My husband and I have had an open marriage for the last two years. Up until five months ago, it was working beautifully. At that point, however, I was sexually assaulted by a former partner. Since that incident, I cannot stand sex with my husband. I completely flip out when he tries to initiate sexual contact. My skin crawls. I become panicked and feel repulsed. I just cannot handle it. Those times when I go along with it anyway leave me feeling enraged and disgusted.
I don’t think this is completely unheard of for someone who was relatively recently assaulted, and I am considering therapy to help me work through it. The immediate “problem” is that I have no difficulty having sex with my boyfriend. In fact, the sex with him is amazing and leaves me feeling loved and whole and wonderful.
This is breaking my husband’s heart. He has become incredibly jealous of my relationship with my boyfriend. He’s depressed. He’s angry. He accuses me of no longer loving him, and he wants me to stop sleeping with my boyfriend until our marriage is back to normal. I feel like a horrible person, but I just can’t do that. I need that outlet. I need that support. And I admit I have a hard time believing that my husband and I will ever be able to go back to the way things were before.
I feel like I’ve already lost my former partner (fucked-up though that may seem) and my husband. It kills me to think about cutting out the one positive relationship remaining. On the other hand, I do love my husband—very much—and watching him suffer like this is unbearable.
Potentially Traumatized Sexual Deviant
I’m sorry that you were sexually assaulted—that’s awful, PTSD, and I hope you went to the police and I hope you’re pressing charges. But I also hope you know that being the victim of sexual assault is not a Get Out of Being a Human Being Free card.
Just because you’ve been victimized doesn’t mean you operate in an alternate moral universe where you’re not obligated to take other people’s feelings into consideration—particularly the feelings of people you profess to love and happen to be married to. Your first priority in the wake of your assault had to be your own physical and emotional safety, of course, but your behavior toward your husband is both cruel and selfish.
If you truly loved your husband and valued your marriage, PTSD, you would’ve put the boyfriend on hold and gotten your ass into therapy without having to be told. It looks to me like you want out of this marriage. But instead of taking responsibility for wanting out, you’re playing the victim card while slamming both hands down on your marriage’s self-destruct button.
To sum up, PTSD: You’re being a total shit. Do you love your husband? Is your marriage a priority? Then start acting like it: Cut the boyfriend off—for the indefinite future—and get your ass onto a counselor’s couch. If you’re not willing to do those things, PTSD, then stop emotionally assaulting your husband and put both your marriage and him out of their misery.
I have two clits. How common is this? I have never been able to ride a bike because I have an earthshaking orgasm as soon as I get on the seat. I come on the bus—the soft vibrations are too much! Walking anywhere in tight pants gets me moaning. Is there anything I can do, or rub on myself, to avoid having multiple orgasms in public?
Two Much Fun
I’ve never heard of someone with two clits—but I haven’t searched the medical literature or sought the opinion of an expert. And I’m not inclined to search or seek when a letter is so transparently fake. (Opaque fakes are fine; every letter that makes it into the column is a good hypothetical question—for every reader save one.) People whose genitals are different or ambiguous or terrifying—maybe that’s not an extra clit but the tip of your parasitic twin’s nose—frequently have questions and concerns, TMF, but multiple earthshaking orgasms aren’t high on the list.
You don’t have a single clit, TMF, much less two. You’re a horny boy with a dick, an e-mail account, and an obsession with/terror of a woman’s potential capacity for unlimited sexual pleasure. And I’m hoping—I’m hoping against hope—that seeing your letter in print isn’t your peak sexual experience. But odds are…
I am a 47-year-old gay man who has a desire to be humiliated and degraded—by a straight guy! How do I make this happen? Do I just walk up to a straight guy and tell him I want to get on my knees and clean his shoes with my tongue while he spits on me and calls me names? Or that I want to eat out of a dog dish on the floor while he laughs at me? How the hell do I make this happen? Please don’t say, “Settle for a very straight-acting and straight-looking gay guy.” I have tried that, and it doesn’t work! The guy must be totally and completely straight! Otherwise, it’s just not a turn-on for me. I’m so desperate that I’m almost willing to pay for it!
