I’m a single (mostly) gay guy who is curious about women. A hot bisexual mate is interested in a friends-with-benefits arrangement. However, his girlfriend doesn’t know he’s bisexual, and I’d feel uncomfortable having sex with him behind her back. My mate would like his girlfriend to know about him because he’d really like to have threesomes with her (something I’m up for), but he’s worried about how she’ll react. Personally, I’d be more concerned about how she might react if she found out about his sexuality some other way. That’s one reason why I always err on the side of honesty. However, I’m not exactly unbiased: I’d prefer threesomes to dicks-only sessions. What should I do?
Horny Homo
How about a little honesty mixed with a little dishonesty?
Your mate should offer his girlfriend the boy-girl-boy threesome that all of today’s modern young women fantasize about. (Blame Twilight—why can’t Bella have it all?) If your mate is worried that she’ll react negatively to the suggestion, he can open by telling her that what he’s about to propose was all your idea. She’ll want to know if his gay-but-bi-curious mate—that’s you—is going to want to get into his presumed-to-be-straight pants. Your mate should shrug and say, “Maybe…” and depending on the look on her face when the possibility of Edward-on-Jacob action is raised—disgusted or intrigued?—end with either “…but I don’t think I’m interested in going there” (leaving open the possibility of “getting carried away” and “going there” during the threesome) or “…and I might go there if that would turn you on” (making any boy-on-boy action at the threesome something he did for her).
If the threesome is a success and you two wind up playing with and in front of her, HH, your mate can come to the sudden and shocking realization that he’s bisexual. This will hopefully lead to future threesomes and, perhaps, at some point, her blessing for some boys-only time. If she objects, HH, your mate can blame her for “making” him bisexual—or making him realize it—because he fell on your sword that first time because it was what she wanted.
I’m a woman whose “super-hetero” boyfriend is quite shy and needs to build trust before he can open up to someone. Since I have gained his trust, he has revealed that he fantasizes about m-m-f threesomes. I’ve asked him if he is turned on by the idea of another man’s penis, and he says no, he just wants to see me have sex with another man. Yet when he describes his dirtiest fantasies to me at the peak of arousal, he says he gets off on the idea of double penetration—one penis in my anus, another in my vagina—and wants to feel the other man’s penis bump up against his own, separated by my innards.
Do you think he is bisexual or bi-curious? We intend to enact this fantasy, and I wonder if it could shift the dynamic of our relationship.
Threesome Curious
It can be hard to predict whether a man will have an epiphany during an m-m-f threesome and come to the sudden and shocking realization that he’s bisexual. (Um… does your boyfriend refer to his male friends as “mate,” by any chance? Is he a fan of the Twilight series?) He’s obviously more aroused by male-male contact than he’s capable of admitting when he isn’t about to blow a load, TC. This fantasy of his isn’t about, or isn’t just about, wanting to gangbang a girl with a buddy. Your boyfriend wants to bump penises with another dude—but with your, um, lady “innards” providing the “no homo” absolution.
But I don’t think you need to extract a full confession of bi-curiousness or even heteroflexibility before you realize this fantasy. He may not be in denial about what his desires add up to, TC. He just may want to check his fantasies about male-male contact against the reality of male-male contact before he tells you what he suspects: He’s the tiniest bit bisexual.
I have an uncle who calls me “faggot” whenever he and I are alone. He’s a conservative, straight Mormon. I’m a boy who’s had sexual encounters with guys and girls, and I’m trying to figure out my own sexuality while dealing with all of the other stuff that comes with going off to college, and frankly I don’t need his crap. Do I tell my parents? He’s half right, but what business is it of his?
Uncertain Nephew Craving
Levelheaded Explanation
Your uncle is hitting on you, UNCLE, in his fashion—that is, the fashion of the tormented, self-hating, conservative/religious closet case. If you don’t wanna find yourself standing there with his tongue stuffed in your mouth someday, I would advise you not to spend another moment alone with your asshole uncle. And, yes, tell your parents what he’s been doing. Because, UNCLE, if he ever makes a pass at you and a scene ensues—you scream, you yell, you bite his tongue off and spit it out the window—your uncle is going to insist that you made the pass at him.
