Alert Slog readers noticed that my numerous posts about Marlee Ginter’s inaccurate, sloppy, lying, sexphobic hit piece on the Center for Sex Positive Culture have been… amended. References to a certain breed of ruminant that shall remain nameless are out, replaced by a bracketed reference to Ginter’s professed profession.
So, like, why?
I said that we wanted Ginter to retract and apologize—to the Center, to author Brian Alexander, to the viewers she and Dan Lewis lied to. The piece is already off KOMO’s website, but Ginter and Lewis and KOMO haven’t, so far as I’m aware, retracted the piece or apologized.
Now here’s what happened behind the scenes: their lawyer called our lawyer in the middle of last week and asked us to stop being so darn mean. There was no threat of litigation because there wasn’t any grounds for litigation—there were no copyright problems, no defamation issues, no liability on our part whatsoever, and the over the top stuff—some of the posts, the videos, references to ruminants—was clearly parody. So… that’s where the lawyer-to-lawyer interactions ended. Then on Friday KOMO’s general manager called and appealed to… well, you’re never going to believe this. He appealed to our humanity. That’s right, our humanity. Ginter was very, very, very, very upset and wouldn’t we pretty please take her feelings into consideration and stop suggesting that she might be [a damn fine journalist]? Please?
And that’s why Slog has been goat free since Sunday night. I know this answer won’t satisfy some, and that it seems wildly out of character, but we’re actually being… considerate. More considerate of Ginter’s feelings than she’s been of anyone else’s. Now we don’t have to be nice, and, after the hatchet job they did on Center, Ginter and KOMO have no right to expect gentle treatment.
I reserve the right to restore the posts to their original state—so the handful of Ginterphiles lurking in comments screaming and yelling about how we’re gonna get our pants sued off might want to 1. talk to a lawyer and 2. refrain from pushing it. Ginter wants this [damn fine journalist] stuff to go away, after all, so you’re not doing her any favors if you provoke me into putting all those [damn fine journalist] references back up.
Oh wait, I meant to say that she blows [a damn fine journalist].
Sooo… we can still send angry letters demanding an apology and a retraction from the [damn fine journalist], right?
Thanks for the update – I was sending reference links to my proofreader friend before I sent in my angry letter and was wondering where the goat posts went.
A lesson was learned, despite the lack of clear-cut retribution. We got a (or another) lesson about shitty journalism. Ginter probably (hopefully, maybe) will think again before spinning a bunch of bullshit, and reusing and misplacing old interviews. Seems like a good place to end it. I was entertained. I’m somewhat proud that Dan let it go like this. What was to be gained if it had continued? Not much.
@48: Uh, most of us are held to the same standard. Or do you have some kind of job where you’re encouraged to deliberately distort facts when you don’t find reality to your liking? I guess it’s okay if you only do it once in a while, right?
Thank god all that goat blowing shits been taken down. NSFW. I can now resume slog watching at work until the next ruminant quadroped incident.
I think you should put the goat shit back up until there is a retraction. Local news needs to be put on notice, that the culture of fear is out of business.
Where’s the apology? What are KOMO and Ginter? The Leibermans of media? And you represent the Democratic party?
I’m calling bullshit. You overplayed your hand perhaps but I’d prefer you stuck to your guns.
You can attach all the verbiage you want to the cowardly deed of abandoning your campaign against Marlee Ginter but we see you.
Playing artful bomber goes south real quick if you’re not discriminating enough to take on the sure-win battles and fan on the well matched ones.
You know you didn’t feel like showing up for court all the time and burning through the war chest over this transient dummy who’s not even going to work in this market in 18 months. I may be mistaken but it even seems you got soft on your own journalistic ethics back pedaling off this one (quietly editing your blog posts instead of amending and noting them?)
Go fry some bigger fish with fewer legal resources I guess, but I really wish you’d roll up your sleeves and playout the fight you just picked more admirably.
Great news. Now I can go back to blowing goats without it having the tawdry connotations that this shameful rag brought to mind.
My mouth and my goat thank you.
You’re right — I’ll never believe it. But I’m satisfied that this is as much as I’ll know and I’m glad you didn’t just clam up about it. Thanks for schooling the big kids.
That goat is so cute. I love goats, but not enough to sexually service them, contrary to popular opinion.
I’m so sorry I overreached myself in that sex club story. I’m a young woman trying to make a career for myself, and I had some encouragement from management to just “go for it” on that sex club story. I’m sorry. I’m from the midwest, and didn’t know any better. I will endeavor to do better in future. Once again, my sincerest apologies to anyone I might have hurt.
@61
Yeah that’s nice. Nice and safe at #61 in a comments thread on a blog. Have you called Mr. Alexander yet? The way you treated him is the main thing that pissed me off.