Worthless Piece Of Shit
Long odds: If you have a wide circle of sexually adventurous straight friends, WPOS, and you are open with all of your friends about your kinks in a friendly, nonthreatening manner, maybe one or two of your straight male friends might be indulgent/perverse enough to want to engage in a little role-play with you. (And, yes, it’s possible to make someone feel threatened by offering to lick their boots and take their abuse.)
Somewhat shorter odds: Don’t have friends like that? Well, there are a lot of BDSM groups and orgs out there that are mixed, i.e., they have gay, lesbian, straight, bi, and trans members, and most host mixed play parties. Get involved with one, be open about your kinks, and you’ll meet a few kinky straight male tops who would get a kick out of slapping you around.
Best odds: Pay for it, already.
I’m a het male professional in my mid-20s who wants to find a female dominant partner. Pro-dom services abound for stereotypes like me, but I’m looking for a D/s relationship rather than just playtime. Predictably, I can’t find one. Women I meet randomly are mostly socialized to want dominant men, and kink personal sites like FetLife only make my plight look even direr: Nearly all the doms are either pros or in their 50s. It’s a given that dominant women my age are unicorns, but how can I maximize those slim chances?
Seeking Unrestrained Bitch
By keeping your kink personal ad updated—unlike unicorns, kinky younger women do exist, and you want them to be able to find your ad when they troll on FetLife—and by reconciling yourself to the fact that most submissive straight men in D/s relationships met vanilla women who weren’t perverts themselves but were pervertible.
CONFIDENTIAL TO LGBT YOUTH: Please check out the new, improved, expanded, and totally awesome It Gets Better Project site: www.itgetsbetterproject.com. And please don’t kill yourself.
@ 62
It’s apparent that you completely pulled the whole “selective reading” issue here. PTSD obviously has NO issue with, as you put it, committed relationship type sex. She loves to have sex with her boyfriend, and doesn’t want to leave him or stop (which defines THAT relationship as committed- despite it being secondary or any other way…, it’s consistant, it’s committed). Casual wouldn’t be something repeatedly sought after and fought for. So, while understanding your point, your sending it in the wrong direction. She obviously doesn’t have the same issue. She just wants freedom, from her husband. This isn’t a PTSD issue, it’s about not wanting to be married to her husband. So, as stated by so many- it’s cruel, it’s wrong and she needs to let him know she’s done with the relationship so he can move on in life. Instead, she’s just being selfish and controlling.
@ 98
I’m afraid you’re completely off your rocker! So, the HUSBAND is selfish because while she needs to heal, by fucking somebody other than him, who- by being married, they should solve these problems together, not by going out and looking for other fuck buddies, he is hurt and requests for her to focus on him and their relationship. You’re so right, that selfish bastard. Give me a break. You, my friend, certainly need to open your eyes. The husband’s feelings are quite justified. And I’m quite certain, if this situation were upon you, and you were the husband- you’d feel quite similar.
To ALL who think that what PTSD is doing-
answer me this.
Since PTSD can just go out and continue fucking her boyfriend, (who indeed she’s obviously showing more effort to keep something going with than her husband)
Would it then be ok for the husband to just go do his own thing, no holds barred. Go find a girlfriend, fuck her, only her, want her only her. Hell, let’s go to the extremes, because, let’s face it, with this “open” relationship, that she obviously doesn’t feel should have ANY boundaries, he doesn’t even have to return home, expect maybe to catch a bite to eat, pay the bills and perhaps change clothes. Sounds fair to me. A tit for a tat.
Awesome column dan! Ptsd playing the victim card like that was very wrong. Even before I got to your response I was hoping you would call her out on that.
Awesome column dan! Ptsd playing the victim card like that was very wrong. Even before I got to your response I was hoping you would call her out on that.
@ 92 – are you in therapy?
Are you doing anything other than “slowly healing” by continuing to give a portion of the things shared in marriage outside the marriage only?
You may have BEEN traumatized, but what you are doing right now is TRAUMATIZING your wife – and not because she’s an unreasonable jealous person.