I’m a 31-year-old gay man. My boyfriend and I have been together for five years. We have enjoyed a few threesomes with other men, so I assumed I could share a particular fantasy of mine: I’ve never had sex with a woman and I want to.
I am not questioning my sexuality, I’m not “bi,” I have zero desire to date women. But my boyfriend immediately accused me of having issues with my sexuality, and after a two-week fight I dropped it. Fast-forward to just before Christmas: I received a promotion, moved to a new floor, and have my own office now—and one of my new female coworkers has been coming on to me. First problem: She’s married, so that would be crossing a line. Second, we’re coworkers and she has even more to lose than I do.
Is there some other way—I already tried the direct approach—to bring this fantasy up to my boyfriend again, or should I just let it go?
Flirting With Danger
I’m shocked that your boyfriend—a man who’s willing to share his boyfriend’s ass with other men—would react so violently to your curiosity about lady innards. But seeing as the direct approach prompted a two-week-long fight, FWD, I can’t imagine you would have much more success with the indirect approach. (I can’t imagine what the indirect approach would be.)
Since you’re not strictly monogamous and the boyfriend’s not strictly rational about this, FWD, a case could be made for satisfying your lady-innards curiosity on the sly and filing the affair under “what he doesn’t know won’t hurt him.” But I can’t think of a worse set of lady innards to satisfy your curiosity with than this woman’s. You could wind up losing your job and your boyfriend if the affair got ugly and got out.
Wait, FWD, wait. In time, some other gay-outards-curious lady will come along, and perhaps by then your boyfriend will have come around.
for God’s sake stop calling my cunt “innards.”
Awesome as always, Dan!
Excellent advice (as usual), might I suggest FWD consider a professional? She’ll know exactly what he wants and why. Not to mention he’ll not need to worry about any aftermath.
good advice for FWD. The co-worker seems only destined for tragedy.
“lady innards” and “gay outards”?? I’m trying to decide if these are fatally twee or just amusing….I’ll go with amusing
i don’t really understand the answer to letter #1. lie about what you want, why you want it, and blame it on someone else (the gayer man) if it doesn’t go well? i’m not being snarky; i really feel like i missed something here.
@1 Actually TC called HER cunt innards, we don’t know anything about your cunt.
Man… how different would the world be if people could just honestly TALK to each other about important things like sex and sexual fantasies?
But no, fucking puritanism still casts its backward shadow even today, among people who despise puritan/victorian “wholesomeness.”
Please wake me if religion EVER loosens its iron grip on sex.
And yes, I know there was no mention of religion in any questions to Dan, but come on… where does this sexual trepidation come from if not from The Holy Word?
I don’t care what folks above the age of consent do with each other, its a free country.
But what I worry about is a woman finding out she has aids from her supposed monogamous boyfriend. Strait folks get aids from slamming needles in their arms and deception.
Honesty ain’t what it used to be and Dan is showing his bias this time.
I’m sick and exhausted and the first question and answer far exceeds my current reading comprehension. Seems pretty goddamn funny though. Great work as always. “Lady innards”, ha!
Dan, I’m surprised you’d advise HH’s “mate” to blame his girlfriend for his bisexual desires as punishment for her agreement to a m-m-f threesome that he wanted in the first place. You usually advocate *against* guilt tripping one’s partner in favour of honesty. And just because the girlfriend (potentially) has reservations about her man hooking up with another man without her, does it really mean she deserves to be manipulated and lied to?
I think the first answer is shite. I think Mr Bi Man should just fess up and get it over with, with his g/f. If she freaks out, and this dude doesn’t get to get it on with his “mate”, that’s how the cookie crumbles.
And WTF is it with people who get it on with each other – get into a relationship! – and don’t even give a basic run-down of their sexual history. Actually, if I was the chick, I’d be severely tempted to dump his ass for lying by omission (and being queer, I certainly don’t care about the same-sex screwing). I realise it’s harder to come out for bi men, but with attitudes like these, no wonder many bi people grizzle about their “invisibility”.
