“I took my dog to Magnuson this morning, and these signs were up around the park,” writes Slog tipper Josh, who goes on to say:
Could this story fit the negative stereotype about pit bulls and their owners more perfectly? That’s because it’s largely true. Not entirely true, of course — I have some friends who take care of foster dogs, and they have kept several wonderful pit bulls. But we’ve all seen the hyper-macho douchebags with their pit bulls that look like they’re ready to rip your throat out. It’s unfortunate that this culture exists around these dogs, but it does, and it ruins pit bulls for everyone else. Just like a high school can tell their students they can’t wear all red or blue colors, even though there’s nothing intrinsically wrong about wearing all red and blue, it still seems perfectly justified: young men wearing all red and blue has come to signify specific gang allegiance.
That number again, in case you saw something around noon on Saturday at the park: 437-7410. There’s some more info on KOMO’s site. (Thanks for that tip, Vanessa.)
Right from the CDC website-
A CDC study on fatal dog bites lists the breeds involved in fatal attacks over 20 years (Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998). It does not identify specific breeds that are most likely to bite or kill, and thus is not appropriate for policy-making decisions related to the topic. Each year, 4.7 million Americans are bitten by dogs. These bites result in approximately 16 fatalities; about 0.0002 percent of the total number of people bitten. These relatively few fatalities offer the only available information about breeds involved in dog bites. There is currently no accurate way to identify the number of dogs of a particular breed, and consequently no measure to determine which breeds are more likely to bite or kill.
Many practical alternatives to breed-specific policies exist and hold promise for preventing dog bites. For prevention ideas and model policies for control of dangerous dogs, please see the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA) Task Force on Canine Aggression and Human-Canine Interactions: A community approach to dog bite prevention. *
http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSa…
Hey Gttim, did you take a look at that list of dogs that are banned in the US? GSD’s are on there. Oh and if you search hard enough there was a proposal to ban all GSD’s in the earlier part of this last century because of their nature to attack in packs, their strong bite strength, etc.
We need to stop focusing on the breeds of the dogs, and start focusing on better enforcement for KCAC, and the police, and stricter penalties and laws for dangerous dog owners. Whether that is a pb or a pomeranian. Otherwise we are going to just have a fight with people suing the cities saying their dogs aren’t APB’s with DNA evidence to back it up, and you know what then we will have a whole other story to cover and more taxes and lawsuits to pay. Treat each dog equally if it shows aggression tag it correctly. Stop lumping a small minority of dogs that are owned by people who don’t really give a crap about them, with people who do honestly have family pets who live their whole lives without any aggression or the snap signs so many of you believe.
And you know what I DO WANT EQUAL ATTENTION given to the stupid dogs all over our county that are attacking, whatever the breed. Maybe if some of you string up the dogs sorts heard some of the daily UNREPORTED bites that happen, maybe you would understand that there are lots of dogs that attack that never are reported and don’t gain media attention because they cannot be called pitbulls.
@ Matt…I NEVER win…I’m Julie Russell:)
I just don’t think you have evidence to back your claims..show me something solid..NOT the Merritt Clifton (bogus) study…as in data… and we’ll see where we are
Hey Amillan @101
You want prevention? Keep the fucking pits at home. Got it?
Segregate them. That way the only people they will bite will be family or friends of the idiots who decide to own them. There simply is no sane reason for anyone to own a pit bull terrier, or any of the “sub” breed similar dogs that encompass the word “pit”. None. Unless you want to be an anti social asshole to your fellow citizens.
Pit bulls do not socialize well with large doses of “unknown” dogs, unless they spend their entire lives living that way. (See Ceasar’s dogs in his group enclosure). Pits that are isolated, and taught to tightly bond with a small family unit do not then later play well with group situations, where they develop an inferiority complex with dogs bigger/taller/stronger looking than them.
Other dog breeds do not have this issue. Great Danes are HUGE, and yet are some of the most docile breeds. Why? You would think they could just go throw their weight/size around, and clean up.
It is because by NATURE and BREEDING that only gentle animals have been carried forward. Hence you NEVER see bans being promoted for them. Why? Hell they are over 130+ lbs when adults?
Please tell me why Great Danes have no stigma?
Hmm?
Ohhh… and your little “statistics” from above only discusses fatal dog bites. That is crap logic. I want to see statistics on bull terrier attacks that cause injuries serious enough to cause stitches/surgery. I then want the statistics correlated to the location (whether home, street, or off leash dog park), and seperated by breed.
You may night like “breed-specific” policies, but the fact of the matter is, labs are amongst the friendliest few of all dogs, and you NEVER hear of them causing unprovoked attacks, maimings, or fights like you do bull terriers. The same goes for HUGE Great Danes.
