Dear Readers: Your faith in my counsel and
willingness to take me into your confidence moves and humbles me. The
seriousness with which I approach this work would normally prevent me
from turning your letters over to a bunch of drunks in a bar. But when
Slog Happy, our monthy happy hour for readers of the Stranger‘s
blog, was held at a bar where I sometimes retire to write my
column—the Roanoke Tavern on 10th—I decided to print out a
few of your letters. Names, e-mail addresses, and identifying details
were removed, and your letters were passed from drunk to drunk, taped
to legal pads.

The American Heritage Dictionary defines “advice” as “an opinion about what could or should be done,”
and opinions, as Saint Paul famously observed, are like assholes:
Everyone’s got one (Esophagans 14:20). Since comments on Slog never
want for opinions (or assholes), it seemed only natural to give the
commenters a crack at this advice bidness.

My wife and I have been
married for eight months, and I love her very much. However, we don’t
have sex much, maybe three times a month. We’ve seen a therapist a few
times, and it hasn’t changed anything. I still love her, but my needs
haven’t been met and I’m frustrated. Due to my frustration, I posted an
ad on Craigslist—not to cheat but to just get some erotic
interaction via the web. I only sent a few pictures back and forth.
However, my wife found the e-mails. I apologized and said I never
wanted to be with anyone but her, but that I just wanted to feel like I
was desired. My wife has asked me to move out for a while, which I
did.

Are we effed? I know what I did was
horrible, but I want to make this marriage work. I love her, and I
don’t want this to end it.

Confused In Salt Lake

• “Since you live in Salt Lake, I’m
going to assume that you didn’t have sex with your wife before you got marriaged [hic], and so it turns out that you and your
wife are incompatible. Next time, try the milk before you buy the
cow.”

• “A lot of men make the mistake of
initiating sex by just being like, ‘Hey, let’s fuck.’ Try this: Rub her
shoulders, offer to make her a bath, give her a foot massage. Then eat
her out, but don’t ask for anything. Do this for two weeks. Show her
that you want her to enjoy sex. If it doesn’t work, sorry, you’re
fucked.”

• “You have four separate problems that
are now, through the magic of synergy, combined into one big one: Your
wife’s not into sex, you live in Utah, your wife made you move out, and
you’re using Craigslist (what the fuck?). Time for some radical
honesty: Tell her exactly how you feel and what you want. Insist she do
the same. Don’t censor. This will either finish burning your marriage
to the ground or maybe—MAYBE—allow you to start dealing
with each other like adults.”

• “Hey, Mormon Dumbfuck: She asked you
to move out. It’s already over! HELLO?!?”

I have a submissive side. My
first dominant girlfriend would face-sit me for an hour; after she
climaxed, she would ride me until she climaxed multiple times, and only
then would she let me climax. Eventually we were doing cunnilingus
after intercourse, but when she suggested it might be fun to add “more
sauce” to the mix—bring another man into our play, and this other
man’s ejaculate—I dumped her. A similar thing happened in my next
relationship. Do all dominant women think all male submissives are
interested in bisexual behavior and being a cuckold?

There is a BDSM group in Washington, D.C.,
but the cohort for under-35s is tiny (I am under 30), and it’s nothing
but fat women. I don’t want to pay, I work out, I have a salary, and I
eat my lunch every day. I don’t need to be looked after. I am totally
self-reliant, but I nevertheless want to be completely dominated by a
woman. If the right woman came along now, I would marry her and make
her very happy.

Should I be more patient and let her find
me, or should I find ways to put out more openly that I am a
submissive?

Where Are The Monogamous
Dominant
Women?

• “Where are your social skills,
douchebag?”

• “You sound like a dick. Only sex your
way or you dump them? WTF? Try meeting someone you like and slowly
introduce the dom/sub stuff. Right now you are SO demanding with your
fantasies but unwilling to fulfill someone else’s. That’s a dick
move.”

• “When I got to ‘I have a salary and I
eat my lunch,’ I stopped reading.”

• “There is nothing less attractive
than a ‘sub’ screaming, ‘Top me, Mistress—but not if you’re too
fat or too poly or too old or if you actually have fantasies of your
own or if you’re going to order me to do something I don’t want to do.’
That’s why you’re not getting any action, dummy.”

• “You suck. The end.”

