The failure to reach agreement on Capitol Hill raised a specter of financial collapse for General Motors and Chrysler, which say they may not be able to survive through this month….
“It’s over with,” the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, said on the Senate floor, after it was clear that a deal could not be reached. “I dread looking at Wall Street tomorrow. It’s not going to be a pleasant sight.”
Mr. Reid added: “This is going to be a very, very bad Christmas for a lot of people as a result of what takes place here tonight.”
Christopher Frizzelle was The Stranger's print editor, and first joined the staff in 2003. He was the editor-in-chief from 2007 to 2016, and edited the story by Eli Sanders that won a 2012 Pulitzer... More by Christopher Frizzelle
@49
Yeah, worker safety is so 20th century. Get with the times, people.
I should add to my earlier pessimistic posts and say that I think “good union jobs” can exist in other, new industries (many of the future green economy jobs that have been so highly touted) OR in some new iteration of the auto companies. But, if revolutionary change in their business model and/or products doesn’t happen, I think the “good union jobs” go away. And, I don’t see how the bailout helps them in this regard…
When unions get powerful they extort terms that are ruinous to their industry.
EVERYONE agrees concessions UAW forced on automakers were too lavish.
The piper is here to be paid.
If by “good union jobs” people mean jobs and benefits like UAW forced on Detriot then NO industry can survive that, the only question is how long they would linger before going bust.
The greed of powerful entrenched unions rivals that of Wall Street, with similar results.
@51
Worker saftey, 8 hour workday, health benefits etc are not ‘so 20th century’.
Extortionist unions are.
Try to keep up.
It takes two parties to enter into a contract: Management and labor. If management is too STUPID or INCOMPETENT to know it’s a bad contract, or to not enforce contractural obligations that they AGREED to, why is that labor’s fault?
And for all the functional retards out there who think auto workers make $77 an hour, and that they don’t pay into their pension plan, please pull your head out and do some research.
Lastly, if this industry fails, think of where that pension obligation is going to land. Think of all the tax revenue that will be lost. Not only sales tax, but property tax and social security tax.
Don’t be a dumbass conservative. We can’t afford shitheads like that anymore. We need to be adults now.
15
I agree that the UAW is the most coddled and catered to of all unions, except maybe the Teamsters, but without Unions the Republican voting owners would not give workers anything. No retirement, no health benefits, no nothing.
The Republicans are trying to bust the unions in hopes that, if successful, the owners will contribute heavily to Republican candidates in 2010 and 2012.
@56
Works for me
@27 – I didn’t propose anything. All I said was that it doesn’t take any formidable qualities to unionize.
@56 thats a fallacy. you don’t know what would happen if the remaining 25% of workers who were unionized suddenly become un-unionized. we already live in a primarily un-unionized labor market
the one thing that I think needs to be a mandate for unions going forward is to push management not only on the benefits for employee but also push management to create sustainable business. it is in their member’s best interest.
unions definitely have a role, but by and large they are losing that role because of technological improvement (thus leading to less skills needed), cheap international labor, and improved reliability of international transport. Back in the 20th century a union could exert market power because they had a monopoly on local labor. Take away that monopoly and you can see why unions are anachronistic in the way that most union supporters view them.
also any argument as to what unions HAVE done provides nothing in support for their place in the future. referencing 19th century labor reforms doesn’t have any relevance to how unions operate now, or how our modern economy operates.
@55
If auto workers have been paying into their pension plan then I guess we don’t have to worry about where that pension obligation is going to land.
I feel better already!
@56. I would argue that the teachers unions are the most coddled and catered to, but I don’t want to hijack the thread… :>
@60:
And just what exactly do you think is going to happen to all those “19th Century labor reforms” once unions are completely busted and pushed out of the picture?
The first thing will be that you can kiss all those worker benefits buh-bye, just as non-unionized employers in the South have pretty much already done, with the exception of those that are federally mandated.
“Welcome to the 21st Century Labor Market. Just like 19th Century Sweat-Shops – only newer!”
@62, and the irony is teachers don’t even make that much.
@63, I dont think theyre going anywhere because the leverage that unions have now is already weak. You think unions have a lot more power than they currently do. If 25% share of the labor market hasn’t caused a collapse of those benefits I dont think a 50% drop from that number will change it.
And how much have unions done for ALL people, not just their dues paying members since the FAA debacle? one criticism that can be levied against the UAW and many other unions is that they are no longer societal advocates, merely they are membership based arbitrator corporations.
@63
You are so right.
By all means let’s borrow $ome more from the Chinese so we can keep paying those benefits.
The powerful union SCREW the rest of America’s workers (and even new workers in their own industries) in order to mantain the extravagent benefits for older existing members.
also, good thing harry reid isn’t a stock trader or broker; the market has already priced in the failure of GM
Reid is a total moron.
If he is your story then you don’t have a story, Chrissy.
I do want to say, however, fuck the Big Three for not coming out with viable diesel cars, EVER.
That’s not how ERISA works. The government will be on the hook for a tiny fraction of automakers’ pension obligations, assuming that the burden doesn’t completely crush the system and retired workers get left with nothing.
…aaand the first shoe drops:
“General Motors Corp., which is involved in a last-ditch effort to garner federal funds to help it survive through January, confirmed this morning that it is slashing approximately 250,000 units of production in the first quarter by shutting down most North American assembly plants for about 30 percent of the first quarter.”
Read more here.
Bunch of spoiled brats.
Someone’s going to get a spanking when Frat Boy leaves and Dad shows up.
