The concept of treating one’s spouse with love, honor, and respect has taken a beating of late, so it’s truly a thrill to read of the deaths of Sir Edward Downes, 85, and his wife, Joan, 74. The much-honored British orchestra conductor put his eternal mark on “til death do us part” by flying to Switzerland last week to take his own life at the side of his cancer-ravaged wife.
Unlike newly enlightened Washington State, Britain’s archaic no-assisted-suicide laws have resulted in a bizarre travel industry as 120 or so dying citizens have left the country in search of dignified deaths. This case has raised the tension level over that misbegotten system (particularly since Sir Downes wasn’t terminally ill), but let’s leave that debate for another day. The loveliness of this story is the best encapsulated in this first-hand report of their deaths:
On Friday, the children said, they watched, weeping, as their parents drank “a small quantity of clear liquid” before lying down on adjacent beds, holding hands.
“Within a couple of minutes they were asleep, and died within 10 minutes,” Caractacus Downes, the couple’s 41-year-old son, said in the interview after his return to Britain. “They wanted to be next to each other when they died.” He added, “It is a very civilized way to end your life, and I don’t understand why the legal position in this country doesn’t allow it.”
The couple had been married 54 years.
Incidentally, Caractacus may be the best name ever; especially as I’m assuming he was named for the wacky automobile inventor in Ian Fleming’s children’s classic, “Chitty Chitty Bang Bang” (yes, that Ian Fleming). The Downeses named their daughter Boudicca—not quite as much fun for the tongue as Caractacus, but still, the name of a Celtic warrior queen who led a bloody revolt against the wretched Romans.
The concept of treating one’s spouse with love, honor, and respect has taken a beating of late, so it’s truly a thrill to read of the deaths of Sir Edward Downes, 85, and his wife, Joan, 74. The much-honored British orchestra conductor put his eternal mark on “til death do us part” by flying to Switzerland last week to take his own life at the side of his cancer-ravaged wife.
I think nothing would make my death harder then knowing the person I love was insisting on dieing with me.
This is not lovely.
I disagree with #1 completely. After living a lifetime together I can’t think of a better way of dying than with your partner in crime. It’s taking the next step together and it’s lovely indeed.
“Now, if you want to take a picture of the fascinating witches who put the scintillating stitches on the britches of the boys who put the powder on the noses of the faces of the ladies of the harem of the court of King Caractacus, it’s too late! Because they just passed by.”
Oh fucking sure – happy death when you are not ill – his action is the worst fear of those who oppose assisted death. That under emotional pressure or fiscal pressure or for any number of reasons not related to dire terminal illnesses – you off yourself.
Of course, killing oneself is not a new idea, just the medical sense of doctor assisted suicide.
Sad is now compounded into sadder.
Caratacus was a British general/king who opposed the Romans and was eventually executed in Rome, not originally a character in a children’s book.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caratacus
Caractacus is a variant spelling.
I don’t know… on one hand I admire the love, commitment and dedication of this couple, but on the other hand I wonder why the man wouldn’t want to stick around when he has other family. There’s no mention of grandchildren but if he had any I would think he’d want to watch them grow up, at least as far as he could go.
I can appreciate what they’re saying. My body, my life. You would think this would take pressure off the health care system, financing the care of people who have lived their lives ahead of the young who have their whole lives ahead doesn’t make a lot of sense when those people want to end their own suffering. It is an ancient tradition that has it’s place by necessity. Religion should just butt out.
was he terminally ill also? i don’t get why he needed to die other than he was sad. that’s not a good enough reason.
You’re jesting, right?
Wiki: “Caratacus (Brythonic *Caratācos, Greek Καράτακος; variants Latin Caractacus, Greek Καρτάκης) was a historical British chieftain of the Catuvellauni tribe, who led the British resistance to the Roman conquest.”
And btw, the wretched ones were the Celts, duh!
Who is Audrey Van Buskirk? New to The Stranger? I heard a bunch of new staff were coming.
Considering they named their daughter Boudicca (!), Caratacus is probably named for the British chieftain who *also* led a resistance against the Romans. Kind of geeky for my taste though.
I’m a classics major, so I’m on the side of the Romans. Bloody barbarians.
It appears to them it was lovely, and it is what they wanted. It is romantic in a Shakespearean way.
I know that, at present, I wouldn’t want to out live my beloved, but would live on for our children. Both sets of my grandparents are alive, and each couple will soon celebrate 70 years together, and I could understand their choosing to go together. Despite the pain, I would think it lovely.
This must be one of those personality litmus tests… I definitely see this as more depressing than lovely. I mean, it’s poetic in an “I will follow you into the dark” kind of way, but in real life? I find it depressing that he felt he had nothing to live for but his wife (kids? grandkids? other passions?). But, no one’s ever accused me of being a hopeless romantic…
Sure glad most gay men did not think this way mid the dying horror years of the AIDS epidemic – so at least there were survivors – and a core group to keep fighting back.
