I’m a 67-year-old woman,
almost 68, who has been married four times—once widowed (with
three kids in their 40s who’ve turned out pretty well), divorced three
times. I recently met someone online: 48, a wealthy, educated man with
two boys, 12 and 14. He lives the cuckoldt lifestyle and is looking for
a woman to marry who would participate and enjoy this with him. He says
he “craves and needs” this lifestyle, and from what he’s said so far,
the boys have been trained from an early age to also live this
lifestyle and would require that the woman he marries include them in
all ways.
I’ve done some research and think I could be
quite happy being a dominant. However, my concern is that he wants me
to be sexual with the boys. He says that at home they practice familial
nudity. He also wants me to take each one to a hotel on their
respective birthdays (he doesn’t say at what age) and take their
virginities. He has also suggested that, once we are living together,
if I wake up horny I should go to one of the boys’ rooms and “grind my
cunt into his face and fuck the boy.” I think this is excessive and
could traumatize the boys. I don’t know if this type of extreme
behavior is just fantasy for him or if he is serious.
If I like this man after meeting him, I
would consider this lifestyle, but with boundaries where the boys are
concerned. As the dominant, what I say goes, no questions asked (he has
agreed to this in a recent IM), but I think we need to find a
balance.
I’m interested in your thoughts on all of
this. Thank you.
New To Cuckholdting
What do I think? I’m thinking—and
hoping and praying—that this letter is complete bullshit. And I
think I’m gonna go boil my laptop after writing this response. And I
think I’m tempted to forward your e-mail on to the police. And I think
I would do just that if I wasn’t convinced that this man with whom
you’ve been corresponding—assuming you exist,
NTC—is just another creepy pervert furiously beating off in front
of a computer as he spins out his insanely creepy sexual fantasies for
a gullible online audience of one.
But two details lead me to believe that
there could actually be a four-times-married, thrice-divorced,
once-widowed moral bankrupt out there receiving e-mails and IMs from a
man who claims to be into “the cuckoldt lifestyle,” “familial nudity,”
and the sexual abuse of his adolescent children: your age and your
inability to spell “cuckold.” If a creep with child-rape fantasies
wrote this letter, NTC, you wouldn’t be 67 going on 68 with
reservations. You would be 37 at the most with DD breasts, and you
would’ve spelled cuckold correctly. (Unless… sigh… the
creep was into intergenerational sex and lousy spellers on top
of everything else.)
Now: If this man and his children exist,
NTC, he’s abusing his children and they should be removed from his home
immediately. He’s scum, NTC, as is any woman who would for a moment
contemplate shacking up with this piece of shit. Because, again, what
your Interwebs friend describes is not the “cuckoldt lifestyle,” it’s
the rape and systematic sexual abuse of children. A man who is into
cuckolding gets off on his wife having consensual sex with
other adult men, not his children; a woman into cuckolding
gets off on “cheating” on her husband with other adult men, not her
minor stepchildren.
Once again for the record: I don’t think
this guy is for real or that these kids exist. I think some creepy
pervert is sitting in front of a computer furiously rubbing ’em out as
he chats with you. Interacting with someone on the web who believes
that he’s telling the truth—someone who believes that he’s
wealthy, educated, and has two boys at home anxious to be sexually
abused by a woman old enough to be their grandmother—turns him
on. And so he lurks online until he lands someone gullible and morally
bereft enough to buy in.
Okay! Let’s end with a note about standards
and practices here at Savage Love: I typically change identifying
details in a letter—exact ages, number of divorces, number of
children—lest someone inadvertently out themselves to their
family and friends. I didn’t do that in NTC’s case, because I’m praying
to God that—if NTC exists—one of her children sees
this letter and recognizes dear ol’ Mom. And if her kids are reading:
Hey, guys, it’s time to take Mom’s cars keys, credit cards, and
computer away. Dementia has set in, or Mom’s been demented all along.
Either way, she’s a danger to herself and others, and you might want to
stage an intervention before the criminal-
justice system does.