That’s for darned sure …
oh, and the union workers only pull $17 in pay, by the way.
@65:
See, that’s the whole point: that 25% of the labor market that HAS union protections has had to fight tooth-and-nail to preserve every gain made over the last 75 or so years; while those industries or geographic areas where union solidarity has been eradicated have already seen most of those gains evaporate.
And of course with unions out of the picture at the federal level, the only ones holding the line against corporations, which will continue to press for even more workplace concessions, all in the name of “competitiveness” (read: increasing profitability at the expense of workers) will be a handful of elected officials, who will themselves be pressured to cave if they want to stay in office, since those same corporations will pour tens of millions of dollars into funding candidates who WILL give them everything they want, including significant roll-backs of federally mandated workplace health and safety regulations, Social Security and Medicare benefits, and anything else they can get away with – and all with absolutely NOTHING and NO ONE to stand in their way.
So, who’s going to protect workers if they can’t protect themselves?
As far as the pension issue goes, the biggest problem facing the auto industry is the fact that The Big Three have woefully under capitalized their pension plans – to the tune of 40 – 50% of the amount needed for long-term solvency. It’s not that they didn’t have the money to fully fund these plans, it’s that over the past 20 or so years, they deliberately neglected to adequately fund them when they could have, and instead re-purposed tens of billions of dollars for things like executive benefits packages, advertising, paying lawyers to fight fuel-efficiency and safety standards, etc., etc.
Now the chickens have come home to roost, as it were, and the fiscal irresponsibility of the auto makers has come back to bite them in their collective asses. If they’d done the right thing in the first place, they wouldn’t be in this situation today, but instead what will most likely happen is they’ll be rewarded for their incompetence, while the workers, who in fact DID see the writing on the wall several years ago when they agreed to massive rollbacks in contracted benefits, will AGAIN take it in the shorts.
Of course, they’re all just filthy, greedy Trotskyites anyway, right? Meanwhile the ENTIRELY BLAMELESS executives will hold onto their Golden Parachutes, their cushy corner offices, and their lucrative bonus packages, while those scum-sucking workers can just go fend for themselves in the soup lines, which is better than they deserve for having the audacity to not know their place, and the temerity to demand they share in the profits made as a result of their labor.
I’d argue that the real problem is that the union doesn’t have enough power. We should nationalize the automakers and then convert 50% of shares to worker control. That cuts out the management that has been responsible for all the bad decision-making, and puts decision-making in the hands of the people most affected, as well as the broader public interest.
And offer the same deal to foreign automakers–recapitalization in exchange for shares owned by the US government, with 50% controlled by worker representatives. Then the workers can introduce common union-level pay across all American factories.
76
wow
what color is the sky in your world?
So, to summarize the conservative anti-union arguments: Incompetent, millionaire golden-parachute-having, private-jet-riding management = the very soul of American enterprise. Workers who earn enough to buy a house, put their kids through college, have medical coverage and retirement benefits = BREAKING THE BACK OF AMERICAN BUSINESS.
Oh, please. Same old argument we’ve been hearing for 100 years and then some. Very popular among the William Randolph Hearst set — the people who publish the news that tells us that these things are so, in case you’re paying attention.
Republicans were fine with bailing out their bank buddies because those people make money simply by screwing around with other people’s money. They create nothing of real-world value.
Republicans don’t want to bail out the car companies because the majority of those who benefit will be people who actually PRODUCE something. God forbid we save the jobs of people who provide us with an actual product. Couldn’t a 12 year old working 80 hours a week for $3 a day in China make it for us at a lower cost? And with only a minor reduction in the size of the polar caps??? And if that product is less than state of the art it’s because of the assholes running the companies who for too long have provided not their best, but what they thought (mistakenly as it turns out) to be good enough.
It’s just like taxes. Republicans don’t want to tax capital gains because that’s how the rich get super rich, that or thru compensation packages full of stock- the value of which is manipulated for their benefit. Poor guys who just work and get paid by the hour? They get hammered by the tax code in comparison
It figures the Republicans in the Senate would seize this (last?) opportunity to destroy unions in this country by holding the big three hostage. Instead let’s pour our resources into saving AIG so all it’s top execs can enjoy their $50,000 spa trips.
79
wow
This is really insightful anZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz……….
Could someone on this list please explain why the unions result in cars that get shitty gas mileage? Was selling of the Hummer and focusing on SUVs, rather than cheaper, more fuel efficient, *attractive* cars, was that somehow written into the union contract? I’m sorry — I’m just a bit confused.
@81: Comment @11 has the best summary of this on this thread. Short answer: line workers make whatever cars they’re told to make. Blaming the union for Detroit’s bad decisions on what cars to push is a red herring — the fact is the people making those arguments will seize on whatever justification for attacking unions they can and this one just happens to be handy.
82
and furthermore UAW workers were getting screwed by only getting paid $77 an hour-
they deserve MUCH MORE!
It’s time for the taxpayers of America (89% of whom make less than UAW line workers) to pony up to keep the UAW gravy train flowing.
(and don’t even THINK of showing your INGRATITUDE by complaining about the inevitable higher taxes, YOU CRETINS!)
There are two ways Senate Republicans could help the auto executives to bust the auto unions.
The first was to hold the bailout hostage to union concessions.
The second is to send it to bankruptcy so the union contracts (including retirement pensions) will become in-executable contracts.
Plan A didn’t work. Plan B is proceeding as desired.
@84
BWA HAHA HAHAHAHA