The failure to reach agreement on Capitol Hill raised a specter of financial collapse for General Motors and Chrysler, which say they may not be able to survive through this month….
“It’s over with,” the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid of Nevada, said on the Senate floor, after it was clear that a deal could not be reached. “I dread looking at Wall Street tomorrow. It’s not going to be a pleasant sight.”
Mr. Reid added: “This is going to be a very, very bad Christmas for a lot of people as a result of what takes place here tonight.”
Christopher Frizzelle was The Stranger's print editor, and first joined the staff in 2003. He was the editor-in-chief from 2007 to 2016, and edited the story by Eli Sanders that won a 2012 Pulitzer... More by Christopher Frizzelle
FUCK!
Message from this Seattle mostly-liberal guy to Auto Industry: Drop Dead. American car makers have been unable to sell cars and make money in the richest, most car country crazy on the planet and we’re supposed to bail them out? Fuck that. As soon as UAW members give up their $30 an hour starting wage, maybe I’ll be ready to start listening to some bailout talk. Until then, fuck them too.
Bush/Paulson will provide the money from the earlier bailout package. Do they want to? No. But will they do so to avoid wholesale carnage one month prior to leaving town? Yes.
Who the fuck wants to buy an American car? Not this guy. I’ve been reading car magazines like Road & Track, Motor Trend, and Car and Driver since I was 12 in 1989. I’ve never heard a convincing argument in favor of a ‘Murrican car since then. This business model and design school has been dying since well before then. I’m not proud that my country is going to be in the shitter soon, but hey, we did it to ourselves. You think Joe the Riveter is really proud of the Hummers, Oldsmobiles, Buicks, Cavaliers, Cirruses, Aspens, Azteks, Neons, PT Cruisers, Camaros and Avalanches he’s been building all these years? Fuck that. He drives a fucking Corolla.
You know, I am not bright enough to know which way is the right decision regarding the bail out, but the fact that the Republicans are using this opportunity to try to crush the unions in this country makes me want to give the big three more money than they asked for.
There is something fishy going on when rich desk jockeys keep their jobs and salaries while Wall Street gets bailed out; meanwhile, the working man, whose companies are asking for a fraction of the money the financial companies got, were kicked in the ass and shown the door by Republican Senators, unless the workers all but disband the UAW.
Hello soup lines…
Does anyone else feel like they’re getting fucked fifty ways at once with all this shit?
I think the Republicans ultimately have it right. Unless there is fundamental change in these companies (management and union contracts), throwing money in their direction is a waste. Management can be fired. The unions have said they will not entertain wage concessions. Just like at Eastern Airlines, the union workers prefer to take their companies down rather than take any reduction in their very healthy wages.
When John McCain stopped his campaign to orchestrate a bailout — SLOGers villified him.
When Republicans stepped in to stop a bailout — SLOGers heaped calumny on them.
Seattle Lib nincompoops — wanting it both ways…as always.
I am nothing if not inconsistent. (I think I pulled a triple-negative).
@2 & others
The UAW is not the problem here; the problem here is that the American auto industry has been cutting corners on re-engineering and retooling for 40 years; so they’ve been getting by selling impractical novelty cars since the ’70s and now they’re going to pay for it.
The wage that auto workers demand is a career wage for skilled workers in the American labor market.
The biggest problem with the American auto industry is the same problem that applies to all American industry; American workers are expensive compared to workers in other countries. American environmental regulations are expensive to work under, compared to the environmental regulations in other countries. It’s impossible for American industry to compete with foreign industry in American markets — let alone foreign markets — unless we either abandon our standards and aspire to Chinese-style labor exploitation and resource destruction, or protect our native industries with reciprocal trade agreements that force countries like China to equalize costs against our labor and environmental standards if they want to sell in our markets. Which would mostly cause them to drop out our markets.
Which would be all kinds of trouble, but the disaster we’re facing now is the alternative, so I’m inclined to believe we should take the trouble while we can.
Ah, but don’t mind me. Quick! Find a bad guy to blame!
@11
The UAW has something to do with it; Honda, Subaru, and other automakers are using non-union labor and therefore don’t have to factor in cushy retirement plans and high base pay into their bottom line.
http://www.boingboing.net/images/x_2008/…
@11: Your environmental regulation arguments don’t apply to EU countries, who have some of the world’s toughest regs. (ever heard of REACH? No? http://assets.panda.org/downloads/reachi… )
I do agree that US auto companies can’t be competitive with those in sane countries until we decouple our health insurance from our employment. Otherwise, we will continue to pay a huge premium for worker health care when buying our cars.
@5
Unions are 90% of Detroits problem.
@11
Toyota and other companies make good cars in America just fine, thank you.
It is the UNIONS!
re: story headline
Frizzle- get a clue!
don’t be a tool of the Democrats forever
actual headline:
UAW to the Automoblie Industry:Drop Dead
The deal fell apart because unions wouldn’t budge an inch. They ,make the Republicans case that as long as the unions insist on business as usual nothing else will help the auto industry.
