Okay: Female, married 15 years, one young child. No sex with husband over last five years. Have tried therapy, confrontation, lingerie, kink, porn. Seriously, everything. A year and a half ago, I got into a relationship with a married guy, a man who also wasn’t getting any at home. Our agreement is this: no strings, no ties that could hurt our families, have as much fun as we can.
My husband just got diagnosed with cancer. He is dying. Six months. Leaving him is not an option. On some level, I feel guilty about still seeing my lover, but it’s the only outlet I’ve got.
Am I a CPOS?
No Good Acronym
You were doing what you needed to do to stay sane and stay married before your husband’s diagnosis, NGA, and you should continue to do whatever it takes to stay sane and stay married—for your own sake, for your husband’s sake, for your kid’s sake. If seeing your lover helps, I think you should continue to see your lover.
In consideration of the good years you had together and with the knowledge that his undiagnosed illness could have been behind his lack of interest in sex, let go of whatever lingering resentments you have. Do everything you can to make your husband comfortable and make his death “good”—and that includes keeping your affair from him.
Realistically and logistically, NGA, I think you won’t be able to see as much of your lover over the next six months as you have over the last 18. And six months isn’t that long to go without. But if you need to see your lover a few times in order to stay sane and stay married and get through this awful time, then you should see your lover—for your own sake, for your husband’s sake, for your kid’s sake.
I’ve been with my current boyfriend for a little over a year. Since the get-go, he has refused to give me oral sex because he just plain doesn’t like the taste. He says he doesn’t even like looking at my vagina. He does, however, like me to give him oral sex. I’ve tried explaining the importance of oral for me, but he says the act just grosses him out. I’m resenting this situation more and more. So much so that now I really don’t feel like giving him oral sex. Any suggestions on how to improve this situation?
Needing Oral Tonight
Your situation will not improve, NOT, until you find yourself a boyfriend who isn’t a fag.
There may be a few straight boys out there who don’t like to eat pussy, sad to say, but a straight boy who doesn’t even like to look at pussy? Unless there’s something very seriously wrong with your pussy’s appearance—a web of scars from a waxing gone horribly, horribly wrong; the Fox News logo tattooed on your pubic mound; the glowering face a parasitic twin where your clit should be—your boyfriend is a fag, NOT. Do to your boyfriend what my one and only girlfriend should’ve done to me: DTMFA.
Just wanted to share a funny story with you. It’s also, we think, a great example of being GGG. My ladyfriend generally requires more foreplay than I do, but on rare occasions we focus on me exclusively. Two nights ago, after three years together, we figured we’d give a high-school classic a try: I was going to get a handjob. I must’ve been temporarily transported back to my Little League days, because as she was contentedly pumping away, I asked if she could adjust her grip, saying, “Baby, could you choke up a little bit?”
“What,” she said, the sweetest, most GGG look on her face, “you mean, like, cry?”
I really think she would’ve done it, too, if I hadn’t laughed so hard I nearly fell off the bed.
Choked Up In Toronto
Thanks for sharing, CUIT, and now…
WHEREAS you’re writing from Canada, and WHEREAS my Canadian readers patiently endure my rants about conservative American politicians (like last week’s rant about New Hampshire state representative Nancy “Wiggle” Elliott), and WHEREAS my American readers might assume that Canada—where gay marriage is legal, everyone has health care, the boys are hot, and the girls are hotter—doesn’t have any batshit-conservative politicians of its own, BE IT RESOLVED that I will write about Canada’s batshit-conservative politicians every once in a while.
No time like the present: I could write about your batshit-conservative prime minister, Stephen Harper, who’s always proroguing the shit out of your parliament. (I don’t know what proroguing is exactly, but like the shit in French on breakfast-cereal boxes, it sounds filthy.) But a better example of conservative batshittery would be Vic Toews. Canada’s unofficial “Minister of Family Values,” member of parliament Toews—surprise!—doesn’t like the gays because we’re a threat to the family and the institution of marriage. Toews has described gay marriage ceremonies as satanic “Black Masses,” and insisted that adding gays and lesbians to existing Canadian civil rights statutes would bring the “jackboot of fascism [down] on the necks of our people.”
You know where this is going, right?
It turned out that Toews—who once warned that gay marriage could lead to polygamy—was cheating on his wife of 25 years. After getting a much younger woman pregnant, Toews wound up getting divorced. Another marriage destroyed not by gays stomping around in fabulous jackboots, but by yet another straight “Christian” bigot slamming his dick into someone who isn’t his wife.
Toews’s affair became public two years ago, but the scandal didn’t destroy him—he became minister of public safety this January—because the Canadian press sniffed that Toews’s affair and divorce were private. Excuse me, Canadian-
press pansies, but a politician who scares up votes attacking the private lives of others, a politician who insists that other people are out to destroy his marriage, can’t be allowed to hide behind “my private business!” when it turns out that the only threat to the politician’s marriage was the politician’s own greasy cock.
One day, straight folks everywhere are going to realize that anti-gay ravers come in two flavors: assholes who are externalizing their own internal struggles against homosexual desires (Ted Haggard, Larry Craig, Joseph Ratzinger, et al.) and assholes who are attempting to compensate for and/or draw attention away from their own moral shortcomings (David Vitter, Mark Sanford, Vic Toews, et al.).
Finally: Toews is pronounced “taves,” and it seems to me that it should be a word for something nasty. Get on it, Canada.
CONFIDENTIAL TO EVERYONE: If the mother of the 13-year-old boy with the latex-glove fetish had written to me and not Prudie—and she didn’t write to me—I would’ve told her that fetishes aren’t mental illnesses, suggested that her son might be feeling “horribly embarrassed and guilty” about his fetish because HIS MOTHER IS HOUNDING HIM ABOUT IT, and told her that any wife or girlfriend who wouldn’t indulge her son’s kink—once he’s an adult—wouldn’t be worthy of his time or affections. 
Spot on as always, Dan!
I had a boyfriend once who also “was grossed out by oral and didn’t want to look at my ladyparts” as well, because “I was too special for that,” and yes, he turned out to be gayer than gay, but completely ashamed to come out. So now, he continues to lie to his current/future partners with this bullshit excuse.
Nicely done on all, once again. You’re my man, Dan.
I may have a fetish for fabulous jackboots.
So happy that he commented on the Prudie letter as I thought of him the moment I read it.
Toews is just mouthing off. Gay marriage will never be overturned in Canada and he knows it.
I don’t think the press was really sniffing that it was none of their business, I think they just knew that most Canadians wouldn’t give enough of a shit about it to buy a newspaper.
nice! I thought of how your response would would have differed when I read Prudie last week.
Toews is just mouthing off. Gay marriage will never be overturned in Canada and he knows it.
I don’t think the press was really sniffing that it was none of their business, I think they just knew that most Canadians wouldn’t give enough of a shit about it to buy a newspaper.
Shit! My bad.
Vic Toews may be a dipshit, but there are a non-trivial number of people who share his last name, especially in Canada. And we already have enough trouble with epic mispronunciations and teasing in elementary school (“Toes, huh? Do you like to lick toes?” Not that there’s anything wrong with toes or feet, but to a third grader, it can be rather traumatizing). Much as I’d like the correct pronunciation of my last name to go mainstream, I’d rather not add to the future trauma of my children by making it a euphemism.
Oh dear. Toews is also the last name of Jonathan Toews, who just helped the Canadian Olympic hockey team win its best victory ever (sorry), and of Miriam Toews, who wrote the lovely book “A Complicated Kindness”. Surely we could torment the awful Jim Toews somehow without dragging all the other Toews (eses?) into it?
Hahaha…sorry Dan, I’m getting the feeling this one just isn’t going to catch on. Guy’s clearly a wang though.
Toews is also the name of Jonathan Toews, who scored the first goal against the Maricans in the gold-medal hockey game of the 2010 Olympics. Good luck getting Canadians to make his name something dirty.
But I would encourage everybody to pass around the idea that “proroguing Parliament” is as dirty as it sounds. If everybody started to assume the Conservatives were locking the chamber doors and oiling eachother up for hearty Roman goodtimes, it’d be a long time before they tried that shit again.
“The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation.”
-Pierre Trudeau
He was talking about the gays, there. It’s true that it’s private business. Applied consistently. No exceptions.
Gay marriage and gay rights haven’t been a serious issue here in Canada for several years now, and Toews continues to serve and campaign on other issues. The last thing I’m aware of him saying on the matter was in 2006 when he said that the conservative government would not seek to overturn the bill legalizing same-sex marriage. Not sure what more you want.
He is certainly a moral hypocrite, but I doubt anyone in Canada really cares about his personal life, or that of most other politicians for that matter.
Thanks Dan, you’re awesome. Maybe- in deference to all those do-gooding Toews out there, we could make “Vic T” (pronounced Vick-tee) a euphemism for ‘an asshole who is attempting to compensate for and/or draw attention away from their own moral shortcomings’. Perhaps as verb- as in “Man, did you hear what happened to Adam? Frank in Accounting Vic-T’d him using the company email- and then was discovered fucking both his secretary and his babysitter!’
Dear NGA: 25 years ago I was the guy who had an affair with a lady whose husband was terminally ill. Your situation sounds just like the one I was in. From my experience then, I believe Mr. Savage’s advice to you now is perfect. Hope this helps.
I find it fascinating that two countries can be right beside each other and be quite similar on paper…yet very different culturally.
Dan should look up pictures of Jonathan Toews….
Dan should look up pictures of Jonathan Toews….
Vic Toews…..I live in his constituency. I did not vote for him! He campaigned on his ‘family values’ and a good source says that he cheated on his wife for years. This was not the first time by any means. The irony is that this is part of the hyper-religious bible belt and they re-elected him without batting an eye. He can do no wrong because he is conservative. Prorogue: to discontinue the meetings of (a legislative body) without dissolving it. In Canada done for pure political reasons. Yep, it is shit.
To NOT: I love giving and receiving oral. I made this very clear to my bf from the start. 5 years later, and now my husband, HE HASN’T CHANGED one bit. I would say DTFMA and find someone that will do this with and for you. Either that, or be like me and have this need serviced by others.
I disagree somewhat with Dan’s answer to NOT. First, the boyfriend didn’t say he doesn’t like looking at pussy, just at HER pussy. Maybe he likes shaved vaginas with small lips, and she’s got long labia and a big bush. Or vice versa.
When it comes to the visual angle, not all pussies are created equal, just like not all cocks are equally attractive. But sometimes a pussy that doesn’t look great can still feel great. It’s like a guy who has a huge but ugly cock: you may not like the way it looks, but still might love the way it feels.
I love eating pussy, but honestly, looking at pussy isn’t really a turn-on for me, and it can be a turn-off. Of everyone I’ve ever been with, I can only think of one woman whose vagina I found aesthetically pleasing on a visual level. It’s not a big deal, since there’s so much else to take in and enjoy.
Anyway, this guy’s probably just a douche who won’t eat anyone’s pussy. But maybe he’s just not into HER pussy. And we haven’t even mentioned the whole smell/taste angle; who knows if she has vaginosis or something.
Maybe “vic toes” could be toes covered in ejaculate.
Toews: To insert a toe or a group of toes in someone’s anus (or your own for that matter).
I just read Prudie’s response to that meddling mother. To have a lack of understanding of what constitutes a fetish is close-minded and almost laughable. But to call that poor boy a deviant in serious need of psychiatric help(specifically from people who treat sex abusers) is vile.
If the lad didn’t have hangups about his interest in latex, or a pathologically low self image before this advice, surely he will now.
At least many of her readers took her to task for it.
Your readers should too.
Please don’t turn the last name “Toews” into the definition for something nasty because there’s also a professional hockey player with that last name and I’d rather like to be able to watch hockey without snickering every time his name is mentioned.
Yeah, that Prudie column is downright scary. It’s here: http://www.slate.com/id/2245889/
poor kid’s gonna be traumatized.
Vic Toews just escaped a terrible fate thanks to Jonathan Toews.