I can usually appreciate the logic in not always laying 100% out there on the first try, but the answer to the first letter goes over the line in it’s advised dishonesty and shitbaggery.
You have exactly zero information that she’ll react badly to the idea of her boyfriend being bi, and yet you’re advising him to pretend to “discover” bisexuality and then blame her for this if she doesn’t like it! Frankly, if this girl has even half a brain on her she’ll figure out she’s being manipulated pretty quickly and DTMFA, and with good reason.
At the most the guy could pretend to not be 100% bi-identified and, when asked about m-m contact, say that he’s not sure but admit he’s curious. Quite frankly though I think that if the girl is up for a threesome she’s pretty unlikely to be the type of person to freak out about her boyfriend being bi.
Did I miss something in the Mormon uncle letter? Is the uncle making some kind of a pass? It just sounded like homophobia to me.
what the hell is all this crap about being bisexual and that giving one the right to fuck aorund?? if you are in a monogamous relationship there is NO ROOM FOR FUCKING WITH OTHER PEOPLE, even if you are bisexual. JODER, it’s tiring to read this shit over and over again…..
very good advice to the other letters, specially to UNCLE… he should def let the family knwo and avoid the creepy mormom.
Dan, if someone wrote to you after doing exactly what you told HH to do, you’d probably be on his ass in .03 seconds calling him a manipulative little shit, if your previous columns indicate anything. What’s different / acceptable about lying and fobbing off the blame in this particular situation?
12 and 14 say the rest for me.
Also, while I agree with Dan that UNCLE should tell his parents about the harassment, I wouldn’t be as quick to jump to the conclusion that the guy’s uncle wants to bang him. It could just as easily be a case of old-fashioned homophobia.
I usually agree with Dan, but today I found his suggest to HH manipulative and dishonest. I actually asked myself “what?! Is he serious?” while reading. HH’s mate KNOWS he’s bisexual already – at least, according to HH – so, you know, he could just find a girlfriend who’s ok with that? Or give his current girlfriend the opportunity to be ok with it, plus the honesty she deserves. (No really Dan, were you serious? I don’t get it.)
The answer to UNCLE, on the other hand, is spot-on. What a creep. UNCLE should never be in a room alone with that guy, and yeah, he should tell his parents ASAP.
agh – “suggestion for”, not “suggest to”.
Hey Dan the man – how are things in your life? The last time you went against your admirable code of honesty the way you did in the answers to questions 1 & 2, you were having a rough time in the “real world.” Love you. Be well.
I found the penis bumping part of DP to be a huge turn off (and I’m bi so it isn’t a homophobic thing). Honestly, it’s going to take a lot of time, if ever, for Mr. Shy Guy to admit being curious and/or do something about it. If she really wants to push him, she’s going to have to set up the three way.
Also, #1, that was a great way to start off the comments.
I always thought Dan Savage was a proponent of sexual honesty. I guess I was wrong since he’s sanctioning lying to girlfriend about what is going on and then blaming her for the boyfriend becoming what he already is. That is really quite despicable. Does the bi-boyfriend practice safe same-sex sex? Even if he isn’t promiscuous, he still is, by definition, a CPOS.
I think she may react more strongly to his being a CPOS than his being bi.
Did Dan really write the response to HH? It seems so out of character.
Whilst I’m not keen on people lying there are some fairly good reasons why bi men would do so due to the stereotype that bi men are promiscuous gay loving unreliable kinky sods.
A sizeable proportion of women are immature, ignorant and uncaring saddled with ingrained societal expectations and gender roles. The net effect of this is, if you’re a bi man and prefer women your selection of partners is limited. It may be a bit easier if you’re poly and/or kinky.
I’m sure many would say that hiding your sexuality and not being able to be truly accepted is wrong (and you’d be correct) – but it’s not helping you get laid in the meantime.
Supposedly intelligent and mature women will turn you down flat even though they’ll admit there is no rational reason to do so. In the height of hypocrisy, even some bi women will do the same thing.
It’s yet another case of I’m Alright Jack. Why bother dating a bi man when there are other ‘straight’ men? Why be honest about your sexuality when other idiots can blaze the trail for acceptance and suffer the problems?