1 Declare bankruptcy.
2 Flush the UAW.
3 Start over.
This is the first time in a long time that I find myself in agreement with the republicans in congress. Thomas Friedman had a great analogy for this bailout in his column on Wednesday: it would be like bailing out the typewriter companies at the dawn of the personal computer. GM, Chrysler (management and unions) have sealed their own fate and I see no reason to reward their behavior. The world is changing without them and no amount of money (now or later) is going to save them.
Republicans are union busting. The unions agreed to make sacrifices. If you notice, southern Republicans have Japanese auto companies working in their states, so they stand to profit if American companies go under. To me, this is treason. Republicans have shown how un-American they really are and how low they can go. We will all pay.
All you pathetic little sheep who are bitching about the unions better hope someone intelligent steps in and saves this thing. Or else when you’re standing in the food bank line (because this WILL have an echo effect that will carry well over into our little high-tech enclave) you will wish you had been smart and brave enough to unionize.
And when you’re old and eating cat food you’ll think about the days you made money and really REALLY wish you’d been smart and brave enough to unionize.
Oh my, I can see the big thinkers are out in force this morning. It’s good to know that a complete lack of knowledge of a situation doesn’t stop some people. All they need is a scapegoat, and a simple-minded solution, and all is fine. That’s what I call plucky!
And an extra-special gold star to the one who cited Milton Friedman. After all, it was he and his fellow braintrusters who bought us this current economy. It’s nice to see someone who still finds him relevant.
Oops, sorry. Thomas Friedman. Not Milton. Still a major tool though. “Lexus and the Olive Tree” is as big of a pipe dream as anything of Rand’s, only without the rapes and romance novel underpinnings.
To all the “liberals” who are supporting the failure of the American auto industry and unions:
I HOPE that you lose your jobs and that you and your families suffer terribly as a result. Now that will be something to celebrate!
If we had nationalized health care this would be a non-issue. GM is paying out health care benefits at a ratio of 3 to 1 in favor of retired workers vs active workers.
@21 – It takes neither brains nor bravery to unionize. All it takes is the insecurity to negotiate for yourself and the realization that your job is very replaceable.
@26: Fuck you. Seriously. You’re proposing that people should get exploited so that the assholes that put us in this mess can bail out with a golden parachute.
When all else fails, Republicans will NEVER hesitate to blame problems on the poor, minorities, or blue-collar workers.
@25 wins — this is the actual answer.
This is why GM Europe will be just fine.
I presume all of you blaming the evil unions won’t be lazily taking a weekend off from work…?
The big powerful unions are cement shoes on American industry at a time when you must be nimble to survive (forget thrive). Prosperous industries can survive the bloodsucking for a while but eventually they all die (steel, airlines, now auto) The only ‘industries’ where unions remain viable are those that are not actual businesses, Teachers and government employees, who survive by sticking up the taxpayer (with an assist from the Democratic Party)
Wow. The anti-union trolls are out in force this morning. I wonder how much these people get paid to post on blogs like this.
@25 – you beat me. I was about to say that. The difference between Japan, Germany and the US is that they have national health care as well as a national pension program. In other words, people are taxed alot for it but benefit from it later in life. Unfortunately, it’s not like that in this country. If we had national health care in addition to a better social security program (again this involves raising the taxes of 250K+, which Republicans HATE thinking about), Unionized workers wouldn’t start out making 30/hr and probably start out at 10-12USD/hr less.
The Republicans basically want the Unions to forgo the healthcare and pensions so that people are on their own when they’re sick or when they get old. Basically the Republicans don’t give a shit out the people, just about the corps and investors who fund their elections.
30
“it burnses! it burnses!”-
the gollum-like liberal wailed as he held his hands over his ears.
the truth hurts, but it will set you free if you embrace it.
True, the Repubs may have come out against the bailout, but what does it say about the ability for the Dems to get anything passed? Don’t they have a slim majority?
This is a No Brain-er. Time for the Auto industry to push hard, REAL hard for Monorail and light rail systems. They will build the cars, the systems, the infrastructure just like they did with the road system. Easy fix.
Union busters… oh please.
The big 3 have been building less reliable cars that get worse milage than the Japanese and European competitors for 30 years. How is that the UAW’s fault?
The big 3 built a business model around selling profitable gas guzzlers and ignoring small fuel efficient cars. Then oil went to $145 a barrel, and the sales of gas guzzlers went in the toilet. How is that the UAW’s fault?
Then the credit market froze up. This makes it hard for consumers to get car loans. And it makes it hard for the big 3 to get business loans to bridge them over. How is this the UAW’s fault?
The US is the only major country in the world that has no national health plan. Japanese and European companies don’t have to pay medical for their employees because healthcare is provided by the government. How is this the UAW’s fault?
The unions have almost nothing whatsoever to do with the predicament the US auto industry now finds itself in. And gutting the unions will do nothing to save the big 3.
@33 – need 60 votes for this plan to bring up the plan.
@36
Which the good people of America saw fit to deny them.
