I’m a straight male college student in a relationship, which had been going great. The only incongruity was that, for a religious reason, I don’t want to have penetrative vaginal sex before marriage. I’m up for anything else—I would eat her out, piss on her, whatever else—but not vaginal sex. I made this clear at the beginning. My girlfriend started bringing up how she wanted to have “actual” sex. I told her, “I love you, and if you need to fuck other guys, go for it.” To my relief, she was offended by the suggestion.
A week later, she confessed that she had slept with someone. I feel like I can’t trust her now, and I can’t bring myself to sleep in her bed anymore. I feel like a hypocrite, since I brought up the idea of her sleeping with someone else in the first place. But I was unprepared for the reality, since she berated me for making the proposal at all. Still, I told her to do this. She regrets the hookup. I don’t know if I’m even asking for advice. I just wonder if I’m acting childishly.
Wishing Ancillary Fucking Felt Less Emotionally Ruinous
Your dilemma is interesting, WAFFLER, but you know what I’m more interested in? I’d really be interested in finding out which particular faith tradition frowns on penetrative vaginal intercourse before marriage but smiles on eating pussy and piss scenes and okays women having vaginal intercourse before marriage so long as they’re having it with guys they don’t intend to marry. That sounds like a church I’d like to visit. Hell, that sounds like a church I should be tithing to.
Look, WAFFLER, doing everything-but-sticking-your-dick-in for religious reasons is deeply silly. If you’re going to be in a sexual relationship, be in a sexual relationship. I promise you that any God who frowns on fucking-pussy-before-marriage also frowns on piss-play-before-marriage and eating-pussy-before-marriage.
As for your dilemma, WAFFLER, either you need to find a girlfriend who wants what you want—or doesn’t want what you don’t want—or you need to stop playing bullshit games and start fucking the girl you’ve got.
To say that I have recently been bored at work is a gross understatement. I have turned it into an opportunity to read all the archived Savage Love columns I can find on the internet, which has led me to three questions:
1. Your advice has always been sassy and matter-of-fact, but it seems to me that your advice is becoming less acidic as time passes. How has your attitude toward the sex-advice business changed over the years?
2. Why don’t women brag about their clit size?
3. Are you still into Ashton Kutcher or do you have a new fantasy flame?
Your Devoted Reader
1. I get a lot of mail from people telling me I’ve changed. Half write to tell me that I’ve become an insufferably bitchy sacky twatty cunt prick, and half tell me I’ve gone soft, I’m too nice, I’ve lost my edge, etc. Not sure what to make of that.
2. Clits aren’t inserted into anything—not typically—so a big clit doesn’t earn a woman any bragging rights. And a small clit, harder to locate and harder to stimulate, is nothing to brag about either. And while the clit—all of it, not just the exposed part—is central to a woman’s sexual pleasure, it’s not the showiest part of a woman’s package. That would be the labia. And it’s not the part a man is most interested in. That would be the vagina. So while the clit is hugely important to her, it’s not necessarily all that important to him.
3. I still admire Ashton Kutcher’s work ethic—the man is an acting, producing, tweeting machine—but my crush on Ashton evaporated halfway through the first episode of Punk’d. My current celebrity crush is Bill Hader as Stefon on SNL‘s “Weekend Update.”
I have recently started dating a sexually adventurous man. He is the first person to successfully fist me, and it’s fantastic. When I orgasm, I squirt. Lots. Afterward, the sheets are soaked and I’m in a puddle. We’ve put towels down, but the sheer volume of liquid soaks through them. Without towels, it soaks all the way through to the mattress. I’m not super-pleased about ruining my mattress, and the postcoital sleeping on very wet sheets is not ideal.
I don’t really want to sleep on a plastic-wrapped mattress and change my sheets every time we have sex. Does anything exist that’s super-absorbent that I could put down during sex, or even something that might go under the sheets to at least protect the bed?
Wasting Endless Towels
The bed is a nice place to sleep, a good place to read, and an obvious place to fuck. But you can have sex elsewhere, WET, and you can acquire just-for-fucking furniture/furnishings without going to hell with the vaginal-before-marriage crowd. Go to a sporting-goods store and pick up a large, folding wrestling mat. Store it under the bed, WET, and when your sexy time involves fisting—and hopefully you’re not fisting every time you have sex—GET OUT OF BED, pull the mat out, throw some towels down, and fist and squirt to your heart’s content. Then when it is all over—all over the towels, the mat, the floor—you’ll be able to crawl back into your warm, dry, comfortable bed.