My partner and I are in our
mid-20s and have been together since our teens. We have similar
interests and compatible lifestyles. We make an awesome pair.
Unfortunately, we are not sexually compatible. Over time we’ve grown
closer regarding most things, except for sex. I’ve come to realize that
I’m kinky and non-monogamous. My partner is decidedly not kinky, though
she has said that if I slept with others she would NEVER want to know.
That leaves a door slightly open.

I love her and am committed to the
relationship, but I need some kink to be happy, and my outing myself as
kinky has led to a steady deterioration in our vanilla sex life. Is it
fair to put her on notice that I’ll be kinking out as opportunities
arise and deal with the fallout as we go?

Seeking Orderly Solution

• “She said she would ‘never want to
know.’ That is NOT an open door. That’s a double-shielded blast door
with padlocks and a sign on it that says, ‘Don’t even think about it,
motherfucker.'”

• “Putting her ‘on notice’ sounds kind
of ass-holish. Have the big, awful, stomach-clenching talk about your
future. It’s not fair to either of you for you to have to stay
monogamous and be unhappy. You need to figure this out.”

• “Let her know that you are going to
do it if the opportunity arises, but assure her that you’re just
looking to satisfy your kink. Be sure to respect her desire not to
know, but always be ready to divulge if she changes her mind. If you
want the relationship to work, you need to be ‘allowing.'”

• “You’ll be unhappy for a few years if
you leave her, but you’ll be unhappy for the REST OF YOUR LIFE if you
stay.”

• “WTF? Get rid of the shit. I’m not
talking about ‘leaving’ her. She’s likely to have some of your secrets.
KILL HER. Everything you need is at a convenience store: shovel, lime,
rope, large garbage bags, sympathy card for the family.”

Thanks to the Slog commenters who wrote my
column for me this week. And for the record: Murder is wrong, and Slog
Happy takes place on the second Thursday of the month. Check Slog at
thestranger.com/slog for
details.

mail@savagelove.net

170 replies on “Savage Love”

  1. This was hilarious and reminded me of a column called “Pot Psychology” that does the same thing, but when stoned. Just…brilliant. I love advice given by people at their most blunt. Dan, I loved everything about this column, don’t edit any of it, and ignore the stick-up-their-ass haters!

  9. I’m afraid I have to agree with the comments saying this was a pretty dickish thing to do…funny yes, but really not in the spirit of trust that these people have written to you in. Shame on you Dan

  10. What kind of sub doesn’t have ‘the talk’ at before they start playing? Limits should always be discussed first, right a long with safe words and any other expectations. The doms are at fault too, but this guy sounds like such a jerk, that I declare its all on his whinny ass.

  11. Dan,
    I’m a huge fan. But my trust has kind of been shaken. I know you tear into some folks with questions, but most of the time you explain why the question is either selfish, stupid or insensitive. Doing this allows you to ridicule somone who probably needs it, as well as teach them something. Handing this over to drunks in a bar, as you put it, only allows for the ridicule. I’m disapointed.
    Not that it may matter, but I will reconsider asking you for advice in the future if I’m not sure it’s going to be you who could answer. Most of us trust your advice as you have a record of making sence and of providing actual advice. “You suck.” was not advice. I feel bad for the folks who sent in with real problems (at least to them) and got only insults from boozed up assholes.

    Just consider that I may have a point before writing this off.

  12. All ya’ll who are crying about how the murder comment is “wrong” PLEASE! I am sure every single one of you has joked about or laughed about jokes like this when you were also drunk and/or among friends.

    Why is it ok for for stuff like that to be funny when spoken, but OH SO WRONG when printed?

    You can’t seriously beleive there is some bastard out there who is saying to himself “Well since Dan Savage thought it was ok to print then, Hey, Yeah I’m gonna go for it!”

    Get over yourselves and lighten up.

  13. I don’t think it was a dick thing to do, I just think that it was less entertaining read than Dan’s real columns. There really wasn’t anything said by those drunks that I haven’t heard a thousand times in a thousand bars (MORMONS LOL!!!!!!!!!! XD). Shit that’s hilarious when you’re drunk at a bar is usually just lame when you’re sober and reading a column at work. That’s where Dan’s humor is better.

    Still, I think it was worth a shot, everyone. It turned out kinda lame, but it’s a pretty clever idea. I even think he should do it again, but that it would be perfect if he topped it off with his own advice afterwards. Then we get our Salt Lake City jokes, they get their advice, and Dan has a chance to explain to Slog readers (as if they didn’t know) that murder is a BAD thing to do.

  14. 110 – A sub that is not a real sub, more a normal guy with the (not uncommon) fantasy of being “forced” to do things that he wants to do anyway.