If you have looked for every other way and this is the ONLY way – then okay. But otherwise, your wife might be being a little selfish and not understanding, but YOU are being HUGELY selfish.
That your chosen method is *A* method that works for you does not mean it necessarily the *ONLY* method you could use. If you are unwilling to investigate and try the other methods or use a method which might take a little more time, but preserve your marriage, then all you are saying is “my needs are more important than yours” rather than the message that partnership – PARTNERship such as marriage deserves “your needs are as important as mine”.
@107
i think 92 was trying to pull the ol’ “switch the genders in the situation to prove gender bias” trick.
i think most here seem to be in agreement that what PTSD is doing isn’t cool, the schism seems to be between whether or not the marriage is doomed because of this. I guess we’d need to know more specifics of their open marriage arrangement to know how likely they are to make it through this issue.
I’m pretty sure #92 is a joke. Or sarcasm.
On the most recent Savage Love podcast, a young woman called in to confess that she got very drunk one night and had regretful, gray area sex. One of the only things she remembered is that she did say yes. After the sex, she felt so terrible, dirty etc that she told people she had been raped by this man. On her message, she said she felt awful that she was lying, but she still did it. Dan was incredibly gentle with her, and didn’t tell her she was cruel and using her “get out of being human free card.” Surely that woman was doing more damage to the life of that guy by telling others he RAPED her when, in fact, the conversation was more complicated, than PSTD is with her husband? I do believe he is suffering, and I feel awful for them both, but I think people themselves are being cruel here.
@ 108. Duh. That makes sense. I plead a long work day.
Ouch. I hope PTSD isn’t actually reading all of these nasty responses, after Dan verbally slammed on her.
I hope she actually finds someone who’s willing to hear her out, without judging her — because having been raped, I know how terrible the judgmental voice in your head already is, without everyone else piling on about how so and so is not acting like a *human being*! (Man. Since when does handling things badly in a relationship mean that you’re suddenly disqualified from being a member of the human race? That seems a bit extreme, don’t you think?)
“Get therapy” is solid advice, but a bit simplistic — not every therapist is going to be a good listener, not every therapist is going to be compatible with your needs, and not every therapist is going to ask the right questions about the polyamory situation, and be able to withhold judgments.
“Get rid of the boyfriend” is also a simplistic piece of advice. The problem is that the husband feels bad — but he will *continue* to feel bad if she gets rid of the boyfriend only to be miserable because she was bullied into doing so. It’s very hard for people to give up what they love, but I hear a lot of people essentially asking her to do just that, without asking any questions about whether her relationship with her husband is stable enough to be able to handle such a maneuver and the ensuing depression likely to come up.
FWIW, I think couple’s counseling for both couples is just as important as individual therapy, in this case. It’s likely that there’s some level of not-talking-about-what’s-in-her-head happening with both of her partners. What is she telling one partner that she’s not telling the other? What isn’t she telling the partners about each other, and her relationship with each? That affects how she views herself and each of her relationships.
Good luck, PTSD.
PTSD-
I say this from experience, both as someone who received therapy in the past and the wife of a man who had a traumatic psychotic episode and spent a year in recovery:
get therapy, NOW. please. I suggest cognitive behavioral therapy, because it seems to work very well and more quickly than analysis. It’s not as scary as it seems, I promise. No excuses. get therapy. If you’ve never done therapy before, here’s what to expect:
practice the healthy behavior you’re trying to achieve until you can do it on your own. You start out small, with the expert guidance of a counselor, and you never take on more than you can handle. You learn what you can expect of yourself, and learn what is your new ‘normal.’ Another great thing about therapy is that therapists approach your problems with helpful solutions, they won’t be thick-headed @ssholes like some ppl in these comments and won’t expect you to muscle your way through with magical will power. You’re feeling sick, so see a doctor. Immediately.