HEY, EVERYBODY: Jason Robinson is—was—the football coach at Mandarin High School in Duval County, Florida. He was fired last month for sending “adult-oriented pictures” to a student. Robinson didn’t send the pictures to one of his students, but to a 20-year-old college student who is his girlfriend. The mother of Robinson’s girlfriend found the pictures on her daughter’s phone and forwarded them to the principal of the school where Robinson worked and scores of other people.
“We hold our teachers to a higher standard,” principal Donna Richardson told reporters. “They’re in front of our students. They’re talking with our students. They’re teaching our students how to become good characters.”
This is sex-negative bullshit. Robinson is a consenting adult; Robinson’s girlfriend is a consenting adult. And what consenting adults do on their own time—and with their own cell phones—is no one’s business but their own.
Savage Love readers stuck up for Constance McMillen after she was victimized by the homophobic morons who run her high school. Now we need to stick up for a straight high-school coach being victimized by the sexphobic morons who run his. Send an e-mail to Donna Richardson at richardsod@duvalschools.org. Let Richardson know that she is in the wrong. And let others know to let her know.
AND: Apparently, Steve Jobs isn’t such a prude after all. The Savage Love iPhone app is now available on the iTunes store.
I hope that doesn’t mean the death of independent newspapers! We all pick em up cuz Sr. Savage is in them. On the other hand, I can now ride the bus without trying to hide the escort ads while reading Savage Love.
Waffle indeed.
I’m kind of surprised you didn’t mention the Liberator Fascinator sheets re: the squirting. I have not used them myself, but I’ve heard great things about them. Apparently they’re comfortable, and still provide a complete water (or other liquid) barrier.
P.S. Clits are important to guys, well the egalitarian fun guys I like, it’s the viz. they don’t worry about (too busy thinkin bout their own packages. Zing!)
WET: How about a tarp? 😛
Waffler is just a fucked up prick. What a tool. I take pleasure in the fact that she stepped out and now he’s messed up about it. Oh, yeah. I sent my email to Ms. Richardson. She’ll probably never see it but it felt good sending it.
Similarly baffled by the “religious reason” cited in the first letter. Perhaps the writer feels he needs to practice some token abstinence as a sacrificial gesture to his God and has decided, arbitrarily, that vaginal sex before marriage will be the thing. Sort of like giving up chocolate for Lent.
He was fired for sending “adult” pictures to his 20 year old girlfriend? And, what the fuck was the mother doing snooping around a 20 year old’s phone anyway?
Remind me to avoid Duval County whilst traveling through Florida…
Someone needs to send the Shamwow guy over to WET’s house … You’ll say ‘wow’ every time…
Actually, there are plenty of products out there that would protect your mattress. “Protect-A-Bed” has a waterproof cotton mattress pad that is billed as NOT having that plastic-sheet-crinkle to it.
Otherwise, like Dan said: get out of bed.
@7 That could so easily be my mother (I’m 23). There’s a reason why I wipe my browsing history, put all naked pics/porn on an external hard drive, and purge my phone whenever I see my parents. Even if they never get near my laptop or my phone, I’m not going to risk it.
Though, to her credit, my mom would just yell and cry at me, and leave my boyfriend alone. Though she would try to make me break-up with him and hate him forever.
To WET: We have the perfect solution! Two years ago my boyfriend got me a hilarious gift that quickly turned into our most used sex prop: Absorbent reusable pee pads! http://www.amazon.com/UltraSoft-4-Ply-Qu…
Trust me, they work. They can take SO much of my squirting and even period sex and clean right up and never stain. We just throw one of these pads down wherever we are and it saves our bed and other furniture from getting soaked. We even travel with ours sometimes so we can have easy to clean sex anywhere we go without leaving behind dirty sheets for hosts to wash. I can’t say enough good things about these pads. We have 2 and you can even dry it out in between uses and use it a few times before washing if you want.
