I’m a man who recently started seeing a wonderful woman. Like me, she’s divorced. While my ex-wife left me for another man, my girlfriend’s ex-husband was controlling and abusive. Our relationship is the opposite—emotionally, psychologically, and sexually.
Here’s the thing: His abusive behavior is my kink—spanking. In all my past relationships, spanking was light, playful, and consensual; with her ex, it was about pain and humiliation to the point of tears and bruising. She understands that my motivations around spanking are completely different from her ex’s, but she has zero interest in anything approaching fetish play—and that’s fine, because I feel so connected to her that I don’t need my kink indulged to feel fulfilled. But I find myself feeling guilty for having the kink in the first place. The thought of her enduring what she did brings me to tears. How do I get past this?
Lacking A Clever Acronym
If your girlfriend’s ex-husband had manipulated or bullied her into vaginal intercourse—if he had repeatedly and brutally raped her vaginally during their terrible, awful, no good, very bad marriage—would you feel guilty about an interest in consensual, vanilla, missionary, penis-in-vagina intercourse? No. You would hopefully have reacted in a similarly compassionate manner, LACA. You would have been willing to stick to oral, mutual masturbation, and whatever else your new girlfriend was comfortable exploring and capable of enjoying. And you would have looked forward to the day when she felt ready to enjoy sensuous, consensual, and mutually pleasurable vaginal intercourse again. And if that day never arrived, well, then perhaps you would have been willing to forgo vaginal intercourse for the rest of your life to be with her.
But you wouldn’t be sitting there feeling like some sort of monster for being aroused by—and for having enjoyed—consensual, vanilla, missionary, penis-in-vagina intercourse with other women.
Your willingness to drop your harmless kink is evidence that your priorities are in order, LACA, your heart is in the right place, your cowboy hat is white, etc. Any time you start feeling bad about your kink, just remind yourself that consensual kink isn’t abuse for the same reason consensual vaginal intercourse isn’t rape: Because it’s consensual. You can love this woman, LACA, and make this relatively small sacrifice for this woman (spanking ain’t vaginal), without having to shame yourself or retroactively define all your past spanking experiences as abusive.
My boyfriend of five years had a one-night stand with a much younger woman. In some ways, it’s a good thing—we’re having conversations we should have had a long time ago, he’s seeing a therapist to deal with his issues (his idea, not mine), and somehow I know more than ever that I want to be with him (I’ve always been the one in every relationship with one foot out the door). Two questions:
1. I’ve started to worry about looking older, and it’s been devastating to know that not only did he cheat on me, but that he did so with a much younger woman. He assures me he’s attracted to me, but how can I believe that now?
2. The younger woman sent me—and other people in our lives—an explicit, lengthy e-mail detailing everything they did. (I hate to paint this as “bitchez be crazy,” but sometimes bitchez be crazy.) It’s not how I found out, but it certainly hasn’t helped. Ironically, our sex life has only gotten better since I found out exactly what they did—it turns out that we are both far more GGG than the other ever knew. But sometimes we’re in bed, and I’ll flash on something she wrote and the vivid mental images her letter cooked up in my head, and it sears me. Dealing with that pain out of the bedroom has been hard enough. It’s devastating that it’s now with me in the bedroom as well. How can I deal with this?
Salve It, Please
1. LTRs are only possible if we’re willing take “yes” for an answer. He says yes, he loves you, and you will yourself to believe him; he says yes, he’s having sex with you because he’s attracted to you, and you will yourself to believe him; he says he strayed and is sorry and swears he won’t do it again… and you will yourself to believe him. And while the passage of time makes monsters of us all, SIP, it can strengthen a sexual connection even as sex itself becomes less important when weighed against everything else your LTR is or should be about. In the words of singer-songwriter Tim Minchin: “Love is made more powerful by the ongoing drama of shared experience and synergy and symbiotic empathy, or something like that.”
2. Angry cheated partner: “You did what with that person? I would’ve done that with you! And I have kinks and fantasies, too, you know!”
Contrite cheating partner: “I was afraid to ask you to do that! I was afraid you would hate me—wait, you have kinks and fantasies? What are they?”
Conversations like that one are why affairs—if the relationship survives the betrayal—sometimes kick-start a couple’s sex life. With all the kink-and-whatever-else cards on the table, the couple starts going at it like they have nothing to lose—because in that moment when breaking up is on the table, they actually don’t have anything to lose.