I am in desperate need. I have been
dating a guy for two years. We’re both 25, and we love each other a
lot. He’s sexy as hell (half Asian, quarter Native, quarter
black—he’s divine), we connect, he’s funny, upbeat, and honest.
Unfortunately, we have a recurring fight (once or twice a month), and I
wonder if we will ever resolve this issue. He likes the attention of
other women. The fight goes like this: He will do something borderline
inappropriate with some chick right in front of me (most recently, he
had 30 consecutive drunk-posts on Facebook with some 19-year-old he met
through his roommate), and I will get pissed and hurt. I approach him
calmly and say that it feels disrespectful and I hope that one day we
will come to an agreement on this issue. He swears that it is all in my
head and that I work myself up over nothing. But he KNOWS it hurts my
feelings, and my hurt is made worse because he is disregarding my
feelings. He usually gets mad, says he “didn’t do anything wrong” and
he “can’t talk to me anymore,” and then I won’t hear from him for a day
or so.
I have friends telling me that this is a
deal breaker and that I am being emotionally abused. I don’t know if I
believe that—I think he just needs to work on boundaries. I just
had a “come to Jesus” talk with the boy, and he still feels like he
didn’t cross any lines and refuses to apologize. But to make me feel
guilty, he said he will “never post anything on another girl’s Facebook
page ever again.” That’s not what I wanted. Now my face hurts from
crying, and I want someone sane to tell me which way is up. Whose side
are you on? I would actually be happier if you told me that I was crazy
and controlling, because altering my own attitude is a lot easier than
trying to get through to him.
Pleeeeeease help.
Hurting In Oregon
Ah… a nice, normal problem to cleanse the
palate after the shit sandwich that opens the column this week.
I’m not on anyone’s side in this dispute,
HIO. You sound like an insecure, passive-aggressive guilt tripper, and
the boyfriend sounds like an inconsiderate flirt. You’ve been having
the same fight twice a month for two years. Enough already. If
the sex, the connection, and his race-based divinity don’t compensate
for the flirting, end this relationship. If they do, HIO, stay with
him—but only if you can stop policing his interactions with other
women and stop bitching about the flirting to him, to your friends, and
to me. 
We don’t know enough, but I don’t think HIO’s letter is necessarily DTMFA, but “dump your boyfriend”.
By saying it’s all in her head, yes, that’s kind of asshole-ish, but the rest doesn’t have to be.
I’m very flirty and touchy-feely with my guy friends, but I would never “cheat” on someone I’m dating. I’m clear on my definition of “cheat,” but the guy I’m dating needs to agree.
Some people are uncomfortable with their SO’s spending time alone with another member of the opposite sex. Some are okay with that, but uncomfortable with hugging/cuddling. Some are okay with their SOs making out with other people, as long as there is no sex. And so on.
I think HIO needs to find someone who has similar opinions on what is/isn’t okay. I don’t think we know enough to say that the bf is at fault, just that this isn’t right, and it should have been noticed about 40 fights ago.
HIO, he is doing something he knows will hurt you *right in front of you*. He is not sneaking around, he is doing it AT you. Seriously girl, this guy is enjoying controlling you – he is seeing just how much he can hurt you and you STILL want to be with him.
He is a manipulative, controlling douche, and you give him exactly what he wants.
Yes, he will change, he will get worse. I bet the things he has been doing have been getting worse over time already.
DTMFA.
Yawn. Where’s Dan’s blog?
“And waking someone up with cunt in the face is an offer of sex, not rape.”
@49, are you insane?
Rape = being subjected to sexual actions you did not consent to.
When, exactly, when you wake up with a face full of someone else’s private parts, is there consent?
That first letter sounds like a troll.
That first letter sounds like a troll.
@49
“When people talk about sex, we should assume it’s consensual unless they indicate otherwise.”
