Presumably in response to this (though this must be an old anger, considering Josh Feit hasn’t worked at The Stranger since last spring), a reader writes:
I’m really sick of Erica Barnett, Josh Feit and the whole pack of pro-density, eco-nazis at The Stranger. You all came here from somewhere else, and you all want this place to be some kind of “green” version of New York. Despite all your years of howling and hand-wringing, despite all your pro-transit rants and your bike lane bullshit, it’s NOT!
If you like big, overcrowded, noisy, expensive East Coast cities so much, why don’t you go fucking live there!! Stop trying to jam that shit down our throats!
Fuck the whole bunch of you.
Jef Jaisun
Green before you were born, beyatches!
In other news: I miss Josh Feit.
@44 for the slashdot open source commenting win.
hint – only registered users can mod and metamod.
oh and sod off Just Sayin’ – we don’t go griping about Kirkland’s zoning codes.
@50 I can mock your suburban wet dream; I’m from Lynnwood and have, since leaving that shit hole, lived many other places as well. I’m not really sure what awesome cities you’ve hit up but in my experience every city has obstructionists like you who’s ultimate goal (as far as I can determine) is to scream every idea has huge issues until nothing is accomplished and following that, screaming I told you so when things get worse. You make this pretty easy to accomplish when you right off alternative transit for reasons like the trains will be cramped with the unwashed, non-god fearing folk which you apparently despise. Comments like “normal clean sane citizens” make me even more terrified of your white bread utopia because it’s based on the fact that you dictate what is normal and if your posts on this blog are any indicator, normal is some pretty horrible shit. As an aside, where are these awesome road-centric cities you’ve lived in?
“Until such time as I can drive my car to an outlying suburb’s park and ride, climb onto a fast U train, experience normal clean sane citizens riding along with me, and get me within 3 blocks of my destination within 20 minutes, I will simply never ride transit.”
Dude, this does exist. It may not be on a U train, but even in the mid/late 90s when I had my first real summer job (still in high school/living with Eastside parents), I used the Issaquah P&R and got downtown in fewer than 20 minutes AND was dropped off in front of my building. It was actually *faster* than driving myself, because we zoomed along the express lanes and I didn’t have to deal with finding and paying for downtown parking. I also never once had a problem with any of the passengers (which I unfortunately cannot say for the 15/18/17 or the any of the 70s).
The commuter express buses are fucking fantastic. Air conditioning! Comfy seats! People who know better than to talk to you while you’re trying to nap or read the paper!
I realize you’re not interested in anything other than making a classist, spoiled-baby point, but there are lots of options out there for those working in the downtown core.
@45 “so the solution to our density problem is “quality journalism” which here means journalism more sympathetic to sprawl and doing nothing.”
Did I say that? You’re insinuating that ECB and Feit are the best journalists to cover the issue. not true. So my solution to OUR problem would be to hire a journalist with ethics, one that you can trust, and one that stays away from petty personal venedettas.
And no, you’re the one claiming the “density problem.” @25 didn’t. So you are asking him to solve your imaginary problems.
PS if you think sprawl is still a problem, take a drive out in the suburbs and tell me how many new houses are being built. Have you been following the news? Or just slog? This was an issue 2 years ago.
@53, please follow @32’s advice. Or somehow does your bitching not count?
Great job.
@55 He wasn’t talking about density? Really?
“While many of us here (new and old-timers alike) want density and transit, the Stranger’s unabashed rah-rah for ANY OLD DENSITY, CRAPPY BUILDINGS, and things like HB1490’s Transit ADJACENT development shows an absolute LACK OF UNDERSTANDING of the issues, KNEE JERK pile-on, and (as I mentioned before) CRAPPY journalism.”
I’m pretty sure the above is referencing density and the reporting regarding solutions related to it. The critique of the reporting is that ECB and her ilk don’t understand the real issues and so don’t advocate real solutions. Well homeboy seems to be pretty sure on that score, so I’m asking what are the “real” issues and solutions the Stranger folks are missing? Pretty straight forward.
PS: You’re totally right, now that Oregon, the Midwest and pretty much the whole damn country are hemorrhaging jobs faster than the Puget Sound no one is going to want to live here and urban planning is no longer an issue. No one is going to build houses ever again, least of all in the suburbs, worrying about growth is so two years ago.
What about the Lower East Side? Still think that’s a shithole?
I’m guessing you haven’t been to New York for a while. Bed-Stuy is gentrified.
Do the anti-density people really want Seattle to turn into LA? Because that’s what their policy choices indicate. In the meantime, pro-density people aren’t trying to turn Seattle into NYC, they’re trying to turn it into Seattle with a bigger population.
And who cares if ECB lifted a bottle of wine? Does that have something to do with Seattle’s future?
