Alert Slog readers noticed that my numerous posts about Marlee Ginter’s inaccurate, sloppy, lying, sexphobic hit piece on the Center for Sex Positive Culture have been… amended. References to a certain breed of ruminant that shall remain nameless are out, replaced by a bracketed reference to Ginter’s professed profession.
So, like, why?
I said that we wanted Ginter to retract and apologize—to the Center, to author Brian Alexander, to the viewers she and Dan Lewis lied to. The piece is already off KOMO’s website, but Ginter and Lewis and KOMO haven’t, so far as I’m aware, retracted the piece or apologized.
Now here’s what happened behind the scenes: their lawyer called our lawyer in the middle of last week and asked us to stop being so darn mean. There was no threat of litigation because there wasn’t any grounds for litigation—there were no copyright problems, no defamation issues, no liability on our part whatsoever, and the over the top stuff—some of the posts, the videos, references to ruminants—was clearly parody. So… that’s where the lawyer-to-lawyer interactions ended. Then on Friday KOMO’s general manager called and appealed to… well, you’re never going to believe this. He appealed to our humanity. That’s right, our humanity. Ginter was very, very, very, very upset and wouldn’t we pretty please take her feelings into consideration and stop suggesting that she might be [a damn fine journalist]? Please?
And that’s why Slog has been goat free since Sunday night. I know this answer won’t satisfy some, and that it seems wildly out of character, but we’re actually being… considerate. More considerate of Ginter’s feelings than she’s been of anyone else’s. Now we don’t have to be nice, and, after the hatchet job they did on Center, Ginter and KOMO have no right to expect gentle treatment.
I reserve the right to restore the posts to their original state—so the handful of Ginterphiles lurking in comments screaming and yelling about how we’re gonna get our pants sued off might want to 1. talk to a lawyer and 2. refrain from pushing it. Ginter wants this [damn fine journalist] stuff to go away, after all, so you’re not doing her any favors if you provoke me into putting all those [damn fine journalist] references back up.
Sure.
@100 marlee would have an excellent case that dan was acting “with malice” by jamming the web with these references to sucking off goats, so that when you google her name that is what comes up on top. that clearly was meant to damage her and hurt her career, future earnings, etc. if a public figure can demonstrate malice, she can successfully sue for libel. and it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that dan got threatened with a lawsuit and backed down. 100, don’t go lecturing about the law when you are ignorant of it yourself.
go for it, dug.
I have a sense that most people are generally good. And that given the opportunity to apologize for a misdeed, most people would do so… even if it takes some time for them to realize their misdeed.
In this case, Dan’s response was so swift and directed, MG was left no room for contrition, only self-defense. She can’t apologize, because, by our demands, we have made it impossible for her to claim that her apology is her own idea, instead of a response under duress.
I would suggest we stop with the references to our four-legged feta friend.
We are human after all.
I am a member of the Center for Sex Positive Culture.
Can’t win with these posters, can you? Oh well, that’s life!
Now that this is ending I want to take a look at it’s effects. Who won and who lost.
Dan Savage and The Stranger are big winners. Page hits and views result in advertising dollars. That’s what this was about. It was a slow week. Savage turned a non-issue into a raging controversy to generate traffic to his website. He created a piece of theater to keep his readers entertained. Every view and every post, including this one, helped to put money into his pocket.
KOMO also wins for the same reason. People visited their site to watch the story, view Ginter’s profile, watch her past work and send a ton of hate mail. Increased viewership and web traffic result in greater advertising dollars.
The Sex Center wins. Their director is bragging a few posts up about how great this has been for them. All publicity is good publicity. The story was mild. Ginter did far more good than harm in her reporting. The center gets a ton of publicity and a ton of donatations. Why do you suppose they didn’t take action against KOMO? Because they weren’t harmed.
Ginter as a professional wins. She continues to make a name for herself in this town as a hard nosed journalist. Like it or not, her story was fair. She never had anything to apologize for. Her station never issued a retraction. She stood up to a bully and won. SLOG readers may not like it, but in mainstream culture (where most news viewers live) being attacked by The Stranger is a sign that you are doing something right.
Now for the losers.
SLOG readers are big losers here. You should expect more. While this was fun performance art, there was no real substance. An intelligent debate could have been framed, instead you got crass insults. This site has the power to educate and inform, instead you get juvenile name calling. You deserve better.
Free Speech loses. This site is stifling when it threatens to attack anyone with an unpopular view. (An interesting tactic for a minority group hoping to move their own points of view into the mainstream.)
Marlee Ginter as a person loses. Who would want to deal with this crap? I read on this site that she is a single mother. I suspect that it’s hard enough raising a family on her own without having to endure the petty harassment of Dan Savage. She works to support her kids. Threats to her job are threats to her family.
What woman would want to read all of the threats on this site? I can only imagine what was in the hate mail you sent her. On this site I saw racial slurs, vulgar attacks, and numerous threats to rape her. Yes, when you threaten to perform involuntary sex acts to her, you are threatening to rape her. Maybe they intend to rape her, maybe it was “satire”. Either way she has to live with those threats in the back of her mind.