I don’t think a hockey player would mind having a cool sex thing named after him, though. How about this: a toews shall be an erection which point upward with an angle of over 60°. It shall evoke the hockey blade that bends upward towards the sky, and the youth of this talentuous hockey player.
It shall also, as a splash, evoke Vic Toews’ true virtuous nature, represented by his dick, which aims towards true happiness fulfillment, but which is bound by the limited mind that tried to qualm its voice with a mistress. (You could say his dick is the better part of his soul)
Btw, did you know? In France, they call the hockey stick a “crosse”. In Québec, there is no such name, but the verb “crosser” unambiguously means “to fuck”.
um, what does cpos stand for? and what does choked up mean, other than crying?
ps #12 oiling eachother up for hearty Roman goodtimes
LMAO
and #23 – totally agree with you about NOT, because I like boys but I’d rather look at a girl’s breasts than a guy’s cock, which isn’t that aesthetic to me.
@30: Cheating Piece Of Shit
To “choke up” on a bat is to slide your hands up on the handle to have a quicker swing.
“the glowering face a parasitic twin where your clit should be” — Best line ever! Thank you Dan.
“You were doing what you needed to do to stay sane…”
I am always surprised by how many people believe that not having sex as often as you want — or even not at all– will make you crazy.
Of course this is a sex column written by one of America’s oldest teenagers, so it’s to be expected, I guess…..
According to the ‘Free Dictionary.com TAVE is an acronym for ‘Thor-Agena Vibration Experiments’
I have NO idea what the hell that is but it sounds kinky. Maybe that’s what the Canadian bozo was doing with the other woman?
@NOT: My first real boyfriend in high school was 100% straight and refused to eat pussy, but expected his dick to be sucked every time we got together (sometimes instead of the main event rather than in addition to). I eventually DTMFA. That was high school. Most adult men have grown out of it by a certain age, and either man up and learn to do it, if not to like it, because today’s women won’t tolerate anything less, or find a woman who doesn’t like having her pussy eaten. I have heard of such women, but suspect they are like unicorns. You deserve better. There are thousands of genial, cute straight guys out there who love to eat pussy. Find one. (Or more….)
BTW, ROFL at the Fox News logo tattooed on her pubic mound! I bet that’s exactly what Sarah Palin’s stretched-out vag looks like.
Add me to the list who was hoping against hope that Dan would say something about the poor glove lover.
Sadly, there are plenty of straight guys who still won’t perform oral sex on women. I keep telling them that this hangup makes me not terribly interested in seeing them, if all I want is screwing, I’m pretty bored with it. Of course, all of these guys want oral in return for the oral they’re NOT giving… and as Dan recommends, I always say, “If you don’t, I won’t.”
Hey Dan – Thanks for pointing out that the US doesn’t have exclusivity on assholes in politics. We’ve got LOTS… There’s a current scandal over the fact that our minister of immigration, Jason Kenney, excluded any mention of LBGT rights from the study guide for new immigrants. Kenney’s been at it for a while too, my personal favorite being in 2005 when members of the anti-same-sex-marriage movement bought the rights to the domain http://www.donboudia.ca (Don Boudia is a Liberal MP) and pointed it to an anti-SSM site. Kenney raced to their defense saying that is was Boudia’s fault for not already reserving the domain.
Our own shit-disturbing journalist Rick Mercer (bless him!!) checked into it and guess who else had neglected to register all his domains? So Mercer bought it and pointed http://www.jasonkenney.org to the website for Egale Canada, our national LBGT advocacy group. I’m pretty sure Jason’s head exploded. 🙂 For good giggle here’s Mercer’s blog account of the whole thing: http://rickmercer.blogspot.com/2005/06/j….
I think proroguing Parliament should be an euphemism for someone holding out on you “The first couple of dates have been great, but he’s still proroguing Parliament.”
Hey Dan – Thanks for pointing out that the US doesn’t have exclusivity on assholes in politics. We’ve got LOTS… There’s a current scandal over the fact that our minister of immigration, Jason Kenney, excluded any mention of LBGT rights from the study guide for new immigrants. Kenney’s been at it for a while too, my personal favorite being in 2005 when members of the anti-same-sex-marriage movement bought the rights to the domain http://www.donboudia.ca (Don Boudia is a Liberal MP) and pointed it to an anti-SSM site. Kenney raced to their defense saying that is was Boudia’s fault for not already reserving the domain.
Our own shit-disturbing journalist Rick Mercer (bless him!!) checked into it and guess who else had neglected to register all his domains? So Mercer bought it and pointed http://www.jasonkenney.org to the website for Egale Canada, our national LBGT advocacy group. I’m pretty sure Jason’s head exploded. 🙂 For good giggle here’s Mercer’s blog account of the whole thing: http://rickmercer.blogspot.com/2005/06/j….
I think proroguing Parliament should be an euphemism for someone holding out on you “The first couple of dates have been great, but he’s still proroguing Parliament.”
Opps!! Sorry for the double post everyone, I thought it had missed it.
Personally, I think pro-roguing needs a new definition: deciding the sex is over before you partner has come.
Dan, a comment on the Prudie letter – I’m guessing that the reason this mother wrote to Prudie and not you is because she didn’t want to receive the same sort of reality check you offer to us, your readership, on a regular basis.
Your comments in this case are spot-on, but would not be stomached well by the mother. Unfortunate that parental censorship can be such a detriment to adolescents questioning their sexual identity, but that’s America for you. God bless the red, white, and blue.
Dan Savage – why don’t you fuck yourself and die bitch!
A question for NOT and other girls whose bfs won’t give oral but expect to get it: how often is cunnilingus present in the porn they watch, compared to fellatio? Yeah, didn’t think so.
Prudie’s readers are letting her have it in the Slate comment section for that installment of her column, thank goodness.
@34, affairs aren’t always just about getting laid — but even if they were, five years is a long time to go without.
Poor word choice, Dan on the last part. I don’t think there is such a thing as an anti-gay raver. At least not any of the party kids I knew.
@36 I was in my early 20’s before I learned to eat pussy, and it took me a several more years after that to learn to like it. Several more years later, I finally learned how to do it well. And then I met your unicorn – she thought all forms of oral were “disgusting and degrading” and refused to even consider it. Luckily, she has learned to like it, and now has amazing face-grinding orgasms and sloppy blowjobs. Hooray for GGG!
Awesome column this week!
NOT, even if your boyfriend isn’t gay, the fact that he can’t stand how you smell down there does not bode well for your relationship. Dump this guy, and find someone who thinks you’re delectable.
Vic Toews: that stain in the tighty whities after a juicy fart that is shaped like a silhouette of a family values politician.
Dan, thanks for the comment on the glove-fetishist kid. I’m a junkie for advice columnists, but yours is (naturally) my favorite — when I read that letter, I couldn’t help but think you would have given way better advice to that kid.
I agree with CONCH…look at jonathan toews picture and you’ll want to turn his last name into a dirty word for a different reason. He is a HOTTIE to the fullest 😉
I agree with CONCH…Dan should look at a picture of Jonathan Toews and he’ll want to make it a dirty word for a different reason. He is a HOTTIE to the fullest 😉 Go Hawks!
Hey, NOT, thanks for choosing a sign-off name that makes Dan sound like his advice is ironic and from the mid-nineties.
When I think of the name Toews, I think of the great Canadian writer Mirian Toews, not this idiot. I don’t believe in chastising the press for not caring about who this guy fucks, since his bigotry doesn’t have any actual impact on political policy in Canada. Gay marriage is legal here and it will stay that way, and I’m really proud of that. People have a right to be bigots, and a right to vote for bigots. Thankfully in Canada though, the majority of people aren’t bigots and and don’t vote for them.
@42: perfect definition for “proroguing”. It kind of goes along with the current definition.
RE: Prudie and latex gloves- Dan, you seem to focus only on the fetish and ignore the obsessive compulsive aspect of this kid’s behavior, which is what Prudie was addressing (ie “underlying problem”). She was not knocking the fetish, just the intensity and inability to manage it. If it interferes with your life, you’ve got a problem. Same goes for porn and other outlets that can cause compulsions. You’re doing a disservice by only addressing one side of these issues.
Proud to be a Canadian!
Toews could be the general term for any STI that someone picks up from god-knows-where and then gives to their spouse.
I actually clapped for NOT’s response. DTMFA!
Vic Toews (pronounced TAVES) – change the pronunciation of Vic from VIK to WHIK and you have Wick Taves, which are the minor abrasions on a penis battered by too much unlubricated stroking.
Vic Toews (pronounced TAVES) – change the pronunciation of Vic from VIK to WHIK and you have “Wick Taves,” which are the minor abrasions on a penis battered by too much unlubricated stroking.
The boyfriend who doesn’t like to see his girlfriends pussy reminds of a movie from Spain I saw. Can’t remember the name of it but the worlds most unlucky women picks a string of bad boysfriends. One is trying convince himself he’s not gay…goes down on her…jumps up and says “no one told me it was wet down there”. I remember that scene because being a gay guy myself, I saw it and thought “you know I never really thought about that, but I guess it would be wet down there”. Go ahead mock me…but it just never entered my head it would be wet down there.
@42 That is an awesome alternate definition for proroguing.
Toews – genital warts on the anus. Usage: I was totally skeeved by his Toews.
Re: NGA
This arrangement that worked so well while you were both in marriages will be thrown off-balance. Your emotional needs will be different, whereas this lover may very well still be needing what he needed before. This is something to be aware of.
Victoews (“vik-taves”): ejaculate that has been in and back out of an asshole, male or female.
E.g. “I love it when he fucks my butt in the woods, but later the victoews running down my thigh is a little annoying.” OR “The felching aficionado savored the victoews like nothing else on earth.”
I don’t think this should be entirely pejorative — only to those who find sex to be a bad thing. The rest of us can enjoy the irony.
What’s the big deal about oral sex anyway? I’ll gladly go down, but getting it just doesn’t feel like much beyond being dabbed at with a sponge. Besides, I think more guys are grossed out by it than not, really. I told my last two boyfriends up front that I didn’t want them to, and both considered that good news!
I’m glad you made note of Canada’s double standard in the media. Our Conservative overlords have been hard at work with their incremental policy objectives. Just recently it was discovered our Immigration Minister Jason Kenney pulled gay rights from citizenship guide. We are talking a few sentences:
“Internal documents show an early draft of the guide contained sections noting that homosexuality was decriminalized in 1969; that the Charter of Rights and Freedoms forbids discrimination based on sexual orientation; and that same-sex marriage was legalized nationally in 2005.
But Mr. Kenney, who fought same-sex marriage when it was debated in Parliament, ordered those key sections removed when his office sent its comments to the department last June.”
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/poli…
Very Sad.
#23 sorry but you STILL sound like you might be gay. You have thought far too much about the pros and cons of pussy, whereas men who are not repressed or over-thinkers in that area, can’t get enough of it, and don’t say things about it being unattractive, not smelling good, tasting good! In my humble opinion, you’ve over-thought if for a reason…I think there are levels of hetero and homosexuality (obviously) and whether or not you’re part straight or mostly straight, you’d still be too gay for me to have sex with. Nothing like a man that LOVES IT ALL. They ARE hard to find, but I’m glad women are finally getting fed up with the inequities of oral sex in our society perfectly depicted in porn. (why is it you rarely ever find “pussy eating” category outside of some kind of fetish such as face-sitting?) Men will say that’s because porn is geared for men’s tastes and pleasure…EXACTLY. I think us women who’ve delved into porn have been very surprised by the fact that cunnilingus isn’t more of an interest for your average male. I’m sure you GUYS can figure this out too, and come up with the conclusion that men are getting far more oral then women sadly and women have been quiet for a long time now, until now. I find out AHEAD…perfect remedy. No repressed, hesitant, contemplative or prim boys for me.
Re Dan’s advice to NGA, something else perhaps important for NGA to think about is that during this stressful time her emotional needs will probably change and her husband’s ability to meet them will also change.