Not so much when the sex in question is between children and adults. Sorry dude, but the (hopefully bogus) letter makes it clear that these boys are meant to be sexually abused. You can’t “introduce” your kids to sex by forcing their aged stepmother on them; that constitutes sexual abuse. This is so painfully obvious that I think you have to be a troll, because I don’t think anyone is really so stupid to think this is ok. You mention your own kids– I hope you never have any.
@56: The way I read the letter, the cunt in the face is intended as an offer of sex after the boys have already agreed to this. This is clear because the letter discusses waiting for the boys’ birthdays to have them lose their virginities, so the offer of sex would have to be after this, after which the boys (by that time of legal age) have presumably agreed to this.
@59: The comment in the letter about waiting for the boys’ birthdays makes it clear that the sex is to be legal and consensual. Even if the boys are slightly under the legal age, the sex still appears to be intended to be consensual.
Nowhere in the letter does it mention “forcing” anyone upon anyone. I don’t think forcing sex upon anyone is ok, nor do I see any evidence that the man in question thinks so.
It is not at all obvious to me that the letter talks about abuse; quite the contrary. Different people can have different interpretations of a letter without either being stupid or a troll.
@49
If the proposed situation was that of a 68-year-old man waking up horny in the middle of the night and going to the bedroom of his 12 or 14-year-old stepdaughter to rub his cock in her face until she woke up, would you consider that closer to “an offer for consensual sex”, or rape?
@61: My understanding of the letter is that the woman would wait until after she took their virginity, after they were of age, to rub her cunt in their face, and that she would only do this with their consent.
The situation you describe would only be comparable if the stepdaughter was of age, had already had consensual sex with the man, and was ok with being woken in such a manner. Otherwise, it’s closer to rape. However, there are different concerns with teenage girls than there are with teenage boys.
@J5676
We are talking about a woman that would be (assuming age of consent is 16) 69 and then 72, and their stepmother. This father (if he exists) practices “familial nudity” with the his young sons. He says that he wants a cuckold lifestyle, which would indicate that he wants to know about these sexual encounters. How can you sit there and go “oh, it doesn’t sound too bad, he’s just being a concerned parent, he has trained his 12yo son in sex…I’m sure it’s all perfectly innocent”?
I don’t think people are jumping the gun indicating that this letter is effed up, and this guy sounds like a sick pervert child absuser. Again, this is if he exists, because I really, really, really hope he doesn’t.
@60
What the FUCK is wrong with you?? As for your first idea, NO, this is not clear. This is absolutely NOT CLEAR. Firstly, it is your presumption that the cunt-grinding-on-face thing is wanted by the father to be an offer of (penetrative) sex to the boys. The letter says nothing about this, all it indicates is that he gets off on the idea of his elderly wife grinding her cunt on the faces of his sleeping children – it doesn’t indicate what he might expect comes after that. And why do you think that a boy would have had to lose his virginity before he could be woken up with a step-parent’s genitals being rubbed against him?
“Nowhere in the letter does it mention ‘forcing’ anyone upon anyone.”
This left me speechless. Forgive me for sounding like a broken record, but waking up a child by rubbing your genitals on his or her face is NOT CONSENSUAL SEX. It is forced, and it is sexual abuse.
You have a profoundly chilling idea of the meaning of consent.
You seem to ‘presume’ rather a lot. The most sexually twisted mind would have a hard time making the leaps and filling in the gaps that you do.
And did you think that maybe, yes, a father who thinks about when, how, and with whom to introduce his adolescent sons to the idea of sex is just trying to make their experience safe and informed, but a man who discusses in detail with an internet date how he wants her to participate sexually in their enlightenment of his children – well, that there’s something just a *little*… creepily forward about that? Didja?
@62
NO!!! The situation I described would NOT only be comparable if the stepdaughter was of age, because the letter says nothing about the father indicating that he wanted this to happen only after his wife took his sons virginity!
Oh my God. This exchange is making my skin crawl.
