I’m a 16-year-old gay boy, comfortable with myself and my sexuality. I’m out at school, to my friends, basically everywhere except to my own family. A few months ago, I decided it was time to come out to my parents. I worked on possible counter-arguments to the fight I knew would happen—my parents are conservative Republicans both. When the time came, my dad was fine. He said it was my own life, I could take care of myself. My mother fought, and I fought back against the standard arguments I had prepared for. Then she produced an argument I couldn’t counter because it made so little sense to me that I couldn’t understand it enough to debate it: she said that gay people don’t exist. Gay people are just people who are so self-centered they can’t stand to be with someone in the least different from them, even at the level of gender. I kept attempting to argue, but she was stuck on her strange views. The next day was nearly silent. A similar routine happened a few weeks ago, when she found a gay book in my room. She immediately went to her winning argument from last time, and I had no idea how to dispute that. I want to come out, but how do I make her understand that I am something which, to her mind, doesn’t exist? I’m tired of being closeted, and I’ve tried to come out to her twice. I don’t know what to do at this point, and if I’ve done something wrong I don’t know what.
Unwilling Closet Case
P.S. I’m going to college next year in gifted program, but I plan on coming back home for the holidays. I’m considering leaving a letter for my mother on the day I leave outlining what I’m trying to say, but I don’t know if that’s the best idea. Anyway, thanks for reading this, and say hi to Terry for me!
My response after the jump…
You’re out to your family now, UCC, and your mom’s bullshit argument can’t change that.
And for what it’s worth: If dating, falling in love with, and marrying people who are similar to ourselves was evidence of mental illness or sexual deviancy, well, then most everybody’s a sicko. Fact is, UCC, people tend to settle down with people who are a lot like themselves—similar class backgrounds, political leanings, education levels, races, religions, etc. (Um, didn’t you mention that your parents are Republicans both?) If a pronounced preference for folks who are similar was one big step toward gayness, UCC, there would be a lot more more gay people running around.
Your mom is in denial, UCC, and don’t have to join her there. You’re gay, you’re out, it’s done. You also don’t have to beat your mom in an argument about gayness in order to come out. You don’t have to prove her wrong, you just have to be yourself. (Her argument didn’t make you less gay in the eyes of your friends, did it?) And the next time she tells you that gay people don’t exist, just smile and tell her that’s funny because she has a gay son, just like millions of other moms out there.
As for what makes people gay, you need to read—and your mom needs to read—Gay, Straight, and the Reason Why: The Science of Sexual Orientation, by Simon Levay. It’s an excellent book, and you can tuck that note you want to leave your mother inside the cover, and leave it on her pillow.—Dan
Thank you for listening. It’s nice to hear from someone supportive—and I’m going to try again. Third time’s the charm, right? Thank you again.—UCC
Don’t think of it as trying again, UCC. You’re out already.
And remember: parents sometimes have tantrums when their gay kids come out. Don’t make the mistake of writing your mom off just because she’s being a dick. Let her have her tantrum and tell her—like she told you back when you had tantrums—that you love her still. Hopefully your mom, like most moms, will come around. And if there’s a PFLAG chapter in your area—you can find the closest one here—urge your mom and your dad to attend a meeting.—Dan
Wow, conservatives are grabbing at straws for excuses nowadays.
It amazes me how far people will go to not accept the truth.
You are out now, UCC. Welcome to the Family! We’ve been waiting for you!
Such sweet, patient advice. Your approach was very gentle. No, once you’ve come out you don’t need to repeat until everyone smiles; no, don’t try to figure out how to prove to your mom that you exist, because, er, you do.
Gifted program, huh? I wonder what in.
and just a fyi, a glittery pink toaster oven on its way to you UCC.
*wink*
Want to win the argument? Be yourself and continue to be out and proud. And like Dan said, just tell her you love her -even if she is wrong.
Maybe UCC’s family could try a little less argument & debate, and a little more listening. I’m struck by the way he dismisses Dan’s response outright, saying “I’m going to try again. Third time’s the charm, right?”
Sometimes life isn’t about winning. Just do what you love, UCC, and don’t try to control other people’s opinions.
I think it’s telling that so many of today’s arguments against gayness congeal around a core of “gay people are hateful” and “the gay lifestyle is a lifestyle of hate.” It’s as though the people making those arguments are unconsciously projecting themselves through everything they say.
Or maybe it isn’t unconscious. It seems to be a constant ploy these days for the Incorrect Wing to take everything that they actually do and behave, agreeing with the Left that those things are bad, and then falsely accuse the Left Wing of being exactly those things while trying desperately to absolve themselves of them. (eg: “We aren’t racist, we didn’t vote for a man just because he’s black like you all.” or “We aren’t hateful, we’re just defending ourselves from your evil, rabid attacks that have absolutely no justification in the world.”)