And if all I ever see causing problems at dog parks are one particular sub group species of dogs, then you damn well certain better believe I’m going to associate the breed of the animal in combination with the breeding of the owner.
@ 100…they DO NOT represent <1% of the dog pop…AKC stats are used to derive that data and AKC does not recognize them…So In reality they make up a much larger percentage than that. Just look in any area shelter if you have your doubts.Lowball estimate 20-33% in a given community. Generally 2nd to labs.
To get an accurate read you have to break it down based on RECOGNIZED registration stats.
I will agree that SOME breeds may have a greater propensity towards DA (Dog Aggression)but NOT HA(Human Aggression) and will agree that pits are among those breeds..hence the need for OWNER RESPONSIBLITY.
reality check- do you actually beleive there are less than 1% of these dogs owned? Look around and tell me that. There may be only 1% registered, but that does not mean they are the <1% population.
@ 103, again, already did that and just got insulted (but with a cutesy little passive aggressive smiley face) for my trouble. You’re prejudiced and impervious to even the notion that dogs bred for certain traits get those traits hardwired into their behavior. Since you’re a dishonest and illogical debater, I won’t go through any further efforts to make my case.
Nah..it’s bc YOU HAVE NO DATA
@102 I’ll address your “undocumented attacks” claim you keep spouting.
That too is complete bullshit.
I’ve never seen a pomeranian attack another dog, where it’s intent was to claim aggressive dominance in a group situation. If you understand pack logic, you know that this simply does not happen. Poms attack out of defense or fear. They are inherently timid because of their size. Hence when they go dog parks, they often fear the “unknown” and are skittish.
So I’d like to understand if your intent is to include Poms who are not aggressive but rather reactive? You are saying we should equate little Poms who snap at a little kids fingers and equally compare big vicious strong pits? Really?
I’m outraged that all you pit lovers can’t seem to get it thru your thick skulls that there is a HUGE difference between pits that go looking for trouble and aggression, and other breeds that defend themselves, cause defensive injury bites, and in proportion do far less damage than strong pitbulls bred to have massive bear trap jaws and aggressive personalties.
You are too much….
http://www.google.com/search?q=labrador+…
There are over 138,000 articles alone on Google with labrador attacks. I am guessing not all of them are labradors attacking. But Labs, retrievers and ANY dog can bite or kill. There was a link I added earlier that had a lab PUPPY that mauled and killed a 2 month old baby. And the statistics I cited come from the CDC who originally ran the study that is so often used by people who only focus on bans. Seriously the stats you are looking for don’t exist, I wish they did they would show an INSANE number of small dog bites, and all dog breeds. The media doesn’t even cover a lab attack unless it involves a senator or someone dying.
BTW yes I do own a 3 year old pit bull that has been properly trained and socialized. She has NO aggression. She has play dates with other bully dogs and even smaller jack russell terrier mixes, and has gotten bitten at by retrievers, and even our neighbor pb who doesn’t even like the dog that shares it’s yard, she has never snapped back. She has NEVER met a dog she doesn’t like. She has been to off leash parks and plays well with all the dogs, she was also fixed early on, so territory issues have never been a problem.
My dad who is a working General Contractor with 20+ years of experience has a 14 year old pitbull that is on her last leg. She has lived with ferrets, birds, cats, and all size dogs as well at 10+ grandkids. She is only now in her old crotchety age getting lippy. Hell if I were arthritic and half blind I don’t know that I would be nice either.
The APB’s that are part of families that are not left out in yards/chained all day, that are not taught to play rough or tug, and are taught manners, display manners. There are fabulous dog trainers in the Seattle area that own these dogs, because of the fact they are the underdog and because they are goofy and loving and smart. Even above what you hear.
Keep living in fear reality man, if BSL were passed, which I hope there are enough vocal people to stop, then it would only be a matter of time before more dogs were added. People would get vocal about the black labs that are biting and killing dogs, then on and on it goes. Play into PETA’s plans. They don’t want us owning animals anyways.
@ Julie and Amillan
I typed that wrong. No I do not believe they represent 1% of owned breeds of dog. What I meant to say is that less than 1% of all serious dangerous bites are from breeds other than pits, E.g,, that 99% of all serious bites causing death, OR serious bodily injury requiring potential for severe scarring.
You simply cannot dispute that all the dog aggression problems are from primarily a single breed.
Just like all the high speed motorcycle chases are primarily caused by high speed crotch rockets. Are other motorcycle models caught for speeding? Sure. But those other models weren’t designed for speeding. Hence the majority of speeding infractions are done by dangerous juveniles on machines they are not experienced to use. They endanger the public with them. Hence in order for the benefit of the public we put regulators on the machines so they cannot exceed a certain limit.
The time has come to regulate certain dog breeds that will limit the public’s exposure to dog breeds that are inherently more dangerous. Since we seem to be unable to require registration of owners, and we cannot seem to regulate owner behavior, then it is time to cut the problem off at the source. Ban pit bulls.