You write about your problem being sex with your husband but that seems to me to be secondary to healing. Your husband may be jealous and angry but this man loves you and vowed “for better or worse” (presumably) so I’ll bet he’s more than willing to put aside his legitimate troubles and help you heal. Maybe cool off the sex with the boyfriend for now; my guess is once you’ve established a relationship with a therapist and your bf is not your one and only outlet, it’ll be easier to put the sex on hold.
My guess is that once you are on the road to learning to take care of yourself your husband won’t be as angry, etc. When my husband was sick it was possibly the worst experience of my life, so… he could be a little bit irritable in general. It might be about more than just sex, since he is also coping with your sexual assault. The good news for all of you is that your getting the help you need is also going to help everyone else. Win/win.
PTSD-
I say this from experience, both as someone who received therapy in the past and the wife of a man who had a traumatic psychotic episode and spent a year in recovery:
get therapy, NOW. please. I suggest cognitive behavioral therapy, because it seems to work very well and more quickly than analysis. It’s not as scary as it seems, I promise. No excuses. get therapy. If you’ve never done therapy before, here’s what to expect:
practice the healthy behavior you’re trying to achieve until you can do it on your own. You start out small, with the expert guidance of a counselor, and you never take on more than you can handle. You learn what you can expect of yourself, and learn what is your new ‘normal.’ Another great thing about therapy is that therapists approach your problems with helpful solutions, they won’t be thick-headed @ssholes like some ppl in these comments and won’t expect you to muscle your way through with magical will power. You’re feeling sick, so see a doctor. Immediately.
You write about your problem being sex with your husband but that seems to me to be secondary to healing. Your husband may be jealous and angry but this man loves you and vowed “for better or worse” (presumably) so I’ll bet he’s more than willing to put aside his legitimate troubles and help you heal. Maybe cool off the sex with the boyfriend for now; my guess is once you’ve established a relationship with a therapist and your bf is not your one and only outlet, it’ll be easier to put the sex on hold.
My guess is that once you are on the road to learning to take care of yourself your husband won’t be as angry, etc. When my husband was sick it was possibly the worst experience of my life, so… he could be a little bit irritable in general. It might be about more than just sex, since he is also coping with your sexual assault. The good news for all of you is that your getting the help you need is also going to help everyone else. Win/win.
@104 — That’s not a solution. At best, that’s going to inflict extra guilt on the wife and make things even worse by waving it in her face.
@110 — That’s a different situation altogether, and not just because the woman in the podcast wasn’t in a relationship that was suffering over what happened (although that is a big part of it). Dan also tells her to get some counseling and clear things up if the accusation was public or charges were pressed.
I am sure hoping the husband is not bothering to pay any bills for this woman who, allegedly, is his wife. The boyfriend getting the pussy can pay those.
To all those people saying “shame on him for pressuring her–she needs to heal!” Fine. Let her. And let him get on with his life.
But this marriage is over, at her election. My guess is she would admit this, except she must need his income to make her current lifestyle choices work. Hence the have-my-cake-and-eat-it-too-stuff about sex with BF is A-okay (sly wink), but (sniffle) I am not ready to handle my husband’s needs (sniffle), not yet. (sniffle) It is…too soon.
Right. I am guessing some more that if husband came home and said “I lost my job!”, wife would move in with boyfriend.
It’s so nice to see someone taking the feelings of both parties into account. The way that Dan totally clued into the fact that the husband’s emotional abuse (because I can’t see anyone actually being stupid enough to deny that jealousy, anger, accusations and demands instead of loving support constitutes emotional abuse) might have something to do with the wife not wanting to sleep with him was really great. Way to be a class act, Dan.
It’s so nice to see someone taking the feelings of both parties into account. The way that Dan totally clued into the fact that the husband’s emotional abuse (because I can’t see anyone actually being stupid enough to deny that jealousy, anger, accusations and demands instead of loving support constitutes emotional abuse) might have something to do with the wife not wanting to sleep with him was really great. Way to be a class act, Dan.
It’s so nice to see someone taking the feelings of both parties into account. The way that Dan totally clued into the fact that the husband’s emotional abuse (because I can’t see anyone actually being stupid enough to deny that jealousy, anger, accusations and demands instead of loving support constitutes emotional abuse) might have something to do with the wife not wanting to sleep with him was really great. Way to be a class act, Dan.
