harvesting, lifting, moving, etc. Also, we also have an incredibly fucked-up & complicated relationship w/ food. And not lots of time..none of which excuses personal responsibility. I agree with the basic GIGO idea – garbage in, garbage out, & giving my body close to the right amount of fuel for its needs. But that’s my philosophy. If someone asked me for ADVICE, I’d discuss that further w/ them.

    What Lindy is saying is, her body is her issue; not yours, & she’s fucking tired of hearing everyone else’s unasked-for opinion about it, even or maybe even especially when that shit-flavored disgust comes wrapped in a coating of seeming concern.

    So amused at all the really brave swingers of keyboard balls in this message thread. There’s the “I lost all this weight! so anyone who doesn’t is a lesser being!” people. There’s folks who’ve never been fat – easy to judge the shoes you haven’t walked in. Then there’s just folks who felt like harassing someone, & fatties usually shut up & take it, right? I bet 99% of you schmucks wouldn’t dare put your legal name to most of what you’ve said here. Cowards. Keyboards balls.

    There are some here whose language isn’t belittling or bullying, though they disagree w/ Ms. West. Thank you for that.

  728. For the record, also, Dan is spot on when he says that partners have every right to expect that their mates remain roughly the same people they started out with, barring medical issues, etc. Someone shouldn’t bail at a moderate weight gain without trying to help, but once you have hooked up with someone you enjoy, you should maintain at least the personhood that attracted your partner. & Dan has shown evolving compassion for guys who like big girls & vice versa.

    Again, careful reading shows Dan isn’t mindlessly hating. Just, his choice of language does not succeed in covering up the contempt with which he holds fat people. & as Kim in Portland pointed out, his family has wrestled w/ obesity.

  729. From the meta filter comments, by a poster named Cali:

    “I think you could easily take what she’s saying and generalize it to “shaming is hurtful and ineffective.”

  731. So glad for this sockin’ it to him. For all Dan does & says that rocks, “santorum” and all, this fatphobic thing is like some huge blind spot for him. THANK you, Lindy West.

  732. I can see both sides. At 23 yrs old, I was 6’1″ and 325 pounds. I can not remember a day that would go by that I didn’t envy those around me. The guys that could walk around confidently at the beach or pool with beautiful girls, those that I would watch ride a bike in spandex nonetheless, or go for a run in shorts and no shirt. I realized that if I wanted to find a beautiful confident person for a mate, then I would have to be that person to them. Then one day, after consuming a large pizza for dinner followed by an entire carton of Ben & Jerry’s and snacked on half a package of oreo’s; I finally saw where I was going wrong. I researched everything about a healthy diet. After I got that under-control, I dedicated my time to learning exercise. I have weighed 180 for the past 12 years. No surgery or diet. Just a complete lifestyle change. I am happier and healthier than I ever have been. I am the guy who runs miles a day, rides a bike 80 miles in spandex. Only I am Irish, so my tans not so great. My only regret is I waited until I was 23. I spent my High School and college years being fat and lazy, and I only thought I was happy.

    My one impetus: I love to run and play with my kids and I want to be in their life for as long as possible, and give them the gift of a long healthy life of their own.

    I have dedicated my life to learning and teaching weight loss. I believe there are some disorders that cause weight to be an issue. Those account (by some studies) for about 2% of obesity cases. The rest is just typical Americans. Most anyone can change. They just have to want to, and want to more than anything in the world. If only for my kids.

  733. I’ve been on both sides of the tracks and let’s not forget that even if you are THIN that doesn’t mean you are healthy. Look at most of the shit that’s in food today…more of it is sprayed, chemical packed shit that shouldn’t even be called food. Those chemicals build up in a fat person or a thin person, who maybe has a faster metabolism than a fat person, and what do you know, that person has diabetes, cancer, etc, etc…when their older, or sometimes even when they’re 30! I knew 2 girls ages 35 & 37 that both died of the exact same cancer within a year of each other. And the Cancer Research centers are STILL trying to figure out how to cure cancer. Go figure. Please make your donations to them…they GREATLY appreciate it.:P

    The point is, it doesn’t matter if you are skinny or fat, I’ve been both and I was unhealthy at both weights. My diet is actually ‘healthier’ now at a heavier weight because i actually eat more veggies NOW than i did as a kid! However, I am still VERY addicted to the same sugars and garbage that I ate as a kid.

    The reason it is so difficult for people to lose weight is because most of America is lacking BIG time the nutrients and vitamins they NEED. Our immune systems are shit. If we had the nutrients and vitamins we needed we wouldn’t crave certain ‘junk’ food. Also, let’s not forget that the food companies have made SURE that Americans have become addicted to food. Look at films like ‘Supersize Me’, ‘Food, Inc’, etc, etc…

    And let’s not forget the pharmaceutical companies. They love people sick and LOTS of those chemicals they prescribe make people gain weight.

    So do i find it hard to believe that fat people have tried to lose weight and not lost a damn pound…not really.

    Between the shit in our food, the fact that it’s addictive (yes, it’s addictive), the fact that we are lacking vitamins which makes us crave that already addictive food, and the fact that these chemicals we consume and work with daily fuck up our body, and make our bodies lose weight at a slower rate and hang on to fat, do i find it hard to believe people have a difficult time losing weight…(please refer above).

  734. I’ve been on both sides of the tracks and let’s not forget that even if you are THIN that doesn’t mean you are healthy. Look at most of the shit that’s in food today…more of it is sprayed, chemical packed shit that shouldn’t even be called food. Those chemicals build up in a fat person or a thin person, who maybe has a faster metabolism than a fat person, and what do you know, that person has diabetes, cancer, etc, etc…when their older, or sometimes even when they’re 30! I knew 2 girls ages 35 & 37 that both died of the exact same cancer within a year of each other. And the Cancer Research centers are STILL trying to figure out how to cure cancer. Go figure. Please make your donations to them…they GREATLY appreciate it.:P

    The point is, it doesn’t matter if you are skinny or fat, I’ve been both and I was unhealthy at both weights. My diet is actually ‘healthier’ now at a heavier weight because i actually eat more veggies NOW than i did as a kid! However, I am still VERY addicted to the same sugars and garbage that I ate as a kid.

    The reason it is so difficult for people to lose weight is because most of America is lacking BIG time the nutrients and vitamins they NEED. Our immune systems are shit. If we had the nutrients and vitamins we needed we wouldn’t crave certain ‘junk’ food. Also, let’s not forget that the food companies have made SURE that Americans have become addicted to food. Look at films like ‘Supersize Me’, ‘Food, Inc’, etc, etc…

    And let’s not forget the pharmaceutical companies. They love people sick and LOTS of those chemicals they prescribe make people gain weight.

    So do i find it hard to believe that fat people have tried to lose weight and not lost a damn pound…not really.

    Between the shit in our food, the fact that it’s addictive (yes, it’s addictive), the fact that we are lacking vitamins which makes us crave that already addictive food, and the fact that these chemicals we consume and work with daily fuck up our body, and make our bodies lose weight at a slower rate and hang on to fat, do i find it hard to believe people have a difficult time losing weight…(please refer above).

  735. @732: If you expect your partner to stay the same, you’re either looking only for short term relationships or you’re in for a shocker. People change. Their body shape my change, they will get wrinkles, their interests may change, etc. If you expect them to stay the same over the decades, you’ll be sorely disappointed. It’s possible to retain a somewhat similar body & face with enough surgery, but to expect that seems rather ridiculous.

    The folks commenting about the “but fat is baaaad and you all don’t have willpower” clearly didn’t bother comprehending the article. I don’t care what your judgement is about fat. Keep it to yourself unless I ask you how to lose weight, or why you look every so svelte. I couldn’t care less about your weight. I expect the same courtesy from you about mine.

  736. “THERE IS MORE TO A PERSON THAN THE FAT ON HIS/HER BODY AND THE PERSON COUNTS MORE- regardless of how anyone else feels about that fatness. “

    Not when it comes to who people want to fuck and who they don’t. You’re a good liberal, don’t you believe in our evolutionary prerogative to find healthy, attractive mates to breed with?

  737. But…look at what a fantastic conversation Dan has started. This is why we need him. This is why the Stranger and Slog are one of the best things we have going. Lindy, you are awesome and beautiful and thank you.

  738. The whole “raising my premiums” bullshit is ridiculous. I am 300 pounds, 24 and 5’9. I do NOT have diabetes, hypertension, or any of the typical ailments of obese people. I pay my fuckin’ insurance premiums every month, and RARELY go to the doctor. Normal checkups, and for the occasional sinus infection. And it’s none of your fucking business anyway. You don’t see me bitchin’ about the cost of fixing your burned esophagus from all your bulimic episodes, or your hereditary heart condition. Live your life and focus on things you can change. Yourself.

  739. My fat friends eat a ton more food than I do. Twice as much.

    Cut out soda, candy, sugary breakfasts and you can trim a 1000 cals a day off of your diet.

  740. How did the entire internet come to believe someone with a BA in Theatre is qualified to give advice about sex/life/weight/etc? Dan Savage is just some guy with an anus, just like the rest of us. Pay him no heed.

  741. @739 – No no, I don’t mean people never change. Let’s not oversimplify.

    People age; people change. Metabolisms slow down, & some weight gain is inevitable (IMO) as they do. Wrinkles, etc. Dan usually gets letters from people whose partners have put on an extreme amount of weight (or in a coupel of cases, lost too much). Many of them don’t sound shallow, but distressed over how to deal w/ the health issues of their S.O. w/out hurting their feelings, & their faltering attraction to their mate.

    People sometimes get together w/ a partner, move in w/ them or marry, & then figure they’ve got someone, so they stop trying: dressing up once in awhile. Or they put on a lot of weight (or lose a lot of weight). Or they stop being as attentive. Or they expose views that the other partner didn’t know they had, that are dealbreakers. Nobody stays exactly the same, of course! To expect so would be ridiculous. If yer in it for the long haul, you accept some degree of flux.

    I do think that if you get together w/ someone, & then when the relationship becomes more stable, they essentially totally let themselves go – not a temporary slip, not depression or some other medical cause that a compassionate partner damn well better help them work through – that’s a problem for the attraction levels of the other partner. Yes, you should love someone for who they are inside. But for most of us, this earthly shell is what attracted us to begin with, right?

    But YMMV.

  742. You’re awesome Lindy! I’m glad that you called Dan out, others have tried but hopefully your words will have an impact. It’s not about whether people like fat people or not, it’s about respecting others and allowing them to live their lives in peace.

  743. I was fat once too. Then i started running three miles a day and rowing. i became thin and now I am so completely fine with my body and love it for all the things it can do, (climb mountains, cross country ski, run) dont let the fact that you are lazy dictate your body if your BMI is not healthy change your life.

  744. Lindy, I already loved you for your awesome movie reviews, but now? Well, this fatass lady, who also happens to be passionate about the FA movement, just fell head over heals in love with you. Thank you Lindy, and *high five*!

  745. So, eat less if you want to stop being fat so bad. It’s a simple math equation, calories in vs. calories out. Eat less, exercise more, simple. Change your body if you want to or at least quit complaining.

  746. Holy shit, there are SO many comments on here. I read about the first 5. Lindy, you are 100% correct. Everyone that deals with being fat doesn’t need to be shamed anymore, we do that to ourselves enough. I am still dealing with my self-hate after losing 101 lbs. I didn’t start losing weight to get skinny, I did it because I was 26 and confined to my home on many days because of my health. I’ve lost 2 jobs because of my health. None of my 6 doctors ever connected my health issues with my weight because my disease is not normally linked to being overweight.

    I don’t think there’s any excuse to treat fat people differently than everyone else, but it happens all the time. I help people to get healthy now but I never look at someone overweight and think “they need MY help!” Since I don’t know their issues, I don’t assume I can help them.

    I still have 49 lbs more to go and this is turning out to be the hardest weight I’m going to lose. Dealing with the emotional and psychological side of being heavy my ENTIRE life and finally getting to be where I may feel comfortable in my own skin is scary. People compliment me every day and it makes me uncomfortable. Isn’t that the opposite of how I should feel?

  747. As a larger lady myself, I’m not going to deny that I would love to be thin(ner), but I do believe that if I wanted it enough, I’d do more about it – I already eat quite healthy and walk lots but there’s always more you can do. The thing is, that doesn’t mean that I enjoy being the subject of ridicule. If I don’t walk down the street feeling the need to yell abuse at the bloke with a big nose and a ginger receeding hairline, why the hell do other people feel the need to talk about me? As Lindy said, covering an insulting aesthetic comment in the facade of medical concern really is irrelevant. Love the blog and the debate that has ensued! xx

  749. I’m going to take maybe a different stance on this. If you look back to the ancient greeks “overweight” people were actually revered, mostly because they were the ones that had food. Look at statues by Michaelangelo and they did not have the “perfect” body everyone sees nowadays. We are socially conditioned to believe beauty is looking a certain way. Look at the 1920’s pinup girls, they were skinny and tomboyish. Look at the current playboy models, huge breasts and definitely not tomboys. Everything we believe in is due to being socially conditioned. Boys don’t cry. Girls wear pink. On and on and on…we are brainwashed people! Open your freakin’ eyes!

    Anyway, when it does come to being overweight, if you are happy in your body, that should be fine. There are some health concerns, but it’s taking a risk just like smokers, drinkers, sky divers, shark divers, etc. I have fluctuated in weight some, but I do enjoy having a “nice” looking body and also physical strength. My current goal is to do 100 pushups in a row. If I was extremely overweight, I just could not do this feat, period. It’s all about priorities and how bad you want something. I am sure if you starved yourself you would lose weight, period. Makes me think of Dodgeball when he used shock therapy to not eat a doughnut. How bad do you want it? To live up to society’s current view of beauty that changes with each generation? These are tough choices that we need to make, but it should never be at the expense of your happiness. And people shouldn’t ridicule others due to their physical appearances, but there goes the social conditioning again as well as humans having a hard time accepting things that are perceived as different and not of the norm. Anyway, my rant has gone on long enough…good luck everyone in all your life’s endeavors and I hope each and everyone of you can find what makes you happy and not let other people or society dictate how you should live your life or make you feel.

  750. There is no chance you will read this, Lindy, but whatevs. Both you and Dan are smart people with some good points here, but let me tell you why I loved this. Dan’s putting himself out there by stoking the fires of prejudice. I’m sure he believes what he’s saying, but he sure seems enthusiastic on the shaming part. Sorry, that’s just not an aspect of humanity I’m up on tapping into. “Hitting bottom” can work but that’s because it instills urgency, not self-loathing. Dan’s shtick is more about self-loathing.

    You, on the other hand, are putting yourself out there because you give a damn. You’re not just saying how you feel, but you’re saying why how you feel matters. It’s rare someone can take such an intensely personal, emotional perspective and apply it so thoughtfully. Also, you’re hilarious. I’m a heterosexual guy who fully admits to having slimmer body type preferences. But I don’t give a damn: There is nothing in this post that is not absolutely gorgeous.

    Oh, and even if you were completely wrong, you would totally have won this argument. You’re an amazing read.

  751. Most people would describe me as fit or athletic or thin. If I dropped 10 lbs, I’d be in model or pro-athlete range. In other words, I’m what most people are aiming for. I eat as much as I want at thanksgiving, christmas, and on my birthday. Every other day, I think about my diet, and exercise restraint. That is 362 days a year of not eating what I want to eat. That is called discipline, and it is why I’m not fat.

    Lindy, et al, seem to think that what I have is trivial and effortless. The reality is that I work at it.

  752. I have heard comments that were positive and negative. It’s not the weight of a person that makes them good or bad, healthy or not healthy,but it has to do with high blood pressure, cholesterol, high blood sugars are just some. There are plenty of skinny people who have high blood pressure, cholesterol and high blood sugars. Heavy people can be healthy too, look at sumo wrestlers. They are big, fast, strong and can handle long workouts.
    Anyone who has to put down someone because of their weight, are very insecure about themselves. Being fat as some call it, isn’t a disease or you can’t catch it by contact.
    People be proud of who you are, but respect others for who they are. There will always be small people, big people, heavy people, light people, tall people, short people. People of different colors and languages, sizes and shapes, I’m just glad we are all different, because live would be boring if we all were the same.

  753. Holy shit participating in EPIC thread!

    Anyway your line about how much you’re in love with everything got me thinking. Normally people who try to project their happiness, or down play their sadness, are really the opposite. Just because a few self-centered assholes can’t keep to themselves how obsessed with everyone else they are doesn’t mean you should care. It’s beyond clear they’ll never be anything other than ignorant, and they’d prefer to stay ignorant to that as well.

    A bigger build used to be associated with wealth. You’d get to eat the best and greatest feasts with the best and greatest prostitutes and get special tubs made because the one’s in the store were too CHEAP to fit your body. The 60’s changed all that, we started trying to live better through chemistry in every area of production, we stopped caring about what goes in and out of anything and started to care more about the bottom line. Larger people are just considered larger targets by the mega-corps who use these feelings to exploit and keep large. For every person struggling with this is another struggling to struggle. Maybe if every aspect of society wasn’t shitting down your neck it’d be easier to be.

  754. @755 (geez), what you don’t seem to realize is that you may be *quite wrong* that the reason you’re within 10 pounds of model weight is your discipline – that it’s possible that if you really let yourself go, you’d just get within 20-25 pounds of model weight. You’re really assuming a lot to decide that you minus your amazing restraint equals some fat person you see out in the world. I don’t get why that kind of attitude is so widespread! So presumptuous and, really, it just sounds so smug!

  756. @758: I think the reason it’s not presumptuous to acknowledge that lack of restraint leads to obesity is because logic, history, and science are all against your supposed horrible magical new fat genes (a.k.a. EXCUSES) that appeared in the last generation.

    People throughout history were not fat due to a naturally forced restraint: lack of available resources to lose control on.

    It’s simply a flat out lie that the majority of people* become obese without overdoing it– that’s impossible! THE CALORIES CAME FROM SOMEWHERE.

    The dismissal of reality / cause and effect is really quite astonishing.

    (ok, some medications and rare disorders make your body retain calories and gain weight)

  757. u r awesum and rite, people r people and if u r a PERSON u deserved 2 b treated like evry other PERSON. and 4 the record, i m a skinny, short guy who simplee b leves in equallity among ALL people and PEACE among the earth.

  758. 760 comments in, and I have an observation: Among those on this thread in the anti-fat-person camp, many of you seem so damned angry. Some of the outrage borders on religious fervor.
    Why is that?

  759. Why don’t we also embrace the fact that some people are just born poor? There’s not a damn thing anyone can do about that either. Who are you people to tell people they have to live in a nice house or make enough money to feed themselves? As if people should have to live on YOUR standards.

    Stop trying to force your straight, healthy, (and obviously Republican) affluence on us all.

    ONE LOVE

  760. 762: personally, I’m not angry, I’m just annoyed that the fat often take this stance that they are victims of their genes, destined to be fat and fail at ever changing

    It’s kinda like when you’ve heard every excuse from an alcoholic and you’re just like, yeah right OK whatever. And other alcoholics then pat that person on the back and say, yeah, me too! So you’ve got this group of people who are no longer accepting responsibility for their own self-imposed misery, and then making an enemy out of this other group (non addicts / non fats) for disliking the alcoholics– not wanting to date them, trying to talk them out of being alcoholics, pointing out that it is extremely unhealthy, has a negative impact on society, has adverse effects on the ones who love you, etc.

    I get it, it’s mean, kids made fun of you in elementary school, and it caused you to drink even more / turn to food even more.

    Try harder to quit. Try harder to get healthy.

    If there was an intervention episode and the addict was like, “I don’t need help. I’ve ~accepted~ myself and love myself like this…” that does not mean that the consequences are not going to catch up with them. That does not mean that family and friends are suddenly like OH OKAY GREAT!!!! So happy you’ve resigned yourself to never stop drinking because it is too hard. No, that would be a total joke. Why and how is the fat acceptance movement different?

    I’m not mad, I’m annoyed. But I know where you were going with your question….the old “Wow, you’re grumpy! I bet it’s because your hungry.” backhanded insult.

  761. This column, and the overwhelmingly positive response, are proof that an (absolutely irrational) emotional argument trumps logic, science, and reason.

    How can you even hold a discussion with a person who would say something like 754, “Oh, and even if you were completely wrong, you would totally have won this argument. You’re an amazing read.” ….. Doesn’t that defy the whole premise of right and wrong? And defeat the purpose of finding out which is which in the first place? My head just exploded. I feel like I’m on another planet.

    I’m amazed that there is hundreds upon hundreds of people who would go out of their way to yell for something completely nonsensical. Politics surely makes more sense now..

  762. @ 760: 758 really didn’t say obesity is never caused by lack of restraint. The idea is that there are many people for whom lack of restraint actually doesn’t lead to obesity. I definitely don’t have more restraint food-wise than my best friend, yet she’s clinically obese and I fall within a healthy BMI. I’m perhaps a bit more active than she is, but we have another close friend who eats whatever she wants and never goes to the gym and fluctuates between being a healthy weight and being *underweight*. It’s difficult for her to keep pounds on. Her mom and sister are the same way.

  763. No one actually answered mt question, and since there seems to be an overwhelming majority of ‘fate haters’ that say fat = unhealthy, what exactly would you tell the millions of people defined as obese by BMI (which is a crock of shit) or your own professional observation if by every OTHER medical indicator they are extremely healthy? This is not a unicorn in the woods. Many ‘fat’ people have low blood pressure, good muscle mass, low cholesterol, walk plenty, don’t eat those high fat, high sugar foods and drinks by the caseload as is so often *assumed*.

    If the only indicator is weight, is the person actually unhealthy? Because unless someone shows me an actual study, not just an article with an opinion or a single doctor lecturing his fat patients about the long term health deficits weight MIGHT bring, I’m gonna go with weight alone being a shit indicator of health. And since you (the plural) are not psychic and cannot possibly know everything about a person by just looking at them, I think you can take your own hatred and phobia home and do a little introspection into why it matters so much to you.

  764. Thank you so much for this. I am shorter and heavier than you, and actually am losing weight on purpose at the moment ( I refuse to use the D word), but the hate is always what makes it harder, and even if it all goes as planned I will always be seen as fat by the ‘objective’ standards trotted out by the haters. At 18 I was gorgeous and curvy and fit into regular high street clothes, and the hate is what killed my mental health and made me comfort eat, afraid to exercise in public and got me to the weight I am today.

  765. I am a (relatively thin) lesbian who loves a fat woman. I don’t care if she ever gets thinner – I do care that she eats well, feels good about herself, exercises, and generally stays healthy so she can live a long time with me. She’s much stronger than I am, and she loves skiing, dancing about, and playing with a fitness ball.

    She has an eating disorder that she’s working to get treatment for through a psychiatrist and a dietitian (because the treatment will improve her physical and mental health, not because she needs to be skinny). I’m so proud of her for all she’s accomplished – she’s doing very well in medical school, loves working in free clinics to help the uninsured, and loves me more than life itself. Why would I care about the number on the scale?

    And FYI: I find her fat rolls incredibly sexy.

  766. I agree with you about shaming fat people to be skinny. I’ve been a big guy my whole life, and I’ve been pretty fat before. However I have to say that there is nothing healthy about being 5’9″ and 263lbs. You don’t get that heavy by eating healthy and exercising like we humans are supposed to do.

    I haven’t read all the comments considering there are a ton of them, however I did catch a guy named andrew at the top here. Men, for whatever reason, have a very easy time loosing un-needed weight as compared to women. He does make a good point on cutting out all of the ‘bad’ foods though.

    You can’t sit there and tell me that you have tried to loose weight whilst still being as heavy as you are, especially for how tall you are. In this case I feel safe saying that you have not tried nearly hard enough. You can exercise all you want, but unless you combine that with a better diet you will go nowhere.

    I personally don’t see a problem with people being relatively fat (by that I mean still fit enough to sprint to their car if they need to) but you never know when the lights are going to go out. You never know when you’re going to need to be able to run for a few miles.

    Thin isn’t necessarily better. It’s being fit that is better. Those who are fit tend to be thin. It’s in our genes, darling. As a species we ingrained with the concept of “SURVIVE!” one way to survive is to pick an ideal fit mate. The idea is ‘she is fit, beautiful and intelligent our kids will be the same. the species will last longer’

    Now you can never change the fact that people will shame you in to loosing weight. A good method of handling this would be to channel that shame in to hate and anger at your body. Use that to get your ass up in the morning and take a jog around the block at least. Or perhaps not ordering extra cheese on your pepperoni pizza.

    And also, I have to agree with the quote you posted in your blog as well. Exposed rolls of flesh are pretty gross. It’s gross to me because you shouldn’t have let it get that bad; it’s gross and pathetic.

  767. Lindy’s point number 3) really resonates. There are roads I’ll never use, government services that I’ll never use, War-on-X that wastes hundreds of billions that I have to subsidize. All this shows is that Avenue Q true-ism: Everybody’s a little bit [or more] bigoted about something. Even equality-crusaders like our beloved Dan.

  770. Dude, seriously 771 comments about a fat person pissed off by her own insecurities enough to write an article about it? (cue no body likes me/eat worms kiddie song)

    Can’t it just be cool to NOT have an opinion on the matter? Seriously everyone has 1 of about 4 different body types. Significantly deviating from that body type requires serious effort. However, it can be done. I Know an ectomorph that after 5 years can bench 270 and can run a 6 minute mile. I’m a mesomroph, I weigh the same, and accomplish the same in about 6 months….then I let it slide. The difference being is the effort applied. Effort. A key component to any endeavor.

    Now as far genetics: the basic pool of a bazillion years human DNA can’t have shifted that much since the 1970’s so as to cause the obesity rates we see today, and have genetics as the only cause. Not every fat person can use genetics as an excuse truthfully. That being said, there are legitimate medical reasons for obesity.

    For health concerns: She cites “Mental” Health? Seriously. I can only wonder what the underlying psychology is to choose to significantly deviate from the herd. Maybe she doesn’t care. Maybe she feels entitled to revel in excesses. Maybe a life of luxury/entitlement. Maybe she feels marginalized, unoriginal or unremarkable, (read: NOT SPECIAL) Maybe she was yelled at by her mommy and she formed an attitude of rebellion towards whatever authority decrees. What-ever, the reason is not important. It doesn’t matter, so theres no point in me writing this…Maybe food is her coping mechanism.

    That may be fine, and well, and good, and all that. It is for the MENTAL HEALTH reason alone a morbidly obese, person may not be viewed as a viable mate. That is after-all the central motivation for human interaction–to make more tiny baby humans (or at least practice as such)

    So there you have it. Someone that does not embody the taller/faster/smarter/more nimble/more capable qualities that define who makes a good mate is indignant that her choices not to conform to the ideals of the herd makes her less suitable.

    Do not construe anything I’ve said in this post as “care.” I do not have an opinion, I’m just throwing out a few possibilities. I simply just do not care. I used to, but then I grew up.

    A 6-5′ woman that weighs 250 lbs and is significantly active, motivated, engaging, and exciting to be around is much more attractive by almost any measure than say–Holly Madison.

  771. An excerpt from “The Simpsons” episode when Homer went from 239lbs to 300.

    Marge: Let’s quietly and calmly discuss the pros and cons of your controversial plan, shall we?

    Homer: I —

    Marge: Con! You’re endangering your health.

    Homer: Pro: I’m drought-and famine-resistant.

    Marge: Con! You’re setting a bad example for the children.

    Homer: Pro: I, er, don’t have to go to work.

    Marge: Con! You’re running the air conditioner non-stop. It’s freezing in here.

    Homer: Pro. Uh…uh.. I love you?

    Marge: Con: I’m finding myself less attracted to you physically.

    Homer: Marge, this is everything I’ve ever dreamed of right here and nobody’s gonna take it away from me. You never had faith in me before, but let me tell you, the slim lazy Homer you knew is dead. Now I’m a big fat dynamo! And where’s that cake?

    Marge: There’s no cake.

  772. I’m all for promoting healthy body image, I am. But it’s articles like these that actually make me really mad. Why? Because people shouldn’t want to be fat. And it’s not like being homophobic, so don’t think that. I’m not a bigot.

    The fact is, you’re basing this argument around an entirely cultural framework. We eat shit in western culture- we do!- our processed and packaged and msg filled garbage that the companies call “food” is not what human beings are meant to consume. We are also, biologically, hunter/gatherers which means that we are built to run around all day looking for the means to our subsistence, and it’s only very recently that we’ve stopped doing those things. Fat people have only existed in the numbers they do within in the very recent past, and it’s not something that we should be embracing at all. Our society needs to start questioning these cultural “norms” of eating and exercising and start realizing that we need to get skinnier. Period.

  773. Lindy, do you know how many calories a 28 years old female of 5’9″ should eat a day?

    Do you know on average how many calories you actually take in on any given day?

  775. “I don’t think there’s any excuse to treat fat people differently than everyone else”

    When it comes to who we want to fuck, we absolutely have te right to reject tubbies. It’s our evolutionary perogative to find fit and attractive mates, not lard asses who huff and puff up a flight of stairs.

    Nothing like fat liberals telling us to deny our Evolutionary instincts. Suddenly you all have become creationists?

  776. as the comments continue to pile it up it is amazing how many people STILL feel they have a right to admonish people and inform them how to lose weight. why are there so many hall monitors in seattle? what a bunch of meddling, self-righteous babies!

    i hope all of you insisting fat people are __________ and that they need to lose weight because you say so and they’re _______ if they don’t – i hope none of you have or have ever had or have unsafe sex, STDs, HIV/AIDS, unwanted pregnancies; i hope none of you smoke cigarettes or drink alcohol or do drugs; all of these things are extremely costly to society health and well being wise and cost to the health care costs in america. i hope all of you are living perfect, clean, healthy, green lives that don’t affect other people in any other way – because while you are the hall monitors right now – if you accept the hall monitor mentality, well guess what there are hall monitors out there perfectly willing to pick you apart for whatever behavior you are engaged in that pisses them off and makes them feel they have a right to dictate how you should be living YOUR life because it’s offensive to them.

    none of the haters on this blog are interested in fat people’s health – they just think fat people are _______________ and because they think that then they think they have some right to tell fat people who they are, how they should be, why the are offensive, why they need to lose weight, and why they are ________________ for believing they have any right to exist in the world. oh and if fat people do have the audacity to walk around in the world not hiding in their houses ashamed, well then they DESERVE all the vitriol tossed their way.

    how is this acceptable? why as a society do we allow this to happen like it’s no big deal?

    gay people in this society don’t want people homophobic people walking around saying how gross they are and how they wish they would stay in the closet or kill themselves or go through some sort of insane “restructuring” therapy to fix who they are. gay bashing, calling people FAGGOT! on the street, attacking people because they are homosexual is not acceptable and is considered a hate crime. it is also a hate crime to do the above to people who don’t have white skin. it’s not societally acceptable to call people NIGGER or KIKE or whatever other racial epithet applies. so why is it ok to call someone a FATTIE to their face or make comments about them so they can hear you (but not directly to their face), or write such hateful, nasty, horrible, wretched things on a blog post comments section because you get to hide behind your unregistered comment or made up name? why is acceptable to walk up to a woman and say you would be so pretty if you lost a ton of weight or i’d fuck you only if i were drunk out of my mind (or if none of my friends found out)? why is it acceptable for fat people to be discriminated against, ridiculed, treated like shit, ostracized, teased, bullied, hated, and hurt – but it’s NOT acceptable for any of that to happen to you because you are _____________?

    every single nasty comment in this thread is a tribute to how deeply flawed and stupid human beings are. you may not be fat and it may not be you but if you participate in behavior like this and think it’s OK well one day you’re going to be on the receiving end of the vitriol and then are you going to expect some sort of protection or outrage on your behalf that you refused to show? if so, when that happens, why should all the fatties of the world (or anyone else for that matter) care?

    you can’t be for the equal rights of one group or some people and not want it for everyone. you can’t call yourself an activist against bullying for YOUR group when you turn around and are perfectly content to encourage and participate in the bullying of another group.

  778. @ 781, Whoa, dude, mimicry really puts me in my place! How very middle school of you, and in keeping with your character.

    I got your point completely, bub – you’re possibly the biggest anti-fat bully on slog, far more deserving of the label than Dan, and you’re widdle feelings were stung by this post, so you had to post three rapid-fire comments that said nothing that hadn’t been said hundreds of time of this post already (except for the Simpsons quote). To assuage your self-righteous judgmentalism – not to contribute.

  779. I think it would be funny if this monster thread on eating and body image stoped at ate-hundred and ate-y ate. I’m doing my part how about you.

  780. Now let me give you the other side of the “fat” coin: I had weight loss surgery in 2005 – simply because I was led to believe that my life would change completely afterward. Well let me tell ya: it DEFINITELY changed. I haven’t had a date since. I now weigh a svelte 160 (formerly 287 lbs.) and look & feel great.

    The surgery was AWFUL. I had major complications and ended up septic, in a coma for 5 weeks and almost died. My family was called in to say goodbye. A full TWO years recovering. Am now a walking “miracle” according to the doctors.

    If I had it to do over again, would I? HELL NO. I’d have stayed fat, gone into therapy, and learned to accept myself as I was.

  781. 782, Wow, you’re really flying off the handle here. Maybe you should take a break from the internet. You’re taking it way too seriously. Try not to worry so much about what I post. Ask yourself why it upsets you so much.

  783. I was never as heavy as Lindy, but I recently celebrated that my BMI went from the “Obesity” to the “Overweight” category.

    I’ve always had a crap metabolism – when I was a teenager and my friends were eating pretty much anything they wanted and not exercising that much, I was eating salads and going to aerobics classes several days a week, on top of occasionally running cross country with my brother (whose legs were a full foot longer than mine at the time – and he insisted I keep up with him). I actually went through a year and a half in college where I didn’t touch a slice of pizza or drink alcohol to keep my weight down. I picked Geology as a profession not just because it was challenging, but because it was physical. I picked apartments on upper levels not just for safety, but for the necessity of climbing stairs. My life was about trying to keep my weight down – not for vanity (I only flirted with “skinny” once, mostly I’ve been at a healthy, curvy weight), but for my health. With many overweight people on one side of the family, it was easy to see how it was important to maintain a healthy weight.

    After an accident left me unable to perform field work and I switched to a desk job, even my modest intake couldn’t keep the weight gain under control until I carved several hours out of my day for exercise. Moving to a new part of the world (with a new doctor and RD, a staple of my dieting strategy) didn’t help either – instead of living in a walkable urban environment, I moved to suburban hell without sidewalks (my husband’s aspiration, not mine). My daily walks to my errands were eliminated. My weight increased.

    Did my doctor and RD listen when I said I cheated on my I-might-eat-as-much-as-1,500 calorie diet occasionally, not daily? Did they listen when I told them I was working out – very hard – 4 days a week? No.

    Because despite me being completely candid in my diet and exercise logs and telling them I’ve always had a slow metabolism and had been tested for thyroid levels more than once, it was easier for them to say “She’s just not trying,” or “Are you really being honest?” Tired of being accused, I did start eating more and working out less so my weight ballooned. I was so tired of being accused of cheating on what was a lifelong routine that I figured I might as well get the “benefits” of doing what they claimed I was doing. (Stupid, I know.)

    It took my doctor noticing my heavy mane had turned into thinner locks to finally run that thyroid test. Which this time, came back screamingly hypothyroid. Adjusted with meds and on a 1,200 calorie diet and heavy exercise routine, it’s amazing how my weight is now coming back down steadily. But I can’t help but think that I never would have gotten so heavy if someone had actually believed I didn’t think of being fat as an irretrievable lifestyle. If they didn’t notice I was complaining and was asking for help.

    I don’t like being fat. Lindy is right – fat people have enough shame. But it doesn’t help when society refuses to believe when you’re trying.

  784. Great post Lindy! I’m pretty loyal to Dan in general, but I do get what you’re saying. Ironically, I’ve found Dan’s comments helpful in general, because he made me realize that there really are men who prefer a bit of cushion for the pushin. For me personally, he took away the shame factor of being an overweight woman who is also sexual.

    However, I definitely get that two people can read the exact same comments and interpret them in entirely different ways and that’s ok. I found his direct approach really liberating, because so many people will just tell you what you want to hear.

    I’ve been thin and I’ve been chubby, but not obese- and you are absolutely right that being thin and buying size 8 or 10 pants at the gap doesn’t magically fix any problems other than finding clothes a bit easier. Whatever insecurities I have were the same when I was thin. I was actually tougher on myself when I was thin, because I compared myself to other thin women. What I’ve found though, is that as long as you know who you are and what you’re about, it matters so much less if anyone else knows it. When people make those kinds of hurtful comments it really is about their own fears.

  785. We feel your anger yet your target “life” ain’t lisnin’. Isn’t is ironic that the banner ad above your column is for a cupcake shop?

    We are all subject to the genetic roulette wheel of procreation. Body habitus has a strong genetic component as does one’s psyche. That said, we fool ourselves believing that we can have our cupcake and eat it too. We write and read endlessly about unhealthy food all the while sitting on our ever expanding arses living the sedentary lifestyle that will bury us before our genes would predict. Obesity is quite rare in poor countries and they have the same genetic variation as we.

    I agree you should proclaim yourself beautiful to yourself first and be realistic about what you can and are willing to accomplish to achieve your body shape/fitness/health goals. When dealing with others self confidence and respect enhance your attractiveness, So too does avoidance of the oh-so common group speak laced with f-bombs and partisan social issues statements( we don’t care).

    Learn from nature, Grasshopper…eat plants, avoid processed foods and animal fats, walk every day, throw out the TV, smile more, believe in yourself……..then it will be time for you to leave…your self described fat self-image

  786. We feel your anger yet your target “life” ain’t lisnin’. Isn’t is ironic that the banner ad above your column is for a cupcake shop?

    We are all subject to the genetic roulette wheel of procreation. Body habitus has a strong genetic component as does one’s psyche. That said, we fool ourselves believing that we can have our cupcake and eat it too. We write and read endlessly about unhealthy food all the while sitting on our ever expanding arses living the sedentary lifestyle that will bury us before our genes would predict. Obesity is quite rare in poor countries and they have the same genetic variation as we.

    I agree you should proclaim yourself beautiful to yourself first and be realistic about what you can and are willing to accomplish to achieve your body shape/fitness/health goals. When dealing with others self confidence and respect enhance your attractiveness, So too does avoidance of the oh-so common group speak laced with f-bombs and partisan social issues statements( we don’t care).

    Learn from nature, Grasshopper…eat plants, avoid processed foods and animal fats, walk every day, throw out the TV, smile more, believe in yourself……..then it will be time for you to leave…your self described fat self-image

  787. If you don’t care what other people think about your body…why are you so up in arms? Why all this indignation when you keep saying you don’t care and don’t need to justify your shape, when throughout this entire thing, YOU DO.

    I’m of the opinion that if you are so large you look like a melting Jabba candle, you shouldn’t do anything but either lose the weight to be a more efficient, productive member of society, or take yourself out of it. Personally I’m tired of seeing 600 pounders moving slowly through the candy aisle of Wal-Mart on a damn scooter meant for cripples and old people. If you are 600 pounds, you have no fucking right to complain, it is your own damn fault for allowing yourself to become so enormous.

    Please understand, I am NOT against large people, I was once very large myself and I know, personally, all about it (I was 5′ and over 200 lbs in high school, not as bad as some, but I did experience some bad times….it was high school after all). I am against the people so large that they can’t even move properly to get a job done. Logically speaking such enormous people are simply NOT CAPABLE of moving as fast and completing as much work as efficiently as other people.

  788. If you don’t care what other people think about your body…why are you so up in arms? Why all this indignation when you keep saying you don’t care and don’t need to justify your shape, when throughout this entire thing, YOU DO.

    I’m of the opinion that if you are so large you look like a melting Jabba candle, you shouldn’t do anything but either lose the weight to be a more efficient, productive member of society, or take yourself out of it. Personally I’m tired of seeing 600 pounders moving slowly through the candy aisle of Wal-Mart on a damn scooter meant for cripples and old people. If you are 600 pounds, you have no fucking right to complain, it is your own damn fault for allowing yourself to become so enormous.