Um, about the I-love-you-please-wash-your-vag podcast: did anyone mention it could be what she was eating? I mean, a guy’s diet can make cum taste “stronger” and Dan’s edumacated us about womens’ plumbing being analogous to mens’, so it seems obvious to me.
Ok, about the coach, I’m going to play the Devil’s Advocate here. Will I get flamed? Maybe…
Everyone who works knows that what your employer could catch heat from their clients or community about, is a no-no. This is why facebook profiles are private. Sexting is apparently a huge problem with high school kids. Why? Beause it ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS blows up. Someone freakin’ ALWAYS sends the photos around. It’s A+B=C, here. Anybody out there work with young students? You know how hard it is to talk sense to them with all the leotarded crap their so-called role models in the media make look so freaking attractive? We don’t need the coach doing this kind of stupid stuff, and doing it without enough discretion not to get caught. {For example, if the girl still lives with Mom, and has her college paid for by Mom, she may be technically an adult, but not for all practical purposes.} I imagine lots of people would get fired for something like this. Hell, if I were the administration, I’d get rid of this guy just to avoid the snickers in the hall.
Dan’s just mad because he sees it as trampling sexual freedom. Take the sex out of it, and let’s say the guy got caught with his 20-year-old girlfriend at the street races. Let’s say they got caught trying to buy dope. Or ended up in a raid at a scuzzy swingers club. I’d say the same, damn thing. Those are risky things to do- hell, the risk is part of the attraction, for crying out loud- and the freedom to do them comes with the responsibility to take the heat if your silly enough to get caught. So I say suck it up and hit the road, coach.
, about the coach, I’m going to play the Devil’s Advocate here. Will I get flamed? Maybe…
Everyone who works knows that what your employer could catch heat from their clients or community about, is a no-no. This is why facebook profiles are private. Sexting is apparently a huge problem with high school kids. Why? Beause it ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS blows up. Someone freakin’ ALWAYS sends the photos around. It’s A+B=C, here. Anybody out there work with young students? You know how hard it is to talk sense to them with all the leotarded crap their so-called role models in the media make look so freaking attractive? We don’t need the coach doing this kind of stupid stuff, and doing it without enough discretion not to get caught. {For example, if the girl still lives with Mom, and has her college paid for by Mom, she may be technically an adult, but not for all practical purposes.} I imagine lots of people would get fired for something like this. Hell, if I were the administration, I’d get rid of this guy just to avoid the snickers in the hall.
Dan’s just mad because he sees it as trampling sexual freedom. Take the sex out of it, and let’s say the guy got caught with his 20-year-old girlfriend at the street races. Let’s say they got caught trying to buy dope. Or ended up in a raid at a scuzzy swingers club. I’d say the same, damn thing. Those are risky things to do- hell, the risk is part of the attraction, for crying out loud- and the freedom to do them comes with the responsibility to take the heat if your silly enough to get caught. So I say suck it up and hit the road, coach.
I registered, dangit, show my comments!
Ok, about the coach, I’m going to play the Devil’s Advocate here. Will I get flamed? Maybe…
Everyone who works knows that what your employer could catch heat from their clients or community about, is a no-no. This is why facebook profiles are private. Sexting is apparently a huge problem with high school kids. Why? Beause it ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS blows up. Someone freakin’ ALWAYS sends the photos around. It’s A+B=C, here. Anybody out there work with young students? You know how hard it is to talk sense to them with all the leotarded crap their so-called role models in the media make look so freaking attractive? We don’t need the coach doing this kind of stupid stuff, and doing it without enough discretion not to get caught. {For example, if the girl still lives with Mom, and has her college paid for by Mom, she may be technically an adult, but not for all practical purposes.} I imagine lots of people would get fired for something like this. Hell, if I were the administration, I’d get rid of this guy just to avoid the snickers in the hall.
Dan’s just mad because he sees it as trampling sexual freedom. Take the sex out of it, and let’s say the guy got caught with his 20-year-old girlfriend at the street races. Let’s say they got caught trying to buy dope. Or ended up in a raid at a scuzzy swingers club. I’d say the same, damn thing. Those are risky things to do- hell, the risk is part of the attraction, for crying out loud- and the freedom to do them comes with the responsibility to take the heat if your silly enough to get caught. So I say suck it up and hit the road, coach.