Dan, Dan, please say something to this creepy man (I assume he is a man because I believe a woman would have a more nuanced understanding of consent). I am not going to make any more comments to this person. I am going to take a deep shudder, close down the window and then try to visualise drenching my mind in hand-sanitiser. Bruuughh.
@62
NO!!! The situation I described would NOT only be comparable if the stepdaughter was of age, because the letter says nothing about the father indicating that he wanted this to happen only after his wife took his sons virginity, and furthermore, which birthdays he intended the semi-Oedipal situations to be a present for!
Oh my God. This exchange is making my skin crawl.
Dan, Dan, please say something to this creepy man (I assume he is a man because I believe a woman would have a more nuanced understanding of consent). I am not going to make any more comments to this person. I am going to take a deep shudder, close down the window and then try to visualise drenching my mind in hand-sanitiser. Bruuughh.
Just one last thing: I’m sorry if “I assume that a woman would have a more nuanced idea of consent” offended any men reading this; I did not mean to implicate you all with this fuck-up.
And sorry for the double post. The second one was meant to be the right one.
Oh my goodness: @49 — “When people talk about sex, we should assume it’s consensual unless they indicate otherwise.”
Actually, it is the other way around. We should assume it is not consensual unless someone indicates otherwise. If not, than I can go up to a person that is passed out and fuck them, because hey, it’s consensual unless they indicate otherwise!
Also, this guy is a creep and he “trained his kids” to want a motherly figure to fuck them. This guy also fantasizes about involving his kids in his sexual fantasy … I am going to assume, given the context, that he wouldn’t mind having his kids raped before age of consent.
49 said: “Waking someone up with cunt in the face is an offer of sex, not rape.”
This is just your lack of understanding in what constitutes sexual assault. To commit sexual assault, you only need to violate another person’s sexual integrity. You do not actually need to penetrate anyone in order to be charged with sexual assault. Frotteurism is the most common form of sexual assault, yet all it involves is touching. If shoving your cunt in someone’s face is only an “offer for sex” and is not sexual assault, than I would have had hundreds of horny guys shove their dick in my face at clubs, because apparently they’re allowed to do that. No, no and no … you need consent for something so obviously sexual.
Maybe Dan, myself and others are just old school, but I’m pretty convinced that “training” your kids to want sex with a woman that represents their mother will traumatize and send the kids a wrong message. Also, since when do we ever call sex education “training”? I also think Dan should have forwarded this letter to the police, despite the likelihood that it is fake.
That was a bizarre rant. I never thought I’d have to defend the idea of disallowing adults (stepmothers, at that) from abusing youths. I guess anything can happen over the intarwebs … especially if I am arguing with a troll.
@68:
We are in agreement that rubbing against someone without their consent is sexual assault. Of course you can’t fuck a passed out person without consent. I am not defending abuse.
But, if someone tells you “I am going to have sex with Sue tomorrow” we should assume it was consensual, unless indicated otherwise. That’s what’s going on in the letter.
I don’t know whether the letter was real, or what’s going on in this guy’s head. But the suggestion of waiting for their birthdays suggests waiting for them to be of legal age. (why else would you wait for a birthday?)
And if the boys had consensual sex with this woman when they became of age, and if they were ok with it, then her rubbing her cunt in their face would be an offer of sex and perfectly acceptable. That’s what I meant by my comment.
I would hope that people can discuss and debate the Savage Love letters, and disagree on them, without resorting to calling people trolls or other names.
@68:
We are in agreement that rubbing against someone without their consent is sexual assault. Of course you can’t fuck a passed out person without consent. I am not defending abuse.
But, if someone tells you “I am going to have sex with Sue tomorrow” we should assume it was consensual, unless indicated otherwise. That’s what’s going on in the letter.
I don’t know whether the letter was real, or what’s going on in this guy’s head. But the suggestion of waiting for their birthdays suggests waiting for them to be of legal age. (why else would you wait for a birthday?)