    Please understand, I am NOT against large people, I was once very large myself and I know, personally, all about it (I was 5′ and over 200 lbs in high school, not as bad as some, but I did experience some bad times….it was high school after all). I am against the people so large that they can’t even move properly to get a job done. Logically speaking such enormous people are simply NOT CAPABLE of moving as fast and completing as much work as efficiently as other people.

  789. r u people real?! have you nothing better to do in your misbegotten lives than hurl insults at eachother about how you do/don’tlook or what you think or dont think about what someone looks like?
    there’s been an attempt at a democratic change in egypt, south & north somalia have split, missionaries are being murdered by islamists in pakistan, iraq & whathaveyou, the pope is trying to beatify a nazi collaborator, on one hand, and a man who was behind the coverup of raping priests on the other, forget palestinians, jews in sweden, BP buying an oil firm from the russian mafia, bankers living off of your tax dollars, and all you’ve got to worry about is calories?
    get a life!!!!!!

  790. @780 xina: I think it’s pretty universally true that people say things in an anonymous forum that they would never say to someone’s face. You only have to think back to comments by Loveschild, period troll, or Seattleblues to know that’s the case.

    To use your “hall monitor” idea, to a degree, we as a society do that all the time, in a variety of areas. We penalize people who engage in risky behaviour by raising their car insurance after an accident, or in a preemptive way if they are male and between 17 and 25. We ostracize smokers by progressively limiting the areas where they can smoke, taxing their product, and publishing stories about the evils of smoking (when was the last time you read an editorial about how great smoking is?) We have check-stops to catch drunk drivers, and ad campaigns that target drug use. Rightly or wrongly so, I think any organized society throughout history has used public shaming to make its members fall into line with the ideal standard. I’m not taking a pro shaming stance, just pointing out that I think it’s human nature, especially in cases where behaviour is seen as malleable (teens can be cautious drivers, people can stop smoking, people can have sex with condoms, etc.) And in the case of unprotected sex, I have yet to hear or read about someone who rails louder about the dangers of condomless sex than Dan Savage. The problem on this thread is that there seems to be a debate about whether it is possible (or not) for some people to lose weight, in short, is it a choice, or is it just how they are? As far as bulllying goes–which, of course, is always wrong–a quick look at Google suggests that overweight people (>63%) now outnumber non-overweight people, so if there is fat shaming going on, it is being done by the minority. (And I’m not saying people should ever bully one another, just pointing out that statistic.) As far as health concerns go, I’m not a doctor, but from what I’ve read, there does seem to be evidence that excess weight is unhealthy. If greater than 63% of people in the US smoked, or were alcoholics, or had unprotected sex, there would no doubt be ad campaigns, editorials, and other forms of societal pressure designed to change behaviour. And while I agree that it is terrible for people to think they can say cruel things to a person’s face, I do want to know what the most current research is saying about weight. I do want to hear about it when a study suggests that waistlines over a certain number of inches predict certain health issues/shortened life span in the future. Much the same way that my mom’s generation learned that smoking wasn’t just “for fun,” it was also cancer-causing, our generation has learned that certain weights predispose people to certain health concerns later in life.

    I understand that the point of Lindy’s post, and many of the comments on this thread, are saying “it’s wrong to shame people, and my body is my business,” but I think the other people who are commenting constructively are not saying “ew,” but rather debating the “change is impossible” idea.

  793. titties!

    sorry, just wanted to be part of this thread. i feel for ya lindy, i know another lindy and she’s pretty large too. maybe it’s your parents’ fault.

  797. You speak the truth, Lindy! There is so much shame surrounding the body for both men and women, smaller and larger people. And all studies both in the U.S. and in Asia-will get back with links if you are really a dumbass enough to think otherwise- show that shaming people into some sort of change, proves to be costly. It’s the opportunity cost model: You are shamed into loosing weight, yet you will have to feel guilty about your body.
    I have been large and super thin. And neither has ever made me feel “good.” When I was larger, I wanted to slimmer and happier, and I fixated on it. When I was slimmer, I wondered why it didn’t just all come together, or, was I thin enoug? Or, how will I stay thin?
    What did I realize? It’s about what’s going on with me, emotionally, that leads me to project onto the body. Not until I worked through those feelings that have been deep-seeded was able to accept my body as this entity that carries me from one place to another, that houses some important thoughts and feelings, that can finally do a pull up or two… Despite what size I am.
    THANK YOU, LINDY, for becoming vulnerable. You have clearly opened up a conversation in such a way that people feel safe sharing. THANK YOU.

  798. Lindy, you rock.
    Self-acceptance/self-love breeds acceptance and love of others. Empathy is born from honoring our own suffering and struggles and extending that respect to others in their struggle. Seems like Dan might need some understanding for his sad affliction of being utterly clueless. We can only hope he comes to terms with himself.

  800. You speak the truth, Lindy! And I hope this gets picked up by a larger audience, as this is a TRULY important conversation!

    There is so much shame surrounding the body for both men and women, smaller and larger people. And all studies both in the U.S. and in Asia-will get back with links if you are really a dumbass enough to think otherwise- show that shaming people into some sort of change, proves to be costly. It’s the opportunity cost model: You are shamed into loosing weight, yet you will have to feel guilty about your body.
    I have been large and super thin. And neither has ever made me feel “good.” When I was larger, I wanted to slimmer and happier, and I fixated on it. When I was slimmer, I wondered why it didn’t just all come together, or, was I thin enoug? Or, how will I stay thin?
    What did I realize? It’s about what’s going on with me, emotionally, that leads me to project onto the body. Not until I worked through those feelings that have been deep-seeded was able to accept my body as this entity that carries me from one place to another, that houses some important thoughts and feelings, that can finally do a pull up or two… Despite what size I am.
    THANK YOU, LINDY, for becoming vulnerable. You have clearly opened up a conversation in such a way that people feel safe sharing. I am inspired.

  801. @767 – Your last several posts have shown that you have a nearly Ron Paul-gold standard obsession with the conspiracy that is BMI. I’m not a nutritionist, but I’ll give it a shot.

    BMI is not used as a tool to diagnose individuals, generally speaking. It’s more of a statistical measurement. Ultimately it’s just a height-weight ratio, which is useful for examining population trends. Yes, your doctor may tell you that your BMI puts you in unhealthy territory, but by no means is that the end of the diagnosis. Any doctor will then run further tests to determine the condition of your health (blood pressure, cholesterol, heart rate, body fat, etc.). BMI is an inexact tool, but it’s not worthless–especially when used to measure changes in a population over time.

    I understand that you believe that BMI is a crock, and that’s fine. But surely you recognize that Americans have gained a significant amount of weight relative to height over the last few decades. Does that mean that Americans are less healthy? Well, that fact alone doesn’t. But science tells us that increased weight contributes to the likelihood that an individual will develop diabetes, heart disease, various cancers, and we can see that the prevalence of these diseases have tracked proportionally with the increase in our population’s weight. Does being “fat” mean that you are unhealthy? Not always, but sometimes. Each person is different. But on average, it does mean an increase in the likelihood that you will develop these problems later in life.

    Not everyone in this thread who is arguing that being over weight or obese is unhealthy is doing so because we “hate” fat people or we don’t like to look at fat rolls. Many of us have a genuine concern that our population is becoming more and more unhealthy. As I’ve mentioned in a previous comment, this certainly appears to be correlated with a number of factors: fewer manual labor jobs, less active lifestyles (TV’s, computers, video games), processed and refined foods, bombardment by junk food advertisers, etc, not that I think fat people are inherently more lazy than fit people. I don’t care if any individual is fat, so long as they’re fine with it. But I do care that the health of our country is rapidly worsening. If we can find a way to stop the increase in these diseases without people losing weight, well, fine. But it doesn’t seem to be a likely solution.

  802. Note to the new posters, the Slog can be a little slow and buggy but trust that is working and avoid the urge to click twice on the post button.

  803. @681: I understand the idea of the basis for comparison. I have a body that is currently about 25 pounds heavier than my BMI would call ideal (though that means more like 15 more than I would call ideal) and yes, it bothers me, and yes, I make decisions to try and combat it.

    However, when someone is eating healthy and exercising and making good choices about their health, and still not losing weight, they are doing what they need to do, and a certain amount of compromise is necessary from one’s partner if you are not to turn from a long-term partner into a long-term asshole.

    I also reject the idea of weight loss at any cost being healthy. Eating 600 calories a day in order to lose those pounds and under 1000 to keep them off cannot possibly be less unhealthy than carrying the weight on a body that is otherwise well-maintained. That’s the behavior of an anorexic. Likewise, if you have to exercise four hours a day in order to keep your body in trim condition lest your partner stop finding you attractive, what’s unhealthy is the relationship, not the body. An hour of exercise is more than enough for health. If that amount of effort is not enough to stay trim enough so your current partner wants you, then your partner wants the ideal body, and the actual you has become irrelevant to the relationship. That is not a state that any partner should be proud to admit.

  804. You guys realize that for Lindy to maintain the weight that she is with ZERO exercise she has to consume around 4,000 calories A DAY? That is a HUGE amount of junk food. If that doesn’t put it in perspective; what will?

  806. This honestly sounds like a justification for being unhealthy, similar to posts by individuals who support “pro ana” (pro-anorexia) lifestyles. For every height and weight, there’s a minimum healthy weight and maximum healthy weight. Anything below or above that specified range is not healthy. Period. It taxes the body and the mind. Undereating and overeating signify psychological issues that need to be dealt with before balance can be restored to the body.

    It’s a gorgeous fact of life that individuals come in all shapes and sizes. That’s the truth. But being too thin or too fat is a sign of unbalance. To me, it’s the unbalance that is unattractive.

    I am 30 years old, 5’6, and maintain a weight of around 125. I have been lower – around 115 – and higher – around 140, and I can tell you that both the periods of weight loss and weight gain in my life were associated with times of pain, stress, and general emotional unrest. These were not good times for me.

    I have friends who are overweight. They acknowledge that they overeat because of emotional/psychological issues that have not yet been resolved. Some of them have unresolved issues from far back in their childhoods. This is a huge concern to me. So I could never support obesity in any form. Just as I cannot support anorexia or any other eating disorder.

  807. Bully for you. I would like to know what exactly you mean by “trying to lose weight.” But if you want to be fat, be fat.

    But if you take your clothes off, I will find you unsightly. It’s one thing for you to tell me to respect your preferred appearance, but entirely another for you to insist that I find it attractive.

  808. Hi, Lindy.

    Thanks so much for writing this awesome piece. I really appreciate how you didn’t, in the piece, talk a ton about how nutritionally/morally sound your health habits are in the way that does the whole good fat person/bad fat person bifurcation deal, and instead kept it about overcoming haters with some fierce-effing self love and feminist wit (cause do we really think that fat people should have to get an ‘excuse’ pass by reciting their health habits to anyone that feels entitled to know?)

    Also, I do want to address the haters here by saying that people who respond to awesome social commentary by fat people about fat phobia with this kind of derision: “you are infringing on my inalienable right to not find fat attractive by criticizing this/putting my interiority on trial in some moral court of truth” 1) totally miss the point of social commentary–you don’t have to like it or agree. get over yourself. 2) it’s not about you. people are allowed to write things you don’t agree with and that somehow implicate you as oppressive without you having a comment section cry-in about it. 3) these very smart people don’t want to date you anyway, so we don’t care what you think and 4) this kind of derision and dismissiveness really does point out an intense scrutiny/dislike directed at fat girls/women that you feel entitled to upholding and 5) how can you be so self-centered to think that other people’s bodies need to conform to your narrow ideas of attractiveness so the collective space of the worldly visual landscape meets your needs, and then be so thick-headed to not even recognize a good opportunity to rethink this when someone really smart offers you one?

    Lastly, I did want to say, Lindy, that I don’t think that all fat people on earth feel this way. I think it is something that is produced by specfic histories and kinds of gazes/surveillance/policing and held in place by raced and gendered oppressions. In other words, I think this stuff is very racialized, around which women’s bodies are supposed to be what kind of size, and the kazillion different directions that moves thru the world. i think that fat activism/analysis has abilities to blow open raced-gendered strictures of ideas about bodies that hold all kinds of other ugly oppression in place, but that that analysis has to get down seriously to thinking about how racialized ideas about body size are, and then how racialized ideas about body size play into larger systems that decided which bodies matter and how. hope this make sense. Take care, keep writing!

  809. Hi, Lindy.

    Thanks so much for writing this awesome piece. I really appreciate how you didn’t, in the piece, talk a ton about how nutritionally/morally sound your health habits are in the way that does the whole good fat person/bad fat person bifurcation deal, and instead kept it about overcoming haters with some fierce-effing self love and feminist wit (cause do we really think that fat people should have to get an ‘excuse’ pass by reciting their health habits to anyone that feels entitled to know?)

    Also, I do want to address the haters here by saying that people who respond to awesome social commentary by fat people about fat phobia with this kind of derision: “you are infringing on my inalienable right to not find fat attractive by criticizing this/putting my interiority on trial in some moral court of truth” 1) totally miss the point of social commentary–you don’t have to like it or agree. get over yourself. 2) it’s not about you. people are allowed to write things you don’t agree with and that somehow implicate you as oppressive without you having a comment section cry-in about it. 3) these very smart people don’t want to date you anyway, so we don’t care what you think and 4) this kind of derision and dismissiveness really does point out an intense scrutiny/dislike directed at fat girls/women that you feel entitled to upholding and 5) how can you be so self-centered to think that other people’s bodies need to conform to your narrow ideas of attractiveness so the collective space of the worldly visual landscape meets your needs, and then be so thick-headed to not even recognize a good opportunity to rethink this when someone really smart offers you one?

    Lastly, I did want to say, Lindy, that I don’t think that all fat people on earth feel this way. I think it is something that is produced by specfic histories and kinds of gazes/surveillance/policing and held in place by raced and gendered oppressions. In other words, I think this stuff is very racialized, around which women’s bodies are supposed to be what kind of size, and the kazillion different directions that moves thru the world. i think that fat activism/analysis has abilities to blow open raced-gendered strictures of ideas about bodies that hold all kinds of other ugly oppression in place, but that that analysis has to get down seriously to thinking about how racialized ideas about body size are, and then how racialized ideas about body size play into larger systems that decided which bodies matter and how. hope this make sense. Take care, keep writing!

  811. @794 I hear you. I just don’t see how any of the vitriol against fat and fat people will change the obesity epidemic. I ABSOLUTELY believe that being obese affects your health, I know it to be fact because I am obese and it is affecting my health. However, never has anyone’s comments about my weight, what I am eating, why I need a walker (and I need a walker because I have progressive, degenerative neuromuscular disease that is stealing my ability to walk, not because I am obese), or how all I need to do is _______________ and I will lose weight, it’s so easy, have ever, in any way, been of any help to me, nor do I think they are helpful to anyone who is obese.

    My problem is that everyone seems to think they KNOW the exact reason why someone is obese and they know the exact way that person can lose weight. They don’t and all the haters on this board who say it’s so easy because they did it are simpletons. And they are also liars – because if it were so simple and so easy then no one would be obese!

    When I weighed 180 (at 5’5″) and saw a doctor annually and had low blood sugar, low cholesterol, and no health problems no one ever said anything to me about being overweight. No doctor ever said to me you need to lose weight and you need to do it because the extra weight you are carrying now will negatively affect your health when you are older, so here is a detailed plan on how we can work together to get you to a healthy weight – it won’t be easy but it can be done. When I was being treated for depression with one antidepressant after another and none of them worked and I gained 60 pounds the only thing my doctors said was that it couldn’t possibly be the medication causing that weight gain. (Years later it turns out I had depression caused by sleep apnea, which is not treatable with anything but a CPAP – so all of those medications they gave me that made me gain weight – they were never going to work no matter what). Then I was diagnosed with my neuromuscular disease and while I had lost 40 pounds during the stress of medical testing and not knowing was going on – at 200 pounds she said to me DO NOT GAIN WEIGHT as it will affect your mobility even more, especially as your disease progresses. well guess what, I gained weight. despite the fact that even when i am dedicating 4-6 hours of my week exercising (which is a lot for me given the limitation i have) i still have to contend with the fact that i have so much more sedentary time and that combined with the medications i am on makes managing my weight very difficult. when was diagnosed (finally!) with sleep apnea in 2009 no doctor took the time to tell me that having sleep apnea affects not only your weight, but also your ability to lose weight – and that it puts tremendous stress on your entire body internally. when i was diagnosed by my primary care physician as pre-diabetic (also in 2009) the only thing my doctor had to say to me was “eat healthy and lose weight.” i’ve worked with nutritionists and nurses through my health insurance provider and i have participated in a pre-diabetes weight loss class funded by NYS and facilitated by the YMCA. i work hard to eat healthy and as i am disabled and live with my mom i cook all of our meals and we eat quite well – tons of fruits and veggies and lean meats and whole grains and beans, etc. i lost 30 pounds and gained it all back. i am struggling to lose weight but currently am completely unable to exercise at all because i can’t go in the pool because of a rash/allergy problem they have yet to identify. here i am again going through more medical testing and the prednisone they put me on to get rid of the rash made me gain 10 pounds. as someone who is disabled, unable to work, socially isolated (except for the internet), and who struggles daily with how my life has radically changed since i became disabled and i look down the barrel of how my disease could progress, do i use food for comfort? yes i do. i work really hard not to and i know i need to work harder not to, but i fully acknowledge that i do. could i starve myself thin? should i become an anorexic? those are options i suppose. living on a severely restricted caloric intake for the rest of my life is the only option i have if i no longer want to be obese (and i’m talking 1000 calories or less a day).

    my situation is one situation and it is a unique and complex situation. do i think everyone who is obese has such a unique and complex situation – no, but the truth is i don’t know and it’s none of my business and it’s not my job to police them and force them to lose weight anymore than it is anyone else’s job to do that to myself or others. and those who feel so freely to police fat people would likely be completely up in arms should anyone attempt to police their lives in some way.

    we as a society seem to think it’s just fine to hate on one group when we wouldn’t allow or accept such hating on certain other groups. i will also repeat that none of these people who hate fat people or even the people who may not hate fat people but firmly believe it is very easy for them to lose weight so why don’t they and if they don’t they deserve to be treated the way they will be treated if they remain fat isn’t about caring about the health and well being of other people. if we really cared about the health and well being of other people in this society MONEY wouldn’t be the one thing that fuels everything. it certainly fuels the food industry which is poisoning everyone on a daily basis (EVERYONE – not just fat people!). if we truly cared about the health and well being of other people in our society we wouldn’t allow so many children in america, land of obesity, to go to bed starving every night. if we truly cared about the health and well being of other people in our society we would not allow people to be homeless nor would we completely ignore the plight of the mentally ill. if we truly cared about the health and well being of people in this society we would not be just fine with inequality that exists and keeps getting worse between the haves and have nots in terms of access to health care, healthy food, education, safe places to live, etc. etc. etc.

    all of this argument about caring about fat people’s health and well being and being concerned about how much it costs the health industry is total bullshit. people who want fat people to lose weight want them to do so because they believe fat people are __________________ and they don’t want to look at them or interact with them or sit next to them or see them eat or see them kiss or even see them walk down the street. it’s all about aesthetics.

    again, i’m not saying obesity isn’t a problem. i am saying that there are a lot of overweight people in this society (you stated a statistic of 63%) and shaming them, berating them, bullying them, being nasty to them, talking about them, ostracizing them, refusing to treat them decently, etc. etc. etc. isn’t going to change them. fat people exist and they are human beings with feelings, talents, flaws, hopes, dreams, etc. just like everyone else. just because someone is fat doesn’t mean they are in any way less than anyone else. it just means they are fat. there are a lot of fabulous people in the world and some of them are fat! so what! let them be who they are and move through the world as they choose – JUST LIKE YOU DO.

  812. May I just say how much I would love to be able to publish an essay calling my boss an asshole and then publish it online? Where I know he would read it? Ballsy.

  815. ok, a few points (which may have been covered somewhere, i didn’t read all 8** comments. sorry!):

    1. the double standard. no one tells thin lazy people they need to get up and exercise. because it’s implied they are already acceptable so no extra effort needed. it isn’t health, it’s aesthetic. or possibly seeing a fat person taps into some unconscious fear of societal rejection and their own personal failures.

    2. “open sores” and “rolls of flesh” being equally and intrinsically disgusting. what about examples of cultures across geography and history who have praised this body shape? no culture has ever been into open sore worship.

    3. people are gonna eat too much, drink too much, do it too much, watch too much tv, collect too much shit, talk too much, work too much, blah blah blah. there’s imbalance everywhere. if YOUR life starts going to shit and it’s because of some imbalance, YOU can change it. no one gets it exactly right, ever. there’s bigger problems in the world than how much someone weighs. look at your parents, or your grandparents, or anyone who’s made a difference in your life. was it because they were fit and ate the right foods and exercised all the time? probably not.

  817. My brother did amateur bodybuilding for a while. He regularly saw guys do half the workout routine that he himself did at the gym, and then go across the street to a fast food joint (a dairy queen, I think) and throw down a couple burgers and milkshakes. And they were in perfect physical condition. Meanwhile, he’d see others work their asses off, eat perfect diets, and lose in competitions because they had imperfect genetics.

    Weight and body size are not 100% calories in/calories out. Even Arnold Schwarzenegger has said this about his bodybuilding career. It makes no difference how much you excercise and what your diet is, if your genetics want your body to be a certain size, it will always move in that direction. You can fight it, but it will always default to what your genetics want your body to be.

  818. you said this, and I confirm (now n = 2, that I know of) “Do you know what happened as soon as I rejected all this shit and fell in unconditional luuuuurve with my entire body? I started losing weight. Immediately. WELL LA DEE FUCKING DA.”

    i must add, nobody is gonna do it for you; do it yourself (too).

  819. you said this, and I confirm (now n = 2, that I know of) “Do you know what happened as soon as I rejected all this shit and fell in unconditional luuuuurve with my entire body? I started losing weight. Immediately. WELL LA DEE FUCKING DA.”

    i must add, nobody is gonna do it for you; do it yourself (too).

  820. @807 – I agree that weight loss at any cost is unhealthy, and nobody should adopt a diet of 600, or even 1000 calories. I think that a major contributor to the obesity epidemic is the vast amount of disinformation out there. Hucksters and snake-oil salesmen have a financial interest in selling their magical cure-all programs, and their prescriptions are often even more unhealthy than doing nothing at all.

    I know that many people are offended by weight loss/fitness advice, so stop reading if you’re not interested. I’m not posting this to show how great I am, I’m only putting it up because so many people have expressed frustration that nothing has worked for them in the past. My guess is that they’re just not adopting a reasonable program. This is from personal experience, so it will not be applicable for everyone. In fact, I’ve found that what works for me changes frequently. An important factor is paying attention to what my body is telling me, and adjusting my diet and exercise plan accordingly. If you feel tired or hungry, adjust your routine. Here are my (hopefully) non-controversial tips:

    1. Put far less emphasis on calories and focus on nutrition. Eat nutrient-dense foods (spinach or kale instead of lettuce, for example) and avoid processed and refined foods when possible. One large spinach salad per day with lots of other vegetables and olive oil will get you a ton of nutrients that you’re probably not getting now. Maybe add a multivitamin as well.

    2. Dietary fiber. Eat lots. Yes, you’ll spend more time in the bathroom, but you might be surprised at how much weight you lose from this step alone. I won’t go into the gory details, but we carry quite a bit of weight that’s not in the form of fat, if you know what I mean. For me, this step was a huge revelation. I felt so much better after I started it.

    3. Do NOT cut out all fats. I mentioned the olive oil before, but make sure you’re getting plenty of good fats. In my experience, I’ve found that I feel hungry and tired when I’ve cut out all fats. Avocados, nuts, fish, certain types of vegetable and nut oils, should all be used liberally. I don’t have data to back it up, but I believe that the lack of fats is a big reason why many diets fail.

    4. Lift weights. People trying to lose weight generally seem to be focused on cardio. You don’t have to go for a buff look, but muscle burns calories at rest, so you’re not just burning calories while you exercise. Plus, you tend to see results after a relatively short time. You can’t do situps and think that you’ll lose weight in your gut, but it will tone the muscles and will improve posture. Seeing results has a psychological impact that encourages me to keep going.

    That’s it. People are pretty touchy in this thread, so I’ll just restate that these are just a few ideas for people who are having trouble and might not have tried these before.

  821. Lindy,
    Thank you so very much for your story! This should be inspiring for all of us-fat.skinny,crooked legged,people with zits,bold ones,”ugly” by Hollywood standards and the list can go on….
    I am a thin 39 year old woman that can fit in a small clothes easily and people advised me to go into modeling.I tried…Fuck it! There is much more to life than just being a model.And I love your comment on how deceiving the idea of changing appearance-changing life could be.I AM THIN AND PRETTY AND MY LIFE IS NOT EASIER–NO BETTER JOBS,NO BETTER CHOICES IN LOVE ,NO MORE MONEY …..THAT IS A MYTH !!! I am happily married with my second spouse and my first marriage failed because my ex husband loved me as an exotic beautiful bird to have and proudly parade around.If people want to improve their appearance that is good–they feel better and they have more confidence in themselves,but that will not automatically change their life and make it easier! And finally –what inside is more important than outside!BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE COME IN ALL SHAPES,SIZES AND AGES!!!!!

  822. I remember my parents telling me to “finish everything on my plate” Now twenty years later, the theme is the exact opposite. I feel for Lindy and hope she gets the attention she wants from this article (and the one posted on Meta-Filter…??)

    But, she should have worn the yellow dress to get the part for the live-action SpongeBob movie.

    You ripped other women apart in your infamous review of SITC2 and now you gonna “pay what you owe” as the great Riley Freeman would say.

  823. Absolutely awesome post. Anyone who wants the science behind fat and health – and a strong academic argument for why fat acceptance is supported by solid science, should check out this article called Weight Science: Evaluating the Evidence for a Paradigm Shift: http://www.nutritionj.com/content/10/1/9. I’ve also written a popular press book on the topic called Health at Every Size (www.haesbook.com) and there are plenty of free resources on the book’s website. Rock on…

  825. LMAO! I LOVE the way you write. I have felt the same way.. My background real quick – I lost 100 pounds and now I do fitness modeling and figure competitions…. Its a whole new world to me but deep down nothing can change who you are. One of the most impactful things that my coach Sean Calder told me after I cheated on my diet swan diving into some massive feast was simply “no guilt, it is a waisted emotion.”.. I got a free pass, it felt like forgiveness not only from him but from myself. That day was huge in my journey… Knowing that we screw up, it happens and to just keep living kept me from feeling the guilt and shame that had so many times foiled my dieting plans in the past.

    So you, my new online blogger favorite… Thank you for writing this and sharing it with the world. If there is anything I can do to help you stop the shame and guilt I will.

    Fat girl turned Fitness Nerd – Tiffany Forni

  826. LMAO! I LOVE the way you write. I have felt the same way.. My background real quick – I lost 100 pounds and now I do fitness modeling and figure competitions…. Its a whole new world to me but deep down nothing can change who you are. One of the most impactful things that my coach Sean Calder told me after I cheated on my diet swan diving into some massive feast was simply “no guilt, it is a waisted emotion.”.. I got a free pass, it felt like forgiveness not only from him but from myself. That day was huge in my journey… Knowing that we screw up, it happens and to just keep living kept me from feeling the guilt and shame that had so many times foiled my dieting plans in the past.

    So you, my new online blogger favorite… Thank you for writing this and sharing it with the world. If there is anything I can do to help you stop the shame and guilt I will.

    Fat girl turned Fitness Nerd – Tiffany Forni

  827. @ 770 – How kind of you to suggest that Lindy learn to channel all that shame directed at her from the general public (because her body is somehow outside accepted ‘norms’) into helpful “hate and anger” at that very body. The very one that her brain rides around in all day!!

    So helpful. And So Very Indicative of your complete inability to comprehend The Point of Lindy’s piece.

    I know it’s the internet and they’ll let Just Anybody up in here, but DAYUMMM some of y’all are some pathetic little toads. Thanks for making that so obvious to the rest of us!!

  828. LMAO! I LOVE the way you write. I have felt the same way.. My background real quick – I lost 100 pounds and now I do fitness modeling and figure competitions…. Its a whole new world to me but deep down nothing can change who you are. One of the most impactful things that my coach Sean Calder told me after I cheated on my diet swan diving into some massive feast was simply “no guilt, it is a waisted emotion.”.. I got a free pass, it felt like forgiveness not only from him but from myself. That day was huge in my journey… Knowing that we screw up, it happens and to just keep living kept me from feeling the guilt and shame that had so many times foiled my dieting plans in the past.

    So you, my new online blogger favorite… Thank you for writing this and sharing it with the world. If there is anything I can do to help you stop the shame and guilt I will.

    Fat girl turned Fitness Nerd – Tiffany Forni

  829. LMAO! I LOVE the way you write. I have felt the same way.. My background real quick – I lost 100 pounds and now I do fitness modeling and figure competitions…. Its a whole new world to me but deep down nothing can change who you are. One of the most impactful things that my coach Sean Calder told me after I cheated on my diet swan diving into some massive feast was simply “no guilt, it is a waisted emotion.”.. I got a free pass, it felt like forgiveness not only from him but from myself. That day was huge in my journey… Knowing that we screw up, it happens and to just keep living kept me from feeling the guilt and shame that had so many times foiled my dieting plans in the past.

    So you, my new online blogger favorite… Thank you for writing this and sharing it with the world. If there is anything I can do to help you stop the shame and guilt I will.

    Fat girl turned Fitness Nerd – Tiffany Forni

  830. For those folks commenting that anti-smoking laws or drunk driving laws are somehow comparable to efforts to promote healthy lifestyle… hold on a minute. Such laws are motivated by first and foremost by PUBLIC SAFETY, not public health. A drunk driver can KILL me if I happen to be near him/her on the road. A smoker in the same enclosed space with me can make me sick or potentially kill me (e.g if I’m asthmatic or have some severe respiratory condition) me by forcing me to breathe their carcinogens.

    A fat person’s extra weight has ZERO EFFECT on my safety or health. They might increase my overall insurance costs, society’s health costs in general, etc. but Lindy correctly shoots down that argument in her #3.

    Now, onward to 1000!!

  832. Srsly, these comments (and I have now read 7/8ths of them) seem mostly divided into The People Who Get It, and the People Who are Frothing Mad At Fatties.

    And I’ve seen the question asked several times, and not yet answered — what is the source of all this vicious hatred for strangers who carry extra fuel on their frames? You Hate Possessors aren’t nearly as good as examining your prejudices, beliefs and motivations as you are at attempting to deconstruct what you perceive to be the failings of strangers. Why All The Amped-Up Hate?

    The intensity of the anger expressed here leads me to think that the source is just simple fear and insecurity on the part of the H8rs. Is that really it, that y’all are so quakingly afraid of carrying extra weight yourselves that you lash out and project all your inner squicky fears onto others whom you perceive to be easy targets? Isn’t that what they tell us about society’s views of the homeless, for instance – that people become so freaked out about The Homeless because, secretly, they are afraid of ever becoming homeless themselves? That really, a lot of people know deep down that they themselves are only a paycheck or two away from being homeless… (that they are only a few weeks-of-lax-eating away from muffin-topping over their own jeans…) and that they just can’t handle the proximity to what they perceive as utter lack of control and/or personal failure?

    You (many!) folks who didn’t understand Lindy’s article: she’s not talking about the extra fuel on her frame, she’s in fact talking ABOUT YOU and What The Hell Is YOUR Problem Anyway? She assures you that she does not need your help with HER problem, but she’d really like for you to, perhaps for the first time, consider YOUR PROBLEM.

    Not —> her problem. No. Let’s instead talk about YOUR FRICKIN PROBLEM. And what is at the root of the intensity. And why you can’t shut up about it. And WHAT THE HELL IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH OTHER PEOPLE’S BODIES ANYWAY??

    Do you get it now?

  833. Lindy, it’s similar to what happened to me between marriages. At first desperate for a partner, went on many first dates-not often asked for a second. Gradually inner voice changed and told me I was just fine and didn’t NEED a man, though they could be entertaining. Suddenly there were *9* guys ranging from 15 years older to 15 years younger than I vying for my attention! After several weeks of exhausting dating (NOT bedding) and then working during the day, decided to cut some loose, reached for phone, and it rang-first guy I’d been planning to call, the oldest, cutting ME loose for much the same reason. Shortly thereafter, met Tom, and we were best buds for 18 months before we fell in love. I was finally ready. Btw he’s 9 years younger. Younger is better. Just sayin’.

  834. I’ve always been heavy, and up until a few years ago shame and fear of jugement were exactly what was *keeping* me from the gym. Then I applied to study abroad, was told I was going to France, and the prospect of being fat in a truly skinny country got my ass moving. In the year before I left, I started exercising on the elliptical, tracked my food and got down do 225lbs from 275–at 5’10”, I can carry it reasonably well, but I was definitely NOT skinny.

    While I was there I lost another seven pounds, but this time without any specific diet or exercise. Sure, I was walking absolutely everywhere, but the French are famous for having tons of butter everywhere, and cheese and wine and bread (some of my greatest and most delicious downfalls). But for some reason, despite doing NOTHING purposeful to improve my cardio or strength, I continued to lose weight. But I also lost a lot of the strength and endurance I had gained in preparation for the trip…

    So here’s the real anecdote. As soon as I got back to the US, two things happened. I started working out again, and I gained weight. Now I’m training for a 10k and taking two ridiculous fitness classes (my roommate, who use to do cross country, calls me a masochist) and I weigh 235. I’m healthier than I’ve ever been in my life, healthier than most of my friends no matter their size, and am still a size 14/16/18 depending on the brand and cut.

    The mental health thing is a HUGE deal for me. The fact that we focus SO MUCH on physical health, or perceived physical health, to the point of harming each others mental health, is the biggest problem I see with this whole mess. Obviously there is a certain point where you simply can’t be heavy and healthy at the same time, but that doesn’t mean those people deserve your judgement or that it’s okay to treat them as second class citizens in any way. We have heard it ALL before, and obviously it hasn’t changed what some of us are doing.

    My physical health is all about my mental health–as soon as I focused on wanting to be healthy, not skinny or pretty, the motivation was there. I stopped stepping on the scale every day, and simply made it a priority to take time to treat myself well, whether that means a few more minutes in the shower, or going for a run, or sitting on the couch and catching up on House. Slowly, exercise and good food became motivated by the same reasons I floss and wash my face twice a day. This is the only body I have, and I want to take good care of it and revel in its power and beauty. Once you begin to perceive treating yourself well in EVERY way as a selfish and fun act, and that you DESERVE it, you’re JUST as entitled to feeling good as anyone else, it isn’t so painful–it can even be fun. Finding healthy AND delicious recipes is a game that I always win. Last night, I sauteed up a chicken breast with crimini mushrooms, garlic, artichoke, and a bunch of spices. Tell me that doesn’t sound DELICIOUS! And super healthy and cheap, once you’ve invested in the spices.

    Also, the idea of having one completely guilt free “cheat” day a week is magical. Just one day where I get to eat and drink whatever I want is enough to keep me positive and excited about healthy food the rest of the week, usually because I can instantly feel the difference in how bloated or just kinda “off” I feel, which is enough to curb the cravings until next week when I dive into the happy hour fries and ranch at our local dive bar with gusto.

    This is just what has worked for me. Just know that no matter what your size or health level, you are completely worthy of treating yourself and your body with respect, whatever that means to you.

  835. I love the Stranger, love a lot of Dan’s advice, but his attitude here is sadly ignorant for a man of his obvious intelligence. (And no, I don’t think most of this debate has to do with health – last time I looked, none of those picturesque descriptive terms for fat people were in any medical dictionary – it’s about personal disgust. There are many ‘facts’ about this so-called obesity epidemic and its so-called health consequences that don’t bear examining anyway – if you bother to look them up. Funny how many people are so worried about swallowing the crap the fast-food industry produces, when they swallow the more evil crap the body-hatred (aka ‘weight loss’) industry feeds them without a burp.

    Lindy, you rock, and the next time this Brit is in your beautiful city, I owe you a coffee, or whatever you’re having.

    And, everyone else? Either you already know this or you need to know it: In the phrase ‘fat people’. the most important word is ‘people’.

  837. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS ARTICLE.

    My favorite part:
    “2. You are not concerned about my health. Because if you were concerned about my health, you would also be concerned about my mental health, which has spent the past 28 years being slowly eroded by statements like the above.”

    You’re amazing.

  838. This article was fucking *great.* Haters are always going to be haters. That’s okay. I’d far rather be fat than them, because fuck them. If someone doesnt want to sit next to me because ZOMGFATTY they’re doing ME a favour, because the last thing I ever want is to be exposed to that kind of bigoted, insensitive asshole anyway.

    It might be hard for me to find pants that fit, but you know what? Being fat is the best idiot shield anyone could ever have, because it ensures that my friends are my friends because of who I am and not because of how I look. For that, I am immensely grateful.

    Thank you, Lindy.

  839. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS ARTICLE.

    My favorite part:
    “2. You are not concerned about my health. Because if you were concerned about my health, you would also be concerned about my mental health, which has spent the past 28 years being slowly eroded by statements like the above.”

    You’re amazing.

  840. @ 836, their hate is probably rooted in an ages-old taboo against overeating, which used to be necessary because it was as recent as 40 years ago that we could experience food shortages in the USA. And not long (in terms of human existence) that famines could happen almost anywhere.

    I haven’t read the book others have recommended upthread (“Why We’re Fat”), but “The Omnivore’s Dilemma” touches on this, talking about how the policy of crop subsidies (particularly for corn), coupled with advances in farming that allow for crop yields nature never intended, has flooded this country with excess food. The author mentions the theory that excess biomass (as all this food is) has to be consumed somehow, and it’s led to our ever-increasing food portions, as has the “super size” phenomenon with also got started in the 70s.

    So, basically we have more food than ever, and since our metabolisms haven’t adjusted, we’re eating more than ever because that’s what we’re biologically programmed to do. But the hatred you ask about comes from the old ingrained taboo, something which isn’t easily dispensed with just because the situation which gave it birth is completely changed.

  843. Thank you for saying this, Lindy! You are fantastic and you are right.

    Dan keeps disappointing me. I know that shock-jock sensationalism sells and I know that people have a tendency to cling to their prejudices and cry tears of denial when someone points it out to them because nobody wants to admit that they might be a bigot.

    Do we hold Dan to too high of a standard? Should we just accept that he has as much right to be a small-minded, prejudiced bigot as anyone else?

    Maybe so. But, then, if that were true, he probably wouldn’t be much good as an advice columnist, would he? Dan should be held to a high standard. It’s in his job description.

    And the next time he tries to claim he fat-shaming because he cares and wants to encourage people to change, remind him that that is the same excuse that ex-gay ministries use. It’s bull when they do it and it’s bull when he does it too.

  845. Hmmm I wonder if the reason former fatties who are now skinny are such assholes is because they think they can exact revenge on humanity after all those years of torment with impunity or because they are HUNGRY?
    Just look at Ricky Gervais…funny, but a total asshole now.
    Stay fat Lindy, I bet you’d be an insufferable bitch if you were thin (and not in the good way you are now) ! <3<3<3

  846. Jesus Mary and Joseph! We are going to see 900 if not 1000 comments on this post aren’t we? A nerve has certainly been struck.
    At 48 years old I’m 5’4 and 135 pounds, and I too labor under the delusion that if only I weighed 125 or less my life would somehow be perfect. When I was Lindy’s age I ate whatever the hell I wanted and weighed 105. I couldn’t sit on a hard chair because it hurt my tail bone and the only bra that fit me was a training bra. I couldn’t wear bangles because they fell off my wrist, but could get them up over my elbow to my bicep. All my life I hated my ass, and now that I really have one, I, as a gal staring down the barrel of 50, am getting so much more play than I did at 28 and a buck five. But you know what? I still wish I weighed that little, and that’s fucked up. Even though every day my boyfriends tell me how hot that booty is, I’ll never believe it. Well you know what? Fuck it. Reading this thread yesterday triggered so much fear and self loathing, I skipped breakfast and ran on the tread mill for an hour and a half. Today me and Boyfreind #1 are going to go eat cupcakes. Rock on Lindy.