I am very romantic, but can’t agree with double death in the name of your cherished relationship.
A bit too sappy. Oh, well, young couples in Japan kill themselves often, in the name of love. Human kind is so very curious.
@6: Probably because he’d be watching from afar. Apart from family visits, he’d be spending his time alone, as a widower. It’s nice to believe an old man can live for nothing but grandchildren, but it’s not something I can buy into.
The man’s 85. I’m too young to have married and lost a husband, but somehow, I think I can sympathize. Characterizing a man is merely “sad” for losing his wife of *fifty-four* years is a cold thought.
Caractacus (Karadoc):
http://collage.cityoflondon.gov.uk/colla…
When you see the statue you finally get the joke from Penzance …and tell you every detail of Caractacus’s uniform.
Seems odd to me that all of the children were (ostensibly) OK with this, but hey, that’s living in a world of free personal choice for you. That said, I don’t see much point in romanticizing it. If the concept of loving, honoring and cherising one’s spouse has taken such a beating that we’ve resorted to holding up stories of mutual suicide as shiningly positive examples, that’s kind of sad, don’t you think?
I bought my house through a realty agency named Van Buskirk. It wasn’t being operated by the namesake though. I wonder if Audrey is related to the founder?
bereft and sad are similar emotions. my dad is currently bereft. he’s 73. my mother in law was bereft, after 6 months she was not. she’s 83.
they’re just emotions. they pass.
He’s 85, his wife is dying, has had an incredible career as a musician and is now going blind and deaf. I can totally understand his decision – kids or no kids.
Hey Kim, as a recovering Catholic I know my old Church says suicide is a sin. Since you’re the resident biblical scholar, I wonder if you could shed any light on that? Does it say that anywhere or is it covered by “Thou shalt not kill?”
Why care enough to fear it at all? It’s none of your business. The only thing that makes you think it’s your business is religion, and it’s high time that religion butt the fuck out.
@19: I suppose my view is that an 85-year-old man has lived long enough that he can decide that for himself.
Hmm, having just read the article, the “almost blind and increasingly deaf” bit may change my mind on this particular situation. If that’s true, this makes somewhat more sense to me — 85, in poor health, cut off from other people by his senses.
I still think that if he had been reasonably healthy, it would have been more depressing than lovely (and that “till death do us part” means just what it says, not “we vow to never be separated, even in death”).
@19: Also, considering his wife was dying from cancer, I imagine he had ample time — possibly even six months — to consider the circumstances and what action he could take.
Old people (or people of any age) should be free to choose to end their own lives at the time when they feel they are done. A quick tidy suicide is more honorable than a long drawn-out lonely decline. Nobody should feel obligated to cling to the tail end of an increasingly miserable life, which is how most people spend their final years.
“….since Sir Downes wasn’t terminally ill…”
I realize this correction is indicative of terminal geekiness, but knightly titles (“Sir” and “Dame”) are correctly prepended to the individual’s first name; “Sir Edward”, in this case.
This only gets to be sweetly touching because he’s 85. If this was a younger person doing it, it would be just as sad everybody thinks. I think anybody over a certain age should get to end it whenever they want. Advanced old age is painful.
I’m glad his family isn’t as selfish as those who don’t respect his decision, and I hope that mine will be the same.
(That said, I have no intention of following my loved ones into the dark, no matter how painful the missing will be.)
@24: especially considering he’s a famous conductor.
Some people take the “till death do us part” thing pretty seriously, so seriously, that in this case at least and under these particular circumstances they apparently decided that death was preferable to parting.
I doubt many of us, regardless of how much we loved, honored and respected our spouse, would make this same choice. But I respect their right to do so.
@27 you beat me to the punch. Let’s see: terminal geekiness, is that something we have to go to Switzerland for?
ITA @23
my grandfather died 2 weeks after his 71st anniversary – my grandmother has been bereft (or as 19 would have it, “sad”) for the last 3 years without him. Seeing what life is like for the elderly, I can totally get behind the idea of making your own departure with your partner in crime. Not to say I think anyone should be made to go that route, but I respect the choice, and I’m glad the kids respected their parents enough to be there and support them.
Personality litmus test indeed….If I were the wife who were dying, it would kill me to know that my husband was choosing to die too. I wouldn’t let him do it if I could help it.
If I were the person losing a spouse…? I might die shortly thereafter from depression and heartbreak…but I wouldn’t want to burden the person I love with the knowledge that I was killing myself even though I was healthy.
Yeah, this whole idea is nice in theory, but not necessarily in practice.
There’s normally only one Slog contributor who would dare wade into and explore a topic like this…
Thankfully, he didn’t.
I think I like Audrey.
Wow… that’s amazing. Good for them.