As for those troubling mental images: The passage of time is your body’s enemy on the physical-perfection front—and his, too—but it’s your best friend on the searing-mental-images front, SIP. The more time you two spend doing, enjoying, and perfecting X, Y, and Z sex acts, the more X, Y, and Z becomes about you two and your connection. As you take ownership over X, Y, and Z, and over each other again, the mental images will come to you less often, they’ll be less vivid, and gradually they’ll cease. Give it time.
A letter in a recent column was from a guy who’s trying to figure out how to get into gay BDSM. You suggested some advice from a gay BDSM blogger—Ben In Leather Land (tinyurl.com/bensten)—and it was awesome. Do you have any suggestions of similar blogs for women into BDSM?
Looking Lady
Sex writer/blogger/thinker/haver Tristan Taormino, who is publishing a new book about BDSM and kinky sex (The Ultimate Guide to Kink: BDSM, Role Play and the Erotic Edge), recommends fetish icon Midori’s column in SexIs magazine (tinyurl.com/edenmidori) for women who are just beginning to explore kink.
HEY, EVERYBODY: We’re seeking sordid and tragic stories of holiday sex for an upcoming episode of the Savage Lovecast. Ever been caught having sex at Mom and Dad’s over the holidays? Ever put a “For Grandma, from Santa!” card on a wrapped box that contained a sex toy you bought for someone else? Did your older brothers stick your vibrator in the tree before a Christmas party, and you had to leave it there because reaching into the tree to remove it would only attract attention to it? Call and record your story at 206-201-2720! Please keep it under three minutes, if at all possible!
@fakedansavage on Twitter
I love savage!! Happy Holidays!! Prost
Ooo. I don’t like the letter written to the “older” woman thing. Girls can be mean. But nothing wrong with being older.
(FIRST!)
@ LACA – First I applaud and respect you for your willingness to table your kink while you grow in your relationship. I think part of being GGG is understanding that there are limitations due to circumstances beyond your control – the fucker abused him. He’s sick and deserves to be in a deep circle in the bowels of Hell. You and your partner are left to pick up the pieces after a terrible person did terrible shit and that sucks (I know that first hand). I sincerely hope that you and your partner find peace.
You say that you feel so connected to her that you don’t need your kink indulged to feel fulfilled – but i suspect that’s a “for the time being” statement – meaning that you will at some point in the future feel that you may feel you need your kink indulged to feel a complete satisfaction in the sexual aspect of your relationship. Why do I say this? Because your kink is already on the table and known to both of you.
As your desire to engage in your kink ebbs and flows, ALWAYS be open and honest regarding your feelings relative to your desires and the effect it is having (or not having) on your psyche. And always respect your partner’s point of view (I suspect that you already do and always will).
HOWEVER – and it’s a big However – with time passing and tastes changing, there is a possibility that the desire you feel to satisfy your kink will diminish. People’s tastes can and do change. We grow, our bodies change, we produce less testosterone and estrogen, we deal with life changing events, et cetera…
I hope your relationship continues to grow and you find peace, serenity, and happiness with each other
Holy SHIT, Batman! Was LACA’s girlfriend unhappily married to my ex??
Bless you, LACA, for being compassionate! And all the best to you and your GF! I hope it works out.
Hang in there, SIP. Hopefully it doesn’t become a Brad-Jen-Angelina manage-a-trois situation. Time heals.
If LACA’s girlfriend was married for years to a guy who abused her violently in bed, she could probably use some therapy to help her figure out why she stayed so long…
Erica @5:
I usually think you’re pretty awesome, but I have to say, this sounds dangerously like blaming the victim. Many — possibly most — abusers seem very charming and attentive at the beginning, and only reveal their true character gradually, as the relationship becomes increasingly committed. Contrary to popular wisdom, you can’t actually boil a live frog to death by heating the water, but the principle applies here nonetheless. Moreover, abusers tend to be skilled at making their victims feel guilty for “causing” the abuse and/or terrorizing them into a state of learned helplessness.
It’s easy for somebody who’s never been in an abusive relationship (or who’s been in an abusive relationship with an abuser who tipped his/her hand early on) to ask “why did you stay so long?” As I see it, this is roughly the same thing as asking a victim of stalking “why didn’t you get a restraining order?” or asking a victim of bullying “why didn’t you get those kids expelled?” It’s adding insult to injury. It’s a shit cherry on top of a cyanide sundae. It’s both unkind and utterly unhelpful.