  848. Wow. This is very important, it makes my misty. Btw that’s a hot pic 😉 Being born a bio female with one arm, I have issues with the normative beauty ideal too. I am 31 and am still working on loving my otherly abled body.

  849. Impressive – not a whole lot of multiple comments here, and not too bogged down by just a few “slogging” at each other. A real community effort.

    This is my third post, and again I’ve enjoyed the many long heart felt annecdotes and personal revelations (like #838 above). I’m seeing more that I agree with, and I’ll add that I feel there is a societal tendency for the lowest common denominator to get way too much attention. In this case, we are blasted with technology that seems to emphasize a certain body weight and shape: “Here is the ideal we all must strive to attain”. Bullshit, and bigotry.

    You can be concerned and supportive of someone struggling with health issues without the moralizing shame regardless of what they are struggling to overcome (weight, acne, cancer, AIDS, nicotine, alcohol). AND you can be polite and truly helpful and not hurtful. If society were picking on another group, would many of these hurtful comments be the same? (Well, maybe nicotine and alcohol and drugs, but I really don’t think so – too much emotion here with the fat and the food and the sex and so on.)

    Let it go and let it be. Thanks Lindy for opening this can o’ gummy worms – good therapy for lots of commenters.

  853. lindy, we’re friends. we hang out every now and then. not regularly, but enough that i would be embarrassed to actually tell you who i am. i want to confess something anonymously…

    the other day, i said something similar to what dan said about worrying about my fat friends’ health. i have a few fat friends, a fat mom, fat aunts, uncles, cousins, my partners a little overweight, and i worry about all them, for all kinds of reasons. but also because their fat and i don’t want them to die early because of it. i even used you as an example when i was talking with my partner about people i love that i don’t want to see go early. i thought it was the right thing to feel and say.

    i see now that it’s been culturally ingrained in me to think that way. and that way of thinking is terrible. after reading your article, i a) feel like a dick, b) understand why i am wrong for thinking that way, and c) am eternally grateful to you for opening my mind.

    thanks, lindy. you are a good friend and a good person, and that’s all that really matters. But it doesn’t hurt that you’re a great writer too.

    p.s. i hope that one day someone will write something similar to this for people with small dicks like me…

  854. @37
    My point is: you don’t get to say “Being fat is like being gay” when in reality you have complete control over being fat.

    Amen.

    @853

    Most homeless people are disgusting drug addicts. I feel no sympathy. They should all be wiped out and welfare done away with… or at least reformed to not focus on the breeders, drug addicts, and crazies… give money to people that actually matter, like those who lost their jobs in the recession. It’s easier for someone who chose to do drugs to get housing and recovery help than someone who doesn’t and lost a job… and I think that is retarded.

  856. Just doing my bit to reach 1000 …

    You look good Lindy! My wife is same height and build as you. She feels the pressure, even tho’ she knows that I don’t care. I like her curves, I think she’s beautiful, and I just want her to be happy.

  857. I am pretty sure Lindy didn’t write this to solicit a bunch of “you’re so hot,” “nice legs,” “I’d hit it” etc etc comments. I know you’re trying to be nice but you’re really missing the point.

  858. After re-reading this post and reading the links provided, I wanted to share some of my thoughts and help hit 1,000.

    I don’t understand why anyone would want to not think about their eating habits as it can directly effect your health.

    I had a serious emotional addiction to food and only cured it by doing the Master Cleanse for 5 days. It was a decision I made after an older friend of mine looked at me very seriously and said “honey, you are way too young to be overweight”. That is a true friend and it took some serious balls (she didn’t say it harshly, it was sincere and shocking to me to hear that from someone point blank).

    I didn’t do it for the weight benefits (I did lose about 10 pounds and continued to lose weight), but for the ability to step back and really look at how I ate. I used food to socialize, attempt to expel negative emotions, and as a method of self destruction. Those 5 days completely changed my life. Don’t get me wrong, I still think about my weight, I think about it everyday just not in the same context. They are positive thoughts, not self shaming acclimations or “I need to lose ____ pounds, then I’ll be happy” kind of thoughts.

    I eat much slower now and finally started listening to my body when it tells me I’m full. So I eat 1/3 of that delicious bacon cheeseburger, and box the rest for later. That’s how you continue to live a full life while being a healthy size (and BONUS: I save myself time and money on that next meal if Mr. B0t doesn’t get to my leftovers first!)

    Everyone deserves to be happy, no matter what size, shape, whatever. It just seems people who are too thin/large are very unhappy and typically project it onto others. This piece seems to be that kind of projection.

    That’s just my experience. I hope Lindy continues to love herself and maybe sheds a few more pounds so I can stop worrying about her keeling over.

  859. Comment #837 was only directed at Lindy’s article, not knowing at the time it was from THE STRANGER. Having now read most of the preceding 836, here’s my weight loss story, too, though I realize no one’s reading anymore. Hefty after divorce, I started eating whatever I wanted when I was hungry and always stopped when I’d eaten a total mass the size of my fist, except at big deal family food celebrations, where I would overindulge that day ONLY-lost 37 pounds in 8 months that way. Stayed comfortably at 107 until allowing a now-nameless chefly boyfriend to overfeed me. Fell in love with Tom & lost the extra by the time of our wedding. We had a son. It took 25 years to shake 17 pounds of baby weight, but I’m 5’2″ and 116 now for over a year.

  860. Also, Dan Savage is a textbook case of someone who is keenly aware of every injustice that affects him personally while being equally oblivious to every injustice that does not.

    AKA an asshole

  861. firstly, the well-wishers who’re assuring lindy that she’s beautiful and sexy are very sweet but are missing the point. don’t assume she needs your approval because she’s fat. that’s lending credence to the idea that fat and beautiful are mutually exclusive, and they’re not, and one can assume she knows that.

    as well, everyone who finds it appropriate to decree that lindy would be more attractive if she lost 100 pounds or whatever is also blitheringly, astonishingly, eye-punchingly missing the point, which is that it is not lindy west’s, or anyone’s, job to give you a boner. the only thing she need to do is stay norwegian and die. you’re saying, excuse me, i don’t know you, but i’m looking at you and i don’t have a boner right now–you need to do something about that. it’s the exact same thing as men in bars who tell me that i’m kinda pretty but i’d be much hotter if i grew my hair out long because they like girls with long hair. won’t someone please think of the boners.

    lindy’s body, like mine and everyone’s who dares to leave their houses with regularity, is none of your fucking business. if you have a problem with the way anyone’s body looks, it is YOUR problem. understand that.

    i say this as a woman who was obese as a kid, who starved away about 80 pounds in high school, then gained back about 60, then lost the 60, then gained and lost and gained 30, most recently over the last three years. i’m currently 5’11” and 190 pounds. i eat very carefully, i go to the gym religiously every other day, and i don’t own a car and walk/bus everywhere. i weigh about 60 pounds less than my mother and my sister, who never walk anywhere and who eat whatever they please, like thin people and/or people who don’t give a shit about what their bodies look like. they eat like everyone who isn’t fat is allowed to.

    more specifically, they eat what their husbands eat. which is the reason i keep gaining that 30 pounds back again and again–i enter into domestic relationships with people who aren’t concerned about their weight. my boyfriend is 38, 5’10”, 170 lbs., and he would eat nachos and jimmy john’s for every single meal if he could. our metabolisms are different. he has no interest in eating lentils for dinner with me, because he can pretty much eat whatever the fuck he wants, and he will stay average-sized forever.

    when he’s sitting in front of the TV scarfing down chinese food and i am famished from living on leaves and birdseed, it is really fucking hard to resist the smell of food that tastes delicious. try doing this, if you haven’t before. go on a 1500-calorie-a-day diet and live with a guy who puts cheese on everything he eats and sticks it in the microwave before he eats it. and who never gains a pound. take a whiff and then go hide in the bedroom and write angry comments on newspaper blogs instead of eating it. because you’re fat and you don’t deserve to eat delicious things.

    why do i bother with this self-torture bullshit? ’cause unlike lindy, i don’t love my body. i cannot fucking stand being heavy, and i am doing everything i can to lose this weight, yet again. there’s tremendous social pressure upon me to be thin, especially because i’m a woman and it’s my express purpose to be sexy to strangers. i know i’ll be yo-yo-ing like a moron for the rest of my life.

    like, i pride myself for being smart, talented, funny, stylish, kind, charming, for my dozens of other fine qualities, but the idea that my naked body could disgust total strangers trumps them all.

    and christ jesus, i hate that i care. i’m doing this for jerks like you and dan, who might not want to look at me in shorts or sit next to me on an airplane. it’s an appalling injustice to myself. you can’t win.

    when you’re thin, it is really easy to look at a fat person and say, “well, that person is just lazy and greedy. look at me! i’m thin! tra la! how hard can it be!” (it’s even easier to do it when you’ve never been fat.) i know this because, even when i’m thin, i sometimes find myself quietly fat-shaming others, because it’s totally socially acceptable, and even encouraged, to do ridicule fat people.

    if and when i do it, it’s high treason. it’s me saying, “i dislike things about myself, but at least i’m not fat anymore, which i really disliked.”

    the fact is that you–and i–don’t know why people are fat. period. you don’t know how much of it is genetic, or if they’re on medication. you don’t know if they’ve recently given birth. you don’t know if they have a thyroid disorder, or an injury that prevents them from walking, or crippling depression that drive them to comfort themselves with food, or if they are survivors of psychological trauma and/or mental illness that makes them unequipped to follow a diet and exercise plan. you have no idea. it also doesn’t matter. it’s not your place to decide whether they’re OK or not OK.

    and if you don’t know why a person is fat, and you tell that person that it’s their job to lose weight because your sensibilities are offended by looking at him or her, then not only do you have no idea what you’re talking about, but you’re also a callous prizewinning asshole. this isn’t a living room that you can redesign because you don’t like the drapes. it’s a human fucking being. who, as lindy pointed out, is already being crushed by shame all day long and doesn’t need your help to feel shitty. everyone else in the world is already hard at work on this endeavor, thanks.

    but more than anything, his or her body is NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS. thin or fat, tall or short, long-haired or bald-headed. who are you. how dare you.

  863. >>”Do you know what happened as soon as I rejected all this shit and fell in unconditional luuuuurve with my entire body? I started losing weight. Immediately. WELL LA DEE FUCKING DA.”

    I can think of some very good reasons why this might happen, such as the way that depression leads to less activity and more sleeping in the first place.

    Or the way many people turn to food and/or booze as a response to depression.

    Or the way that being ashamed of your body leads to covering yourself in more layers of clothing, which keeps you warmer and thence discourages you from baseline physical activity which would warm you up further. (Tricky thermodynamic/psychological point, but AFAIK and IME true.)

    There are so many ways in which our mood affects our behavior… and reinforces what Lindy said above about mental health.

  864. I think the best sentence Lindy wrote was this one: “I am not making excuses [for my body], because I have nothing to excuse.” If anything, the onus is on the anti-fat to explain why Lindy needs to be providing an excuse. And one minor critique: healthy people whining about fat people inducing a rise in insurance premiums can be analogized to a bunch of situations, not just childless taxpayers helping to fund schools. For example, people in safe neighborhoods paying for police officers in dangerous ones; non-defendant taxpayers helping to fund public defenders for the poor; helping to pay for the local library to buy some books in Spanish, even though you don’t speak Spanish (or use the library, perhaps); . . . My point is just that however the anti-fat see fatness–i.e., a choice, genetically determined, determined in childhood, laziness—you can probably come up with a good analogy to rebut them.

    Keep it up, Lindy! (love love LOVE your film reviews)

  865. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! Thank you for reminding people about their prejudice and warped standards of beauty. You make me proud of my gender!

  867. Ok Lindy and fat people everywhere, among who I used to count myself. Here’s my two cents. It’s not ok to be fat because you suffer needlessly. You spent the first part of your article discussing the shame that you feel. You mentioned the health argument. This is MY experience. I’m a health care provider, an acupuncturist, to be clear. What I see every day, are people who are fat who can’t get pregnant, or can’t get out of a chair due to knee pain, people who are yoked to high blood pressure meds, cholesterol meds, metphormin for diabetes, pain killers for their pain, CPCP machines for sleep apnea, AND the shame you speak of. They have a lot of excuses, why they can’t quit drinking soda (which by the way, I honestly do believe has an addictive quality), why they can’t walk their dogs, why they can’t hit the gym, even though they pay for the membership. I see people who suffer from the side effects of said drugs, diarrhea, breathlessness, insomnia, constipation, depression. If they lost the weight, they could get off the drugs, a half hour walk per day has been shown to reduce depression, 30 grams of fiber a day could resolve their constipation. And THAT is the reason I don’t think it’s just ok to be fat. It’s not ok. When you start to lose your vision from retinal neuropathy from years of high blood sugar, or start to see your friends die from heart attacks in their 50s, and when YOU get nerve pain in your in your feet and start looking for a cure, you’ll be sorry you didn’t address is sooner. And this isn’t coming from a place of judgement or concern about my insurance premiums, it’s honestly coming from a place of compassion. I tell all of my patients, every day, ‘unless you WANT to pay for my summer home, stop drinking soda today”. It’s not ok Lindy, becuase you are the person that’s going to suffer, not me.

  868. It is okay, Lindy and if your article helps even one fat child accept them self as they are then it was well worth the effort. Hmmm I seem to recall saying the same thing when the It Gets Better project started. It seems that some people who rightfully find the bullying of gay and lesbian youth to be repugnant think that bullying and belittling fat kids is just fine. Maybe someone should start a Youtube channel to encourage self acceptance for fat kids. I know that when I told my fat nephew that his school mates were wrong to bully him and that he was okay as he is that just one person validating him gave him encouragement.

  869. @ andrew – You do know it’s a scientific fact that it is more difficult for women to lose weight than it is for men, don’t you?

  870. Another thing I wanted to mention was sustainability and consumption. I don’t know the numbers for men, but for women of average weight (and this will vary depending on height), the daily calorie consumption is 1200-2000 or so. Those who are overweight tend to consume A LOT more than that. If we were to arrange, on a dinner table, the amount of food eaten in one week by an average size person alongside the amount of food eaten in one week by an overweight person, the difference between the piles would be significant.

    Fattening foods tend to be processed foods. Processed foods tend to have a lot more packaging. They tend to require a lot more resources that go into their production, compared to the growing of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and the like. Eating healthy – and wisely – is better for the environment. It is simply more sustainable.

    We cannot afford to merely think of ourselves and our feelings. We can’t just say…”fuck it I’m going to eat whatever I want whenever I want to, and everyone else has to live with my decision”. Well, you can say that if you want to…it’s a free country…but it’s not responsible or wise. We have to think about our actions, and the consequences of our actions on others and the rest of the world.

  874. Health risks of being overweight:

    increased risk of premature death
    increased risk of heart disease
    increased risk of stroke
    increased risk of diabetes
    increased risk of developing cancer
    increased risk of fatty liver disease
    increased risk of gallbladder disease
    increased risk of breathing problems
    increased risk of arthritis
    increased risks on expectant mother and baby
    and more…

    Source: http://www.annecollins.com/obesity/risks&hellip;

    So @857, you were not wrong to fear for the lives of your overweight friends and relatives. It’s scientifically proven that being overweight (just like being underweight) is unhealthy.

  876. 874: Links or it didn’t happen.

    It isn’t necessary to eat like a pig to gain weight. If you are eating one percent more calories than your body needs, your body can continuously squirrel away that one percent extra, resulting in constant weight gain which over time accumulates to unreasonable proportions.

    Second, unless you are prepared to profile everybody to determine their absolute minimum daily intake, and wag an admonitory finger at the skinnies who eat more calories than they absolutely need (and get away with it, because their fat storage routines are lazy) as well as overweight people, your environmental concerns are crocodile tears. You don’t get to just presume that if a skinny person isn’t gaining weight he obviously needs every calorie. Either you carefully measure and ration everybody, or you admit it’s a red herring slathered in bullshit sauce.

  877. I should clarify: I’m not claiming that overconsumption isn’t the root cause for a lot of obesity. In this land of 64-oz Big Gulps and SuperSized fast food that pack two days’ worth of calories into one meal, of course overconsumption is entirely too easy to do, and a lot of people overconsume without thinking about it. It’s just that it’s not like skinny people are thin because all of them abstemiously count their calories. You see plenty of rails at the Burger King with fries and a shake, and nobody is accusing them of overconsuming. Some people are lucky enough to have metabolisms that don’t hold onto excess food.

  879. Just my two cents…I don’t think being “fat” is a choice, but I do think that we have constructed very narrow definitions of what “healthy” looks like. Also I guess basic reasonig skills are no longer nurtured because people automatically interpret an article on acceptance to mean “GO EAT ALL THE ICE CREAM AND CAKE POSSIBLE!” That’s missing the point…the point here is about how media and consumerism has turned us against each other and turned us against ourselves. If you’re not skinny enough then you’re cerainly not rich enough and eeew poor people! Ew people wearing last season! Ew people driving practical cars! Our society has devolved into shaming restraints and the notion of community (An evolutionary trait that helped us not get eaten by lions) has been lost…especially in te US where our divisiveness keeps us docile to a government that is quietly taking away our rights. Go ahead and judge fat people…I’m judging you because I drive a nicer car…I mean, if you just worked hard enough you could drive one too. Aaand I also wanted to point out that while I do have that nice car I’m kinda into preserving the environment for us all to enjoy. So I commute 90% by bike..in LA…where everything is 10mi apart minimum..I eat very lightly (my fridge is sparsely populated)..I’m 4’10 and 140lbs…supposedly “fat”…but I’d like you to try to tell me I’m gonna get diabetes with a 20mi round trip daily bike commute. I’m never gonna be “skinny”…when I was skinny it was cause I was puking up every meal..because since I was a kid I had been shamed into hating and attempting to destroy my healthy body. Okay that was more than two cents…blame inflation.

  880. Wow. Lindy writes an articulate, detailed, compassionate article about how and why it is not OK to hate on fat people. After which, a bunch of hateful bigots write in to tell her what they think of her body, health, diet, exercise plan, and lack of moral fiber!? Really?!

    Haters: Are you punking us? Or are you just that stupid?

  881. So far, all the links provided are generalized conclusions that excessive weight can increase the risk of. Well that tells me nothing. Is it a marked increase? Is it one of many factors? (hint: yes) Is it like how going outside without sunscreen can increase your risk of cancer? So far I haven’t seen anything that isn’t confusing correlation and causation or giving actual details. There’s a HUGE difference between a potential risk factor and an actual direct cause and affect.

    Also while *I* and apparently one commentor here knows more about BMI, that is *NOT* how it’s used in a majority of cases. Also I think if a more detailed study was done into the increased insurance rates relating to obesity, it would be linked to doctors ignoring symptoms and problems because the patient is fat and assuming all illnesses come from there when a majority of the time fat is a symptom of a larger disease. In which case being fat is deeply connected to these health risks, just not necessarily as a CAUSE but an indicator of potential problems.

  883. Stay off slog for one day and missed a shitstorm. Lindy <3 and thanks to Kim (in P), Ann (in M) and Canuck for particularly insightful comments.

    Really interested in Dan’s response. Hopefully he’s posted somewhere above.

  884. @881 and 882 — It’s true that some skinny people are naturally skinny without trying. (They should still be responsible for what they consume, and it doesn’t give them an excuse to eat shit.) I’m one of the thin people who has to work hard to maintain my weight. I count my calories every day and rarely consume processed foods. My body likes to gain weight, so if I wasn’t disciplined with this, I’d easily be about 20 pounds heavier than I am. And I have been 20 pounds heavier, following the death of my father…when I was eating to mask very difficult emotions.

    I saw a nutritionist once who said that the correct weight is the weight at which we feel the most comfortable. Do you really feel comfortable walking around with 280 pounds on your skeletal frame? I’d imagine that it isn’t very comfortable, and when I was just 20 pounds overweight, I remember feeling more pressure on my knees and generally uncomfortable in my skin. Anyway, this nutritionist said that she uses the idea of The Hunter Weight. What this means is…if you were a hunter and had to move quickly and efficiently around the terrain, what weight would you need to be? You cannot move quickly or efficiently with several pounds of excess weight. Neither can you move quickly and efficiently if you starve yourself and do not get the proper caloric intake. I like this idea. It has nothing to do with cultural standards, fed largely by Hollywood. Most of us here can agree that the Hollywood standards are bunk and need to be dismissed. This is about health and what’s best for the individual and the planet.

    Also, if you see a skinny person eating a burger or pizza or something like that, it may be the only thing they’ve eaten all day. If I overindulge, it gets added to my calorie count, along with everything else, and I compensate by not eating as much later in the day (or the next day). Nutritionists will often recommend that people on a restricted diet have a “cheat day”, where they can indulge in fattening foods and/or go over their calorie limit. I do this as well, as do many others I know on a similar eating plan.

    Here’s a really helpful resource. It’s how to find the right weight for your height: http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/pub&hellip;

    This isn’t rocket science.

    Here’s an article called “Carbon emissions fuelled by high rates of obesity”: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/20&hellip;

  885. First, I congratulate you Lindy for overcoming stigma and insecurities and to come out ‘fat an proud.’ Second, thank you so much for the education – I especially like the “Thin Privilege Checklist.” It will be an important component in something I hope to put together about privilege and racism, sexism, homophobia, ageism, able-bodiedism and now physical appearance and size-ism.

    But I have to say that what you cite as being Dan’s fat-sins do (mostly) appear to be tepid. Maybe I should accept that you actually work for him and much more of Dan’s fat-ism comes through in person.

    Regardless, best of luck in this endeavor. Sadly, more voices on this topic are needed.

  886. @ 888, not a peep from Mr. Savage as of yet. I expect him to do his own post (why respond in the comments when you can keep your name in the “most commented” section?) on Monday, and I expect it won’t be anything that he couldn’t have said earlier, weekend or no.

  887. And instead of calling each other “haters” and “stupid” etc. etc…can we please just dialogue maturely? Is that so hard to ask? I’m talking to those on both sides of the argument.

  888. @ 890, those of us who have read Savage a long time know that there are many, many more examples than what Lindy provided (as she said, she didn’t have time to find them all, but I’ll corroborate that they’re out there – and in at least one of his books, too). Rest assured, I’ll take a fat person’s word about how she feels when she hears them over a fit person’s take.

  890. I have a query which hits upon something I’ve never understood about the fat “haters.”

    Why is it when fatties get so fed up with all the shaming that they proclaim “OK, I’m going to get SURGERY to get rid of all this fat!” The common response is outrage because “THAT’S CHEATING!”

    That response is counter intuitive and on the surface seems hypocritical. Please enlighten me.

  891. No fucking way am I going to read all of these comments! What I want to know is if Dan chimed in at all on this?
    And I have to agree with all the other commenters who said you look good in that photo!
    If you feel good, roll with it!

  893. Thanks, Lindy! Like patriarchy, fat phobia hurts everyone. I’ve always been skinny but have been literally terrified of gaining weight since middle school due in large part to attitudes like Dan’s–and I am not in any way a “silly, suggestible” person, whatever the fuck that means. I’m a lot healthier now than I have been in a while but still have a lot of internalized body hatred and anxiety that I’m continuing to work on, and reading pieces like yours is enormously helpful in my struggle to overcome my fat prejudice. Thank you for your courage in writing this. You’re a fucking inspiration.

  897. @893: Matt, you wrote: “Rest assured, I’ll take a fat person’s word about how she feels when she hears them over a fit person’s take. “

    My problem with this is that there are many here in the US who sit in a ‘ready-state’ to be disrespected about whatever. I think it is part of our culture of victimhood. So while I will take it at face value that Dan was a jerk about this, I think it is important to attempt to objectively evaluate what is being said.

    I could easily say that you are homophobic because of the way you responded to me on this thread, but it wouldn’t be true.

    Last year, I was riding with my husband on his motorbike in Barcelona. He was driving and at every red-light, he would stop and then turn to face me to chat. I told him to pay attention because the signal was going to change. His response was that I shouldn’t worry – someone would honk and let him know that the signal had changed. And that is their approach because they don’t live in the ready-state like we do.

  898. Back for a bump +2, and to say that Lindy, your post has been a revelation to me. As a former fat person who struggles constantly with weight and food, I wish I had your gumption, sass and self-love.

  899. It seems fat people comprise the last remaining “group” of whom it is socially acceptable to make fun. It’s much harder to get away with subjecting queers or people of color to the same kind/level of ridicule visited upon “fatties” in “Shallow Hal” or Eddie Murphy’s “Nutty Professor.”

  900. Thank you for saying this. So many people, good people like you and me, need to hear this at least once in their lives.

    Thank you especially for mentioning people having guilt over the diabetes they don’t even have. You are right – shame on top of shame does not “motivate” or “encourage” people. It takes away their hope and their self-esteem. And when you truly feel you are not worth anything, then you cannot even decide how to live your life. Trying to conform to a societal ideal of “correct living” is not how people get healthy or stay healthy. And I said healthy, not thin. Health is a state of body and mind, and only when we are healthy can we take control of our lives.

    Thank you also for your analogy of health insurance premiums and taxes for schools. I will keep that in mind whenever I need to remind myself that I am no the sole cause of problems in the health insurance world, and the number on my scale does not affect the premiums of everyone I see.

  901. You have every right to be complacent with being fat. Yes it is your body and nobody should subject you to torment because of it. If you genuinely are happy then that’s great. The thing that boggles the mind is that you apparently have a large cheering section in complete denial about the health risks. You will die early and your ‘friends’ from the comfort of their PC points of view will be clapping at your funeral. I can hear them now “She died so young, but at least she was happy.” Bullshit! Everyone goes through some degree of crisis of identity and that has nothing to do with being fat. Accepting yourself and accepting that you are too lazy are very different things and by your own words you fall in to the latter category. Your words of strength are supported by cries of victimhood.

    Do whatever you want. I really don’t care. But please try not to promote the idea that denial will make everything ok. In 10 years your “you go girl” cheering section will be quiet. It will be replaced by notes of false empathy as you descend back in to victimhood, this time of diabetes. You will be another in the long line of statistics of people who knew better but chose not to do anything about it.

    I would think that if you really were happy you would do what it takes to make your ride in this life as long as possible.

  902. It must really suck to be skinny if your body doesn’t naturally look that way. That at least would explain why all the “haters” in this thread are so PISSED OFF at people who don’t/haven’t suffered how they have suffered. Maybe when they see a fat person, they imagine all the delicious meals they’ve skipped. Because they are themselves so fixated on food, when they see a fat person, they can’t help but fantasize about that piece of chocolate cake they passed up on last Thursday. That piece of cake they have been thinking about ever since. If a fat person is happy or proud or if anyone claims that it is possible to be happy and proud AND fat, all at the same time, then all those sacrifices weren’t worth it, so skinny assholes* have to put those fatties in their place and make their lives unlivable.

    Because, yes, most fat people could lose the weight if they were willing to torture themselves, to greater or lesser degrees, for the rest of their lives (as medical research has shown, the brain of an obese person who loses a large amount of weight will respond to a normal 2000 calorie diet as though he or she is starving. This means a constant and dramatic physiological/neurological SENSATION OF HUNGER [i.e. hunger pain]), but some people aren’t willing to live that life of pain for the aesthetic approval of others or the POTENTIAL medical benefits. Because that is what they are POTENTIAL.

    So yeah. Maybe the skinny people who are so pissed are just resentful of all the unreasonable sacrifices they’ve made to fit into society’s idea of beauty (5AM trips to the gym would definitely make me a cranky jerk). Because health is a really good excuse for what is essentially capitulation to a narrow conception of beauty, because let’s be honest, the beauty thing is the primary reason, not health. And what a price that shallow capitulation demands! I lived with a 52 year old fitness instructor who wouldn’t eat fruit because the sugar in it kept her up at night. Seriously? I wouldn’t live in that brain if you paid me.

    Be skinny or be fat, but interrogate why you’re so upset about it. Because when things like that don’t add up emotionally, then something else is at work, something that is being projected out and onto people who have nothing to do with your crazy brainz.

    *defined as skinny people who are dickish, not skinny people generally.

  904. I wasn’t going to chime in again BUT:

    There have been a handful of excellent posts in this very long thread and I have read or scanned every single one (truth). One of the better posts you will see is not too far back @865 from hydrozoa. Definitely worth the time to read the whole thing – rings very very true.

    Nice to see new names each time.

    Dan will write an article about this – will probably end up as a cover story. He can smell blood on the water, and is a good businessman…..

  906. You are not simply “fat,” but obese.

    Nothing about YOUR body is healthy in an ideal society.

    ~ Hello, You’re Obese And Delusional

  907. Thanks Lindy.

    I have been bothered by this issue at The Slog/Stranger for some time.

    I appreciate that you were willing to stand up and speak out. I hope that it does indeed “Get Better”.

  911. (full disclosure: I am not fat, but I am a short straight male, which, in our society sucks, but just in a minor way)

    I haven’t commented on slog for maybe 2 years, but I’m commenting here to say how much I love this post (and, okay, to push it towards 1000).

    I feel inspired when I see someone do / say something truly radical; In a very personal and brave way, Lindy has really called bullshit on the way Dan and our culture take for granted the idea that it is okay to judge people based on their appearance.

    It has been said before, but I think it is worth saying again: All of you people who are giving Lindy advice or telling her how happy she will be are TOTALLY MISSING THE POINT. This has nothing to do with whether she could or should lose weight. You have a right to your opinion, but unless you are asked for advice, SHUT THE FUCK UP. Obviously, you have a constitutional right to NOT shut the fuck up, but that doesn’t mean you are not fat-bigot, and it doesn’t mean no one is going to call you on it. I get the feeling a lot of the anti-Lindy posters consider themselves liberal, non-racist, non-homophobic, etc., but somehow manage to convince themselves that this is a special case of discrimination – it is somehow deserved, or for their own good.

    We need to look at our underlying assumptions and ask why why we feel it is okay to judge people based on body shape alone.

    If you still feel like telling Lindy to lose weight, you really need to go back and re-read the post. Her best and most powerful point in #4, and I quote: “But most importantly: I reject this entire framework. I don’t give a shit what causes anyone’s fatness. It’s irrelevant and it’s none of my business. I am not making excuses, because I have nothing to excuse. I reject the notion that thinness is the goal, that thin = better—that I am an unfinished thing and that my life can really start when I lose weight.”

    If this boggles your mind, it’s probably because your worldview is having trouble processing it. This means you can either try to figure it out, or go on justifying why it is okay to judge people’s worth based on weight, and treat them like little children who have gone astray.

  912. Bottom line: white men need to check their privilege, whatever their sexual orientation. Like Lindy, I am SO BORED by conversations about what makes people fat, how people lose weight, etc etc. She is absolutely right that the number one way to have a healthy body is to have a healthy mind. AND being healthy does not look the same for each person…why is THAT so difficult for people to understand?? And why do “thin” people have no possible way of empathizing with the experience of those who are “not thin”? I used to be a fat kid and still, STILL can feel sad about the teasing I experienced many years ago. It’s hard to let go of that completely in a society where “healthy” is never enough (because uber skinny, btw, is usually not healthy!)

    Lastly, about shame: shame is easy to be forced into feeling no matter what your size is. I’ve felt shame about the smallest weight gain, about missing a week at the gym, about finishing the entire bag of Kettle chips…yadda yadda. Shame does not motivate me to get back to the gym or to choose broccoli instead of chips. It is joy and confidence that motivate me to find the ways that i like to be healthy and stick with them. Lifting weights? Yes. Eating chocolate everyday? Fuck yes. Thank you for this Lindy.

  914. @907 Overeating is an addiction. It causes chemical changes in the brain that keeps the person coming back for more.

    Would you agree that smoking is bad for your health? What if this article had been written by a smoker, asking for more empathy in their predicament of being a smoker? Some people think black lungs and smoker’s breath are disgusting, but should we tell those people to shut the fuck up and be more accepting? A person could conceivably justify any behaviour to keep themselves from facing reality and changing/growing/moving on.

    Too much of ANYTHING is not good.

  915. Have you ever noticed that the people who winge on about how this or that will help them lose or gain weight always do it during lunch time? I can’t tell you how many times I’ve excused myself from what would otherwise be a sociable lunchtime at work or school because people can’t keep talking about it. And, like Lindy, I AM BORED TO TEARS WITH THAT CONVERSATION.

  917. To everyone talking about the “health risks” of being overweight: STOP. Why don’t you try inserting some other aspect of identity in the place of fat? So “why is it dangerous to be fat” becomes “why is it dangerous to be a woman?” It’s hazardous to your health to be a woman because women can get breast/cervical cancer, they are typically the receivers of domestic abuse and sexual violence, women don’t make as much money as men doing the same jobs, women could die in childbirth…So with all these health risks, should I just try really hard for the rest of my life to not be a woman? Next try sticking “black” or “trans” or “disabled” or “felon” in the place of fat and go from there. You will see that the violence, the health risks, the immense challenge of “getting healthy” and the shame originate or are exacerbated by the hatred of fat people.

    The health risks of being obese are obvious. They are not shocking news, not new news, and this information is everywhere. A major point of Lindy’s article your missing is the anti-fat society we live in, the hatred and the violence that forces people to live in shame no matter how “fat” or “overweight” they actually are IS THE PROBLEM. If you can understand medical science so well to explain why it’s dangerous to be overweight, why can’t you also understand basic psychology and also, the power of empathy?

  918. it’s all been said but i wanted to add to the count, to do my part to keep this on the top of the list for all to see! excellent work, lindy 🙂 xo

  921. @922 You are saying that those of us talking about the health risks are anti-fat, and you’re saying we have no empathy. I have no judgement against individuals who are fat. I know and am friends with quite a few overweight people, and it has never come up as an issue. I’ve never judged them for their weight. If they were to bring it up, I’d talk about health issues, but I would never ever try to shame them or make them feel bad.

    Empathy does not mean allowing a person to blindly continue to hurt themselves. Empathy is NOT delusional acceptance of “anything goes”.

  922. @ 919 As I have said a gajillion times, it is so much more complicated than you seem to believe it is. Since when is anything that has to do with the relationship between the human body and the human mind simple? Seriously. Just stop for a second and interrogate the arrogance of assuming you understand it all.

    Maybe some information will help:

    “Why are thin people not fat?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMrtTxwzn&hellip;

    Watch the first 1 minute of this clip of documentary from the BBC. Honestly, you and everyone else posting on the thread should watch the WHOLE thing if you really want to have a responsible and reasonable conversation about obesity. The first segment is at:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6-A0iHSd&hellip;

  924. Hey there, Canadian Nurse!

    So, has anything like this ever happened before on Slog or at The Stranger? Is this partly ramped up and dramatized for our benefit, or is there truly a civil war underway?

    Echoing an earlier commenter, it makes me wonder about how much tension is rolling around that office…

  925. @865: Hydroza, your post is so disgustingly full of win I can’t even stand it! 😀 <3 to you. You are gorgeous, inside AND out, just the way you are. I hope you find peace.

    I hope we *all* do.

  926. This post and the associated comments have provided so much food for thought, and prompted me to confront my own fucked up body image and judgment of others’ bodies once and for all. I am so grateful.

  928. For anyone to say “Hey guys, her body is none of your business!” I disagree.

    This very personal statement regarding her body, and body image has been posted on more than one website. She has (bravely) put herself out there, and for people to insist that no one share their opinion negates the point of commenting or even posting the piece.

    Any open discussion about our bodies or self-image is personal and will get heated. I personally made a couple statements that, after reflection, regret and sincerely apologize for if anyone was insulted. I, like many, am a work in progress and need to turn up my empathy at times and try harder to see others point of view.

    Here’s hoping for 1k and that Lindy’s honest negative opinion about her boss’s views will not effect her position at The Stranger. Remember Dan: “Variety is the spice of life.”

    Also: Anyone else notice that Mudede has yet to chime in while most of the (more vocal) staff did?

  929. Agreed, @865 was perfect.

    I think it’s more of my business whether people have kids or drive to work than whether they’re fat. Which is to say, not at all.

    If you don’t want to date a fat girl, then don’t. If you don’t want to be fat, then do your best to lose it, but for christ’s sake, don’t preach and moralize and say what’s healthy and what people should do. you know what would really be healthy and good for the planet? If your mama had aborted you and there would be one less person on this overcrowded earth.

  930. @927 I am familiar with those videos. If what they said was true, though, why is obesity on the rise, and why only in certain countries?

  932. @933. Lindy isn’t saying her body is none of your business in relation to this post. I mean obviously it is, she put herself out there in this instance to make a point and that’s what we’re talking about here.

    However, she is making the point that her body (or anyone else’s body) is none of your business IN GENERAL. If you see her or another heavy person on the street, it’s none of your business, keep your judgement and comments to yourself thank you very much.

  933. 865, I like and relate to what you say, though as my comment complimenting Lindy preceded yours and you had scolded the notion of paying her a compliment, all I was doing was doing just that, paying her a compliment. Her shoes are indeed nice. And I am a straight woman with appreciation for shoes. Sorry.

    If someone tells me that they like my outfit or like the color of my eyes, I appreciate that. And, for many clear reasons, I’ve rarely ever taken such words as a cue that the person wants to fuck me.

    If you go back through these near-1,000 comments, I’ve offered a few other points of view that have nothing to do with objectifying Ms. Lindy.

    And up to this point, at least I’ve aimed for brevity.

  934. @933: Yes, I want Charles to chime in with a Marxian (or perhaps Foucauldian) analysis of capitalism’s preoccupation with the body as a locus of consumption, discipline and control…

  935. @937 Point taken. I personally wouldn’t comment to a stranger on the street in a negative manor overweight or not, that’s just not my style. If I see a pair of cute shoes, you will probably her me say “Hey! Rockin’ shoes!”

    My point was that through these almost 1000 comments(!) many people have stated something to the tune of: this is none of your business to have an opinion on which I believe to be false. We will never see progress towards the oppression or frequent offending of fat people unless there is a dialog- no matter how touchy the subject is.

    The open sharing and expression of ideas and opinions, however controversial or divergent, is the cornerstone of all free societies.

  937. Oh, and I agree, Lindy’s brain is such a unique beauty to behold that I don’t give a shit what body it’s mounted in. I’d take it in a heartbeat.

  938. @916 if you read more carefully you would see it is people like you who boggle the mind. The negative effects of obesity on a persons physical and mental health should be unquestioned as this is very well documented. You are another flag waver supporting an unhealthy lifestyle. Do you congratulate and support the ongoing lifestyle of alcoholics and anorexics? Do you support a persons own self destruction so long as they no longer give a shit?

    As far as Lindy is concerned, I don’t care. It’s her mind and her body. For me weight is not a measure of a persons character but words are. Your words and hers are indicative of a very sick population that seems to want to think everything is ok.

    Have some more Doritos ▲▲▲▲ they’re good for you nomnomnom

  939. Fat, thin, fat, thin, big boobs, small boobs, real women have curves, real women look like little boys. Big deal. This conversation is going to happen until women are applauded for something other than their physical appearance.

  941. Never before has s a Slog post kept my interest for an entire weekend. And I, too, would like to add my praise for comment 865. An honest examination of complex emotions is rare on Slog and 865 is a rare, brave treat. As is Lindy’s original post.

  942. Got to add a bump to Slog history…a lot of pain in these posts. I’m another woman who has always struggled with unwanted extra weight, and I agree that a pile on of shame is a cruel tactic and likely to prompt the opposite of the desired effect, but I have not ever felt personally shamed by Dan’s posts. I generally agree with his general statements. I think your post is acurate, but to target Dan as you have, is unfair. I don’t recall him ever mentioning the people he works with specifically, as you have just done.

  944. @938: wow, you really have a point there. at least you aimed for brevity in your frivolous compliment. you talking about somebody’s shoes and me talking about widespread cruelty against human beings should use the same amount of words.

    once again, as i said earlier: you and the other well-wishers are very sweet and everything for complimenting her. compliments are nice! i personally enjoy them. i’m just saying that they contradict lindy’s point.

    i also wasn’t really talking about your comment at all (nor did i see it); i was referring to the people who were telling her that she’s beautiful despite her fat.

    everyone else: thanks for the props. i love compliments.

  945. hydroz: please attach a picture so we can compliment you on your looks instead!! This whole content of your character thing is very distressing. thx.