    WATMDW doesn’t want to be dominated. He wants to have hot sex with slim pretty chicks in expensive black clothes and live out a knight in shining armour romantic fantasy of love for a woman for whom he’ll do “anything” (as long as it’s what he wantes to do) at the same time.

    And who’s to say that’s a bad thing. He might be a good candidate for a female led marriage (WATMDW – put Loving Female Authority into Google) or a “Real Women Don’t Do Housework” (put it into Google) sort of scene if he can get over himself, but he’s not into giving up his power in a way that will see his sense of self transformed.

    And who’s to say that’s a bad thing.

    He’s just got into the labels of sub and dom because they’re the closest he can come to describing the feelings he has and the fantasies he has and the things he likes looking at on the internet.

    I do think it’s sad that people are so eager to condemn and belittle him though. He has found himself in an uncomfortable place, and the fantasies he has of being “dominated” into doing things he actually really wants to do suggest that he feels ambivalent about sex.

    WATMDW, were you given mixed messages about sex when you were growing up, or made to feel that sex was somehow shameful, or maybe you weren’t allowed any privacy or your personal boundaries were habitually violated by those who were supposed to support and protect you.

    Whatever, you are obviously a person with a high sex drive but I honestly don’t think that domination in the way most people understand it is what you want. I think you want the bossing around simply to give you the permission you feel you need before you can have sex.

    That’s ok. Lots of chicks would be cool with that, but it’s not domination.

  16. Oh man, WATMDW really does suck. I mean, assuming his former Domme suggested rather than insisted about the threesome; after all, he dumped her, not the other way around. But yes, there are sooooooo many “straight” guys out there that would love to bring another guy into the mix for a night like that. She’ll have no problem.

    WATMDW, on the other hand, is an unaware whiny asshole.

    Also: the reasons there are fewer skinny chicks as part of bdsm groups: 1. unlike television, not everyone is super-skinny — non-skinny people can still be awesome in bed; and, 2. women who are closer to the arbitrary parameters of skinny get swarmed but clueless fucktarded (leotarded?) men. So some women stop wanting to go to those things, or bring a few ACTUALLY HOT men with them as human shields from the ridiculous guys who think they deserve a model-type way out of their league out of some bullshit sense of entitlement.

  17. i don’t usually comment on the column but this one was an awesome exception. dan’s advice is great but i really like the drunken peanut gallery!

  18. Now everybody who answered was grilling the guy for not wanting to sleep with a fat woman who wanted another guy to fuck her?

    A lot of guys here seem to be willfully misreading the letter.

    The guy had two, count ’em two, hot chicks willing to fulfill most of his fantasies and were summarily dumped when they suggested they try something different.

    The fat chick comment is in regards to the women whom he won’t settle for, apparently no matter what those women are willing to do for him in bed.

    He deserves the opposite of the curse Dan reserves for people who dump their mildly kinky partners. Those people deserve to get stuck in a relationship with partners into bestiality scat play. This guy deserves to get stuck in a relationship with a woman who will indulge not one of his kinks. That’ll learn this dumbass.

  19. “Where are your social skills, douchebag?” This reply is pretty much the essence of every advice column response I’ve ever read, either here at Savage Love or any other. Excellent.

  21. Sweet. Loved the column, I’d be glad to have one maybe every few slog happys. =) For those complaining that people write to Dan for advice… for crying out loud, how many letters never get answered at all? So these guys got goofy answers. They did actually get answers, which is better than nothing.

    Plus, they get all the extra comments for free!

  22. I think that, whether drunk or sober, 80% of the questions asked of Dan could be automatically answered, “You and person X are not now, and never will be, sexually compatible. Find someone else.”

    Another 10% could be simply answered, “Yes, you are going to have to pay for that.”

    The remaining 10% are what require Dan’s skills, insight and knowlege.

    I love Dan for that last 10% and yes, I wrote this while drunk.

  24. OK, thanks to this post, Seattle has now moved to the top of my “must visit” list, preferably when I can crash a Slog Happy.

    Just fix that little problem with the dick in the bars (as in there’s not enough of it) and I’ll know I’ve found my new favoritist city in the whole world.