I suspect the woman LACA is dating is one of Newt’s exes (or her spirit transformed)
@5 EricaP: I usually consider you spot on, too, but am inclined to agree with echizen_kurage here.
@6: OMG, you NAILED it!! You also described my ex-husband to a T!!
Ted Bundy came on as handsome, charming and attentive, too, before brutally murdering dozens of women and girls in five states across the U.S. Then he finally got caught, tried, convicted and put to death. As a law student, he also knew all the angles–and had the audacity to gloat about being sent to the chair.
Learned helplessness acquired from an abusive relationship is something like returning home from being held a prisoner of war or a combat / PTSD situation, and can take months, years to fully recover from.
Hopefully, LACA is patient enough with his girlfriend (and it sounds like he is) to fully help her over the trauma of a violently abusive marriage from hell.
Spot-on answer to LACA Dan. Your clear-headedness about sex is such a benefit to your readers… I can’t imagine what kind of answer this poor, sweet guy would get from Dear Abbey or Caroline Hax.
@5/6/8
I’m actually with Erica.
Wondering why an adult woman stayed in abusive relationship is not the same as asking a child why they didn’t get bullies expelled.
I actually think that’s a telling analogy, but I’ll skip what I was going to say about that for tldr sake.
Some women are more susceptible to remaining in abusive relationships than others. Some are more inclined to go down the cognitive road that their boyfriends and husbands try to lead them on. That absolutely does not mean it’s their “fault”. Nor is it negative or insulting to imply that a woman may be psychologically vulnerable and could use help. I dislike that implication and I think it helps perpetuate these kinds of cycles, to be honest. The stigma around mental health is so ingrained that people take it as an insult or an affront (insult to injury, you say!) when someone even suggests it. Here’s an example: I work with a lovely, sweet, funny girl named… I’ll say Cat. She’s also extremely bony, scarily so. A while back I was having lunch with another coworker (say Lena) who was saying how some other girl was calling Cat anorexic. As an insult. I had to say “well, it’s obviously bitchy to say it that way, but I think Cat probably is”. Lena was mortified that I would say such a thing. “No, she’s a nice, sweet girl.”
As if that’s incompatible with having a mental illness?
In my opinion, a lot of abusive boyfriends do tip their hands early on, just not in ways that most people are attentive to. That’s really not to your point though.
Someone I love very much (close family member) was sucked into a controlling relationship several years ago, with a parner who cut them off from family, friends, everyone. It’s been years since I last got to see them.
Who do I blame? Who do you think I blame?
But that doesn’t mean I don’t know that the vulnerability was there first.
Sorry to do an AOL here – but people don’t necessarily need therapy after one oppressive, abusive relationship _that ended_. The reasons that people can get sucked into those have been well explored and don’t necessarily have too much to do with the personal characteristics of the victim. People need therapy if there is an ongoing or _repeated pattern_ of oppressive, abuse relationships. I suppose they might get therapy after the first one if they feel vulnerable, but let’s stipulate that LACA is telling the truth and his relationship really is healthy and supportive. Why does she need therapy? It’s not broke, don’t fix it.
@11 name,
Therapy doesn’t come in one shape, size, or flavor. It doesn’t come from one source either (though professionals are trained to deal with the things the rest of us don’t really want to). Simply being able to talk out our frustrations is an example of what could be termed everyday therapy. While not broken, sometimes people need tuneups to be in the best condition possible, and to head off breakdowns before they occur.
Peace.
I had a similar experience – not around kink but simpler things. Even touching was difficult for her. But, we’ve talked a LOT about it. I also had to be ready to stop everything and make sure her guilt for us stopping was eliminated… that it was ok to stop.
We finally got to a place where what we do is just between us…. 95% of the time. One big help was for me to read “Allies in Healing” by Laura Davis. (geared more toward abuse of children). Even the act of trying to understand was appreciated by my partner.
I’d indulge you with your spanking fetish, LACA! As long as we’re on the subject, I too liked to be spanked… Mmm, yeah… I like your style, baby… Wanna? 😉 +~
This is a great article backed up by science about abusive relationships
http://www.lovesciencemedia.com/love-science-me…
S.I.P. seems aware that the connection between her husband and herself had been fraying… What are you going to do if your needs just aren’t being met at home? It’s a bit of a kick in the ego that the broad the husband took up with for a fling was much younger, but can wifey do?