In my specific case, there are other factors that cut down the dating pool I’m prepared to approach, but bisexuality is yet another factor that may be considered out of all proportion to its actual material impact on a relationship.
Worst advice ever to HH. Unbelievble.
@15 &@18
The telling thing is that the Mormon uncle only does this when they are alone. If the guy feels his homophobia strongly enough to call his questioning nephew “faggot” and it’s not a prelude for something more intimate, he’d be bigoted enough to see nothing wrong with addressing his nephew thus when not in private.
Since he only calls his nephew “faggot” when they’re alone together, it’s a creepy power game no matter what else.
What Tal@27 said.
And while Dan’s plan for HH would probably work, it does seem out of character for the strongest proponent of open honesty in the advice world.
Just a question for the females out there, wondering what the general opinion is of the DP situation described by Threesome Curious. Is this something that women commonly want? Is you’ve done it, is it intensely pleasurable? Weird? Hot? Painful? Depraved, like something that you’d only do if intixocated and then regret the next day? How much does the implicit “these guys are being gay with each other, however tacitly” dynamic come into play? Obviously, there’s going to be a range of sexual attitudes amongst the readers, I’m just curious what a non-scientific, quick survey would reveal.
While the first paragraph written to HH is fine, the second is terrible. If the threesome is a bust, you’re going to leave this girl thinking that she’s turned her boyfriend bi by taking part in a mmf threesome with him. we all know that’s not how bi guys are created. why would you want to perpetuate such disinformation.
Regarding the M-M-F DP threesome that Threesome Curious describes, I’m wondering what the females in the audience think about it. Is this something repellant to you? Hot? Something you think is depraved, that you’d only do if really intoxicated and then likely regret the day after? If you’ve done it, is it intensely pleasurable? Weird? Painful? Awkward? How much does the whole implicit “these guys are being gay with each other, however tacitly” thing come into play? I understand that there are a lot of different sexual attitudes and experiences out there, just curoius about what a general, unscientific survey might reveal.
@29: It’s my top fantasy. Bar *none.* The implicit gayness is a huge turn-on. Frankly, sometimes I think I’m a gay man trapped in a woman’s body.
Why is it that every time a person writes in with a kink they want to indulge, but which their partner is uncomfortable with, Dan advises cheating? It seems to me that there are two competing goods here, a person’s desire to stay faithful and a person’s desire to indulge the kink. But it is like Dan is totally blind to the goods and benefits associated with being faithful and chooses to focus solely on sexual satisfaction at the expense of a person’s integrity. I have nothing against indulging a kink but if your partner isn’t game you don’t get to just ignore that person’s desires and boundaries by cheating. Having respect for another person means being honest and if that is making achieving your more fundamental desires impossible then having respect for another person means breaking up with them. A person who purports to give advise about love but can’t see the value of respect and integrity is a terrible source for advice!
Why is it that every time a person writes in with a kink they want to indulge, but which their partner is uncomfortable with, Dan advises cheating? It seems to me that there are two competing goods here, a person’s desire to stay faithful and a person’s desire to indulge the kink. But it is like Dan is totally blind to the goods and benefits associated with being faithful and chooses to focus solely on sexual satisfaction at the expense of a person’s integrity. I have nothing against indulging a kink but if your partner isn’t game you don’t get to just ignore that person’s desires and boundaries by cheating. Having respect for another person means being honest and if that is making achieving your more fundamental desires impossible then having respect for another person means breaking up with them. A person who purports to give advise about love but can’t see the value of respect and integrity is a terrible source for advice!