End of story.
reality check you are an idiot. There is no truth to the massive BEAR jaws. In fact Discovery channel did a test and the rottweiller had more bite force than a pit bull and GSD.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbwMs7cjK…
You may not have seen a pom show aggression, but head down to any animal shelter and they could tell you stories for ages about the same dogs and little dogs showing aggression to other kennel mates, cats and kids.
reality check – did you even open the CDC dog bite fatality link? It state first thing that the study shows approximately 1/3 of all the dog bite fatalities were APB, and HALF were rottweilers. That is not 99%.
They also show they got their facts from HSUS and the media. HSUS is the same group in bed with Vick and has nothing to do with local humane societies. The reason the CDC does not pay for these kind of studies anymore is because they are FLAWED. Media only reports what sells papers and fills comments folders…
(DBRF)in the United States.1-3Most victims were chil-dren. Studies indicate that pit bull-type dogs wereinvolved in approximately a third of human DBRFreported during the 12-year period from 1981 through1992, and Rottweilers were responsible for about halfof human DBRF reported during the 4 years from 1993through 1996. These data have caused some individu-als to infer that certain breeds of dogs are more likelyto bite than others and should, therefore, be banned orregulated more stringently.4,5The purposes of the studyreported here were to summarize breeds associatedwith reported human DBRF during a 20-year periodand assess policy implications.
http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSa…
Um… Cato… I don’t think the kind of people who have aggressive pits are treating them like people! More likely as fighting machines…
@112 No amillan, your posts here have shown that you are the ignorant one.
Read my post again. I said BEAR TRAP jaws. Meaning that unlike other dogs moron, pit bulls are notorious for clamping down, and not releasing their hold, even under the application of pain or pressure.
I have seen a pom show agression. And as has been stated here NUMEROUS times, I’ll take a pom attacking my foot over a pit bull biting off my fingers any day. I have played with many breeds of dogs, and my extended family has owned 12 different breeds of dogs in the last decade. I volunteer train dogs for the blind, own my own lab, and my parents raise springers. I’ve been around dogs and dog training my entire life. My lab pup at 12 months old had already completed AKC dog obedience I at Magnusson AKC this past winter… so yes I have worked with, trained with, and been around many breeds…. just to name some of the exposure of hide to variety and type fyi…
So please… keep calling me a moron putz… it is really cute.
I know what I’ve personally experienced, both during my own observations, my own experience working with my dog, my own experience taking my dog to Magnusson, Marymoor, and countless beaches. I understand dog interaction. I fully understand pack behaviour, dog aggression, and dog owners not “getting” the entire picture.
I do not need pit owners compensating for lack of knowledge. Not all pit owners mind you… but enough that causes problems. And because these owners are getting in WAY over there heads, and putting MY safety, and the safety of my dog at risk, I will NOT compromise.
You can show me studies about labs causing bite injuries. Sure they do happen. But when labs bite, on average they do not inflict life threatening injury.
That is the difference.
Kids come running to my lab to pet him when we walk him in parks and on the street. The same can NOT be said for pits.
Pit bulls jaws DO NOT LOCK…This is a myth. Are they tenacious?SURE, but so are MANY other large breed dogs. Do they have some DA at times?SURE-they can..but so can MANY other breeds.
And RC- since we are gettin all anecdotal: Children ADORE my pitbull Simon…They hug her, pull her ears and sit on her like a horse. My lab…not so good with kids.
Bottom line: We are all shaped by our experiences and the knowledge we have access to. Unfortunately, for decades the knowledge on pit bulls has been based largely in MTYH and scare tactics.It is easy to fear what you do not know or that which you believe you know…but do not
Oh RC the facts come at you and it must be hard to ignore them. Especially with all your extensive knowledge on the 12 breeds you have been around, and the parents that bred the spaniels, and your labs basic education training. Your beloved pup is on the list of 75 breeds that have some sort of BSL against them currently in the US. So keep trumpeting your ban em slogan. Eventually one of those kids that comes running towards your lab that you don’t tell to stop is going to set off this dog or maybe the next or somewhere down the line and your dog will be targeted too.
Breed bans do not and have not ever worked. PERIOD. There are still problems with dog bites in Denver, breed ban implemented in the 90’s, Yakima has issues, 80’s, Netherlands just stopped their breed ban because it wasn’t working.
Maybe check out one of the original links I added if you want to see what works. It isn’t breed specific bans, but more enforcement of the laws already on the books, more enforcement of dogs on the loose and fines and penalties for dogs that bite from any breed. Check out the Calgary bylaws. They have worked unlike BSL…
Julie @116
Noone ever said their jaws lock. Please don’t twist my words. I said that pit bulls are well known to have clamping problems, whereby they lock down on something (dog/human), and they will NOT release even under pressure/pain/command.