She said her lover was her “only outlet”: did this mean sexually or entirely? If her lover is really her only outlet at all, she probably needs to find another one to support her emotionally, because it doesn’t sound like the terms of her affair will allow her to get her emotional needs met there.
Good evening one and all. To a one particular soul in here: my sincerest apologies-sincerely-for my omnipresence in ways you’ve realized these past few days.. I am only writing this here to admit that rest is what’s happening, I wish you well and sorry for any or all of whatever it is you’ve never liked about me, or felt comfortable with enough.. (you know what I mean). As you say, Everything Happens For A Reason. I wish you well as I wish myself well, as well, as, well, I imagine, the rest of you.. Good Luck/Love,T
For NOT, you might want to see an OB/GYN about this-odd odors or off “flavors” could indicate that not all is well.
And NGA will have to be careful with her lover when her husband dies-the whole dynamic will change. He may decide that seeing an unmarried person is too dangerous, he may find dealing with grief too demanding, etc. Then too, hubby may hang on for longer than currently expected. Some cancer patients do make “miraculous” recoveries.
Victave:
the person in a relationship being cheated on.
Victave:
the person in a relationship who is being cheated on.
@71: Your analysis is fascinating, but mainly because it’s so far off that it’s kind of hilarious. Are you seriously claiming that men who say some pussies smell or taste bad are secretly gay? Do you have ANY idea how absurd and insulting that is? (Is a girl who doesn’t want to suck her boyfriend’s perpetually cheesy, unwashed cock a secret lesbian?)
You sound like a girl I once knew who was fixated on the idea that all the men around her were secretly gay. I guess her uncle had left her aunt for a man, and for some reason that put a chip on her shoulder. If a guy said something the least bit complimentary about another man’s physical appearance, boom, he was a “homo who doth protest too much” in her eyes. It was amusing for a while, then it became kind of pathetic.
Anyway, good luck with your quest for the ideal, non-reflective, non-contemplative man. Frankly, I hope you meet him, fall in love, and then get “Brokeback Mountain”-ed for another guy, because it’d teach you a lesson you’re clearly overdue for learning.
I don’t know who started the rumor in our society that all men think women’s genitals look, smell, and taste bad and that oral is a chore. Plenty of men love it (all of it) and they’re sincere (and supposedly a lot of these men are Boston). But a whole generation (or more) of women don’t know this and are insecure about letting a guy go down there.
@78: Eh, I dunno, it’s not too hard to understand, starting with our society’s fucked-up attitude towards sex in general. Plenty of people, going all the way back to the Romans, think giving oral sex is demeaning. Plenty of people don’t have good genital hygiene or health. Plenty of people are selfish and don’t care about giving pleasure, only getting it.
Put all those things together, and there are a lot of men and women out there who match your description. But I don’t think that’s the norm. If anything, the percentage of people in the West who are cool with oral sex, giving and receiving, is probably higher than it’s ever been.
Now hold on one second. Why does a distaste in vagina automatically mean an affinity for penis?
I’m in the same boat as this poor girl’s boyfriend, I can’t stand the sight, taste, or act of it all.
I am not gay, I am even more grossed out by man hair and cock than a vagina. I love the female form: boobs, hips, bush, etc but not the inner parts.
I am particularly squeamish though. I have a visceral reaction when I see blood and flipping through channels and landing on open heart surgeries or what not are traumatic events for me. I get this same visceral feeling in my stomach when I approach a vagina with anything other than my cock.
So I’m malfunctional eh?
This seems to be the same question that was asked on Questionland last month;
http://questionland.thestranger.com/ques…
hmm. as a gay man who once had lots of girlfriends, I ate pussy and enjoyed it. I didn’t even need a doggie bag for later (a la Margaret Cho) but would finish it all in one sitting and sometimes have seconds. Yes, I’m gay. I love the cock and only fall in love with men. Have I ever met a cock I didn’t want to suck? Absolutely! Just because someone does want to put their mouth on your genitals doesn’t necessarily mean that they are gay or straight: it may simply mean they either don’t like to perform oral, or they don’t like your genitals. Just my 2 cents as a big ol fag who used to eat pussy (back in the day).
@80; I think I’ve dated you
Does a man have to love the sight, feel, smell, taste of a woman’s genitals to be straight?
Nope.
Does a woman have a right to expect that HER BOYFRIEND will eat her pussy (at least on occasion)?
Absolutely.
In this case, it’s not about the specific act and his affinity for it as much as it is that he apparently has told her repeatedly that her genitals disgust him.
Even if that is true, if he cares for her at all he ought to be able to fake a little interest (or at least not be grossed out) and occasionally suck it up and suck it to make her happy. This wasn’t a one-night stand; it’s her boyfriend of a year. He should be motivated to want to give her pleasure within reason.
All this assumes that she practices ordinary genital hygiene, of course. But it seems clear that it isn’t HER pussy he is repelled by, but rather vulvas in general.
DTMFA and let him find a girlfriend who wants the lights always to be turned off and his face nowhere near her pussy (I hear they exist).
@ 42: AGREE! Love it and will start using it immediately.
@ Dan (echoing the comments of others): Given that just shy of half of Canada’s population watched our gold medal win on Sunday, and that Jonathan Toews scored the first goal, it would seem that “Toews” is safe for now. But Vic’s initials are VT…. which sounds similar enough to VD that maybe we could work with that? Perhaps VT could, as an earlier commenter suggested, refer to an STI that is passed from a CPOS spouse to his or her unsuspecting hubby or wife?
Call me “Unicorn.” I’m 27, slept with plenty o’ people (in the 20-some-odd range) and the majority of them were willing to hold up their end of the oral bargain. In fact I would say 100% of them, because I don’t really recall anyone refusing but maybe because I wouldn’t/didn’t ask. I just really don’t enjoy it. Even with my long-term boyfriend it feels too intimate, for lack of a better word. I don’t like having someone’s face that close to my asshole and pee-hole. It has never brought me to orgasm though I come easily with intercourse or manual stimulation. I love giving BJ’s, but I couldn’t care less if anyone ever went down on me ever again.
Toews? Isn’t that similar to Santorum….except it’s the tiny drops of cum one finds on bristles of one’s beard……….while paying for a Coke at the convenience store….or sitting down for a Parent Teacher Conference.
Not restricted to those scenarios….Toews is a noun referring to the embarrassing discovery of jizz when you can least explain its presence.
#77 sorry you feel personally attacked for my philosophy about men and society. My point was, as a 41 year old who has been there, done that.. I’m discriminating on finding a lover that is ENTHUSIASTIC for pussy..and they’re out there, you just have to be picky and not accept the hemers, hawers and high maintenance selfish guys. Like Dan says, it’s STANDARD, it SHOULD come with every model, or send it back. Sure it could simply be entitlement or an A-sexual issue, like the person who doesn’t find gentalia attractive…I (as also suggested by Dan Savage) tend to question a man’s sexual preference if he’s not lapping at the box. I have a lot of female friends who agree with this. Girl locker-room talk…’oh he doesn’t get into that?’ ‘I wonder…is he gay?’…If I had a nickel for every time I heard that… I think people in general need to communicate their needs…Thank you for your well wishes. lol! So sorry if I somehow made you feel inadequate for not loving pussy. 😉 Trust me sweet heart, I’m sure you’ll find the women that don’t like to receive too, there’s plenty of those out there as well, so you’ll be all happy.
Beeker, if you don’t expect oral in return for the oral you’re never going to give, I have no problem with you.
Also, for the record, I’m a woman who hates receiving oral, but I don’t want to be with the kind of guy who wouldn’t even offer, especially if I’d just blown him.
Thank you SO much for adding that comment about Prudie’s handling of the latex fetish question. I hope your alternative gets to her, or her son, somehow.
Just wanted to add my two cents. As a girl in High School I thought the idea of oral was gross! When I first started playing around giving head became one of my favorite things, but I still felt uncomfortable receiving it. Because I was uncomfortable, I couldn’t relax and so never enjoyed it.
Then I met a boy who thought that was strange, he just couldn’t understand why I didn’t want him going down there. He’s one of those guys who likes the smell and taste of pussy. He never pressed the issue in bed, but in casual conversations he would say things like “If God made Chinese food, that would be the Sweet and Sour sauce.”
I know that makes it sound even grosser, but his humor helped me relax. When he eventually went down on me, I realized that I had never had an orgasm before. The good tingly feelings from sex that I always had were just the precursors!
Even though he turned out to be an asshole in other ways, I will always be thankful to him for that.
I am a proud Canadian who thinks that the entire conservative government is a collection of dipshits. When Stephen Harper first became Prime Minister, I promised that I would never live in a country in which gays cannot marry and women cannot get abortions. I love my country, I love my gay friends and I love my rights as a woman so let’s get rid of the conservative bastards.
@45 – I love to eat pussy, but I’m not at all turned on by MF cunnilingus porn. As much as I enjoy putting MY face there, I’m not super pumped about watching some ugly mofo do the same.
Ugh- I can’t BELIEVE Prudie gave crap advice like that….of COURSE the kid is upset- his mother is trying to micromanage his porn!!!
…and as to Dan’s jackboots comment- all I can think of now is Carmen Ghia from The Producers saying “Love it!” heehee…
@10, @29, I agree: John Toews is also the director of the Comparative History of Ideas program at UW–a program dedicated to critical thinking, continental philosophy, and other forms of fabulous and sparkly mentally gay come-together goodness–and is one of the last people deserving a yicky sex act named after him. Let’s not.
@88: OK, now I’m thinking that you didn’t actually read my posts, at all. I LOVE eating pussy, and you might have gathered as much from my original post when I wrote “I love eating pussy”! It’s one of my favorite parts of sex, by far.
But your post didn’t say “I think all women deserve a man who’ll go down on them” (which I agree with). It said “I think you’re gay because you think about this stuff too much, and truly straight men don’t”. And that’s insulting as hell, not because being gay is a bad thing (nor a good thing, for that matter), but because you equated being contemplative (among other things) with not being a “real man”, ergo being gay or closeted.
That nonsense is straight out of middle school, when the jocks would pick on the nerdy, thoughtful kids and call them “fags” because they were into books instead of sports. (Naturally, some of those jocks later turned out to be gay.) And it plays into all kinds of bullshit in our society about how “real men don’t think, they just act”, and how being contemplative and reflective are for sissies.
So, sorry, but I still think your post #71 is insulting bullshit, and 100% uncalled-for. You want a guy who’s not contemplative? Go get yourself a fratboy…but good luck getting HIM to eat you out with any kind of enthusiasm or passion.
@56 – The majority of people in Canada don’t vote. And even if they did, it’s not like our system features any fair representation. First Past the Post!
To Not THAT Prudie @ 58.
The first words out of her mouth were to call the boy a deviant. She also referred to fetishism as a mental disorder. I’d say that means she pretty CLEARLY knocked the fetish (she knocks all of them actually).
Also, while you are right, that the extent to which it sounds like he focuses on latex may actually indicate OCD, dear sweet Prudence NOT ONCE indicated that he would benefit from seeking treatment from specialists in OCD, but from specialists who treat SEX OFFENDERS.
She is the one who focused on her wrong-headed views of fetishes. Not only has she done the boy a disservice by shaming him and scaring the hell out of his mother, she has possibly caused him harm.
SO glad to see NOT’s letter answered, although I found Dan’s answer a little disturbing. I’ve been desperate for some advice in this vein.
My boyfriend of 2+ years also refuses to go down on me, insisting that any mouth parts on any genitals is gross. He tried it once after much pleading and drunkenness, and subsequently decided that my vulva is indeed an unhappy place for his face. (I FIRMLY disagree.) I’m happy to go down on him–I don’t find it gross–but he insists (1) that I brush my teeth before kissing him again, fair, and (2) that the minute I don’t enjoy it anymore, I can and should stop.
Anyone have any great insights (beyond more begging and pristine vulval conditions) as to how to get this otherwise GGG, wonderful boy to take his mouth south?