@17
nice link in the name
@61, if you’re going to fake post, at least get the facts right:
Marlee Ginter joined KOMO-TV as a reporter in August 2007. Marlee was born in the Philippines, and later moved with her family to the United States. She grew up in New York and later moved to Florida… Growing up on the East Coast, I never knew I was missing out on such a beautiful place.
http://www.komonews.com/about/people/fou…
Fucking stupid douchebag.
So, let’s review.
Dan didn’t like a story on the tv news. Dan threw a big ol’ hissy fit and said a lot of nasty things about a reporter on his blog, while demanding an apology. A lawyer and a station manager told him that he’s being a douchebag and to knock it off. They NEVER apologized or issued a retraction or correction. Dan changed the posts on Sunday, but didn’t say why until Monday afternoon when commenters had taunted him enough. Then, he threatens in said post that he might (gasp) actually “restore the posts to their original state” if any commenters or “Ginterphiles” *dare* provoke him on this any further.
Nice work. You should get a big fat Christmas bonus for this fine piece of journalism.
Bullying behavior can be identified as early as pre-school age, and some children who are bullies continue this behavior into adulthood. Most children learn to control their anger and fighting instincts as they grow older, but not the bully. Bullies have particular behavior and personality traits.
* greater than average aggressive behavior patterns
* the desire to dominate peers
* the need to feel in control, to win
* no sense of remorse for hurting another child
* a refusal to accept responsibility for his/her behavior
#66:
Don’t forget that bullies are usually leaders of dimwitted packs.
“so is it still okay to email nasty letters to KOMO?”
Really? Really?
It’s fun and amusing to blow this particular news story by KOMO out of proportion, but we should be talking about the bigger lies told to us by not only the local, but the national media. And the control of information that occurs during media consolidation.
Anyone that puts their hope into local nightly news as the bastion of journalistic integrity and content are full of unrealistic expectations, egregiously uninformed or ignorant. The format alone of local nightly news only allows for fluff journalism, let alone the management and production decisions from the station heads. Live reporter on the street: entertaining, yes. truly informative, no. The sex club story: who would honestly remember this if The Stranger didn’t make it explode? Marlee Ginter: it’s the institution of media and local news that is to blame. She’s only doing what she’s been taught at the station and college. Not everyone is Howard Beale (“I’m mad as hell! And I’m not going to take it anymore!” – Network [1976]) or Edward Murrow (Good Night, and Good Luck [2005]).
The Stranger feeds off the mistakes of other institutions: media, political, and other; and rightfully so. I would even say that The Stranger battles the tyranny of the majority, local and national. But because The Stranger makes no claim (or desire I think) to be the bastion of journalistic integrity, it is sometimes hard to swallow and sift through the irony and sarcasm that borders on tyranny.
But the fact that The Stranger, an independent alternative newspaper, has the power to be tyrannical, is mighty impressive.
In a nutshell, don’t blame the silly news reporter, blame the institution of media, which IS changeable. I hope.
http://www.freepress.net
http://www.reclaimthemedia.org
http://www.mediamatters.org
@58
Sammie Cheese is right on. Sammie hit the nail on the head. The Stranger is gutless. The Stranger is a cowardly spent force, impotent, and all used up. Fuck the Stranger. Long live the King.
Call it Schadenfreude if you want, but I admit to getting some pleasure watching the Savage have his ass handed to him and trying to save face with a pathetic explanation several days after the fact. Marlee Ginter surely hasn’t learned anything from this, except that Dan Savage is an asshole. But Savage maybe, possibly learned that you better think twice before you bully someone mercilessly who actually has access to a team of lawyers. In any case, Savage really lost all credibility with this one. If you were a real man, you’d at least admit the truth instead of pretending you censored all your posts, without even an apology from KOMO, just “to be nice.” LAME
You shouldn’t have changed the posts. You should have told KOMO to fuck off, let it drop, moved on to other things, and let the posts stand. Your decision was wrong and cowardly and sends KOMO the wrong message.
See what I get for being nice-ish?
I made my point, I pounded it home. They asked us to please not saddle Ginter with “goat blower” for the rest of her natural life, so we tweaked the posts. And now I’ve had my ass handed to me, caved, etc. Sheesh.
Let’s hope she learns the true spirit of [damn fine journalism] and produces a more sex-positive piece next time.
The real reason Dan gave up the fight was to put all his attention and resources into the Savage vs. Kutcher fight. I can’t wait to read more of that fascinating email exchange.
The only point you really made is that you haven’t gotten over your bullying issues.
Um, anne @ #71, Savage/Keck got threatened with a lawsuit and shit a brick. They don’t care all that much about the principle of the KOMO/sex club thing if it might cost them a lot of money or inconvenience them in some way. The Stranger did exactly what KOMO told them to do. KOMO won.