You could always tell her that as far as you’re concerned, conservative Republicans don’t exist either, they’re just people who are too selfish to accept those who are different from them.
You don’t need anyone’s permission. You are who you are. That’s enough.
I actually heard that argument from my mom the first time I came out. She called me a narcissist (among other things) and insisted that since all my friends were girls that this “same sex attraction” had everything do with egomania and vanity but not romantic attraction. I went back in the closet for 6 years. NOW she’s a PFLAG supporter and wants to know more about my love life than I’m willing to tell her. Although she did say something similar “jokingly” after she met a tall, nerdy, bespectacled guy I was dating. I let it slide.
UCC: You’re incredibly brave and I’m glad your dad is being cool. Your mother might blame herself, since many conservatives feel like being gay has something to do with smothering mothers and distant fathers. If you had a close relationship before she may feel guilt and betrayal. Knowing that doesn’t make it better, but it might explain where she’s coming from.
Kudos to you and good luck.
UCC- Your mom’s *opinion* comes from that of the Choicers, ie: all people are straight, but some CHOOSE to be gay. In her mind, there are no gay people, just straight people who have CHOSEN to be gay. This is the place parents go when first told- “It’s a phase, he’ll grow out of it. He just wants attention, etc.” My father is a good example of this: 25 years after I came out to him, he still expects me to walk in someday with ‘the right woman’ and poof- I’m straight ‘like I always was’.
PLEASE- don’t waste another second trying to convince your mom that it’s not a choice; the Choicers refuse to listen to millions of GLBT folk’s personal experiences, much less their own children. You’re wasting your time trying to ‘win’ this argument. I’ve never won it with my dad.
Oh hon. Coming out is not an argument. You don’t need to convince her that gayness exists. Her argument boils down to covering her ears and yelling “LALALA I CAN’T HEAR YOU.” Dan’s right. The only response that argument merits is, “Um … too bad for you.”
Don’t waste any more time trying to win an argument with your mom. You can’t. What she is saying is not based on any sound logic, and you can’t ‘win’ the argument using any kind of counter-logic. For whatever reason, she’s not able to accept it right now, and that is just the rationalizing nonsense spilling out of her mouth. The actual words she’s saying is almost completely irrelevant.
You’ve come out. It’s done. You are far braver than I was when I was sixteen.
It is now up to your parents to accept it or not accept it. Your father seems to have accepted it. Your mom… apparently not. Don’t give up. Lots of parents aren’t accepting at first, but learn to understand and accept over time. Don’t try to force it. This is her journey at this point. She’ll either get over it or not, and there isn’t a whole lot you can do to affect that. You just have to be yourself, live your life, and be open to her acceptance when and if she gets there.
PFLAG helped my parents a great deal when I came out. I strongly encourage your parents to check it out.
Dan, based on the letters you’re received over the years and kids you’ve talked to, I’m curious…do you think a gay kid’s father has a much harder time accepting him when he comes out than his mother does? That would be my guess. I would guess that a father would typically be more disappointed in, or hostile to, a son “not being a real man.”
And, if that is the case, then I wonder if mothers have a more difficult time than fathers with their daughter being a lesbian.
@14,
I read a study about a year ago on this subject. (I’m not gonna try to find citation right now). My recollection was that statistically, far more fathers reject gay children than mothers. And gay boys are far more likely to be rejected than gay girls. But both are statistical odds. There will of course be a minority of instances where fathers are more accepting than mothers (as is the case with UCC here), or with gay boys being more acceptable to some parents than gay girls.
@14 I don’t get letters, but I doubt fathers in general behave differently than mothers.
@13 and Dan. You are right: UCC, get your Dad to drag your Mom to PFLAG. I bet it will work. She will meet people like herself, and she will be unable to dismiss them and what they say. She’ll relax.
Hey, UCC: after you have gone, leave the book & note, & send your mom a link to this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJtjqLUHY…
It may seem simple, but for people who feel that sexuality is a choice, not a biological predisposition, this is sometimes helpful. It’s won the discussion for me a couple of times.
Your mom might come around, she might not..but like Dan said, yer out! No need to keep coming out. Have fun at school, meet people, play safe & I’m happy that your dad is supportive.
Dan – so well said. I wish I had had access to your sagacity when I was a confused young’un’.