Yes, HH’s mate should come out to his gf, but I’d give it 80% chance she’ll freak. Unfortunately there is a 99% chance she’ll freak if she finds out after the fact, assuming she falls for that cockamame plan.
regarding TC: based on all the DP porn I’ve seen, shy-guy needs to worry more about balls touching. There’s not much room between the pussy & the asshole, & when they start banging it is inevitable their balls will collide. That’s what makes it hot for me 🙂
To each their own, but I’d rather just be one on one with only another person. Just too much potential drama and this that and the other thing. Someone always winds up getting less attention and it becomes a whole thing.. A tasty thing in theory; in reality maybe too much of a good thing.. If all are for it, then so be it. Sure. ;-D
For anyone curious about M-M-F threeways but not interested in actually doing the deed, I recommend the film “The Devil in Miss Jones” starring Georgina Spelvin. The film has an eerie but compelling atmosphere and an ending straight out of Sartre. The lead actress is prolific, flexible and insatiable in her sexual appetite. The threeway scene is entertaining and some may even find it arousing once you get past the “Can you feel him feeling you feeling me feeling him feeling me feeling you feeling him?” dialogue. At least it will give you an idea of the mechanics in store if you decide to go for it.
i can see why women won’t bother dating #25, given that he thinks a “sizeable portion” of them are immature and “saddled with ingrained social expectations”. I’m sick to death of hearing whiny men go on about how terrible “most”women are in th same breath as how they’d otherwise like to date women. with a misogynist attitude like that, its a shocker that mature, intelligent and un-societially saddled women ( you know, the minority) aren’t lining up.
also i always wondered about the balls thing, #35
The advice to HH is hilarious. I can’t help imagining the parts of the bi males played by Lucy and Ethel, and the clueless girlfriend by Ricky. In the end, someone’s gonna have to esplain the whole harebrained scheme.
Just read the first letter, and can’t see why it’s nice, decent, ennobling, humane, or even just okay to manipulate the gf this way. Why not just out with it, honestly? And if she’s not into it, then make the call – take her (heh heh) the way she is, or find someone who’s into what you’re into.
This is the same prob I have with Mr. S. on the sex-witholding spouse/partner. Why is that a “mandate to cheat”? Why isn’t it a mandate to either fix the situation or leave?
If sex is for grownups, why does this column so often advocate acting like middle-schoolers?
Own it, folks. Stop the manipulation and tricks.
@thunda71 well, personally I like the idea, at least in theory. I’ve never tried it but if I were to I’d MUCH prefer it if both men were openly bi. I think m-m action is pretty hot and in the context of a threesome I also like the idea that the experience is shared by everyone, without me having to be the exclusive orifice/pleasure provider.
However asking that here would probably be like asking about the missionary position in the AFA forums; you’re likely to get a pretty skewed sample.
This is one of the hottest columns I’ve read in a while… Well, except for the letter about the uncle, that’s just creepy. But otherwise… Thanks Dan!!
These pieces of advice are kind of…what’s the word…um…silly.
1 & 2 – there’s something slightly offensive about this idea that getting in a MMW threesome will cause a revelation that someone is bi. Sexual orientation is more complicated than that (of course) and people don’t just ‘wake up’ to bisexuality just like they don’t ‘wake up’ to homosexuality. Doing it might even drive a bisexual man further into the closet.
3- this assumption that any person who gay-bashes another is a ‘fag in waiting’ is silly. I don’t know what personal experiences paint this, whether real or fantasy, but most often, just like your parents were wrong when they said “people who bully you are intiminated by you” those people who call you ‘faggot’ do NOT want to sleep with you.
Thinking in a sinister manner, it’s quite evil and sadistic of the uncle. I could do much more psychologcial damage to a person tormenting them in private than lambasting them in public. That’s not self-hate, that’s just devious…
4 – Uhm, no. Whereas I would be all about a threesome with two guys, no one this side of reality would ever convince me to do a 3some involving a woman. No. Sorry. No. No offense to women; love plenty of them. However, I am not sexually stimulated by a woman, and frankly being in a sexual situation with a woman would kill any erection I had.
Sorry, I’ve been in a room with an actual childbirth. Any sexual feelings I might have had for the fairer sex died as that little purple thing pushed its way out of the vagina. *shudders*
Surprised about your answer to #1, Dan! The girlfriend hasn’t displayed any evidence of being sex-negative… why does she deserve to be lied to and guilt tripped?
If you can’t even be honest with your partner about important things like your sexuality, what point is there in continuing the relationship? I expect better from you, Dan.
