I, Anonymous

1. yeah its pretty obvious from this biased perspective that it was rape. obvious as fuck.

2. heather, seattle is a fairly progressive place to live. sure, most men would agree that a girl should be more careful when she’s drinking. i think we can all agree that the girl made a bad decision. that is, if she regrets it in the morning. for all we know, the girl wanted to get drunk and fuck. seriously.

3. Um.. AKSeth, your analogies make the case for the absurdity of “I was drunk when I raped her so it’s not my fault,” not “I was drunk when I was raped so it’s not my fault.” It’s too ironic that you try to make an ignorant point and end up misusing your own analogy. Oh, but maybe you were drunk when you made that stupid comment so it isn’t really your fault you sound like an asshole with half a community college degree.

4. …but its pretty obvious from the context that that was not the case here.

   IT IS?

   Bull shit. Listen, douche bag, start picking out your blond wig ‘cuz your balls have almost shrunk away completely.

5. platypusrex,
   Whether or not getting wasted is a bad decision is a topic for another forum, I think. But getting wasted does not imply that a person consents to or deserves or is responsible for getting raped. Being drunk doesn’t suddenly make you responsible for the actions of others. (for the record, we don’t even know if this girl *got* wasted on purpose. she could have only had only one drink, and been drugged. who knows? the jump to say that she’s to blame is just illogical.)

6. No one in this posting had any sex. There was no sex and no rape. The real problem here is that the author has decided the best way to deal with this issue is to send in an anonymous letter to the local alt weekly instead of growing a spine and confronting this guy. Instead he walks around the party (after the couple has left) unfairly slandering this guy behind his back. He also doesn’t understand that a group of your buddies assaulting an innocent drunk is not a courageous act of chivalry defending the honor of a maiden. It is exactly what it sounds like: ASSAULT. Every bit as much of a crime as this potential rape.

7. AKSeth said:

   I was drunk when I was driving so I’m not responsible for that DWI and manslaughter charge…

   It’s not my fault I abused my children I was drunk all the time…

   I was drunk when I beat the crap out of him so I shouldn’t go to jail for assault…

   We were drunk when we fucked so he’s a rapist…

   Ooh, yay! We get to play the WHICH OF THESE DOES NOT BELONG? game now! (Obviously being raped while drunk is on the same level as killing someone with your car while drunk, abusing your child, and beating the fuck out of someone. OH YES, I SEE THE LOGIC)

   Let’s not forget that despite completely different power dynamics and indoctrinated gender roles in society – and the massively changed circumstances it would require because of that – women can rape men in EXACTLY the same way as men can rape women. I mean, AKSeth said it! His experience is completely representative of everyone else’s! (Male privilege? What’s THAT?)

   Feminism, you tool. Learns you it.

   P.S. I also support the right of this Anonymous to beat the crap out of the destined rapist. It’s what Jesus would do.

8. I can’t believe I just read that entire comment section. I feel like my mind was just raped.

9. Eh, it seems that I have not been able to view the comments. As such, I hereby amend my final comment:

   Feminism, you tools. Learns you it.

   God but I wish these fuckwits would grow two neurons to rub together and realize that their engorged patriarchy is not an acceptable substitute for empathy and compassion.

   From the bottom up, then, kiddies!

   Cricket, you have a warped idea of what “verbal assault” constitutes. Also, for the record, rape is worse than verbal assault (also most physical assaults).

   platypusrex256, “most men” have two options: a) grow the fuck up and stop themselves and their friends from raping women (because, hello? FOCUS ON THE PERPETRATOR HERE FOLKS, NOT THE VICTIM) or b) kindly off themselves at the earliest convenience. I know some awesome places to get double-edged razor blades. I’m not saying anything, I’m just sayin’.

   jadedpersona, I agree. I would also like to add, for the sake of the dumbshits out there who are absolutely convinced that women and men being “equal in the law” (even though they aren’t – re: abortion, pay gap, unfair pay gap rulings, health care, etc.etc.etc.) it meants they’re equal in society, too:

   If you’re sober enough to fuck her, you’re raping her. Go back to your rape porn and cry about it.

   Tom, omigosh it’s soooo serious to be charged with rape! Even though, like, so few rapists even get CHARGED, much less PROSECUTED, much less CONVICTED, much less PUT IN PRISON, rape is totally harsh to be charged with.