  949. I can’t remember any post on Slog that has generated this much interest. I was thinking one of the Chris Crocker posts (when we got “hit with the Myspace truck” as Eli put it), but for all the sound and fury that didn’t even make to 200 comments.

    There may have been some political ones before/after the ’08 elections that generated tons of heat, but I’m sure this is the most commented on of all (Slog) time. And nice to see that the vast majority of it isn’t even from the standard Slog gang.

    Even though he’s gone into total radio silence since early Friday, there’s no way Dan cannot do a response of his own, otherwise every comment thread for his posts is gonna have people asking where his response to Lindy is.

  950. Lindy, you’re awesome. Dan, you’re lucky to have someone as awesome as Lindy around. And as a fat person who regularly reads your column – yeah, Lindy’s right. Totally right. And awesome. So, in a nutshell: fuck you, Dan. I don’t like it when you project your own twisted body-image hangups onto other people, and I never have.

  951. The moral superiority I’m detecting in the comments of people like littlesparrow is grating.

    It’s not like most of us aren’t doing something that’s bad for our health. People like me, who sit all day in front of a computer screen, are doing something really bad; we’re not getting proper exercise. Scientific studies have even shown that people who sit at a desk all day are significantly shortening their lives. Yet unhealthy desk jockeys are given a pass, while fat people are singled out for shame, concern, or bullying, even if they happen to be healthier than a skinnier person. Fuck that. And fuck the arrogant people who do it.

  952. @954 I’m certain we’ll hear something from Dan. What remains to be seen is if all the back and forth commentary here has swayed him to actually do a bit of reflection and discover that he is indeed a bit callous and yes, BULLYING to the overweight of the world. He’s a smart guy, and even though I’ve never met him, I assume an intelligent and sensitive one too, so I have hope. Then again, I wouldn’t be surprised really if he comes out swinging.

    Whatever; time will tell. It gets better, right?

  953. A further thought re Dan (and message to him if he actually reads these comments).

    Even if he doesn’t get Lindy’s post or think much of the hundreds of comments saying “right on” in response, I hope he is appalled and chagrined at both the vitriol and profound medical and epidemiological ignorance of the overwhelming majority of folks posting that she’s an ugly stupid fatty.

    I hope it gives him pause next time he wants to post on this issue. This is the group you’re throwing bones to Dan. You really want to be on their side?!

  955. @lindy – that was perfection. your transparency here is truly a gift to so many.

    @865 – that was, also, PER-FEC-TION. hit the nail on the head. said everything i was thinking and said it beautifully.

    @dan – speak up, please. and loudly. so that we can all hear. so we can all understand why your plight is any different from anyone else that has ever been bullied, hated, picked on for any reason at all. tell us. inform us. speak your truth as only you can speak it. we are motherfucking waiting.

  956. you know, the great irony here is that for all the fat-bashing that goes on in the world, gay people still are discriminated against much more than fat people.
    fat people can get married, fat people aren’t excluded from churches, fat people can adopt children any way they want etc etc. fat people are not hanged in autocratic or religiously fanatic countries for just bein’ themselves. and fat people aren’t assumed to be child molesters and perverts.
    so, lindy still wins.

  957. I registered with SLOG just to comment here.

    Thanks for spreading the message that body size is a) not necessarily an indicator of a person’s health and b) not anyone else’s business. In my opinion, if I find someone’s appearance unpleasant, it’s not that person’s problem, and I certainly would never comment on it *to them*
    for heaven’s sake!

    Let’s treat each other with respect, kindness and good will. How ’bout that??

  959. it just blows my mind how many weight loss tips are in this thread. really??! and @lindy, duh you are amazing. i believe you may have even gotten slightly tired of hearing it by now. but one more!

  960. Health is composed of so many factors that it makes no sense to focus on one (weight) just because it happens to be visible. @956 mentions the too-much-screentime issue, but there’s so many others: how many of us are defeated, isolated, addicted to weird stuff or the wrong kind of partners, stressed out by bad jobs, prone to unbearable self righteousness?

    And, you can draw statistical conclusions about populations, but that doesn’t translate into knowledge of single individuals. Personal fate still holds a bit of mystery. A friend of ours just died at age 88 after chain smoking all her life without a smidgeon of lung trouble until her final 6 weeks. What can you say?

    And speaking of self-righteousness, @874, I live off the grid and consume less electricity in a day than you use to make your toast in the morning, and your little screed on sustainability made me want to drive to Seattle in an SUV and go from one Dick’s hamburger joint to the next, filling up the back seat with french fry wrappers and plastic soda bottles.

  962. @925 I, too, as a person with a registered username on Slog, feel obligated to comment on this post. Even though I have no sympathy for fat people.

    Thin all my life due to my dad’s healthy cooking when I was a kid and because a public health person from the state came to my 5th grade class in 1981 and did a presentation, with evidence and arguments, on why sugar was bad for you, which I found convincing so thereafter refused to eat sugar. People thought I was a weird kid. But I’ve never even had a tooth cavity.

    Now I eat like a pig (in my perception; others say I eat like a bird) and stay thin. Sometimes I forget to eat and just starve for awhile, uncomfortable but no big deal. Starvation is a very common experience for animals actually, our bodies have evolved lots of physiological mechanisms to cope with it. Probably good exercise for the cells to just starve every once in awhile.

    I do not find fat women attractive, ever. I don’t go out with women who worry about their weight/what they eat because it’s so wearing and stressful, me having to think about what I eat because it might be making her feel bad because she feels like she can’t eat it.

    The quantities of corn syrup and -oil filled processed food that Americans eat, and the environmental damage caused in its production, bother me. Spending public money on expensive health care instead of infrastructure, education, research etc concerns me.

    I live in Japan now, and every time Americans come on the TV, my reaction is “Wow, they are _fat_! And their houses are huge, and stuffed with junk.” The Japanese are not fat. They eat rice, fish, soybeans and seaweed. They ride trains everywhere rather than driving, which means they get exercise walking to and from the train stations.

    Fat America just seems like one aspect of overindulged, consumerist, addicted, corporate lobbyist-infested, right-wing-politics afflicted America (farm bill subsidies for corn production, etc).

    Get a grip, people.

  963. You guys realize that for Lindy to maintain the weight that she is with ZERO exercise she has to consume around 4,000 calories A DAY? That’s around 6 BIG MACS A DAY.

    “You have no idea what I eat, how much I exercise, what my blood pressure is, or whether or not I’m going to get diabetes.”

    Crap.
    None.
    High.
    God, I hope so.

  964. You guys realize that for Lindy to maintain the weight that she is with ZERO exercise she has to consume around 4,000 calories A DAY? That’s around 6 BIG MACS A DAY.

    “You have no idea what I eat, how much I exercise, what my blood pressure is, or whether or not I’m going to get diabetes.”

    Crap.
    None.
    High.
    God, I hope so.

  965. I threw out my scale long ago. I don’t even know what I weigh, and I don’t care. I know I am beautiful RIGHT NOW.

    As for other’s opinions, I must say; I will always be baffled by the amount of people who think their opinion of how I look is somehow any of my damn business.

  968. @969

    What I find interesting is that we’re still using universalities and generic formulas to say “she HAS to be eating 4000 calories a day and getting no exercise!” Which entirely misses the point of how you know absolutely nothing about her life and more importantly about how her body works.

    If you looked at me I’m sure that’s exactly what you would assume. I can tell you that’s exactly what a few of my (short lived) doctors have assumed. Only to shock them with my incredibly low blood pressure and cholesterol. Also I take several medications that have weight gain as a side affect. And while yes, my personal situation is more unique than most, I tell you it because you CANNOT know simply by looking at a person or reading a few basic facts about them what sort of lifestyle they live. And if you think medication that makes you gain or retain weight is unusual, look up a few common birth controls, a prescription that is fairly common for a wide variety of reasons.

    So to come into a post like this and assume she is unhealthy is the height of arrogance. And frankly the only information I’ve seen on the long term health affect of being ‘fat’ is a POSSIBLY increase in risks, or the use of the word ‘may’ all over the studies. A person MAY find an increased risk of X, Y or Z. Well a person might also find an increased risk of cancer if they go to the beach every day of summer for 30 years. Or a person MAY find an increased risk of liver problems if they drink moderately heavy on a regular basis for 30 years. And yet I don’t find people making huge assumptions about those people’s lives and saying they are definitely, no questions asked, going to get a debilitating disease sometime in the future.

  969. You look fabulous. And just like fat does not necessarily equal unhealthy (I am overweight and have excellent blood pressure, cholesterol, pulse rate, flexibility, energy, etc. etc.) skinny does NOT necessarily equal healthy. I would rather be my size than have anxiety over every calorie I ingest. People forget that the push to be skinny can create many health problems as well; including but not limited to eating disorders like anorexia and bulimia, which have numerous side effects including DEATH. We aren’t all meant to be size 2’s (or size 10’s for that matter). Great article.

  970. 1. …”it is an incredibly cruel, subjective opinion that reinforces destructive, paternalistic, oppressive beauty ideals” – whether you like it or not most people in the the developed world find thinness to be more attractive; besides it’s the women who reinforce those ideals and not men.
    2. There are only limited number of reasons someone gets overweight and you’re discounting all the scientific studies about health and obesity ?
    3. Not sure what you’re getting at – precisely we live in a society that affects each other and everyone’s health insurance goes up when we have more unhealthy people (whether they’re overweight or not).
    4. “I don’t give a shit what causes anyone’s fatness” – you should be. What if it’s the hormones they put in the meat? The excess sugar/starch/fat in kids’ diet? The chemicals or advertisements that make people addicted to certain foods? the list goes on and on.. I’m sure you’ll be up in arm if certain food are found to cause cancer.

  972. For all you guys hoping for the 1000 mark, what if we deleted all the comments with dieting tips and testimonials as being COMPLETELY OFF THE FUCKING TOPIC.

  974. The other end of the spectrum:

    You know what you get if you have been thin all your life? Accusations of anorexia. Being told you don’t eat enough, because of course other people know better. My point is that it’s bullshit all around. Do I have friends I think would be healthier thinner? Yes. Do I SAY this to them like I know better, like I have any idea what they deal with ? No, I’m too busy paying attention to the reason we’re friends in the first place and dress size isn’t on that list. I very much second pissy mcslogbot’s comment:
    “Shame is a tool of oppression, not change.”

    hell to the fuck yeah!!!!

    And as far as being attractive goes, I think you’ve got it now. The ridiculous amount of pressure to look a certain way has long ago superseded the things that really matter. And your “appropriate weight” isn’t going to match an airbrushed magazine ad. Ever. You’ll look better, because you’re real.

  975. I hope this he said-she said argument doesn’t become a regular staple of Slog, ‘cuz it’ll get really old, really fast.

    It’s a stupid debate. Both Dan and Lindy are right, and both are wrong.

    We’re a nation of obese people, and that is not normal or healthy; but shaming individuals or describing their bodies as revolting is in fact subjective and destructive.

  977. Dan’s response: super classy, no comments allowed. Now, nobody make fun of the fatasses. It’s perfectly within their rights to make decisions I openly disapprove of and scorn, but nobody make fun of them or poke them with sticks.

    In case it’s in any way unclear, I’m on Team Lindy on this one.

  978. http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2&hellip;

    http://kateharding.net/2007/12/06/everyo&hellip;

    http://red3.blogspot.com/2007/07/dan-sav&hellip;

    http://bitchkittie.blogspot.com/2007/06/&hellip;
    (written by someone who worked for dan and thinks he’s an ass)

    http://www.bigfatblog.com/whats-so-speci&hellip;

    http://kateharding.net/2007/07/09/all-ri&hellip;

    http://www.straight.com/article/free-to-&hellip;

    http://the-f-word.org/blog/index.php/200&hellip;

    http://the-f-word.org/blog/index.php/200&hellip;

    http://jezebel.com/#!5742865/the-problem&hellip;

    http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums&hellip;

    http://fatistician.wordpress.com/2008/07&hellip;

    http://www.womanist-musings.com/2010/05/&hellip;

  979. I would never enter into a romantic relationship with a person who overeats, just as I would never enter into a romantic relationship with a person who undereats, smokes, does drugs, drinks a lot, works too much, or in any other way treats their body like shit. I have too much respect for myself to do any of these things to my body, so I wouldn’t want someone I love to be doing these things to there’s.

    Obesity is disgusting, appalling, and gross. Because it’s unhealthy and because there are so many people out there forming complex justifications for it. It’s delusional.

  980. All the best to you, Lindy. Keep fighting the good fight. Fat people like my wife and me can use all the help we can get to love ourselves while having healthy lifestyles. I love Dan, but I love Lindy more.

  982. @977 A while ago, a youngish person made a comment on another thread about how his parents wouldn’t like the fact that he was gay, so he didn’t plan to tell them. This prompted me, and others, to chime in with support for this kid, as well as unsolicited advice. He blew a gasket, basically didn’t want us busybodies telling him what to do. And that’s just the thing: When you post a problem on a public blog, people make the–perhaps–erroneous assumption that you are looking for advice. I get that Lindy’s post was pretty much a “Fuck you, leave me alone, don’t tell me what’s beautiful” post in response to what she saw as Dan’s bullying, but there was more to it than that. There was a lot of pain in what she revealed as well. People respond to that, they reach out and say, “Hey! That was me, and this is what I did and I felt better.” For all of our talk about “freedom” and “each man for himself,” I think we are hard-wired as a species to care about each other, and care about the well-being of the group, and this prompts people to want to help each other. Although people may not like the terms in which it has been said, there are a bunch of people on this thread who are trying to help, even though it is not what the post is about. I get that all Lindy’s original post requires is a “You go, girl!” with no further discussion. But what if there is more to the discussion?

    Dan is snarky. He doesn’t sugar-coat anything. He doesn’t respond to fawning or flattery. He tells people what he thinks with brutal honesty, and most of the time, we love him for it. When he’s calling out the Fundamentalist Christians, we say “Yeah!” When he’s railing against people, and gay men in particular, who don’t use condoms, we say, “Yeah!” But when he talks about obesity, and suggests that our current high carb, drive everywhere society may be contributing to the problem, all of a sudden he’s an asshole who doesn’t get it. Slog reviews cheeseburgers, poutine, and showcases the yummiest looking cupcakes…and Dan Savage is an asshole who dares to tell people that maybe, just maybe, their eating habits have something to do with their waistlines.

  984. #982 called it – dan’s response – NO COMMENTS ALLOWED. wouldn’t call it super classy however. he’ll never get it. it’s too bad, really, too because all he’s doing is hurting himself because i know i no longer give a shit what he says because he has no credibility. he only cares about the gay cause. he’s one trick pony and instead of listening to what people have to say he’s just going to insist he is right. he’s just as narrow minded and tunnel visioned as the homophobes he rails against.

  985. I don’t think I can even call Dan’s “response” a response. He talks about one person and doesn’t address the very good points Lindy brings up here. And no comments? Fucking lame.

  988. Wow. What a complete cop-out non-response from Dan Savage. Is anyone surprised? That guy can dish it out like whoa, but cannot take it at all. I wonder if Lindy’s next missive to him will be her two weeks’ notice… I sort of hope so. She’s too good for this rag.

  989. Thanks Urgutha Forka, I would have completely missed hydrozoa @865, since I’m only spot-checking now.

    “excuse me, i don’t know you, but i’m looking at you and i don’t have a boner right now–you need to do something about that.”

    Funniest thing I’ve read in a long time!

  994. Oh well, at least a bunch of us had a (hopefully) constructive conversation. Though remind me when I get closer to my first goal weight to not sound as bitter & self-righteous as some (not all) of the “I used to be fat” people.

  998. I don’t believe in shaming of any kind, and I truly think it’s great that Lindy and other people on this board love their bodies. But you could insert “smoker” or “alcoholic” or any other addiction here in place of “fat.” And there are plenty of people who will also argue that it is their right to smoke or drink, and they are perfectly happy being a smoker, or an alcoholic or whatever. Fine. But I still think it’s unrealistic to get defensive when other people think that kind of overindulgence is unhealthy.

    So Dan is not missing the point; he’s just pointing out the obvious.

  1005. @987 Yes, people think they are helping. My point was that their “help” is so incredibly off topic that their comments should be deleted. I get that people (men especially) go straight to “fixing” the problem when someone else expresses hurt. We really need to learn to hold back the “fix” and just listen. Be supportive. I will ask for your suggestions if I want them. If I tell you my rape survival story don’t explain to me at length about how to balance my checkbook. You are not helping no matter how relevant financial responsibility is to a good life.

    When a comment to a post demonstrates a total lack of comprehension then it is not worthy of being retained. The comment “no fat chicks” is more on topic than any anecdote of dieting success/failure. I disagree with the comment “no fat chicks” and find it appalling that someone reached the point in their life that they would post that. But it’s honestly on Lindy’s topic.

    Lindy knows she’s fat (see title of post). Lindy has heard of dieting and exercise before (she hasn’t lived her life under a rock). (not referring to you here Canuck): Go back, re-read the post, and search your soul for some shred of decency. Fat people are not “fair game.”

  1006. @975 re: your point 1. Are you fucking kidding me?! The fact that you believe only one gender perpetuates body image stereotypes discounts anything else you have to say on the subject of weight.

  1009. Lindy, please, is this a pity column? Do you think ‘fit’ people do not share in the similar generic sense of shame that are referring to? seems like you are just having trouble dealing with basic steps in life, albeit difficult ones, but basic emotions of inclusion and acceptance. We all share shame. Fat people, fit people, little people and tall people. Wish you would have not written this selfish piece.

  1012. Maybe, the response that matters was expressed directly to Lindy? I don’t know. But, I’d like to hope that his previously stated affection and respect for Lindy means that they have spoken, her feelings have been addressed, and they have made peace.

  1013. Loved it! You made some brilliant points. Don’t mind the negative comments – there’s always gonna be people out there who just don’t get it! If more people speak out about this, they might catch on eventually!

  1016. Am I the only one who hears Maggie Gallagher’s voice when I read Dan’s “response”? It’s the typical “(insert group here) can do whatever they want and don’t deserve to be mocked or discriminated against or poked with sticks. But the rest of us don’t have to accept their lifestyle/behavior/choices.”

  1018. It’s a fine waste of time, gus. Personally, I would like a shower, blow dry, and make-up app, so that I wouldn’t have to waste time on hygiene and could, instead, keep refreshing this thread every 5 minutes…

  1020. Maybe, just maybe, Dan’s closing of comments on his response is meant to keep generating comments on this thread, thus to help ensure it remains the record holding thread for a long, long time. But it was a very weak response. VERY weak.

  1023. Goddamn it, Dan! This is America. We expect for you to debase yourself now, or didn’t you get the memo? You can always turn immediately around afterward, pull a David Vitter, and say it’s all forgiven because you’ve found the Lord and/or checked into alcohol rehab.

  1024. Good Lord. Lindy puts ’em on the table and calls her boss out, at no small risk to her job, creates an amazing dialogue on a complicated topic, and the only response he can come up with is basically ; “Oh well, I already answered this, so I don’t have to say anything new. Plus, no comments! *Runs off to hide in office with the door closed*”

    – A million respect points for Dan Savage.

    + Five billion respect points for Lindy.

  1027. I think all the anger and hostility on this blog towards Dan should really be directed at society and at people’s own feelings about themselves. Society shames you (that is the first wrong), you feel the shame (that is the second, and the only one you have control over). If there was no basis behind the millions of studies on obesity, than you could do your own studies that show just how healthy and wonderful the US is.

    I have a disease that I did not choose, and it makes it unpleasant to be around me sometimes. It also increases my risk of various cancers and other health risks IF I DON’T DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. I don’t always win that battle, but it is my battle to fight, not the people who think explosive diarrhea is gross, not the people who love me and want me to live the longest healthiest life possible. People should not assume things about you based on your appearance, but you should not give up just because it is hard. You will regret it down the road.

  1029. You’re fat. Big fucking deal. I’m glad you love yourself, that’s wonderful and a lot of people haven’t gotten to that point in their lives. However, being fat *IS* harmful to your health. There is *no* way around that. It is *not* healthy. Sure, being too skinny is also bad for your health but that doesn’t make being fat *healthy*. Do I think you should be shamed? Of course not. Do I think you should be taunted and harassed? No, there is no excuse for rudeness. Do I believe you should allowed to live in some sort of privileged wonderland where we can’t say things like “Being overweight it demonstrably unhealthy” because it might hurt your feelings? Hell no!

    As for the rolls of exposed flesh being unattractive thing? I personally don’t find them attractive but some people do. So Dan did screw up by presenting opinion as fact and he should be taken to task for that. He was speaking the truth when he said being fat is unhealthy. You may not like to hear that but it is the truth.

    Sure, there are always going to be those examples of fat people who are perfectly healthy and live a long and trouble free life. They tend to be the exception though and their exceptional existence doesn’t change the reality for the vast majority of fat people.

  1030. I think all the anger and hostility on this blog towards Dan should really be directed at society and at people’s own feelings about themselves. Society shames you (that is the first wrong), you feel the shame (that is the second, and the only one you have control over). If there was no basis behind the millions of studies on obesity, than you could do your own studies that show just how healthy and wonderful the US is.

    You can either accept that you are fat and leave it at that, OR you can accept you are fat and that means you will have to work that much harder than everyone else to be healthy. Just like a kid with dyslexia accepts that they are not stupid, they just have to work that much harder to prove they are not. Or a person with multiple sclerosis has to accept that they have a life-long disease and they will have to work that much harder to have the “normal” life everyone else takes for granted.

    And Dan probably didn’t allow comments because he doesn’t want to steal Lindy’s thunder. Slog record in the making!

  1031. Mitten @ 1003 I get the feeling you are a basically kind person. It’s your reading comprehension I have concerns about. Did you really read Lindy’s post or did you just want in on this big ole comment party? Maybe go read 865 and see if that helps you understand that the actual matter of fat or health are secondary to how ridiculously wrong it can be to assume from a passing glance anything important about another person and how monstrously wrongheaded it is to demand other people contort themselves to your sensitivities. I hope we can all work on are biases so we can be more kind to each other even when we don’t like what others do with their lives.

  1032. I have no problem with Lindy’s body. I’ve always thought bigger women were hot, and she is no exception. It’s her persona and awful writing that I find offensive.

  1034. I’m skimming the comment thread, and I’m not really impressed. For the record, I don’t HATE fat people, but as part of my growing maturity I recognize there are plenty of people that love and admire fat people, even though I’m not one of them. I have a few fat friends here and there, and I don’t care. They also happen to be dating more than I, and totally applaud them and support them. So long their is a mutual understanding that sex is not part of the friendship, everything is hunky dory.

    There is more to dating than just being attractive physically. There is chemistry, logistics, time, money, and comparable values and agenda. I would be more impressed if people focused on THAT than their weight.

    Do I feel that fat is less healthy, less attractive etc. etc. Well, yes, and I refuse to be shamed into feeling what I am and am not attracted to. That said, it’s not my place or my job to be shamed into loving someone who just doesn’t do it for me. And apparently, in many cases. I don’t have to, there are other people willing to pick up the slack that I apparently don’t have the “maturity” to accept.

    I actually like Lindy’s article. It is fun and witty, but I think she misses the point with respect to Dan. I’m not sure there is an answer that would be satisfying to so many of you besides a full on apology AND a night of sweet passionate love with Dan Savage. Is it not enough to say, you have the right to be whatever size you want to be. It is not enough to be accepted for who you are. It is not enough to be applauded for coming to terms with yourself and having a happy and fulfilling life?

    Or is it about sweet gay love with Dan Savage? Tell us, is this what you want to hear? Because I am not sure what the correct response is.

  1036. Douchelord, your are indeed a douche. And Andy, you’re an asshole, too. I am an “over”weight woman, and my husband finds me to be the most beautiful woman in the world. Guess what? I’m also “over”weight when I work out and watch every single calorie that goes into my mouth. So I don’t need other people doing it for me, too. Yes, being overweight can negatively affect your health. So can smoking. So can drinking. So can stress and working too much. But do we, as a culture, judge people the same way for these decisions? No. In fact, in the U.S., we applaud those who are willing to go the extra mile and put in a 50+ hour work week. And much of the images in our media glorify the “nightlife.” “Gotta little Captain in you?” F*ck that s*it. I’m tired of the hypocritical messages in our culture. And if I want a piece of chocolate cake, and decide to sit my ass down in front of the television and relax instead of busting my ass at the gym after spending my entire day educating our nation’s youth, I’m reaching for it with gusto. Sorry if you don’t like looking at my glorious curves, because I like them, and so does my husband. End of story. Deal with it.

  1038. Swinging by to say hi to Gus and Canuck and Kim and wish them a happy Valentine’s Day!
    @865 etc: Hydroza you rock!
    @966: Riz, you are, and always will be awesome.
    I must also add that I am disappointed in Dan for not allowing comments on his post this morning.

  1039. @ 1040 A potential correct response is:

    “Although I feel that being overweight is unhealthy, & that we as a nation have an obesity epidemic; & I reserve the right to find whoever I want to attractive, & that doesn’t include fat people, I recognize that overweight folks are people too, & deserve to be spoken to as respectfully as I would address any other group of human beings. Also, I don’t happen to know the cause of anyone else’s body shape, whether fat or not, so unless asked, I’m gonna keep my snap judgments to myself. ’cause the body of someone I don’t know is NONE OF MY FUCKING BUSINESS.”

    “Also, when expressing my concerns over obesity in the U.S.A., I’m gonna do my best to keep my loathing in check, so whatever good & factual I have to say doesn’t get lost in the shittiness of my disgust.”

    Or something like that.

  1040. @littlesparrow7 (984)

    You seem to equate obesity and overeating. However, those two things are not the same: One is a physical and the other is a behavior, and while overeating certainly can contribute to obesity it is not the only factor. Plus, even if someone got fat by overeating their current weight does not give you any how they it at any given in time, or how they have been eating in the last weeks, even months. Also, for some of us fatties not trying to lose weight anymore means giving up a self-destructive behavior. I will go into more detail concerning this fatty’s history. Maybe that will make you understand a bit better… sorry, this is going to be long.

    I have been fat as long as I can think. When I look childhood photos now, I am actually amazed that I do not look “that” fat, but I still was fat enough from a very early age on to make my pediatrician tell my parents that they needed to watch my food intake. And watch they did. I have lovely parents, but the fact that they constantly made me second-guess my body’s internal hunger and fullness signals (“Do you really want to eat this? Think about it. Are you REALLY hungry?”) combined with my teachers’ well-intended but sometimes cruel remarks (“If you don’t lose weight you will never get a boyfriend”) and the taunting and bullying of other kids significantly contributed to me developing maladaptive behaviors around food (such as getting up from the table before I was satisfied and then sneaking and later buying food secretly some time later, crying and feeling terribly ashamed while eating it, and later hiding the empty packaging in a desk drawer or a corner of my wardrobe because I was scared that my mum would see them if I threw them into the trash bin). Also, I started to hate my body and the constant message that my body was “broken” made me more reluctant to engage in physical activities that I actually enjoyed such as dancing and swimming. As a fat girl, I couldn’t be any good at dancing, after all, everyone knew that, including me, and while I was a good swimmer going to the pool was basically equally to asking others to bully me and call me names. When I was 11 or 12 I had developed full blown binge eating disorder.

    I do not think people who comment on the “addictive nature of food” or on how there is a need to stigmatized overeating understand how much shame there is in binge eating already and how that shame contributes to the disorder. You feel bad about something, you have the urge to binge (often because under stress your self-control around food breaks down, something that has been shown again and again to be true for restricted eaters), at some point you give in, and even while you are eating you start calling yourself names in you head. This makes you feel terrible, and that in turn often contributes to the next binge. In addition to that, weeks or months of binge eating alternated with weeks or months of “successful” dieting in my case. I have fasted, dieted, and followed weight-loss programs supervised by doctors: I have done it all. And I always was “successful”, i.e., I always lost weight in the short term – lots of weight. In fact, I was called a “paragon” several times because I always, always stuck to my diet without cheating, eating less than I was “allowed” to eat, exercising more than I was asked to, several times losing up to 30 or 40 kg – until I just couldn’t keep it up any longer and started to regain. Lots of people will say that I would have needed to stick to the respective program for the rest of my life. And indeed, in order to keep the weight down I would have had to do just that. But here is the thing: Those weight-loss efforts had always a price. They came at the price of being constantly hungry and obsessed with food, and that obsession got only stronger the longer I kept up the respective diet. They came at the price at having less energy to do other things in my life. They came at the price of losing hair and once also my period (and it only returned several months after I had started to regain weight – and please note that even at my lowest weight since puberty I was still officially “overweight” bordering on “obese”).
    Today I am a 31-year old “morbidly obese” woman. I try to engage in physical movement that is fun for me – something that isn’t easy, because believe me, going to a dancing class when you are fat or doing aqua fitness requires a lot of courage and on some days I do not have that courage, exactly because I am well aware that people find my body, my “obesity” disgusting. And I have recently given up dieting (and I define dieting as any conscious restriction of food intake). This isn’t the easy way out. In fact, this is incredibly hard. I have always, always craved social acceptance to a far higher degree than it is healthy – and I know that my fatness stands in the way of being totally accepted by others. Even today, every single comment from others how I “should” lose weight, how my weight is unhealthy, every implication that my body is broken, every disgusted look throws me back into a spin of eating disordered thoughts and not letting turn those thoughts into eating disordered behaviors – both, fasting or bingeing – requires more self-regulation and will power than people can imagine. Yes, my weight is a risk factor for certain diseases. But I believe (and that opinion is based on months and years of research and hard thinking) that continuing the cycle and not accepting my body as it is right now is a far greater threat for my mental and physical health.

    You say you do not judge fat people but at the same time you say obesity is disgusting. You equate obesity with overeating and food addiction. I do not doubt that you mean well – but please, if you really want to have a positive influence on fat people’s health than listen to them, listen to their experiences. Create safe spaces for us to exercise. Encourage us and everyone else to cook, to truly enjoy food, to listen to our internal hunger and fullness cues. But also rethink what you are implying when you say obesity is disgusting. You cannot separate a person’s fat from the rest of their body.

  1042. What would be the point of having comments allowed on Dan’s post? Isn’t it obvious that

    1) if you agree with Lindy you are just going to dump on Dan

    or

    2) you are a fat hater and since Dan has posted his disagreement (you can believe it or not) with you, why on earth would he want to hear support from you?

  1044. Eva, I was always under the impression that Dan was kind of a passively loathing individual, especially now that he has been doing this for so many years. I used to get a kick out of his gay bathhouse bashing. Some of the advice he gives to teenagers and young adults, with the whole get over yourself and move on with your lives while painfully trying to sugar coat, makes me titter.

    Not to mention pitbulls

    Now Dan gets to try even more EXTRA hard to inflate the verbiage around his feelings of something else he doesn’t like.

  1046. Lissa @1044 (Bet that’s the only time I’ll get to write *that* on Slog…)
    Happy Valentine’s Day to you, too! Glad to see wittle bunnies have trumped rabid snow cats…spring must be coming to the Pacific Northwest… xxoo

  1048. This thread has no excuse for being this fat. I don’t care if it’s a controversial topic, which of course can’t be changed. That’s not enough to make this thread fat. The real reason is that a bunch of people chose to post in it. If so many people are going to post this much in the thread, it’s the thread’s own fault when it can’t fit into its old bandwidth anymore.

  1051. “Finally, my brothers, beware of doing wrong to any hermit. How could a hermit forget? How could he repay? Like a deep well is a hermit. It is easy to throw in a stone; but if the stone sank to the bottom, tell me, who would get it out again? Beware of insulting the hermit. But if you have done so–well, then kill him too.”

  1053. I don’t think that Dan is a coward for not allowing comments. I think he just doesn’t want to hear the same ‘ole, same ‘ole again. He’s heard it all before. And what could possibly be said there that hasn’t already been said here?

    He gave the response he thinks Lindy deserves. I just wish he’d edited out the typos this time.

    Something tells me that Lindy didn’t run this by him first. Something tells me that he was hit with this blindsided. I have no way of knowing this, except that I think that Dan would have shown a hell of a lot more respect to her if he’d had even a small inkling of what was coming.

  1055. @1052… well technically no.. he called kate harding that a few years ago..but his response to lindy was to link and quote his response to kate..and then close the comments..there won’t be blows of course (..although a shoe tossing weave tearing springer styled throwdown is what would end this ‘conversation’ proper.. )..but i suspect it will be one long assed while before dan will be able to shake the image of his new persona as editor in chief of ‘the daily planet’

  1056. @1061 I suspect a lot of people wanted Dan to walk back any shaming or bullying-type commentary he may have made in the past in regards to fat people, and perhaps to say he won’t do such things anymore. Which, as Dan has become the de facto anti-bullying spokesman at present, is where they’re likely coming from.

  1058. You know what’s sad? Even people that are thin or skinny feel pressured to be thinner or skinnier from their friends, work etc. I weigh 150 lbs and have been told I need to lose weight at work, have felt overweight in comparison to anorexic gay men who look at you sideways if they can’t see your kidneys.

  1061. I read your response to Dan’s original statement and I felt you were projecting a bit. He was slippery retorting to the ridiculous slippery slope argument being made in the Iowa debate regarding health statistics and gays. You are the one who decided it was a personal jab at you because I guess you feel guilty about your muffin top or something.

    You have way more control over your weight than anyone has over their sexuality. I say this as a straight man who is ~25 pounds heavier than I intend to be (I fluctuate in the winter time due to inactivity and heavy carb foods). You see who I blamed there? Myself. I don;t do shit because it;’s cold outside. I have the second helping of stuffing or pumpkin pie. I am the reason my jeans don’t fit. And so are you.

    You like links I see, so savor this: http://www.theonion.com/articles/glandul&hellip;

  1062. ..but i suspect it will be one long assed while before dan will be able to shake the image of his new persona as editor in chief of ‘the daily planet’

    Oh riz, that is just lovely. Thank you!

  1063. @ 1060, there was a lot of buildup. Read “Ban Fat Marriage,” then “RE: Ban Fat Marriage” (and pay particular attention to Dan’s comments there – THEY are what informed this whole shitstorm). If you still think Dan could possibly have been “blindsided” by this – well, maybe by the degree of the response, but he all but begged for a post like this.

  1065. as a feminist, i totally get that a woman’s body does not exist to be sexually attractive to men. i don’t wear make-up, i don’t shave my legs – because i don’t feel like wasting time on that stuff. if you don’t like how my body looks, don’t look at it. as a nurse, it is completely obvious to me that being overweight is unhealthy. frankly, it becomes exhausting to take care of fat people who demand double dinner trays. as a person who has always used food to deal with emotional stress, i know how hard it is to eat healthy & exercise. i empathize. but i also know that it makes me feel a million times better if i do it.

  1066. Dan’s response would be approved by Miss Manners. Polite, explanatory, disclaiming, and not allowing for his readers to slam someone who appears to be a colleague he respects. Ms. Manners would not approve of Ms West’s post, however.

    I don’t think Dan is the enemy, Ms. West.

    As for the rant, which curiously manages to mix self-empowerment with victimhood, blah. Maybe you ought to stop assuming every fat person’s experience and ability is identical to yours. Maybe you ought to learn to separate your friends from your enemies. And maybe you should treat other human beings as imperfect but wanting to be nice and do the right thing, instead of as cruel oppressors. Let me guess, women’s studies?

  1068. @1066 like I said, may have said. So much of this is interpreted differently by different people. As a heavy dude that’s been both thin and heavy in several cycles, calling me a fatass is water off my back, because I know that and I know exactly why I’m fat, and why I’m de-fatting right now. But by the same token, I’m sure there are gays and blacks and others out there that the most nasty of comments will be met with a cheerful “fuck you too” and it won’t even bother them for whatever reason–while others will be crushed. We’re all unique. Obviously, things that Dan has said or written have incensed Lindy, and if they’ve done that to her–they’ve done it to others as well.

  1072. Just want to comment here, finally, after over a thousand responses.

    The comments seem pretty much divided in terms of the details concerning obesity and the many issues involved with it. The bigger message, though, is one I can latch onto- which is that we love you Lindy. You bring laughter and joy to most of us who read your work because you are an intelligent, witty, incredibly eloquent individual. And as a writer technically we never even have to see what you look like physically- so I have to honestly say no one should give a damn what you look like.

    HOWEVER- that is where my love ends. Your message of “I don’t give a fuck what you think” is both inspirational and a little delusional/dangerous. I completely agree with the people here pointing out that if you truly DIDN’T give a flying fuck you wouldn’t have so passionately written what you did. You care. And honestly it’s important that you care. That everyone cares. Fat, skinny, average- it doesn’t matter WHAT your weight is, generally speaking. It matters what your habits are. If you are 263lbs, but eat plenty of veggies, fruits, and keep the processed foods to a reasonable level, exercise regularly, and maintain an active, mentally stimulating existence then you are probably quite healthy and not, in fact, a drain on society.

    But it is very, VERY rare for a person of your height and size to be doing all this and not seeing some form of change to their body mass. And when you honestly analyze your habits I’m sure there are a few little things you could be doing to improve your health (regardless of whether that will help your weight- though it most likely will). In any event my last comment on that would be as long as you are keeping yourself healthy enough to avoid Type II Diabetes, or any other fat-related medical issues then keep on truckin’. If not? Then your “fuck you I’m fine” isn’t exactly correct or a healthy mental state.

    In concern with all this Dan Hate? Dear god. I mean seriously. Dear. God. I went back and read his works. I’ve read almost every single thing he’s written- and honestly? No, sorry, he does not hate fat people and his rhetoric is not toxic. All of these people hailing Dan as the Fat Antichrist and how much of a “fat Bully” he is really disturb me.

    It feels a lot like Isaac Haye’s response to Southpark’s episode about Scientology. He spends nearly, what, 9 or 10 seasons on that show, participating in the complete lambasting of every pop culture institution, organized religion, philosophical ideology, social group and cause. But suddenly, after the show set its sights on Scientology he quits the show in a huff- spouting “How DARE you attack my religion! You never show this kind of disrespect to anything else and it is obvious your biased hatred for my religious institution!” Which left the makers of the show scratching their collective heads. Ripping apart religion is a corner-stone of Southpark and has been since their very first short (Santa Versus Jesus). But the minute they attack HIS religion it’s suddenly hate speech worthy of him severing ties? Pathetic.

    Dan is a blunt motherfucker. He calls it like he sees it. His “vitriol” about fat people is no more or less than any other group out there. His anger over the the Professional Gay Community’s seeming need to blame the person who contracted HIV while staunchly defending the person who gave it to the individual being a good example. Sure he’s 100% for gay rights, but that doesn’t mean he’s unwilling to call the gay community out for their own bullshit.

    And the same exact thing can be said about his opinion of fat people. He calls them out on the overall health detriments of such a body-type and generally the kind of lifestyle that (not always, but more often than not) propagates it. And MORE often than not he’s blaming our society and it’s institutionalized propagation of obesity with their subsidies and food lobbyists just as much as individual responsibility. It’s just in this case he’s using the exact same language and temperament in concern with something that affects YOU- and suddenly you find him repulsive for it. Repulsive and evil for doing the same thing with the subject of body fat that he does for every other subject he talks about.

    Just because it’s suddenly closer to home does not mean he’s treating the subject with any more or less respect than he treats anything else. You are simply seeing it that way.

    Finally I have to agree with post, what was it, 448? The commenter wrote: “All that said, I’m not so sure about this equivalence between being fat and being gay. Setting aside the marriage thing, I’ve never heard of someone being beaten or killed by a couple of thugs for being fat, or having their parents drill into them that they are a moral abomination for being overweight. I’m not trying to be insensitive; I’m genuinely curious.” And I agree completely with the point she is making. Sorry, Lindy- that is utter bullshit. Fat people and gay people aren’t even in the same stratosphere. Sure there is absolutely a problem in our country, especially in our schools, with people bullying others over their weight. But I rarely hear about a person getting beat up or physically harassed or receiving even close to the same kind of hatred that gay kids get. Do overweight kids deserve an It Gets Better message of their own? Absolutely. But you are dead wrong if you think Gay and Fat are in any way equivalent.