She can begin taking better care of herself: inside and out. Get into shape but *moreover*, be confident! Walk it. Be and carry yourself the way that got your husband to be hot for you in the first place. Marriage needn’t end the romance or the journey.. Why should it? Appreciate what you have, and cherish it.
It goes a long way.. 🙂 ~+~+~+~
@ 15: I used to be in an abusive relationship with my own self… (Not physically abusive, just beating myself up a lot internally)…
At some point in anyone’s life, you learn to just give in and begin attending to what has haunted you your whole life, or has been a source of unresolved stress or something..
I fell in love with the love of my life about a year after I began a therapy regimen. The timing of that happening is not lost on me one bit. Heal yourself and love yourself better, and you may find love is ready to find you, because you’re now better equipped and present to be in love now..
Life is good.
😉
~+~+~+~
Thanks,
Cheers.
@16: Why do you think she’s not taking good care of herself? That is a terrible assumption to make. My husband cheated on me, and I’m in the best shape of my life, working out every day and running several marathons a year. I’m also extremely confident so that’s not the issue. Sometimes cheaters just cheat, even when they have something great at home.
@6 I think everyone could benefit from some therapy with the right professional. Someone not involved in one’s life, who can help one figure out how to achieve one’s goals in life and move on from any negative patterns learned in childhood or after. It helped me a lot.
@8 “Learned helplessness acquired from an abusive relationship is something like returning home from being held a prisoner of war or a combat / PTSD situation, and can take months, years to fully recover from.”
And you don’t think that having someone professional to talk to might be helpful in that recovery process?
@11 She’s not able to explore light spanking at all, and yet her partner has those desires. If she had been raped and couldn’t stand PIV, would people not think she could use some therapy? Why is light kink (a few spanks) different? What if he can’t even squeeze her ass because that reminds her of the abuse?
@18 Yep. Absolutely. So – how are you doing? Are you guys trying to work it out?
@ 18 You’re right: I generalized the situation. If it wasn’t that she wasn’t hot enough, then maybe it was just that they drifted apart some, and needs and attention wandered or something.
True: sometimes cheaters just cheat. I wouldn’t put up with that shit, though. I wouldn’t do it (and, thankfully, haven’t) and I wouldn’t put up with any of that if it happened repeatedly, and for no genuine reason, other than getting a piece of new strange.
Who knows, lalalicious (good name, btw!)? Not all couples are mated, or, connected as well as either one of us would wish to believe.
You do make a point from the wife’s perspective: if (or, your example works here) she’s taking care of herself, is confident and is otherwise doing her part to uphold her end of the happy marriage, then maybe it’s just something the husband needs to figure out: possibly through therapy, if it heads that way. I’d sooner break up with someone and leave rather than to diminish what we shared by cheating.. If you’re not happy, you’re not happy. Figuring out what does make you happy can sometimes be a lifelong task, but it just saddens me when people who were once close and happy begin to fritter away; the connection begins to weather..
S.I.P’s wife sounds awesome. The husband must be an idiot if he’s giving up the steak dinner at home for some beef jerky (no pun intended) from some young skeezer down on the corner (hangin’ with the sluts! ;-D LOL…!!)
Thanks Lalalicious for a good read.
Cheers On.
I bet LACA would also benefit from therapy; he has been through a difficult situation recently (being abandoned by his wife), and is probably psychologically vulnerable as well. Not his fault, not saying that he (or his girlfriend) is damaged goods — just that sometimes life changes like this provide an opportunity to slow down and assess.
“The passage of time is your body’s enemy on the physical-perfection front—and his, too”
Not always, not for everyone. Some of us find graying hair to be very attractive, for example. “Character lines” can make one’s face much more interesting and charismatic. A little extra weight around the midsection is quite erotic for some. “Perfection” is in the eye of the beholder, and does not always mean society’s stereotype of youth and tautness. For some of us, the changes over time can enhance attractivenss and sex appeal. Embrace and celebrate them!
@ 22. Hi Erica. I dig what you write in here, so Thanks. I hope LACA finds peace, too. It’s sometimes a long, wandering path to get to a point where you become brave enough to try therapy. Especially, as you said, when you’ve been so psychologically vulnerable that you can barely function with a minimum of outer armor, you know?
Like attracts like: whether it’s a positive or negative thing. No matter what it is: therapy, a cool new hobby, a new friend 🙂 : if it helps you to outgrow and move on from bad past conditioning, then how cool would that be? Especially when it comes time to have a family with someone you trust, like, love and respect: giving your family the best of what you had growing up but -hopefully- with a minimum of what brought you down and troubled you when you were growing up… Breaking the cycle of any kind of abuse, really.