   Reality, you tool. Learns you it.

   CarefulHareful needs to stop staring at his pretty, pretty bollocks and realize that not all things are bunnies and sunshine in WE ARE SUCH A GREAT, EQUAL COUNTRY land.

   shifty logan, I need your phone number so I can call your mommy and tell her what you’ve been doing, because I’m pretty sure she wouldn’t like her computer being used that way, young man!

   Heatherly has learned the ways of the mysterious FEMINAZIZOMGLOL. I salute you!

   Josh, what are they being held accountable for, again? OH RIGHT, BEING BORN WITH A CUNT. Stupid slut! She shouldn’t have started gestating, didn’t she know some jerkoff would try to stick his dingly in her hoohah without her consent?!

   Pheasant is a blinding bundle of awesomeness so atomically dense that they must be stopped immediately lest the universe collapse on itself.

   Oh YES Margie, women TOTALLY want to be raped. Every woman I know with PTSD flashbacks from some asshole raping her must just be wanting to relive the experience, and anyone who says they didn’t like it is lying! (Is it hard to speak with that thing in your mouth, by the way?)

   Dane, your shtick is getting old. Can you please just crawl back under the rock you came from? Your self-superior whining is hurting my ears.

   God. Mr. Puterschmidt is just another in the eternal line of self-righteous angry porn-raised boys whining, BUT WHAT ABOUT TEH MENZ?

   Leon, too. Excuse me while I play you a sorrowful tune on the world’s smallest violin for the great injustice that has been inflicted upon you of probably not going to be raped…

   PETA PEOPLE EATING TASTY ANIMALS relies too much on shock humor and cliche for his own good. Let’s hope it garners him a Darwin Award sooner rather than later. Also – honey, sweetie, sugarpie… you need to know something.

   Lesbians? Have better sex than you ever will.

   Kip Schoning, you should probably make note of that, too. Your sexual insecurity’s showing, and what kind of ~*~*~*~*lesbian bitch*~*~*~*~ would I be if I didn’t aggravate that? Why, my Feminazi Membership Card might be pulled!

   Moving on, then.

   ImNotYourBuddyGuy and kenair wants us all to say it with them: BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MENZ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

   liam firmly believes that someone’s completely justified ranting about people who are wrong and refuse to admit it can be invalidated simply by calling the ranter a “bitch”.

   Okay, I think that’s all. We cool? Alright, cool. All you radfems out there, party at my place! Oh, and the misogynists I mentioned in this post… um… well, I believe the Drano’s on aisle four. Godspeed.

10. Drunk = can’t give consent, even if she told you earlier that she wanted to fuck you. If she’s drunk, she can’t consent. period. In this case when others saw her “stumble(d) out of my room, falling down three times”, if she decides to press charges. Case closed, rapist. If it’s your word against their word, who knows, but here’s the legal description of second degree rape:

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?…

11. I want to marry you.

12. Wow. I don’t know what to think, honestly. A lot of things could have happened there. It sounds like she was a lot drunker than him–too drunk. Probably he was being somewhere from asshole to borderline rapist. It’s vaguely possible that she had been the initiator, hitting on him earlier. It’s probable that he encouraged her to get drunk. At the end of the day, my emotions more or less trust the interpretation of the I, Anonymous writer, who was there. He was probably about to sexually assault that girl.

    But: here’s a serious question I’d like to ask more generally:

    If a girl is drunk, but also very much sexually into you–and actively participating in the sex–is that rape on the guy’s part? That seems a bit harsh. What do you think?

13. @Jack Frost, according to factsontap.org, >70% of college kids admit to having sex while drunk, so I guess that 70% of students are raping each other. Or are they? If the drunk girl that has been/is totally into you, jumping all over your drunk bone (i.e. actively participating), and maybe she’s even your gf, decides to press charges for whatever reason–>rape. Was it rape before she pressed charges or even regardless of whether she presses charges? http://www.icasa.org queried a group of women who met the definition of having been rape, whether they felt they were raped, and only 49% felt they were raped.

    I’d rather have a law that is intentionally non-specific with a broad definition so that you capture all acts of rape (i.e. no instances of a person being raped but not fitting the definition). The more narrow and specific the law, the easier it is to find loopholes.