@56 I’ll stop when you stop tough guy. Regardless, the difference is I am advocating a stance, I was a fan of the recently deceased Transit adjacent development bill, I thought it was at the very least, a start. But many on here knee jerk rant against ECB without bringing anything to the table, and I read this shit on here daily. Everybody seems to have a plan they aren’t talking about, but anytime ECB actually advocates one, hers is totally wrong by default and everyone else continues to claim a better solution without details.
@59,
Wow, bed-stuy has gotten better? I guess it couldn’t have gotten any worse. No, I didn’t know, I haven’t been to that part of brooklyn in several years… the way it was, though, I didn’t think it would EVER improve.
@60 No definitely not.
But that isn’t even a close comparison. We are so far away from being anything remotely resembling LA it isn’t even logical.
Rather this anti density person isn’t so much against density, as much as I’m against the “braintrust” of those thinking they know how it should happen.
We need to quit allowing overt influence from the Sierra Club, Cascade Cycle club and Greenpeace etc etc in our transit decisions. The fact that any roads are an automatic “No” from the start invalidates their participation.
If you really want a happy medium,
First we need to have a firm commitment that all major roads will see expansion for car capacity. Since cars are in use by 90% of the population our goals should be 90% geared towards their interests.
Second, we then need to commit to expanding every major arterial in the city for an extra (vehicle only!) lane of travel in each direction. The city needs to ensure that vehicle traffic is not infringed upon by other special interest groups like bicyclists. We have limited funding for projects, and those that pay gas taxes, license tabs and property taxes have a right to their taxes being used to expand their road options.
I don’t for a moment believe that other special interests are helping “reduce congestion”, but rather are asking for a piece of the pie they didn’t pay for. Mass transit is nice, but the ridership isn’t paying for the amount of transit they consume. It is out of balance, and they need to deal with what meager scraps of transit the driving public has graciously offered them, and not whine for better/more. Unless they want their fares to go up another $2 per trip, I’m not giving them another moment of concern. They are not paying their fair share. period.
Third, we need to split King County off from Seattle, and allow Seattle to drown in its own problems. The tax base of the rest of the county is simply fucking sick and tired of funding Seattle’s utopia and vice versa for the county. It is readily apparent that Seattle residents don’t give a shit about the rest of the county’s interests. Let the city residents fund the Viaduct project and Mercer mess. Let Seattle residents fund their own mass transit pipe dreams. I’m sure all you eco hippy urbanites have the salary to fund these massive expensive projects right?
@60 Dwight you’ll never get Seattle with a bigger population and not NYC. Seattle can’t have a bigger population with all the road problems it has. Transit is a pipe dream that few will want to participate in. Almost everyone who moves in will bring their vehicle centric lifestyle with them. They’ll need to have roads to drive in on, congestion they won’t want to fight with, and big city crime, filth, and crowding that simply won’t suit them. I’m afraid those of you who are used to big city living simply can’t comprehend the revulsion those of us who grew up in smaller towns feel when they imagine living inside a densely packed Seattle.
Seattle is as dense as I ever want to see it right now. If it actually had decent roads and parking, I’d live there in a heartbeat. I like many of the things certain neighborhoods have to offer. Unfortunately those neighborhoods are more expensive and affluent, yet they don’t come with decent parking, bigger living spaces(Sq footage sucks), attached patio decks that are big enough to host a table, bbq grill, and 4 chairs (or a hottub), and enough adjacent greenspace to attract many similar potential residents like me.
Until such time as the “quality of life” improves, you’ll never see me or anyone similar moving into the downtown core. I will put up with a LOT of outlying sprawl, before I’ll cave in to moving someplace that feels cramped, dirty, unsafe, and closed in.
There are hundreds of thousands of similar minded folks who refuse to submit to that type of condensed lifestyle, and until all you utopians realize the reality of that statement, you will continue to face resistance from me and my peers.
I came from Texas because it’s better here, and it’s better here because of all those pro-density, eco-nazi-faggot types. Fuck you, Jef, you whiny cuntrag.
Incidentally, I hate the East Coast.
I’ll tell you what: there’s a cheap house with a big garage and lots of wide, sprawling, awful roads around it waiting for you in the Austin suburbs or maybe Dallas. There are also public schools with no sex ed and creationism creeping into the classrooms. You might also be interested in the anti-gay amendment to the state constitution, from the sound of things, and the continuing lobbying efforts to reinstate the criminalization of sodomy and sex toys! Don’t bother looking for transit packages to hate; there aren’t any. You can have that, and I’ll live up here with all the hippies and fags and users of public transit. Suit you?
And as far as the whole ECB thing, what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
The problem I have with ECB and her ilk is the way they ignore facts which don’t support their ideologies. It’s just as egregious when liberals do it as when deceitful bankers partake in it.
