“I took my dog to Magnuson this morning, and these signs were up around the park,” writes Slog tipper Josh, who goes on to say:
Could this story fit the negative stereotype about pit bulls and their owners more perfectly? That’s because it’s largely true. Not entirely true, of course — I have some friends who take care of foster dogs, and they have kept several wonderful pit bulls. But we’ve all seen the hyper-macho douchebags with their pit bulls that look like they’re ready to rip your throat out. It’s unfortunate that this culture exists around these dogs, but it does, and it ruins pit bulls for everyone else. Just like a high school can tell their students they can’t wear all red or blue colors, even though there’s nothing intrinsically wrong about wearing all red and blue, it still seems perfectly justified: young men wearing all red and blue has come to signify specific gang allegiance.
That number again, in case you saw something around noon on Saturday at the park: 437-7410. There’s some more info on KOMO’s site. (Thanks for that tip, Vanessa.)
And if I ever own another dog, I’m buying the biggest can of mace I can find.
@49: I think this is really interesting what you posted, because I think dogs are an analogy for ourselves. Pit bulls are an analogy for ourselves: they respresent the black/white divide, and whether that divide equals one of unfair segragation, where we say the weaker force is bad, or a fairer fore, where we say that force is a product of unfair situations?
The last time I was at Magnuson Park (sometime in late August), there was an unaltered male pit in the off-leash area who responded reasonably well to vocal commands until someone showed up with an unfixed bitch (non-pit). For the next 20 minutes, the pit followed the bitch around and attempted to mount her as his owner ignored him and her owner did nothing, despite her dog’s obvious distress. We eventually left and attempted to call animal control but got no response. Personally, I believe that all dogs should be legally required to be fixed unless licensed to a registered breeder, and that penalties for having an unfixed dog be heavy fines. At the very least, that would have meant that animal control/cops would have had a legal reason to come to the off-leash area and deal with the sexually aggressive pit bull, as opposed to not responding.
Was one of the pits involved in this incident a big, burly gray male named Rascal? Because that’s the dog that was being aggressive when we were there. He started to show interest in our 60-lb fixed pit-shepherd puppy, and we got out of there immediately.
@47 for the win.
If you spend centuries breeding dogs to herd sheep, culling the ones that let them stray or kill them, you get a dog that herds. Put any collie around a flock and watch. No one contests that this propensity is now innate.
But if you spend centuries breeding a dog specifically to be an effective killer of other dogs, culling the ones that stop attacking when the other dog shows submission, you somehow DON’T get a dog that takes to killing other dogs innately.
Nice logic, pit bull owners. Enjoy your time bomb.
Any one else find it ironic that Josh laments the stereotyping of pitbulls even as he stereotypes the owner as a “hyper-macho douchbag” because he has tatoos?
Pitbulls (and other gladiator breeds) are just as dangerous in the hands of a bleeding heart pacifist as they are in the hands of a thug.
indeed @47 FTW
@53 Jessica now you are lumping all non fixed dogs together. That is completely misguided. I own a non-fixed championship bloodline yellow lab. While he may be more frisky than a cut dog when a female comes around, he also listens very well, is gentle and friendly. The only time I have had an issue with him, was both due to aggressive pits, once at Magnusson Park, and once at Redmond Marymoor. Both times pits came up to my dog and started pushing against him with hackles raised. My dog of course will defend himself to such unprovoked aggression. His hackles raised, and he growled, but backed off.
Both times the owners acted like it was my dogs fault, and took pride in their dog being the “tough dog on the block”. Needless to say, we now carry my concealed weapon in a backpack when going to dog parks.
The pitbull owner in the story above is damn lucky I wasn’t there that day, because this world would be less one pit … at a minimum.
I wouldn’t hesitate to walk up to a bit with jaws on another dog, and shoot it right in the spine multiple times, until it released the other dog, and then I’d put a final touch between it’s eyes.
The time has come for everyone to recognize that this isn’t an uncut dog problem. It is a breed problem plain and simple.
Even a shitty owner couldn’t train a lab to be vicious in unprovoked ways like many pit confrontations are. Sure you could train any dog to be suspicious, angry, anti social. But only a few limited breeds are known for aggressively seeking out unprovoked confrontations.