PTSD- Dan Savage is being a total shit. Many of the commenters here are being total shits. And, as far as I can tell, your husband is being a total shit. He’s certainly allowed to feeling hurt, angry, depressed, etc.,- but demanding that you cut out the one thing that’s helping you so that he doesn’t have to feel bad anymore? That’s pretty shitty. You don’t owe him sex. I’ll repeat that, because it’s important: despite popular opinion, YOU DO NOT OWE YOUR SPOUSE SEX.
I want to add something someone I know said about this when she heard your story, because I haven’t seen it posted elsewhere here (and I’m sorry to her if she’s already posted it here!): your husband is treating your sexual autonomy as contingent on his sexual satisfaction. I mean, I know that sometimes the rules and boundaries of open relationships change, but specifically trying to limit you in response to his own bad feelings? That’s not mature. That’s not good poly.
So, in sum, don’t listen to all the people here telling you how awful you are. Victim-blaming is endemic in our culture, as is making everything the woman’s responsibility, and I’m sorry you’re having to see some of that now, while you’re already hurting.
While you don’t have to listen to me, either, I do suggest finding a professional to help. I’m a big fan of therapy. It would be good for your husband to see one, too, either by doing some joint sessions with you, or by going separately, to help him deal with what happened to you and the resulting trauma, and changes in your lives. (I suspect what he actually needs is reassurance, and he needs (perhaps with your help, if you’re both able and willing) to find ways to get that without trying to coerce you into having unwanted sex with him and without trying control your outside sex life.)
Hmmm…. I don’t see anyone here (or even her husband) trying to coerce her into having sex with her husband. What people are pointing out (with, I admit, varying degrees of, uh, sensitivity) is that not only is she hurting (so she really should get into therapy) but her husband is *also* hurting, and she needs to address that.
The only person I blame here is the one who assaulted her in the first place.
Um, sorry, yes.
Yes, you do owe your spouse sex. Unless you made some kind of serious pre-nup disclaimer, you do owe your spouse sex, and he owes it to you.
If my husband were to declare one day, for whatever reason, that he would no longer be having any sex with me, he would basically be putting our marriage up on the table for re-evaluation, and perhaps a guilt-free termination on my part. A willing sex-partner is pretty much understood to be part of the marriage package, certain conditions notwithstanding. (I have a temporary medical condition; you have gained 85 pounds and stopped bathing, etc.)
And anyone who thinks that a full-stop termination of sex with their spouse does not morally justify the spouse terminating the marriage has a pretty rare take on the concept.
“Pervertible.” Hooray! Never heard that word before.
See the stupidity of men who marry sluts.
Am I the only one wondering if she is for some reason victimizing or punishing her husband to externalize what she is experiencing? It’s not cool, and it’s not fair.
I can tell you first-hand: you aren’t gonna get better if you don’t have therapy. PTSD needs to spend a lot more time on a therapist’s couch and less time in the sack.
Am I the only one wondering if she is for some reason victimizing or punishing her husband to externalize what she is experiencing? It’s not cool, and it’s not fair.
I can tell you first-hand: you aren’t gonna get better if you don’t have therapy. PTSD needs to spend a lot more time on a therapist’s couch and less time in the sack.
@112 – Why don’t you just admit that as soon as you read the words “sexual assault,” you decided that PTSD should be able to do whatever she wants, and that if there’s any conflict with her husband, he must be the bad guy?
No one’s said that therapy will instantly cure her problems. Therapy is being brought up because it’s advisable for any victim of sexual assault to do so, and also because PTSD can’t claim to care very much about her husband’s feelings when she insists on avoiding therapy AND continuing to see the boyfriend.
And it is most certainly not bullying for the husband to say, “If you refuse to have sex with me, I don’t want you having sex with anyone else.” He shouldn’t even have to say it. It says a lot that your biases that you would use the word “bullying” in this context.