@59: SOME of Bed-Stuy in gentrified. Huge swaths of it are still scary ghetto or at least they were in December.
@58: Another article on this site mentions that Washington State’s unemployment rates are above the national average. Why are people going to flood here again?
I support good urban planning, public transportation, and the resulting increased density… I just don’t support knee-jerk, hair-trigger responses generated from strongly held feelings instead of balanced plans based on well-thought-out analysis of facts.
@64: There’s a huge continuum between redneck, red state theocracy and an ultra left-wing nanny state. Those aren’t the only two choices.
Why do you hate the East Coast? Is this just the Northeast or the whole darn thing?
@14,
Wrong – but thanks for playing.
For those who think that New Yorkers are all cool with gentrification, check out this quote from a member of Stranger faves the Trachtenberg Family Players…
“They also included Rachel Trachtenberg, drummer of the Trachtenberg Family Slideshow Players and former Time Out New York Kids cover girl.
Trachtenberg has her own Wikipedia page, but is apparently unknown to the liveblogger, who identifies her only as “a 14-year-old girl” who told the committee that “Mayor Bloomberg is the worst mayor ever,” denouncing him for contributing to George Bush, buying his previous election victories, and economically forcing her family to move from the East Village to Bushwick.
At the close of her oration the balcony “burst into cheers,” reports the Times, and “Councilman Alan J. Gerson predicted that the teenager just might be a future politician.”
Smart kid, that. I bet she’d agree with Mr. Jaisun, too.
Oh, and @63, of 1.5 million King County residents, about 2/3 of them live outside of the Seattle city limits (which actually strengthens your point).
BTW, within Seattle, about 68% of residents’ work trips occur by car (compared to a whopping 2-3% by bike), and that’s certainly a clear supermajority in anyone’s book.
What you pro-density types don’t seem to get: a lot of people SUCK, and the more people you cram into a square mile, the more sucky people one has to encounter. Call me shallow, call me simple, call me a suburbanite, but, yes, I like that there are no panhandlers outside my door when I step out in the morning. I like that, if my next-door neighbor is making meth, the distance between our homes reduces the risk that my living room will catch on fire when his kitchen lab explodes. I like that I can park my car in my private garage, close the garage door, and safely enter my home at night. I like that there isn’t a methadone clinic and its associated crowds across the street from where I live. I like that I don’t hear my neighbor’s kids, dogs, televisions and domestic altercations.
If you want to embrace the suckiness of other people in the name of “diversity” or “urban culture”, be my guest. Just don’t expect me to follow suit.
@70 – whine whine whine bitch complain.
See, I told you we’d get all the whiners from the PI …
I’ve got to agree with Jigae @26: Trying to increase Seattle’s density would drive many people away from here…. And above @31: If you had New York level density in Seattle, people would leave to Portland or Olympia or a million other places…
I mean, I’m afraid if you have a lot of people living here in Seattle, nobody’s going to want to live here in Seattle.
Also, I sympathize with the complaint @27 about how it’s impossible to commute downtown. Frankly, I think the best way to make downtown a more attractive place to work is to reduce the number of people working downtown. If that doesn’t attract more folks to work downtown, I don’t know what will.
Are you a Yogi Berra fan, by any chance, Cressona?
“Nobody goes there anymore, it’s too crowded”.
@66 Yup, I saw that right after I posted, so maybe the flood of humanity is stemmed for now, but I doubt it. People will still move here because it’s still a relatively nice place to live despite the complaints raised by the Stranger, Slog commenter’s (myself included) raise. Regardless, all I am asking for is an example of this well reasoned solution, what would it look like? Do we simply let further growth play out uncontrolled and let the developers, builders and road advocacy groups have there way?
@63
Your effort to offer a solution to the density problem is commendable, but unfortunately a number of your statements are incorrect.
Most glaringly this: “The city needs to ensure that vehicle traffic is not infringed upon by other special interest groups like bicyclists. We have limited funding for projects, and those that pay gas taxes, license tabs and property taxes have a right to their taxes being used to expand their road options.”
Sigh…this argument is so debunked by now that citing it makes the rest of your proposal less credible.
City streets are funded by property taxes. This means everyone who owns or rents a place to live or do business in Seattle pays for the roads whether they use a car to get around the city or not. Sure, remove bottlenecks in the city’s roads, but if you want to make them car only, then tax yourself the extra amount necessary to make cars pay their full way.
Box?
What “box”?
I used to live in a box?
I’m confused. WTF does that mean?