But then, no one can really help of be of any help to anyone else unless you somehow help yourself first towards health..
Good thread so far. Thanks again, EricaP. Peace.
@ 23. Hi. That’s sweet what you wrote, about what is sexy and what isn’t: the eye of the beholder thing..
I’m 42 right now, and I have light dashes of gray hair around my temple areas. I do dye my hair; I don’t feel like an elder statesman or some matronly type, so I opt to dye my hair.
Wrinkles and lines? I’m pretty fortunate that my skin is decent shape. I drink a lot of water and fluids, so I’m hydrated that way.
Come to think of it, if you can somehow find peace and tolerance each day for the world inside and around you, you may find that you don’t age as quickly, or as roughly.
I actually love being as old as I am now. I still have my wits, my enthusiasm and everything: I just also have time, experience and self-knowledge to enjoy what I have, and appreciate it and work it.
I’m happy to make my partner happy. It makes me happy to be able to and it inspires me to look how I feel: great :-)_. Life could be worse!
🙂
I wish more people had SIP’s mentality.
I hope she and her boyfriend get through this!
@6
I suspect that ericap is less intending to blame the victim, and more intending to say that learned helplessness is something worth talking to a therapist about, which is very true.
Why on earth are you jumping on EricaP for suggesting therapy? That poor woman had a shitty experience that continues to affect her life (and relationships) in a negative way… she was abused into silence for years and could probably use some guidance and support in making THIS relationship as open and healthy as it can be. She’s got a great partner, but that will only take you halfway. The rest is up to her, and she SHOULD be concerned how that abuse changed her automatic reactions and responses. She needs to deprogram herself from survival mode, living with abuse, and while it CAN be done without professional help by some people, that doesn’t make EricaP wrong for suggesting it. We all could use a little help now and again.
@19 regarding @11, because spanking someone, physically hitting them, is an inherently dominating behavior. PIV sex isn’t.
Great Savage Lovecast idea.
@ 27: Hi Midnight Rider. It’s just the pain that someone carries; just learning that it’s ok to want better for yourself even when you barely feel it to believe that you actually want better. I remember days like those.. I think everyone does at some point in their lives.. Sometimes though, it can all be too much, and you start pleading mercy with yourself to figure out a way to live better…
For me, I always a bit angry along with my more despondent, or, depressed phases of my life.. I was angry for knowing congnitively that I shouldn’t feel bad about my lot in life, but, yet I did.. Just wanting to start answering your own questions about yourself, and grow and heal from it. It’s only ever too late when you die.
Any way for someone to express what is going on inside themselves, to let it out, to set it free, I’m ALL for it. Wanting more for yourself after periods of pain and wilderness is to be applauded. It takes guts to admit you could feel better, and then you set out to begin doing so.
Anywhere where the person who is troubled, and/or who opts to go to a therapist; anywhere they can feel safe and not feeling judged: that’s the place to be. Good friends, family… Sometimes outside sources are better. I’ve been there..
I hope it works out for everybody. 🙂 Peace…
🙂
@27: +1 My sister has been in one shitty relationship after another. If you look at each one individually she, the victim, can’t be blamed. However, consider her entire history and one is forced to acknowledge that *sometimes* the victim does bear some responsibility. That’s not to say my sister is at fault, just that she could probably take steps to recognize what pattern of behavior is leading her to make these poor decisions over and over.
@19 EricaP: Everyone’s recovery process is different. Everyone’s definition of therapy is different.
Mainly, the basic point that I am agreeing with made by echizen-kurage is the cycle of an abuser. @6 had that correct. And yes, getting over learned helplessness and knowing that one is deserving of so much better usually takes some time. Excellent therapy for me was in returning to a lost passion of music. Talking to someone can help, but didn’t always work out for me. Plus, therapists can be expensive.
But what works well for me might NOT have the same desirable results for LACA’s girlfriend.
Now that makes sense, doesn’t it?
@32 repete: Excellent point made!!!! I’m still re-evaluating past behavioral patterns from long ago, in hopes that the old mistakes don’t get repeated again.
So far, so good.