KOMO GM: “Ginter was very, very, very, very upset and wouldn’t we pretty please take her feelings into consideration and stop suggesting that she might be [a damn fine journalist]? Please?”
Dan: “So apologize.”
KOMO GM: “???”
I’m really curious what excuse he gave for not doing the right thing himself.
It is now time to restrict access to Slog. No more dropouts from court-ordered anger management class! Sheesh, this is about as tiresome as a Slog thread can get (which is saying something). Naturally, therefore, I (the dolt that I am) shall add my two cents.
@70 and friends, you are idiots. Either that, or you are part of the “team of lawyers” to which KOMO has access. Seriously, though, if you think this little story merits the attention of a “team of lawyers,” you know very little. And may be little in some ways.
Is it possible–can you and your mad brethren commenters try to shake that toxic bolus of gelatin between your ears to ponder–d’ya think–that maybe just maybe Savage (who is very nice, really, at least most of the time) knows when a story is played out, knows when it’s time to move on? Can you just try to apprehend the chance, however outlying it may be in your cramped, angry sphere, that letting Ms. Mar-lee Ginter off the hook in this way, rather than continuing to insist on an apology, is not only “nice,” but concludes this story in a way that is more damning of her? After all, who but the most insignificant and harmless among us deserve such charity and consideration? De-fanged, perhaps she can now be ignored.
No? Not possible? You want to attack Savage for not being a “real man” instead? Thought so. That’ll get him good.
Being nice, Dan? You mean it never occurred to you that it might hurt Marlee’s feelings, your posting over and over again that she sucks off goats? It just never occurred to you that that wasn’t “nice” until KOMO’s lawyers told you? And then you forgot all about her hit piece on the sex club…cause you didn’t want poor Marlee’s feelings to be hurt? Um, yeah, right.
All you had to do was insist that KOMO issue an apology to the sex club and then nobody would have questioned your censoring the posts. It’s not too late — just tell them to apologize or the posts get un-censored and you continue your righteous crusade against Marlee.
@79, the point is that crusades are not interesting.
Beware Cult Of Dan faithful:
Your leader will, someday quite soon, grow weary –nay, bored– of his “stalwart transplanted fag queen of Seattle” status and move on to larger, greener pastures. The writing, my friends, is on the wall. Regular and timely appearances on national teevee (Amen, Daniel!) programming, coupled with a resume headlined by capitalized Editorship Position, mean there are plenty of tasty big-league carrots dangling in front of his nose.
Who wants to wager on how long St. Dan will look over his shoulder after pulling up his drawers and walking out of Seattle’s bedroom? I’m betting a quick wink is all you’ll get.
You are forewarned.
this stupid story merited one post, which would have been funny, but dan kept posting and posting and doing videos and so on. but he knows when a story is played out, 78? yeah right.
going after some pathetic tv reporter like that is just so bullying and nasty – but suddenly dan is nice? cause some lawyer asked him to be? you wonder why most people don’t buy it dan?
@82 if you were the Center for Sex and Everything it Stands For, or whatever it’s called, or that writer Alexander, I don’t think you’d find Dan’s stories “bullying and nasty.” How’d you like your perfectly legal, very popular business to be given the KOMO treatment?
That being said, I, like you, was ready for the story to conclude a while ago. But I’m ADD.
I wonder how many references to Ginter being a [damn fine journalist] could be planted around the internet for search engines to find. It could almost be like a contest. Like a ‘Ginter’ siting. I am betting if people were really creative, placement could be far and wide.
Basically, the type of sensationalism that this [damn fine journalist] was attempting to do should be rewarded with a loss of job. The very least it should result in is a public appology. There is another avenue that can be pursued as well. A formal complaint to the FCC by each viewer that thought KOMO was abusing their use of the airwaves by trying to insight ‘a problem’ with their problem solvers.
What we permit, we promote. Dont let these cheeseballs get away with this and dont forget what they are. If they cant admit what they did was wrong. Dont forget what they did.
Thats my opinion. I am sure yours may vary.
I wonder how many references to Ginter being a [damn fine journalist] could be planted around the internet for search engines to find. It could almost be like a contest. Like a ‘Ginter’ siting. I am betting if people were really creative, placement could be far and wide.
Basically, the type of sensationalism that this [damn fine journalist] was attempting to do should be rewarded with a loss of job. The very least it should result in is a public appology. There is another avenue that can be pursued as well. A formal complaint to the FCC by each viewer that thought KOMO was abusing their use of the airwaves by trying to insight ‘a problem’ with their problem solvers.
What we permit, we promote. Dont let these cheeseballs get away with this and dont forget what they are. If they cant admit what they did was wrong. Dont forget what they did.
Thats my opinion. I am sure yours may vary.
@81
That sounds awesome!