I’m also a little confused by all the commenters on here who apparently hate The Stranger, hate SLOG, hate your typical, liberal, hipster, pro-density/transit Stranger/Slog reader and hate the editorial viewpoint of The Stranger…
WHY the fuck are you on here? WHY are you reading The Stranger and why are you making stupid comments on Slog? Your dimwitted viewpoints and arguements aren’t going to change very many Slogger’s minds and it’s equally unlikely that your tiny mind is going to be changed…I don’t hang out on Fox News websites, or inbred, fundie Christian, racist dumbfuck websites commenting on their articles…I’m smart enough to know, my opinion is NOT going to change any of their minds.
So, get the hint…if you hate Stranger/slog/liberals in general, fuck off, quit reading and commenting and find a more appropriate outlet to vent your crap.
and I’ve lived and worked in the ‘burbs…the traffic is far worse, congested and irritating in Lynnwood and Bothell and Woodinville and Kirkland and Bellevue than it is in Seattle. And, suburbanites love to bitch about the awful Seattle traffic, but the majority of awful Seattle traffic is caused by suburbanites who invade the city for sports and special events…many of them ONLY come into town at these times so they assume that Seattle traffic is always a snarl…it’s not that bad, when you’re not around…
“Second, we then need to commit to expanding every major arterial in the city for an extra (vehicle only!) lane of travel in each direction.”
Hell no. The wider and more car-filled a street is, the more unfriendly the neighborhood is for pedestrians. Pedestrian traffic is what we need to keep our city neighborhoods active and vital. Cars passing through do *nothing* to make the neighborhoods more attractive and nice to live in.
Yes, we need to make it so people can get around the city more easily. But adding more traffic lanes is not the solution. Adding reliable, fast, and useful transit is. But the system we need is years away. Adding more lanes will just add more pollution, drive away pedestrians, and contribute to sprawl and the destruction of true open space.
And I will add that I am a Seattleite born and raised, and we do not all agree with Jef Jaisun, who seems in his multitude of letters to various editors to embody much of the self-righteous baby boomer attitude that we are hopefully going to be able to move beyond in the 21st Century.
@63. You say you don’t want LA, then you say you need a bunch of space around each house and unlimited car access because you want to drive everywhere. A city that works like that is the city of LA.
You act like we (bicyclists and bus riders) don’t pay taxes. You are quite wrong.
The Sierra Club and Cascade Bicycle Alliance do not give an automatic “no” to any road project. They call for a happy medium, you are the one with an extremist position.
@80 every single poster on this thread has an extremist position, as near as I can tell (pardon me if I missed an actual three dimensional human being amongst all the caricatures). This “discussion” had about as much depth as an episode of G.I. Joe — lots of cartoons shooting blanks at each other.
Yes, by all means we should return to the Seattle of Old, where they burned their trash in their backyards, dumped shit into the sound and Lake Washington was off limits.
The fucking “natives” should shut the fuck up about their shithole of a city. It was the newbies who made this place livable.
@Just Sayin’
FUCK YOU. Fuck You and your smug little white-bread fantasy world. You sir are the very picture of The Ugly American. (You’re so small minded you don’t even need to travel outside of your own locality to achieve this status)
I like cars too. I fix them and restore them but I recognize that they are fundamentally stupid in the context of a city. Also you seem oblivious to the HUGE PUBLIC SUBSIDY that roads and highways have received since WW2. I don’t want my tax dollars spent on asphalt anymore to subsidize your lifestyle. From your vehemence toward cyclist, I suspect your need for the automobile goes somewhat deeper – I suspect your are just another pussy validated by their automobile.
Try riding a bike up a hill sometime, Toughguy.
Can someone please explain to me why these haters (see half of the posts in this thread) read The Stranger in the first place? I’ve read nearly every issue of this paper (for better or worse) since its inception and its tone has not really changed in 17 years. What kind of reporting are these haters expecting? If you don’t like The Stranger’s writers then read The Weekly or the ba-jillions of other periodicals available on the web. Or start your own paper. Good luck.
@76, @45, @84, …. I like that we’ve come to a point that if anybody disagrees with the stranger, you must be a neocon, fox lovin, gun toatin “toughguy”. Nice work. The world is as black and white as you see it……
@86,
Religious fanatics tend to be like that.
@86
you forgot trash-talking coward afraid to use their real name.
To #50 and and anyone complaining about the bus: Are you fucking serious? The bus is too gross for you? I’m one of girliest girls out there and I ride the bus all the time with my fellow weird, smelly, crazy citizens without getting my panties in a twist. If you’re holding your breath for busloads full of “normal clean sane citizens” then I hope you’ve anticipated “asphyxiation” as a potential cause of death.
@89: The bus here *is* gross compared to public transportation in other places. A subway in New York is much more crowded but people are more aware of their space, the transit is faster and more dependable, and there are far fewer aggressive antisocial people, be they homeless, mentally ill, or just horribly rude.
@91 or anyone –
so why are all the buses so gross all the time? is it every route? is it the free ride zone? why all the hobo and hygiene and psychopath troubles?