Please refute that. I dare you.
Labs do not have that problem. They don’t viciously clamp down and shake their head in a tearing fashion. If labs bite, it is a nip or snap to send a message. Labs by nature do not bite, and when they do, it is IN NO WAY comparable to pits.
Please refute that. I dare you.
I notice noone has addressed my comparison to a ban on Great Danes? Why not? They are HUGE? You can’t. That is why.
Bottom line. Pits are more inherently dangerous when compared objectively to other breeds. This is not an owner training/socialization/bad owner issue. Since we cannot keep dangerous irresponsible owners from thinking of the common good of all of the public, both dog owners and non dog owning citizens, we need to ban the breed that is in most need of control.
When irresponsible pomeranian owners allow their dogs to nip other dogs, they get a surprise peck When irresponsible pit bull owners allow their dogs to rip into dogs, other dogs die or get badly mauled.
As a result, pit bulls do NOT belong at off leash dog parks, no matter what level of responsibility their owner shows. You want a compromise? Then have mandatory muzzle requirements for pit bulls & rotts at all off leash parks.
Show us you really understand where we are coming from. I damn well guarantee you that my lab will not bite your pit at the dog park if it is muzzled.
Can you promise me the same if that were reversed?
Consider the nature of pits, noone in their right mind would take that bet.
And the public has simply had ENOUGH.
My 4 month old puppy was killed at Magnuson around this time last year. Animal control did nothing, police did nothing and the news didn’t run the story. If the dog had been a pit instead of a lab, maybe people would have cared! Where was this outrage when this happened to the sweetest little puppy you could imagine. My husband and I were left with a $3,000 vet bill, our puppy died in surgery and we never found the owner b/c we went to the vet to try to save our puppy’s life instead of staying to get the guy’s info. He had a muzzle and didn’t use it! We saw him pull it out of his pocket after his dog attacked ours. His dog didn’t even have any warnings. No growling, posturing, barking, etc… just sniffed her like it was going to be friends and killed her. Owner did nothing while my husband and I tried to get the dog to let go! Where was the concern then? Maybe people should focus on the owners instead of the breed!
talk to dog walkers and people that are at these parks daily they will tell you it is more likely that your lab breed will cause a problem than the other dogs there. I would love to bring my dog to play with your dog, maybe it would show you that no not all apb’s are aggressive and yes they can be kept under control. There are people who will continue to generalize and live in fear. Unfortunately it looks like you are one of them.
Oh and conveniantly I just put great dane into google and attack. And guess what popped up FIRST on the news lead?
http://www.myfoxlubbock.com/dpp/news/dpg…
Here is the Google link with the 300,000 articles that match.
http://www.google.com/search?q=great+dan…
Ohh and @117 I won’t even bother with your “facts”. They are bogus. I’ll keep my own personal assessment and rest on what I’ve personally witnessed over many years of interacting with dogs of all breeds at dog parks.
I have no use for pit owners making continual excuses for examples they can’t deny. I will indeed keep trumpeting my “ban ’em” slogan. I have no use for dogs that are inherently bred to be fighters. Until you can show me proof where they were not historically bred to be fighters, I won’t back down.
The whole reason we have different breeds of dogs is because each breed has been bred for specific purposes over many generations. Please tell me what pit bulls are bred for again?? You simply cannot tell me that Pits are more advantageous to own compared to other breeds. There simply is no reason to not go with an alternative breed. Period.
You say that breed bans have never worked period? Sorry you are wrong. Bans have not “worked”, because the bans have too many loopholes, exceptions, and little strict enforcement. You want a pit ban with teeth? I’ll give you one.
Kill all pits upon sight within King County borders. No passing “Go!”, no excuses, no chances. Get rid of them entirely. Enact legislation that mandates a $5,000 fine and/or 1 year in jail minimum mandatory for anyone violating the ban. Further, anyone wanting to own a Rott, Pinscher, or Bulldog has to apply for a county license, provide proof of completion of AKC dog obedience I AND AKC Good Citizen cert, and provide proof of a $1,000,000 umbrella homeowners’ insurance policy to be allowed to own a dog.
Start there, and come back to me 3 years later, and we’ll “see” how effective my legislation is at reducing problems in off leash dog parks.
Good day.
119- I am sorry for your loss and do feel that the attitude is exactly as stated. If media can attach pitbull they want the story. If not it isn’t news.
@121…NOT RELEASING and LOCKING are two ways to say the VERY same thing…sorry I paraphrased.
Also…of course you’ll go with your own anecotal BS, bc none of the SCIENTIFIC DATA backs your flawed thinking.