@20 Hi Erica – Yes, we are trying to work through our problems and both want to stay together. It’s been 7 months since I found out about the affair, and we have bad days and good days. More good days than bad days as time goes on, so things are improving, although we still have issues to work out – especially involving our sex life, which has been really blah since the affair. It’s frustrating. I was actually thinking about writing into Dan for advice about that…
@21 I think it was just drifting apart in my situation. Sometimes all those things you to do keep yourself attractive for your partner (exercising, being successful at work, etc) actually put distance between you. Not that this justifies cheating, of course it doesn’t. You’re right, it’s a weak move to cheat when you are unhappy in a marriage instead of separating. Believe me, before this I thought no way in hell would I ever put up with cheating. But when it happens to you, and you’re forced to look at yourself and your partner and your relationship under the harsh light of an affair, you might make a different decision. There’s no easy answer. But who knows, I might change my mind tomorrow. 😉
@29 Personally, I’m not persuaded by that distinction. In my experience, a lot of sex involves play around aggression, desire, need, and, yes, dominance. But then I’m kinky, so I may just not understand polite, egalitarian sex.
@33 Yes. Also, trying different styles of therapy can be helpful. For me, cognitive behavioral therapy showed much better results than just talking about my problems. Music worked for you – that’s great. As for cost, insurance will often cover some of the cost, and many therapists offer a sliding scale so they can assist people who are not able otherwise to afford it.
i’d like to add my two cents about the efficacy of therapy, garnered from decades of experience:
1) cbt and dbt–worth it.
2) all other forms of psychotherapy–waste of time and money.
cheers
Ms Erica – Your opening suggestion @19 is the sort of thing that seems to be a can’t-hurt proposition and I’d tend to agree at least with the spirit, but I’ve known people for whom therapy would be counterproductive, sometimes specifically and sometimes in general. Probably the exception, but enough to keep me from agreeing to universality.
As for LACA and his situation – yes, she might, with therapy, reach a point of being able to explore spanking (I think you occasionally tend to a little too much optimism that being able to explore means being able to indulge means being able to develop an equal kink; not sure if that’s happening here, but you can be a bit of a Slippery Slope), which is hardly a guarantee that he’ll be spanking merrily away for all eternity. As he at least presents with willingness to forego this kink, that’s the direction I’d look first (and I am not asking LACA to do something I have not done myself).
I don’t think it will be all champagne and opera, though. So often where one sees guilt there is a guilt-inducer; it’s worth a look even if it’s not a strong suspicion. And then there’s the impression that this is his only kink; how strong is it?
@29,36 — I agree. Our vision of sex tends to be very ‘tender’ and ‘fairy-tale-like’. That is definitely a part of it. But there is more, of course, even in vanilla relationships. (Dan said a few times that people tend to eroticize things they fear — hence BDSM and cuckold fetishes, etc. I don’t entirely agree with it, but I agree enough to make one further question: why do people eroticize the things they fear? Why transfer that to the world of sex? Why not transfer it to some other area, like sports, work/career, etc.? It’s as if sex had some inherent essence that made it easier for us to transfer things like our deepest fears to it…)
@33-36, 19 (and others discussing abusive relationships): one thing one doesn’t hear very often is that, with some frequency, the abuser himself is also being ‘manipulated’ in the process, like the proverbial frog in the water slowly brought to the boiling point. I mean that some abusers (say, first-time ones) are not simply evil people planning to make another person suffer just for the hell of it; they can start out as someone who has a problem or issue or something they don’t want to talk about, but somehow assume others can see and should be helping with; but since they don’t talk about it nobody (including their partners or SOs) is helping or taking care of it. So they (the abusers-to-be) get angry and, say, start making snappy remarks that are misinterpreted or misunderstood or even ignored (since the partners/SOs still don’t know that there’s ‘something’, ‘some issue’ that is not being addressed)… which leads to more anger, which leads to maybe going a little beyond snappy remarks, and then a little more…
In other words, there are some pretty normal (even good) people who get trapped into abusive behavior because there is something they are not dealing well with. If this thing is not brought to the fore and finally delt with adequately, their abusive behavior can escalate into all the areas we know about (including severe physical abuse). And yet in some sense the abuser himself is a victim of something (s/he abuses because s/he suffers, as it were; perhaps more exactly, s/he abuses because s/he’s angry and hurt that his/her suffering is not being noticed). I think this is why, as is often noticed, abuse victims have a higher-than-average chance of turning into abusers themselves.