  1073. @1046 fatcarrot

    Though I appreciate and respect your experience, I’m still doubting the idea that obesity comes from anything other than overeating. Yes, there’s such thing as thyroid issues and slow metabolism (which I have as a result of past anorectic behaviour), but they usually only lead to slight weight problems. If you’re eating the proper calorie amount for your height and weight, and have made sure there’s no underlying psychological issue or disease, then there’s no reason to be obese.

    There are some psychological and physical diseases that lead to overeating, and these underlying factors need to be resolved for a person to live a full and active life.

    I do know, intimately, what binge eating is all about, along with anorexia and bulimia. I’ve been there, done that. I KNOW what shame linked with food can do to a person. It’s awful. It took be awhile, but I finally realized that my food issues were related to past sexual abuse I’d experienced. Before I made that connection, the problem had complete control over me. I’m not saying everyone with an eating problem has experienced sexual abuse, but I do believe that every addictive behaviour has an underlying psychological origin. You can’t get rid of the addiction without honestly and courageously addressing the pain.

    The problem I have with basic dieting and exercise programs is that they don’t address the problem or the core of the issue. If a person is eating (or not eating…in the case of anorexia), there’s an underlying issue that first has to be exposed, fully uncovered in all its ugliness, and then dealt with in full. If not, the person will never have control of their bodies, their impulses, or ultimately…their wellbeing.

  1074. Dan still thinks fat people are icky. Ewwww!

    poor judgment on his part, considering he’s been fighting against the conservative/’real merikans’ exact same reaction to the ‘mos for decades.

  1076. Lindy rocks and Andrew @2 – glad it works for you. But STFU about generalizing your experience. You’ve never been a menopausal woman and watched your body betray you. Less food, more exercise and the pounds just stay there. Even more exercise and the pounds just stay there. I worked out twice a day, 6 days a week for 4 solid months and didn’t lose one goddamn pound. I was fit as hell, very toned and couldn’t lose a single pound. So Andrew, again, STFU.

  1077. @1070. Hi Matt. I read the buildup. I wonder if she consulted Dan and told him that she’d be calling him out all over the Internet. I wonder if she showed her boss that much respect.

    If she did, then good for her. But Dan’s response is more indicative of someone who feels like he’s been blindsided than not.

  1079. Lindy, you are most excellent and thank you for this post.

    One thing to contribute for those who are trying to lose weight — not eating anything fatty is not necessarily healthy. The overwhelming pressure put on women, gay men, etc. to stay thin causes many to avoid important, healthy fats that can be found in sources like avocados and olive/vegetable oils. We need these fats for a healthy immune system and they are also important for having enough energy for, among other things, exercising and being active. So if you do try to change your diet, please read up and if you can afford it, see a nutritionist to make sure your body is getting what it needs.

  1080. @ Jade, maybe so. But that seems to be the way they do things on slog. I can think of other times this has happened (although not to the degree that it generated such a response).

    I can see Dan being caught unaware or unprepared, but “blindsided” connotes a calculated sneak attack, and I think that’s not what happened here. (It would be in keeping with his dramatic nature to take it that way; but obviously we don’t know what’s happening in the office and we won’t have any clues until either Dan or Lindy start posting again.)

  1081. Dan is definitely a bully, and pretty cowardly. Remember the way he bullied that local TV reporter, Marlee Ginter (I think that’s her name?), because of an segment she reported that wasn’t sex-positive enough, or something like that. Dan basically tried to ruin her career, so that if you googled her name, all this stuff about sex with goats came up. She eventually had to get her lawyer on his ass, and Dan had to stop and apologize on here — but was too proud to admit he was forced to by threat of lawsuit, and said he was just doing it to be ‘nice.’ Yeah, right.

  1082. …but obviously we don’t know what’s happening in the office and we won’t have any clues until either Dan or Lindy start posting again.

    Absolutely true. I realize my posts are nothing more than speculation.

  1083. 949: Wow, you completely misread and misunderstood me.

    1. I was complimenting your comment at 865.

    2. My “frivolous” compliment of Lindy’s shoes is sincere and not some back-handed insult to her humanity. It was an off-topic item. I’d made other comments on the thread more relevant to the discussion. Besides, my hunch is that Lindy wouldn’t object to a compliment of her shoes. If she herself didn’t appreciate nice-looking shoes, she’d be wearing Crocs or Uggs. ANYWAY…

    3. My reference to brevity was re: My previous posts. As a “morbidly obese” person myself, I could’ve offered my 10 paragraphs of my trials and tribulations, but opted for brevity. That’s all. Whatever.

    PS Dan not offering comments on his rebuttal speaks volumes.

  1087. Huh. Most of the Stranger staff made really, really supportive comments to Lindy’s post. I wonder how they feel about Dan’s cowardice? Working for someone who behaves like this must be really, um, interesting.

  1088. I predict that the only way this thread ends is to crash the system, or do an editorial cut off.

    HOWEVER – the very BEST way would be for Lindy and Dan to do a joint post here (either drawn swords or a slobbering kiss and make up) and THEN do a “thank you” cut off…..

  1090. @1090 agreed, dan’s refusal to let anyone comment on his rebuttal speaks louder than any of his boring out of context quotes from old columns.

  1091. @1079, well said.

    I read through the links in the OP that are supposed to document Dan’s fat-shaming, and seriously, I don’t see it. I see him talking with the same characteristic humorous bluntness that he brings to everything, including himself.

    Again, I like both Dan and Lindy and it seems senseless that this should turn into one against the other.

  1093. You know, I think this reaction is irrational and over the top. But it also makes complete sense to me.

    Food is an addiction. Over-eaters are like drug addicts.

    When you criticize addicts about their drug use, they fly off the handle. They do everything in their power to convince you that you shouldn’t criticize them.

    I was like that about smoking. When people talked about how it was bad for me, it made me LIVID. It was a visceral reaction, “HOW FECKING DARE YOU!”

    I completely identified with Lindy’s post except change, “I’m fat” to “I’m a smoker” and make the whole thing private because it’s a much harder sell when it’s about smoking.

    Especially the whole, “I’m much more likely to lose weight if you stop talking about how I should lose weight.” I’ve actually seen people make the argument, on many occasions, “When you tell me how bad it is for me, it makes me want to smoke more.”

    I’m not saying it’s a lie, either. Facing a tough life change produces anxiety and your drug of choice usually helps you deal with anxiety. Laying down and giving in to that is no solution.

    You probably shouldn’t live in this beautifully circular construct where you cant’ stop unless there’s no reason for you to stop. But, if there’s no reason for you to stop….

    Instead, find a different way to deal with these emotions that won’t likely end your life prematurely.

  1094. @1079 … very perceptive.

    The more I actually think about what Lindy wrote — and as much as I love her way with words — I think she’s just really, really off base here.

  1096. Yeah, Savage comes off looking like he can’t be bothered to actually respond to what Lindy said in her post, and his unwillingness to accept comments speaks volumes about his sanctimonious character.

    I’ve been reading him since The Stranger was a few pages that folded in half, and I’ve never felt so little respect for him. Boo, hiss.

  1098. While I respect and agree with almost everything Lindy has to say, I must deign to address the “List of Thin Privileges” is complete bullshit. I am fairly thin for my size, through absolutely no effort of my own. I’m just like this, my favorite activities include smoking pot and ordering Pagliacci, because they will deliver gelato to my door. And while I might not be marginalized to the extent that overweight folks are, I can say that about half of that list actually *does* apply to me.
    If you think that thin/underweight folks don’t get harassed for looking anorexic/too thin, or they don’t have to deal with bullshit back-handed “compliments” from friend that merely seek to single you out for making them feel bad.
    And being dismissed on my opinions on fashion/food/whatever because, “oh, you’re so skinny.” I am constantly identified by the size of my body. I hear about the size of my body daily. I am grouped and stereotyped because of the size of my body.
    And if you think that my size doesn’t affect my health, you’re wrong again. My sized turned a stomach flu into a 3-day hospital stay because I was so depleted and weak.
    I do have to deal with unsolicited advice about my diet from people who have deemed me “too skinny.”
    That list is crap.

  1099. @1100 tried: “Food is an addiction. Over-eaters are like drug addicts.”

    Except that if you stop eating, you die. It’s not really the same, but do try again.

    Dan’s new post seems pretty defensive. Sure, he’s managed to be civil in several questions involving overweight people. But his hatred for fatties has been pretty clear in others. He’s obviously pissed some people off, but rather than acknowledge that he’s just saying “nuh-uh.”

    I’m finding Dan’s column about 90% less interesting now. He doesn’t really say anything novel. I guess I used to read it partly because he seemed like a good guy.

  1102. I actually think Savage’s response is classy. He’s letting his record speak for itself, and not starting another dozen threads where commentors can go nuts taking his side and rubbing it in Lindy’s face.

  1104. See why I said Dan should now shut up about fat?

    Lindy provided several links (Click on Lindy’s links people! I can see a lot of you didn’t read them). Links that showed Dan Savage mocking and shaming fat people. And how does he respond? With cherry picked links to some of the times when he talked about fat people without being a dick about it. Or as much of a dick.

    As if showing that he is not always a dick to fat people refutes the accusation that he is a dick to fat people. Like saying that since the Mormon church doesn’t only oppose the equal rights for gays (they find time to oppose other people’s rights too), we can ignore that they do oppose equal rights. Or if we dig up some quotes of the Moromon leadership sometimes saying some non-hurtful things about gays, that makes up for their campaign for discrimination.

    The problem is Savage doesn’t really grasp what anecdotal evidence means; more technically, he reasons inductively when it suits his purpose, but conveniently shifts gears to deductive logic if that serves him. With the pit pull anecdotes and the youth pastor watch and the every child deserves a mother and father anecdotes, you kind of let it slide. It’s amusing and maybe for a good cause. But you see what it comes to when you make your living on faulty logic? It comes around to bite you in the ass.

    And turning off comments? Lame.

    Concede, and quit while you’re behind, Dan. Gracefully change the subject to Rick Santorum or the It Gets Better Project, or anything, but its time for you to move on. No need for theatrics or groveling. Just quit it.

  1105. Yes, Dan can be a little bit of an asshole, but he’s _our_ asshole and his edginess contributes to what makes him such an effective (i.e., not boring) advocate for so many of the causes the commenters on SLOG hold near and dear.

    Also, most of the commenters on SLOG are anonymous, or like to pretend they are. Myself included. That’s cool. But Dan is not anonymous. You know his name, and his husband’s and his son’s. You know where he works. He is a public figure, who appears regularly at venues around the country, without security, so that you can go up and spit in his face, or shoot him, if you are so inclined. And, he regularly and unanonymously ridicules, slams, insults and otherwise calls out some of the nastiest and vilest and potentially violent members of American society. And he does it on behalf of the interests of many of us commenters.

    What all this means is, while we anoymous SLOG commenters can dump on Dan when he’s wrong, we DO NOT get to call Dan “craven” or “cowardly”. Or “chickenshit.” Those things he is not. And we if we already HAVE called him those things in the heat of the comment thread, we apologize. OK?

  1106. Huh – my comment from Friday has disappeared. Here it is again, though most of this has already been covered by this point:

    Lindy, you are a beautiful person. Thank you for posting this; you are a smart, savvy lady.

    Haters gonna hate; it’s predictable as it is pointless. You don’t like big girls? No one is asking you to, anymore than anyone is asking you to like gay people. What is being asked of you: NOT HATING THEM. At the very least. If you can manage it.

    Telling someone with more weight than might be healthy to simply “stop being fat” is more or less like telling someone with chronic depression to simply “cheer up”. If you’re not genuinely interested in helping people with their issues, why are you calling them out, exactly?

    Full disclosure: I like large, curvy women. Do you know what they look like to me? Women.

  1107. “But you can’t sit on the couch stuffing Twinkies in your mouth and bitch about how shallow your partner is for not finding you attractive anymore because some people get cancer. Please.” – Dan Savage

    And posting that Tim Minchin video was crass. Dan thinks bullying fat children is just fine, so long as they aren’t gay. (Because Dan himself was a fat child who remains obsessed with food to this day. He controls every bite his kids take. He’s said so. Lindy’s opened up a true can of worms here.)

  1109. @ 1080 littlesparrow 7: If you understand how much shame is involved in binge eating and if you can understand how scary it is for a fat person to actually exercise, eat, or sometimes just walk in public than I find it hard understand how you can say that you find “obesity” disgusting and that you are totally fine with finding it disgusting.

    Other than you I fortunately never have been sexually abused. In fact, all the traumatic experiences that I made as a child/ teenager were mostly due to being fat. Yes, ironically enough, those experiences have contributed to my eating disorder. But I was fat BEFORE that – just less so. And until the shaming and bullying got really bad, I was actually an active and happy child.

    As for overeating being the only cause of obesity: There is evidence that weight is to quite a large percentage inherited. Note that this does not contradict that people have on average been getting fatter since estimates of the heritability of a given trait only hold for a given environment, that is, some people are genetically predisposed to become fat in an environment where food is plentiful and the opportunity to exercise is scarce. There are also other factors that seem to contribute to weight gain – repeated weight cycling actually seems to be one of them, and so are certain chemicals in the environment and people have no complete control concerning how much they are exposed to these chemicals. There are also plenty of medications who have weight gain as a possible side effect – especially quite a few psychotropic drugs. Also, worrying about weight has been found to be a predictor of weight gain (and yes, they did control for actual weight – so it was not the actual weight of participants who drove the effect).

    More importantly, however, even if a given person got fat by overeating and overeating alone it does not necessarily follow that this person would lose all the weight by simply normalizing food intake. There is data that people who have formerly been fat (and I mean truly fat, not 10 or 20 over what is considered “ideal”) but have managed to lose all or a large part of their “excess” weight are not metabolically the same as people who have always been thin. In fact, they have metabolic parameters that are somewhat similar to that of a starving person.

    You know, I actually might lose weight by doing what I am doing right now – normalizing my relationship with food and my body. If I do, I will be one of the lucky few for whom this is the case. But here is the thing: No matter what the actual outcome concerning weight, I will be both, mentally but also physically healthier when I succeed with this. I will have lower stress and anxiety levels. (And stress is a major factor in many of the diseases that are also linked to obesity.) I will be able to actually enjoy food. And I will finally, finally be able to live my life without wasting so much energy on matters that are trivial in the grand scheme, namely my weight. I just wish that society wouldn’t make it so damn hard for me to actually do that.

  1113. @1106

    “Except that if you stop eating, you die. It’s not really the same, but do try again.”

    Things can be extreeeeeeemely similar without being completely identical. Food addiction and drug addiction are extreeeeeeemely similar without being completely identical. I am willing to stipulate that.

    I don’t see the need to try again. I don’t see how that changes anything.

  1114. 1114, People shouldn’t stuff their mouths with Twinkies, and complain that the effect snack cakes have on your body makes some people less attracted to you physically.

    That video said parents shouldn’t feed their children junk food. Please point out why that is a wrong message?

  1115. This is going to be a moot point in ten years, I’m pretty sure. Dieting doesn’t work but certain nutritional supplements do–and not dangerous stimulants. People are fat because our bodies are malnourished. We are starving for certain nutrients, so we overeat to get more of the trace amounts in our food. The problem is in our food supply and our poor soil. The word will get out sooner or later.

  1117. @1106
    “Sure, he’s managed to be civil in several questions involving overweight people. But his hatred for fatties has been pretty clear in others.”

    Haha. “Heads I win, tails you lose.”

  1118. christ, dan’s response is really disappointing. “here are some more things i’ve said previously, which do not address the fact that i have offended someone i know personally. rather than apologizing, let’s talk more about the health statistics of people who are not me, whose lifestyle choices i know nothing about and which do not affect me in any way whatsoever.”

    hey, good news, dan, because you don’t have to like a goddamn thing about anyone else’s body! not one single thing. it’s your lucky day. you’re totally free to just shut the fuck up.

  1119. @1120, if we stipulate Ozzy as an outlier, then generally humans don’t *need* to take addictive drugs to live. Humans do need to eat to live–‘Just Say No” is not an option. Thus our relationship with food addiction is far more complex than your reductionist analogy.

  1120. I seldom comment and feel sheepish doing so now, but hey, all the kids seem to be doing it.

    For whatever reason, there are many people like Lindy who have been “fat” most of their lives. That is such a different experience than folks who became overweight in adulthood. For whatever reasons caused a lifetime of being overweight, I believe that the causes run much deeper, be they genes, psychological reasons, whatever. I have witnessed how much more difficult it is, if not how impossible it is for these people to ever reach an “ideal” weight. And yes, it’s unfair for the likes of Dan Savage to (apparently?) to be insensitive of that.

    That said, everyone I know that is overweight, regardless if they have been so all their lives or have become that way in adulthood, are trying to slim down or don’t give a fuck, are older or younger, etc., all have one thing in common- they tend to eat at least twice as much as I do in one sitting. And I’m not skinny. And I love to eat but I choose not to OVEReat. Being satiated is different than eating until you are stuffed. I guess I’m luckier that I have the ability to do that. But it’s a very conscious choice for me to always skip dessert and sweat my fucking ass off on a regular basis to be somewhat in shape.

    Why should I have to be tolerant of the fact that I consistently see overweight people who don’t (usually) burn as many calories as I do in a day eat so much more than I do? Food addiction aside, it’s still selfish behavior and is a waste of resources. And yes, it’s unhealthy.

  1121. Even knowing this is gonna really piss some sloggers off, I can no longer resist addressing a point I have seen repeated a number of times here.

    I see the similarities in the demand that fat people just control themselves to bible thumpers thundering that gay people should simply not be gay. I have heard it said that there is no sin in being a homosexual–it is ACTING on “homosexual urges” that they condemn. A lifetime of stifling the normal healthy urge to have delicious sex with someone of your choosing seems kinda like stifling the normal healthy urge to eat yummy things–the yummy things of your own choosing.. How is who you like to fuck all that different from what you like to eat? What about folks who like sex on the somewhat more risky side? What about the health consequences in that sort of choice? Let’s be careful to remember all the nutty and fucked of shit that people said about people with HIV back in the day. And I’m sure some would still say people who get HIV deserve it because they should have kept their pants on. Google Ryan White or read about how radical it was when Lady Diana embraced children with HIV. Lots and lots of people allow the EEEEEWW factor to dominate their views on and treatment of people who are gay and we can all agree that is fucked up and to be stamped out so why is it OK to allow the eeeeeww factor about fat to end up with people being mistreated?

  1122. I think people on Dan’s side just aren’t taking the time to reply. The article is clearly just bullshit. You didn’t want to be skinnier more than anything so don’t say that. And yeah congratulations you found out it takes more than a diet to be healthy. It takes running everyday and a normal diet that is healthy.

    Also you’re whole point about fat rolls not being unsightly? Really? YOU AREN’T WEARING A SKIN TIGHT SHIRT SO HE ISN’T TALKING TO YOU. I don’t see fat rolls sticking out, because you know that it would be disgusting to have them hanging out.

    That isn’t even a diss to fat people, it is truth. It’s commonly accepted that buttcracks are nasty too, but they are fine covered up. Also most guys dicks if they were just hanging out would be disgusting but we keep them under clothes, just as fat people should with fat rolls.

    I’m 5:9 and 143 pounds and yes I eat retardedly and happen to be lucky my metabolism is good. However I went through a period where i stopped running everyday and I became chub. It’s harder for some people but that doesn’t mean impossible or even improbable, it means you lack motivation, and it is bullshit that you say you accept your body now and won’t discuss it again. You posted that because you still are pissed, you wouldn’t have even made this post if you were happy with your body, its obvious it is just covering up the fact you are self-conscious about your body.

    Don’t unfairly attack Dan, He gives credit to people I think are crazy and happens to be spot on a lot, and even if his ideas are no longer novel, to the people he is helping they are. Telling fat people they should love their bodies is disgusting, imagine what underfed people in impoverished countries think about obesity? Fuck I could talk about it all day and I doubt anyone will even read this post, either because it’s 1/1100 or my name’s Anal Smith or its too long. Either way fuck it. I usually finish writing comments and then never post them but there are too many ridiculous comments I need to even them out.

  1123. @1116 Fatcarrot

    I find obesity disgusting because even with all the information we have out there on eating right and living well, there’s still an obesity epidemic. I also find it disgusting because of the mass amounts of deluded people making excuses for it. It we flip this around, I’m disgusted by anorexia, as well.

    This thought just occurred to me…but…Could it be possible that your entire life is a sort of rebellion against your parents for forcing you to obsess about your weight and about food? Parents are the most significant people in our lives – for better or worse – and they contribute to so many of our predicaments, both good and bad. Their influence is pivotal to our development. If you were forced as a young child to constantly be aware of the size of your body in comparison to others and your consumption of food, wouldn’t it make sense that something inside of you is crying out to act against those restrictions? Almost anyone who is restricted will eventually act out against “the ties that bind them”, consciously or not.

    It sounds like some part of you is always shouting out, “Fuck all of you (specifically your parents, but also anyone you perceive as being against you because of your weight), I am going to eat what I want when I want to, because I am a free individual…AND…I will make you accept me and love me as I am…fat and all!” Given your experiences, you have every right to feel this way, or at least for some part of you to feel this way.

    That’s just a shot in the dark on my part, but it comes from reading about your experiences and your take on the whole issue of obesity. Have you ever confronted your parents directly regarding the pain you experienced as a child because of the restrictions they enforced surrounding your food intake? It definitely sounds like there would have been better, gentler ways of dealing with your weight and health as a young child. I truly feel for you.

  1124. Can I just take a moment to say I never thought Dan would be chickenshit enough to disable comments on his responses to this post. I’m disappointed. Lindy wins imho

  1126. @1125 Hydroza: I don’t think most of the people here are quibbling about whether or not Dan has apologized to Lindy (that’s between them, and doesn’t necessarily define the debate–you can apologize for having a disagreement without changing your position.) Dan isn’t saying anything that hasn’t been said by a ton of experts, medical doctors, etc.: That for *most* people, food choices and exercise or lack thereof have an effect on weight and health. The loudest voices on this thread seem to be saying, “But there are exceptions to that rule! I have a medical issue that causes me to gain weight, etc.” There will be exceptions to every rule. There are people who smoke for their whole lives, and live to be 100. They are the exception to the rule. By your definition, we shouldn’t suggest to people that smoking is unhealthy because it isn’t unhealthy for everyone, all the time. There is nothing radical or cruel about what Dan is saying, but it isn’t what a lot of people want to hear, and so they become defensive.

    I don’t think Dan is asking for you or anyone else to give him a boner, as you suggested. Your post, way back at 8__ something, talked about the unfairness of wanting to eat yummy food, and not being able to because you would gain too much weight, and that is somehow Dan’s/men’s fault for forcing you to conform to a certain body image, and that you shouldn’t be made to feel you have to look good for men. Jeez. First of all, life isn’t fair. I, too, would love to put melted cheese all over my food, but I don’t, for the same reason you don’t. Do I spend a lot of time thinking how unfair that is? No. You can keep singling out all of the exceptions to the rule, all those odd cases of people who eat nothing but cabbage and weigh 400 pounds, but the average North American eats too much and doesn’t get enough exercise. If that point of view has made Dan into some kind of radical, well…get a clue.

  1127. I never noticed any fat bias in Dan’s writing, but I certainly believe it’s there after reading this. I’m always trying to get my white boyfriend to notice his white, male privilege. This was a nice exercise for me in seeing my own thin privilege. I do not, however, think fat bias rises to the level of the type of discrimination queer people and people of color experience, but it’s good to think about nonetheless.

  1128. @Delishus,

    You know what, I think with few exceptions EVERYONE is missing the point. Everyone accept one person who was great to remind us that Dan has these blunt rages against all sorts of people, including those HIV persuers in the gay community.

    Most of these posts are people defending their attraction for or against fat people. Nothing about societal acceptance of fat people, or very little with respect to empathizing the other side. I’m sorry, in my experience, and many others there are no shortage of obese people (men and women) that expect sexual fullfillment and try to guilt or shame people into accepting them sexually when it is just not everyone’s thing. And really that is why this is personal for so many people in this thread, it’s about sex … and about being judged for their sexual preferences, prejiduces, and being incapable of providing sexual fullfillment. Which is I tongue cheek put it, “Dan’s gay loving” is ultimately the only thing that will satisfy the masses.

    I think Lindy is GREAT, she is proud of who she is and has no shortage of people who feel the same way about her. She is confident and will take or accept what the world gives her, and she is not a quivering whinny bitch who seems like she is owed something. Perhaps that is why she can live such a fullfilling life.

  1130. More as unearth by good vagina @1128: Our society seems to find “fat” funny and mockable all by itself – we are conditioned to laugh when we see heavy people in certain situations, just because they are fat. Substitute some other group in those same situations – black people or tall people or little African kids with HIV or AIDS – and see if there is an automatic humor. I’m talking about cruel stuff here, not a giant trying to sit in an airline seat or a black kid trying to hide in goose feathers. Society points and laughs because of the fatness, and that is automatically stigmatizing. There is a similar “eeeww” factor that society seems to place on fatness as well. Neither is cool.

    By the way, I don’t mind Dan’s lack of comments on his preliminary responses, and leaving all of it here, so the comments can be accepted “in context”. I also think that more is coming. And, I always found any apparent negative comments by Dan about fatness to be part of his overall caustic nature and not particular to that group….

  1131. jesus whatd i miss?

    body image acceptance… savage as fat phobic….

    dude, lots of people are into your body whatever you are.

    being ugly is not the same as being fat. if you are ugly, you have problems. fat != ugly.

    ugly people get discriminated against more than any other

  1132. Hm, this is weird 🙁 I really liked the article while still disagreeing with parts of it. I as a former fatty really liked being fat, I even felt sexier and and thought I looked better whenever I got fat but, other people didn’t and would make it obvious 🙁
    In the end though I was having trouble breathing and mental heath problems like anxiety which only went away when I started eating better.
    I contemplated all of this and my final conclusion is that she is just trying to get the shaming of fat people to stop- and I agree- making me feel bad about being fat just made me eat more comfort food because I felt so bad about myself and like her I always felt like my life was on hold and that didn’t change even after I got less fat until I said I was ready to start living.
    Now I’m no skinny mini but, I think what we really need to address is the factors that make us fat and unhealthy, bad cheap food readily available, additives that screw up the way our bodies take in food so that most of turns in to fat, kids not being taught to cook for themselves or even what vegetables are anymore in school, and no access to doctors for the poor. Even skinny people can be unhealthy and tax their employers premiums.
    We need to stop shaming people and start tackling the systems in place that make us unhealthy. Shaming is the reason why girl at a normal weight go in to the bathroom to puke up there lunches and everyone obsessed with being a size zero. So take all your hatred and anger at fat people and put it to good use making social change instead of making people feel bad.
    Even men aren’t immune to the pressures:( I like people with curves, my dream is to meet a chubby guy who likes being chubby and accepts himself and isn’t all f-d up about his weight. Some acceptance is ok. Girls with tits and asses are hot!! I know because I find it hot!!!

  1133. “I find obesity disgusting because even with all the information we have out there on eating right and living well, there’s still an obesity epidemic. I also find it disgusting because of the mass amounts of deluded people making excuses for it. It we flip this around, I’m disgusted by anorexia, as well. “

    I simply don’t understand people who waste an iota of brain space being disgusted by the appearance of other human beings. It’s so weird. Overinvested, much? I don’t get worrying about other peoples’ mass delusions. It doesn’t affect you in the least (don’t talk to me about insurance, mkay?).

  1134. @1128, I had the same thought the other night after Lindy’s post appeared. If you really want to argue against obesity from a health care cost perspective, it can just as easily be turned against you: why should the rest of us have to cover the costs for people who knowingly engage in unsafe sex despite the risks, then contract serious diseases? It’s a slippery slope trying to draw a line about who does and doesn’t deserve to be treated without discrimination…and really, is that a line we want to be drawing at all? I hope not.

  1136. Hm, this is weird 🙁 I really liked the article while still disagreeing with parts of it. I as a former fatty I really liked being fat, I even felt sexier and and thought I looked better whenever I got fat but, other people didn’t and would make it obvious 🙁
    In the end though I was having trouble breathing and mental heath problems like anxiety which only went away when I started eating better. My main issues with the article where that I have friends who struggle, in a health and mental and yes even social way, because they are fat.
    I contemplated all of this and my final conclusion is that she is just trying to get the shaming of fat people to stop- and I agree- making me feel bad about being fat just made me eat more comfort food because I felt so bad about myself and like her I always felt like my life was on hold and that didn’t change even after I got less fat until I said I was ready to start living.
    Now I’m no skinny mini but, I think what we really need to address is the factors that make us fat and unhealthy, bad cheap food readily available, additives that screw up the way our bodies take in food so that most of turns in to fat, kids not being taught to cook for themselves or even what vegetables are anymore in school, and no access to doctors for the poor. Even skinny people can be unhealthy and tax their employers premiums.
    We need to stop shaming people and start tackling the systems in place that make us unhealthy. Shaming is the reason why girl at a normal weight go in to the bathroom to puke up there lunches and everyone obsessed with being a size zero. So take all your hatred and anger at fat people and put it to good use making social change instead of making people feel bad.
    Even men aren’t immune to the pressures:( I like people with curves, my dream is to meet a chubby guy who likes being chubby and accepts himself and isn’t all f-d up about his weight. Some acceptance is ok. Girls with tits and asses are hot!! I know because I find it hot!!!

  1138. I don’t want to get involved in this this whole can of worms. But I will just say this: Lindy and Dan, you guys need to sit down and talk this out before you do any more arguing on Slog.

  1139. 1128, Dan isn’t saying don’t eat “yummy things–the yummy things of your own choosing.” Eat them all you like. People don’t choose to need food. When you get fat, don’t complain when some people don’t find you attractive, and claim it’s not your fault.

    People don’t choose to be gay. If they choose to over indulge in sex with a lot of people, or have risky sex, they shouldn’t complain when they get sick that some people don’t find them attractive, or claim it’s not their own fault.

    People need to be careful about both their sex and food choices.

  1140. @1140, many people need hobbies.

    We live in a judgmental society and it’s not surprising people JUMP to judge before thinking about the person they are judging’s feelings (I am completely guilty of this myself).

    I can source the countless blogs about celebrity (even the Slog at times) that completely rip other people down for entertainment. Look at the uprising of reality television, people love to watch and judge, so it isn’t shocking that as a society some will simply write people off in an instant for trivial things (like weight, what they are wearing, etc).

    I do truly believe dialog like this is helpful for those of us who want to be better. Who strive to become more empathetic and a more compassionate human, even from behind a computer.

  1141. @ 1130 littlesparrow7

    Is part of me shouting “Fuck all of you”? Yes, it is. But this isn’t really directed at my parents all that much. My parents have long ago regretted their actions and try to support me as well as they can. In fact, there actions would not have been that bad if the child I was back then wouldn’t have experienced their pressure (and honestly, compared to what is done to some fat kids in general it was subtle pressure) as validation of the negative messages I got from my peers and, at times, also teachers. Other kids called me names because I was fat. My parents loved me, sure, but they also said that being fat was bad. Somehow that got linked to the message “well, if being fat is bad and if those kids bully you because you are fat than you deserve to be bullied”.

    No, the people I am truly angry at are the people that discount my experiences when I talk about them. They are the people that call me names on the street. They are the doctors that lecture me about weight all the time, even when I come to them with an acute ear infection that hurts so much that it makes me cry, and that actually propose weight-loss methods that are quite dubious in nature (such as very low calorie diets). They are the people who assume that I cannot be very intelligent, that I cannot have much self-control, that I cannot be an interesting person to talk to, that I am not a sexual being, and that the best thing I deserve is pity.

    It also pisses me off that well-meaning people assume when I tell them I have struggled with eating-disordered behavior that I am talking SOLELY about binge-eating. Yes, that was/ is a large part of it but it was never the only part. As I said before, I have fasted, I have lived on something like four slices of bread and two glasses of milk per day for several weeks, I ate little enough for long enough to lose my period, etc. But these people just ignore it when I talk about those things. And they totally think that I should try the next popular diet, even though I know that dieting is triggering for me.

    Yes, this is overstated. No, not everyone is out there to get me. But honestly, until now, I tried to conform. I actually tried to live by society’s rules by the “common knowledge” spouted about health and weight. I really, really tried. It did not work and it did not make me “healthier”, not physically, and certainly not emotionally. So, yes, I am rebelling now, I am starting to live by my own rules. But it is damn hard, because that means going out there to a dance workshop and risking that none of the guys will dance with the fat girl or (in the case of an all-women belly-dance group that my teacher or the other dancers will look at me with disgust), it means quieting that little internalized voice that I am a disgusting pig, it means focusing on health and not on weight, and it means doing many more things that I am not used to doing or that scare me.

    I truly thank you for engaging in this discussion. I do not agree with you and your view of obesity. (By the way – anorexia and obesity are not opposite poles. Obesity and underweight are opposite poles, and binge eating and anorexia are – mixing those dimensions up is mixing up behavior and possible outcome.) I still believe that on the one hand saying that obesity is “disgusting” and on the other hand wanting to respect fat people is contradictory. But I do believe that you hold both of those positions truly and sincerely even though they might be contradictory.

  1142. @1140, this about to sound mean, but obesity is disgusting for evolutionary and simple genetics/survival/intrinsically human reasons. We often become repulsed/un-attracted to that which is grotesquely different than healthy individuals. We are programmed to seek healthy mates with healthy genes to procreate with, and shy away from the very different. This is why you don’t like people with deformed faces, etc..

    I know you are extremely defensive about this fact of nature, but get over yourself.

    Are obese people even attracted to obese people? No. They get with each other because that’s the best they can do, but even they are seeking healthy mates in fantasies/porn/TV dramas, etc.

  1143. Okay, I get that many of you feel disappointed about Dan’s response. Sorry for that. But, when did it become about you? When did you become deserving of an apology that is tailor made to your specifications, seriously when did become about you and your hurt feelings? How do any of us know that Lindy isn’t satisfied. Or that there wasn’t a heart to heart between the two?

    I know this is a touchy subject and I’m sorry for all who have been hurt in the past or will be hurt tomorrow. Still, the tossing of stones is terrible and saddening to read. Have you forgotten your humanity in your thrill to take aim? I’ve been reading many of you for some years and I’ve read you in moments when you were down right cruel and nasty. Being unkind is never justified, and we are all guilty of it. No-one escapes their both beautiful and flawed humanity, no-one. Nor do the moments when we are unreasonable arseholes define our entire person. I think it highly unlikely that many of us would like our less than compassionate moments drug out for all to see. Deep down most of us know that we are a confusing mix of champion cheerleader and bully. You cannot escape it, Dan Savage cannot escape it, Lindy West cannot escape it, and I cannot escape it. We do ourselves no favor pretending differently, just like we do ourselves no favors when we put Dan or Lindy (any other person, really) up on a pedestal and forget that they are human.

    That said, I hope Dan has adressed Lindy’s feelings directly. I hope both of them walked away feeling satisfied. In my opinion it is their satisfaction that matters.

    I’ll close by extending an apology to any person who finds my questioning their right to demand a response that meets their personal expectations offensive, judgmentat, etc. I’m sorry you
    are disappointed. I do not wish to offend you, nor am I judging you, nor am I defending any person’s (including Dan’s) own words. I’m asking you think as to why you’re wedded to a particular response, because it says something about your needs. I am sorry for every unkind word that this entire subject has touched. I’m saying I’m sorry that you have been hurt, rejected, etc. I wish you peace and healing.

    Now, I’m going to hibernate for a bit. Ciao.

  1144. @1149 said: “All the fat people here on a Friday night that had nothing to do and nobody to do it with, circle jerking each other got the comments up over 430.
    It will be interesting when other healthy, active individuals join the conversation this morning and in the coming days.”

    Dude, you’re disgusting. Communication major, indeed.

  1145. Lindy, you’re an idiot.

    Dan has been supportive of Fat Acceptance and Fat Lovers in many, many letters and podcasts.

    If you feel upset because Dan doesn’t fuck fat people, you should remember that he wouldn’t fuck you anyway. You have a vagina.

  1146. @1149 Actually, those who are more readily able to lay down fat stores quickly have enjoyed an evolutionary ADVANTAGE all through human history until very VERY recently.

    You’re kind of just spouting random garbage, aren’t you?

  1147. 1149-

    STFU about evolution. We don’t know that shit. Can you explain, then, why cultural preferences have swung from flapper thin to “rubenesque”? That’s cultural. It may have a genetic basis (you like what you saw when you were growing up?) but to say “we’re programmed” belies your ignorance.

  1148. @1149 Actually, you aren’t quite right in your evolutionary theory. In some circles, heaviness was actually a sign of prosperity during the Renaissance and Reformation; after all, food scarcity was the norm for most people until relatively recently in human history. Take a look at a Reuben and tell me if that’s a supermodel body. My answer is yes, but I’m not defining supermodel conventionally. 😉

  1149. Rob @ 1146 people don’t choose to be gay but what makes you think people choose to have the sort of body that requires constant gnawing hunger and almost constantly eschewing yummy foods in order to not become offensively fat? Look I don’t want to lean too hard on this comparison because it is too close to somehow relishing a tit for tat discrimination arms race and I always prefer peace to winning an argument but why are you so sure people are fat because they are overeating hand over fist? Why is walking the world with unanswered raging horniness all that different than spending ones life with near constant hunger?

  1150. god.. @1149 will the stupid ever stop.. in short..i’m a big old fat fag with a swimmers build husband.who love love loves me. loves looking at me loves being with me. and yes i find big people lovely been with them ..love them..( bears.. heard of ’em ? ) but you know it just occurred to me (..well not just..but for the sake of this thread )..
    *opens can of worms..dumps them on the table *
    …but..i’m black and generally speaking ( *fuckin worms are everywhere* ) black folks don’t hate on fat peoples so much. we don’t find them ‘disgusting’ not to say that we don’t have problems with obesity. boy do we ever struggle with obesity..but generally more from a health perspective than a beauty one. still a hurt’s a hurt and what people are willfully and gleefully doing is trying to hurt other people into being healthy..including you.
    and it never works..or never works for long.

  1151. @ 1133: what i’m saying is that the shape of my, or lindy’s, or anyone else on earth’s body, as well as my health status has nothing to do with dan savage. or anyone but me. at all, ever, for any reason. keep your prejudices off my body.

    my point in the melted cheese passage was that when i eat the way my boyfriend eats, i gain weight and he does not. this illustrates that our bodies process nutrients in different ways, for reasons that are beyond our control, and that therefore, you can’t know what someone eats by looking at his or her body.

    for lunch, 10 minutes ago, i just ate a baked cod fillet with roasted asparagus and some fucking cabbagey/cauliflower side dish, and my boyfriend ate two walnut muffins, a banh mi, and a plate of nachos. that’s what he eats. seriously. i also go to the gym three or four times a week and he goes never times a week. however, by the idiotic “i know everything about your lifestyle by looking at you” school of thought, one might look at my body and assume that i eat half a garbage truck for lunch every day or whatever the fuck skinny people think fat people eat.

    moreover, though, why does dan even care? what makes him so terrified for the health of people he finds disgusting? like, i have a job and a social life–i don’t have space in my brain to go around giving a shit about whether people like to pray to allah or weigh 263 pounds or fuck boys’ bottoms. i don’t care. it doesn’t affect me in any way whatsoever. and if i did care, which would be stupid, i sure as shit wouldn’t go around telling people to change their lives and bodies because i don’t like them. i would mind my own goddamn business. how fucking arrogant can you be.

    i agree that obesity promotes poor health, but it’s totally irrelevant. skinny people don’t have the right to tell fat people what they should or should not be doing, just like people don’t have the right to tell me that they don’t like my hair and that i should change it to suit them. i’m not going to give black people skincare tips. dan needs to check his fucking privilege and mind his own biz.

  1152. ” We often become repulsed/un-attracted to that which is grotesquely different than healthy individuals. We are programmed to seek healthy mates with healthy genes to procreate with, and shy away from the very different.”

    Someone must have forgotten to tell that to Nigerians, Samoans or Mauretanians, who traditionally favor fat figures. They got all evolution ALL WRONG! And what about those prehistoric gentlemen during the Stonerage, who were lusting after huge butts?

    On a more serious note, how you might want to read up on beauty standards throughout various cultures and eras, it might help you rethink your silly white male persepective.