14. “Josh, in honest curiosity, how is the woman in the situation not being held to the same standard? Standards don’t apply here even. She was stumbling, could hardly control her body. Yet he was sober enough to understand he had been caught and realized he needed to cough up ten bucks to make this just go away. I also took it from the article that he tried to use Valentine’s Day to excuse his behavior; excuses are only offered for wrongful behavior.”

    THIS. CS&C, you win reading for comprehension.

15. Understand this fact: in many states, if a person (male or female) is intoxicated, in any way, they are no considered able to give consent.

    The issue is: sometimes people get drunk & have sex & end up feeling used. Sometimes people are really really drunk & really do get sexually used because they can’t/don’t have a sober enough frame of mind to say ‘no’.

    Men can feel this just as women can, however, men do the penetrating & therefor usually have more control in the situation, drunk or not.

    This is not a matter of opinion. Although it may not seem very rape-y because no one was bent over a washing machine with a sock in her mouth, it still is, legally rape.

    Moral: if you are going to have drunken sex with someone, be certain that they are comfortable & their needs are met & you know them well enough that it is very unlikely that they will wakeup feeling abused.

16. You sound like a first year…

17. 1. This was not a case of regular drunk sex. He didn’t know her, they met that night. She was too drunk to even sit up on her own when I saw her very shortly after this happened.

    2. You left out the part where she fell down the stairs, onto me. Causing me to fall onto some other guy. Which made him spill his drink everywhere. That was fun.

18. Seattle is filled with self-rightious lesbians who think that every drunk woman got herself there by accident. Think on this, sometimes people don’t need saving. And just because YOUR love life has been dissapointing, doesn’t give you license to be a Cock-Blocker. My point being: Don’t jump to conclussions.

19. But a lot of the girls who are THAT drunk in that situation do need saving, theniceyoungman , and if we let every single one slide because we don’t want to “jump to conclusions”, the bad cases HIGHLY outweigh the positive.

    Yeah, there are plenty of girls who get drunk and want to be fucked. But usually those girls can still have some control. It really like sounds like this girl had none — she wasn’t in the right frame of mind to give consent, and she definitely was not in the shape to fight off an attack if she had said no.

    So thanks to the I, Anonymous for having the balls to stand up for a girl who couldn’t even stand on her own two feet. Hopefully the guy will remember this lesson and choose his partners more carefully.

20. Great, Stranger. You post an article about “rape” in the same edition that you exhibit a steamy picture of naked high school cheerleaders mimicing ecstasy and orgasm on your film page, legitimizing trash by bestowing “commentary” (which of necessity can only be trivial and retarded).

    Nice, Stranger. To pretend to give a peanut about rape and sexual abuse while glorifying the enshrined sexual debasement of girls.

    The problem with the Stranger, besides its longstanding anti-intellectualism, is that its editor-in-chief is a homosexual male who could care less about the value and dignity of women. In his world, women are dispensible, perhaps even disposable, and his paper reflects his personal pathology.

    Thanks, Dan, for your sexual “liberation.”

21. Well, as a former Drunk Girl, I can tell you that you can’t draw any real conclusions from this letter.
    Well, except that this person has some really cheesy friends, and is probably still a teenager.
    There were PLENTY of times I was totally down to sleep with a guy even though I couldn’t walk and could hardly speak. In fact,there were times I would freak out if someone wouldn’t go through with it! Most times I was the one running around trying to charm the pants of of hot men ( while I was still sober enough to talk). In the morning I’d have to ask how it was… Anyhow those were my own issues at the time.

    As an ex-drunk girl, I have passed out in some pretty “safe” places, and woken up to someone having sex with me when I didn’t do anything to lead on to the fact that it was consensual. Since I was such a drunk most of the time, I did feel like the unwanted advances were my fault in a way. I don’t agree now, but that’s a whole different story…

    Who knows? Is this guy really a rapist? What if all he is guilty of is having no class? What if he really thought 10 bucks was a fair trade for his friend to have to do a load of laundry? I’d kick him in the balls anyhow, he sounds lame.