WET needs to look into Chux (disposable underpads). Expensive, though, depending on how often they need ’em.
@10 Pee pads are an interesting idea (though drying them out without washing between uses? Ewwww).
A very simple, cheap solution is your everyday bath-mat. Specifically one with a rubber backing, the plusher the better. It’s absorbent, soft, blocks liquid from leaking through, and easily explained as home decor by the side of the bed.
KS, Re #10:
Bless you bless you bless you! I am ordering mine right now!!! A MUCH better answer than Dan’s BTW.
One does never stops getting appalled witnessing to what extent religious dogma can twist people´s minds… up to the point of seeing one of the most “immoral” courses of action in their scale, as a solution to their dilemmas. Hopefully WAFFLER will make love to his girlfriend, and hopefully he will not feel guilty for that…
in most countries, ie not the United States, sending “adult” pictures to his 20 year old girlfriend would not be an issue ventilated at work.
You had me at Stefon, Dan. LOVE HIM.
Anyone as irrational as Waffler doesn’t sound like stable boyfriend material in the first place. As far as men go, I can tell you, they only get more uptight as they get older (my experience, anyway) so starting with, say, Jack Johnson would be how I would go if I were young.
Dan, you had a baby, surely you had one of those changing pad mats? In the hospital when you have a baby, they have something similar, but a bit bigger, a nice flannel pad with a waterproof backing, easy to wash, available at those “medical” type pharmacies, it would work well for WET.
Bill Hader, really? I thought the celebrity crush was always supposed to be cuter than the real significant other? Isn’t that why it’s a fantasy?
Solid advice, as usual. @10 – I had no idea such a thing as “pee pads” existed, but they sound kind of awesome even just for regular (wet, sweaty) sex.
The coach situation is beyond ridiculous. I almost wonder if the ACLU would be interested in the case – I mean, the school (presumably a public school?) fired him for something completely within his rights as a private adult human being, and he did nothing irresponsible that would have resulted in those pictures being made public anyway. If anyone should be penalized in this case, it’s the weirdo mom who thought it would be okay to circulate naught pictures without consent.
Anyway, I consider “consensual, adult-only, naughty-picture-taking” to be a civil liberty, and it’s idiotic that it’s apparently considered grounds for firing in some areas.
I second the liberator fascinator throes. My wife and I wound up in an unfortunate moving situation…. 2 babies in a 2 br apartment for 9 months waiting for our house to close. We had one kid permanently in our bedroom and could only get it on when they were both napping.
We found the liberator to be great, best toy we ever bought, as we could throw down on the couch, the floor, the bed, the car in the garage, whenever the kids both managed to pass out.
Now that we’ve moved, we use it all the time just because it’s completely eliminated the argument over who’s sleeping in the wet spot! And we don’t have to change the sheets after sex, which, with two babies, is a big deal… since you practically don’t have time to have sex, you certainly don’t have the time to change the sheets! The throw can go right in the wash without a sheet changing pain in the butt.
Regarding the squirting and the soaked bed. I have found hospital bed underpads which I get cheap marketed as whelping pads to be great. They was up nice, and hold a TON of liquid, and are sheet like on the top.
clits ARE SO important to guys (and girls too I am certain). Almost nothing turns me on more than a big, hard, clit – bigger the better.
WAFFLER has made a mistake (by saying “go ahead and have sex with some other guy”) and is paying for it. However, his girlfriend will pay and pay and pay: she “regrets” the fling with the other guy, she still doesn’t get to have actual sex with the guy she loves, and now — for “religious reasons” — she’ll probably be made to feel guilty and inferior for the rest of her life if she stays with him. Ugh. And it’s often true: men can get more and more conservative as they get older (that’s been my experience), and by the time this guy is 40 (and still not married) he’ll be furious that whoever he’s dating has had ANY kind of a sexual past.
I’d like to suggest the squirter just use a bathmat–super absorbent, rubber lined on the bottom, machine-washable, can be used on the bed, easier than a wrestling mat to store. I know she doesn’t want to change the sheets, but if they’ve already tried emptying the towel cupboard to control the chaos, I’ll assume she’s not opposed to some extra laundry.