  1153. ” We often become repulsed/un-attracted to that which is grotesquely different than healthy individuals. We are programmed to seek healthy mates with healthy genes to procreate with, and shy away from the very different.”

    Someone must have forgotten to tell that to Nigerians, Samoans or Mauretanians, who traditionally favor fat figures. They got all evolution ALL WRONG! And what about those prehistoric gentlemen during the Stonerage, who were lusting after huge butts?

    On a more serious note, how you might want to read up on beauty standards throughout various cultures and eras, it might help you rethink your silly white male persepective.

  1154. 1156 If you want, Constantly eat “yummy foods”, rather than a balanced diet. Just take responsibility for the consequences, and don’t claim it’s not your fault when you get fat.

    Gay or straight, if you want, constantly have unprotected sex with strangers, rather than carefully choosing your partners, and using condoms. Just take responsibility for the consequences, and don’t claim it’s not your fault when you get sick.

  1155. 1151: I never said I was a communication major. You might be referring to a prior post I made criticizing the Stranger’s dismissal of it as an academic program– but to infer I am a or was a student is bogus.

  1156. @1148 Fatcarrot – your post broke my heart a little. It pains me to read that it’s hard for you to go to a dance workshop and worry that you’ll be judged by the other women there (which is probably true; women can be incredibly judgmental of other each) and that no guys will want to dance with the “fat girl.” I hate that people have been cruel to you, and I admire your courage in doing something that frightens you, just as I admire Lindy for having the guts to talk about the shame she’s felt.

    I certainly have my own issues around my feelings about obesity, my fear of getting fat and the food guilt I struggle with on a daily basis. I’m well aware that my self-image is completely distorted and informed by rigid ideals about what’s attractive or not. So while we might be in very different places weightwise, I empathize with you and give you credit for focusing on health instead of just weight. It’s not an easy thing to do, at least not for me.

  1157. I feel bad for Dan. Called out and put into a no-win situation, at least in the eyes of Lindy apologists. Reply the way he *could*, the way many of you jackals would like, and he’s a big boss-man bully, further imprinting the “victim” label Lindy seems to have all but sewn up for herself and her BFFs. Take the high road and simply let his many previous words speak for themselves (and he didn’t “cherry pick” his links any more than Lindy did, and IMO his links provided a much clearer view of his voice on the matter than hers) and he’s called a “coward” by those same people. People not fit to wear his jock. (As far as comments being turned off, what would be said there that wouldn’t have been said here?)

    I’m impressed he chose the latter route.

    In the interest of full disclosure: I have never met Dan and probably never will.

  1158. @919: You are missing several important concepts:

    1) Often these people have gotten to their present weight on a normal diet of 2000 calories a day OR LESS. You seem singularly unwilling to concede this point.

    2) These people are reporting severe hunger even a) on a normal diet of 2000 calories a day, and b) WHILE THEIR BODIES CONTINUE TO GAIN WEIGHT ON THAT “NORMAL” DIET.

    It isn’t a matter of “oh, they’ve just been eating way too much and now they have to give their brains time to adjust.” They already were eating what should be a normal diet. Sometimes less. Their fat-storage mechanisms are literally depriving the rest of their bodies, even at bare subsistence level intakes. Their brains, and their fat-storing metabolisms, aren’t ever going to adjust.

    And all you can do is insist that they just need to eat less, and that if only they would be thin, they would eventually be all better, and healthy. Pardon me, but I’m at the point-and-laugh stage with you.

    It really, really isn’t that simple.

  1160. Honestly can’t believe that Dan had the nerve to respond without allowing comments. Way to get the last word by any means necessary.

  1161. Rob @ 1161 You win. I am unequal to the task of getting an idea to stop bouncing right off your head. I hope someone who loves you gives you a nice but not fattening Valentine.

  1163. Nobody’s arguing that it’s healthy to be fat. Did Lindy ever say that? Her post is about how we treat other people — even people who aren’t perfect. Yeah, most fat people aren’t perfect-they overeat. They have issues with food. But who the hell is perfect? Maybe you don’t have a problem with food, but you probably have something about you that isn’t so great — do you want it rubbed in your face day in and day out? Would that be constructive? I don’t think so. There are a TON of unhealthy behaviors, like drug addiction. How often does Savage harp on drug addicts? I can’t recall if he ever has. Why the constant harping on fat people? I think that is a legitimate question.

  1164. You know, Kim, Savage could have made his reductio ad absurdum attack on gay marriage opponents using lots of groups: the mentally ill, people with genetic diseases, alcoholics. He could have even gone extra classy and stayed away from conditions you don’t choose, and instead picked on those who made their own beds, like high school dropouts or convicted felons. “Ban Retard Marriage” would have made the point just as well (and dickishly) as “Ban Fat Marriage”. And “Ban Felon Marriage” or “Ban Dropout Marriage” would have removed a lot of the unnecessary cruelty.* Maybe he wanted to spare the feelings of all the high school dropouts and ex-cons he’s hired.

    But no. Dan Savage went straight down the list of options to attack his go to victims of choice: the overweight. Why? Because he worries about their health? Yes, he’s said that. Because there’s an obesity epidemic? He’s said that too. Because holding people accountable for their weight is sometimes justified? He’s said that on occasion.

    But the real reason is that Savage’s special mission in life is to shame fat people because he thinks that he’s saving lives by making fat people feel worse, and he thinks science wants him to shame fat people. And as a bonus getting a free pass to go on a tear about much fat people squick him out.

    * The flaw in the argument is that dysfunctional straight people will breed anyway. It’s practically the sine qua non of dysfunctional straight people to reproduce inappropriately and to excess. Banning them from marriage wouldn’t slow them down a bit. Whereas if gay parenting were in fact undesirable, then you could realistically reduce the number of gay parents by banning gay marriage, since adoption would be a little harder. The moral is: talk about reality and leave hyperbolic reductio ad absurdum stunts on the shelf next to where you keep your sleazy Quisling comparisons of your allies who slightly disagree with you. Godiwn thanks you. The only point is that gays are not worse parents, and deserve marriage as much as everyone else, and you can just say that without bashing fat people or drunks or high school dropouts.

  1166. @1148 fatcarrot

    I applaud you for accepting yourself and trying to let everything go. That’s definitely the very best place to be, and everything else will follow. I think it’s awesome you’re putting yourself out there, despite the restrictions you feel.

    On another topic altogether…you mentioned pity. All of us struggle with something, or with many, many things, one after the other. That’s a major fact of life, if not THE fact of life. Some of us are better than others at hiding all the shit we’ve been through, but like that old song goes, “everybody’s got a story that could break your heart.” I’ve had more than my share of heartache and pain, to the point of absurdity, but the last thing I want is for someone to take pity on me or feel sorry for me. To me, pity is something that takes my power away and turns me into the victim of my circumstances. Pity does this by seeing me only through the lenses of my past dejectedness, instead of seeing me from a place of transcendence. It keeps me stuck in the past. I don’t want to wallow in the suffering, I want to move on. I want to feel empowered, and to do that, the only thing I can do is live life fully, freely, respectfully, and gratefully.

  1167. #1165 “Often these people have gotten to their present weight on a normal diet of 2000 calories a day OR LESS.” – there’s a study in UK last year about how there is a big discrepancy between what people self report how much they eat and how much they actually eat (they used hidden cameras I think). There’re just so many foods (a little candies here and there) and sometimes habits (using a bigger bowl) that people don’t realize and they consume more calories than they think they did.

  1168. Kim @ 1150, this became about all of us when they decided that slog was the place to have this discussion – by “all about us,” you mean “when did we become emotionally vested in this?” Such emotional investment is pretty human. I’m a bit surprised at you.

    I’m disappointed, but not surprised, that Dan hasn’t apologized because he called bullshit on Lindy – in public, on the “RE: Ban Fat Marriage” thread. And she showed that it wasn’t bullshit, in public on this thread. The way the game should be played now, is that the apology should come in public.

    I do judge these things because I know how to say I’m sorry when I’m wrong, and I expect everyone else to be able to do that, too. What a better world it would be if everyone could.

  1169. I re-read all the offending columns. I’m now firmly in the Savage camp. He hasn’t said anything hateful, but apparently anything but “being fat is beautiful” is an attack on the self-esteem of fat people. BS. Savage was just as tough on gays who thought asking for personal responsibility in practicing safe sex was tantamount to shaming gays for having sex.

  1170. @1165 avast2006

    What you say is just not true. I know many fat and obese people, and they indeed eat more than 2000 calories a day. There’s only a very select few who become obese from eating 2000 calories a day or less, and these people have SEVERE health problems that need to be addressed immediately. If what you say is true, then many people in third world countries, without adequate food supplies, would also be obese. We don’t find this phenomenon to be the case, and therefore it’s not true.

    In the case of severe hunger that cannot be ignored, it could be a case of hypoglycemia, an often pre-diabetic condition wherein the individual craves simple carbs and sugars because of severely low blood sugar. Hypoglycemia almost always leads to weight gain BECAUSE of excessive caloric intake. This is also a problem that needs to be addressed immediately, because it’s often an indicator that the person is on their way to developing Type 2 Diabetes.

  1172. I don’t get this thinking. I have been fat and thin at various periods of my life and lived with a family that is almost always been overweight. Sometimes it’s because people get too busy to work out or stress food or whatever. But this idea that there is a “fat type” and that some people just can’t lose weight is absolute horseshit. All genetics and the other features people invoke as to why they are fat just affects the rate at which anyone loses or gains weight. It is biologically impossible to be fat you are not overeating and overeating consistently is unhealthy. Overeating is eating substantially more than you’ll burn in a day. If you eat less calories then you burn, you will lose weight, if you don’t, your body stores it. Sometimes that is good but doing it all the time throws off hormone balance, stresses joints etc.

    However, if you are overweight but in good physical shape, you are doing better than an out of shape thin person. Nevertheless, the idea that you are embracing your body like it’s some type ignores the responsibility you have for making your body the way it is. It’s embracing habitual overeating as some women empowerment. It’s a fine choice to make, and I don’t, like dan, think rolls are unsightly. But it is scientifically well supported it’s unhealthy. If you’re happy with how you live your life, then do it, but don’t act like “some people” just have to be fat. It’s biologically impossible.

  1173. @1179 I’ve commented here many times, and I’m not going to repeat the information that I’ve left on this topic. Lie to yourself all you want.

  1175. @1164–right on! Dan is soooo smart to have put his answers in a no comment form. He’s not the boss just because he can write snarky, funny, and damn good advice. This has become the saddest, most unpleasant Slog post ever. I’ll bet Lindy wishes she’d sent Dan a private email at this point–I sure as hell do. It’s like a nest of vipers in here.

  1176. @1181: Anecdotes are not data. You won’t get anywhere until you understand that.

    @1182: It’s a blog–it’s for commenting. More comments -> more page hits -> more $$$. Dan’s had years of becoming thick-skinned as a public figure; he could easily have ignored any comments. Netiquette says shutting down commentary is always bad. Lindy FTW.

  1177. @1181 – You’re so right people don’t realize how much calories they are putting in sometimes. I have a coworker who eats mostly salad for lunch but then gulps down a big cup of Star Bucks latte which probably has more calories than a big Mac.

  1178. @1183 WeeblesWobble

    Here ya go (FACTS from the European Congress on Obesity):

    “Are too many calories to blame for the raging obesity epidemic in the US? The answer is yes, according to an exhaustive study that squarely blames excessive energy intake for bulging waistlines since the 1970s.
    “This study demonstrates that the weight gain in the American population seems to be virtually all explained by eating more calories,” said Boyd Swinburn, head of population health at Deakin University who led the study.

    The scientists started by testing 1,399 adults and 963 children to determine how many calories their bodies burn in total, under free-living conditions. The test is the most accurate measure of total calorie burning in real-life situations.

    Once they had determined each person’s calorie burning rate, Swinburn and his colleagues were able to calculate how much adults needed to eat in order to maintain a stable weight and how much children needed to eat in order to maintain a normal growth curve.

    They then worked out how much Americans were actually eating, using national food supply data (the amount of food produced and imported, minus the amount exported, thrown away and used for animals or other non-human uses) from the 1970s and the early 2000s.

    The researchers used their findings to predict how much weight they would expect Americans to have gained over the 30-year period studied if food intake were the only influence.

    “If the actual weight increase was the same as what we predicted, that meant that food intake was virtually entirely responsible. If it wasn’t, that meant changes in physical activity also played a role,” Swinburn said.

    The researchers found that in children, the predicted and actual weight increase matched exactly, indicating that the increases in energy intake alone over the 30 years studied could explain the weight increase, said a Deakin release.

    “For adults, we predicted that they would be 10.8 kg heavier, but in fact they were 8.6 kg heavier. That suggests that excess food intake still explains the weight gain, but that there may have been increases in physical activity over the 30 years that have blunted what would otherwise have been a higher weight gain,” Swinburn said.

    These findings were presented May 8 at the European Congress on Obesity.”

    source: http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/sci-&hellip;

  1182. Kim in Portland @1150: Your earlier comment was appreciated, but a bit off the mark. I didn’t mean to accuse you, but merely point out that your comment was most easily perceived as defensive when viewed within the larger context of the thread. I only meant for you to consider the ramifications of such a response, given the climate of hurt feelings here; I certainly didn’t mean to cast aspersions on your background or qualifications, of which I knew nothing. Kindly remember that meaning is negotiated, so other understandings of your words are often just as valid as your own. I simply wished to point out how your statements could be interpreted when approached from another perspective, and I do not think that can be dismissed as a simple tendency to find fault.

    (Although, finding fault is rather an occupational hazard for an editor…) 😉

    In @1150, however, I believe you are again doing Mr. Savage no service here by questioning people’s demands for an explicit apology. A public statement expressing some kind of remorse is a logical desire, because the problem was caused by similarly public comments. Mr. Savage may link to as many examples of contextually appropriate discussion as he wished, but these do not erase his many other comments where he uses obesity as a convenient dog to kick. It is those for which he should apologize.

  1183. @1183 sometimes decorum (esp inter-office) trumps “more $$$.” his comments section being turned off does not affect you at all, aside from keeping you from potentially drawing more hits to your own blog. about which i’m sure he’s very sad. but he did not add anything to the convo that he’s not already said many times before, hence no need for another open comments section.

  1184. Love Letter to Lindy West: I love you so much, as a writer I mean, that when your copy editor was a guest speaker in my class, I was a little bit sweaty and nervous. Because she gets to edit your copy. And I love your copy.

    I can’t work up an opinion about your fat. My own fat bugs me, mostly because I want to buy cute pants. But your fat doesn’t bug me, and in fact I think it might be responsible for your lovely boobies.

    I definitely like your words, and if your words come from that bod then that bod is pretty fucking great.

  1185. Linds!!!! I do hope you’re still listening because hear this: You are awesome from top to bottom, front to back, side to side, inside to out.

    I spent years being obsessed by my weight. Years doing everything I could to not eat. Not-eating was an all-consuming activity. It did not make me happy, it did not help my health (quite the opposite: my hair fell out and my periods stopped), but worst of all, I was not-eating when I could have been really DOING something, having a blast, writing the Great American Novel. What a stupid waste!

    I have a high-normal BMI now and feel fine—but I still look plump to the average eye, and people do call me fat. Well, fuck THEM, you know? I couldn’t care less what they think of me, but I WOULD like to have a do-over on the time and energy I wasted on pursuing some crazy body ideal. I’d much rather be remembered for what I said than how I looked. Because what I say and do lasts forever, and how I look? Well, ask any aging actress how that’s working for her.

    Girl, you have more talent in your little finger than 95% of us. Good on you not to squander your energy on extraneous things.

  1186. @1175

    The way the game should be played now, is that the apology should come in public.

    Dan doesn’t think he owes her an apology. He said her claims are bullshit, and he’s doing a damn good job of proving that, which is all he owes Lindy. He doesn’t owe us anything because he didn’t start this discussion. He doesn’t want to hear our opinions and I don’t blame him. He’s heard it all before, and if he’s interested he can come here.

    He asked for links showing him stigmatizing and hating on fat people. Links that he never got.

    He said that Lindy’s accusation was bullshit. That’s it. And now she’s given him a reason to show his numerous defenses of fat people who actually came to him for help.

    This is going to backfire on Lindy (if it hasn’t already) because she misunderstood a post of Dan’s, overreacted, and handled it poorly, probably due to the fact that she’s been carrying a grudge for a long time.

  1187. @1175 Matt: People keep mentioning an apology. It seems to me that they are assuming that Dan was wrong, and “cowardly” for not owning up to his “wrongness.” I understand that he is blunt, and honest, and doesn’t treat people with kid gloves, but I fail to see how that makes him “wrong.” You think that Lindy “called him out” on her fat marriage post, and that because she has a lot of supporters here, that somehow proves her point? What I see is Dan calling bullshit on *anyone* who is in denial: Be they a douche straight guy, a barebacking gay guy, a hypocritical Christian, or…yes…an overweight person who hates his life and yet has no intention of changing his eating habits. I truly think a lot of people on this thread are just shooting the messenger.

  1188. So all Dan can do is cherry-pick columns where he doesn’t deride fat people? Really? And put them up closed to comments? For fuck’s sake. Showing examples of when he wasn’t a dismissive ass to fat people does not in any way speak to the subject of him sometimes being a dismissive ass to fat people. Why not either write a thoughtful response or just leave it alone for now?

  1190. Lindy,
    Sorry but I am not impressed.
    If you cut out carbs completely and joined a gym you would lose weight GUARANTEED. So, uh, this is basically a lot of grief for nothing, girl. Get over yourself. Seriously. I do not feel even a little bit sorry for you.

  1191. @1195
    Yes, Dan is blunt and doesn’t treat people with kid gloves. However, in nearly every other issue he advises on, he can talk about the matter in shades of gray: cheating, as an example. He’s usually only harsh or cruel on people who are obnoxious jerks.

    But on the weight/”fatness” issue, Dan doesn’t seem to deal in very many shades of gray. Like many other posters here, he speaks as if overweight = eats too much = lazy. What Lindy and the posters who are defended/supporting her are saying is that weight is NOT that simple.

    Why is it not that simple? Because what we use to measure health in relation to weight are not always accurate.

    For instance, if you evaluate me based on appearance alone, I am anywhere from “chubby” to “overweight” (confirmed by helpful Internet trolls.)
    If you evaluate me based on BMI, I am healthy and normal. (5’1″ and 121 pounds.)
    If you evaluate me based on body fat content, I am “fair” at 27%.
    If you evaluate me based on waist-hip circumference (bust: 35 1/2, waist: 32 1/4, and hips 36 3/4) it’s amazing I’m not having a heart attach right now.

    Even WEIRDER is that after going to the gym for 3 months 3 times a week and working out at least an hour, I’ve lost body fat, but absolutely no weight or inches. Yet I know I’m getting stronger, because I can do more reps/heavier weights. I’m also not breathing as heavily when doing the Stairmaster, and yet my resting heart rate hasn’t decreased.

    And just to throw even MORE confusion onto the mix, my eating habits have not changed at all since before I started working out til after.

    So what does this mean? That weight and health are complicated, incredibly individualistic experiences. Dan seems to take that into account in other areas… And yet in the links other people have posted, he’s demonstrated an inability to reconsider weight = health = completely in an individual’s control.

  1192. Matt @ 1175,

    Would it matter if Lindy and Dan were satisfied? Or do they owe Slog some announcement?. I’m wondering about how many people feel that they are owed an apology from Dan for their own feelings of hurt or emotional involvement in this thread? Is the apology needed for Lindy, and individuals are upset for her, or is it for every single person here? If the apology is needed for all,then what does it need to say?

    Those are my questions. Just questions, not judgements. And, clearly you feel that there must be some public announcement. Thank you for sharing.

    Sorry you’re “surprised” at me. I’m sorry to have disappointed you
    with my questions.

    Take care.

  1193. @1062, of course, the difference is that Kate Harding IS a dishonest paranoid douchebag. And also a bigger bully than Dan could ever hope to be in his cruelest dreams.

    I’ve been meaning to post in this thread to thank Lindy for not linking to her.

  1194. How terribly sad and pitiful that people feel this need to attack your posts, your experience and then STILL attempt to shame you. That. Is. INSANITY! You wrote very well, you expressed your point beautifully and those that are taking all this time to attack you and your writings…I’m just amazed at the belittling. We have 1 single rule in my house – treat others the way you want to be treated. Clearly you that have attacked her either 1, don’t know that rule or even the idea of it and 2, must want to be attacked…? Is this what happened to you folks while growing up? You seem to be missing a lot of love. Really? I pity you folks…not someone that is overweight.

  1195. @1132, Jennifer Hudson *disgusts* you now? Seriously? Because her shape has changed? She was gorgeous before and she’s gorgeous now, she’s got a beautiful face and a lot of class. Saying you find her ‘disgusting’ is absolutely as offensive as saying you found her disgusting before but now she’s attractive. jesus christ.

  1196. @1198

    You DO realize that there are two kinds of carbohydrates, sugars and starches. Starches are complex carbohydrates that take longer to be digested and include foods such as breads, grains, pasta, tortillas, noodles, fruits and vegetables.

    … So by telling her to cut out carbohydrates you’re pretty much saying stop eating most fruits or vegetables. She also can’t eat bread or pasta. So that’s left her with diary, meat and fish. Of course if she’s a vegetarian/vegan, and “cutting out carbs,” she’s royally screwed isn’t she?

    I suppose starving IS a good way to get rid of fat until she, ya know, dies from starvation.

    Oh, wait, you meant something different when you said “cut out carbs”? You meant THESE carbs, not THOSE carbs. So, actually, it’s a little bit more complicated than what you first suggested by just suggesting to a random stranger based on only her body weight “Hey stop eating this entire food group.” Hm.

  1197. Amen and Amen again! Thank you for your declaration/manifesto! I was recently rejected from my jobs health insurance because of my weight and it really put me into a depression because I am healthy. No one is advocating taking health insurance away from smokers, drug addicts, or people who have unprotected sex. Fat people have become the only unhealthy people in the world. Because of this new wave of media phatphobia under the cause of “health concerns”, I really had to stop and reassess my understanding of my own worth. I’ve been fat since I was 12 and I’ve accomplished a lot since then, more than a lot of people my again and from my background. And I’m not going to wait until I’m skinny to be proud of myself. I have so much to say on this topic but all of that to say thank you for using your voice in such an important way.

  1198. @1196 in addition to Dan not adding anything new to the discussion, people like you are probably another reason his comments section is closed.

    a) he didn’t “cherry-pick” columns any more than Lindy did.
    b) the columns he linked to are examples of him SUPPORTING “fat” people (not merely avoiding mocking them…if you want to find a column where he merely “doesn’t deride fat people,” then go to his archive, close your eyes, and randomly click a link).
    c) he *IS* leaving it alone…he’s just directing you to things he’s already said in the past.

  1201. @1190 How about this or this. It doesn’t matter on an individual basis (insofar as the bullshit use of shaming, ridicule, or even talking about individual circumstances) but there’s definitely a social as well as health, psychological consequence.

  1203. There are already too many comments on this article to check if anyone has already said this, but…

    Lindy, you are not fat. I have no doubt that your size has bothered you over the years, but unless your photos here (http://www.thestranger.com/images/blogim&hellip;) and here (http://www.thestranger.com/imager/lindy-&hellip;) are very misleading, YOU ARE NOT FAT.

    Or at least not the type of fat that has real and severe health problems that Dan has talked about in the past.

  1204. The article sort of treads the line, but ultimately it comes down enough on the side that “do what you want for your own reasons and stop worrying about other people” that I can get behind it.

    However, a theoretical responder saying “but it is a health issue!” would be correct. It is a health issue. Obviously, losing weight for your health is a good thing. But being fat is only a possible indication of health issues. Maybe someone is okay with being overweight but otherwise good. Maybe someone who is thin has serious non-weight related health problems. Blah blah blah. What matters is people’s intentions: both your own, and the people advising you. But Lindy is right, shaming is stupid.

    I’m follow a tumblr blog called curvesappeal and I can’t fathom why nearly any of the girls featured on there ever had any body issues.

  1205. Great post. Funny how people feel like their preference for the cultural media-pushed weight standard is not just an opinion, worth exactly their opinion on McDonald’s vs. Wendy’s French fries, but actually has some sort of credence and should be pushed onto other people.

    Also, I find it incredibly ironic that the most judgmentally outspoken people are the ones who actually DO have an easy time losing weight and ASSume that because their body works that way, so does everyone else’s.

    Um, no. I am, incidentally, close enough to the stereotypical “good” weight to pass. And I will never, ever tell someone it’s simple or easy to lose weight, because if your body works like mine, it’s not. I’m happy for everyone whose body follows the calories in/calories out logic. Must be nice to be you. And STFU because for a lot of people, it really doesn’t work that way, and your judgments make me want to stay away from you. I’ve spent enough years believing that if I just did what you said I’d be good enough…it was bullshit.

  1206. @1209 dirac

    Good links. I do think that sharing individual experiences is helpful, in that it fills in where the facts leave off. It does help sharing our stories, along with the scientific and sociological information. Don’t you think?

  1207. Comments were already at 900+ when I first saw this post, so I haven’t bothered commenting for now, but thanks, Lindy. You are awesome. Don’t ever change.

  1208. I’m a big fan of what Dan does for the gay community, but it has always set my teeth on edge when you can feel his venom toward fat people come through in his writing, even when he’s trying to be “helpful.”

    It also tickles me pink that Marilyn Wann commented! Her book, Fat!So? changed my life.

    I am a person who has a genetic predisposition toward being a big girl. I’ve never been tiny. When I took 7 dance classes a week, I was still chubby. When I was a cheerleader and a dance teacher, I was still chubby. I was not an overeater and I worked my ass off and I was still chubby.

    I have battled my weight my entire life, but I finally learned to accept that I’ll never be skinny. And I honestly think I look weird when I’m under 180. Right now, I’m around 195, My cholesteral and blood pressure are perfect and I rock my curves. I’ve never had a problem with men turning down their noses at my curvey figure. I’ve dated men who, some shallow people would wonder “Why is he dating that chubby girl?” Why? Because I rock, and I’m fortunate enough to have self confidence despite what fatphobes think about me.

    I move, I dance, I excercise, and when I want pie, I have some damn pie.

    Lindy, you are gorgeous, hilarious, wicked smart and an amazing writer and I have long been a fan of your work. This just solidifies my total girlcrush on you. You tell ’em, girl.

  1210. The article sort of treads the line, but ultimately it comes down enough on the side that “do what you want for your own reasons and stop worrying about other people” that I can get behind it.

    However, a theoretical responder saying “but it is a health issue!” would be correct. It is a health issue. Obviously, losing weight for your health is a good thing. But being fat is only a possible indication of health issues. Maybe someone is okay with being overweight but otherwise good. Maybe someone who is thin has serious non-weight related health problems. Blah blah blah. What matters is people’s intentions: both your own, and the people advising you. But Lindy is right, shaming is stupid.

    I’m follow a tumblr blog called curvesappeal and I can’t fathom why nearly any of the girls featured on there ever had any body issues.

  1211. Dear Lindy,
    I was in internet love with you before I ever saw you, but now you should know you 110% fit the profile of “lady I would like to marry.” If I lived in Seattle I would totally stalk you. Why are men so afraid of women’s bodies? As a raging homo, I find myself more tolerant to other people who have taken shit from everybody else their whole lives. I’d think of all people, Dan would understand what it is like to live that way.

    Please have gay sex with me (I promise it will be good,)
    – Beth

    P.S. Fuck J Crew and their tiny pants.

  1212. Seriously Lindy, if you just cut carbs and do whatever works for my specific genetic make up, you will be have a socially acceptable body and be attractive to men. And I can just ignore your entire post and continue to pretend that that’s the only thing that matters and any protestations are consent to fat shame you because no one, esp women, are allowed to ever not care about what other people think of their body.

  1213. @1217 If you can’t get the difference between what Lindy was doing in that piece and what Dan does regularly, there’s really no use arguing this with you.

  1215. @1210

    Except the picture you’re linking to isn’t a picture of carbs. The burger bun is a carb. But the burger itself is meat/protein, the cheese is dairy, the bacon is also meat/protein… So are you saying if she ate everything else but the bun you’d stop judging what she chooses to put in her mouth? Or did you actually mean the entire thing, in which case you should specify besides just “stop eating carbs.”

    And YEAH, I’m being intentionally dense to demonstrate how stupidly simplistic your attitude on nutrition is.

  1218. @1214 Sure. I am sorry if I came off as disparaging. There’s plenty of dimensions to this issue and it’s VERY complex–note that the links I gave you have a conclusion and a rebuttal using similar methodology.

  1220. good vagina @ 1128, Amen. I had the same thought as your post expresses, just before I read it. Thanks for expressing it so eloquently.

    To add to 1188 above: It’s about how you and others consistantly miss the point: That fat people are tired of being society’s punching bags for the perceived shortcomings of their body shape. The only thing you need do is understand that point to the best of your ability, because (as with gay people, old people, disabled people, etc, etc) the problem (addressed in Lindy’s blog post) is not in the physical actuality of a person’s body, but in a society full of people’s attitude toward that attribute and the group of people who are perceived to share it. You, and the other million people in these comments missing the point, are addressing a completely different problem; that of the effect of obesity on health.
    You are free to have all the opinions you want, but unsolicited advice is rarely appreciated (including this piece, no doubt).

  1221. @1228 Cynic Romantic

    I’ve left many comments here, many in response to what others were saying…so one comment seen by itself can be horribly taken out of context.

    First of all, I began posting on this article because of Lindy’s words, specifically the fact that she doesn’t care what causes fatness and doesn’t seem to see it as a problem at all. (Though some have commented that her strong emotion displayed throughout the article shows that she really does have a problem with her weight. If she didn’t she wouldn’t be so fightin’ mad.) I then commented in response to what others were saying. So many people, on both sides of the argument, are raising excellent points. Many of us are sharing personal stories. I think it helps. I also think it’s best we all try to treat each other with respect.

  1222. @1206, you’re right, “cherry picking” isn’t the issue. Except that it sort of is – to me, posting those specific columns seems to be his defense…here are examples of me being sorta supportive, so therefore you can’t say I’m sometimes derisive…which is bullshit. I don’t think Lindy would deny cherry picking her examples either…I just think in his case, it’s not a valid defense, whereas in her case, it absolutely is the way to support her statements. (Examples of him being derisive prove that he’s sometimes derisive, whereas examples of him supporting fat people only prove that sometimes he supports fat people…they don’t at all show that he often is not doing so.)

    And that posting closed-comment collections of these columns is pretty immature. How is that “leaving it alone” to do that? It seems defensive and nothing more…the point to him seems to be, don’t be mean to Savage (not, oh, maybe see that he’s been making hurtful statements and actually examine his own actions…Lindy linked specific examples, so if he’s not going to address those examples, I’m not sure what he gains by responding at all right now).

  1223. you all think Savage is really going to jump into a cage full of 1228 tigers (and counting)? the minute he dangles a toe into this thread you’ll all chew it off. no matter what he says.

  1224. Maybe you don’t want comments, Dan, but you’re going to get them anyway:

    I bet that you’re feeling a little stunned by Lindy’s post and by the outpouring of support for her (coupled with the accusations of bullying being directed at you).

    It’s my belief that the reason so many people are challenging/accusing you now is that your role in the world has changed so much recently. A few years ago, you were essentially an entertainer, and like Simon Cowell, being a bit of an asshole was part of your schtick.

    But now, with all your media presence regarding the gay marriage debate, and especially with the creation of the It Gets Better Project. you’ve become so much more than that. Whether you intended this or not, you are now the most prominent public face of the LGBT rights movement. This is a great power, and you have the intelligence, creativity, and persistence to wield this power.

    But there’s a downside for you personally. Being a famous leader in a controversial movement puts you under the microscope – there is going to be a lot more attention paid to your words and actions (both present and past). Any indications of hypocrisy or bullying on your part are going to be noticed and remembered more than they ever were before.

    The other downside is that you’re stuck with the responsibility of representing the LGBT community – so when you do or say something sketchy, it reflects on the rest of the community. When you, our mouthpiece, say something intolerant, the foes of gay rights will use it to attack all gay people.

    For example, let’s say that you have occasion to go head to head with Sarah Palin in a TV interview or something. Sure – you’re smart and articulate and funny enough to debate circles around her (not to mention having facts and reason on your side…). But, she’s raising a child with Down syndrome, and you’re on record as calling people with Down syndrome “tards” then ignoring the people who call you on it. Do you really think Palin’s supporters aren’t going to be able to dig that up, or that they’re going to put in the context of non-hateful things you’ve said over the years? And do you really think you’re going to have the moral high ground? Or, are people just going to draw the conclusion that gays are intolerant, and only care about bullying when the victims are gay?

    It’s not exactly fair that you have to shoulder the responsibility of being examined so closely or having to be a role model … but it’s a reality, the price of being famous. If you choose to embrace your destiny as king of the gays, you owe it to the rest of us to watch your words and apologize when you should. Otherwise, you’re hurting our position in the world, rather than helping it.

    So: stop bullying fat people, and don’t tell me you haven’t – both the outright namecalling (“LARDASS”) and the dog whistles (“Ban fat marriage”) are on the internet, and posting non-hateful columns doesn’t make the hateful ones go away. Stop calling people tards, retarded, or leotarded. Stop insulting women you don’t like by calling them cunts, and stop insulting men you don’t like by calling them transexual. And, apologize to the people you’ve insulted. It won’t make you lose face, it’ll make you look like somebody big enough to admit and grow from his mistakes. And it will make you a more powerful advocate for gay rights.

  1225. @1228 So, your solution to stopping the cycle of treating a class of people with hate is to call someone a “dopy pint” (amongst a million others) on a comment thread?

  1226. @1229

    Lindy does not care about her weight, but does care how people treat her/react to her/judge her based around it. I explain it as, if you stuck her on a desert island, she would probably never consider her weight. She defines herself in other ways, thus where she gets the “I don’t care” attitude. However, stick her back in society, and suddenly people react to her in a certain way based on something she herself doesn’t even think about (Like if people suddenly started being really mean to you cause you have long toes. You don’t define yourself by your large toes, and after a while you’d probably start feeling kind of defensive/upset that people are defining you by such a strange arbitrary physical thing.) She cares about THAT, about the attitudes and misunderstanding surrounding her weight.

    I don’t think these two emotions cancel each other out. We can have complex emotions, especially when it comes to weight.

  1227. Let’s cut the shit — “health” has nothing to do with it. This society deems fat people unattractive, and calling someone “fat” is like calling them ugly. Actually, it’s worse, because being ugly could just be the result of losing the genetic lottery, while being fat is something that you did to yourself, and how dare you let yourself go like that? It’s not just about aesthetics, it’s about moral failure. And it’s particularly bad for a woman to get fat, because we are still the ornaments of society, and required to make everyone’s landscape as pretty as possible. How dare we not stay within acceptable ranges to make dicks hard!

  1229. Here’s another anecdotal example for you, not to be generalized in any way, and to only be applied to my own individual case, okay? I am overweight, and ashamed, and yet I feel no judgment towards anyone dealing with weight issues. I really don’t, so please do me a favor and believe me. And yet I hate my own body, and find it unpleasant to look at and be in. Is it because I internalized some kind of silly size 0 ideal? hell no. I want to be a size 10, or an 8, as I was three years ago. I felt great then, I don’t feel good now.

    Here’s why I hate my body: I can’t run as far and as fast as I did when I was not carrying extra weight. I pop out of my clothes. I have less sexual desire. I feel less attractive. I already feel accused of not “loving myself” enough or accepting myself as I am. I don’t, and I can’t, because my stomach roll makes my stomach turn.

    I want to be healthy, and athletic. I also like being desired and thought of as attractive. It’s not the primary driver of my existence (that would be my job and love for my husband). But I also want to be attractive again.

    I’m 20-30 lbs overweight and it’s exclusively my fault. I do have Hashimoto’s thyroid (hypo), which in theory makes it difficult for me to lose weight, but I take a hormone for it and keep it under control.

    So here’s the grand explanation for my fatness: I overeat. I eat 3500 calories on some days. Sometimes more.

    When I go down to 2000-2500 calories a day, I lose weight. That’s plenty of food for most humans, but I crave more. So I can’t keep up the progress I make, and I hate myself for it; I don’t judge anyone else, I just judge myself.

    I wanted to add my experience to this thread, to alert some of you to cases like mine for which the only explanation is overeating, coupled with not exercising. Like those overweight people here who eat 1500 calories and can’t lose weight, my experience matters too: I eat too much, and I hate myself for it, while, shockingly, not having any judgment at all for other overweight or obese people. This attitude exists, and now you know.

  1230. I like @1232 saying Dan is a role model, like it or not, and that his quick witty and sarcastic slog posts will be mined for nuggets to be taken out of context and used against issues dear to his heart (and my heart, too). But, I don’t want him to change – just be yourself, Dan and that is good enough.

    Remember that tennis match that went on for, like, days? Surrrr-eal! This ls like looking at one of those weird GIFs that, if you stare at it long enough, you think it will jump the groove and come to an end, but it never does and you can’t stop starring…..

  1231. littlesparrow @1229: Firstly, let me appologise unreservedly for calling you a “dopy bint”. That was completely uncalled for, out of line, and mean, and I am very sorry I said it.

    To me, the article reflects Lindy’s absolutely emotional overload (for want of a more accurate term) from 28 years of abuse from other people regarding the size and shape of her body. It is that verbal and emotional abuse, and the associated presumption that accompanies it, which she is rejecting, not the medical risk of obesity per se. These are excellent points, but they are almost completely irrelevant to the point of the article (IMO).

    Also, I don’t think Dan should take this thread too personally. There is obviously a lot of pent up resentment and emotion being expressed here, and the fact that his posts triggered it does not make him responsible for the conditions that created it.

  1232. @1235

    Actually, all the length of this comments section is that fat people like to whine a lot.

    And Lindy isn’t fat. She’s a cube. Her BMI is over 38. She’s past fat and well into obese.

    To deny that there are serious health consequences from that is crazy. I don’t care about the insurance costs. I know that obese people die early, and help keep Social Security solvent.

  1233. Medeii,

    Thank you again for yet another unsolicited opinion. Will you do me the favor of restraining your unsolicited opinions, your criticisms, your proclamations of the supposed mass hurt I have caused, your demand that I negotiate the meaning of everything I say, your accusations that I’m attempting to defend any person, or justify any persons words and/or behavior? Because, I’m not. And, the fact that I have told you numerous times that I am not defending Savage or anyone else, should have been sufficient. I find your insistence that you are better qualified to understand what I’m saying or thinking very hurtful. Kindly keep in mind are not my judge nor are you my editor. I have never asked for your opinion or criticism, you have decided to nominate yourself for the job. Please, kindly keep in mind that I have as much right as you do to ask questions or state opinions on any thread. I am not obligated to negotiate the meanings of anything I post with you, either. Kindly keep in mind that your opinions are not facts, too.

    There are more than enough individuals who are honestly seeking to cause hurt feelings on this thread, try hounding one of them. Honestly, I’ve had enough and truthfully you are starting to remind me of bully who used a lot of nice sounding words before beating the crap out of me. I was never good enough for that person, and you have successfully convinced me that I can’t say anything to please you. Thus, I think it best if you just refrain from attempting to ‘correct’ anything about me and I’ll vacate this thread.

    And, I’m truly sorry for your hurt feelings on this thread. I’m sorry that my comments seem to have added to your hurt feelings. Which is the only reason I’ve come up with as to why you keep hounding me. (Perhaps, if I was well I could come up with a more creative reason to your liking?) I never seek to hurt people’s feelings and I’m more than happy to apologize when they tell me that I have hurt them. So I am sorry. I hope you find healing and peace.

  1234. Not one comment from Lindy, here or on Slog, all day. Only posts from Dan are in response to this. Only 30 posts total from others all day on Slog. Seems like things are kind of tense. I miss Dan.

  1236. @ Littlesparrow7

    I created an account just to let you know that you are awesome. This is one of the very few times that I’ve ever come away from a comments section with a positive experience. There’s nothing like a reasoned, fact-based discourse. Cheers.

  1237. Wow. Now Dan is the “King of the Gays”(?!) and should only issue politically correct directives, and should apologize retroactively for ever insulting anyone? So, I guess DTMFA is off the table from now on?