  25. Dunno if this will get seen by the LW, but there’s a great book called “The Sex-Starved Marriage” by Michele Weiner Davis. If both he and his wife read it, and then sat down to talk about it, I think they might have a chance…

  26. Dunno if this will get seen by the LW, but there’s a great book called “The Sex-Starved Marriage” by Michele Weiner Davis. If both he and his wife read it, and then sat down to talk about it, I think they might have a chance…

  27. I agree with keshmeshi except for one point. I don’t think this guy deserves to get laid at all. He is obviously an entitled spoiled brat, no women deserves him. I think the only “punishment” right for him is if no women is attracted to him again and the only ones who will offer him some action are really fat gay men.

    Overall, I think this experiment kinda sucked. I think people are writing Dan expecting Dan to answer and this was disrespectful. Yes many of the comments were funny, however that doesn’t justify it.

    Dan, I think you need to answer these people’s letters yourself and if the future you choose to have a bunch of drunks answer letters then let people know in advance. Give them the option to indicate if they want to be part of drunk week. Many people probably will and many people won’t. I doubt you would have difficulties getting all the letters you needed if you had asked. And shouldn’t you be asking BEFORE sharing people’s intimate issues? Wouldn’t that be something you might suggest to others?

  35. Dan, this weeks column is hilarious! Maybe you should try this again in another bar with other funny, opinianated drunks… Maybe you could start a “spin off” column, “Savage Drunks”…

  36. The first LW is an IDIOT!

    I do not understand how anyone can justify seeking outside relations when they are probably the MAIN reason why their partner doesn’t want sex!

  39. let me take a stab at predicting the content of the next issue:

    “i love my monogamy partner but we’re sexually incompatible and it’s destroying my life. everything would be fine if i could live in a way that even vaguely approximated an authentic expression of my sexuality, but if that happened, everyone would die of dehydration from crying all day long. what do i do about the fact that my happiness lies in a direction which trespasses upon my partner’s low self-esteem and abandonment neuroses?”

    i yearn for the day when we don’t give people a free pass to let their anxiety dominate those they claim to love. but in the mean time: relationship advice!

  40. I’m tired of hearing from men whose wives have lost all interest in sex. Am I the only woman whose husband lost all interest in sex after the wedding? In one of the many fights we had over it, he told me I shouldn’t want sex any more. (I was 29 at the time.) He said he married me for companionship. I’m still trying to figure out how he thought we were going to start a family. Fortunately, I DTMF after 4 1/2 years, but I need to make up for lost time. Anyone out there want to swap their cold-as-ice wife for my douchebag ex?

  41. re: Mr. Submissive – I agree with the responses. The writer says he has “a submissive side,” but also seems to have a control freak side, sexually. As a sexy, aggressive woman, I tried the dom/sub scene years ago – nothing extreme. What I found mostly were men who essentially wanted me to command them to do whatever kink they were bent on. My role was to “force” them. When I refused to comply, but make other demands (nothing dangerous or stupid), I was usually turned down, e.g., after several internet conversations with one guy who swore he’d do anything for me, I ordered him to wear a button down shirt and tie and no underwear under his pants on our first meeting. The no underwear thing was fine, but he whined about wearing a tie: “I don’t like wearing a tie.” I reminded him that he swore to do anything for me. He said, “I didn’t mean things like that.” So who’s really in charge.

  42. At once a good column and the worst ever. It only underscores why we need you, Dan, and your wise and well-worded advice. Please never waste our times with what we could get at any old bar. Hell, most of us avoid the bar scene like the plague to avoid people with opinions like the ones voiced here.

    Also, for the record, being a sub doesn’t mean losing the right to negotiate the rules or ever say no, ever.

  43. The person who made the comment about the bath and not just saying “let’s fuck” is so on the money. If my boyfriend did that anymore he would be getting it daily, instead he sticks with the let’s fuck routine and daily it is not. So many men think that women should be ready and willing to please them all day and night but they can’t do a simple thing for us, like say foreplay.

  44. Please never do this again. Your regular column is so much better; I have my own drunk witty friends and acquaintances.

  45. These advice-seekers have legitimate problems and deserve goddamn legitimate counseling, and these people got cheated out of good, wholesome, Savage advice. There are a million assholes out there who don’t have a sex advice column FOR A REASON. Normal people are lame, Dan. I can’t believe you let them ruin this column. “You suck, the end” IS NOT ADVICE. Please do not try this again!

  46. Dan, you know you wrote all these, wishing you could say just these things to the stupidest of Q askers. And who could blame you?

  47. so if “I eat my lunch” is code for “I can take care of myself” what does the line “I go to the lavatory” mean? My digestion is regular so I’m in generally good health? I jack off so I’m sexually charged?

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