Don’t worry amillan @122… we all are fully aware that was just likely you or julie or some other poser trying to be cute @119 with a lie. An anonymous poster with a bogus story trying to be all tongue in cheek snarky.
FAIL
Now run along and go play under traffic elsewhere troll.
Julie @123 well then I stand corrected.
Your paraphrasing is completely and wholly wrong. They are very well known for having a clamp down problem. I’ve witnessed it many times with pits, both in play situations, with law enforcement, and in attack situations in the past. It is not anecdotal, but rather personally witnessed. I’m not talking about a “physical” lock, but rather as a holistic picture of the dog that is stubborn, unresponsive, and impervious to pain when under stress.
The dogs simply will not detach from a fight, and it is much more psychological than physical. They have been bred to latch on and tear, choke, maim. That is their nature.
You can’t explain away nature, no matter how much your human emotions want to believe otherwise.
Sorry.
Awesome I answer your Great Dane request and it is not good enough…
You are fabulously STUPID! RC the websites I cited were all from the CDC or AVMA, and the Discovery Channel. Obviously bogus fact finding outlets I’m sure. Your ban would kill a lot of dogs that look like pitbulls or are mistaken for them on sight just because. Sounds a lot like the KKK and string up all the n*****, because obviously every black person is causing no good. Do you want to be responsible for the mastiffs, bull dogs, boxers, or any other number of dogs that would be killed? How about what is the deciding factor for HOW much pit bull is enough to put them down. Can we test your lab for Pitbull DNA? Or is your blueblooded lab direct decendants to the lab gods? There have been 3497 pitbulls killed in Denver under their ban. It has done nothing to stop dog bites.
http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/200…
Here is what you asked for: Oh I have also attached the 1.3 million PLUS Google searches with the word pit bull and hero.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=c…
In the United States these dogs were used as catch dogs for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, to drive livestock, and as family companions;[1] however, some were selectively bred for their fighting prowess,[2] and starting in the early 20th century they began to replace the bull terrier as the “dog of choice” for dog fighting in the United States.[3]
(Wikipedia)
Pit bulls are terriers and were bred to recognize other dogs as “prey.” Simply put, in a fight, the other dog becomes a “rabbit.” Terriers grab a hold of their prey and shake. Many pit bulls will instinctively do the same if they get into a scrap with another dog. As a result, breaking up a pit bull fight can be difficult if you don’t know what to do, but is easier than other breeds when you do know how to proceed.
The key is not to panic and use the right tools. Timing is important and the quicker you intervene, the better. However, it is necessary to assess the situation before sticking your hands in the middle of two dogs fighting.
Most rumbles can be stopped with a stern “No!” and by quickly pulling the dogs off of each other. If the altercation has escalated into a full blown fight, however, you will need more than your voice to stop the dogs. A water hose or bucket of water might work but in most cases the best tool to break up a pit bull fight is a break stick. No responsible owner should be without one.
http://www.pbrc.net/breakfight.html
http://www.examiner.com/x-3791-Pet-Life-…
BTW that bite and hold statistic is not a pit bull only trait, rather it’s a terrier trait. Similar to your labrador retriever trait to love water and retrieving. The funny thing with traits is they are not the same with every dog. Hence the reason that some dogs were culled to better a certain trait.
Also RC- did you happen to see any of the related articles about the pit that was owned by the killer that slit that womans throat in Georgetown? He tried several times unsuccessfully to get his dog to attack, it never would. Funny a dog that you assume must be the devil incarnate should have taken the immediate joy in tearing someone apart right?
@125…are you really this stupid or just trying to be cute? Anecdotal and personally experienced/witnessed/ told as a story by the storyteller mean the same thing..
Amillan @126
You did not answer my Great Dane request. The request was to tell me why we don’t have communities all over the country crying for GD bans? Why don’t we see stats in the same proportions that we do pits? I mean.. my gosh.. GD’s outweigh pits by 40-65 lbs and 2 feet in height! Sure you can find an occasional story about “breed “X”‘ biting someone somewhere… there are millions of dogs in the U.S.
Please don’t misstate my proposal on the ban amillan. It is very specific to Pit Bull terriers. In order to get legally specific, we’ll say that if a dog has more than 25% pit bull terrier or bull mastiff in their DNA, then they fall under the ban. Nice and simple. The kill suggestion would not apply to bull dogs or boxers, however they would be included with Rotts and Doberman’s in the restricted licensure group.
You can please go ahead and test my lab for pit bull terrier. lol … he is pure blooded back 4 generations on each side, and I can guarantee I paid more for him up front, than you have in the life of your dog.
Noone said killing all pits would stop ALL bites. Rather, that now that Denver has banned pits, (or what they call their “ban” … under watered down language/laws), but I guarantee that Denver is a safer community for trying to enact some restrictions. Now if only those restrictions were toughened up on pits, we’d see if overall bites go down, or just pit bites.
