I broke up with a girl who wasn’t hot enough for me. I tried my whole life to not be that kind of guy. I treated her carelessly because she wasn’t that important to me. I was self-indulgent and rude and disrespectful, and it made her cry. She’s perfectly attractive, but not in an obvious way, which is what I want. I don’t want to abandon her, because she is a pillar of support that I truly need. She’s the first girl I ever fucked, and I’m the first guy she ever dated. She is 28 and I am 24. We have known each other for one year. Is it a bad idea to maintain a relationship with her while I pursue other women? Would it be better to end all contact? What is a man who is pathologically worried about being an asshole to do?

Must Remain Anonymous

So… you were a virgin at age 23 when you met this woman.

Hm.

I’m guessing you’re not all that conventionally attractive yourself, MRA. You’re attractive, of course, just not in a conventional sense. You’re attractive in the same way that, say, your ex-girlfriend is attractive. Perfectly attractive. Just not obviously attractive.

Not hot.

But you feel entitled to a woman who is attractive in obvious ways. You want a woman who’s objectively hot. And you may get one. There are lots of obviously hot women out there with guys who aren’t anywhere near as hot. Helps if the dude’s a billionaire. But a word of warning: If you had to wait until age 23 for a woman to come along who was willing to fuck you and put up with your shit, MRA, the wait for a hot woman who’s willing to fuck you and put up with your shit could be a long one. But you can live in hope.

What you can’t live in, MRA, is an alternate reality where you haven’t been an asshole. You emotionally abused this woman for failing to be something she wasn’t when you met her (and something that you’re not, either): conventionally, objectively, and obviously attractive. You weren’t obligated to stay with her forever just because she was kind enough to fuck you and put up with your shit for a while, of course, and you’re free to follow your dreams and pursue hot women. But you were obligated to treat this woman with kindness and consideration. Instead, you went out of your way to act like an asshole.

Under the circumstances, MRA, I think it’s best to end all contact. It’s nice that you’re willing to keep her in your life in order to get the support you need, all the while providing her with jack shit in return—no, wait. That’s just more assholery. Cut her from your life. It’s the only decent thing to do.

It may be the only decent thing you’ve ever done for her.

I’m an 18-year-old girl in my freshman year at university. I moved into an apartment with three roommates: awesome party girl who I really get along with, my long-term boyfriend, and a new guy who is a year older than me.

Here’s the problem: I don’t have an out-of-this-world libido. My boyfriend doesn’t mind and seems content. But I want to fuck the new guy’s brains out all the time. I don’t understand! I love my boyfriend and I find him attractive, and this other guy is not my type in any way. I am NOT going to cheat on my boyfriend, but I don’t know what to do!

Feelings Are Not Technically Alright Sometimes, Y’know?

First potential explanation: Like most 18-year-olds, you don’t know your hole from an ass in the ground. Part of dating, at your age, is discovering what works for you, who works for you, and what you want. Sometimes what you think you want isn’t what you actually want. So it’s possible that your long-term boyfriend is a nice guy, a good guy, and an attractive guy. But he’s not the kind of nice, good, attractive guy who turns you on. So your libido may be just fine, FANTASY, it’s just that you have yet to date a guy who cranks your libido into gear. In other words: This guy might indeed be your type. You just don’t know it yet.

Second potential explanation: Women tend to be attracted to one type of guy when they’re not ovulating (nicer guys: good parents and helpful partners) and a different type of guy when they are ovulating (rougher guys: lousy parents and worse partners). Lots of women in long-term, stable relationships with nice guys enjoy manly-man-eye-candy when they’re ovulating and then fuck their nice guy’s brains out. But you’re going to complicate your life considerably if you live with both types, i.e., the nice guy you want to marry and the masculine-type guy whose brains you want to fuck out when you’re shitting eggs.

What to do? Well, if it’s explanation number one, dump your boyfriend and date your roommate. If it’s explanation number two, ogle your roommate and fuck your boyfriend.

A gay couple, friends of mine, just announced their wedding this coming summer in Vancouver. They’ve broken up and reunited countless times over the last 10 years; they fight and cheat on each other. Separately they’re wonderful people, but together they’re a fucking nightmare. I suspect this will be one of those marriages that will collapse quickly. So it occurs to me: How much social pressure will there be for gay married folks not to get divorced? After all, the homophobes will soon use gay divorce rates as an argument against gay marriage, right?