@39 FTW
Rick Mercer has a blog? How did I miss it – laughed so hard I could barely breathe.
Thank You
@ 88 – you go man! Call her on her shit.
Wimpy, hesitant, insecure, neurotic = gay.
Decisive, aggressively sexual, manly men = straight.
Totally not offensive to gay men OR straight men. And if lots of her girlfriends say it in the locker room, it MUST be true! I think that’s Step 8 of the Scientific Method, right? See if girls say it to each other in the locker room.
Step 9 is to see if those girls also watch Sex and the City, in which case the theory is proven.
Honestly, the “you must be gay” thing is akin to “you’re un-American” or “you’re a socialist” or “you’re a nazi.” Designed to put one on the defensive and shut down actual conversation. It’s a cheap and easy button to push.
Its frequency of utterance is directly proportional to the age of the woman involved, and inversely proportional to her attractiveness level. When they hit their mid-30’s, watch out. Whether you’re doing her or not, you’re gay. See, age, biological-clock-panic, weight, and hotness are the buttons we can push on them.
If she’s 41 and a fat Ho-bag who would want to eat that? If she were hot, men would beg to put their faces there.
There I go getting all gay again, with my thinking and thoughts n’ stuff.
@96…You’re focusing on the adjectives I used, such as contemplative over the actual message. I hit it dead on with the guys that “hem and haw.” Some are just hesitant and making cunnilingus an “optional thing” vs. their standard blow-job, some NEVER go down, most women have experienced the gamut of these un-enthusiasts. I’m exaggerating assuming a guy like this is “gay”, yes. I just find it ODD when so men are clearly wanting to get laid all the time and have all this testosterone and horniness, except when it comes to cunnilingus which renders them spineless and squeamish. Since becoming a picky screener this hasn’t happened to me for some time, but I like to stand up for women because I know (as a woman) that women aren’t speaking up. Infuriatingly, there are many men that think getting laid means 1.) blow-job and 2.) a screw. You’d be surprised… I’ve heard it from my brothers and their friends, lucky me! Yet women are made constantly aware of the eternal blow job deficit that plagues mankind! We hear about it through movies, porn, television, etc… I’m definitely NOT saying softer guys and the “thinkers” are gay, NOT that there’s anything wrong with it. 😉 I’m attracted to metrosexuals and refined types myself. I’m saying it’s easier to write a man off as “gay(ish)” if he can’t dive into pussy and there’s a lot of women that think this to be the case not just Dan. Maybe we think it out of convenience or reassurance, who knows. I refuse to believe all these women saying they don’t love getting oral, that’s just crazy. They’ve just had a bad experience with an unenthused type. Most of these women think it’s just easier to not be into it. The pro-lickers need better PR because the anti-lickers seem to be winning. Most women just want guys to want it. Just like men wanting women to want to go down on them. It’s funny how it works both ways. Kudos to the good guys out there, we hear you.
@96…You’re focusing on the adjectives I used, such as contemplative over the actual message. I hit it dead on with the guys that “hem and haw.” Some are just hesitant and making cunnilingus an “optional thing” vs. their standard blow-job, some NEVER go down, most women have experienced the gamut of these un-enthusiasts. I’m exaggerating assuming a guy like this is “gay”, yes. I just find it ODD when so men are clearly wanting to get laid all the time and have all this testosterone and horniness, except when it comes to cunnilingus which renders them spineless and squeamish. Since becoming a picky screener this hasn’t happened to me for some time, but I like to stand up for women because I know (as a woman) that women aren’t speaking up. Infuriatingly, there are many men that think getting laid means 1.) blow-job and 2.) a screw. You’d be surprised… I’ve heard it from my brothers and their friends, lucky me! Yet women are made constantly aware of the eternal blow job deficit that plagues mankind! We hear about it through movies, porn, television, etc… I’m definitely NOT saying softer guys and the “thinkers” are gay, NOT that there’s anything wrong with it. 😉 I’m attracted to metrosexuals and refined types myself. I’m saying it’s easier to write a man off as “gay(ish)” if he can’t dive into pussy and there’s a lot of women that think this to be the case not just Dan. Maybe we think it out of convenience or reassurance, who knows. I refuse to believe all these women saying they don’t love getting oral, that’s just crazy. They’ve just had a bad experience with an unenthused type. Most of these women think it’s just easier to not be into it. The pro-lickers need better PR because the anti-lickers seem to be winning. Most women just want guys to want it. Just like men wanting women to want to go down on them. It’s funny how it works both ways. Kudos to the good guys out there, we hear you.
@101…mature…
@96…You’re focusing on the adjectives I used, such as contemplative over the actual message. I hit it dead on with the guys that “hem and haw.” Some are just hesitant and making cunnilingus an “optional thing” vs. their standard blow-job, some NEVER go down, most women have experienced the gamut of these un-enthusiasts. I’m exaggerating assuming a guy like this is “gay”, yes. I just find it ODD when so men are clearly wanting to get laid all the time and have all this testosterone and horniness, except when it comes to cunnilingus which renders them spineless and squeamish. Since becoming a picky screener this hasn’t happened to me for some time, but I like to stand up for women because I know (as a woman) that women aren’t speaking up. Infuriatingly, there are many men that think getting laid means 1.) blow-job and 2.) a screw. You’d be surprised… I’ve heard it from my brothers and their friends, lucky me! Yet women are made constantly aware of the eternal blow job deficit that plagues mankind! We hear about it through movies, porn, television, etc… I’m definitely NOT saying softer guys and the “thinkers” are gay, NOT that there’s anything wrong with it. 😉 I’m attracted to metrosexuals and refined types myself. I’m saying it’s easier to write a man off as “gay(ish)” if he can’t dive into pussy and there’s a lot of women that think this to be the case not just Dan. Maybe we think it out of convenience or reassurance, who knows. I refuse to believe all these women saying they don’t love getting oral, that’s just crazy. They’ve just had a bad experience with an unenthused type. Most of these women think it’s just easier to not be into it. The pro-lickers need better PR because the anti-lickers seem to be winning. Most women just want guys to want it. Just like men wanting women to want to go down on them. It’s funny how it works both ways. Kudos to the good guys out there, we hear you.
Sorry for all the duplicates, total glitch!
@ 71 and subsequent posts. you are clearly projecting your own experiences onto all of humanity. fucking chill already. sorry but nothing annoys me more than someone attempting to stand up for one group of people by making ignorant comments about another group of people. you might be totally right about what you are saying in terms of the people that you know, but that doesn’t mean that’s true of everyone. everywhere.
and just because what you were saying was rooted in something good, like men should eat pussy, doesn’t negate the fact that some of the shit your saying on here is fucking ignorant and offensive.
MavenX, I’m sorry, but I’m one of those mythical unicorn women too. I’ve recieved oral for any number of guys, with varying laevels of enthusiasm, and I have never been able to achieve even the tingly-good feelings that indicate arousal, let alone orgasm. It’s not a matter of being a prude or gynophobe, it’s more to do with disliking the sensation. Whoever described it as being dabbed at with a damp sponge upthread is spot on the mark – that how it feels for me, and coupled with the unpleasant senstion of warm saliva dribbling down my butt cheeks… I prefer to pass.
Recieveing oral is something I will only do to please a partner who insists, and that is usually more because they want to show off their skills than because they genuinely love the act. Still, I think everyone should be willing to offer, male and female. But not every set of genitals will respond to the same sensations.
#99. Your boyfriends mouth is way nastier than your vagina. He should be brushing his teeth before licking your sweet spot.
With men being so visually stimulated, we can tell you exactly how we want a blowjob to be performed on us, because we’ve see it before. We want it sloppy, varying amounts of hand and mouth action, we want our head teased, balls licked, etc. Most guys have a favorite blowjob scene in their porn stash.
Problem is most porn stars suck major ass when it comes to giving head, and guys are only emulating what they see. As a result, you get guys giving either half-hearted efforts or trying to gnaw off the clit.
Think about this…your breath doesn’t smell that great all the time, what makes you think that a vagina should smell like daffodils 24/7? Pussy has a unique aroma, but it doesn’t always smell the same. I noticed that my gf tends to smell stronger when she’s ovulating. And once I get her wet, the odor goes away. If you still have hangups over the smell, how about you be proactive, instead of a douche, and suggest the two of you shower together, cause I’m pretty sure your balls could use some scrubbing as well.
Bottom line…learn to love the pussy, and it will reap major benefits. I learned the power that great cunnilingus gives you in my teens. I’m nor proclaiming to be best best or anything like that, all I know is that I haven’t come across one woman who didn’t experience squirting orgasms, and they always ‘expressed their gratitude’ afterwards. I have never had to ask for a blowjob. That’s having power at the tip of your tongue.
I’m a vagetarian and love chowing down a good Smoked Meat Sandwich as often as I can. I also love to watch her pussy pulsate after the Big O!!
@69 You ask what is the big deal about oral?
How ’bout 10 minute orgasms for starters…
I confess I have yet to meet a man that didn’t seem to love giving me a good licking (I’m 43). Guess I’ve just been lucky, but I think perhaps most normal men love pussy!
Doctors do not tell people they have six months to live. This only happens in the movies. Real doctors do not do this because prognoses come true. I call shenanigans.
I hated Prudie’s advice to the latex glove fetish mom. Dan might have also told her-if she’d asked him, and she should have- that following Prudie’s advice to take the kid to a psychiatrist will likely result in his being doped to the gills on whatever designer psych drugs the rep just dropped off, none of which are intended or clinically tested on children. Seriously- what a disaster that advice was- I hated that. Hated it. I hope that lady reads Dan, or at least the Fray- Prudie’s discussion board.
It really doesn’t help to say ‘DTMFA’ without offering some suggestions to make the guy happier with cunnilingus.
I’m not particularly attracted to pussy, I couldn’t stand the smell of an ex girlfriend (who refused to give me a blowjob, incidentally..) and I only go down on women I’m very keen on as otherwise I find it unpleasant.
I could probably learn to like it better, but this first of all needs a bit of understanding and guidance and second some appreciation and encouragement of any effort offered.
After Ms ‘smelly pussy’ my next girlfriend was uncomfortable with men going down on her. Is it any wonder it takes time to get over that?
I am bi, but trust me when I say that I very definitely like women. I just don’t stick my head between the legs of every woman I get into bed with.
If you choose to remain in a sexual relationship as an adult, you have the responsibility to help your partner sort out some of their sexual issues. This goes double for sex advice columnists, who should be helping everyone improve their sex life rather than resorting to finding a new partner.
@69 : Perhaps you don’t enjoy oral because it’s not done the way you’d enjoy it. I never enjoyed oral until 35, when I met my current boyfriend – who *loves* pussy.
I was raised to think that oral on a woman was gross, and no boyfriend of mine ever offered to do down on me – though I gave oral to them. As for the shitty ex-husband, he tried it, and it was either bleh or hurting me. So I gave up on oral. Then came this guy who would love my genitals, taste, odor, everything, and I now get lovely orgasms out of oral.
Oh, Dan. I love love love you. I too thought of you immediately upon reading the Prudie letter (if fact, I mostly read her to groan at the horrible advice she gives). I have never felt strongly enough that you did wrong to leave a comment. Until today.
Why why WHY use so much space to rant about one Canadian asshole the week that you can officially marry whomever you want in our very own District of Columbia!!?!?!? Our Nation’s Capitol! Gay Marriage! Congress could have fucked it up, Marion Barry could have fucked it up. But they didn’t! It’s awesome! Get on it, Dan!
@107 Seriously you’re right. I guess everyone’s perception becomes “truth” and mine MIGHT have snow-balled. I started looking for evidence a while ago. One time my friend told me that she thinks I’d rather be right then pleased on this issue. hmmmmm. Sorry for the offensive generalizations.