Ah, to WET:
I’ve had a similar problem, except that there’s that much squirting every single time I have sex (well, assuming it’s good sex, anyway). I made the decision long ago that my bed is for sleeping. I have 2 yoga mats that I can roll out if need be — but for the most part, it’s more fun when you aren’t confined to your bed, anyway. It forces the guy to get more creative. You learn new ways of being flexible on various pieces of furniture. And the best part? Amazing sex plus a dry bed!
Actually, there *are* things to put down for children that wet the bed, people who spill their drinks commonly, and those who squirt in mass quantity. Go to a store where you buy mattresses, and ask about a waterproof cover. I have one that goes between the sheets and the mattress that protects the top of the bed due to a cat that thought my bed was her litter box. They’re well worth the cost [$20-30 max], and will be much more pleasant than a wrestling mat or plastic sheeting… Although, you may still want to place down some absorbent material.
But god SPECIFICALLY said “Thou shalt not have penetrative vaginal sex until thou art married!”
It’s in the bible! I know I read it… I can’t remember where though. Uh… I think it’s somewhere in the back…
Bill Hader as Stefon is AMAZING. Sunburned drifters with soap sud beards? You know that thing when a hobo becomes a rich man and takes the big BUBBLE BATH …
I am a little disappointed on your advice today to WAFFLER! Sure, it’s godawful stupid to not have vaginal sex for religious reasons when you’re okay with every other kind of sex. Unless your religion is against vaginas or something. And I’m sure any religious expert would say that WAFFLER is missing the point completely.
But the fact is, he told her upfront that he wasn’t going to stick it in her. She went into this relationship knowing his limits. Would this be different if he had a disability that made it difficult and painful to stick it in her, or if he was very kinky and super uncomfortable with vanilla sex of any kind? I don’t think you should need a “valid” reason to not engage in a sex act with somebody– once you start saying what’s not a good enough reason not to do something, that opens up a whole can of worms for consent issues.
That said, he totally dropped the ball on opening up his relationship. If he didn’t want her fucking anybody else, he shouldn’t have changed the rules to make that okay. If having premarital vaginal sex is a dealbreaker issue for her, then she can leave. But he shouldn’t have said “go ahead and fuck other people” just to keep her from leaving, when her fucking other people is a dealbreaker issue for HIM.
I think that you blew it with your response to Waffler. The guy is dealing with his sexual orientation. He is willing to do a lot of things except stick his penis in the lady! You got it right in your comments about his created personal religion of one? I am old fashion and intercourse seems to be the most natural sexual activity of a man and woman. Maybe I am too old fashioned but I am more than willing to avoid some of the other stuff that he is willing to do. I would consider the alternate activities to be degrading. Is he willing to do the other stuff as punishment?
Both the lady and Waffler need to take a clear look at this situation. For her, or any woman, it will be marriage to a guy who is not really into sex with a woman. If he goes through with the marriage he will be miserable and may likely never consumated the marriage.
He should be honest with himself and, most of all, decent enough to not put his desire to be transformed into a heterosexual above the well being of the woman who unknowningly becomes his wife. The misery will affect all in the family. The parents must be happy to create a happy home for their children. The sham will result in a lot of seemily unconnected problems and conficts.
I am surprised that you did not realize that Waffler is hiding his sexual orientation behind religion. Has he given any thought about what is expected of him on the wedding night? Maybe he’ll get a wedding day headache that will last as long as the marriage – which, for the sake of the lady and him, should last only a few days if not hours.
Maybe I am a weak guy but I would find it hard to sleep with a lady and not go all the way. If I were religious enough to not go all the way I would be more than religious enough to feel that sleeping together is wrong.
The hospital pads are called “chucks” (or sometimes “chux”) and are available in various sizes up to 2×3′.
The hospital pads are called “chucks” (or “chux”) and are available in various sizes up to 2×3′.
Just out of curiosity, do we have any way of knowing for certain what WET’s gender is?
Washable bed pads are great for use at home but can be a pain when you travel. For that, I suggest the disposable pads. They’re not quite as comfortable as the quilted cotton-backed ones, but they’re not bad, plus they’re lightweight and cheap. Just make sure you get the large pads (the ones that can be tucked under the mattress) because their plastic backing gives them a tendency to slip around.