22. And if both people are drunk, does that mean they raped each other? Retard.

23. I don’t know where Sara and Cut His Body Off get their ideas, but as a cop I can tell you (1)it is not necessarily rape if a woman has been drinking, and (2)yes, a drunk person can give consent!
    In any case, you, Anonymous, rock!

24. What about St. Patrick’s Day? It’s coming up soon…

25. Wow, I didn’t know he tried to pay you later man. That is messed up.

    I wish I knew this stuff was going on at the time, I would have made that kid road tar out front.

    And for all you ‘I raped my wife?’ ass wipes. Your wife is not some random chick you met at a party who was fucked up from the get go and probably from what everyone at the party has told me sounds like she wouldn’t have been able to know she was having sex much less give consent. If they are more asleep then awake the line is not a fuzzy one here.

    More over I know you are a guy (so weird not getting to say your name), but I got thin morals on hurting people (I mean heck it turns out I broke the rib of that guy who sleeps on the coach a lot), so let me know as you show the kid the door next time.

    Till then you should come crash at my place sometime, it is easier to sleep in, rape or no rape

26. HUGE difference between drunk/stoned sex with a partner you’ve already consented to (like a husband/wife, boyfriend/girlfriend) and a new partner/relationship in which consent has not been given soberly previously.

    Hell, some of the best sex I ever had was with my common-law husband on acid. But had we just been dating and not yet intimate, it could have been considered rape on both our parts!

    The sort of drunk sex being described is, imo, rape.

27. why don’t you ask the girl if she was “raped”? does she regret the situation she put herself in or not? if she says she wasn’t, are you willing to assume she’s too damned stupid to speak for herself? i bet many of you are…

28. Anon, you’re my hero.

29. If I was too drunk to stand, got cornered in a locked room, and some enterprising female or male took advantage, and I ended up, say, with a nasty case of VD or a lovely new young family member, or both, – then the holiday, setting, drunkenness, prior plans, how well I know them, hormones, etc are off the table: I’d call it RAPE without a second thought. So would most Seattle judges.

30. BScaller- you typify the kind of troll that protests on here, claiming to be sticking up for equality, but are really trying to hide the fact that you don’t find the man’s actions deplorable… you might even harbor your own date rape history, and don’t want the ‘good thing going’ of drunk fucks (and so many girls and boys confused about what’s rape and what’s not) to end.
    Well FUCK YOU; you’ll get yours in the end… and he won’t even give you a reach-around.

31. To all, regardless of gender or trollness: Getting just as drunk as your victim, or more? That’s stupidity and maybe alcoholism, but it ain’t consent. Consent is the word yes. You may have learned no means no, but yes is just as important. You’re not grown-up-enough to ask ‘do you wanna do it now’ when in a dark room with two adults? But ‘adult’ enough to mouth-off online? Grow a pair of ovaries already…
    Formula’s simple: You can be clothed, married, unaroused, gay, virginal, Mormon, cousins, drunk, and/or crazy and still say ‘yes’ – then (assuming everyone’s of age) it’s not rape.
    “Yes, fuck me now” = not rape. All other answers = not worth finding out if its rape or not. No = you know this one, thxkbyebye.
    Can’t-talk-too-comatose-right-now = time for coffee, you; write your number on their hand with a note on their arm that reads ‘thanks for the wild night you sexy beast. Call me and we’ll do it even better next time’. Works for me every damn time.

32. What info we have:
    The door was locked, and the drunker of the two about to get it on couldn’t stand, three times (and then later fell down the stairs). $10 was offered to ‘let us be alone’ but only by one party, the male.
    I’m willing to play devil’s advocate and say the female locked the door, perhaps wanting privacy for either a make out session, a paid blow, or sex, but I’m very glad ANON intervened. You’ll notice there was no protesting from the woman – if she was saying yes/consenting, wouldn’t she have said ‘hey, stop calling him a rapist, what we were doing was private, you kinky voyeur’ ? No mention of that.

    Cockblocked? Hardly. There’s a different word for a guy who can’t get it on without cash, a locked door, and/or intoxication…. [And can’t afford a damn motel room, and instead steals someone else’s room: WTF, are you 16??!?]