As a dog owner for more than 20 years, and having witnessed dozens of pit only scares, so much anecdotal evidence from others, stories posted here etc etc… when will all you naysayers be willing to “get” that pits by their size, strength, nature, and volatile “short wiring” at random times equates into a danger that other dog breeds simply are NEVER associated with?
WAKE UP!
I changed my mind. @55 posted while I was typing, and he clearly goes FTW on this thread.
’nuff said.
My dog is a pit bull that I adopted from the Seattle animal Shelter 7 years ago, so I have experience with pit bulls. During the years that he has lived with me we have had so many interesting experiences I could write a book. The things to understand about pit bulls is that they are one of the few breeds that have been bred to fight other dogs. All pit bulls have that in them. All pit bulls have the ability to fight and kill another dog. And they can do this while enduring pain.
I think anyone who takes a pit bull to an off leash area is playing with fire. Taking 3 (and if they are not fixed,) well that is crazy. This person is soon going to have a serious problem and some poor dog will suffer for their stupidity.
You should only have a pit bull if you can walk it everyday for 2 miles or more, can keep it entertained most of the day and not let it run free especially with other dogs.
Any dog that aproaches a pit bull in an alpha agressive manner is asking for trouble. Most pit bulls will never back down so you will have a fight. And most of the time the pit bull will win.
I don’t know what the answer here is but we need to think about limiting the number of pit bulls in the world. We do not need fighting dogs in our world. And it took years of selective breeding to breed these dogs to what they are today, so to breed them to be something else is crazy. But we have to come up with some way of controlling the breeding of pit bulls and possibly some other breeds but right now pit bulls.
And yes check out the animal shelters and you will find that most of the dogs are pit bull and pit bull mix dogs. So something is really wrong with this breed right now.
@55:
35 Breeds of Dogs were supposedly “Bred To Fight”. 7 are extinct and of the remaining 28..Boxers (victim in this case) and Boston Terriers are among them.
Would you like to ban all 28 breeds? Or are you selectively Picking on the Pitbull bc of your irrational beliefs about them?
http://thenewsdispatch.com/main.asp?Sect…
Chihauhau’s never hurt anybody?
Labs are great with kids…
http://www.newson6.com/global/story.asp?…
Only pitbulls kill other dogs.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/rhode_i…
Everyone says pitbull owners are paranoid, only crazy people own pitbulls. The reality is there are excellent owners who have seen how these dogs have been misconstrued over time. These dogs should not be part of fighting rings. They make terrible police dogs becuase they are so loving. Yet they almost instinctively know when is the right time to protect. They are also very smart and attentive to direction; whether that is negative or positive training. There are probably more CGC dogs in this breed just to prove that they can be socialized and be great pets.
There are animals in the breed that do not like other dogs, or small animals or kids. But go to the Petfinder website and you will see this in every advertisement for every breed of dog. There is a no cats/ dogs/kids link on pets lists because the animal said at some point ” you know I just don’t like that cat/dog/kid.” They displayed some aggression and someone reacted. Often these dogs or cats can still be parts of the families that they go to next, but there is always that question.
To those who say ban, here is a link for you. This is a potential list of dogs that have been or are banned by either cities or towns in the US. Is your dog on the list? Then think about how some countries are making it so that only little dogs can be owned. Then one step further to when little dogs will be banned, because little dogs are never vicious right?
Do you see the potential of how any dog can make it to the list?
http://hubpages.com/hub/List_Of_75_Banne…
Now lets start focusing on how to deal with dangerous dogs and stop saying kill the pitbulls…
Well stated 61!
The problem is that pits are far more likely to do this than others, fixed or not, good owners or not, “fighting breeds” or not.
Are you a good owner of a good pit? Great, move to Fall City. They don’t belong in cities.
@ Matt from Denver
Got proof of that? Or is that your own anecdotal BS? That’s what I thought.Pit bulls (and all dogs, really)belong in good homes, urban or rural.
@57 FTW with this comment:
“Needless to say, we now carry my concealed weapon in a backpack when going to dog parks.”
@59 “And yes check out the animal shelters and you will find that most of the dogs are pit bull and pit bull mix dogs.”