The Straight Best Man

Wrong.

Half of all opposite-sex marriages end in divorce, TSBM, which makes it pretty easy to deflect arguments about a gay divorce somehow proving that same-sexers aren’t worthy. And divorce—access to the courts to divide up joint property, work out custody arrangements, determine spousal support, etc.—is one of the important rights that comes with marriage.

And did you know that the first same-sex couple to legally wed in Canada wound up divorcing? And that the first same-sex couple to legally marry in the United States also wound up divorcing? No and no, TSBM, because evangelical Christians—those rabid opponents of marriage equality—haven’t made it an issue. And why haven’t they? Oh, probably because the divorce rate among conservative evangelical Christians is higher than the divorce rate among less batshit Christians, nonbelievers, and Americans who live in Massachusetts. The haters don’t want to make divorce an issue because it makes them look bad, not us. As for your friends…

Some people love conflict and drama, and it’s for the best when two drama-seeking conflictophiles pair off and marry each other. It can be hard on friends and family at first, TSBM, but once you realize that a couple is a pair of perfectly matched conflictophiles—both parties are equally awful, neither is being abused, two innocent people were spared when these two fuckers found each other—you don’t have to pretend you give a flying fuck about their drama anymore.

So when asshole Adam goes, “Steve cheated on me!” You go, “He’s cheated on you before, Adam. And it’s only a matter of time before you cheat on him. Again. Now, how about Occupy Wall Street? About fucking time, huh?”

Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.

mail@savagelove.net

250 replies on “Savage Love”

  1. It’s quite a leap from virgin in your 20s to unattractive. I’m 21 and still a virgin, as are a reasonable number of people I know. Some don’t believe in sex before marriage, some aren’t ‘conventionally’ attractive, but there are others, like me (I’m not being oblivious, I’m not smoking hot but I am attractive), who no-one probably would have predicted would still not be getting laid. For me my problem is that I don’t enjoy any of the small talk etc that leads to getting laid, and I send off all the wrong signals.

    And yeah, the last romantic prospect I had I turned down because I didn’t find him a attractive and saw him only as a friend, but for nobody else would you ever suggest they should date someone out of desperation, and I wasn’t going to do it (again). I’m not looking for a model, but someone I could fuck without wanting to think of someone else doesn’t seem too much to ask.

  2. “Shitting eggs” was hilarious!

    Men don’t think with their dicks? Women don’t deal with hormonal fluctuations? Don’t be such a bunch of hipsters. Accept that you’re human, and recognize that being human means having the ability to identify and mitigate all the times when biology and anatomy conspire to overcome reason.

  3. To all of you hating on MRA, I was in a situation very close to his. When I broke up with my first girlfriend she insisted that we “remain friends”, I put that in quotes because to her that meant she would try to get back together with me and cockblock me. It wasn’t till I quit hanging out with her that we both moved on.

    I wonder how many of you would have a different response if MRA was a woman breaking up with her first boyfriend because she wanted to bang hot men?

  4. @158

    If she would have had shitty things to say about his looks and wanted to continue using him as a “pillar of support” while she ran around, keep dangling him, giving him hope while she banged other dudes, the response would have been the same.

    Oh wait. No. It likely would have been far more vitriolic, because the phrase “pillar of support” would have been taken to mean “financial support” and she would have gotten flamed to hell for that.

  5. Come on everyone, Dan is funny amongst other great attributes. He’s a funny guy…the “shitting eggs” comment was meant to be funny.

  6. All of you defenders (mostly male is my guess) of MRA have to realize that considering the information that we HAVE, not just made up to justify his shitty behavior, makes him a an asshole. He admitted it himself. It really just seems that people are defending against something they feel bad about in the past. I would say the same about a woman, in fact there have been recent letters that address bat shit crazy women (not for the exact same reasons, but just as shallow). Nobody deserves to be used and have mind games played on them, like this guy considered, and still may, do. Don’t men always rag on about how women play mind games? Never fun. I guess I don’t see why he can’t just be the self admitted jerk that he said himself! I also don’t see why people are saying to stay with her, she (and he, so he claims), deserve better.