    Though the comments make it unclear if our anon is male or female, Big Kudos anyway to Seattle’s version of TERRIFICA!™

33. the big difference between your examples, AKSeth, is that it is a crime to drink and drive, drink and beat someone, but it is not a crime to drink and be raped.

    so it doesn’t make sense to hold someone accountable for “their actions” when the crime, the raping, was committed by someone sober, or more sober.

    this doesn’t deprive anyone of the right to get drunk and screw. but it does deprive everyone of the right to use drunkenness as an excuse not to know, for sure, that your partner wants you to sleep with them.

34. you know it might help if woman tried controling their drinking when their at Co-ed parties??? I mean maybe if you thoguht about contorling yourself then the problem might be solved… you know it’s an issue, you know that drunk girls get “raped” So why the hell do you continue to get drunk around drunk guys??? Either you love the attention, or you have something against men, or you are a glutten for pain, or more than likely… YOUR JUST PLAIN FUCKING STUPID… Take care of your actions and stop blaming men for having sex with girls who are drunk and horny!

35. Dude! Why didn’t you take the $10 or tag team that shit? That was some FREE PUSSY!

36. AKSETH: You comparisons are off base and inappropriate. Along the lines of what emaltz was saying, there’s a huge difference between a criminal trying to avoid fault by claiming that he was drunk when he committed a crime, and a rape victim being to drunk to consent to sex. You do know the difference between a criminal and a victim?

37. i have had this same thing happen to me. yes, its rape.

38. Subtleties Matter – get your fucking head out of your ass. There is no gray area here. Remember your reasoning when your daughter comes home form a valentines party and tells you what happened… Christ, you sound like a real douche nozzle.

39. In the state of Washington I don’t believe there is a statute that would define rape between a husband and a wife. So feel free to get wasted and take advantage of your spouse all weekend long, in this state you waved goodbye to legally saying no when you signed the marriage license.

40. @Damnit Erik! the “RANT” you posted makes me laugh. Way to be a tough guy on the interwebz!

41. AKSeth, a better analogy would be if you got so drunk that your KIDS were able to beat the shit out of YOU. Shouldn’t they be held accountable?

42. Also, I can’t believe that there are still people saying that it’s the woman’s fault for drinking. By that logic, every rape is the woman’s fault, because women should know better than to ever leave their goddamn houses. Or they should know better than to STAY in their goddamn houses where a rapist might find them. It’s their fault for even posessing a vagina, because they should have known that vaginas can be penetrated against their will. So you’ve heard it here, ladies; if you don’t want to get blamed for your rape, you’d better sew yourself up. And don’t use any of that cheap weak-ass thread, either. You don’t want to make it easy for a rapist to tear through it; if you do, you’re a whore. After all, those poor men just can’t help themselves.

    Rape isn’t some sort of fitting punishment for un-ladylike behavior. Everybody with half a social life goes out and drinks. It’s not exactly an unspeakable act that women need to be terrified of doing because it could possibly make her somewhat easier to rape. I don’t know how you dipshits manage to keep forgetting that every rape involves a RAPIST. Do you honestly think that it’s more reasonable to expect women to be terrified of having a good time than to expect men to not rape people? What kind of rejection issues do you need to have in order to have such bitterness towards women? Why is it only rape where people blame the victim; how come we never see gunshot victims being accused of “asking for it” by not wearing a bulletproof vest every day?

    This scenario isn’t a gray area. If the girl had been sober enough to consent, she would have been sober enough to tell Anonymous to fuck off. If the guy had been too drunk to realize what he was doing, he would have been too drunk to offer Anonymous the 10 bucks. But a girl lying on the bed and obliviously drooling while some guy offers Anonymous 10 bucks to “hush things up” isn’t what consentual drunken sex looks like, and everyone who isn’t either a complete dipshit or a rapist trying to rationalize his past actions knows this.

    I’m not arguing that all drunken sex is rape. If a girl shows interest in me throughout an evening, starting when she’s sober, and then keeps being enthusiastic as we get more and more into things, we’ll go ahead and fuck each other. However, if she’s barely moving or talking, I don’t fuck her. If she can’t participate enthusiastically (a foreign concept for you rape apologists), then she can’t consent. No matter what she was drinking, wearing, or saying earlier.

    I’ll say it again: consentual drunken sex is pretty fucking easy to distinguish from date rape, and having a good time at a party is not some rape-worthy crime.