How much money do we spend housing these homeless dogs? In a truly humane society, that money would be spent housing homeless people.
61. I must correct you on one item… the reason pitbulls make bad police dogs is that they, once they bite someone, they do not let go when commanded no matter how well housebroken they are. They are hard-wired to bite to kill. They don’t let go unless killed, hurt badly enough to de-trigger their reflexes or their prey dies.
6 FTW. Either that or mandatory muzzles! No muzzles then jail time for the owners. These breeds are vicious and are genetically predisposed to kill by reaction no matter what type of training they receive, anything can set them off. Only murderous a-holes with small penises step outside of their homes with these creatures with no muzzles.
where did you get your information 67? Please site the studies? German shepherds are the number 1 dog of choice for police dog. Pitbulls still are used for tracking, drug detection and other canine jobs. If they were not used as police dogs for the reason you mentioned, it would be over the whole policing system. There are a couple of pb’s on duty at the US/BC border now. They are not bred to bite humans. If they do they should be put down unless the bite is antagonized. Oh and have you tried to ever break up a dog fight? It is not easy any kind of dog. So to start spouting myths that cannot be confirmed is not something I’m going to believe.
There are so many stories about these great family dogs that never showed aggression before. Then come to find out they have spent most of their lives away from human contact or are trained to pull on a regular basis, or are intact males. The macho idiots that run around with the mastiff mixes, pb’s, or other tough looking dogs just make me mad. As do the backyard breeders charging 300 bux a puppy and having no clue what the dogs bloodlines are or if the person that is getting them will take good care of them. That is why so many of these dogs end up in the pound. They are high energy and can be stubborn. They like to chew and dig and forget they have tails. They can get picky about who they like and may bark and act tough towards certain people. Some also can live with cats, ferrets, other dogs, birds, kids, and other pets and weird people. But they are not superhuman. They are dogs that not everyone can handle. Just like not everyone can handle a jack russell terrier or a greyhound or half a dozen other breeds.
Look at the Calgary bylaws if you really want to see positive change towards all bites. I would think you wouldn’t want to be bit by any dog. Or are you just more focused on pit bulls as your personal fear?
Bite Force Competition. Pitbull, Rottwei… – The top video clips of the week are here
@41 – have you ever actually been bitten by a Chi? Or any dog? Bruising my foot! I have a friend who as bitten by a mini Dachshund and it broke her hand! I work with dogs and have been bitten many times. They can all do damage. Nothing to really add to the convo other than I felt your remark to be uhm.. highly exaggerated.
I don’t know what the right answer is, except that ban Pits and the jackalope dog owners will just find a new phallus replacement.
“how can we, as the general public, know which dogs are safe?”
Look at the owners..…if they wear a do-rag, pants half way down their asses and b-ball hat turned sideways, white or black, they are pricks who should be spaded.
OK, when was the last time you saw a wigga with a pit bull that you wanted to pat?
I don’t see why this is so complicated….the fucking owners of these beasts are, 99% of the time, hip-hoppidity assholes who hang out at Westlake with their pants around their asses. Ban these assholes from decent neighborhoods and the pyscho-pit bull problem is solved.
@56: It’s ironic, if we live in a Alanis universe. If you’re saying it’s contradictory, then I disagree with that point. He’s a hyper-macho douchebag because he takes 3 aggressive, muscular dogs to a dog park. He’s a hyper-macho douchebag because he fled the scene, rather than dealing with it like an adult. You can be the stereotypical douchebag pit bull owner with zero tattoos.
@61: Biting a lip off is the worst you can come up with? I still would like to see a chihuahua-related human death. I won’t be surprised if there is one. Maybe an infant.
@70: So you would be just as willing to be bitten by a dachsund as a pit bull? Please, offer your hand to this experiment.
Some of you that beleive that any breed of living creature should be genocidically massacred try and remember Adolph
Hitler had similar ideas that many on the planet found Heinous
and Evil as I and many others feel about BSL which is basically
copycatting Hitler’s final solution.Notwithstanding the Honourable media there are less than 20 fatal dog attacks
per annum in the whole USA(all breeds)
smarock10@yahoo.com
Fuckin great. So now, being a white man with a pit bull I have to deal with a bunch of assholes that are gonna stare at me like Im a dog killer if I walk my dog at the park. Thanks dickhead with forearm tattoos. Learn to train your dogs or at least do something if they get out of control.