  7. As far as I understand, ovulation is far less like taking a shit and a lot more like popping a zit. So ladies POP eggs every month or so. Or they should.

    But I’ve never seen it happen, only read about it in all my textbooks, so I can’t say for sure.

  9. Ms Emalie – Thank you. Now I won’t lie awake all night with various half-formed theories struggling to piece themselves together.

  10. I agree 162. In the end Dan can only advise based on the information given in the letters and emails.

    Maybe MRA ex is manipulative and horrible, or maybe he was a jerk. And I’ll point that it’s not the ex accusing MRA of behaving it’s MRA himself.

  12. EricaP @92–

    Gangestad, S. W., Garver-Apgar, C. E., Simpson, J. A., & Cousins, A. J. (2007). Changes in women’s mate preferences across the ovulatory cycle. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 92(1), 151-163. doi:10.1037/0022-3514.92.1.151
    .

    There were a few others, but those were focused on Evolutionary Psychology, which is largely pooh poohed around here.

  13. Dear FANTASY:

    Dan’s advice is actually not bad. But if you decide to follow it, please find a new place to live first. Unless of course you enjoy social, emotional, and financial disasters that are beyond Biblically epic.

    Seriously, that’s the kind of shitstorm that took out the dinosaurs.

  14. “Shitting eggs” takes me back to a time before Dan became “Mainstream”. When his awesome sense of humor was what kept me searching out his column week after week. I miss him!!!!

  15. I’m sorry, “Shitting Eggs” is hysterical.

    Sometimes things are funny because they are so ludicrous.

    Dan Savage knows eggs don’t come out of your rectum. It’s a joke.

    Being humorless is one way to keep people far away from feminism.

  16. I also want to add that there is a very common issue among women of this age (especially those with male abandonment in their history) to use sexuality to “make” men love them… They don’t do it consciously or maliciously, but often their libido comes with a sense of power in luring someone to love them. Once the love is there, they quest for the power that getting someone to fall in love with you brings. It becomes addictive.

    I know this happens with men as well, but my specialty is women so I can only speak to that with much confidence.

    She could easily want the new guy simply because he is new, too. Newness makes all sorts of happiness pheromones fire in our brains.

    I’d suggest if she thinks it might be about the power of the “catch”, that she get to the root of her low libido and see if there might be something to it.

    Just a thought.

  17. I agree 154. Letters where on side is pure good and the other pure evil are eyebrow raising to me.

    In this case it’s the author who’s admitting to being pure evil and that throws a bit of wrench into things.

  20. @163 Stiny: I’m assuming you’re a guy if you “only read about it in your textbooks”….in high school? College?

    We women ovulate where we menstruate. And it’s more like we plop eggs rather than pop ’em like zits.

    @175: Santiagojjlr: OMG!!! LOL!!!! I love it!!!

  21. Dan, Dan, Dan – Late blooming isn’t always an indication of hotness (though this guy’s ego did need a kick in the head as it’s obvious he was a self-absorbed ass). Some people just don’t *get* relationships or in touch with their sexuality until they are older—either because of low self esteem, cluelessness, or they are so damn obsessed with college/whatnot. I was nineteen and my reason was being terrified of men (don’t get me started about my fucked up childhood).

    Also, I’ve met some really ugly fugly people who got laid when they were very young and really nice looking folks who were late bloomers. Before I met my husband I hooked up with a male hottie in his early 20s who was a virgin. He wanted a relationship, I was a little older and not interested in relationships so I just asked for NSA sex (which he eventually agreed to).

    Of course it could be because I’m older now that that early virginity loss = hotness lines are more blurred. Upon a Facebook search, I realized some of the hotties from my high school either had bad genetics or lived life hard, and many of the geeky/dorky/weird kids learned good hygiene, social manners, and/or style. 😉

  22. Dan, Dan, Dan – Late blooming isn’t always an indication of hotness (though this guy’s ego did need a kick in the head as it’s obvious he was a self-absorbed ass). Some people just don’t *get* relationships or in touch with their sexuality until they are older—either because of low self esteem, cluelessness, or they are so damn obsessed with college/whatnot. I was nineteen and my reason was being terrified of men (don’t get me started about my fucked up childhood).