And if the boys had consensual sex with this woman when they became of age, and if they were ok with it, then her rubbing her cunt in their face would be an offer of sex and perfectly acceptable. That’s what I meant by my comment.
I would hope that people can discuss and debate the Savage Love letters, and disagree on them, without resorting to calling people trolls or other names.
@J5676
News Flash, the age of consent is almost always 18. However there is a flexiability with it where a 16 year old (in some states Washington is one, California is 18 or bust) can have sex with someone up to FIVE years older, same goes for 17 year olds. 69 is more then five years older of 16. Furthermore the letter did nothing to indicate that she was waiting until their legal birthday to grind herself into their faces. He said whenever she’s horny. Also, dont you see this as incest anyway? She may not be related by blood to them but legally become their mother by marrying their father and then having sex with her? Can we say ew? I think we all can. Im hoping this letter is a major troll and just in case it wasnt, Dan forwarded the letter off to make sure. Finally, its different for teenage girls then for boys? NO There is NO double standard when it comes to rape. Men can be raped just as easily as Women. Rape is Rape whether men or women, between homo or hetero couples, young or old. ANYTHING.
@J5676 – But, if someone tells you “I am going to have sex with Sue tomorrow” we should assume it was consensual, unless indicated otherwise. That’s what’s going on in the letter.
But in this case, it’s “I am going to have sex with Sue’s 12 year old son tomorrow”. I don’t think we can assume that means a 12 year old is going to have consensual sex with the 68 year old girlfriend of his dad’s.
“And if the boys had consensual sex with this woman when they became of age, and if they were ok with it, then her rubbing her cunt in their face would be an offer of sex and perfectly acceptable.” — So because you consent to have sex with someone previously (this is assuming a 12 year old can consent to have sex with a 68 year old), this means that you can’t be sexually assaulted by that person? This is the SAME argument rapists often use–that slut had sex with me lots of times before, so it doesn’t count!
Well even if the author of letter #1 isn’t a troll, J5676 definitely is.
YUCK!! I’m with kim in Portland (@11)! Please, God, don’t let the letter from NTC be just another shit sandwich!
Child rape, date rape—any kind of rape—is not a joke!
Right as rain as usual, Dan. Kudos again for an awesome column!
YUCK!!! I’m with kim in Portland—let’s hope that NTC’s letter was indeed, a shit sandwich! Rape of any kind is no joke!
Right on as always, Dan! Kudos.
Sorry—the computer was slow. Please disregard the repeated comments.
@71: The letter said she would take the boys’ virginity in a hotel room on their birthday. To take someone’s virginity, you can’t have previously had sex with him. It also said that after she moved in with the family, she could grind her pussy in the boys’ faces and have sex with them. Thus, she would only grind her pussy in their faces after their birthday.
I agree that rape is rape, whether male or female. My comment about it being different with teenage boys than with girls was meant about consensual sex.
By the way, the age of consent is 16 in the majority of states, with some flexibility for people 14-16 with someone only a few years older. That is, someone 16 could have sex with someone 60 in the majority of states (but not all, as you correctly point out). Look up age of consent laws online if you don’t believe me. Dan actually took a question about this in Savage Love at one time.
@72: Of course you can be sexually assaulted by someone you had consensual sex with previously, and I never said otherwise. But if you consent to have someone wake you up with sex, than it’s not an assault. I’ve woken my girlfriend up with sex before, and she has told me beforehand that she’s ok with it. That’s not assault. That’s why I said “IF they were ok with it” in my comment.
12 is too young to have consensual sex (both legally and ethically). But the letter didn’t say that she would have sex with a 12 year old. It said after his birthday. It seems likely this is referring to when he becomes “of age”. Otherwise, why wait until someone’s birthday?
I’m really not trying to be a troll. I’m trying explain my view of the letter clearly and politely. I guess some people are so squicked out and disturbed by the letter that they (a) take the worst possible interpretation and (b) get extremely offended at even discussing it.
This is the most bizarre conversation I’ve ever read. There isn’t even a close second.