NOT’s boyfriend isn’t necessarily a fag; he might instead be a misogynist – he likes FUCKING women but (or because) he dislikes/hates women and therefore dislikes pussy as anything but a hole for him to fuck. Of course, NOT doesn’t mention if her boyfriend likes fucking her pussy either; maybe he ONLY likes getting head (from women, which wouldn’t necessarily make him gay OR misogynistic)? As there are gay men/women who are into only oral (or oral and manual/digital) sex, I imagine there are straight and bi (and pan and whatever else) people for whom the same holds true, although straight people may be more likely (or not, given the emergence of normalized homosexuality) to engage in sexual behaviors that are socially expected of their sex/gender/sexuality, as they have not necessarily already rejected one set of sexual norms. This could even conceivably manifest as a straight man who only LIKES receiving oral sex, DISLIKES performing oral sex, and IS INDIFFERENT TO using things like toys, fingers, his penis on sensitive areas of his partner to get her off (without getting himself off).
I doubt that’s the case here, but it is possible, and I don’t think that the letter (or what we see of it) has enough info to make a definitive determination. Although I’ll agree that the “I don’t like looking at pussy” thing screams either “gay!” or “misogynist!”
As a side note, I’ve spoken to many (straight-identified) people of both (binary, normative) genders who dislike (not just don’t like, but actively dislike) giving oral sex. The two most common complaints I’ve encountered are muscle soreness (this can generally be avoided by changing positions and taking breaks) and taste (hard to do anything about this). As with most sexual practices people find distasteful (pardon the pun), in our culture women are simply more likely to suck it up (wow, hard to avoid puns when discussing oral sex) and give head than are men, though feminist discourse is slowly eroding this statistical difference.
Oral comes standard, or else you are a caveman/woman. End of discussion.
Man I feel bad for Latex Boy. Talk about trauma during you formative years.
Also, “jackboot of fascism”?! I know this “conservative” (the adoption of the term conservative is actually another instance of this, as these people seek to conserve very little, and that which they do wish to conserve only ever existed for-realzies in crazy fringe-minority communities) meme comes from intentional frame-fusion with no logical basis and is established through incessant repetition on talk radio and FOX and the like, and eventually other news-media organizations and the legislative debate chambers (look up propaganda, discourse, lexical framing, discourse subversion, Orwell’s “1984” for more info), but how is it that anyone initially buys into a concept like “Not oppressing this specific minority group is tantamount to fascism”? It’s not like the idea is to force YOUR church to accept gay members or perform gay marriages or whatever.
As another side rant, it drives me crazy that representatives want to block our health insurance reform here in the US if it DOESN’T SPECIFICALLY PREVENT FUNDING FOR ABORTION (which is a perfectly legal practice, and sometimes a medical and often a socioeconomic necessity), in addition to the federal law that already makes funding abortion-providing organizations with federal funds illegal, especially when the (constitutionally illegal) tax-exempt status of these fuckers’ churches goes unchallenged
Thanks for writing about Canada, Dan. We really do need some help up here. All of our health care / gay marriage / pot decriminalization came from other governments, not this one–and we have a lot to fear from our current government.
“I don’t like looking at pussy” thing screams either “gay!” or “misogynist!”
—–
Or “child molester” or “foot fetishist” or “latex fetishist” or “autisitic”….I love how the debate is instantly narrowed down to straight vs. gay.
Maybe he’s just an ass?
You’d think we’re all open-minded and enlightened about sex in 2010, but I swear I regularly hear the most Dark Ages bullshit “theories” come out of the mouths of people on a regular basis.
Example: Men who like “boyish” Asian girls have “homosexual tendencies.”
Wouldn’t men who like boyish Asian women be into…boys? And how does one define boyish? How does one define feminine beauty? Does this apply to men raised in China (no, I was told they get a pass)?
What about the fact that many straight men who go to prison end up having homosexual sex, regardless of their orientation? What does this mean?
Isn’t the lesson here that this stuff is too complicated and too understudied to be engaging in Armchair Philosophy and using our lame-brained theories to sling mud at each other? Aren’t we past all of this oversimplification and dismissal?
The crazy thing is that this often comes out of the mouth of gay men (looking at you Dan Savage). Talk about cutting your nose to spite your face. It’s a cheap shot specifically designed for straight-identified males that attacks their masculinity, and in the process demeans gay people themselves as being something less than masculine and undesireable.
You can’t sling that particular mud without getting some of it on yourself. At best the slinger is an asshole – you know people take it as an insult, rightly or wrongly, so why say it? – and at worst they’re a bigot.
@118 Amazing post… It almost sounds like you’ve studied it for years, logical and enlightening.
Two thoughts on the prudie column.
1) I’m not usually one to pick on peoples names, but the shrink she cites is Dr. Kafka?!?
2) Of course he’s not going to have a normal relationship – No one has a normal relationship. It’s a statistical concept that doesn’t apply to human people.
Dan,
I thought you would have mentioned how Canada’s appointed Minister of Immigration has removed all mention of gay-equality in all Canadian immigration materials.
Something that we have always been very open about – letting LBGT people the world over know that they have a SAFE place to come to live their lives as they want.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/poli…
The minister claims this is a “mistake” but he, like Towes was one of the biggest anti-gay marriage MPs and has said publically he’d like to see the law repealed.
Might I suggest:
“Getting a Towes and Kennedy” = having someone put both their testicles into your anus?
another asshole struggling with his own internal homosexual desires…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/04…
just another asshole struggling with internal homosexual desires…http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/04/roy-ashburn-arrested-anti_n_485419.html
@98 I agree that Prudie is not handling this properly, by conflating it with deviance (although I don’t think she’s calling him a deviant per se) I also think this kid’s actions around this fetish sound out of control, and that the mother has a reason to worry. I think there’s truth in what she says and that the problem is not exactly the fetish, but what causes the fetish to go out of control. But, she also has issues with fetishes in general, which is misinformed to say the least. I just think, on the flipside, Dan takes this stuff too lightly sometimes.
I wonder *out loud* if NGA will start having thoughts about wanting her married lover to divorce his wife and be with her after the husband dies…
@115, maybe you’re right, I do fantasize about it a lot but I’d rather not have it than risk someone being disgusted by me like some of the people here have admitted they are, that’s more than just a turn-off, it’s really horrifying! The times I’ve seen it in porn it’s girl-girl anyway.
Go down or go home!
19lisa (#130), if a guy expresses disgust while/after going down on you, he’s not worth your time. It sounds like it’d be well worth it for you to find a guy who enjoys going down on you, and how are you going to find him if you’re scared a guy will be turned off by your pussy? Think of oral sex as one compatibility data point, rather than a test you can fail.
I used to find oral sex less than satisfying, till I met my current partner. He didn’t have a lot of experience, but he wanted me to have a good time. We read the books She Comes First and He Comes Second together, and learned a lot from them. Amazon.com and some libraries carry these books.
Good luck to you! I hope you’re able to give yourself a self-confidence boost, and then find a man who’ll help you find out what the big deal is about oral.
That is so depressing to hear stories about women staying with guys that won’t go down on them…when there’s plenty of guys that love going down on women but haven’t been able to get any for months. (shedding a tear)
re: NGA
you ever consider staying away from the straight couple advice there Dano?
first thing that came to my mind with her story was:
(travel back in time five years)
“well doc- how’s it look?”
“um- not good- you have cancer- inoperable- but we may be able to prolong your life a short while with medication while you figure out how to destroy your family’s life by telling them you’re a goner- and in the meanwhile the meds are going to destroy your sex drive”
on the drive home guy thinks “I can’t tell them anything- that would be unimaginable and only cause strain for my child – I’ll just try to coast along and then die in one fell swoop”
coasting along a couple years luckily surviving he notices his wife having an affair anyway (ya- you do know straight men have brains, right?) and figures “oh well- since my family is over and done anyway I might as well break it to them”
women are selfish cunts Dan- once they lure men into dumping their loads and giving them children the guys are tossed wayside
keep up the affair to save your family “” ?
lmfao
but don’t worry- I like reading your column to confirm my lack of faith in society- it helps me to remember to stay the fuck out of the way and hope for the end soon
He says he doesn’t even like looking at my vagina
I don’t know whats crazier – the fact that theres guys who say this sort of shit or that theres some women who put up with it.
102: I have large inner labia and I lubricate a lot. When someone’s between my legs and they inhale, my bits freeze. It’s horrible. I hate cold in general, cold fingers aren’t invited inside me, I can’t sleep with someone breathing on me, but the instant freeze that comes with an inhalation in that area is the worst, sends me right back to zero. It’s not even a neutral thing I can do “for him”; it turns me off.
Which is sad, because pictures of dudes with their heads buried between ladylegs turn me on.
I don’t think I should have to explain all of this to you, though. I’m glad you like being eaten out, but I find it insulting that you won’t believe me when I say I don’t. We’re not all you.
There are a lotta secret fags here. I’m gay, but these secret fags are a cancer to everyone in their lives. Yes, if a man doesn’t like looking at pussy, thinking about it, going down on it, etc…he sure as shit ain’t straight.
@ 137 – You just said you’re gay. How would you know what a straight guy thinks about anything? Are you reading minds?
You don’t think a pussy is hot to look at or eat, and you’re gay. Guy B doesn’t think a pussy is hot to look at or eat either, so he must also be gay? That’s your reasoning?
Awesome.
Secret fags and secret Jews and secret communists…if only we could root out these people and expose them for the societal cancer they truly are.
“How would you know what a straight guy thinks about anything? Are you reading minds?”
Yeah, it’s just crazy to think that a straight guy would like pussy. Crazy…secret fag!
Straight men overthinking pussy? Nah, that’d never happen /sarcasm
Jonathan Toews just helped us win the Olympic gold in ice hockey, so I don’t think many Canadians will help you with that. Hockey, as you may know, takes precedence over everything else in Canada.
But yeah, Vic Toews is a douchebag.
I’m not convinced that NOT’s boyfriend is gay. In my experience, there are completely straight guys who aren’t visually attracted to pussies. Maybe it has something to do with this: the qualities that our culture emphasizes in depictions of pretty girls are hard to find in a pussy. A pussy does not look well-mannered, smooth (even if you wax it, the innards still look messy), polished, graceful, or cute. So some guys focus less on the pussy than the parts that seem more feminine. I’m a straight girl, so I’d like to hear from someone who’s attracted to girls: were you always visually attracted to pussies, or did you have to work to see their beauty?
Yes! Thank you Dan for bringing up the glove thing, thank you! She’s getting more and more conservative (not that she was ever SAVAGE), but that was a terrible diagnosis and terrible advice. Don’t know if you caught the comments on that article, but surprisingly almost everyone disagreed with her too, which I was glad to see. Her advice this week is about as equally infuriating (in reference to the nanny issue).
Thanks for adding that bit about Prudie! My hair was stood on end when I read her response. I kept thinking…why didn’t she write to DAN?!?!?!?
hey;) . it’s all cool, I Get It(.) ..and I Love You. I’m about to write you 518@;). Enjoy. Always,me
@hartiepie: Yes, never having sex even though you really want to have sex will mess with your mind. Trust me on this one. If the LW liked having lots of sex and then went without for five years, she would not end up as a happy camper. It’s different if you don’t want any or if you don’t care. Like the difference between being on an extreme diet and being in a famine situation.
On another note, if NOT’s boyfriend refused to kiss her mouth because he didn’t like the way her face looked, would she have kicked him to the curb months ago? Gay or not, if he’s refusing to look at and touch a part of her she needs to have looked at and touched, maybe, just maybe, they aren’t right for each other. Or she could have a nasty infection or be a smoker, who knows.
The poor glove kid getting hassled by his mom, because goodness knows the average 13 year old isn’t obsessed with sex. Oh, no. The hoarding is a problem, but it would be a problem if it was plastic porn-star pussy replicas, too. Perhaps the guys I knew back then were anomalous, but being somewhere between fascinated and obsessed with freaky sex shit was par for the course for the dudes I knew. Perhaps I’ve been reading Savage Love for too long, but I’d be suspicious of a 13 year old boy who was only interested in heterosexual missionary sex in the dark.
Best advice ever Dan! I love my woman’s pie so much I wish I could wear glasses with a picture of it glued to the inside so I can look at it all day as I work!