  1238. Lindy West should run for office. Something like AWESOME GODDESS OF THE ENTIRE FUCKING UNIVERSE!!

    Love you, Lindy and love this article. Sent it to my teenage daughter. Well said.

    Now – please pose nude. Pretty please?

  1239. It seems to me that the shaming you are experiencing or social oppression isn’t all that harsh. You are a morbidly obese person that publicly and enthusiastically describes eating meals fit for a normal family of four.

    If I had my way, you’d have a horn blaring in your ear all day:

    “DROP THE DOUGHNUT FATTIE”
    “PASS ON THE TWENTY OUNCE PORTERHOUSE YOU FUCKING BLOB”

    You are disgusting and the most UNATTRACTIVE part of you is your personality.

    I’d rate your body a 1.5 and your personality a 1.

    EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

  1240. Why is Dan Savage the enemy? Why not the totally effed Western food production system that makes it cheaper and easier to eat crap? Why not the companies that are subsidized by our tax dollars to put empty calories, salt, and fat into processed junk foods that are marketed to kids the same way cigarettes were in the past? Being concerned about the obesity epidemic does not make someone a fat-hating bigot. It IS being empathetic and compassionate and I can’t see how anyone functioning in today’s society with half a brain would not be concerned about it.

    I think the way you turn obesity purely into an emotional, personal issue is ridiculous, and clearly does nothing to solve the problem. It is a political issue, and the 30% (or is it now 40, or 50 percent?) of obese Americans are being had by corporations who want to addict them, and bleed them of their money and their sense of having the choice and the will to change the way they eat. It is misguided and absurd to direct your anger over our society’s really complicated, destructive relationship with food onto DS.

  1241. Why is Dan Savage the enemy? Why not the totally effed Western food production system that makes it cheaper and easier to eat crap? Why not the companies that are subsidized by our tax dollars to put empty calories, salt, and fat into processed junk foods that are marketed to kids the same way cigarettes were in the past? Being concerned about the obesity epidemic does not make someone a fat-hating bigot. It IS being empathetic and compassionate and I can’t see how anyone functioning in today’s society with half a brain would not be concerned about it.

    I think the way you turn obesity purely into an emotional, personal issue is ridiculous, and clearly does nothing to solve the problem. It is a political issue, and the 30% (or is it now 40, or 50 percent?) of obese Americans are being had by corporations who want to addict them, and bleed them of their money and their sense of having the choice and the will to change the way they eat. It is misguided and absurd to direct your anger over our society’s really complicated, destructive relationship with food onto DS.

  1243. @1244 joshk

    Awww thanks, that’s so sweet! Sometimes it felt like no one was really reading anything, so that means a lot! You made my effort at keeping up with this thread and writing responses like a crazy person (while sick at home with a really bad cold) worth every second. 🙂

    Cheers!

  1246. First of all, I loved Lindy’s post, because it was clever and addressed the effects of shaming and the way that most people act like they know all about the health status of an overweight person and what that person should do fix emself, simply by looking at em. However, I’ve read a great many of these comments, and I think that this thread is missing a really important point.

    Lindy’s post is as much about gender as it as about fatness, and no-one, including Lindy and Dan, seem to acknowledge or address this. I think it was brave and brilliant of Lindy to post her picture and her weight, but not because she’s fat: because she’s female. In this culture, women are expected to be physically attractive to guys and to be skinny (and dress femininely, which Lindy clearly does), in order to be worthwhile. In other words, Lindy’s shame came from how this society treats women more than from how this society treats fat people.

    Yes, this society needs to be more compassionate to overweight people, and we need to emphasize healthy eating and exercise more than appearance, but the soul-crushing expectations that Lindy is so excellently refuting are, in fact, more about gender expectation than about weight.

  1247. Dear Ms. West,
    Over the years of you being at the Stranger I have tried my damnedest to stay away from anything that has been written by you. For the most obvious of reasons really, you are a crap writer.
    I have heard from my various acquaintances in the whole of Seattle who have told that there is this article by someone that was posted on the SLOG that, supposedly, was, well, in their words, ‘Awesome!’ Finally after many confrontations of people asking me to if I’ve read that ‘Awesome!’ article I finally have broken down and read it.
    It’s crap!
    I’m not going to sugarcoat this for you darling, or the little druggie friends who have helped you up to this pinnacle, because this is a very defining and true statement coming from me.
    I don’t care. About you. Your fat. Or the size of whatever burger you are about to eat! Really. Seriously.
    Honestly, I was anorexic as a kid, I hit thirty and I gain weight rapidly enough that I was put at an extremely bad health risk. Since that time I’ve lost weight and still struggle to lose even more to stay healthy. But, sorry, unlike some that will remain unnamed I do not flit about proclaiming how angry I am over how others are ridiculing me about it. Nor do I see myself in any contextual sense trying to provoke an outrageous fight with another staff member where I work…please, that’s just suicide.
    While we are on the subject, because I’m being so honest and all, I’ve been sitting back quietly and watching your meteoric career with disgust while those around you flounder at the Stranger. True the Stranger isn’t what I would call the most stellar piece of journalistic integrity in the whole of the U.S. but I would like to think that it would have enough integrity at some editorial level to recognize the plagiarism involved with your work.
    Oh, by the way, before you go off on whatever conniving little cover up you would have about how you didn’t know you sounded like others staff members, please keep in mind that I have been reading the Stranger a hell of a lot longer than you and I do recognize the various amounts of verbiage and sayings you’ve lifted over the years from said staff members.
    You are a plagiarist. And not a very smart one at that.
    AND, I am NOT the only one who sees it. So, you keep on telling yourself, and others, that you are an original. (I’ve read what you call ‘original’, you don’t have an original voice and only started getting noticed when you began lifting work from other Stranger staff!) It all comes back to you being a crap writer.
    In closing Ms. West. You are a fat plagiarist with very little integrity other than being able to drink enough alcohol to look cool in the eyes of those who pay you.
    BITE ME!

  1248. Lindy,

    Seriosly hon.

    You are LOVED.

    Not just by douchebag “fanboys” like me, but by thouands (if not hundreds of thousands who haven’t yet had the pleasure of the introduction to your intellect AND beauty) who have yet to appreciate you.

    Dan S. isa righteous target – but just a symbol. Reading his response – he doesn’t get it yet. Buthe will (God wiling).

    Lindy – keep it up sweetie. You are loved, and you are RIGHT.

    And you are BEAUTIFUL.

    Damn.

  1251. @1241: My comments were simply meant to make you think, not to draw you into an argument. Apologies for making you feel hounded–it’s my nature to reply to someone who continues to address me specifically.

    I’m sorry to hear about your biopsy results. My mother didn’t survive hers, so hopefully you’ll accept my best wishes.

  1252. I was 245 lbs I’m now under 230 eating 5000 calories a day.

    http://www.geekbeast.com

    While there is a range of potential heaviness found natural in humans it is doubtful that you weigh more than a 6 ft tall powerlifter that squats 500 lbs, because you just go unlucky in your genes (really doubtful).

    Personally, I don’t care about fat vs. thin. I’m not going to think fat is attractive no matter how much you say it is so, but until it affects me keep on keeping on. The problem is that obesity is associated with a whole host of other metabolic disorders that eventually everyone else ends up subsidizing in cost (how many type II diabetics on medicare?).

  1255. A small piece of possibly helpful information for those who are overweight but have had no success shedding the pounds despite tremendous amounts of effort:

    As most already know, being overweight puts people at risk for sleep apnea. What fewer people know is that sleep apnea makes it much, much more difficult to lose weight. It may be worth getting a sleep study if you are one of these people, especially if you awaken at night a bunch, or if your sleeping partner says you snore, or if you wake up feeling headachey and poorly rested, etc.

    In sum, sleep apnea is a beast and makes life totally miserable and also causes a litany of health problems, including weight gain / retention, so it may be worth considering a sleep study if you think you might have symptoms of it.

  1256. Lindy,

    I agree with the overall point of your post. I think that people in general confuse being “healthy” and being “thin”. One does not equal the other necessarily. A crack addict might be skinny but I would argue they are not in fact objectively healthy. I know a guy who appears visually to be overweight but he eats a solid diet and runs regularly…I am sure I would be winded trying to keep up with him. If you looked at me, you would most likely characterize me as “thin”. But I have cellulite on my thighs and a belly roll from being pregnant. So even though I am thin, I have “unsightly fat rolls”. Where do I fall on the judgement spectrum?

    I think it’s a positive thing to do things that keep our bodies (and minds!) healthy. My problem with alot of what is said here in the comments and in the related post is that it’s hard to argue any real point when everyone is talking about something different.

    Finding someone subjectively attractive/unattractive has nothing to do with health or insurance costs or whatever. I think you do a nice job of addressing that.

    Hopefully, reading this makes at least a few people a little more aware and a little less inclined to judge.

    -Jane in Pa

  1257. Wow, holy trip to crazytown. Lindy decided to take Dan on, and the best she could come up with was a snarky comment about an unfortunate fashion trend? OMG gay man makes snarky comment about fashion!! Dog bites man!! Sky is tinted an alarming blue color!! And your deployment of that quote was, of course, utterly dishonest. That makes you a liar, sweetums. Why in hell are so many people praising you for this piss-poor behavior? If you want to take Dan on, you will have to do SO MUCH BETTER than this. A first step? Try rejoining the reality-based community, in which we look at what Dan has actually said instead of just imagining him making a squicky face as he types. Just because you have some sort of secret conviction that underneath Dan’s totally-not-phobic and reality-based comments, Dan is secretly motivated by hatred of the unsightly fatties!!, doesn’t make it so.

  1259. I love everything about this post except for the Dan bashing. I had a similar “i’m fat and I love my self anyway” moment of rage about two months ago and man it felt good. But when I was done with it, I picked myself up, went to the gym and stopped drinking so damn much liquor. I’m slowly starting to lose weight, which I have to admit I’m pretty happy about!
    It’s true that fat people do not need shaming (you hear that dad?), and I have to say that as an avid listener and reader of Dan for the past five years, I have never gotten the impression that he is shaming fat people.
    So keep on Lindy, I just discovered your blog and I believe I will visit it regularly, but please take it easy on Dan, he doesn’t have as thick a skin as you and I, you know, cause he is obsessed with being so damn thin.

  1260. The thing is… I’ve been overweight my entire life. It’s been Dan’s columns that helped me realized that there is a huge market of guys who want to sleep with overweight guys like me. And I let them.

  1261. … And you’re raising your voice to say that it should be more socially acceptable to be fat. Why do we want a society in which more people are fat? Think about the waste of food and the waste of dollars spend on healthcare. The way you got this way is NOT good for you. You are a valued, worthwhile person just like anyone else, and each person in the world has problems in one way or another. But don’t try to pretend that it’s okay to be fat.

  1262. … And you’re raising your voice to say that it should be more socially acceptable to be fat. Why do we want a society in which more people are fat? Think about the waste of food and the waste of dollars spend on health care. The way you got this way is NOT good for you. You are a valued, worthwhile person just like anyone else, and each person in the world has problems in one way or another. But don’t pretend that everyone should admire you for being fat.

  1263. Love, love, love, love, love. It’s about time. I read Dan’s response first, in fact, and whoo baby, that’s some defensive action going on. I then came here and read this — seriously, THIS is what he’s all worked up about?

    Thank you, Lindy, for absolutely making my day.

  1265. Shame is a tool of oppression, not change? Please, get over your self-righteous self.

    Diets don’t work? False. Fad diets tend to not work, and if they do, the results generally aren’t sustainable. Limiting your caloric intake and eating “cleaner” does work, along with exercise of course. Laziness doesn’t work. Cheating on your diet doesn’t work. Changing your lifestyle does work. You may have to work harder or be more diligent to overcome your genetics, but progress can be made.

    If you’re okay with being fat that’s fine with me, unless your slow, out of breath, fat ass is blocking my way up the stairs, or onto the subway, or spilling over into my seat on an airplane. Then I’m not happy about it.

    @1190 that last part is for you too. Not a study, but that’s how obese people affect me on a daily basis.

  1267. Lindy, I think it’s great that you feel good about your body and that you don’t want to be shamed. I, too, agree that shame is never a positive motivator for any sort of change or acceptance, and both of those things must come from within. I do take issue with the link you included to the “thin privilege checklist”. While I am well aware that, like any privilege, there are things that thin people take for granted everyday, I think this checklist unrightfully ignores the pressure even thin girls feel all of the time to achieve perfection in their bodies. “If I pick up a magazine or watch T.V. I will see bodies that look like mine that aren’t being lampooned, desexualized, or used to signify laziness, ignorance, or lack of self-control.” Nope. That’s part of the whole problem. The fact that the skinny models in magazines DON’T look like the average girl and are often weights/sizes that are unattainable is what drives many young girls to drastic measures. Bulimia and anorexia are also a big problem in this country, and much of that is due to obsessive focus on body image. The “thin privilege checklist” seems to think that if you are thin, you don’t think about your weight or worry about how others see your body. That is false. Many thin girls look in the mirror and see a fat person. I know that fat people are probably like “well, boo frikken hoo”, but that’s still a problem. It’s a problem that our society has created an attitude around body images that prevents a lot of people from feeling comfortable with the skin they’re given.

    So yes, I think we should lay off “fat” people. I also think we should lay off thin people. And medium-sized people, for that matter. Weight should not be about image, it should be about health, and that applies to everyone.

  1268. Lindy,

    I read your post, then Dan’s, and then about 500 or so of the comments. Now it’s all the way down to about number 1275 so the chance of you and Dan seeing this is fairly slim, but I felt compelled to respond:

    Lindy, you go girl!

    Dan, you just don’t get it! Your response has even generated even more hateful comments directed at Lindy.

  1270. Dan doesn’t get it.

    “Lardass” = “fucking faggot”.

    Equating fat with “disease” = equating gay with AIDS.

    Comparing fat with “choice” = comparing gay with “choice”.

    Dan Safvage is a fucking bigot.

  1272. Just Jeff, some of your equivalences are just flat out *factually* wrong, and that’s the part that those beating up Dan and defending Lindy can’t get right. The bigots here may not be the ones that you think, apparently.

  1273. Okay, you’ve come to the realization that you are OWNING your weight…but, I mean, just because you work for The Stranger doesn’t mean you are entitled to 1) explain that in some beat up fashion, and then 2) defend it into the ground, and THEN 3) be a bitch to Dan, and ramble a little more because you are “Lindy West.” I get it. I do. You want to the “I love you so much Lindy West” parade. But this is an abuse to this paper. It’s hideous to demand respect via your professional (not so professional) job. With that said, go back to writing shitty movie reviews. People might love you because you’re snarky, angry, demanding, opinionated, or x, y, and z. But I just think you’re cashing in on something that many a fat lady can’t. And I don’t say that to knock weight. Fat, as #1277 said, IS fine. That’s not the issue. The issue is your vehicle. Way to use the system, for no reason other than to make yourself feel a little better, or a little worse. Whatever, West.

  1276. You go girl. I am 200 pounds, at 48 years of age and my own husband doesn’t find me attractive anymore. But, I figure that is his problem. I got heavier when I had my 6 year old late in life, and he is a joy to me. Also, I went through chemotherapy at this weight, and was told more often tthan ever in my life (even more than when I was young and light) how beautiful I was, I began to realize that I really am beautiful. That it wasn’t just people trying to be polite. That they mean it. So, the hell with judgment. I also live in a suburb with a lot of unworking moms in jogging suits and blonde pony tails (even at my age), and I like being different. I would like being thinner, but not that much. Not enough to not like myself the way I am too. Thanks for your post Lindy. You go, girl.

  1279. So, I know that no-one is probably reading down this far but I want to throw my two cents in anyway. I think that people genuinely suck when it comes to being sensitive to people’s appearance… I also think that this is something that you just have to learn to deal with.

    I have been on both extremes of the weight scale, I was a chunky-monkey as a kid AND an anorexic adult. For my bigger years I was tormented, so I stopped eating, lost a ton of weight. The thing is, I got tormented even WORSE when I was skinny. My bigger friends (ones I commiserated with when I was bigger) now made fun of my eating habits, about how clothes fit me now and even though I never said a word against their weight… I was now one of “those” skinny people.

    I think that its great that Lindy loves her body but calling out a co-worker (he is NOT her boss) publicly is childish and petty. It completely ruins her credibility for me. She did not give the context for the comments and spun them to fit her needs. I agree with Dan, rolls of fat are gross when people are not wearing clothes that fit them. It has nothing to do with thin or fat… its about fit. My best friend is a big girl (and I think she is stunning) but growing up we were the same size. Its something she has never got out of, she is very size tag conscious. I went from a size 16 to close to a 4 and she tries to fit into current my size clothing… in her head we are still the same size even though she is currently a size 16. She get rolls, and it looks gross on her… just like it would look gross on me if I tried slipping into a size 0. When people wear the correct size… no rolls! Dan was talking about fashion in one of those quotes!

    For people who are ragging on Dan for his opinion shame on you! Its his opinion, he can say. I don’t always agree with what he says, but I will defend his right to say it. He is a sex advice columnist, not an advocate for every issue on the planet. He doesn’t HAVE to be kind or sensitive to every issue on the planet. I can even understand how frustrating the issue must be for him. He’s gay, its a matter of genes- he was born gay, will die gay and will be continually persecuted for being gay. Its like being persecuted for being tall or short. It must be very frustrating to see people get upset about an issue that is fixable. Weight is fixable, its controllable (its not always easy to control but you can control it). There are diets, exercise, will-power, surgeries and medication that can help you adjust you weight… being gay is not the same. It must be incredibly frustrating to watch people suffer for something that they can solve.

    Being over-weight can lead to a lot of health problems, its a fact. It increases the chances of getting so many health problems, just like smoking, alcohol, and other addictions (and I’m aware that not every over-weight person is a food addict). He may not have sugar-coated it, but he has an opinion and reasons behind that opinion, and people can either take or leave it.

    Does everyone find fat attractive…. no but people also don’t always find thin, blond, brunette, short, tall, big boobs, small boobs attractive either. Aesthetics are about PERSONAL taste. If your bent out of shape because someone doesn’t find you attractive, tough. There are others out there who do, stop being so sensitive and go out and live your life.

  1281. Feeling good about your own body is a great accomplishment. I myself still struggle with that to a small degree, even though I don’t judge others for how they look. But here’s a trick that might help others who don’t look like supermodels for whatever reason (not weight alone): TURN OF THE GODDAMN TV! Since I quit Charter for the horrible price and customer service, I have given fewer and fewer thoughts to how I look. I see people who are “normal” i.e. not on TV, and they interact with me and are human and beautiful. Being away from TV stereotypes makes it obvious that they are just that: stereotypes. I don’t internalize them any more because I don’t see stereotypes 5 hours a day! I don’t know what it is about people, but when we watch fake things on TV or online, we act as if it’s reality, even those of us who know it’s fake! Just stop watching it and it will no longer be your reality. It’s fun out here in the real world!

  1284. @1291 Brian

    Awesome, awesome post! I especially love this, in response to Lindy’s view that fat people are oppressed:

    “Truly oppressed people lack choice. People of color can’t wash the pigment off their skin. Gay people can’t stop being attracted to the same sex. Mentally or physically disabled people can’t grow new brains or legs or arms. However, as fat people, we DO have power over our own bodies. We may be shamed, but to say we are oppressed is an insult to those who are really oppressed, who do not, in any way, have the ability to change. Lindy shouldn’t make oppression a buzz word in her personal struggle with fatness.”

  1285. I’ve commented on this topic too much, but 103 stuck out to me…

    “try to eat less than 2000 calories”…

    Not going to work for all “fat” people, particularly women. My average daily caloric intake is around 1100 calories, mostly raw veggies and lean protein. I also require an hour a day of “light” activity or 30 minutes of “heavy” activity, plus an additional hour of “moderate” activities 3 days a week to maintain 5’5, 152 lbs. I don’t appear to weigh as much as I do, though, so I don’t get beaten up on as badly as I used to.

    I know how hard it can be to lose and maintain weight, I started at 235 lbs. Half the problem is the mental energy to do it just isn’t there when you’re beaten down by the world. In a way, many if not most fat people CAN’T lose the weight because they physically and mentally don’t have the energy to do it. Fat people also probably tend to just be larger naturally, so it requires even more work that they don’t have the energy for. I know firsthand that it takes A LOT of energy to stay where I am, and is damn near impossible to lose more (I was a few pounds lighter a while back, but felt terrible), and I have no right to tell other people to put themselves through that. Forget eating healthy, forget moderation. For many fat people, losing weight would be a constant state of denial (hey, like it is for me!)…I don’t eat cake on my birthday, and I don’t celebrate promotions with a night of binge drinking. I’m lucky I have a boyfriend who can drink an entire bottle of wine by himself, because I hate to waste expensive wines and I can only have 1 glass a night, and we all know that 24 hours is about your limit once opened. I gain weight quickly, so when I travel for business I’m always asking too many questions about sauces and ingredients…2 weeks off would be disastrous (I could gain 10 or 15 lbs easily). I find it so hard to dine out that I often just bring something with me to the restaurant, so I don’t have to sit at home alone (yes, I could ask for a salad with plain grilled chicken and vinegar, but (a) restaurants hate when you do that, and (b) I’m never sure they didn’t sneak something else in the food).

    So, yeah, not so easy. I’m not asking you to find fat, or muscular, or curvy, or big-boned, or any other type of person attractive, I’m asking you to keep your fucking opinion to yourself unless explicitly asked for it…kthanks!

  1286. @whoever said:

    “If what you say is true, then many people in third world countries, without adequate food supplies, would also be obese. We don’t find this phenomenon to be the case, and therefore it’s not true.”

    Um, there are lots of undernourished fat people in third-world countries. What planet are you living on?

    Or did you mean countries where large swaths of the population are dying of catastrophic famine? Because yeah, I take your point, that’s an eating model we should all be emulating.

  1287. I’m almost 50 years old, and have been overweight all my life, including when I literally starved myself down to a size 11, which was still considered overweight. I am on 0 medications. My pulse, blood pressure and cholesterol levels are perfect. I’m active, and happy. Most of my thinner friends are on some kind of medication or another. I have tried many diets, and they all worked, for a short time. Then, they stopped working. All of them. So, first of all, don’t assume that being overweight means being unhealthy. Second, don’t assume it’s easy to lose weight. It isn’t easy for everyone.

  1288. @whoever said:

    “If what you say is true, then many people in third world countries, without adequate food supplies, would also be obese. We don’t find this phenomenon to be the case, and therefore it’s not true.”

    Um, there are lots of undernourished fat people in third-world countries. What planet are you living on?

    Or did you mean countries where large swaths of the population are dying of catastrophic famine? Because yeah, I take your point, that’s an eating model we should all be emulating.

  1289. @1296 gbertina

    You obviously didn’t understand the point. I was responding to a commenter who said that some people are still obese even though they restrict their calories to below 2000 per day. If that were true, then there would be roughly the same number of obese people all over the world.

    Clearly, this is not the case. Some obesity statistics: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_ob&hellip;

    And thus, the fact is…more food and more calories equals a fatter person. It’s very simple.

  1290. Actually, 1297, the source of the calories is also important for many people. If I ate 1100 calories a day of sugary junk, I would weigh more than I do now – and I’d be really, really hungry. One of the problems that we face in the U.S. is that sugary junk is prolific and cheap, while whole, natural foods are harder to get a hold of and relatively expensive. Though I disagree with those who will say “calorie for calorie, they’re X times more expensive,” because one does not NEED as many calories of real food as junk, the fact remains that I could totally eat boxed mac & cheese, white pasta, white rice, hot dogs, and soda for way less than I spend on veggies, poultry, fish, and a few high-fiber whole grains.

    And, I really want a fucking orange. I haven’t had an orange in maybe 5 or 6 years…too much sugar…but I love oranges. My coworker is eating one and between this article/discussion and the smell it’s making me cry a little. Sigh…off to retrieve my bag of broccoli from the fridge.

  1292. @1297 littlesparrow7, I suggest your obsession with http://www.theskinnywebsite.com/ should disqualify you from participating in this discussion. Seriously. What body image issues do *you* have that draw you there? How does Jennifer Hudson losing weight make you feel? Is she a “better” person now than she was before? Would you like her less if she had gained weight? Would you have posted a disparaging comment there? Why?

  1293. I’m a dude, 6’0, 190 lbs. The much-maligned BMI states that I’m overweight (25.8), and the truth is that I could stand to lose about 10 lbs.; I just don’t care enough to. I have to put a LOT of effort into maintaining my weight as-is, including

    1. No desserts, ever. I haven’t had ice cream/cake/pie/etc. in years.
    2. No snacks, ever. That includes chips, salsa, crackers, cookies, etc. I don’t buy them; they’re not even in my house.
    3. No caloried soda, ever. Coke Zero was a godsend, because I really missed soda and couldn’t stomach the Diet labels. Again, I haven’t had a caloried soda in years.
    4. No meat, ever. I’m a vegetarian.
    5. No sauces. I don’t say “ever” because they show up at restaurants, but I no longer make any sauce for my home food, and the only thing I put on my salads is salt and pepper.
    6. I eat two meals a day. When I tried to eat three like everyone else, I kept gaining weight, so I switched to a “brunch” (really, lunch) and an early dinner.
    7. I do strenuous exercise for an hour a day, five days a week. Strenuous = running on the treadmill or heavy lifting. [How do I find time? I don’t watch TV. I don’t have cable or even an antenna.]

    There are a bunch of other tweaks– I use egg whites instead of eggs, only drink non-fat milk, don’t use mayonnaise, etc.– but those are less significant.

    I do have a couple indulgences: wine and cheese. As I get older, my metabolism gets even slower, and I know it’s only a matter of time before I have to give up both of those as well. (I’ve already started cutting back on the cheese.) I figure by the time I’m in my seventies, I’ll be living off of water and air. 🙂

    My point is twofold:

    1. It is a lot easier for some people to maintain their weight than others, and I seriously doubt that any of the anti-fat crowd have to live with the kind of severe diet I’ve imposed on myself. So you can STFU about willpower and whatnot. Y’all sound like George Bush insisting that anyone can be rich if they only work hard enough.

    2. At this same time, it is possible to control your own weight if you’re willing to give up a lot of things that everyone else gets to eat. That doesn’t mean everyone should– it’s a lot of work for some of us, and we may have better things to do with our time. But barring the very rare exception, it’s possible.

  1294. Very thought provoking. I can imagine what comments like this would do to someone who feels like they are on the other end of it. I am so happy to hear that you are loving your body more now, and with time and age, I hope it gets better every year. It has for me.

    I just wish there was a better debate about paying for children to learn and be creative and confident in this world through education and taxes than the costly health care required because of choices we make that often catch up with us. I hope you get the joy of having one some day and realizing this statement is as ignorant as yours about weight.

    So be proud, be confident and be humble. And remember the famous saying 2 wrongs don’t make a right.

  1295. Lindy, I was already a fan for your reviews of “Sex and the City” and “Get Him to the Greek.” Now I admire you as a bold and articulate fatshionista, too! Love the outfit — way to focus attention on your beautiful ankles! — and the don’t-mess-with-me expression.

  1296. @1298, I don’t know how global this is, but didn’t some dietitian recently lose weight by eating nothing but junk food — just a small amount of it (I think around 1K Calories/day)? I think the issue is complicated because you need to have nutrients with your calories or all sorts of processes start crashing on you. But the point (at least in his case) was that it really WAS the number of calories and not the source. Now, someone who’s actually a dietician or a biochemist correct me if I’m wrong, but the idea about sources of calories affecting your weight, I think, came from Dr. Atkins and his very vague notion of biochemistry. That doesn’t mean the low-carb/low-sugar diets don’t work for some people, but it also doesn’t mean that it works FOR THE REASON THEY THINK. It might just be that carbs, the way we eat them (with extra sauces and baked densely) have more calories per mouthful than meat. It might also be that sugars taste great and therefore compel us to eat more. Of course, you know better than I what works and doesn’t work for you, but I was hoping this might help you think about things you can eat that you might not have considered. If it doesn’t, disregard.

  1297. @1239, you might want to consider that that “being beaten down by the world” is depression from biochemical sources, not from how the world views you. I, of course, don’t know your situation, so forgive me if I’m projecting. But I know that for me, I got fat because I was depressed for a totally irrelevant reason. But then once I fixed that, I stayed fat and the fat itself was making me depressed. Only a little bit (i.e. slightly paranoid, barely enough energy to get out of bed, lack of willpower in the face of burgers, not WANTING to be healthy because of slight self-destructive tendencies, etc), but that was enough to make it very hard to fix. It’s a tough hole to climb out of — depression makes you sit in bed and eat and want to hurt yourself, but the only way out of it is to exercise and eat vegetables and be good to yourself. Nobody was ever mean to me — in fact, I got hit on more with the extra weight (not really a plus as far as I’m concerned, but I’m counting it as a sign that the people were nice instead of mean). Still didn’t make me not hate myself, but the hatred was from the depression, not the fat! Who gives a fuck about your weight — just fix the depression. It makes us all irrational (i.e. our brain incorrectly attributes a cause to the feeling), and it’s just plain no fun. For me, the fix was lots of water, SAM-e, all of my daily servings of vegetables (just add them to your diet if you still want to eat unhealthy things), exercise every few days, and more than 6h of sleep a night. It took a year and a half to make these minor changes stick, but now I can make the rational decision about whether I want to lose weight because I am no longer depressed 23/6. I think I will lose a little because my back hurts sometimes, but I don’t feel compelled to look like a model. Why? Because I know I’m fine and people who think otherwise are silly and wrong — it seems outrageous that I’d care what they think. Why do I feel that way? Because I circumvented the biochemical effects the extra fat (if I read the literature correctly, it’s about inflammatory effects of no exercise and adipose tissue fucking with your hormone levels) was having on my brain. Fix the root cause — feeling bad is not because of your appearance, just your biochemistry. And that can be fixed without changing your appearance, if you so choose.

  1298. Okay this is more of a response to Andrew, whose comment begins with: This is bullshit. I weighed 238 lbs on Jan 1st, and today I weigh 215. That’s 23 lbs in 6 weeks (actually less than 6).

    You sir, are an asshole. Not everyone loses, weight. I can attest to that, no matter what I have done, which I’ve done exactly what you’ve done, entire diet and exercise program…and nothing happened.

    You cannot say that everyone can lose weight…not everyone can, and it’s not our fault, or our laziness…it’s sometimes just a fact of our body, and our different healths. I completely agree with this blog, it is a beautiful piece and of course we shouldn’t be shamed into thinking we’re disgusting. More power to you Linda, and to me!

  1299. I think the criticism Dan levies against fat people (which is almost wholly legitimate) is being conflated with the illegitimate and often terrible pressures healthy women feel to look like supermodels. They’re not the same, and to equate obesity with healthy women who are pressured is not only dishonest, but it’s selfish.

    Lindy, you’re neither a tad bit pudgy, nor are you healthy. You’re morbidly obese. Plenty of studies published weekly in reputable medical journals time and again state that you are more likely to suffer countless health problems solely because of your weight. And what do you do to try to fix these problems? You blame someone who states empirically verifiable facts instead of making a concerted effort to do something about your problem. This is not an unwarranted criticism of another person. Would anyone in their right mind think somebody was unjustified in confronting someone with a crack problem? Of course not, and the only reason criticizing fatties is not P.C. in some circles is because there are so many walrus look-alikes in the good old US of A.

    I used to work in a health club, and EVERY SINGLE tubby bitch (used without any intention of referencing gender for you sensitive folk) looking to lose weight said the same exact thing: “I do countless things and I can’t lose weight.” Alas, a month into a diet and exercise regimen, EVERY SINGLE person who stuck with the program lost weight. At first, most chalked it up to the hand of god blessing their trainer, but then those that realized what it actually takes to lose weight owned up to the notion that it’s not a miracle. It’s a simple formula: burn more calories than you take in and you will lose weight. It takes more effort for some than others, but it can be done by anyone. Stop trying to make others feel bad for your shortcomings, and do what most of us do with respect to our own: suck it up, take responsibility, and get help if need be.

    P.S. I don’t know anyone who thinks somebody some 100 pounds overweight is “attractive.” If you love yourself that’s fine, but it’s selfish to force people to think you’re not unattractive and unhealthy.

  1300. this post = made of awesome.

    Dan will, if he’s lucky, someday come to some sort of peace with the fact that internalizing some others’ gay-hating does not excuse him for perpetuating hatred of other kinds for other people. I hope. For his sake, and his kid’s, but mostly for himself.

    His response is just a sad regurgitation of various odes on the theme ‘I’m hated! So I get to hate, too! It is only fair!’ Oh Dan. Grow the fuck up.

    And meanwhile, Lindy, you absolutely fucking rocked the debate. Win win win.

  1302. @#2 Tell it!

    I lost 60 lbs this year, and all the haranguing about fat acceptance kept me from doing it sooner. No, society did not tell me I wanted a thinner body. I did want a thinner body. But BBW fans and proud fat folks sure killed my drive to do something about it. For every fat person who bitches about society keeping them from accepting who they are, there’s a person who wants to lose weight who’s being discouraged from becoming who they want to be.

    Also, you’re free to love your own body, but nobody else is obligated to love it. So if someone writes to Dan Savage and says “my partner put on 50 lbs,” I think it’s perfectly reasonable for them to feel annoyed by the bait-&-switch and for Dan to tell them that.

  1303. @#2 Tell it!

    I lost 60 lbs last year, and all the haranguing about fat acceptance kept me from doing it sooner. No, society did not tell me I wanted a thinner body. I did want a thinner body. But BBW fans and proud fat folks sure killed my drive to do something about it. For every fat person who bitches about society keeping them from accepting who they are, there’s a person who wants to lose weight who’s being discouraged from becoming who they want to be.

    Also, you’re free to love your own body, but nobody else is obligated to love it. So if someone writes to Dan Savage and says “my partner put on 50 lbs,” I think it’s perfectly reasonable for them to feel annoyed by the bait-&-switch and for Dan to tell them that.

  1306. Okay…one glass of wine (which really quite fucks me up given my diet and usual consumption) and a cuddly boyfriend later.

    @1304…yes, there might have been one random person who lost a lot of weight eating a very limited caloric diet of all junk. There may have been 100 random people who did this, or 1000, or 10,000…fact is, they’re still a minority of the population. As I understand it, as advised by my dietitian, GP, and endocrinologist, calorie-for-calorie, good, whole foods make you feel fuller, longer, and have a less devastating impact on your insulin response to eating. While the diet I follow is often called “low carb” or “high protein” it’s really just a more natural diet (I don’t mean diet as a limiting of what you eat to lose weight, rather the whole of what you consume…your “diet”). I eat carbs…whole grain things with lots of fiber, vegetables, high-fiber fruits, even. I could even eat the orange I wanted, if I was committed to eating the skin and membranes as well, as that’s where all the fiber and nutrients are (I have a friend who loves baked, salted orange skins, and if I loved them as well, I could have them). Carbs are over 50% of my “diet.” The thing is, each person is different, and other studies have refuted your anecdotal blogger/dietitian. I have friends and family members who can chow down on ice cream and cake and never gain a pound. I have friends who have lost weight on high-carb, low-fat diets. Those things don’t work for me. As for the studies (I’m a well-educated social scientist, so my doctors don’t just tell me what to do, they share the research behind it with me), one thing that has stuck out at me is that to achieve a comfortable life, people need to eat the same *weight* of food. I can sit and eat a whole pound of broccoli or zucchini or peppers and maintain my weight or even lose a bit. But a pound of cake is a problem. I don’t think my “diet” is right for everyone, but Hates Screen Names above is clearly in the same boat that I am, and so I think it’s a more common situation than you might think. Therefore, I don’t judge…I know how hard it was for me, and I don’t wish that on anyone who doesn’t take that on themselves. I will support anyone who wants to do it, and if a friend asks me what I did to lose/maintain the weight, I will tell them to take the same steps I did: get a good medical team who’s willing to make your diet work for you, and accept that you may never be a size 4 (I’m an 8…that’s the thinnest I can be without extreme measures, and so I have learned to love it). But I would never think to snark at someone who I don’t know, or pretend to know what was best for them or what they were doing or going through.

    @1305 and a little @1304…the response you get from others depends on where you are, who you know, and a whole lot of other factors. Fat, medium, and in-between, I have been treated badly by a number of people in my life. Yes, it does appear that there are complex depression/anxiety/physiological issues with carrying extra weight that can make it hard to lose it because of the lack of energy and willpower. But one cannot deny that there are psychological effects from outside sources. Today, my size 8 ass (I really don’t have that much of an ass to speak of, I’m all boobs and muscle at this point) was shunned by someone on public transit. He sat down next to me and made a big show of having to turn his legs out to “fit into the seat.” This despite the fact that I fit quite comfortably in one seat on anything…planes, trains, and automobiles. But I’m no supermodel, and he couldn’t squeeze into his seat and half of mine to continually grab his smart phone (not as smart as mine…old dork man) out of the back of his waistband (W.T.F…shouldn’t you be on that thing constantly, I mean…I had my music playing, was scanning Facebook, and texting and emailing when he sat down…technology deficient loser) and maintain a wide stance. Yes…I DO need that whole one seat…asshole. But that’s only one thing. I have been in social situations where cuter, thinner friends will start talking to a group of people, and when/if I show up in that group, the strangers will literally pretend I don’t exist (and that’s at a horrendously huge size 8…you don’t want to know what happened when I was a 16). I have been shunned more times than I care to remember, and the braver of the shunners told me that it was because I was a lard ass. I guess my point is that if it was really about “health” people would be kinder about it. If I have a fat friend who wants to lose weight, I invite them to go for a walk with me and over for a healthy dinner. I send them “awesome recipes” I found online with no comment about their nutritional value. I tell them that they should see a new doctor if theirs makes disparaging, unhelpful comments about their weight (the proper response is “we could improve your health if you lost a little weight…would you be interested in developing a team to make that happen?” Not, as I have been addressed at my current size by doctors “oh, you clearly don’t go to the gym”). Can depression lead to weight gain? Absolutely. Can weight cause depression? YES, YES, YES. It’s about being helpful and supportive without being an asshole. That’s all I’m saying. I have run into a lot of assholes in my life, and they make me want to give up. I’m lucky that I have wonderful, supportive people in my life to balance that these days, but that wasn’t always the case, at the size I am now and larger. Ever been in a situation where someone will fuck you but not take you out in public? Yes, I know it sounds like an episode of Sex and the City, but it has really, actually happened to me, and it SUCKS! It makes you want to curl up with a cake…which will never leave you.

  1308. If people want to make an issue out of diabetes and obese people, can I PLEASE make an issue out of smokers and lung cancer, drunk drivers, texters, sleepy drivers, inexperienced drivers and car accidents, the babies we all pay for because of unprotected sex, and on and on it goes. Everyone wants to point the finger at fat people cause they wear their differences in public. It’s not like it can be tucked away, in secret. But always remember that you may have one finger pointing outward at me, but you have three more pointing back at yourself.
    Way to go, Lindy. And girl, I would kill for your legs!

  1309. I don’t know if it’s easier or harder to deal with alternating between loving and hating my body. I have only had to live in a ‘fat’ body for the last 10 years (before that I was one of those people who could wear whatever she wanted). I finally got rid of most of my old clothes because, ‘I might fit back into them someday’. I am healthy (although less fit than I desire). I eat good food (sometimes I eat too much good food because well, it’s GOOD!). My dodgy knees keep me from doing things more than my weight does. Hopefully one day I can fully shift into the loving my body phase and stay there. And you know who the main culprit it is that makes me feel horrid again? My damn mother. I love her dearly, but Christ, give it a break mum!

  1311. If that’s the worst Dan has said in relation to obesity, then his fat-hate is being exaggerated. I have never felt the need to bring up other people’s weight – it doesn’t concern me – but if asked I would answer yes, I find very overweight people physically unattractive (which is not to say that some slightly bigger guys can’t be wildly hot). Noone should be made to feel ashamed of who they are (I grew up gay so I experienced plenty of that) but nor do we need to tiptoe around the fact that obesity generally results from consuming more energy than one expends and, as such, is generally avoidable. Does that make me a fat-hater?