    Also, I’ve met some really ugly fugly people who got laid when they were very young and really nice looking folks who were late bloomers. Before I met my husband I hooked up with a male hottie in his early 20s who was a virgin. He wanted a relationship, I was a little older and not interested in relationships so I just asked for NSA sex (which he eventually agreed to).

    Of course it could be because I’m older now that that early virginity loss = hotness lines are more blurred. Upon a Facebook search, I realized some of the hotties from my high school either had bad genetics or lived life hard, and many of the geeky/dorky/weird kids learned good hygiene, social manners, and/or style. 😉

  23. On “shitting eggs”:

    The very discussion here in this thread — pros and cons and mehs — supports, I think, the idea that offensive language does have a role to play.

    The question to me is not whether or not “shitting eggs” is offensive — it clearly can be interpreted, and used, as offensive. The question to me is (are), (a) why did Dan say this? Was he trying to offend?, and (b) can you use it non-offensively?

    Plus the overall question that everybody avoids, why do we need offensive language (so that it keeps forming itself no matter how utterly we destroy/avoid/argue against it?)

    Should Danny change? I’d need to know his intention. (If he’s just being ‘boyishly offensive’, as his choice of often disgusting language — remember “fucker mother”? — shows, then I don’t really think there is a need to change.) Should “shitting eggs” remain as an expression? If you like it and find it funny (and there are good arguments for that), use it; if you don’t (and there are good arguments for that, too), don’t; and let the free market decide.

    What I would do? Since I’m usually a mild-mannered guy who’d blush if he ever had to say in public the kinds of sexual words Mr Savage often writes in his columns, I probably will never say “shitting eggs.” But I won’t mind if others do, and even find it a little funny myself. 🙂

  24. @163 and 176: Actually, Stiny’s kind of correct. Through the miracle of ultrasound (and the difficulties of fertility treatment) I actually have seen myself ovulate, and it’s kind of like squeezing out a clogged pore or an ingrown hair. Each month one of our many many eggs grows in its own tiny pocket until it looks like a giant (relatively speaking) boil on the side of the ovary, and when it’s ready it “pops” out before making its way to the uterus. This happens entirely internally–nothing leaves the body. Some women might feel a brief pain in their abdomen when it happens; others (including me) feel nothing. “Shitting eggs” comes closer to describing menstruation, when our bodies flush out the unused egg and uterine lining, but that’s at the opposite end of the cycle from ovulation.

    I have to say again that I think that Dan’s advice to FANTASY missed the boat. The ovulation theory is IRRELEVANT to her situation, because there is no evidence that her attraction to either guy waxes and wanes with her cycle–she specifically says that she wants to fuck ugly roomie ALL THE TIME, not three days out of the month. And of course if she’s on the pill or other hormonal BC she’s not ovulating anyway, and all bets are off.

  25. Re MRA: I was in a relationship that was nearly perfect in every way except one: The initial attractiveness I felt for her due to common interests and the newness of it all faded over time. After some time I was not sexually attracted to her. Not wanting to be an asshole by dumping an otherwise great woman and hoping perhaps it was just a phase, I stuck with it…for 3 years. Then I did what I should have done years earlier and broke it off, leaving her heartbroken and somewhat bewildered. I was crushed with guilt, but it had to be done.

    “It wasn’t meant to be,” is all I can say about it now and I’ve learned a lot about myself and relationships since then, but there is no way I could have ended the relationship at any point without being an asshole.

    The fact that MRA is being an asshole and *knows* he’s being an asshole indicates he’s not some quite the self-absorbed prick he appears to be at first glance, but that he’s acknowledging his own weakness. He’s not an asshole for wanting an attractive partner; he’s an asshole for not being emotionally committed to the relationship and not letting the g/f go, just as I was.

  26. @168 – that’s the same study linked at 101/102. The scientists assumed women were fertile based on actuarial estimates and self-reported “last menstrual period,” but did not check if the women actually were fertile during the test dates. (See @104 for details).

  27. @121, I missed your links before – sorry!!