All this crap about ages and consent – if anything in that letter is real (which I’m pretty convinced it isn’t), it’s about SONS INVOLVED IN THEIR FATHER’S SEX LIFE! He’s a cuckold. He gets off on his partner having sex with other people. If she fucks his sons, he’s going to get sexual pleasure from the act. A man getting sexual pleasure in any way that involves his sons of any age or with any degree of willingness is illegal, disgusting and guaranteed to get every single person involved more fucked up than they already are.
Funny, my father has never tried to procure sex for me, even when I was a teenager. I’ll have to ask him why that is next time we talk.
And for God’s sake, Dan should definitely inform the cops. Jeezus!
@78: I think you’re right that the suggestion of incest here is what’s causing the biggest reaction, not the question of whether this is consensual or how old the boys will be.
Just curious, would you feel the same way about a mother and a daughter? Say they’re both attractive, adults, consenting, and wanting to have sex with you (separately or together). Or two sisters? There’s a lot of twin sister porn out there.
HIO: Crikey, you guys are just kids. It doesn’t matter how hot or dreamy he is. He’s an ass and he probably won’t change. But you’re acting like a weak, insecure little loser. Stop it now or you’re going to become a weak, insecure, naggy older woman who’s a drag to be around. Walk away. It will hurt at first, but it’s the most effective way to grow some self-respect.
I’m concerned that J5676 is actually the wealthy, educated man in the first letter. Which I hope is fake.
@81: Nope, I’m a poor 25 year old student. And I think the letter is pretty weird. It just doesn’t seem like child abuse to me and I was surprised that Dan read it that way, and then so many commentators read it that way also! I wouldn’t have thought of it like that, though I guess it’s possible.
No, J, I’m very confidently against incest no matter what the combination. Parents shouldn’t involve themselves in their children’s sex lives on any level. They certainly shouldn’t screen potential lovers for their willingness to fuck their kids, or even consider how their children should lose their virginity years ahead of the fact. There’s no way that someone who openly fantasizes about such things – sharing it with women they hope to meet and bed – can have healthy boundaries.
Sisters? I dunno. It’s lower on the creepy factor, I suppose, but I’ve studied family psychology, and I don’t think it’s healthy for any immediate family members to be sexually involved with each other. The level of enmeshment alone would be frightening. There isn’t sister porn that addresses how it would impact the relationship between the sisters after the fact.
No, J, I’m very confidently against incest no matter what the combination. Parents shouldn’t involve themselves in their children’s sex lives on any level. They certainly shouldn’t screen potential lovers for their willingness to fuck their kids, or even consider how their children should lose their virginity years ahead of the fact. There’s no way that someone who openly fantasizes about such things – sharing it with women they hope to meet and bed – can have healthy boundaries.
Sisters? I dunno. It’s lower on the creepy factor, I suppose, but I’ve studied family psychology, and I don’t think it’s healthy for any immediate family members to be sexually involved with each other. The level of enmeshment alone would be frightening. There isn’t sister porn that addresses how it would impact the relationship between the sisters after the fact.
@83: There’s got to be a middle ground between creepy incest fantasies and no involvement with children’s sexuality. At one point fathers would take their sons to brothels for their first time. I don’t think that’s the best way of handling it, but part of a parent’s job is helping their kids grow up and that includes helping their kids develop a healthy sexuality.
Ideally, there’d be some sort of sex education teacher or sex surrogate who could help teenagers through the difficult time of learning about their sexuality; someone who could teach them about sex and relationships consensually and lovingly.
Though there’s something really creepy about the incest/cuckold factor, I liked this letter (at least my charitable interpretation of it) because I liked the idea of a father trying to find someone to teach his kids about sex and introduce them to it. I am not supporting rape or child abuse, or forcing anything on the kids. But I know it would have been helpful for me to have an older woman to get to know me, teach me about sex, and guide me through adolescence.