The biggest losers in all of this are the Ginter children. Did you read the vile threats made to her kids? The Stranger deleted them after about a day, but the damage was done. Someone directly threatened one of her children with specific information. I read it. Thousands of people read it. At that point the Stranger should have pulled the plug, but the page hits were good and the money was coming in, so the show went on.
Kids can be cruel, but apparently Dan Savage, The Stranger and a portion of the readership don’t feel that kids are cruel enough. Google Ginter’s name and see what pops up. Think about what happens when her kids classmates google her. They will, she is on tv. Think about the years of harassment they will have to endure because of these childish attacks. The Stranger may have changed a few words, but it’s still out there. In posts above people are bragging about this, and hoping to continue it.
At first I was inclined to give Savage a pass on this one. Chalk it up as an unintended consequence. Then one of the posts on this site informed me that Savage is a father. Surely he has dealt with this same issue. He has been attacked in the past. I can only imagine what his children will have to endure because of the things that are said about their father. It is not fair to his children, and it is certainly not fair to Ginters children. Their only crime was that their mom was an easy target on a slow news week when a website needed to make some money.
But hey, if some innocent kids need to suffer so Dan Savage can make a buck, so be it.
Just my opinion. I look forward to all of the “outrage” it will generate. I know Dan Savage will be happy for the page hits.
I don’t want to hear any more whining from you about hack journalism. Not one freakin’ word.
You had these asswipes. They were in the wrong, totally, clearly in the wrong. They lied, they did some creative editting, and they misled the subject of their hack job, and the people who watched the broadcast.
I loved your attack, and that’s what it was, and I don’t mean that in a bad way, and it’s what they deserved.
Marlee Ginter, and Dan Lewis, and KOMO owed the Center and Mr. Andrews, and the viewers an apology, and a retraction. But as far as we can see, there has been no apology, no retraction, not even an admission that perhaps they misled the people about the story they presented. By taking it off their website, they are not admitting they made a mistake, but trying to hide the evidence.
You were making an excellent example of them, using their own tactics, and it was justified, and you had us with you. After all the politics, after all the division over Prop 8, we were once again united rallying for Dan, going after the bad guys.
But they cried foul, THEY had the nerve to cry foul, and you backed down.
Everyone is saying that they learned a lesson. I see no lesson learned here. I see that if you say pretty please, Dan Savage – what a misnomer -will back down. Someone should tell the Mormons, and the Californian African Americans.
But the part of this that smells the worst, is that you want us to believe that you did this because you’re a nice guy. I don’t think so, Dan. I just don’t think so.
A filippino Pig Christian like Ginter has learned a valuable lesson. Sex negative Christians had better not mess with Dan Savage.
A a Jew living in Racist, Sexist, Sex Negative Seattle, I appreciate having an advocate on our side. When I moved here from Manhattan I was told how backwards Seattle is, but The Stranger is a breath of fresh air. A pro-Jewish, pro-Sex voice in the wilderness.
The filipino Christian Pig Ginter should leave town. Pig Christians and their piglets are not welcome here, lipstick or no lipstick. The Stranger rules Seattle now. Mazel Tov!
neat.
@106 – Oh no, we are not gonna go there. She doesn’t get to play the single mom card, and common sense, you are not going to play it for her.
I read what you said, and my heart started to go out to her. See, I’m a single mom, and I’m just trying to make a living and support my child too.
But here’s the thing. Before my daughter was born, I did do a few stupid things, maybe stuff I’m not so proud of. I never hurt anybody, and I didn’t break any laws – possibly bent a few, but harmless, stupid stuff. After my daughter was born, I decided I would live my life like she was watching me all the time, even if she wasn’t. I try to take the moral, ethical high road as often as I can. I don’t claim to be perfect, and if/when I make a mistake, or wrong someone, I apologize, and I tell my daughter to do the same, and I am happy to have been told by her teachers that she is very respectful of others.
Marlee Ginter is a public figure, as you pointed out. And when you’re in the public eye, and trusted to deliver the news, fairly and impartially, you should do so. If your bosses tell you to fabricate lies, you should refuse to do so. And if you do something wrong, you should own up to it. Set an example for your children.
And if you don’t, and someone calls you out on it, and it ends up in the public eye, and your children and their friends see it, then suck it up, Princess. Karma’s a bitch.
As Jews we have an obligation of Tikkun Olam. This Filipino Christian Pig Ginter chose to say it’s not right to use public money to finance a sex club.
Christians are always anti-sex. So it is our duty in Tikkun Olam to teach this Christian Pig in lipstick, Ginter a lesson about Seattle. Ginter should have thought about her children before reporting anything anti-sex in Seattle.
The Stranger is the only consistently anti-Christian publication in Seattle. It takes balls to attack these Christian idiots and their children, but Dan Savage has always had balls enough to stand up for what’s right.
If we keep up the attacks on Slog we can run the Filipino Christian pig in lipstick out of our town, she can pack up her Christian piglets and move to rural America.