@28: I never said that seeking therapy is wrong. It has helped me several times throughout my life, especially in coping and healing. Therapy can, indeed, be expensive, however. Some health insurers are picky about which therapists they’ll cover, and they might not always be good fits or be able to provide the kind of assistance for the one seeking therapy.
Please re-read my statement from @33, to EricaP: “Everyone’s recovery process is different. Everyone’s definition of therapy is different….
But what works well for me might NOT have the same desirable results for LACA’s girlfriend.”
One thing that the Savage Love comments community seems to have in common is the idea that we all have a right to pursue our every kink. But sometimes we don’t (if the kink is sex with children); sometimes we can’t (50 ft. woman, unicorns, centaurs, Brad Pitt, etc.). And sometimes, for some reason, we choose not to. LACA has chosen to forgo his kink for admirable reasons. I don’t know that he was looking for advice on how to get his girlfriend to come around to wanting it.
Perhaps the knowledge that he has this kink, yet refrains out of love and respect for her comfort, desires, and abilities, will do her as much good as therapy.
@38 “you occasionally tend to a little too much optimism that being able to explore means being able to indulge means being able to develop an equal kink…a bit of a Slippery Slope”
Granted. Maybe LACA’s relationship isn’t going to last long anyway, and for now, he does seem willing to do without. But in long marriages, I do think people should explore, indulge, and, yes, even try to find pleasure in the other person’s kink. Twenty, thirty, forty years of sex with another person is a lot of time to stick to the same thing that worked at the beginning. I don’t mind your presenting the opposing view, of course 🙂 But all I can do is speak from my particular experience, for whatever that’s worth.
@39 anklosuar: I agree with you on some points, but not all of them.
I survived a bad marriage, but wouldn’t dream of doing to a guy what my ex did to me. But that’s history. That was then this is now. I’m so over my ex it isn’t funny, and what happened to me ten years ago certainly isn’t the next guy’s fault. By the way, I don’t see myself as a victim, either. For one thing, the source of the abuse no longer exists in my life; I’ve moved on.
Although it’s difficult, abusers can also choose to break the vicious cycle holding them and their commonly isolated victims captive.
But anyone–male or female– with abusive behavioral patterns has to WANT to change, just as someone in a bad relationship has to want to leave for something better.
EricaP is exactly, precisely, spot on correct in her first post re: the girlfriend benefiting from some professional guidance to help her understand why she stayed within the marriage as long as she did. There are a few important things to note about this statement:
1. This is not about the girlfriend working through her demons to get to the point where she can endure a little paddling now and again. That suggestion was not made in the vein of GGG girls will do what it takes to get with the program.
2. Understanding why we make the decisions and choices we do helps us to break free of the cycle of making bad decisions and choices that put us at emotional, psychological, and physical risk.
Santayana said ” those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it”. That is just as applicable to our own personal history as it is to the greater context of world history.
3. No part of Erica’s suggestion aims blame or fault at the girlfriend. To do so would serve to victimiize her further. Instead, Erica’s thoughtful suggestion of seeking a greater understanding of herself serves to empower this woman. Since when do we discourage that?
Thanks Dan for your response to LACA! I’ve had moments of self doubt that my kinks make me less sympathetic to victims of sexual abuse. It’s reassuring to know that other people worry about that as well and that being kinky doesn’t mean you lose your morality.
@ EricaP,
Everyone?
@46
Sure, why not?
You ever hear of a physical?
Sigh. Well if you want to get that nitpicky, you’re technically right. But no one starts therapy without first doing some kind of assessment of what the problem is.
I can’t speak for Erica, but I think everyone could benefit from an assessment meeting, or whatever the term for it is.
I actually thought you would infer what I meant.
@46 – 49, I used to think I didn’t have any issues. No therapy for me, man, I’m totally fine. But with all the stuff going on in my life, I finally went to one, for the first time ever. Oh, wow. I’d been holding on to a lot of issues from childhood. Now, granted, I’ve always been functional. But I think most functional people would benefit from finding a therapist with whom they click, and getting a good airing out of whatever baggage they might be carrying around. If you get your checkup, and it turns out you have no baggage, you’re happy as a clam, then more power to you. I think 9 out of 10 functioning people in the US would find it helpful to learn more about what goes on in their head when they make decisions, pick people to date, procrastinate about calling their mother, etc.
I could get the checkup, turn out that I have no baggage, but be a lot poorer after paying for it. And that’s assuming that I get a therapist who is completely honest and not trying to convince me that there’s something wrong with me.