If we take it all at face value, this man wasn’t teaching his children about sex. He was involving them in his personal sexual fantasy, and suggesting involving them in his sex life with his wife under their roof. There’s a huge, huge difference. Having sex with a wife to cuckold the husband is being involved in the sex life with the couple, not just the wife. Sorry, J, this letter is a great heaping pile of wrong.
I’m all for answering questions and having the “birds and bees” talk, giving advice, buying condoms even, but beyond that, I’d be against it. There’s a point when it’s up to the teenager to embark on their own exploration. I think maneuvering the joys and perils of early sex is one of those things that defines our growth to independence from our parents.
And anyway, I thought the presence of adults was supposed to PREVENT us from having sex. Usually, most of us don’t need much encouragement. More involvement of my parents was the last thing I wanted. Ewww…
@86: Yeah, I know the letter involves the guy being involved it. But I did like the other part of the situation.
What if the guy wasn’t watching or anything? What if he just knew about it, and that’s all, and he got off on the thought of it? Would that bother you less?
I didn’t mean that the parents would be directly involved in my ideal scenario. No, kids don’t want their parents involved, but if their parents found an attractive older girl to be their friend and get to know them and start dating them while teaching them, I doubt many kids would object. They could still maneuver the joys and perils of sex without their parents, just with a little help and guidance.
I think you were a bit insensitive in the second letter. That guy is a total prick if he doesn’t realize what he’s doing is hurting his girlfriend. How could she *not* feel paranoid and insecure? She has no way to know where innocent flirting ends and not-so-innocent cheating begins.
As for the first one, just eeugh, nothing I can say hasn’t been said in these comments already. I hope its fake too, but I’d err on the side of caution and forward it to the police anyway.
Sorry but for the first time in the several years I’ve read your column I feel cheated. The first letter, fake or not (which I believe it is) didn’t even deserve to be printed and the second letter should have been mailed to Dear Abby. Now I have to wait an entire week in hopes of getting a REAL Savage fix!
I’m with the majority on the second letter: her boyfriend is a controlling dirt-bag who doesn’t care about her feelings. I highly doubt flirting is the only place he’s doing this, and it’s only going to get worse. Dump him, yo.
J5676, I hope you’re not in any sort of occupation that brings you in regular contact with other people’s children. You’ve got some sick notions in your head about teens and sex.
@91: Sounds like you didn’t read what I wrote, or misunderstood it. If you read what I wrote carefully, please elaborate.
“The letter is talking about consensual introduction of sex. When I have kids, I’d like to find a way to consensually introduce them to sex as well, when they’re old enough.”
Hello J5676, boundaries? It’s not your place to introduce your children to sex. It’s your place to educate them about it and make sure they know how to protect themselves both physically and emotionally. Then you back the hell off and let them make their own choices. Sex is a very personal thing, and no healthy person wants their dad to have that level of involvement in their sex lives.
BTW, when you speak of your future children, are you just thinking of your sons, or do you plan to find some older man to “introduce” your daughters as well?
Re: NTC… you need to stop actively LOOKING for a new husband, woman! Take up a hobby or take a class that men enjoy and meet REAL men, not the fake shithead with the two boys. How did you get to 68 with that little sense?
I need a shower after that first letter- Bullshit or horrifyingly true, either way, it’s unspeakably icky that such scenarios could be in anyone’s mind and the letter should be forwarded to the authorities. the extremely slim chance that there are two adolescent children at risk is reason enough to take that step.
Bravo to Dan for his answer on this one.
As for letter 2- Puleeeeese.
Silly little girl!
If your partner routinely behaves in ways that you find hurtful, it’s time to cut him loose and seek out a new partner who shares your ideas of what is and is not ok within a relationship.
Without hearing his side, I can’t make any comment about who might be right or wrong, but there does not have to be a “bad guy” for a relationship to simply not work.