    (Request for those not reading on: if anyone can access #6, that study seems the most likely to have some relevant data for us to discuss: http://www.mendeley.com/research/effects…)

    Otherwise, here are my responses:
    #1 is not bad, except that “all women were judged to have an LH surge between three days after and two days before their high fertility session.” Note that the ones who had the LH surge two or three days after their “high fertility session” weren’t in fact fertile during their “high fertility session,” because they were still about five days from ovulation.

    #2 is the same one I debunked @104

    #3 doesn’t test variance across women’s ovulatory cycle so isn’t relevant

    #4 ditto

    #5 ditto

    #6 I can’t access – can anyone get in and report on how they tested for fertility?

    #7 doesn’t test variance across women’s ovulatory cycle so isn’t relevant

    #8 ditto

    #9 is interesting because it was not measuring fertility per se but instead testosterone in saliva. I’m not sure how that correlates with fertility – presumably not perfectly or women would use that as a fertility predictor. In any case, I can’t get access and would be interested if someone can provide me with a description of their methods

    #10 like #2, they just estimated fertility based on women’s self-reporting of their last menstrual period and the length of their cycles. This is not a reliable way of determining fertility, as many children of users of the rhythm method can testify.

    #11 seems to be a summary of other research, rather than new research itself. I can’t access it, and would appreciate it if anyone with access can report about whether it was studying female ovulatory cycles.

    #12 is a wiki page, and obviously not scientific evidence of anything.

    Thanks for playing!

  28. Yeah, while the process of ovulation is hardly delicate or lovely (involving the maturation and subsequent violent RUPTURE through the ovary wall of said egg, leaving a bloody crater behind…”the weaker sex” my ASS!) I too found “shitting” to be a rather harsh decriptive.

    I suppose it comes down to the nature of the PRODUCT of each process (ovulation vs defecation). I would be equally repulsed by the association of shitting and sperm production, FTR.

    And #1 is a dick,
    #2 is too young to be in a monogamous relationship (ovulating or not…I will admit to being extra horny around that time, but usually that means being more interested in ANY man/sex in general),
    and of COURSE the religious Right has no legs to stand on when attacking Gay divorce, but when has that stopped them before?

  29. @156, “someone I could fuck without wanting to think of someone else doesn’t seem too much to ask” – In an ideal universe, that might not be too much to ask. But maybe you’re not wired that way. You may be wired to think about “someone else” (not the person you’re fucking). That may be hot for you, in some deep inescapable way. Just something you might want to consider.

  30. @185: “…Note that the ones who had the LH surge two or three days after their “high fertility session” weren’t in fact fertile during their “high fertility session,” because they were still about five days from ovulation.”

    Sperm can live up to 5 days in the woman’s body (though 2-3 is more typical). Why the so-called “French” or “strict” method of fertility awareness birth control mandates NO unprotected sex prior to confirmed ovulation and death of the 24 hr living egg.

    It is perfectly possible to get pregnant from sex you had DAYS before ovulation. So those women WERE potentially fertile (and at least, if motivated by some evolutionary, reproductive imperative, likely driven to be on the prowl for “Mr. Right”) 😉

  31. @Hunter

    Been there, done that.
    Women generally don’t love creepy old men commenting on their reproductive organs. Your friend probably picked up on that.

  32. @188 I said it wasn’t a bad study. Yeah, maybe these women had a subconscious feeling they might be almost sort of fertile, and so they dressed nicely to impress guys.

    Or, maybe women wear their nicest outfits when they are not close to their period because have more confidence that they will not stain their clothes. Or maybe women feel less bloated close to ovulation, and so they dress nicely to impress other women.

    Nothing about the study proves that they were trying to attract guys in order to have more sex during their fertile period. And even if it did, that wouldn’t prove Dan’s point that women in LTRs go looking for extracurricular sex with someone more studly than their partner. Maybe they dressed nicely to have more sex with their LTR partner.

  33. @125: You hit the nail on the head about the essentialization and overuse of small studies in evopsych.