By the way, I do respect the guy’s ability to make this choice. I’m not condemning him or saying he shouldn’t have done it, I’m just saying that I don’t necessarily agree with the opinion that his actions should be held up as a lovely example of treating your spouse with honor, respect, etc.
#20
Religion baiting does not work.
I have no part of any religion at all – I live by my own construct of moral and ethical rules. And I have no hardcore family shit from the Catholic or Baptist family/childhood stuff.
There is real discussion about pressure and forces that drive decisions, and, the danger that in some cases the operative forces that lead to suicide are not terminal illness.
In fact, a lot of people here have already taken up the old people should be OK about dying in this fashion — cause, well, they are old.
One of the fast growing ages in the USA are people over 75. So, assumptively, 85 is the moment when life becomes worthless?
Tons of room for good discussion on this topic, here and elsewhere
.
1)It’s HIS life and HIS decision…respect it.
2)uh, who the hell is Audrey VanKirk and why is she Slogging? This post is riddled with stupid, lazy writing/research errors…
Hi Matt @ 21,
I’ll give it a stab, but FYI I was raised protestant and am a non-denominational Christian now.
I think suicide being a sin, is more a Catholic thing, than a biblical moral sin. This is because the Old Testament is ripe with individuals who cry out for death, and some who commit suicide, despite “Thou shall not kill”: Exodus 20:13, Deuteronomy 5: 17, Numbers 11:12-15, Judges 9: 52-54, Judges 16: 29-30, 1 Samuel 31: 4-6, 1 Chronicles 10: 3-7, 2 Samuel 1: 2-17, 2 Samuel 17: 1-29, 1 King 16:15-20, 1 King 18:40, 1 King 19:4, and Jonah 4: 1-11 (I may have missed some.) From the New Testament: Matthew 27:5, Acts 1:18, 1 Corinthians 3: 17 (I think this is the passage that is used to argue suicide being a sin, but more on it later), Philippians 1:20-26, and Revelation 9: 1-10 (End times were all still on the earth will seek death but be unable to find it) (I may have missed some here, too.)
1 Corinthians 3:17: “If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.”
As to be expected, it has different interpretations amongst denominations and between Bible translations.
I think it is important to note, that the Corinthian verse is the only verse amongst that list where there is any reference to any kind of punishment from God. It’s important to know that many Biblical heroes cried out for death and begged for it: Moses, Elijah, Jonah. Yet, we don’t have any responding condemnation from God for desiring it. I also think it is interesting, that the ancient Greek word for desecrate is used in the Corinthian passage, and not their word for defile or destroy.
To sum this all up, it is my opinion, that God is/was not mad at either Sir Edward or his wife, Joan. He met them, even though He is omniscient, to hear all the hows and whys, because He is relational. Even if they didn’t believe in Him, he met them none the less, patiently giving them the opportunity to receive the gift. For the gospel of grace loudly proclaims that forgiveness precedes repentance. So, it doesn’t really matter if suicide is a sin or not, what matters is how they received him after they left this life.
The above may leave you with the question, why then do I seek to rid myself of may many personal sins and insist on following Him? It’s because I want to be like Christ, I want to love (Agape: to love without consideration of oneself and always in the best interest of the beloved) like He does. To love every person exactly as I find them.
I hope this helps.
k
I think its lovly, just because something is sad doesnt mean it cant be beautiful… Death is natural, we are all gonna do it, he just had the courage to make death his own and to follow his beloved into the dark… perhaps love can really outlast even death.
Audrey’s work has appeared in The Stranger before, though it’s been a while. A fantastic essay from 2003:
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/no-fl…
@38 I don’t have a problem with him having a right to do it, but I don’t have to respect it. That’s just silly. Should I respect the choices of crackheads or teen suicides too?
I have every right to have an opinion on his choice and to express it. I owe him no respect that he has not earned.
Really? You’ve hired Audrey? Audrey who tried to make the Seattle Weekly more like the Stranger? With that wacky logo and the shorter articles?
I saw this in Romeo and Juliet…
Oh I get it. Audrey who hired Christopher Frizzelle and employed Bethany Jean Clement…
geez kim, why can’t you just believe/do whatever you want without torturing the Bible to justify it?
@38 “HIS life and HIS decision…respect it”
I’m hoping that what you meant by that is “Respect his right to make the decision for himself”.
6
sure, the kids are cool with it- he could have lingered for 15 years and eaten up the estate in medical bills otherwise
@14 Are you kidding? I was in San Francisco living in the Castro when AIDS hit and let me tell you. I personally knew five people who commited suicide before they “needed” to. Nobody wanted to face the inevitability of turning into purple blisters both outside and inside. It was just too horrible. Gruesome. Anything, even death, was better.
Sure glad most gay men did not think this way mid the dying horror years of the AIDS epidemic – so at least there were survivors – and a core group to stick around and keep infecting each other.
Cause otherwise we’d be missing 53% of our new AIDS cases every year.