43. Bonefish is a ball of awesomeness!!

44. shoulda offered more money and ice cream..

45. Was the girl too trashed to consent? Probably. She sounds young and foolish enough to get drunk and go into a room with shitheels. But I could imagine similar things about the guy—young, dumb, drunk. Many decent guys did incredibly stupid and evil shit as drunken teens.

    During a drunken youth I maybe fell into either role once (took advantage of a drunk/was taken advantage of). One time I sobered for a second and realized the college friend I was about to fuck was too drunk to do anything other than what I did to her. I helped her dress and apologized profusely the next day. The other time I woke up in a strange bed with a woman decades older and two huge dogs growling at me from a few feet away.

    In both cases I knew that alcohol had taken me to a place I wouldn’t have gone otherwise and took responsibility for that fact. Are drunk women (and men) ever taken advantage of ? Sadly, yes. But does this mean they also do not need to take some degree of personal responsibility for putting themselves in that situation? Saying it is rape anytime the woman is drunk removes accountability for being in that state and encourages a victim mentality.

46. ddp, read my earlier post. Nobody is arguing that all drunken sex is rape. People are arguing two things:

    1) If the person is too drunk to give consent, then yes, it is rape.

    2) If a drunk person is raped, it is NOT their fault for being drunk. They do not need to take responsibility for it. It’s nobody’s responsibility to assume that they will be raped if they go out and have a good time and drink too much. It is everyone’s (reasonable) responsibility to avoid raping people, whether they’ve drank or not. The fact that being drunk in a room full of shitheels increases the likelihood of rape is ENTIRELY THE FAULT OF THE SHITHEELS WHO WOULD RAPE HER.

    It’s one thing to advise someone to avoid getting drunk with strangers or to avoid walking alone at night through NY Central park. It’s quite another thing to say that they’re responsible for the actions of other people once they do these things.

    I’ll say it yet again: the responsibility always lies with the rapist, since they are the ones who make the conscious decision to rape someone else. The fact that it happens to be a little less difficult for them now and then is completely fucking irrelevant. How many more times do we have to hammer the point into your heads?

47. Damnit Erik!, yeah, it IS a serious thing to charge someone with rape, even if all rapes don’t get reported and all rapists that are reported don’t get convicted. It’s a FELONY, and it is not something to take lightly. The answer to people not reporting rapes and to rapists not being convicted IS NOT to charge people with rape when they DID NOT have sex with someone against their will or when they were incapable of consenting on the screwball theory (the one that I responded to above) that if a woman has had one drink then its rape if she says it is.

    Sorry that you’re upset to read a simple commonsense point on the matter, but making every guy out there who has had sex with someone after she’s had a reasonable amount to drink and is still in her right mind, not an unreasonable amount and is no longer in her right mind, like the woman in the article, is a great way to undermine the seriousness with which people take rape charges that involve actual rape.

48. Tom, I would say that the answer to the problem of under-reported rape crimes is for people to stop blaming the victim. I’m not saying that it’s cool to walk around accusing innocent people of rape (though the guy in the article was NOT innocent), but false reports are not as common as people think, and they’re definitely not the reason that so many rapes go unreported.

    The biggest reason for that is a combination of fear and shame, and the shame is mostly due to the fact that it’s still pathetically common for people to judge the actions of the rape victim, and not the rapist, when it happens.

49. Having been the girl who was too drunk to fight someone off this situation is most definitely rape and it is wrong. Both of us were drunk and he was so persistant; I was trying to be nice and not ‘be a bitch’ (I was actually interested in the guy or else I wouldn’t have let myself to be in such a vulnerable position)…however, we did have sex against my will mostly because I was too drunk to fight him off (although I did have a lot of bruises on my body the next day) – but I just laughed it off becuase he was a ‘friend’ and roommate…but I was miserable about it the next morning and the next few months – but I comprehended enough about the situation to know that it wasn’t ‘my fault’; needless to say I did not date for a. long. time. afterwards. I was also careful to not be inebriated/intoxicated with someone of the opposite sex for a very…long…time…A hard sad lesson to learn but I know I am not the only woman out there to trust someone who seems like a nice guy but is a predator…

50. Is Christmas an excuse for rape?

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