Reverse Polarity — Detroit auto workers are overpaid AND the companies are carrying too much in pension obligations. So, no, the UAW is not alone at fault, but it did its part to create the current mess.
The Slog’s support for this bailout plan is frankly disgusting.
It now appears that Bush, who is wrong about pretty fucking much everything, will bail out GM and Chrysler using TARP funds. This ensures that this liberal will never, fucking EVER buy a car from one of those companies — even an electric one.
@35
plus don’t forget when the dog ate their homework.
What a bunch of malarkey.
excuses excuses excuses
Car companies that aren’t mugged by the UAW do fine in America. UAW labor cost twice what other American auto workers receive.
UAW health benefits bankrupted the big three, now you want the taxpayers to pick up the tab?
no thanks
The Slog to American Manufacturers of Non-American Cars: Drop Dead.
Oh, and while we’re on the subject of the Slog’s approach to this subject — it’s been reliably reprehensible — Senate Republicans didn’t tell the “auto industry” to drop dead. GM and Chrysler are not the “auto industry”. They’re two particularly weak players in the auto industry.
When the federal government puts a business on life support, it deprives that business’s competitors of the advantages they’d naturally enjoy because of their exercise of superior efficiency. Put another way: to aid GM workers is to fuck Toyota’s American workforce.
Christopher Frizzelle is a sloppy thinker.
Why don’t the auto companies declare bankruptcy, do some major restructuring over a two or three year period, and come out the other end leaner, meaner and ready to compete? If their business model is even remotely viable, this should be an option on the table (and if it’s not, then why would we throw money at them?).
The Wall Street bailout was intended to free up the credit markets so that financial institutions would start lending again and the economy wouldn’t come to a screeching halt (the degree to which it has achieved this is up for debate, of course). And, what, exactly is the auto industry bailout supposed to do? Best guess is it will prop them up in the short-term, but how will it make them viable in the long-term?
The airline companies all had to go through bankruptcy re-structuring processes (jury is still out on how viable these companies will be in the long-term, of course). So, how exactly is the auto industry different?
Let Chrysler die, sell its few viable divisions, keep manufacturers of parts in business for ten years to supply current owners of Chrysler vehicles (idiots).
Take a controlling interest in Ford and GM with a bailout.
Fire the executives.
This is what would happen in a sane country. Unfortunately, we don’t live in a sane country.
Um, you guys realize the UAW jobs are the only thing that needs to be saved, right? We don’t need to save the executive jobs or the endless supply of Hummer H2’s. Just the good union jobs. Getting rid of the UAW would make any bailout pointless.
you don’t have to be anti-union to be anti-bailout. i’m glad the republicans stopped this even though i’m not 100% keen on the rationale. that said, the UAW should have been open to compromise, and there should have been prohibitions against golden parachutes, etc…
also funny is the pro-union sentiment. it’s like criticizing america in texas. what?!?! what did you say about the union! how dare you! if you don’t like unions, why don’t you work on weekends! one can appreciate the past contributions of unions while still criticizing the role they play in modern america.
this discussion is almost like an abortion thread on a christian site.
@33
Which the good people of GEORGIA saw fit to deny them.
Double EEEHAY!!
Hi Julie;)
“Good. Let’s let GM & Chrysler go belly-up, and sack all those lazy, over-paid, money-grubbing blue-collar unionistas – after all, what have labor unions EVER done for decent, hard-working, nose-to-the-grindstone computer programmers and municipal funds managers, eh?”
“Well, there’s the eight hour work day.”
“Oh. Yeah, yeah. They did give us that. Uh, that’s true. Yeah.”
“And weekends”
“Oh, yeah, weekends. Remember what the work week used to be like? Oh, right.”
“Yeah. All right. I’ll grant you the the eight-hour work day and weekends are two things that the unions have done.”
“And workplace safety.”
“Well, yeah. Obviously workplace safety. I mean, that goes without saying, don’t it? But apart from the eight-hour workday, weekends, and workplace safety — “
“Collective Bargaining.”
“Health and retirement benefits.”
“Yeah, yeah. All right. Fair enough.”
“And protection from unfair disciplinary actions.”
“Oh, yes. Yeah.”
“A living wage.”
“And upward mobility for the middle-class.”
“All right, but apart from the eight-hour work day, paid vacations, weekends, workplace safety, collective bargaining, health and retirement benefits, worker protections, a living wage, and upward mobility for the middle-class – what have the unions ever done for us?”
@43. I’m not sure “good union jobs” can continue to exist in their current form given the environment the US auto industry faces. Even the UAW has begun to realize that unless there are concessions made, the companies will fail and none of their workers will have jobs. The rationale is that it’s better to have a “mediocre union job” than no job at all.
Those damn lazy union workers. Why did they have to design such stupid cars?
@46
The horse drawn wagon did a lot for the country also.
You still riding in one?
eeeehay!
@40
Don’t be too hard on the girls at slug.
They aren’t really journalist, they just play one on the internet.
Anytime the topic moves beyond depravity, perversion and institutional homosexual whining they are way over their heads.