If PTSD’s letter said, “I was sexually assaulted, and now I have no interest in sex with anyone, and my husband can’t accept that,” then I doubt anyone would be defending the husband. If it had said, “I’m disgusted by my husband’s touch, but not my lover’s, so I dropped the lover for the time being,” then the tone of the responses would be very different, also. But that’s not what her letter said.
Hate to say it, once someones touch makes your skin crawl it’s usually permanent and the relationship is over. And it’s quite possible he never really turned her on much anyway. This is very sad.
I wish you had been kinder, Dan. Stating that someone is acting like a total shit because they can’t negotiate their sex life 5 months after a sexual assault, even if it’s true, feels fucking mean, and unnecessary. I’m not saying you had to hold her hand, or baby her, but you certainly didn’t have to flat out insult her. This woman is fucked up and making poor choices as the result of a recent trauma. No, it does not give her a pass, but it should have at least sparked enough compassion in you to not call her names.
“PTSD- Dan Savage is being a total shit. Many of the commenters here are being total shits. And, as far as I can tell, your husband is being a total shit.”
When you meet ten assholes in a day and wonder how so many people can be so mean, guess what? More likely than not, you are the asshole, not them.
“YOU DO NOT OWE YOUR SPOUSE SEX.”
Please don’t marry anyone. For their sake.
@120: “your husband is treating your sexual autonomy as contingent on his sexual satisfaction. I mean, I know that sometimes the rules and boundaries of open relationships change, but specifically trying to limit you in response to his own bad feelings?”
So “sexual satisfaction” can be fairly compared to “not being treated during sex or sexual touching like a creepy monster on par with her rapist”? A “bad feeling” can be equated with being treated with revulsion?
This guy isn’t whining that his wife isn’t servicing him, or simply isn’t sexually attracted to him. He’s hurt that his wife finds him *disgusting* and *fears* him.
Maybe once she works through the disgust and panic, she’ll still discover that she doesn’t find him sexually attractive anymore. But that’s another issue.
And as far as we know, her relationship with her BF has existed before, and her husband’s jealousy is a recent development. Apparently, he’s been able to deal with his sexual satisfaction while also giving his wife sexual autonomy. Give the man some credit.
@100
I find the notion that someone finds security in having the freedom to screw whoever you want whenever you want, and your partner just has to deal with it… disturbing. I guess it takes all types, though. You’re a free spirit, and I hope that it works well for you. No doubt there are people who are OK with being in relationships like that. I’m just not one of them.
I think that American culture focuses so much on maximal individual happiness and self-actualization that we lose sight of the importance of loyalty and duty, and the bonds of a network of relationships that carry some obligations and responsibilities. This is a byproduct of being an extremely wealthy society – prosperity reduces the degree to which we are forced to rely on our family and community. Overall, I think that individuality and self-actualization are wonderful, but something is lost when we focus on these things exclusively.
@129
This isn’t about “negotiating one’s sex life”. I don’t care if you’ve been sexually assaulted or not, if you know that someone you claim to love is suffering because you won’t restrain your need to satisfy your genitals with others, and you keep doing it, in my book you’ve lost all credibility when you use the word “love”. No one is saying that PTSD should be having sex with her husband. But for her to keep having sex with her boyfriend while her husband is miserable about it is completely beyond the pale.
At this point, if I could talk to PTSD’s husband, I’d counsel him to leave even if she weren’t clearly getting ready to leave herself. If she puts her sexual gratification ahead of his misery he should run run run. If they don’t have kids and lots of property in common, he should thank his lucky stars that she has shown her true colors now and cut his losses. I know that this sounds harsh, and I am betting he won’t do that… as I would have trouble following such advice myself, because of wanting to provide support to the person I promised to love and cherish for ever. Still, she is treating him like crap, and he needs to realize what that says about what he can expect from her in their future life together, if there is any.
Hey SUB, it’s just as tough for a woman ur age to find a dom/sub in his 20’s or 30’s.
So far I’ve only found guys who are 40+ or married. Plus I’m in a straight-laced city in Asia.
I hope you’d find your perfect Dom soon, holla at me if you’re in Asia 🙂
Hey SUB, it’s just as tough for a woman ur age to find a dom/sub in his 20’s or 30’s.