You see.. that is part of the problem you keep conflating… the issue isn’t BITES as much as it is VISCIOUS BLOODY ATTACKS that are far more escalated, violent, damaging, and injurious as compared toa single dog biting for one of thousands of reasons.
Pit Bull ATTACKS are violent events that can last from 1 to 10 mintues. Please stop comparing a different breed of dog’s 2-5 second bite with pit bull assaults.
Thanks.
@128 I was trying to be cute Julie…
but I was typing faster than thinking… my bad.
Came out wrong.
Well.. forgiven…can’t help being a bitch, myself:)Not a big deal.
The GD issue is easliy answerable…They are not as common as Pit bulls thus there are fewer in the population. Also, they were bred to guard, which makes them prone to territorialism rather than straight up DA
Teh goggle says that “KB” is a licensed vet technician. The killed and injured dogs are apparently not hers. The story in the comments of the killed puppy indicated that dogs killing dogs at the dog park are not news. The dog park is the last place I would take a dog for exercise or socialization because a small number of owners of challenging dogs know dick about dogs.
Every breed of dog has a distinct temperament that conscientious breeders strive to maintain. Pit bulls are likely to be randomly bred by their owners, so you never know what you’re going to get. The most dog-aggressive dogs I’ve seen have been beagles — but beagles can’t do that much damage.
Only people very experienced with dogs should own dogs with aggressive temperaments.
@131 Yes Julie there are not as many… however…
You simply cannot tell me that if a 145 lb massive Great Dane mauled a child, they wouldn’t kill it and dismember it into tiny pieces. And… if such a scenario were to happen, that it wouldn’t make national news, due to the immense size of said Great Dane, and the “picture” of a huge animal mauling/killing a young child.
It simply doesn’t happen. And statistically, there are enough GD’s around, and there have been enough GD’s in the USA in the past 15 years, that we would have heard of a story somewhere. And even if we heard one or even two examples, it would be newsworthy. Compare that with the thousands of examples of pits. You don’t need to go back years. You don’t need to go back months. They are everywhere.
It cannot be denied that when talking statistics and proportions that we have a huge problem in this country that bleeding heart humans refuse to allow laws to be created for the good of the whole population.
Once again… I ask… why… would anyone considering a dog… and considering that there are hundreds of breeds of dogs…. intentionally and deliberately choose to own a pit? There are none. There is no reason not to choose a different breed.
Maybe if shelters didn’t allow pits to be adopted, we’d see this “popularity” crash. It is quite likely that the logic goes hand in hand with the availability and large amount of “adoptable” pits in shelters, and that the problem is simply multiplying itsself thru sheer human ignorance.
Considering the general ignorance that exists in the US population, I think I might have discovered my own answer.
Umm Great Danes are on that list of 75 banned breeds in the US. Just before your beloved Labs…
http://www.asaspades.org/2009/04/list-of…
Wow your storytelling is fabulous. It is a PROVEN fact that the only thing pit bull bans do is take away good dogs from families that have never had any sign of bite history, because of your hypothetical number of people being brutally attacked by pitbulls. They don’t even hinder the criminal underbelly that actually take advantage of this dog.
The problem with your ban is this can you even pick out the pit bull? 3 breeds are listed under the pit bull name American Staffordshire, American Bull Terrier, and Staffordshire Terrier. There are 36 OTHER breeds that have bully looks and are often called pit bulls included Cane Corso, Dogo Argentine, Presa Canario, Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog, American Bulldogs, etc. Lets see how good you are at picking the right ones to cull. Bet you kill a few innocents. The only way to know for sure is to DNA test. Funny thing is often these dogs that are labeled as pits in the pound would come back as mixed up mutts with little pit bull blood at all.
http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Findthe…
And if the cases that are listed with dog attacks are so rare, then why are there 138,000 results? Wonder if the child that was attacked by the Great Dane today thought her 5 minutes of being dragged around and mauled by it were short.
Misconception #1:BSL Targets the Most Reported Biters
Let’s also be fair: Dog bite reports are notoriously inaccurate, relying heavily on personal perception and possible bias when labeling a dog’s breed. Whenever a dog is a mixed breed, it should be labeled as such.
Willmar, Minnesota : For several years, the number one biters have been “mixed breed” dogs, followed by Labrador Retrievers.
Iowan city
For three years in a row, Labrador Retrievers have topped the bite list
Victoria, Australia
Between 1997-1999, 700 attacks were reported. Forty-six breeds were identified.
– German Shepherd: 127 attacks
– Cattle dog: 90 attacks
In fact, Rottweilers, Kelpies, Labrador Retrievers,Staffordshire Bull Terriers, Bull Terriers,Crossbreeds, Dobermans, Boxers, Jack Russell Terriers, and Rhodesian Ridgebacks bit more frequently than the American Pit Bull Terrier (21 bites).