Strange week for aggressive dogs. On Sunday a Doberman, Rotty, Shepard or something mix had jumped out of a car window at the 7 Eleven on 15th and 125th and came running at me barking when I got out of my car. I just stood in front of it and said “NO!” The owner said “oh, he’s nice, he’ll just lick you”…yeah well he was about to get kicked in the face.
@64: I would love to see all pit bulls in good homes. “Pit bulls (and all dogs, really)belong in good homes, urban or rural,” you say? I think everyone would love to see this. While pit bulls probably do have a proclivity towards aggressiveness higher than the average dog, there are plenty of wonderful owners with loving, gentle pit bulls. But this is due to careful training. The whole problem is the culture that surrounds pit bulls, and I would guess this culture actually represents a small percentage of pit bull owners. But it’s there, and it needs to be dealt with in some way.
@76: Take it on Glen Beck. Calling up Hitler in a discussion about dogs equals anthropomorphizing to the extreme. For the record, we should not go out and kill pit bulls that are currently living. All dogs not owned by reputable breeders should be fixed, but pit bulls and other aggressive dogs should not continue breeding. They are not going to die sad and alone because they did not have children, because they’re dogs. They can only remember a few seconds back in the future.
Many of you on this site seem to be absolute experts on the
bully breeds,how many of you have actually seen an attack
by one of these breeds?Am not referring to the garbage you have read in newspapers,when a drunken driver hits a child
the media does not show pictures of the mangled body of the
poor kid,when on very odd occasions there is a bad dog attack,many honourable reporters very often do not even see the dog but will automatically label it a pitbull,more newsworthy of course,this is a dishonest practice and should
be treated no differently than hate speech.
smarock10@yahoo.com
@77: Owning pit bulls, you’d have to live under a rock to not know there’s a stigma — a well-earned stigma, unfortunately — that surrounds pit bulls. I’m sure you have great, gentle dogs, but that’s the burden you carry. I used to work with a guy with a teardrop tattoo. He got it because his dad died, but most people, quite fairly, assume it was due to him murdering someone. And that’s the burden he had to live with, but he chose it.
Why Pits do not make good police dogs is that they enjoy playing too much,one policeman told a story of a pit that he was trying to train and all the dog wanted to do was sit on his lap,also these dogs have enormous desires to please their
families,hence the scum that take advantage and use them for that evil passtime dog-fighting,those are the bastards that should be put down.
smarock10@yahoo.com
@80: I take my dog to dog parks all the time, and I have seen plenty of attacks. Most of them are plain fights, but the pit bulls have a certain tenacity to them. I’ve been bitten by a pit mix before, and I keep my dog well away from them.
That said, my personal experience, and anyone’s firsthand experience, is anecdotal. If you know anyone who works for the police department, you’ll know that pit bulls are not popular there — again, this is anecdotal, but they see lots of cases coming across their desks, so they have a slightly bigger picture. Unfortunately, there are no solid statistics out there. Most of the stats are put out by those who want to take a yay/nay position on pits. I would love to see some reliable stats that take into account all the unregistered fighting dogs out there, as well as the family dogs.
Truth Movement you certainly have the “Ve are the master race syndrome”My belief is that the Human is undoubtably the most Evil living creature on this planet,facts prove this,Hitler dissapproved of Jews so he wanted all of them in Europe
massacred,certain Islamic communities do not like non -Islamic people so they blow them up,recently a certain president and prime-minister did not like Saddam Hussein
so a war was created causing the deaths of many thousands
of human lives including their own people.
All the attention given to the pits is certainly not warranted and the other belief is I do not have the right to play G-D.
smarock10@yahoo.com
smarock10@yahoo.com: Thanks for explaining how everything in the world works.
If humans don’t have the right to play God, as you say, then all dogs should be done away with, because dogs have been bred to fit into human society.