So far I’ve only found guys who are 40+ or married. Plus I’m in a straight-laced city in Asia.
I hope you’d find your perfect Dom soon, holla at me if you’re in Asia 🙂
You are a piece of shit, Dan Savage. Who the fuck gave YOU a Get Out of Being a Human Being Free card? You shouldn’t be writing an advice column at all. You are an angry dick who gives terrible advice and has no clue how to relate to people.
your advice today to PTSD is short-sighted and rather lacking. it’s been just 5 months since she was assaulted, not 5 years or anything close to it.
although you have great heart in some manners, I’m sorry this doesn’t appear to be one of them.
WAY TO GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it’s just wonderful what you and everyone else is doing!!! We NEED far more to this!!!! It Gets Better Project! — KEEP pushing!!!!!!!
Wow. Just, wow.
Fuck you, Dan Savage. The least you could have done was direct her to some sexual assault recovery help. But no. She’s being a “total shit.”
Seriously, fuck you and everyone on this fucked up thread acting like she is somehow abusing her husband. Rape culture, indeed.
http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2…
Married people with boyfriends and girlfriends, therein lies your problem. Why the heck are they even married?! Monumentally stupid is what they both are.
@138
She is abusing her husband, femwanderluster. Not by not screwing him, but by continuing to screw her boyfriend, knowing that her husband is suffering because of it. Her trauma does not change her obligation not to walk all over the feelings of someone she claims to love.
@139
Sorry, srevits, but there ARE married couples who are loving, committed, loyal, responsible, sane, considerate, ethical, and non-monogamous. You’re just reading about the trainwrecks here because the successful ones don’t write in for advice.
Fuck you, Dan. How dare you tell PTSD “I hope you’ve told the police.” The decision to notify the police over a crime that has been committed against oneself, especially a crime like sexual assault, is a very personal one and only the victim should be making that. You do not have the right to try to guilt her into reporting the incident if she has decided that it’s better for her to not report it.
Fuck you, Dan. How dare you tell PTSD “I hope you’ve told the police.” The decision to notify the police over a crime that has been committed against oneself, especially a crime like sexual assault, is a very personal one and only the victim should be making that. You do not have the right to try to guilt her into reporting the incident if she has decided that it’s better for her to not report it.
@ 142
I think Dan might have said that because many rapists tend to keep on raping, and pressing charges might stop him, at least for a little while. I agree that there are times when a victim is better served by not reporting it–if there is no physical evidence, and, as in this case, the victim had a previous sexual relationship with her assailant. Pressing charges might only succeed in causing her pain, and whether or not she thinks it’s worth it is obviously her choice. However, Dan wouldn’t be giving very good advice if he didn’t urge her (rather gently, I thought) to tell the police. Too many rapes are never successfully prosecuted, and that only changes on a victim-by-victim basis.
@140–I disagree.
By all means, let’s put the husband’s feelings first because he’s got no responsibility at all for his own feelings or to be a supporting partner to his wife, a survivor of sexual assault. It seems to me that anyone on this thread who’s doing that has absolutely no idea what they’re talking about re:sexual assault and it’s consequences on a survivor.
Melissa McEwan at Shakesville:
“Because it’s cruel and selfish, it’s downright “emotional assault,” to not have sex with her husband while she’s having sex with the boyfriend her husband was totes okay with her having, as long as she was fucking him, too…
Yes, it’s difficult to understand why, after being sexually assaulted, she doesn’t want to have sex with someone who considers her autonomy a negotiable item, contingent upon whether she’s sexually servicing him.”
She mentions that she HAS had sex with her husband despite not wanting to, which screams to me of pressure from him. Pressuring the woman you’re supposed to love who was recently a victim of sexual assault = awful, awful, bad idea. No wonder she doesn’t want to–he’s emotionally coercing her. So yeah, she’s going to associate him with the same line of guy who assaulted her.
Gah, where are people’s hearts and minds here? Oh…I see them, they make up the sad sack balls of the the rape culture’s wang.