@8 FTW! Except that would be closing a door on her. So UCC, congratulations on coming out. You are now officially DONE coming out to your family, and good for you. Let it go and stop trying. What you’ve done reveals maturity, strength, self-confidence, and power, and that is always worth celebrating. Trying to get her to accept it is (at the moment) futile, but it probably won’t always be. My folks thought it was a “phase” when my brother came out to them at 17… for about a year. And then they were fine with it. According to my mother, the reason she had such a hard time accepting it is because (and these are her words) “if he’s gay then that means he thinks women are worthless.” In other words, my mother tied his coming out to her OWN fear of worthlessness. It had nothing to do with my brother and everything to do with her. It’s possible that your mom feels that way too. Your best option is to live your own true life and don’t ever bother trying to convince her of anything.
Oooh! An opportunity at last!
DTMA.
Here’s my advice: Since she thinks you’re just narcissistic, come home with someone the exact opposite of you, with the exception of his gender. For example, if you’re a skinny, white, musical theatre nerd (which is what I’m picturing because that’s what I was at 16), bring home a huge, burly, non-white rugby player and introduce him as your boyfriend. Not only will you win the argument, but you’ll get to watch your mom pass out in terror.
Bonus points if the huge, burly, non-white rugby player is ACTUALLY your boyfriend.
Gay people don’t exist? That’s silly. Everyone knows that it’s *bisexual* people who don’t exist. Sheesh.
You’re doing the best you can. Keep on fighting the good, horrifying fight. Also: hello. Long time lurker/first time poster.
Hasa Diga EEbowai
@19
Huh? Whaa??
@20
And then send pics! 😀
The next time you debate her, just cite René Descartes: I twink therefore I am.
@19: Well played, sir!
Be gentle with your mom, but also don’t tolerate any of her B.S. either. It sounds like you are a much stronger person than your mother is… that will take some time to digest fully.
If you must address the actual substance of your argument, you can point out to her that interracial relationships are more common among gay men than among straight people, and even more common among lesbians than among gay men.
You can also point out that there are gay couples with age differences, and political differences, some couples where one of them is a twink/femme and the other is a bear/butch etc. etc.
Not that her argument even makes any sense or you should feel the *need* to address it. But even if you accept her bizarre logic, the facts still don’t support her case.
@15 I don’t think that it’s that uncommon for a mother to be more disapproving than a father. I have a friend whose father is a white American, and his mother is Korean – she was much more disapproving of him being gay than his father.
I’ve also read that father’s seem to invest more in their sons being heterosexual (as it reflects more on them in their minds, that they instilled heterosexuality into their sons) than in their daughters, so it may be that there’s more of a difference between fathers and mothers with sons than with daughters.
But obviously the example I gave and the letter writer are cases with a son whose father is more accepting than the mother.
Following up what @7 said about projection, could there be a better example than this mother saying that HE can’t stand to be around someone different from him?
As others have said: don’t try to win. Stick to your guns, but your goal isn’t to convince her that she’s wrong; your goal is for her to get over her fears and treat you as a mother should treat a son.
The reason your dad is ok with you being gay is because your mom is keeping his lizard drained. “I learned from you, Mom, ok?”
Something nobody else has mentioned: maybe not now, but eventually, be sure to tell your dad “thanks”. He sounds like a good guy.
Perfect, Dan.
5280 is one of the best persons you could ever know.
Your Mom will eventually come around.
Your mom is having denial. Adults aren’t always as mature as you’d wish they were, and your mom is embarrassing herself. One day she might look back with regret, ashamed that she was so stupid when you could have used her support. I feel bad for you because she’s what you have to work with. Hopefully she can get over herself, realize it’s not about her, and you can just love each other the way a family should.
Best of luck to you.
I agree with #37 that your mom is in denial.
Later on, se may deny she ever said these things. “No, no, no! I was fine with you being gay. What could you be thinking. Your boyfriend is charming and I’m lucky to have him as part of the family.”
When she gets to this point, and she probably will, let her. Pretend she never said the stupid stuff she’s saying now. It’s your gift to her, okay?
Dan Savage fans might want to check out the NY Times article “Married, with Infidelities” that is basically all about Dan’s views on relationships and monogamy
http://tinyurl.com/6yznyu2
The comment section is *really* frustrating… so many people completely missing Dan’s points…
@8 Ricardo, your comments are consistently awesome
I got the “narcissism” argument from Ma for being straight, in my forties and unmarried. Pissed me off for a while, ’cause nothing stings like family, but got over it. The idea that who you are is simply a character fault is ridiculous on its face and should just be treated as such.
“Gay people don’t exist.” Wow. That’s the most sweeping example of denial that I’ve ever heard. Literally interpreted, a consummately ridiculous statement, intended to browbeat the listener into an acceptance of falsity for the sake of the speaker’s personal convenience. It’s the Michael Bay of gay denial.