@78 amen. Slog fights can be entertaining, but sometimes it’s exhausting to watch the toxic mood swings in comments. Dan did something none of you did–putting himself out there with the attack in the first place and loads of people cheer. People jeer. People jump up and down in glee. Some people don’t and call names.
So now he judges that his point is made. Disagree if you want, but his call on this doesn’t warrant the tantrums spewed all over these pages. You want to keep it going? Go out and make your own videos and put them on youtube–nothing is stopping you. Take responisiblity into your own hands.
People love you then the same people hate you. Kind of head spinning making.
Some people need to revise their anger management tactics. I’m still disappointed KOMO won’t send an apology to the Center OR their viewers, but at least they pulled the story. And the goat sucking bit *was* a little over the top, even if I did snort cereal milk out my nose first time I heard it.
Keep up the satire, Dan. It’s what we enjoy.
Hate Crimes = Satire
I would have kept it up, at least until she apologized. I don’t care that she’s hurt, she should apologize because her work was provably bad.
While its nice to appeal to feelings every once in a while, this kind of thing shouldn’t be left to slide, and this tactic is much better than anything else done by more ‘proper’ or ‘official’ means.
Besides, it was hilarious.
Dan, I will always love you for taking this issue as far as you have. And, people, one week is not “beating a dead horse.”
Being nice is… nice, but I say change it back if you want to, Dan. The original line was *not* an over-reaction. She deserved it.
@3 This. Humanity is definitely not a reason to take down your previous posts. If anything, humanity would be supporting the minority population you purportedly represent, and not caving to a spoiled small-town girl stomping her feet.
I am quite sure that the new found fetish of being “curious to watch gintering” shall live on…
Dan, you’re acting like a coward. You should have gotten your apology first. Poor, desparate goats are going un-blown and the crappy journalist is going to get away with more crappy journalism.
Calm down people!
I think The Stranger made its point. Marlee will certainly have a different perspective on her stories now though she may just see herself as the victim. The Stranger pointed out the errors it got noticed and they story hasn’t been retracted. Unless the sex club is suffering repercussions, let it go.
It is over.
No apology = no point.
As the director of the Center, I’m glad that Dan changed the goat piece. It was the only part of this whole mess that I wasn’t comfortable with. You see, as much as I was unhappy with Ms. Ginter’s story (which we really did end up benefiting a lot from, btw) she was doing her job (although badly) and the real culprits are her bosses who allowed it to air without fact checks and all the inaccuracies. I applaude Dan for taking the high road for once. 🙂
As for KOMO issuing an apology. Hah! That will never happen. Although I am looking forward to the check from them that they’ll be sending the Center from all the Problem Solver Donations people have made. When that happens I’ll make a copy of the check and frame it.
Allena
So, you stopped your name calling because they asked you to.
Ginter’s story, though now appropriately maligned and made an example of, still remains without retraction, correction, or apology.
You let hurt feelings interfere with shining a light on an exploitative journalist who blatantly lied and misrepresented a business that many Seattleites favor.
Sorry, Dan, KOMO wins.
#72, if you really are dan, and i have to assume you are since the comment hasn’t disappeared:
They asked us to please not saddle Ginter with “goat blower” for the rest of her natural life, so we tweaked the posts.
is an absurd excuse and an absurd description of the changes you made. why the fuck should you care what Ginter is saddled with? you made it immeasurably clear that you had no concern for her personal or professional well being since, to you, she was such a liar and so dishonest.
and “tweaked the posts”? you call re-naming them and taking out any reference to your original accusations “tweaking”? if this is a tweak, i’d love to see what a retraction would look like at the stranger.
the only thing i can imagine is that you either (a) got bored, (b) peed your pants when komo’s lawyers gave you the option of ‘being nice’ or seeing them in court, or (c) truly believe you made your point. you’re showing your true nature no matter what the reason: a bully and a coward.
Once again – ALL of you who say that Dan caved because of the threat of a lawsuit really need to talk to a lawyer (or get some common sense). There was no threat of a lawsuit because there is nothing actionable in Dan’s posts. LOOK IT UP. KOMO’s lawyers know when they have a case and when they don’t. There was no case here, so enough with the stupid-ass conspiracy theories. You’ll just have to accept that Dan changed the posts because he wanted to. Disagree with that all you want, but you’re going to have to find a different argument than these imaginary, would-never-happen legal threats.
Oh, and the posts surely had a serious effect, even without an apology from Ginter or KOMO (don’t hold your breath). Every news outlet in this town will absolutely think twice before running a sex-negative piece like this again, regardless of whether they actually eventually apologized. And THAT’S THE POINT. Dan’s posts were well-crafted satire that put everyone in the news industry in this town on notice. The fact that he didn’t waste a month going after a literal apology is irrelevant. The effect is the same.