In Winnipeg
1989: 31% of dog bites committed by German Shepherds and their crosses; only 9% committed by pit bulls and their mixes.
Pit bulls banned.
(Source for the two UK references and Winnipeg)
Edmonton, Canada – Since a 1997 implementation of breed restriction, 4 breeds have the same bite rate as pit bulls and 11 breeds exceed the number of bites inflicted by pit bulls. Source: Page 8
Kitchener/Waterloo
– Number of pit bull bites: 18. Number of German Shepherd bites: 85
– Pit bulls banned.
Perth County,Ontario
– Dog bite statistics compiled since January 2002 show just 1% of bites attributed to ‘pit bulls’. One third of reported bites were caused by mixed breed dogs, and the top five biting breeds were, in order: Chow Chow, Jack Russell Terrier, Labrador Retriever, Dachshund, and Rottweiler. Source
Ottawa, Ontario – Of the nearly 900 reports of bite incidents in Ottawa, Ontario for the last three years, only five were attributable to pit bulls. The largest number of bite incidents involved Black Labrador Retrievers and Golden Retrievers. Source
UK study Percentage of bites by THREE breeds (American Pit Bull Terrier, Rottweiler, Doberman) BEFORE BSL: 6%
Percentage of bites by German Shepherd BEFORE BSL: 24%
German Shepherds are not banned.
http://community.livejournal.com/stop_bs…
@ 134 hahahahaahhaah
Are you serious? You expect us to take you seriously when you post a blog website of some individual who names the “Responsible Dog Owners Of The Western States (RDOWS) ” as it’s source? Really?
hahahahaahaha
puh-leaseeeeee!
This “group” of highly influential individuals hails from …. Newport WA hahahaha
Ohhhhh maybe I should go join their Yahoo newsgroup! hhahahahaha
Furthermore… this “group” that created this list… is also the same group that opposes breedspecific legislation? bwhahahahaa
are you pimping your own site(s) Cherie Graves? Inquiring minds want to know!
quote:
About Responsible Dog Owners of the Western States Responsible Dog Owners of the Western States is a not for profit organization founded October 15, 1989. RDOWS promotes responsible dog ownership through educational programs, pamphlets, fliers, and this group & website.
RDOWS supports the right of every person to own the breed, or mixed breed of dog of his/her choice in a responsible manner.
fyi rocketscientist… this “email” and hoax has been travelling the internet for awhile now… and has been used in “debates” anytime a ban discussion has occurred. You really are a talking shill aren’t you?
Oh I love Cheri Graves…She’s the BEST!
@134… ohh and for the record… in regards to all the afore named breeds you posted… BAN THEM ALL if they are associated with Pit Bulls. Period. We need to exterminate the breed(s) that have been bred for fighting, and continue to cause problems with humans, and other more gentle breeds.
Please do us all a favor, and stop SPAMMING this site with “LiveJournal” articles, “BlogSpot” blogs, etc etc… as verifiable “sources” mmmmm k?
All these sites are is talking pieces for pit loving morons, who continually fail to acknowledge that their beloved breed has serious flaws. They each go out and create “ban lists”, and silly articles, and each continues to point at the other as “sources”.
What a joke.
A Great Dane show dog mauled it’s owner/handler (an adult)this summer and it was covered by ZERO National News Networks and 1 Local. You can find it on the KC Dogblog…I can’t post a link to save my life so I won’t bother, but this DID happen and It was not picked up by the media
So..you wanna ban Boxers and Boston Terriers?
@139 no. definitely not. I do want the “other” marginally agressive breeds to have restrictions on both dogs and owners.
See my post @121 (expand it), and @129 for the proposal.
BUT they were bred to fight…so
You are friggin JAck ASS!! What studies do you cite? You laugh at the ones that include blog posts, but deny the CDC studies and AVMA.
The 75 dogs on that list are dogs that have been banned or have restrictions in the US. Just because it was compiled by someone in a group called RDOWS, does not make it inaccurate. Check each one I bet you will find locations in the US that ban the dogs on the list. Nice that you finally clicked ONE of the attachments sent. That is the only one you can dispute eh?
How about the bully test? How’d you do? Did you kill the boxer? How bout your lab? You probably got that one right.
I am no shill. I have been around pibbles and own one myself. I believed the stories before I did my research too. Now I will heartily stand up for the breed I own. Any dog is what you make them. The CDC, AVMA, ATTS temperament testing, CGC testing, therapy dog certification, all these groups would have to be off their rockers to allow pit bulls to continue if they did what you say they do. The reality is there are a few bad bulls that give a bad name to the majority of the good ones. The stories you hear cause an uproar and keep the comment sections full as people debate, which means money for the stranger and other news outlets. The titles of other dogs attacking don’t make headlines because they are not considered as important. If there was a check on how many dogs had been killed at dog parks pit bulls would be on the list, but so would a lot of other dogs too.