@ 140
Abuse my ass. Abuse is the manipulative, deliberate desire to control and hurt someone else via some sort of power (violence/sex/etc). Trying to cope with the deep emotional trauma of a recent rape without perfect grace and unwillingly hurting people in the process is NOT abuse.
I mean, for god’s sake, you’re acting like she’s lying in bed with her boyfriend cackling evilly. She KNOWS she’s hurting other people, but, shock and surprise, she’s an emotional wreck trying to deal with what she’s going through. Again, that is not abuse. Abusers do not realize that their actions hurt others, grieve over it, and ask for help so they can stop. So stop misusing that word. It’s not abuse when a man gets JEALOUS, for fuck’s sake.
And for all the talk about responsibility and obligation, what about the husband? Where’s him realizing that his wife is not exactly emotionally rational, is not hurting him on purpose, knows it shouldn’t be all about him and ‘get over’ his own emotional fallout to this situation? Everyone is laying all the responsibilty on her to fix a situation she had no choice in, but not a single word about the husband dealing with his own emotions that are making the situation worse (and they ARE, for making a rape victim feel more shame and guilt than she already does).
People react badly when they’re not all together, whether it’s rape, drugs, grieving, mental illness, and they sometimes hurt the people they love. If those people actually loved them BACK in any meaningful way, they’d deal with the pain and try to help the person who is in MORE PAIN. But then, it’s easier to just blame the victim and just say she’s just a big horrible meanie for not considering THEIR feelings while she goes through hell.
Dan is right. Yeah, it’s mean to her. Yeah, it’s being harsh to a victim. Too fucking bad. It’s true. What happened to her was awful and inexcusable, and what she’s doing is also awful and also inexcusable. Having something bad happen to you does not allow you to do something bad to someone else guilt-free, due to karma or the universe balancing out or whatever bullshit reason you think.
Basically: “victim” and “victimizer” are NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE! She is a victim and a victimizer.
I am not blaming the victim. Most people here are not blaming the victim. But neither are we automatically assuming that a victim goes through a period of blamelessness for any subsequent actions. Those commenters who believe the woman can do no wrong, that sexual assault so damages a person that they are relieved of their obligations to behave in a decent fashion– those commenters are perpetuating the “rape culture” they so decry.
This is an important point:
You can be both a VICTIM and a VICTIMIZER.
Repeat:
YOU CAN BE BOTH A VICTIM AND A VICTIMIZER. THESE CATEGORIES ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. REPEAT THAT UNTIL YOU UNDERSTAND IT.
@145 “they make up the sad sack balls of the the rape culture’s wang.” Amazing! You have a gift for words.
And I forgot to add in my response: Dan, this is one of those times you’ve got to own up to the bullying things you’ve said or lose your credibility. Seriously, if you don’t understand mental illness or emotional trauma, call in an expert or something. Because there is NO WAY you *get it* on any level. You’re making it worse for her and setting a bullying example.
To echo what a lot of commenters have said: No one is suggesting that PTSD must have sex with her husband, just that continuing to have sex with her boyfriend is truly unkind (I wouldn’t say “abuse,” that’s a loaded word). If this were your relationship, and your partner came home in a glow from all the otherworldly sex he/she is having with their secondary partner and then shuddered in disgust when ever YOU tried to touch them, would that not hurt you terribly? Especially if, 5 months after their horrible assault, your partner was only *considering* therapy??? I imagine PTSD’s husband might have an easier time of it if her current “therapy” consisted of more than fucking her boyfriend. She can’t keep claiming victimhood if she isn’t willing to get the help that she needs.
Geeze people are reacting strangely.
Maybe calling her a “total shit” might have been a bit over the top, but otherwise, seems like he’s giving reasonable advice to a person that’s concerned about herself and her husband.
hey 122, I’m pretty sure a lot of people think it’s ok to just up and stop having sex one day. I’m pretty sure Dan’s inbox is flooded with people married to them. I’m pretty sure the vast majority of them are women. And this is why I thank my lucky stars day after day I’m not a lesbian.