And as far as the uncle goes, I’ve had an aunt be a bitch to me for years, publicly and in private. She doesn’t want to get on me (which is a relief, as she’s really fat), she’s just a bitch. It’s quite possible that the uncle is just an asshole. I’d still advocate telling the parents, because that’s unacceptable behavior, but now the kid’s going to be even more creeped out and probably jumping at shadows.
re: thunda71, MMF situations (including but not limited to DP) are all I’ve thought about lately whilst masturbating, never tried but it sounds so damn hot! No matter how tentatively, if the guys were ok with exploring each other physically (aside from the obvious ball-slapping), it would make it even hotter!!! But honestly I think the configuration that comes to mind most often involves me wearing a strap-on and one of the guys getting the DP. How I wish I weren’t at work right now, Dan’s column has gotten me all distracted.
@ 38 : Sally
I didn’t say ‘most’ – I said ‘a sizeable proportion’. A not entirely scientific poll I saw recently put the numbers of women rejecting bi men at 40% (obviously, that’s before other criteria for rejecting them than bisexuality are examined).
Try dating where you’re continually rejected for a reason that has no logical basis and not come off as ‘whiny’. I don’t hate women : I merely hate ignorance and immaturity.
Once all the arguments have been rebutted and no counter argument found, all that is left is irrationality.
Offer a better response than them, that doesn’t boil down to a refusal to examine their own prejudices and social upbringing. Arguments that they couldn’t go to bed with a man who has been with another man speak more about their own hangups than the man in question..
As daters, sexual partners and basically as a human being, every adult has the responsibility to examine their own prejudices and work on them. A blanket refusal to examine this is immature and detrimental to society.
I have no problems being rejected for looks, attitudes, income or logical dating requirements. Where it crosses the line is when someone (anyone) rejects another for a reason that has no impact on the potential relationship.
Male bisexuality is only one of these reasons, but is obviously the relevant one in this instance of Savage Love.
@29 – I’ve done it, and it’s *very* hot. What I had was a DP with both guys in the vagina. Yeah, yeah, it was quite a “stretch”, but by that time I was so worked up, everything was very slippery, and with some effort, we got ’em both in. It wasn’t painful, but it was uncomfortable and shocking in the holy-crap-I’m going-to-split-open sense. The excitement overcame the initial discomfort – not just the excitement of having two men inside me, but knowing that their cocks were sliding against each other. They both seemed to find it intensely arousing as well, as neither of them lasted long and both of them usually do, solo. The really sweet part, the part that makes the memory so nice, is that I found out afterward that as the climax built, the two of them had reached their arms around me and were holding on to each other. Awww. One of them was bi and the other was bi-curious. So yeah, not just having the attention and penetration of two men at once, but their shared intimacy was also a big part of the enjoyment for me. Being a conduit for them to have sexual contact that they would not have experienced by themselves (the two of them together, without me) made me feel really good.
I’ve only tried anal-vaginal DP with a cock and a dildo, and it was nice, too, but for me, it seems best if one of the two penetrating objects is significantly smaller than the other.
For years I have been telling my wife that I would like a F-F-M threesome, which is of course the biggest straight male fantasy, and she has always said that maybe, someday, if she could find the right girl, then okay. For years, I have waited patiently, reminding her once and a while how hot it would be to see her with another woman and so on. Last year, she came to me with a scenario of a M-M-F threesome, and how hot she thought it would be, giving me all the same reasons that I gave her for a F-F-M threesome. After much discussion, I told her that I didn’t think it would be such a great idea, mainly because if I could endure being with another man and have it enjoyable, then I wouldn’t need her there. After all, in a homosexual marriage, there is no woman there to say “No” to sex all the time, so it should pretty much be a free-for-all, all the time.
After all, isn’t a threesome where all three people interact sexually? Otherwise it is just two people pleasuring a third, regardless of whether they are male or female, sort of like a small gangbang. HH seems like a threesome, TC seems like a gangbang.
@1- Did you take a journalism class with me at SCCC in 1989? If that’s you I’d like to reconnect with you
@ 49- You missed a great opportunity to cut a deal with your wife: she can have her two men, you can have your two women.
Your “logic” behind all this tells me you’re a not-so-smart, selfish guy