As far as comparing me and anyone who believes in a breed ban to Hitler (and my notion of a breed ban is the gradual reduction of pit bull numbers over several decades, without killing any living dogs, so long as they’re not dangerous), then I don’t really think we can have a serious conversation. I would direct you to this — http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYlZiWK2I… . I would also suggest you see “Away We Go,” which I just saw the other night. I imagine a conversation with you would be like talking to the Catherine O’Hara character in the movie.
Sorry, @85: I meant Maggie Gyllenhaal.
Truth Movement I was not targeting you but the concept of BSL.In fact in 1 of your posting you mentioned that you would like to see stats on how many family pets vs fighting dogs.The way it appears to work generally is that in the cities and towns
that do not have BSL there is strong fight by the police and public to curb dog.fighting,these criminals are being arrested and are spending real jail-time,but in the counties like Miami-Dade and the city of Denver where they have murdered thousands of family pets they show little or no interest in going after the dog-fighters,animal-control will
arrive at your home with 4 police cars ,full of cops to take away your dog for doing nothing wrong but being a certain breed then they will murder the poor animal asap to avoid the owner getting legal advice.
smarock10@yahoo.com
The problem with pit bulls is that they are genetic killing machines. Most dags that bite you leave a flesh wound. A pit bull disfigures you, mutilates you and probably kills you. My German Shepard mix is no Pansie, yet he was completely owned by a immature pit bull bitch for no reason. He could not even get away, which is all he was trying to do.
When pit bulls go off, and they are bred to go off, the destroy. I think people are idiots to own them. We get frequent stories down south about family members killed by their pit bulls. It is dangerous.
Most apartments, condo associations and home owner associations ban them in my area. I have no problem with this. I love dogs, but it is too much of a risk.
think of a dog- ANY dog- like a car. They sure are nice to have, and mostly they play a positive role in our lives, but if we’re irresponsible ASS WIPES they can hurt people. Certain kinds of cars are probably statistically prefered by people who drive them aggressively- but its irrelevent to the issue at hand. Now you can outlaw a certain breed- and just like outlawing guns, all it will mean is that the only people w/ that breed will be criminals. They will find a new breed, or falsify their papers, or get a mixed breed w/ the characteristics they want. its STUPID to outlaw a specific breed. you know what you can do? you can severely punish the worthless pieces of shit who ruin it for everyone else- whether you hit someone with your car, or you let an aggressive animal off leash- find ways to stick it to them. Call it reckless endangerment if no one gets hurt. Make laws that impose harsh monetary fines on anyone who causes the death of a person’s pet or service animal (under reasonably defined circumstances obviously), and bar anyone who has ever participated in certain kinds of activities (including dog fights) from EVER owning a dog, and then, if they violate that, put them in jail. pits are bred for certain physical characteristics, but, raised like any other dog, their dispositions are no worse, in many cases better, than other breeds. In an ideal world, when they catch the guy that ran off, they’d euthanize HIM.
@ Julie,
I already proved it QED on another thread, as you well know. Your doggie lover’s brain just can’t handle the truth.
@78…I agree the culture has to change…and it is..however slowly. With subtle changes like media outlets reporting on Dog Attacks rather than PIT BULL ATTACKS the culture surrounding the dogs can and will change.(YAY! KOMO for this last night!!!) This step alone won’t do it but it’s gotta go something like this(stealing bits from this weekend’s BADRAP seminar)
1)Reduce the number of pitties entering shelters/being bred.
2)Take Animal Abuse laws seriously/ target and bust dog-fighting rings
3)Dispel the mythology surrounding this breed (NO-the jaw DOES NOT LOCK…NO- they don’t snap and go crazy)
4)Stop the media from scaring people/perpetuating these myths
5)Breed for the good traits/shut down back yard breeding ops
6)Offer Spay/Neuter svcs..preferably for FREE to low-income owners
7)NORMALIZE the pit bull so more good people recognize their potential as great family pets/companion animals
@Matt..Umm there is no proof…and yep I love me some doggies:)
@85 breed bans = death for dogs
i take my two dogs to magnuson all the time and there is always at least one jackass who has a big, aggressive dog he or she can’t control. they either scream at the dog (who ignores them) or they just look the other way. i also have seen that dog “rascal” at magnuson and his owner is indeed an idiot; that’s a dogfight waiting to happen. it really infuriates me when people can’t control their dogs. one of my dogs is about 100 lbs. (a mastiff mix) and the other is about 40 lbs. (a golden retriever mix) and both are very well behaved, but if they weren’t we wouldn’t be there. it is my job to train my dogs and ensure their safety, and i take it seriously. jesus, people – it isn’t hard! just take your dogs to doggie school and learn how to keep them under control, for their own safety as well as the dogs around them. and not just dogs, but there are usually kids at magnuson, and often elderly people as well.