AND I have had enough of your trolling stupidity. you want to start fights and pull facts that cannot be cited than call me an idiot. Look in the mirror SPAZ!
I love how the counter-argument to claims that pit bulls are dangerous is “There are lots of other breeds that are dangerous too!” This would seem like an argument to ban almost all dogs.
@141 Hence the heavy restrictions, insurance and licensure requirements that need to be placed on them. Pit Bulls and all sub-variants need to be eliminated from the gene pool.
Hell I’ll even compromise a bit further, and suggest that we immediately spade and neuter all current pits, with the phaseout goal occurring with 5-8 years, once current pits start dying off naturally.
There simply is no need for a dog bred for fighting anymore, if there even ever was. There are many other breeds to choose a family pet from.
My earlier question related to this has still to yet be answered:
Once again… I ask… why… would anyone considering a dog… and considering that there are hundreds of breeds of dogs…. intentionally and deliberately choose to own a pit?
Simply stated, there is NO reason not to choose a different dog from a different breed.
That is why I don’t believe those arguing against pit bans are doing so in good faith. The underlying logic of why they “should” be owned simply isn’t there. The stated purpose of pits is no longer legal, ethical or moral. Why would you want to own something that has the potential to think/act on its own and cause you legal and monetary disaster?
Pit bulls aren’t the problem, hip hoppers are….
@21, 43, 46, …. 145 et al.
No amount of Breed Specific Laws are going to change the fact that black people live in your neighborhood. So, stop being racist assholes who use dogs as a proxy for race.
At 20 deaths per year dogs are far from a legitimate threat to our safety. But, still people crap themselves over Pit Bulls so they can make thinly veiled threats against black people.
You all need to shut up and put your time into something constructive for society.
All these posts about banning breeds are just a distraction. The problem is the irresponsible owners who bring aggressive dogs to off-leash areas and let them run loose. They are breaking the rules of the off-leash areas. And they are breaking laws. Other dog owners who witness the behavior of these irresponsible people who fail to control their aggressive dog should be reporting these incidents to animal control. And the owners of dogs that are injured or killed should file complaints and demand that the city enforce the laws that are already on the books. These jerks are ruining it for everyone else.
I am in total agreement. As a dog owner who has frequented the Magnuson Park off-leash park for the past 15 years, I have witnessed occasional dog aggression from a variety of breeds. But most recently, because of the surge in pit bull ownership I suppose, I have observed most dog aggression from pit bulls. One of the park rules is that male dogs are to be altered, which does prevent a lot of problems. But if your dog is not well socialized, he/she should not be brought to the dog park at all. I will make sure to carry a cell phone with me from now on when at the dog park to call 911 when I observe dogs such as the ones who committed the recent heinous crime to report the OWNER.
It is a park rule they have to be altered? Please show me where it says this. I could find no such “rule” when looking. It is not posted anywhere at the park…
My dog will never be altered, as he is too valuable for later breeding. There is no way that could be a requirement for a public park as that is discriminatory against well behaved intact males.
Maybe we can require owners of pit bulls to be altered if their dogs are involved in violent assaults?
Hmmm now that is something I think we can all support!
Here is the link:
http://www.seattle.gov/parks/publication…
YO, HUMANS!
You are liable for damage or injury inflicted by your dog(s) (SMC 18.12.080).
You must be in control of your dog(s) at all times (SMC 18.12.080).
You must muzzle dogs that exhibit dangerous or aggressive behavior; biting, fighting, and excessive barking are not allowed (SMC 9.25.024).
You must leash your dog when it is outside the off-leash area; you must carry a leash for each dog while you are inside the off-leash area (SMC 9.25.084 and 12.18.080).
You must clean up after your dog(s) and deposit feces in the containers at the site, and you must visibly carry scoop equipment (SMC 9.25.082 and 18.12.080).
You must closely supervise young children.
Bring food into off-leash areas at your own risk.
Leave bicycles outside off-leash area.
Unattended dogs are not allowed in off-leash areas.
Owners who see unattended dogs or other rule violations should call Animal Control at 206-386-7387, Extension 2.
———————————-
YO, DOGS!
If you’re female and you’re in heat, you are not allowed in off-leash areas (SMC 9.25.084).
If you’re a puppy younger than four months of age, you are not allowed in off-leash areas.
To come and play in off-leash areas, you need to be licensed and vaccinated (SMC 9.25.080 and 12.18.080).
If you wear a pinch or choke collar, ask your human to remove it when you come into off-leash areas.
For more information, please call Animal Control at 206-386-7387.
Here is the full .pdf file: http://www.seattle.gov/parks/publication…