Try one of those backpacking towels, and get a really really large one. They are REALLY REALLY absorbent, and I think a lot less abrasive than some of those really really absorbent materials for spills. And if one doesn’t work, then try two large backpacking towels. I can’t see much of anything getting through those. REI should have them.
Answer the damn question, Dan.
Your Devoted Reader asked how your attitude toward the sex-advice business has changed over the years. Not how your readers perceive that change.
If you’re going to print questions that call for an act of sincere introspection on your part, have the courage to comply.
You are not your readers.
Which is why we love you. Get busy, bitch.
Another potential solution for the squirter: dog training pads. Seriously – they worked for a friend.
Wayne at @37:
‘Squirting’ is a very common term for female ejaculation. It’s pretty clear WET is a woman.
@ 37 – do men squirt when they’re fisted? Not trying to be a jerk with that question – do they? If so . . . I’m thinking just a pee mat won’t help!
Hooray for time traveling posts sent to us from the future!
It won’t help with the wet sheets but to protect the bed there are some really good waterproof mattress pads. I’ve got one on my bed (ex was a major squirter) and I can’t tell the difference when lying on the waterproof pad vs the non-waterproof. In fact, she could even keep it next to the bed then toss it down on top of the sheets to keep them dry too. It would only take a second to spread it and another second to roll it up and toss it off.
Waffler – Seriously? Just… seriously? SERIOUSLY?
This has got to be the most offshoot of saddlebacking I’ve ever seen. And this guy reads Dan Savage?
I don’t get the hostility toward WAFFLER’S line-drawing religion. It looks to me that the “go ahead and do it with somebody else” was NOT a dogmatically-approved exception, but rather either a test, or a declaration that he’s not holding her to HIS doctrinal beliefs.
As for lines, oral and water sports don’t make babies, so it’s a very pragmatic line to draw. Actually, it’s not too far off the Jewish position, ignoring all the squicky-ness about monthly cycles and foreskins.
Was anybody else struck by the brilliant coincidence of the coach’s name? Here’s to you, Mr. Robinson . . .
“(I’m 23)….Though, to her credit, my mom would just yell and cry at me, and leave my boyfriend alone. Though she would try to make me break-up with him and hate him forever.”
23?! Jesus, do you guys want to be kids forever or something? If my parents had done that when I was 23, I would have icily told them no one—no. one.—has that right.
Tell your mom to STFU or you will leave for a looooong time next time she dares open her yob after violating your privacy. Your mom needs help understanding boundaries. She helped you learn such things when you were 6. Return the favor now that you are 23.
Oh, and Allison, that shit you cite (drugs, racing, clubs that can be raided by polic) is all ILLEGAL and PUBLIC ACTIVITIES. Adults sharing naughty pics which are then stolen by a third party (the mom)? NOT ILLEGAL and PRIVATE. Big fucking difference between illegal public activities and legal private ones. If you don’t understand that, well, you are a dumbfuck.
The victim here is the fired party, whose privacy was violated and his junk shared with people he did not intend.
I hope the mom is prosecuted and sued, sued, sued for her cuntishness. And then sued again.
Whats with the close-minded attitude towards religious sexual taboos? Every religion has all kinds of taboos, and not JUST religions. Cultures have taboos. Its complicated and ultimately personal. He didn’t say anything about morality, he’s trying very hard not to force his lifestyle on his girl, and he apparently reads and trusts Savage Love so he can’t be too much of a close-minded asshole. Although, you are all looking like close-minded assholes at the moment. I see mentions of the bible and hell here – whatever made you think he is a Christian (or Jew)? Wake up and smell the hypocrisy.
@49, you got to it before I could. Allison is totally missing the point when she cites illegal behavior as her comparison. Also, if the school wants to fire him because of this, shouldn’t they be checking out ALL their teachers’ sex lives? I’m sure there’s plenty that’s more hardcore and “immoral” than a few naked pictures.
And @40, Dan DID answer the question. He stated that he’d gotten a lot more sympathetic towards straight guys, but that otherwise his positions hadn’t changed.