Seattle is getting more like Manhattan where I moved from. We hate Christians there. Mazel Tov!
Her feelings were that hurt by an obvious parody suggesting she might suck off goats? Christ this woman needs a thicker skin.
KOMO is selectively refusing to pass on donations made me through its Problem Solvers webpage to people or organizations featured on it’s program.
I just got an e-mail that contained this:
KOMO is retuning or crediting your contribution to the Center for Positive Sex Culture or the Foundation for Positive Sex Culture.
Dan, I too am very, very upset. Please put the gloves back on and give them what they deserve
@97 Props to you for having a balanced view of the situation. You’re a grown up. Yay!
Dan,
I, too, received the email returning/crediting my donations to the “Center for Positive Sex Culture” and “the Foundation for Positive Sex Culture.” Notice that KOMO didn’t even get the names right?!?! And they have done this only after having the combined total of the donations kept in their accounts for a week and collecting interest on them! (Ok, so that is probably a small amount, but it is still the principle of the issue.)
What have they been doing? Trying to find a way to legally redirect donated funds clearly marked as designated “to help someone featured in one of our stories,” as explicitly stated on their website?
There are still no disclaimers on the KOMO site about their selectivity of donations they receive. How many other organizations or individuals featured in their “Problem Solvers” stories have they maliciously declared unworthy of donations due to their own personal and corporate biases? How many donations from other people have been redirected by KOMO away from the intended recipient of some story they have done in the past? Perhaps they were less clearly identified as for a specific individual/group or left a window of potential for KOMO’s interpretation. How many donations were sent in for CSPC or FSPC that KOMO found a way to redirect rather than refund? How can a publicly operated “News” organization bound by the licensing rules of the FCC demonstrate such clear and malicious bias with impunity?
I donated to both the CSPC and the FSPC, so any potential claim that it is because of the CSPC’s 501(c)7 status, rather than 501(c)3, would be irrelevant for returning my Foundation donation. Either of the organizations are still legally recognized as able to accept donations by the IRS. That cannot be said of the vast majority of stories on KOMO’s “Problem Solvers” or the individuals involved. How dare they misrepresent themselves and their “Problem Solvers” as intending to benefit the community when they obviously only intend to benefit those with whom they agree, all while defaming everyone who believes otherwise?!?!? That’s not news; it’s propaganda!
The talking asses at KOMO are choosing to refuse donations to organizations that have been legitimately recognized by the IRS as non-profit and charitable organizations.
You were too kind, Dan, when you wrote that only “Marlee Ginter Might Be Blowing Goats,” and you were certainly too quick to be gracious and compassionate to her in the end. Notice they waited until you did so before they “returned” what they deemed to be unsuitable donations?
I agree with #113. You need to put the gloves back on. AND This time, make them pay in currency! Don’t take down or back off on the “Goat Blowing” reports and anything else you come up with until KOMO itself has paid CSPC and FSPC all the money for which they legitimately received donations through the “Problem Solvers Donation Page.” Allena Gabosch should have receipts from many people who forwarded them to her. I want to see KOMO pay from THEIR OWN Pockets this time!
Seriously, Dan. If KOMO can be allowed to continue to misrepresent, distort, and fabricate “stories” like this to defame others all in an effort for sensationalism and ratings, who is going to be next? Who is deciding what is “news” here in Seattle? If this kind of behavior–from KOMO or any of the other “news” organizations–is allowed to continue unchecked, it will be our own PNW version of Joseph McCarthy!
Please help us fight off this latest version of McCarthyism, Dan!
Bwahhahahhahahaha. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won. KOMO won.
@106, I am a member of the CSPC and I feel that a place I love has been attacked unfairly in the mainstream press. That piece was not accurate, and it was not ‘fair’ by any sense of the word I understand. I am a loser here. And I don’t appreciate having my justifiable anger sacrificed on the altar of poor Ms. Ginter’s wounded feelings and the delicate sensibilities of her children.
My membership fees are not tax-deductible. Portraying the center as a sex-club is a misleading half-truth. Using fake cheesy soft-porn and passing it off as a center activity is an insult. Calling Allena an ‘owner’ is a flat out lie. Saying that she’s looking for state or federal funding for anything is also a big fat lie.
I do not insist that any piece about the center be positive. But I do insist that pieces at least not blatantly lie, and do not engage in creative editing to twist people’s words into saying things they did not mean.
On the one hand, Ms. Ginter simply got back the same that she gave, but it is never wrong to show mercy when you have the position of power. I believe that Ms. Ginter will think twice before creating further defamatory work. You have shown her what it feels like to be on the receiving end.
I think targetting one journalist who *might* be inept and deceitful is justifiable but, ultimately, ineffective in changing the culture which led to what *might* have been such a deliberately deceitful report.
The management at KOMO must have approved that story. They have removed it but they haven’t retracted it or apologized for it. Until they do, I suggest that some people *might* stop watching KOMO News on the basis that they *might* never know when KOMO News is telling the truth or deliberately misleading the viewers. Some people *might* want to switch to some other news program.