OK J, let me just address one of your points. You insist that the whole birthday thing means they intend to wait until the kids are of age. I think you are leaping to conclusions. Perhaps that is what they meant, or perhaps they were just waiting for the next birthday. Birthdays are meant to be special days, you know, it doesn’t necessarily mean their 16th birthday, or whatever. AND even if they wait until the kid is 16, the sex will likely be coerced. If dad wants his little boys to get fucked by granny stepmom, he can probably make it happen. It sounds like all the “training” these kids have received counts as years of sexual abuse, which poisons any further “consent” they give in respect to their role as tools of their father’s sex life. Sorry dude, but it blows my mind that you could read that letter as anything other than criminal and off-the-charts creepy. The letter writer herself wrote because she was concerned about abusing the kids. That’s why I called you a troll earlier, because it’s sort of incomprehensible to me.
Again, I still think/hope the letter is total bullshit.
J5676 – In case you hadn’t noticed, the first letter stated that this guy’s kids have “been trained from an early age to also live this lifestyle”. Meaning that IF the letter is real (I doubt it), the kids were raised in a way that would be considered child abuse in most states, from an early age. They would have been taught that this kind of sexual stuff was normal, acceptable, or unavoidable BEFORE they were old enough to consent. Basically, this guy would have raised his kids to be willing sex slaves to fulfill his own fantasies. It isn’t really qualitatively different from if he had raised his daughters to expect to perform blowjobs on daddy – even if this training somehow never involved the actual, physical act of sex, if you “train” a kid to expect this kind of thing from an early age, true consent would never really be applicable even if you waited until they were of legal age.
Even IF the letter somehow implied that cunt grinding and virginity taking was only to happen in a consensual way, this guy would have been BRAINWASHING HIS KIDS to expect/like/accept this kind of thing. Therefore, it is not really consent. It is abused kids being subjected to further abuse. It also begs the question of how one would “train” one’s kids to expect this kind of thing – any answer would imply abuse, or at the very least, highly inappropriate conduct. But if the kids truly expect this kind of thing, it’s likely that they’ve already been experiencing it. When I read the letter, I assumed that the cunt grinding was a demand for pussy eating (after all, he didn’t say to sit on their cock’s). Daddy probably considers penetrative sex to be losing one’s virginity, so there’s no reason to assume his boy’s wouldn’t be expected to perform in other ways before that, and probably have if they’ve been truly trained to be a part of this guy’s “lifestyle.”
“I liked the idea of a father trying to find someone to teach his kids about sex and introduce them to it.”
Which is why we’re all disturbed by your responses to this letter, almost as much as we’re troubled by the letter itself. Don’t do that. Please never do that.
“Hey, what’s that sound? Oh, it’s just my geriatric wife having sex with my teenage son. God that’s hot. I think I’ll masturbate.”
I’m betting if HIO held back and didn’t nag him JUST ONCE after he pulled the stupid flirting crap, he’d stop doing it. She doesn’t like him disrespecting her, he doesn’t like her telling him what to do.
Since she demonstrably doesn’t really mind this sort of behavior, there’s not much risk in giving my approach a try. She WOULD have to forgo her obvious pleasure in having the pre-fight “adult talk” with him that makes her feel superior.
I’m betting if HIO held back and didn’t nag him JUST ONCE after he pulled the stupid flirting crap, he’d stop doing it. She doesn’t like him disrespecting her, he doesn’t like her telling him what to do.
Since she demonstrably doesn’t really mind this sort of behavior, there’s not much risk in giving my approach a try. She WOULD have to forgo her obvious pleasure in having the pre-fight “adult talk” with him that makes her feel superior.
I’m betting if HIO held back and didn’t nag him JUST ONCE after he pulled the stupid flirting crap, he’d stop doing it. She doesn’t like him disrespecting her, he doesn’t like her telling him what to do.
Since she demonstrably doesn’t really mind this sort of behavior, there’s not much risk in giving my approach a try. She WOULD have to forgo her obvious pleasure in having the pre-fight “adult talk” with him that makes her feel superior.
Sorry folks, the computer kept telling me there was a software error …