You heard me G*****di~
“some cat;) with delicate desire for skill,” send your cryptic little messages meant for only one person’s eyes via e-mail, wouldya? It’s getting old.
Did anyone else laugh their ass off at California state senator Roy Ashburn (Republican and gay-hater extraordinaire) getting pulled over for a DUI right after leaving a “gay” nightclub and he had an unidentified male passenger with him? I know my day just got better…
Just wanted to add that you don’t have to be Canadian to know who Jonathan Toews is. After all, when he’s not busy scoring goals for Team Canada, he’s a resident of the Windy City.
I agree with the Canuckle heads: You can’t make Toews into a bad word.
Hello Dan, Another Canadian here adding to the 150 or so comments. People need to know that there is a segment of society out there who don’t care if they have sex, would actually rather NOT have sex, even though they wish to have relationships. Yes, it’s weird. No, i’m not one of them, but i’m married to one of them. Look at http://www.asexuality.org to find more information on that topic. I thoroughly enjoy your column, Dan, wish i’d found it years earlier. Thanks for all the great info.
“Yeah, it’s just crazy to think that a straight guy would like pussy. Crazy…secret fag!”
Not crazy, just a wonderful way to dodge the issue. Define “like.” Does that mean like putting my dick in it? Putting my face in it? Putting it in my mouth? Eating it for dinner with a side of potatoes? Taking it out to a club?
Plenty of chicks and gay dudes love giving blow jobs but hate swallowing and dislike the sensation of cum on their faces.
But, but…I thought you liked cock! I thought you liked men! You should love my asparagus-flavored spunk in your mouth and eye! You must be a lesbo or a straight guy after all. You must not really love me.
If you can dislike my spunk, I can dislike your stinky cooter juice or your unshaven asshole.
Secret dipshit!
Oh, and just a post script on whoever it was who said we won’t go crazy without sex… they are wrong, WRONG, WROOOOOOONNNNNNGGGGG. When you don’t get any, it ends up being just about the only thing you think about all day long and way into the night. For those of us not getting any who have high sex drives, it very well can drive you insane.
@39 & 40. The Canadian politician you mentioned is Don Boudria not Don Boudia. You forgot to put the “r” in his surname.
“Define ‘like’.”
THat’s like those guys who say “I like female ‘energy’, and the concept of having sex wtih women, just not having sex with women” or “we should wait until marriage, because jesus would want it that way”. Ya know, secret fag talk. It gets all technical and complicated…as do the justifications for refusing to have sex.
We’re not talking about one aspect of the act cunnerlangus (so gross…I can’t believe I’m arguing with a secret fag about heterosexual sex that makes me gag–ya know, like all of it… bastard), but all aspects of vajean, vajayjay and pussah-pussay. A self identified heterosexual who is disgusted by all aspects of pussy (the idea, and all and every one, and every aspect) is not a heterosexual man. Just like a gay guy that enjoys having sex with women ain’t no queer. Could be asexual, actually.
But all this just confirms for me what I already know about you…that you’re a SECRET FAG!
Um. There are medical conditions that create unpleasant vaginal odor/taste, and they’re not always curable. Some foods create a really bad taste. There are lesbians who don’t like cunnilingus, giving or receiving–I’m married to one (in Canada). There are straight men who don’t like cunnilingus. There are straight women who don’t like oral-to-ejaculation, and that’s true for some gay men. If somebody just cannot do it, forcing the issue is only going to create resentment, and sooner or later that will hurt your sex life.
A partner who demands oral sex but won’t give it is an inconsiderate jerk. BUT. If a partner just can’t deal with oral sex but doesn’t expect what s/he won’t give and is bend-over-backwards considerate in bed in every other respect… consider the whole person and decide what you need most.
Who’s the better partner–a considerate lover who just has a block against oral sex, or a pussy-eating jerk? I’ve lived with both, and somebody who’s 97% perfect and 3% disappointing is better than 5% hot and 95% inconsiderate idiot.
If oral sex is a deal-breaker, break it and find someone whose needs match your own.
There’s no one across-the-board answer, and no 100% perfect happy-ever-after mate. Long-term love is about compromise, but you’ve got to decide case-by-case what is important and what can be compromised.
Surprise: Anti-gay rights (married) republican senator arrested for DUI after leaving a gay bar with his boy toy:
http://cbs13.com/local/ashburn.arrest.du…
@155…fuckin love it!!!! Sorry offended guys! 😉 Maybe it’s time you look at WHY YOU’RE OFFENDED. You are callin it and I’m hearing you!! thank you for saying what we’re all thinking!
@157 – so i heard… another one bites the dust… or the sausage… or takes it like a man… or… well, hell. you know what i mean… couldn’t have happened to a nicer hyprocrite…
OK, in response to the latex glove/Prudie issue, neither the mother nor Prudie were saying the fetish was bad. (Mom: “…should I just chalk it up to a personality quirk and worry no longer?” doesn’t sound like a mom who’s too freaked out). They were both concerned that, at 13, the glove fetish was taking control. My concern would be that the kid has OCD or hoarding issues which should be addressed early on. “[The doctor] says patients are greatly relieved when they come to feel they control the fetish instead of having it control them—which may be what your son is experiencing now.” 13-year-old kids have a lot of shit to handle already, without also having an overwhelming obsession to deal with.
@152,
Am I the only one here who realizes that you don’t have to taste vaginal juices while you’re giving oral to a woman? *confused*
Just tell the lady it’s too sour or makes u gag or whatever, and flick your tongue over her clitoris, you don’t have to either lick her vaginal opening or avoid cunnilingus altogether, just like women don’t have to either swallow cum or avoid fellatio altogether! If scent is a problem do it after she’s showered. If hairs annoy you, have her shave them or trim them, or do it yourself, it can be a fun and intimate experience. If you don’t like the way it looks, close your fucking eyes or do it in the dark. You can work your way around these issues.
If you don’t like the way it feels, well then you’re just gay.
I loved the half of your column that wasn’t a rant about a Canadian politician. I haven’t a problem with what you said as I totally agree but when I read a sex advice column I expect … well, sex advice. You personal rants would seem more appropriate elsewhere.
I dated a guy who only liked receiving oral, and complained about just not being into giving oral because of the taste/appearance. He wasn’t gay, he was a selfish asshole who made excuses for everything.
NGA — You should have divorced your husband so he could have had a chance to find someone who really loves him to be with him while he was dying. I don’t get Dan’s view that having an affair is a way of “saving” your marriage. There obviously wasn’t enough there worth saving and it’s cowardly to justify a secret affair by convincing oneself that it will help rather than hurt. I hope to hell my spouse will ask me for a divorce before having an affair in the deluded idea that somehow this is saving our marriage.
Dan I usually admire your advice but I think you’re fooling yourself about this one.
re: enjoying oral love. . . Pleasuring someone orally, or with fingers or toys, is something you do if your partner gets excited about it. The pleasuring is done not because the person doing it gets off – the pleasure for the giver comes in hearing the moans, sighs, and other feedback from the recipient. Cunnilingus in particular is filled with unusual smells, tastes, and visuals, so it takes some getting used to. (yes, yes, from personal experience, ok?) I had a lover who wasn’t into it when we were together, but wrote to me a year later to say that he *regretted* he was an early bloomer to it. I would try initiating it in the shower, where fresh water flowing will dilute the smell/taste factor. Right after a shower might work, too. And GIVE FEEDBACK, ladies! If you want less saliva dripping down your crack, SAY SO! “Love, a little less saliva, please.” Talking about these issues while NOT in bed is very important. Sex is NOT a dirty word, or topic, and if you “can’t” talk about it, you have no basis in reality to argue that you’d be able to handle the potential consequences.
NO WAY.
ABSOLUTELY NOT.
JONATHAN TOEWS IS A GREAT CHICAGO BLACKHAWKS FORWARD WHO WAS PROBABLY THE BEST PLAYER ON TEAM CANADA THROUGH THE OLYMPICS.
SOILING THE NAME OF A BIGOT POLITICIAN NO ONE WILL KNOW OF IN 3 YEARS WOULD MEAN SOILING THE NAME OF A HOT 22 YEARS OLD ATHLETE WITH HIS WHOLE CAREER AHEAD OF HIM.
“What’s the big deal about oral sex anyway?” is comment 69?! Oh, sweet irony!
That Prudie letter really pissed me off. The mom is being a mom, and I guess I understand why she’s freaking – her vanilla outlook doesn’t see room for kink in her son’s future relationships. But Prudie should have calmed mom the fuck down. For Christ’s sake, the kid doesn’t have a dengerous fetish like sex with animals or hurting people, he likes latex. Big. Fucking. Deal. And he’s lucky to have learned his kink so young. Hopefully it’ll save him years of dissatisfying sexual relationships.
So here’s Dan again with the “anti pussy must be gay” bullsh!t again.
I’ve had enough pussy to know that there is a MASSIVE difference between rotten, hairy, make-you-wanna-puke pussy thats also UGLY, and at the other end of the scale delicate, well manicured, practically odorless beautiful loveclam that I would lick for hours.
So girls, if there are lots of guys repulsed by your parts, Im afraid its probably you. Gladly there are some things you can do to improve the experience… except the look of it to a certain extent.
DAN if you read this: Being a straight guy who is against eating pussy is very much the same as a gay guy who is against licking asshole. Doesnt mean the straight guy is gay or the gay guy is straight. I love your podcast and column but sometimes you are just way too biased by the gayness.
I wanna know one thing: I bet any money there are a reasonable number of lesbians who will back me up and say that there are some pussies they wouldnt wanna give oral. Am I right?
@ MavenX, Im sorry but you are not helping the sisterhood by your blind ranting about this topic. All you’re doing is affirming the likelihood that you have an unpleasant minge. I hope you find/have a guy who’s enthusiastic about whatever you’re packing down there. Try a french dude, they eat frogs and snails and such right?
@170 As I’ve already specified…I’m “all set” in that dept, thank you! 🙂 I’m quite a bit pickier about lovers these days. Rest assured that my lady parts are sparklin and perty, not resembling anything remotely close to a snail and a frog, thanks. I’ve noticed from your other post you’re particularly defensive on this issue. You might want to refer to post # 137…take care sweetie.
“Being a straight guy who is against eating pussy is very much the same as a gay guy who is against licking asshole. Doesnt mean the straight guy is gay or the gay guy is straight”
No, actually it’s nothing like that, you super secret GAY. YOu’re a double agent, codename: queermo.
Um, naaaaa. Vaginas aren’t like assholes. Yes, they’re both holes, but a vagina is more accurately compared to a penis, or a reproductive sex organ.
And you super secret gays are missing the point entirely. THis isn’t about rotten hygiene, or any kind of hygiene. THis about a dude who hates pussy, period. The mere thought of it makes him puke (me too! But unlike you closet cases, I’m not a gloryhole troll). That’s called being gay in well informed circles.
Haven’t any of you secret fags a shred of decency?
Tank, you’re so good, I’m almost beginning to wonder if you ARE Dan Savage! Bravo, LMFAO!
Dan! I am sooo glad you said something about that Dear Prudence article!! I read Pruddy’s answer & immediatly thought that had you answered it, that poor kid would have a MUCH happier future to look forward to, latex gloves and all! Too bad we can’t tell that paranoid mother.
You are applying American values to Canadian politics and it doesn’t work. Sexual hysteria is an American trait, not a Canadian one.
You’re the jackboot KING, Dan!
Spot on as always!
Far be it from me to pass judgement on anyone and their sexual preferences, but as a guy I absolutely love to eat pussy. Assuming well cleaned and cared for genitals, I can’t understand how the female bits can be a major turn-off for men. I also can’t fathom how a woman could dislike her lover going down on her.
For my wife and me, it’s all part of the wonderful foreplay experience. And it helps me achieve more pleasure (ie. gets me hornier) being able to pleasure my wife in that way.
To each his own, but I don’t get it. Just glad my wife and I are compatible in this way.