You did your part, UCC. You’re out, you got that way without hedging bets or mincing words. You were straight up. And it’s kind of out of your hands now. Acceptance from your mom will happen, you just might have to be prepared that it might take some processing on your mom’s end. You did what you could. You owe nothing more. Live your life and let the others come around.
i think we are emotionally selfish. we do not want others to take a critical approach. no body likes to be taught to follow others.
live pakistan news
You can always enjoy a little passive resistance. “You’re right mom, my boyfriend Biff and I are just both self-centered. Oh well! We’re off to P-Town. Mwah.”
Once you’ve humored her argument and continue to live exactly as you have been, she’ll kind of stand there deflated and just watch. No more fighting to give her a distraction from the reality in front of her. And eventually she’ll just realize what a dope she’s been.
One more bit of advice: don’t ask your dad to argue with your mother on your behalf. He’s in a TOUGH spot: he wants to support you but doesn’t want to hurt her. Mom’s gonna freak out for about a year and nothing can stop her – not you, not dad, not PFLAG pamphlets (although they probably can’t hurt). Just step out of the way and let her get it out of her system.
Dan, your son is a lucky kid to have such a sweet and patient Dad!
UCC,
You’re a rock star my dear. Congrats on coming out, TWICE! That takes so much courage and you should be holding your head up high.
Best of luck with your mom. I’m sure she loves you but conservatism can be inhibit compassion at times. Give her time and always be yourself. You are loved here at Slog amongst many other places!
And, hey if Christmas doesn’t pan out, you’re always welcome to be yourself at my house! I am a fantastic cook!
MUAH!
#24: Dump the Mother Already.
UCC, just go about your business, and tell your mother you’re not going to argue with her about it. You don’t have to make sense to her in order for you to be happy. It’ll be easier to realize this once you’ve moved out. If she insists on trying to make your life difficult after a while, you might find other relatives to visit for the holidays. That’s what I started doing, and it was a real wakeup call for my mother.
At least your dad has your back! That counts for a lot.
honey, this is your song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lupNzpcpD…
UCC, a small handful of years ago I was in a similar situation with my family, and I remember how it feels. You’re convinced that if you can only come up with the right words, the right logical argument to cut down your mom’s objections, then this battle will be over – because she HAS to accept logic, right?
Nope. That’s not how this process works – and it is a *process.* A long one, for most people. It’s not a problem of logic. It’s an emotional problem.
I know this is hard to hear, but your mom is not going to be won over by any logical argument anytime soon. You want her to accept that you’re gay, as your father did, but it’s not going to happen just yet – that’s what YOU will have to learn to accept, temporarily. You should tell her everything you can come up with to refute her claims, and you should follow Dan’s advice to present her with resources. Then you’ll have to step back and give your mom some time to sit with all of that information. She may need a long time – I’m talking months and maybe years – to absorb and accept it.
But in the end, arguments are not what will make her come around to the truth. Her love for you, over time, is the only thing that can do that. And if she still hasn’t gotten over her shit by the time you go to college next year, I suggest you take Dan’s standard advice for LGBT teens with homophobic parents: use your presence her her life as leverage. Spend as little vacation time at home as possible, and tell your mom you’re doing it because you don’t want to live in a home where your homosexuality isn’t accepted. That should motivate her to reconcile her mind to the truth.
Good luck!
Congratulations for breaking your mom’s heart, Sport!
Give it time;
Here’s how it will work-
Vice is a monster of so frightful mien,
As to be hated needs but to be seen;
Yet seen too oft, familiar with her face,
we first endure, then pity, then embrace…
In time your mom will embrace you,
you disgusting perverted little deviant.
UCC – Your mom just can’t reconcile the person you are with the ideas she’s been told and has believed all your life. “Gay” has always been an abstraction to her, an idea, a thing. It’s never been a person, and certainly not a person she loves.
Live your life, love your mom, and she will eventually put the idea and the person together in her head. She will realize she can’t change you, which is what she’s trying to do now (because she still thinks she can). She will also realize she must love and accept you as you are, and if she doesn’t you can no longer be a part of her life. It will take time, but I think it will happen.
It sucks, and it’s not fair, but that’s the way it is. Best of luck to you.
@ 18 – If you complete the sentence with “See, mom, how ridiculous that line of argument is? Please don’t use it again with me”, a normally intelligent person would understand that he/she said something stupid and apologize, and I don’t think the door would be closed, at least not for more than a few hours or days.
@ 40 – Thanks!