    I’m a 23-year-old in a long term relationship with a now-20yo woman who had a similar experience to FANTASY’s at around age 18. I was freaked out at first, but we talked about it for awhile, and I remembered that I’d had a similar “slut period” at around that time, as had many people I knew. I told her if she really felt the need to hook up with someone else, or put our relationship on hold and try dating someone else for awhile, I was okay with it–after all, I’m her first boyfriend and the only guy she’s had sex with, so I don’t begrudge her the desire to try something else before she gets all settled. In the end, the desire mostly passed, and it stopped being an issue in our sex life when she stopped feeling guilty about it. When she started thinking about experimenting with girls, we tried a threesome with a friend of hers, and she decided it was fun but not her main interest. Whether we end up married or not, I think we weathered that one pretty well.

    So I’m totally supportive of the advice that breaking up is a serious option to consider, but like kerplank @109, I can say it’s not universally the way to go, and that anyone who thinks they can definitively tell an 18 year old what s/he wants sexually is bulshitting.

    And since everyone seems to be weighing in on “shitting eggs:” I’m on the side of vulgar, but not especially offensive. But then, I only shit sperm. And I agree with the earlier commenter who said it’s much more polite overall than “on the rag” is.

  34. @163 Stiny & @180 nedibes: Thank you for sharing further insight on Stiny’s discussion about ovulation & menstruation. You are both right in that it does actually make sense about “popping out”–at least, regarding the ovaries. It really is more of a plopping for me, personally, however (I guess my zit-zappin’ days are over long over).

    And unfortunately for me, it’s still a mess no matter how you slice the Snickers bar, and consequently I’m reeeeeeeaaaaaaaally looking forward to finally entering menoshit.

  36. @176/192

    I’m the proud owner of a uterus and two ovaries, and I am a medical student. I have never personally witnessed ovulation, though I am told that highly sensitive ultrasound machines can detect it. My Obstetrics and Gynecology rotation did not afford me the opportunity to spend time with a reproductive endocrinologist, so all of the women I saw were either already pregnant or trying not to ovulate or past menoshits (LMAO on that one). I can’t comment personally on ovulation either, since I have a broken pituitary gland and my whole system fails to function.

    According to my textbooks (Andreoli&Carpenter’s CECIL Essentials of Medicine and Lippincott’s Obstetrics and Gynecology 6th edition): Ovulation occurs when the mature oocyte is ejected from the follicle through a rupture in the germinal epithelium of the ovary, along with a couple of milliliters of fluid and an entourage of supporting cells (the zona pellucida). The now-empty follicle is called the corpus hemorrhagicum because it bleeds a bit (this can cause localized irritation of the peritoneum, triggering the transient sharp “mittelschmertz” pain that 1/3 of women experience) before healing into the corpus luteum. The mental image of the fluid, zona cells and egg squirting out just seems so much like a popping zit to me.

  38. Ms Erica @187 – It’s occasionally intriguingly difficult to tell whether your posts are intended as inquiry or advocacy. Very thought-provoking.

  40. Mr Ank – Well, if you’re going to advocate so fiercely for the wider spreading of certain terms, the least you can do, surely, is to give them a trial run in front of Mrs Ank (Apologies if I have confused you with someone else and there is no Mrs Ank). I’d be most interested, for instance, in how she reacted to your redirection of the F word – but it would have to be without advance explanation.

    That was one of those thoughts that I began much more unseriously than I ended. It’s a habit.

  41. @194 Stiny: I’m sorry I misunderstood your post from @163. You had mentioned only reading about it in textbooks; I unfairly assumed you were a male (simply meaning that men don’t menstruate, ovulate, and couldn’t get pregnant even if they wanted to because it won’t ever happen to them biologically without a sex change operation first).

    Thank you for your helpful information—mittelschmertz explains a lot.
    I’m partying hearty when I hit menoshit! I definitely have Messed Up Junk.

  42. @200 Naw, auntie, don’t feel bad and don’t apologize. I really don’t know any more than most people, I just have fancier words for stuff.

    @180, I sure hope your fertility treatments were/will be successful. Undesired infertility is terribly painful and frustrating, perhaps just as much as undesired pregnancy. Good luck and Baby Dust to you. I’m pretty sure I’ll be there myself in a couple of years when I finish school.