@172 Im glad you and MavenX are hitting it off: One one hand we have a militaristic self envisaged superhero acting on behalf of all women wordwide, and then Tank The UltraGay, the worlds most unqualified source of information on female sex organs.
An unlikely pair, but what the hell.
Anyway, since you are too dimwitted to figure it out – I wasnt saying ass is exactly same as puss. I was saying that just like there is a spectrum of human responses and preferences to eating vag, there must surely be a range of inclinations among gays to licking ass. Just tryin to break it down for the ignorant gay contributors into a language they can ram in their ass, reverse digest and perhaps assimilate into their brains.
I find it amusing that now gays are mostly accepted in western society, it is the gays themselves who are heckling straights – and using gay labels as a derogatory slander! If only americans understood the concept of irony you would really have a good laugh about that. Really shows a level of self-hate and inferiority amongst some of you poor queers.
@ 177
“I also can’t fathom how a woman could dislike her lover going down on her.”
I think it’s a combination of bad body image and never having experienced it with a guy who can do it right.
Apology accepted, dtek. Now, the next time your folks roll their eyes in frustration when you talk about how much “puss” you’re getting, you’ll know why: the only person you’re fooling is yourself.
And no, gays aren’t “mostly accepted in western society,” it’s just no longer legal for the stupid vulgar to murder them, i.e., it’s better to be gay in the u.s. than iran. It’s not great, though…because the stupid vulgar here are plentiful and still deny us our rights.
Dtek, glad we succeeded in irritating your pompous ass! I actually love the way you described me. I’m feeling rather important now that I’ve been regarded as a super-hero for half the world’s population. It’s reassuring your views are in the minority here. The only irony is that you don’t seem to understand Tank isn’t mocking his own sexuality but rather calling out the men who stay closeted for not only harming themselves, but the hapless females that get dragged along for the ride. These narcissists spew excuses for their sexual incapability and blame it on the female plumbing or hygiene. Do yourselves and the females in your life a courtesy and come out already.
God bless you people ‘cauze really, you are VERY complicated!
It’s not a badthing! You complex. May She bless You!
Simple i’ goo’. Complex i’ goo’.
“Now, the next time your folks roll their eyes in frustration when you talk about how much “puss” you’re getting”
Umm I am now seeing clearly how maladjusted you really are. I deduce from your strange assumption that you must go bragging about how many salds you’ve tossed to your parents? They must be Proud with a capital P. Or is it that you’re scared to tell em you’re gay? Worried daddy might get “stupid and vulgar” on your ass? Who’s hiding in closets now bigman?
Maven, I wrote a little reply but then realised you are just a troll. Both online, and I’d speculate probably troll-like in real life also. Have a nice life with your delusions and over-inflated expectations. You’re beyond help.
“Don’t Toews me, Bro!”
dtek..Oh ouch! I’m a troll now!?!?! I bet you were the kind of boy who would call a girl fat when she didn’t respond to your awkward nuances. That’s the best ya got? I wonder if even you have figured out what your “agenda” is in here…Because unless you are a bitter, secret fag that is disturbed by this whole exposition, I really can’t imagine what you’re going on about and getting your panties bunched up over…That’s just it really. You don’t see too many pussy hungry, hetero boys in here fighting Dan Savage’s theory. I’m glad because it seems like Dan managed to reach the few out there that needed to hear this the most.
My boyfriend loves to give me oral. I get super fine orgasms from them. I guess I’m just lucky or he’s has skills. We’ve been together for five years and he still begs to go down on me. Sometimes I have to refuse if I haven’t showered yet, haha.
I’m always conscious of how mine looks or how it might smell. My bf says he loves it and it does not smell. I know a few guy friends who wont go down on girls because of how it tastes/smells. Some of my girl friends don’t ever get to “come” or enjoy it. With that in mind, It seems rare to find a guy that actually does it right and enjoys it.
179, it is possible for a woman to be physically wired in such a way as to derive little or no pleasure from oral sex. By insisting that anyone who doesn’t get off on it has just not met that mythical ‘right guy’, you’re ignoring our testimony and making yourself appear tunnel-visioned on the issue. I am not going to put a number to my partners here, but rest assured I’m not a young girl with a couple of youthful fumblings under my belt.
My clitoris is positioned beneath my skin, and is so small as to be vestigal. Any orgasm I have is from stimulation of the G spot. There are women like me, as well as women who simply don’t enjoy the sensation, and even women who lack an external clitoris entirely, due to botched surgery as infants. I’d accept your pity, but not your denial of our existence!
And I have my counterparts; men who are happy to look at pussy, finger pussy, fuck pussy, but are still often relieved not to have to lick it. And no, it’s not an issue of hygiene or grooming – I have recieved compliments!
I know you’re trying to stand up for every woman’s right to expect oral from her partner, and I applaud that motivation. But you have to allow for exceptions. We’ll take the men who complain about sore necks and tongues, and leave the happy lickers to you and your fortunate sisters, how about that?
I am sorry I sounded dismissive of women like you, 188! Of course whenever you make a generalization you have to allow for exceptions or you’re narrow minded, and I am aware that there is no thing that is pleasurable to absolutely every person in the world. Rest assured I didn’t think women unable to derive pleasure from external stimulation didn’t exist, I just neglected to add the “there are exceptions to this generalization” disclaimer. For a long time women were expected to orgasm without external stimulation, although that was impossible for a majority of women, so a backlash against that harmful belief resulted in overlooking women for whom external stimulation does little or nothing.
But I can’t resist adding, sore neck and tongue is a bad excuse for avoiding cunnilingus 😉 The giver should assume a comfortable position (sitting on the floor?) and take breaks during which fingers/vibrators can be used.
@188 Those were all great points! I totally understand and agree with everything you said. Growing up between two boisterous bad-ass brothers has turned me into somewhat of a feminist zealot! 🙂 I will say one of my major buttons is inequality, and renders me with tunnel vision on issues. No punn intended! lol! Thanks!
@189 Same thing, and yes AGREED sore neck and tongue are no excuse baby! Get into a different position and take some advil, let’s get crackin! 😉
LOL’d on public transit…just broke up with ‘fag’ who wouldn’t go down on me. That wasn’t ‘thee’ reason but going on 3 mos and he never gave it a whirl? We’d had the safe sex talk, etc. When I asked him why his response was “didn’t know it was ‘on the menu'” – wtf is that?!
i have a theory about the phobic cons. I’ve studied them in their natural habitats. So to speak.
Take the given, ourselves. We have had to face our fears, our fears of coming out, out to families and friends, to ourselves. We’ve faced the fears of kink, or ab-normalcy. We’ve suffered, in many cases, humiliation because of who we are.
The conservatives, through no fault of their own, have not had these hurdles. They haven’t had their own fears to deal with. And when we present them a reality that is different, strange, we frighten them in a way that they can’t cope with. Raising hate mongering only leads to polarity.
Yeah, I know I’m being a bit naive.
#80 – yes, sorry, but you are. Luckily, there are plenty of others out there with your malfunction, so maybe you can meet someone who is equally grossed out by your body parts as you are by hers, and you can have a nice, sanitary, eyes -closed sex life together.
@191 You go girl!!! He sounds like he was a mutant ninj! What does he think he’s ordering, ‘a la carte?’ You go get yourself the full meal deal baby!
BWAHAHAHAA! Oh Tank…I’m going to work the phrase “vajean, vajayjay and pussah-pussay” into my conversation this very day.
And to Secret Agent Queermo, his whole point was that if even spying a stray pussy out of the corner of his eye makes the guy run in fear, there’s some shenanigans goin’ on.
So wait, does this mean it’s fair game to describe women who refuse to give blowjobs as man-hating, closeted lesbians? Because if you’re OK with calling non-cunnilinguists “secret fags”, you can’t really object to that one — at least not without being a complete and utter hypocrite.
Or, y’know, we could treat each other with respect and understanding, and stop beating our chests and flinging bullshit, stupid accusations at people we know nothing about. Just a crazy thought.
@164: Yup in an ideal world NGA should have divorced him and let him find someone new. What do you recommend now that he’s dying, bedridden (probably) and completely dependent? Seems to me an affair to keep her sane is relatively minor if she’s taking care of him and letting him have the dignity he needs.
BTW, I’m one of the women who has a little bit of a problem with oral. Not because I don’t like it, but it’s almost too intense as a normal thing. I can get so into it I pass out or get REALLY loud. Most guys get freaked by that. Ok as an occasional thing but not every time.
Having said that, any guy who won’t go down isn’t worth my time.
#196 YES. Well if I had a friend who didn’t give blow-jobs because she thought the penis looked gross and hated to get that close to it, or touch it, I guess I would question her sexuality in the same way..and I have before. I have one friend who told me this and I asked if she thought she might be gay… I don’t know, it makes sense both ways…BTW, a lot of women lie when they say they don’t like to see men naked. I subscibed to playgirl in my 20’s and all my friends couldn’t believe it and thought it was soooo weird…UNTIL THEY CAME OVER and wanted to see the mags immediately every time.
I am so happy to see the confidential Prudie comment. As soon as I read that last week, I thought that woman should have written in to Savage Love instead and I vowed to never read Prudie again. This will be my only advice column from now on. Love the freaks and the kinks, and especially the common sense!
Thank you for noticing that Canada is under tyranny from a toxic recombination of extreme right-wing elements of the defunct Progressive Conservative Party combined together with ordinary members of the former Reform Party – an assemblage of the same sort of wank-heads to think that German National Socialism would solve all problems for Germany.
They assembled under the shadow of Dubya Bush, and are now keeping heads down in order to hope not being noticed while they desecrate Canada into the hands of evil global radical capitalists who’ve brainwashed their hickabilly constituents into thinking that it is the interests of the farmer and mom-and-pop small business owners who voted for them that those spawns of Lucifer are talking about when they say, “business will be good after we take over”, without mentioning whose business they’re talking about.
It’s not yet clear if the Canadian Conservative party is evil or stupid… ever noticed how, in terms of results, it’s very difficult to tell the difference between evil and stupid?
In any case… Toews is when you wake up horny in the morning, and do anal sex with your significant other, but their bowels are not evacuated, and further, it’s not solidified.
You have sex, but the results are not a typical saffron-on-the-dick… it’s little spits of black goo on your belly, and on the sheets, and on the inside of the cheeks of the ass of the other.
That anal liquid tar that you shower off, and which you change the sheets for, and which the other is embarrassed about, is called Toews.
@ 71, 117, 123, 190, 194, 198… Same person
I have contacted you through Alt , recognized the picture and the issues you brought up, and am still awaiting your reply. I go by two words combined as one, best described for short as LB.
As for pornography, ironically 80’s pornography contained much more cunnilingus than it does today, even though supposedly we are now more enlightened and more sensitive to equality issues. And back then both man and women didn’t have to adhere to the “hairless look” of today, meaning it could have come across as less “appealing” than today’s featherless chicken look.
While I think that labeling men who wouldn’t eat their women as “gay” can be a somewhat-superficial-definition, you came around and acknowledged that yourself later on.
Oh, and I think you’re quite cool for having a Playgirl subscription earlier in your life, not to mention being open about it with your friends.
Would love to communicate with you even if it doesn’t lead to peeling off some layers and exchanging body fluids.
I don’t enjoy oral sex, not because of smell, cleanliness, etc, but because I find mouths to be disgusting. I’d rather have another vagina all over mine than somebody’s mouth.
@201..uhhh..oh..you might have to write me again. 😉 Yes I’ve been helping my fellow female friends break down some barriers. I’ve always felt like I have a male brain and yet dress and act the part of female and happen to like men. Something to do with having brothers, all their friends and very alpha dad and beaver cleaver mother. Then again us Gemini’s can have gender issues. lol! But one thing I discovered about A LOT (not all…being very careful here)of women is that they don’t like to be shocked by their own desires. My friends have found my antics very amusing, but they’ve also learned a lot about themselves I think, and OPENED THEIR MINDS.