  1312. If that’s the worst Dan wrote then his fat-hate is being exaggerated. I don’t think anybody should be made to feel ashamed about things that are beyond their control, and nor have I ever raised another person’s weight in order to praise or ridicule them. If asked, however, I will answer that I find very obese people physically unattractive. I also don’t see any need to tiptoe around the fact that obesity generally results from consuming more energy than one expends and, as such, it is generally avoidable. Does this make me a fat hater?

  1313. I find fat people unattractive. Please do not tell me what to find attractive. I do not care about the health of fat people. They are just fat. Many Americans are fat, but want to be found attractive; they are not, in general.

    When in America, I find it difficult to believe the servings in restaurants. My wife and I often share one serving, while fat people all around us eat these huge amounts, but want to be proud of being fat. Go ahead, but I am allowed to find fat unattractive. You can love it if you want. I do not have to.

    I do not want fat people telling my children that being obese is just fine. It is not. I do not want fat people insisting that those of us who find fat people unattractive are somehow wrong or bad or mean. It is our taste. Dan is right. Rolls of blubber tend to make people look unattractive. I do not want people suggesting to the children of a nation that being obese has no consequences socially. It does.

    I do not think that it is unfair that people have different metabolisms. Own your own. So what if some people can eat a lot and not get fat…What is that to you, if it is not true for you?

    Simple enough? I never have made any comments to fat people or about fat people until I read this rather dunderheaded post of Lindy’s. I am sure that fat people are all very proud. Please accept my congratulations… but do not try to bully me into accepting a huge epidemic of obesity. I find it terrible when a majority of a nation are fat, but claim that it is not their fault…I do not fault you. I just find you unattractive and a bit self-obsessed. Your diets and lifetyle are mostly to blame…Not all of you, but an epidemic of obesity is not constructed individually. Nor is it a moral failing. Nonetheless, you are fat. I also have no moral failing when I do not find you attractive. I may be judgmental, but I am proud of my judgment…In fact, I am a judgment activist (JA).

    Leave me alone, and I will leave you alone. And please stop whining on my favourite blog. And Lindy? if you are so happy with being fat, why are you trying the emotional bullying on Dan? Because you can? Or because you are hurt because deep down you know he is right…I do appreciate that you so much cherish your victimhood, though. I think you may have learned this from Oprah. Please be proud, and stop lashing out publicly, attempting to gain some sympathy.

    “you go, girl” may be one of the most foolish expressions I have heard. Go where? Fatter?
    Go ahead, if that makes you happy. but I do not think it does…does it?

  1315. 5’9″, 263Ib for a man would be disgraceful enough, but for a woman? A woman of 5’9″ should be looking to weigh about 150lb tops.
    Any fat person, male or female who thinks that being fat is not an impediment to being attractive is seriously kidding tthemselves.

  1316. 5’9″, 263Ib for a man would be disgraceful enough, but for a woman? A woman of 5’9″ should be looking to weigh about 150lb tops.
    Any fat person, male or female who thinks that being fat is not an impediment to being attractive is seriously kidding tthemselves.

  1317. @ 399: You do realize the irony in your statement? Lindy’s proclamation of indifference can only come from someone who is clearly OBSESSED about weight. If she didn’t care, this post would not exist.

    And all the people saying she’s not fat? Yes, she is. The truly scary thing about America is how overweight people are, how unhealthy it is, and how willing people are to dismiss it. Disturbing.

  1318. Ok. You’re fat. Big fucking deal. At least you’re not stuck in some Arab country, being killed simply because you want democratic freedoms. Try worrying about a real problem. Ranting about your appearance & particularly how you allow other people make you feel because of your appearance is just stupid shit drivel.

  1319. Goodness people

    Forget the fat and learn to write without the use of the boring f word.

    Our bodies are nothing.

    How is your spiritual health.

    Life IS eternal after all.

  1320. Sorry, Lindy, but somebody who thinks that boiling water poured on a man’s penis is “hilarious” — and then adds insult to injury by referring to the dick in question as very small three different times in only one paragraph — hasn’t really got a moral high ground to stand on vis-a-vis respect for others in print. You’ve gone all noble on Savage for, in your view, dissing heavy people. What would your reaction have been if he had found, say, pouring boiling water on a breasts to have been hilarious and reveled in the fact that the injured titties were small?

    http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/penis&hellip;

  1321. @113 – yes. I was working out 1.5 hours to 2 hours per day, eating as a nutritionist prescribed, and I lost weight. I lost 67 lbs, to be exact. Which got me down to 212 lbs. Where I stayed. Then, when I began to GAIN weight doing that exact same thing, I went to the best weight loss doc/endocrinologist in this Metroplex, who told me, based on his multiple tests, that I simply had the Fat Gene. The people in my family are thin/average kids, slightly thick teenagers, and balloon in early adulthood. We CAN lose weight, but never ever enough weight to be considered thin. We can get THINNER, but not thin. I, too, have a thyroid condition. It’s like fighting the tides to remain in the slightly-above-200-lbs category for me, but I do feel better and healthy at that weight, and I can fit in airplane seats just fine, eff you very much. I am strong, healthy, smart, funny and compassionate. And I am beautiful, inside and out, at any size.

  1322. People just don’t seem to get it AT ALL. I bet we could hit 5K on these comments and people still wouldn’t get it.

    Other people’s bodies are NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. It’s not your business to police other people’s weight. YOU don’t get to dictate how other people live their lives and that includes what they eat, what they wear, how much they weigh, etc. If you don’t like it, SO WHAT!?! Who put you in charge? Every single policeman or hall monitor on this site needs to look in the mirror and manage their own life. I mean, for example, Robert K who made you the arbiter of what a woman should weigh if she’s 5’9″? Your comment is absurd and you obviously know NOTHING about what real people weigh. At my thinnest as an adult (and I am 5’5″) I weighed 165 and everyone raved about how thin I was. I looked and felt VERY thin. People thought I weighed 120 pounds. They have NO CONCEPT OF REAL WEIGHT. I wore a size 10. A size 0 is the size of a six year old child, people!!!

    No matter how unhealthy obesity is (and no one here, including Lindy, including myself is saying obesity is healthy) it is still NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS UNLESS YOU ARE DISCUSSING YOUR OWN WEIGHT. It is unbelievable how and why people think they have a right to talk to other people about their bodies (maybe, just MAYBE you have that right if you are in a relationship with that person or that person is your child or your parent or other family – but that’s a big maybe). I don’t care if you lost weight. I don’t care if you think it’s easy to lose weight. I don’t care if it pisses you off that you have to severely restrict your caloric intake and exercise excessively in order to fit into your skinny jeans – you don’t get to turn around and take it out on someone who is fat that just happens to be next to you. You need to mind your own fucking business and leave people alone.

    We live in a society that has and continues to insist that women’s bodies are public and fit for public consumption and comment. They are not. My body doesn’t exist for you to look at and get off on. If you don’t like how I look FUCK YOU. You have no right to tell me I need to lose weight or exercise to an extent that meet YOUR criteria. Again, who the hell put you in charge? Mind your own damn business. Focus on yourself. Obsess about your own weight.

    The only person that needs to worry about what I am eating and how much I exercise and how much I weigh and how healthy or unhealthy I am is ME. You pointing out how fat I am (in your eyes) and how I don’t need to be eating whatever it is you see me eating that you think I shouldn’t be eating is completely out of line. I’ve said it so much that I feel like a broken record (and it’s the main point of Lindy’s article) – shaming people will not solve the obesity crisis. Bullying people, ostracizing people, discriminating against people, railing against people, hating people, lecturing people, yelling at people, etc. etc. etc. WILL NOT SOLVE THE OBESITY CRISIS.

    Yes, people need to eat differently and to include more physical activity (not just exercise, but physical activity) in their daily lives. The food industry needs to be completely changed so that selling addictive and poisonous crap for profit is no longer acceptable. We can all agree on that. But beyond that? What people weigh and how healthy people are is extremely personal and can only be dealt with on a personal basis by each individual focusing on themselves. Everyone needs to keep their mouths shut when it comes to talking about other people. If you don’t find fat people attractive, don’t date or fuck them. If you don’t like fat people and think fat is contagious – don’t be friends with fat people. Focus on your own life and live your life as you please AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD OR THE UNIVERSE OR WHATEVER LEAVE EVERYONE ELSE ALONE AND LET THEM DO THE SAME.

    Why is this such a difficult concept for people to grasp?

  1324. Lindy, you are gorgeous. Also, was it not you who received that neighbor complaint about loud sex? So obviously someone else thinks you’re gorgeous and sexy too.

    But (you knew it was coming) I am a formerly obese – still hit the BMI at “overweight” after losing 75 lbs – and I was miserable at my previous weight. My knees hurt constantly. I couldn’t sleep on my stomach (like sleeping on the peak of a mountain) and I love to sleep on my stomach. I was so ashamed to shop that I had nothing but old, poorly fitting clothes, universally in black (oh it’s SOOO slimming).

    Now I get up at 5 a.m. and work out every day. Seriously, every day. Last year I scored a sweet work out bag from the Y for working out at least 200 days. I rode the STP last year for the first time. And I’m 46 fucking years old. Yes, I totally rock. I’m awesome. My shit don’t stank no more (actually it totally stinks worse).

    But my point is, I hated myself fat. I tried to work it through and love me the way I was (and congrats for making it there Lindy, cause that journey has it’s own challenges). I had PLENTY of reasons for packing on the pounds – I had a kid with cancer for fuck sake, who ended up pretty seriously disabled, and a failed marriage. So lots and lots of reasons for stress eating/no time to take care of me. And as I mentioned, I’m fucking old.

    But again, I hated myself fat, even with those quite-legitimate excuses. So if there’s someone out there reading this and thinking, geesh I should get on the fat-acceptance thing and stop hating myself. Well, yeah, but if that doesn’t work for you (still hate shopping for clothes, still ashamed to go to parties?) then my message is, CHANGE IS POSSIBLE.

    Was it hard? Kind of. I didn’t start working out every day. I set a 3X a week goal. I only do exercises that I enjoy (for me that’s a lot of rowing in and out of the gym, biking out of the gym – gawd I hate the stationery bike – and the eliptical cause it’s easy on my knees and I can read a book while I’m standing there, and I love to read).

    And I found a diet that worked for me. There’s a key: screw the “latest” advice, find what actually works for you, whether that is Mediterranean, Atkins, Vegan, food-diary, obsessive counting of calories or whatever. Learn to LISTEN TO YOUR VERY OWN BODY and figure out what makes you feel good and what you can maintain. And then get moving so you’re burning up more calories each day than you put in. Take all those measurements (OH not my waist! That’s so humiliating) so you have the total before/after picture and not just the scale. Give it a month. Seriously give it a fucking month of doing it right and then ask yourself, do I feel better? Have those bloody numbers changed?

    But don’t do any of this for “society” or “Lindy” or “Dan Savage.” Do it for yourself. Do it because maintaining your big body is harder emotionally than working to get it off. And if that’s not true, then fuck every one and be big and beautiful, again, for yourself.

  1325. @1330 – Amen to people having no idea about weight. I’m 5’9″ and when I got my weight down to 195, I was still high up in the “overweight” category on the BMI chart, but people started telling me it was time to stop dieting because I looked like I had cancer.

  1326. lol vouching for fatness by blaming disease must mean we are a nation full of diseased mutants.

    fat people are unhealthy , skinny people are normal

    face it – your skeleton is small , a normal body isnt supposed to differentiate too much from that.

    instead yours has football padding and a hoodie on and you claim it as fine.

  1327. Way to take Dan out of context and make him your scapegoat so you can justify being overweight. Unless you have a medical condition or are on medications with weight gaining side effects, you can absolutely lose the weight. And exercising in itself won’t do anything if you aren’t doing the right exercises. And ‘eating healthy’ in our society- all those fad diets and bullshit- can actually lead to more weight gain. Get your exercise program and diet to be the right one for you, and you won’t be obese. And lindy, you are a bitch for ragging on Dan for no good reason other than your own ignorance!

  1328. Look, it is great to not feel ashamed of your body. I want that for everyone. But being obese is caused by addiction (either through neglect by not exercising or by poisoning yourself with food). Addictions are sad, gross, and hard to watch. It makes me feel sad and disgusted to watch an obese person shove a donut into their mouth. I feel the same way about a smoker puffing away on a cigarette. Lindy, you GLOAT about having an unhealthy body. That is so disturbing.
    Unless you have a medical condition that causes weight gain (like low thyroid), then you are only enabling yourself and others by claiming that you are naturally obese.
    Cruel remarks towards fat people are awful and should not be condoned, but I think everyone has the right to voice being disgusted by looking at bodies ravaged by addiction. Dan wasn’t picking on fat people, he was pointing out that obesity, like any addiction, is disgusting.

  1329. I’m glad you’ve decided to accept yourself. No one should feel ashamed about themselves. But also accept that short of some medical condition such as thyroid disease, you are fat because you eat bad food and/or you don’t get enough exercise, and only you have control over that.

    Once upon a time I was in fantastic shape. I worked out 3-4 days a week and I was careful about what I ate. I didn’t kill myself. Just steady workouts and every now and then I did indulge in a pizza or burger, but I did not eat them regularly. Then I got lazy, quit working out, and started making too many runs through the fast food drive-through. Within 2 years I’d packed on 50 lbs. So a few months ago after almost a decade of slugdom, I decided it was time to get off my backside and exercise, and quit shoveling high-fat food into my mouth. Within a month I’d lost 13 lbs. And I’m a woman pushing 50 years of age. It ain’t easy, but it can be done.

    I’m sorry people treat overweight people badly. I know it doesn’t help anything. And I do now what it feels like to know that your attractive friend standing next to you is getting way more attention than you are at happy hour. If you or anyone else is truly happy with your size, more power to you. But just as shaming fat people isn’t going to make them lose weight, telling the world to fuck off isn’t going to change the fact that most people find fit bodies to be more attractive. If you really intend to be happy in an overweight body, you’re going to have to ignore most of the world, because it isn’t going to change.

    For me, it became a matter of health. I don’t want to spend the remainder of my life popping pills and/or living with a walker or a wheelchair just because I had no will power when I was younger. I’d kind of like to enjoy my retirement. It isn’t rocket science. To lose weight, consume fewer calories than you spend. Learn to find pleasure in something besides food, TV, and other passive activity. It is a huge mental exercise, but it is just that, a mental hurdle to conquer before you can conquer they physical one. Even losing 13 lbs. feels great. Losing 40 more is going to be amazing.

  1331. I’m glad you’ve decided to accept yourself. No one should feel ashamed about themselves. But also accept that short of some medical condition such as thyroid disease, you are fat because you eat bad food and/or you don’t get enough exercise, and only you have control over that.

    Once upon a time I was in fantastic shape. I worked out 3-4 days a week and I was careful about what I ate. I didn’t kill myself. Just steady workouts and every now and then I did indulge in a pizza or burger, but I did not eat them regularly. Then I got lazy, quit working out, and started making too many runs through the fast food drive-through. Within 2 years I’d packed on 50 lbs. So a few months ago after almost a decade of slugdom, I decided it was time to get off my backside and exercise, and quit shoveling high-fat food into my mouth. Within a month I’d lost 13 lbs. And I’m a woman pushing 50 years of age. It ain’t easy, but it can be done.

    I’m sorry people treat overweight people badly. I know it doesn’t help anything. And I do now what it feels like to know that your thinner friend standing next to you is getting way more attention than you are at happy hour. If you or anyone else is truly happy with your size, more power to you. But just as shaming fat people isn’t going to make them lose weight, telling the world to fuck off isn’t going to change the fact that most people find fit bodies to be more attractive. If you really intend to be happy in an overweight body, you’re going to have to ignore those people, because they aren’t going to change.

    For me, it became a matter of health. I’m not going for size 4, I’m going for size fit. I don’t want to spend the remainder of my life popping pills and/or living with a walker or a wheelchair that I could have prevented, just because I had no will power when I was younger. I’d kind of like to enjoy my retirement. It isn’t rocket science. To lose weight, consume fewer calories than you spend. Learn to find pleasure in something besides food and passive entertainment. It is a huge mental exercise, but it is just that, a mental hurdle to conquer before you can conquer they physical one. No food is enjoyable as being healthy feels.

  1336. To all the obese people who “can’t” lose weight although they have tried “everything” … you might want to start an investigation into what has caused this obesity epidemic. If you look at the data, you will see that the number of people who are obese has TRIPLED in the past fifty years. If this is primarily due to uncontrollable circumstances rather than lifestyle choices, then SOMEONE NEEDS TO PAY!! Something, somewhere, must have gone very wrong in our medical and agricultural worlds for so many people to have been blessed/cursed with obesity.

    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/over&hellip;

    On the other hand, if you believe like me that the vast MAJORITY (not all) of obese people are a creation of their own choices regarding food consumption and physical activity, then you will simply acknowledge that you choose to be obese for reasons that you don’t have to justify to anyone. You like riding in your car everywhere rather than walking. You like eating a donut for breakfast or hitting up McD’s for lunch. And if the result is that you are 5′ 9″ and weigh 263 pounds, then that’s okay, too. But PLEASE don’t bore me with the fairytale about how it is simply your “metabolism” that has caused the obesity, because I frankly don’t believe that three times as many people have faulty metabolisms today as in 1960.

    And by the way, extreme obesity which 5′ 9″ and 263 pounds qualifies for, went from 0.9% of the population in 1960 to 6.2% in 2006. Again, unless you believe that some environmental evil has caused extreme obesity to jump to 7x its previous level, then you have to conclude that most of those people have made lifestyle choices that get them there. I am not arguing they should be sent to fat camp. They don’t have to discuss this personal matter, but it they do I just want them to stop the incessant “metabolism” excuses and acknowledge their choice.

  1337. I am personally looking at severe health issues for NOT having lost weight and it crept up & up, now its 100lbs I need to lose! Never mind how it looks., its a HEALTH risk! Fat around the midsection endangers internal organs..eventually they can shut down and then..well you can imagine! I hate to say it, but it can lead to death!! I did not know nor understand much about such things before, but now that I do, it is like too little, too late..as has already happened to me, although Im fighting back any way that I can.,
    it may not matter now, to people whom are overweight, and Ive seen very young gals that continue to eat like they’re not fat, but it WILL later when its too late. Do NOT keep letting excuses rob you of years of life., currently according to some tests, such as at REALAGEdotcom, I stand to lose about 16yrs of life!..do not let other peoples opinions matter so much that you just rebel by NOT losing., come on! The only person hurt is yourself., the life you lose, is the only one you’ll ever have (or not have).

  1338. An unprofessional and overly emotional attack on your colleague; shame on you, Lindy. You are apparently so emotional over this subject that you are misunderstanding Dan Savages’ posts on this topic.

    There are very few people in the world that fall into the category of “impossible to lose weight”. I do know one person like this, who has a hormonal problem that is the cause (and even gastric bypass surgery didn’t work). I admire that she’s learned to love and accept her body and feel attractive, and I hope you reach this point as well, if this is the category that you put yourself into.

    Most people who are overweight just really haven’t put the effort into the right places – lifestyle changes are very difficult to stick with, especially when one needs to leave behind something that has served as a comfort. It can be done, though. I am 5’2 and went from being 170 to 130, about 5 years ago… I never thought I would be able to lose weight, but I also never realized that I’d never stuck with something long enough to see the results – I’d give up prematurely and say I couldn’t lose weight and was never going to be thin. My beloved aunt died at the age of 50 about 15 years ago; she’d reached about 700 pounds and had not left the house during the last 10 years of her life. She refused to talk about her weight with anyone, and cut people out who tried to help. Defending herself didn’t help herself; she died and hurt everyone in her family, including me.

    I hope you will find the strength to lose the weight you need to lose in order to feel good about yourself, or that if you aren’t able to do it for whatever reason, that you reach a point of acceptance about your body. Instead of attacking Dan Savage for his refreshingly honest comments about the obesity epidemic (which are NOT attacks on the obese; you have clearly misunderstood), you should ask him for his help in finding a community where you can meet men who find you beautiful just the way you are.

    –Sincerely, A Reader

  1339. No way will I read all these comments, and neither will you probably, but in case no one has said it yet, which probably 600 or so already have, Lindy, you are fuckin’ HOT!

    Rowr!

  1341. It shouldn’t be about how FAT looks, but what it does to a body! Quit focusing on what people think about how it looks and think about the damage to internal organs, a fatty midsection actually does, it’d be best to focus on educating oneself about this., because as I am founding out perhaps a little too late, is that by not having lost weight way long ago, I have done myself a disfavor. I may have lost several years of life. I see soo many young beautiful girls today, weighing at least 50-100lbs more than they should. Of course, they may not yet feel the damage that is being done, but it WILL come., I am testament of that., and that is considering that I did not even start getting overweight until my mid-30’s., so that makes about 20yrs now., not only that, my heavy drinking did even less favors to my health., now I am diabetic, Ive always had high blood pressure which NEVER was stable., and how could it be with all that drinking? Id forget to take my meds, etc.etc., I have been my own worst enemy while taking care of everyone BUT me., Next time you look at a fat person as someone despicable, instead…think of how much they must already hate themselves., they don’t need YOUR hate added to the mix. They already know., and I heavily caution those whom are overweight, and don’t do anything about it, to do themselves a favor, TODAY, since we all know that that wonderful creamy delicious ice cream doesn’t taste as good as would a NICE trim HEALTHY figure.
    NOW IF WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN IS CONSIDERED “HATE MAIL” WELL then that is just another excuse, because I have already stated that I am also very much overweight, about 100lbs, and the way it looks is less important that doing something about it., yes I know that some gals have tried, (so have I) and failed, over and over., I am not putting them down or I’d be doing the same to myself., got it? BUT, I can say that HONESTY is critical., HONESTLY I didn’t lose weight and I can blame noone but myself., I hate the word TRY..because it leaves the possibility of failure., what IS imperative is that whatever it is that is started, MUST be followed to its end., and I haven’t done that., so how smart is it to start a program, and then STOP? Just because it isn’t happening fast enough? Come on..if I had stuck with all the programs I started, I’d of lost all of my weight ten years ago! Fat girls, or guys, lets be HONEST for once., tempation has been stronger than resolve to lose., is a FACT., and olny YOU can change that., dont blame others that dislike how you look, forget them! Remember YOU.

  1347. I don’t mean to step on toes here, but, it seems like male body image issues are pretty invisible.

    I know objectification can be bad, but, you know, I bet it feels nice to know that someone likes how you look.

  1348. Late to the party, but Lindy you’re awesome. I know you know you’re awesome and I’ve always thought you were awesome, but this post makes you even more awesome (I have just learned that this is possible! MIND BLOWN!!!).

    Also @1326 – I bet you’re one of those people who get upset when people smile because there are starving children and how can one be happy when innocents are suffering, M I RITE? Fucking douchebag.

  1353. Love it, you’ve said it all. I concur being kind, sensitive, encouraging and supportive of oursleves and others is practicing good mental health habits. So important in overall scheme of things. Stay amazing

  1355. It seems that being listed on the most commented list is a source of some pride for Stranger writers. But I noticed that this post doesn’t appear on the most commented list anymore. Why?

  1356. @922: You are assuming that all fat people are fat b/c they overeat, are addicted to food, or don’t know/care about health risks. I think that if people continually respond to Lindy’s article by focusing on the health risks of being overweight, they are continually missing the point of her article; I do not think that you as an individual with overweight friends (thanks for qualifying your authority on the matter!) are not empathetic. And as I emphasized before, I know, WE ALL are aware of the health concerns, so let’s please move on to the actual point of Lindy’s article…

    which is about the social consequences of being overweight in America, and how discrimination against overweight people is often masked simply as “health concerns”. Loving one’s body, being loved, finding happiness, enjoying life, etc etc should never be directly tied to being thin.

  1358. Wow. Thank you. I truly needed this post today. Thank you for sticking up for the voiceless women who don’t know yet how much our society is hurting them and are still stuck in the shame-cycle. The young girls who have never been told that they are anything but fat and need to lose weight to be loved, be successful, be happy. For those of us who are older and should know better, but still struggle under the burden of being “too fat” in this society. Thank you for reminding me that my resolve to “not care” has been shaky as of late and providing a much needed boost.

  1359. Point of order, 254 – gay men suffer from this as intensely as women, because we are BOTH trying to attract men (or a reasonable facsimile thereof).

    Until those of us who don’t mind being large finally stopped listening to people who wanted to tell us how we had to look. I’m full on with Lindy on this – and I’m glad she’s come to this same conclusion. No one gets to tell us who we have to be.

  1360. Lindy is sexy, and I would love to do it to her all day, and all damn night long… HARD! I would totally pound her pussy into submission, and obliterate it, and de-fucking-STROY it, Baby! YEAH!

  1361. Lindy West is sexy, and I would love to do it to her all day, and all damn night long… HARD! I would totally pound her pussy into submission, and obliterate it, and de-fucking-STROY it, Baby! YEAH!

  1362. I found this linked through someone else’s blog and I appreciate this so much. I was a dancer most of my young life and being slender was a big deal in that world. I was always bigger, but I could dance just as well as the rest of them. In fact, I often won performance awards over the skinnier girls.
    I started university this year and gained the freshman fifteen. I was having a really bad “fat day” today, but reading this made me realize how much bullshit there is out there about weight. I am healthy, I am just not stick thin.
    Thank you thank you thank you. You are gorgeous inside and out.

  1363. does he think he’s winning by not giving in? by pretending he didn’t mean that? why doesn’t he just fucking say he was wrong. why doesn’t he just thank you for bringing this perspective. he’s not winning, you just won, game, set, match. it was a privilege to read this post, you are an inspiration

  1364. I think I am a johnny-come-lately, and admit to not having read Savage’s response to this trulty wonderful post (thanks Lindy!), but, while I think it is good to call out the asshole-in-chief, er, editor of our favorite local gossip rag, I think that if we look at Dan’s reactions to fat people, trans people, and other folks that don’t fit Dan’s privileged, liberal world.

    The idea that people can just try harder, the bootstrap mythos, works really well for those who are no longer quite facing as much oppression as they used to be facing. It is, and always has been really nice to feel like we are better than someone, anyone, else. This is built in to the logic of capitalism, and Dan (and the stranger) certainly want nothing to do with actually confronting that.

    Is this a comment on your post or just hate mail for Dan Savage and the Stranger? I don’t know or care. But I appreciate your having written what you’ve written Lindy, and please keep it up.

  1365. Wow! This is so inspiring! As an overweight woman myself, I have only ever been critiqued and bullied about my figure; even from friends and family. Every day of my life is spent with my own mum telling me how no one in society will accept me because of my unnatural figure. I have to thank you greatly for posting this, and giving me a new insight onto how to live my life. If only people understood that big people need love and not criticism everyday of their lives…

  1366. How is being gay not a choice? If you’re a man, don’t have sex with men, have sex with women instead. If you’re a woman, don’t have sex with women, have sex with men instead. Where is the trick? So you may still have feelings that go against nature, like eating when you’re fat goes against nature. If you’re hungry, don’t act on it–you can be normal If you’re gay–don’t act on it, you can be normal.

  1367. Thank you – thank you – thank you Lindy. I wish all teenaged girls who listen to the bullshit and start killing themselves to fit the ideal could read this – and be free from the amount of unchecked stupid that exists in this society.

  1368. no,that’s not true.Im sorry but I really tried it,like you said I tried diets whole my life.Im only 19 and sometimes I stop and ask myself : Why do I have to suffer so much just because I love eating things.Im not a girl who eats everything she finds,or too many food.I just love high calory things,junk food too much.Its like I’ve been trapped.And last year I said I quit,I just quit.And guess what happens ? another 20 pounds,cracks all over my body,I cant roll my sleeves.My feet does have a problem with bearing me all day,they sometimes hurt.What should I do ? I quit and eat and the result : ı am UNHAPPY.I diet all the time and the result is i am UNHAPPY.sometimes I just want to close myself somewhere and wait there until I die.

  1369. Know what? Fuck fat acceptance! You don’t have to accept that your fat. I was pretty fat last summer, weighing in at 235 lbs at 5’11”. When I took off my shirt I looked like a fucking beached whale and people would look at me and laugh. One day I took a long look at myself in the mirror and realized the person that I saw was not who I wanted to be. I decided to run every day, lift weights and eat properly and guess what? I lost weight, I got smaller, and life did get better. When you finally realize you can’t live life to the fullest when you are as overweight as you probably are then maybe you can achieve what you never even thought was possible before.

  1370. THANK YOU, LINDY!!! THAT WAS THE MOST INFLUENTIAL YET NON-PERSONAL BIT OF WISDOM THAT I’VE HEARD IN YEARS!!!! KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK & CONTINUE TO ENCOURAGE THOSE OF US THAT NEEDED THAT INSPIRATIONAL VITAMIN!!!! XO!!!

  1371. Really great post. Weight is weight and health is something else. Dan Savage has some real issues – I honestly don’t think he likes women very much, or bisexuals for that matter. I personally can say for sure that when I was thinner, I was much *less* healthy because it was the result of an exercise disorder, and I think some of the points you make are really relevant about how we treat our bodies and how they have to be able to support us through life. I also know from experience that life isn’t necessarily better and doesn’t start when we’re *thin* – it’s a myth we even sometimes buy when we lose weight and then blame ourselves if everything else isn’t fixed. It sells products, but creates unreasonable expectations.

  1372. Really great post. Weight is weight and health is something else. Dan Savage has some real issues – I honestly don’t think he likes women very much, or bisexuals for that matter. I personally can say for sure that when I was thinner, I was much *less* healthy because it was the result of an exercise disorder, and I think some of the points you make are really relevant about how we treat our bodies and how they have to be able to support us through life. I also know from experience that life isn’t necessarily better and doesn’t start when we’re *thin* – it’s a myth we even sometimes buy when we lose weight and then blame ourselves if everything else isn’t fixed. It sells products, but creates unreasonable expectations.

  1374. I love it. Shame is NOT helping. I smoked for 20 years, and once I got over the shame that went with it, I quit. Cold turkey. No side effects, help, gum, chews, support groups… nothing. I didn’t even put on (more) weight.

    I am also overweight. I don’t hate myself for it, but I do want to change because it stops me from being physically able to do things that I want to do. But I was doing it wrong. I can’t be ashamed.

    Thanks.

  1375. I can’t believe the hypocrisy of this:
    “It’s my body, I don’t have to justify its awesomeness/attractiveness/healthiness/usefulness to anyone, because it is MINE”
    Why are you writing the article then?!
    You aren’t even a good writer; your review of ‘Synecdoche, New York’ cemented you as a brick in the wall of the greatest idiots that publication has ever known.

  1378. You shouldn’t accept being fat because IT IS a health risk. And you are killing yourself. And the only thing I am disgusted with is your ignorance. Good for you to be happy in your own skin but lose weight for your health not for looks. And of course their are people out there that think it is disgusting to be overweight. So suck it up and stop trying to be proud. Do what is best for yourself and stop thinking about others.

  1380. I know that your goal is not to win other people’s approval, and you in no way need me to say this, but I’m jealous of your ankles. Just sayin’. And I’m being totally serious, because I am not fat, but I do have cankles.

    (I agree with your point, and I’m happy you are happy with yourself. The world would be a better place if everyone could just love themselves. Then they could love other people too.)

  1382. I used to be so skinny – then I had a hysterectomy. I started taken hormone replacements and gained weight…..but still looked good. Then I developed arthritis and could not walk as much as I had before, could NOT LONGER RUN, or work out like I had…began having to take steroids at times, which pack the pounds on me…I became depressed and started taking antidepressants, which added pounds onto my body, I was anxious, so I started taking valium, which I think adds pounds, due to stress, I noticed I was wanting to snack a lot more, even when I was not hungry…….before I knew it, I am at 180 pounds. I weigh more than my boyfriend does and he is about 8 inches taller than I am. I hate being FAT…but I can see my life illnesses/medication has played a big part in that. SOOO, now it is my mission to stop taking as many meds as I can – especially the steroids…that is a given…they always add 5 to 10 pounds that are so hard to get off…..pain meds slow me down, BUT….if I could lose 50 pounds I probably would not need the pain pills. I called my insurance company today to see about lap band surgery. I am under the BMI just barely, but they have to pay more out in ankle surgery, may need my other ankle done, who knows about my back…I have had a heart attack and have high blood pressure and high cholesterol….I do not even take the meds for all of that as I can’t afford all the meds I NEED…but if my BMI was just a little bit higher, I could get the lapband…is so stupid!!!

  1383. I’m a million years late to the fray.

    But 263 pounds is too much; that much weight will definitely kill you before you are ready for it.

  1384. You’re right, diets don’t work.

    Lifestyle changes do.

    You shouldn’t have to settle for being overweight and the health problems that come along with it. One of my good friends has been borderline obese his entire life, and was fine with it, until he went to the doctor who told him that he was pre-diabetic.

    He made the effort to join weight watchers, is going to the gym regularly, and is pulling himself back from the brink of “pre-diabetes”.

    You can’t just starve yourself for a certain amount of time to lose weight, and expect to go back to the way you do things now and expect to keep that off.

    The way I see it, being healthy is not about how much you weigh, but about how you treat your body. Treat it well, feed it healthy things in healthy amounts, exercise it, and it will be good to you. You don’t have to be stick thin or toned up the wazoo to be healthy. But being overweight is never healthy. Examine your lifestyle and start making little changes to it. Changes that you will stick to. THAT works. Diets don’t.

  1385. The more overweight people insist publicly that they love their bodies and they don’t need to apologize for it, the more self-conscious it makes them look.

    And quit aligning yourself with homosexuals – people are BORN gay! There’s no comparison. It’s not your sexuality, it’s fat. You can do something about it. Why don’t you have empathy for gay people and NOT compare being a size 14 to being denied basic human rights by your own government?

    Quit contributing to this ever-growing culture of victimhood. You now represent the majority of Americans, so you’re not a minority, and you’re annoying the crap out of those of us who don’t want an entire generation eating their way to premature death.

  1386. The more overweight people insist publicly that they love their bodies and they don’t need to apologize for it, the more self-conscious it makes them look.

    And quit aligning yourself with homosexuals – people are BORN gay! There’s no comparison. It’s not your sexuality, it’s fat. You can do something about it. Why don’t you have empathy for gay people and NOT compare being a size 14 to being denied basic human rights by your own government?

    Quit contributing to this ever-growing culture of victimhood. You now represent the majority of Americans, so you’re not a minority, and you’re annoying the crap out of those of us who don’t want an entire generation eating their way to premature death.

  1387. Lindy, thank you. I have struggled with my self esteem about my weight gain since I quit dancing and I always feel like people are staring at me and making fun of me. I’m not that large at all in comparison to how tall I am, but the gain was hard for me because I was literally small enough to fit in 00 pants and extra small shirts until I was 12. It wasn’t until recently when my friend yelled at me for being so down on myself that I realized that the way I was thinking was destructive. This article has helped further that understanding that all women are made differently and there is really no specific shape that is deemed most beautiful in the world. I don’t care what others say, especially those negative people who have to cut down others to feel better about themselves. Every woman is beautiful the way they are and it has nothing to do with the size of your jeans but everything to do with the person you are in that body. Thank you for helping me on my journey to accepting myself. You are a beautiful person.

  1389. I have an issue with the whole pro-fat, fat acceptance movement. Fat acceptance gives people the idea that its okay to be fat and let yourself go- yes, there are people who are predispositioned to be overweight and probably cannot change it but to be honest if you look at the statistics obesity in the 1st world is a modern phenomenon of being surrounded by calorie rich, nutrient deficient food and gorging on it. Poor people in america are more likely to be fat than wealthier people because they don’t take care of themselves and buy crap. its not healthy to be quite frank, and promoting fat acceptance in my book is like promoting diabetes acceptance- its not okay, both obesity and diabetes are preventable diseases (two very interdependent ones I might add.) People are ashamed of being diabetic and most diabetics cannot change their disposition but what got them there for the most part is just letting themselves go, not disciplining themselves, or their kids, and they now are stuck and are embarrassed with themselves. if you’re all about the pro-fat shit you’re just kidding yourself just to make you feel better about yourself. It’s not an issue about “society’s body image” pro fat pro skinny blahablah, its about being healthy and not slowly killing yourself.
    Obesity is not a maybekindof subjective label to make people feel bad about themselves- its a real life disease that leads to heart failure, kidney failure, strokes, diabetes upon a whole slew of things. you can’t tell me 60 percent of the population suddenly popped up a thyroid issue- the issue is with the person themselves.
    Pro-fat is cute when you’re a teenager and gorge on “Doritos” and just get chubbier with no consequences but when you’re 60 and being hauled in the back of an ambulance because your heart can barely pump blood through your 300 lbs, you’re not going to be complaining about fat shaming; its going to be able how hard it is to catch your breath or the 3 page list of medications you take for your condition. Its not funny and I am not trying to sass, I see too many people sent to the hospital for completely preventable conditions. Take care of yourselves, and good luck in the future.

  1390. I have the combo of qualities that made it easier for me to lose weight: perfectionism and an ability to delay gratification. Except I realized that I will never be happy, now that I am “skinny”: I ALWAYS delay happiness. I can’t relax and enjoy life. So being skinny didn’t make me happy. It just brought out those control freak aspects of my personality, and I can’t get rid of them. I can’t drink a glass of wine or enjoy Sunday pancakes without worrying about WHAT IT MEANS for my body. Why am I so afraid of weighing a normal weight? I think all people are beautiful, and I actually think that people that aren’t stick thin are more beautiful and sexy. But obviously I am somehow affected by some weird motivation to be fat-less. I don’t think that this is “healthier” than being overweight…

    I spend more time thinking and worrying about my weight than doing anything useful. What a waste.

    I am so jealous of you for loving your body and your self.

  1392. I am female. 26 years old. I weighted 212lbs three years ago.
    Then I became vegan. I did’t eat less, but other things. In the first year I lost 21lbs. Slowly.
    Second year I started jogging. Every day – half hour.
    Today my weight is 156lbs.

    Sorry, my english is not the best. 🙂

  1393. Would people please stop making the false assumption that weight loss is simple? It is actually far from it.
    Yes, I understand that Shape magazine and Men’s Health have told you that all you need to worry about it calories in and calories out. As others have pointed out this is hardly a valuable tool for a diverse population- different individuals will have different resting metabolisms which will significantly impact whether out not the calories in, calories out method works.
    Step away from the calories. For example, consider how successful paleo, primal and low carb diets have been for some even though they are can be incredibly high in calories, particularly from fats and proteins.
    That being said, there is no simple SUSTAINABLE solution to weight loss that is applicable at a systemic level. And weight is a poor correlate for overall health. Don’t believe me, research the sketchy history of the Body Mass Index (BMI) which incidentally was never intended to be a diagnostic of individual health but a measure of a populations health.
    Health is a subjective product. When the National Institutes of Health modified the “overweight” category in the body mass index in 1997, millions of Americans became obese overnight. Before this shift, according to the BMI, 68 million were overweight or obese; after, that number increased to 96 million.
    This is not to say that good health is not a goal worth pursuing, which I don’t believe to be Lindy’s point either. But rather “health” is not a universal medical truth, it means different things for different people.Health does not have a direct relationship with weight but rather blood pressure, blood sugar etc. and other measures that CORRELATE (but do not demonstrate direct causal relationship with weight). Therefore get off your effing high horse, and stop making poor presumptions about others health based solely on what the media has told you (when you have done no research or have only your own singular experience experiences to rely on because anecdotes are not science).

    Show a little love.

    Beautiful post Lindy and something that should resonate with everyone, regardless of size.

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  1397. Sorry, but, as has been stated in previous comments, you can’t compare prejudice towards fat people to prejudice towards gay people. Fat people aren’t raped and killed for because they are fat. Fat people can marry. Fat people don’t suffer from institutionalized hate and discrimination. And most of all, fat people can stop being fat, while gay people cannot stop being gay. Your completely fixable weight problem can’t be compared to the struggle of the LGBT community.

    And if someone is grossed out by your disgusting fat rolls and thinks they are ugly, that’s their right, just like it’s your right to be fat should you choose.

  1399. Your body is not disgusting, just as long as you keep it well-clothed (i.e. covered). You are, however, sexually useless, unattractive, a wobbling waddling blimpy-the-beluga-land-whale.

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