  43. Don’t ask a question if you’re just going to get pissed about the answer.

    My age has nothing to do with it. Her age does. So go ahead and surprise me by saying she’s not significantly younger than you. Go ahead now…

  44. I’m a 32 yr old woman,and I think shitting eggs is really funny. seems the women are less offended then the men. that’s pretty sweet of you boys, but it is really fucking funny….

  45. Here’s a dumb question: can anyone approaching menoshit
    have Messed Up Junk from 10 plus years of sexual inactivity?

    @202 mydryasis: I won’t get pissed about your answer.
    I”m a college-educated 47-year-old female U.S. military veteran who, once-upon a time, long ago, and not so far away, got stupidly married, then thankfully divorced, and there’s actually little that really surprises me very much anymore.
    Getting off birth control and dumping an asshole helped.

  46. I thought ‘shitting eggs’ was funny, too. To me, it meant that she was going hormonally nuts while ovulating, that her system was spewing hormones along with egg(s), and that everything was in a state of batshit crazy, leading her to horn after what her system may have detected as an ‘alpha male’ sort, that through eons of ‘evolution’, from which we have never been able to fully free ourselves. I saw it as things going all haywire, just, all over the map. BAH!!!! “I’m horny as fuck, wanting to fuck any male I can reach because my hormones are going nuts, I’m fertile as hell, and I’m shitting eggs all over the damned place!” An over-exaggeration of the mayhem taking place.

  47. @154 If she were the manipulative martyr you’ve imagined, it seems to me that the LW would have at least hinted at it, something like: “We have these endless conversations where she reminds me of how good I have it, and then I feel like shit again.”

    I personally think that it’s cruel to stay with a person who doesn’t do it for you and that it’s emotional immature to turn that lack of attraction into some self-involved melodrama of “Omg, am I an asshole for feeling this way?”

    No, you’re an asshole for focusing on what those feelings say about you rather than acting on them in a way that sets the other person free to find someone who genuinely wants them.

    If he feels “entitled” to “someone hotter” as some bedrock principle, I think he’s probably a dick. But I also think that we’d be better served if we made a distinction between the normal “I’m just not attracted to this person” and the much more shitty “I am attracted to this person but socially ashamed of it because they don’t measure up to some external standard.” The former is regrettable but blameless. The latter is the sign of a loathesome, insecure and conformist coward.

    Lastly, why the hell are we devoting the better part of this thread to a discussion of the comedic merits of two fairly harmless words?

  48. Dan is exactly right about MRA. He still isn’t all that hot. MRA forgot to mention I used to be a stunning single mother of one. He was actually 24 when we met and I was 29. I was stunning till MRA got me pregnant , I had his kid and now I am fat. Even in my fatness, our hot babysitter still tried to make out with me, not MRA. I just did such a good job of convincing him he is hot, cause he was hot to me. Not now that I see him for what he really is, and what he is, is pathetic. He left me with 2 kids, he is actually gay, well, bi, and I wish to all holy hell I could just be rid of his nerdy ass. I’ll be hot again soon, and he will still be an asshole. THAT, is the short story. I was always out of his league and still am.

  49. 143– Let’s give credit where credit is due. Vulture is the one who wrote that great essay in 125. I’d like to hear more from her. I just said I liked it and wished I could express those ideas as well as she does.

  50. WHAT YOU GUYS DON’T KNOW ABOUT THIS DOUCHETARD MR MRA, is that he just had a baby with this woman. Who which by the way is actually very pretty, and very sweet. She has also stood by his side through all of his BS and philandering. Another thing you don’t know is how he controls her and doesn’t want to let her go. I’m not even sure why he’s writing you Dan to be honest. He’s the guy that wants to have his cake and eat it too. I say he needs to get HIS ish together. She was perfectly good enough and pretty enough to give him his first born son, not to mention he was going to adopt her daughter, but now she’s not good enough to stay with? He sounds like a low rent asshole who will never be happy with anything that comes his way. I really wish I could post a a pic of MRA. Id be really interested to see everyones feedback his looks. : ) Just trust me when I say this. He will never do better than the relationship he just threw away like yesterdays garbage. Good luck pal with all your back alley findings. Gross.

    I hate guys like him. They don’t deserve to be with anyone. Especially not someone as great as his “ex.” – Piss off from SL with love

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