@148- I agree. It’s already annoying enough to endure some of these chucklehead comments to endure those cryptic/ “our secret joke” bs in this section.
Dan, I think you got the first letter completely wrong. Even when an affair is purely sexual, the chemistry makes you think about the person and talk to them more often than you think you are doing. She can’t really give her husband the attention he needs while she’s involved with someone else. You said yourself that 6 months is not that long to wait. She should just cut off ties to her lover and focus on her husband and her kids right now.
Regarding going down on pussy, the last lover i had was totally amazed at my pussy and told me that i had a “playboy pussy” and a “pretty pussy”, he loved the way it looked, and he helped trim me too, which was very sensual. But when he went down on me, he was rough and tried too hard, licked too hard, pushed too hard, etc. I had to educate him, even though he has had a fair share of pussy in his day. He told me that i am the most sensitive woman he has ever known, but i knew it was due to the fact that he’d seen a few too many porn flix where the pussy is man-handled and over-zealously licked, pounded, tugged, pulled, yanked, and basically brutalized. He thought this was what it took to make a gal orgasm. It was fun re-educating him, and all worked out well. My point here is that i believe most men have been sullied by bad porn. My own view of porn (and i’ve seen a lot) is that there are lots of ugly pussies out there, used-up, gungy looking, frayed edges, flapping, off-coloured, gaping, gnarly looking pussy… but, to each his own. And a good, hot, sudsy shower should always come before oral sex, no matter what.
Perfection. I can’t believe the girl not getting any hasn’t dumped his long ago…
Can you IMAGINE if women were as specific about cock as men are about pussy?
SORRY your cock isn’t mushroom shaped enough. It also has a slight bend. What is with this purple vein???? EW, what’s WRONG with YOU??!?? This isn’t a porn cock AT ALL!!
#1: Girls do NOT smell or taste “bad” down there unless they haven’t showered of taken a 5 mile run. Same goes for guys. I Have been with my fair of squeamish gents and my response is always, “well if you want
me to give oral, i wholheartedly believe that reciprocation is always in order. I have still yet to understand why fellatio is something which guys generally expect, but something that many of them treat as only a “special occasion” event for us gals. LAME!!!
Speaking of which, I had an interesting discussion with one of my straight friends the other day. He admitted that he would never, ever taste or, god forbid, swallow his own come. My rejoinder was that hey, you expect women and non-hetero men to do that, so why the fuck are you not willing to try to get down to the nitty-gritty yourself with gals on a regular basis? He admitted the truth of train of my logic. still doubt he’d do it, but at least it’s food for thought. What is up with men’s sqeamishmess over their delightful boy secretions?? I’m not squeamish about my own
Unless you’re in an abusive relationship or 14-years-old, sorry, you get no sympathy for staying with a guy who won’t reciprocate when it comes to oral sex. He’s a douche, an asshole and possibly gay (or at the very least has some issues with real-life women), but you’re an idiot. Stop treating this like some sort of problem without a clear solution. DTMFA or at the very least STOP SUCKING HIS DICK!!!
out of all my bloke mates, i only know one who doesnt like going down on girls. funnily enough he’s also slept with the most out of all the people i know. i dont think he likes women too much to be honest, says he barely likes touching them when he ‘fucks’ them. maybe he’ll come out as gay one day…who knows?
basically if the thought of getting fully involved with your ladys sweet juicy fanny (british fanny not yank fanny – not really into eating that too much) doesnt enter your head at least 20 times a day then you’re probably gonna have to sit down and start asking yourself some serious questions
Amen, no. 1. Pussy rocks.
@211 & 212…NICE!!! Okay we’ll end on that note! 🙂
Yep- Prudie’s answer sucked.
you missed the “so” before the “be it resolved”
I had a boyfriend once who wouldn’t go down on me because he thought it was a turn-off. He, however, was 100% absolutely supportive of ME giving HIM head and often would praise me for giving the best head he’d ever had in his life. This, of course, led to him getting even more head. I stuck it out for a YEAR with this douche! A YEAR! (I shake my head.)
When I finally snapped and ran for the hills, I almost immediately called up an old “friend” to help me out. The sense of relief that came over me at his enthusiasm for giving me head and the absolute earth-shattering, mind-altering multiple orgasms that quickly followed changed the very core of my phsyche in an instant. Or maybe it was five instants, I can’t recall. I will never, NEVER! EVER! put up with anything even remotely akin to my pent-up ex-lover’s hangup about cunnilingus.
I mean, seriously, why would you date someone who thinks of your genitals with DISTASTE? Fuck that! Or better yet, DON’T.
I am a Canadian who hasn’t voted for a ‘Conservative’ for twenty years. I’d be ashamed of twenty years ago, except our ‘Conservative’ party was then only ‘fiscally conservative’, and supported equality under the law of men and women, straights and homosexuals.
Like ‘santorum’ (brilliantly played), ‘Toews’ should refer to something familiar to people of all sexual preferences, and unpleasant to most. It has to be something all genders produce, and like ‘santorum’ embarrassing for the ‘catcher’, and off-putting for the ‘pitcher’. ‘Toews’: pubic hair in the back of the throat that can’t be removed without coughing like a cat with a hairball.
Signed: ‘god always commands kemptness’
Unfortunately, Toews is also the name of a famous hockey player, so I really don’t think you’re going to get anywhere with that.
Nevermind the fact that politicians with run-of-the-mill affairs like this are a dime a dozen, and minority governments like the one we have now are typically aged in days, not years (unlike the one we have now). I suspect Toews will be without a job in politics in short order anyway.
I used to be in a relationship years ago with a man who refused to give oral. He was OCD about certain things.. and somewhere down the line he got it in his head that vaginas are not a sanitary place, even right after a shower and refused to let his mouth venture “down there”. To be fair, his own parts grossed him out as well.
I don’t think that makes him a fag.
He found a partner now that hates to give head, so they’re both happy with the arrangement of never doing or having pressure to perform oral sex.
Why I have a hard time receiving oral sex (@177 and everyone else who “can’t fathom how a woman could dislike her lover going down on her”:
-yes, bad body image (@179). I have a hard time looking down at my body. I have a hard time looking down at my lover when he is between my legs, because I know he is able to look up and have a full view of my body. Then I tense up and experience oral sex as trauma instead of pleasure. I can get past this, but it takes work.
-fear that it smells/is ugly/etc. Do you remember the plethora of “rotten fish” jokes that boys make in middle school? Jokes that they’ve picked up from lousy “macho” movies & etc? Even once you grow up and realize that the guys making those jokes are just insecure, it is hard to forget that early fear. It takes work.
-not believing that it is feminine to request, assert or demand what you want in bed. Holding the (misguided) belief that women are supposed to meet the needs of others, not have their own needs met. You can get over this, and it takes work.
-lack of self-confidence. I have had to develop a strong sense of self to be able to enjoy receiving pleasure. Five years ago the idea of a guy going down on me was a turn-off because I couldn’t believe that he would actually enjoy it. Note that I dated some great guys who earnestly tried to convince me otherwise. But no one else will ever convince you of your own self-worth. You have to do that for yourself. It takes a lot of work!
Anyway – these are just a few of the many ways psychological issues have prevented me from enjoying oral sex. Even though the behavior of NOT’s bf is what I used to fear, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe there are deep-seated psychological hang-ups at the core of his fear of eating pussy. Or maybe he’s just a selfish jerk. Either way, NOT shouldn’t hesitate to move on if she desires oral sex and he’s not willing to go there. It’s not up to her to fix his issues, but she needs to make sure her own needs are met.
Cancer sucks ass.
#206 Well aren’t you the lucky one having a perfect little pussy?!! That kind of attitude against your fellow women is partly what leads young women to have their delicate bits surgically “tidied” for purely cosmetic reasons. Wrong wrong wrong. Pussies come in all shapes and sizes and their beauty is IN their function as much as appearance (which being a rug muncher I rather like!). And no, I’ve not come across one yet that I’d not want to lick.
Hello from Quebec! nice post as usual, but I just wanted to tell you that ”the shit in French on breakfast-cereal boxes” ain’t filthy at all… Province of Quebec has a French Speaking majority, and if no one makes English Canadians shit with our ‘filthy’ language, well, we’ll disappear within a few decades, I’d say. We get enough shit for being french speakers already… so drop it.
Thanks for understanding – otherwise, I really love your column, Dan, keep up the good work!
To be far, as far as right-wing homophobes go, Harper’s far from the worst. In fact, there’s almost something a little bit noble about recognizing that the Canadian people wanted and deserved gay marriage even though it went against his own believes. And he’s not always dismissing parliament, people just have a short-term memory about how many times leaders past have done it.
Also, to the girlfriend of the fag who doesn’t like the sight or taste of pussy,if she’s intent on hanging onto him for his taste in clothing or his health insurance (you guys still don’t have that? Weird), she ought to blindfold him and use an oral damn of some variety. I hear they make them in flavours so he can get one in Gay Grape or something.
I would have to add a note of caution for No Good Acronym. Honey – this is gonna be bad. You’re gonna be a mess, and you’re gonna be alone with a grieving child. I would suggest NOT seeing the lover for a while – including a while after your husband passes. You won’t intend to, and you’ll feel awful about it later, but you will almost certainly cleave to your lover for comfort and it will cause both of you pain and complications in violation of your agreement. It’s only natural – but it could cause you more problems than it solves. Get a good vibrator and spend the time preparing yourself and your child, and healing afterwards. You and your lover will be glad you did. All the best wishes in the coming months.
Vic Toews wasn’t big news in Canada, because political sex scandals don’t sell… The papers could write and write on it, and nobody would care. We’d rather hear about Angie and Brad, I suppose. Canadian politicians aren’t sexy.
@222… i got off track there with what i was trying to say in my post #206, but when i talked about ugly pussies it was totally in regards to rotten porn. I apologize to have offended you. I guess i was only trying to make a correlation between guys who think pussy is ugly or unsightly, and perhaps it’s because they have watched bad porn and think that all pussy is …how did i describe it?… used-up, gungy looking, frayed edges, flapping, off-coloured, gaping, gnarly looking pussy. I was not saying ALL pussy is like this, and in fact, when i saw this kind of porn, i was kinda shocked – didn’t know there were ugly pussies out there like that. That being said, all cocks are not created equal either, and although there is a “gold standard” when it comes to porn cock, there doesn’t seem to be that same standard when it comes to porn pussy. It leaves one wondering why. My point here is that guys who take licking and fingering notes from porn are perhaps getting the wrong message…
Toews:The act of boring a new hole in a human being solely for fucking it with your penis.3 ways to use toews.1 Allan toews more than he should.2 I am going to toew that fucker! Forget about Meisja’s mouth,vag and ass.I toewed her!
VIc Toews: verb. A verbal barrage of obscene insults hurled at a lover involuntarily at the height of passion.
Problem: Toews is a surname shared by perfectly upstanding Canadians, such as writer Miriam Toews and hockey player Jonathan Toews, neither of whom deserve the Rick Santorum treatment. Please find a way to put Vic Toews’ bullshit on blast without hurting other people who share what is apparently a relatively common surname in Canada. (Compared to Santorum in the US, anyway.)
@ 91 – Do you have this guy’s number?
@ 117 – I STILL think you made some valid points. In fact, MOST of your words were valid and anyone who doesn’t see that hasn’t a clue. They just took the intensity of what you wrote and made it “personal.”
@ 191 – You wrote: “LOL’d on public transit…just broke up with ‘fag’ who wouldn’t go down on me. That wasn’t ‘thee’ reason but going on 3 mos and he never gave it a whirl? We’d had the safe sex talk, etc. When I asked him why his response was “didn’t know it was ‘on the menu'” – wtf is that?!”
“on the menu? Wtf is that?” Er, the only time I’ve heard that reference was on an episode of Sex in the City where Samantha talks about a sex act being “on the menu.”
Yep, you were right to dump him. The times that he wasn’t busy having you suck his dick with his eyes closed whilst he imagined a guy doing it, he was chilled out in front of the Sex in the City box set….