as for the pitbull owners in question: my boyfriend said he remembers seeing them there over the summer on a sunday afternoon with their dogs, and he said they were very loud and totally ignored their dogs, who were running wild. he turned back and took our dogs home because the group seemed really sketchy and the dogs were making our dogs nervous. let’s hope these pieces of crap are caught and punished, but sadly it is the dogs who will pay the price for their owner’s ignorance and be euthanized.
julie russell @60: I wasn’t advocating any ban. And I’m surprised that you view as irrational my statement that breeding for a trait gets you that trait.
It’s true – all fighting dogs have this problem. If you have one, I hope you watch it like a hawk at the dog park, because as soon as another dog confronts it aggressively, all that breeding will kick in.
@ 94, that’s Julie for you. Give her the facts, she calls you a douche. Don’t give her the facts, and she asks for them. That way, she always wins.
#16- I’ve seen these same people with the same dogs at Magnuson Park. Once several years ago my BC/Aussie mix and I had barely walked through the gate and out into the big field before one of these pits ran halfway across the field to attack my dog. At length the fat girl appeared to restrain her killer animal and had the audacity to claim my dog’s “aggressive herding” had caused her pit to become violent. Of course my dog –as a BC/Aussie mix– was paying attention to one thing and one thing only: me. I actually think this is why the pit attacked us: we didn’t immediately ‘notice’ him (clearly sharing an inferiority complex with its owners). I told her we’d been on the field for ten fucking seconds when her (unaltered) dog attacked so she could take her ‘aggressive herding’ bullshit and stick it up her ass. I also told her the next time her dog attacked mine I’d cut it’s fucking head off.
I’m so sorry for this pet owner’s loss and for the horror inflicted on countless bystanders. I can’t imagine how horrible such a thing must have been to witness.
mandatory spay/neuter of ALL pets.
license for OWNER having ANY pet
no pets over 20lbs
no public off-lease parks
right to protect oneself from any aggressive pet
so when your little rat dog aggressively runs up on me, don’t complain when i blow it’s head off with my 45.
matt from denver: ant stats on if the breed ban in denver has made it’s citizens safer?
http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com…
@ 96 I have also seen this guy and his dog at Magnusson this past July. Upon arriving the two dogs that he brought had every other male dog on the premises on alert. Soon after arrival, the dogs started playing a tug of war game with each other, and it was getting growling and agressive between the two, which started other dogs to gather around, raising tensions between owners and dogs alike. We had our dog laying at our feet at the bench, staying out of the mess. Within 10 minutes of arriving, the whole demeanor of the entire place changed. In the preceding hour, all the dogs were happily playing and splashing around, however after the tug of war happened, everyone was on “alert”.
Julie face the facts. Pits are a different bred breed. They do not “play” well in group situations with multiple unknown dogs. Other breeds of dogs of all shapes and sizes never seem to have these problems at dog parks we’ve been to. Why is that? Why?
Keep Pits out of community off leash dog parks! They DO NOT play well with other dogs! They are designed and bred for fighting. THAT can NOT be “untrained”, no matter how well intentioned, socially conditioned, trained or raised. PERIOD!
If they only represent < 1% of the total dog ownership, but cause in excess of 80% of problems THAT is a no brainer. Keep them AT HOME. Fine you don’t want us to ban them? Keep them away from the voting public, who decided to choose one of hundreds of breeds of dogs, OTHER THAN PITS!
How hard is it to understand that?
I hope you understand Julie that if your Pit ever agressively comes near my dog, that will be the end of your dog. I’ll shoot it without hesitation. End of problem.