181 replies on “Savage Love”

  1. Liberal Christians ALLOWED fundamentalists to “hijack” Christianity? Moderate Muslims allowed insane fundamentalists to “hijack” Islam, I suppose? What the hell are we supposed to do about it? I mean that as an honest question; how do you imagine that liberal Christians have any more influence over fundamentalist Christians than you do? Christianity is not like a parliamentary body that debates and votes on what our message to the world is. I’m completely baffled by your supposition that liberal Christians have some magic power over the right-wing religious assholes that we are just too meek and passive to exert. Dan, you’re seriously an insensitive asshole for your attitude toward liberal Christians who do work to preach the message that our faith is compatible with and supportive of homosexual people and homosexuality. Telling us that we’re 50% of the problem when we’re actively working to help is just asinine, hateful and ignorant.

  2. Once again, Dan lets his liberal/atheist politics use the anti-gay canard to tarnish anyone who is a Christian or conservative.

    For the record, Glenn Beck leans libertarian and I believe he actually supports gay marriage. Which means the only reason you chose to insult him is that you don’t like the fact that he is a Christian and conservative.

  3. “I’m a straight male roman catholic who is out spoken whenever I get a chance about my whole hearted support for gay marriage whenever it comes up, and I work in construction in NYC so dont think that hasnt raised a few eyebrows or caused some speculation among my peers.

    So why dont you suck MY dick Dan?”

    Are you saying that you think gay is a choice? OK, you win, but that wasn’t the challenge. If Dan won’t suck it for ya, I’m sure plenty others on here will. (I’ll think about it, but I need pix).

  4. OMG! Thank you #84! I’m sooo sick of people who think they’re better than me because they had kids (whether they planned them or not). & usually they’ll say, “Well,people who don’t want kids shouldn’t have them; they’ll just abuse them. Umm, no; the dumbasses that abuse kids are the ONES THAT HAVE THEM.

  5. @Gaudior (85)
    I’d answer your second paragraph, but I’m too lazy, having a whole post in slog that answers for me.
    http://walkingwithintegrity.blogspot.com…

    Ok, I COULD agree with the question (is homosexuality a choice?) being tangential. But that doen’t make it less valid. When I gave those examples, i meant, for example, that the person Dan answered could not choose to be gay as long as his choose for homosexuality were previous and could not be undone. As for the actions, I’ll translate the answer given before: I don’t think it’s relevant, I don’t care that everyone else is talking about ACTING gay and not BEING gay because that differentiation as Bishop John Shelby Spong says, it’s a part of a self serving lie […].

    I may, from your answer, see that I didn’t make myself clear, and I use to think it’s my fault and I’m sorry because English is not my mother language, but I could explain it shortly and simpler.
    I’ve always HATED the argument of homosexuality not being a choice to remark that homosexuality is not right (I won’t talk about sin or not sin, because there actually are many secular homophobic assholes around everywhere). Imagine, just imagine, that it’s clear enough that homosexuality is a choice. Not homosexual acts, but the sexual orientation, BEING GAY. Would that make it wrong? I think it would not. And as I think it wouldn’t, I also think that that very used argument is weak (as homosexuality could be a choice), so the way mostly NALTs use to convince themselves and other christians (and not christians) is weak and reversible, and dangerous. Homosexuality is not a bad thing because it’s not a choice. Homosexuality is not a bad thing because its personal stuff, and it doesn’t hurt third party, and because every argument told to make believe it’s bad, is arbitrary (we are surrounded bu “unnatural things, since when naturality of things is a valid criteria to discern between good and bad things? does naturality make medicine, for example, a bad thing?) and based on a previous judgment and posterior arguments built FROM that judgment.

  6. The whole ‘lube is not an option’ thing didn’t surprise me really. College girl living with parents who snoop or she’s weirded out by the IDEA of lube (’cause she’s still pretty young/immature) or… there are lots of reasons she could want to avoid lube (none valid, really… she’ll figure that out when she finally tries it).

    How about natural lube, like lady-juices or good ol’ fashioned spit?

  7. Osage @ #87, let me see if I can sum your comment up:

    “I don’t hate gays, but I’ll make hateful generalizations about them because many disagree with me.”

    See, wasn’t that simpler?

  8. #75 It doesn’t matter very much what Jews feel about gay marriage, and it doesn’t matter in the least how Muslims feel. They do not have the influence on American politics that Christians do. That’s why Dan blames them specifically. “Christianity seems like the major barrier, because they are the majority.” Well, uh, YEAH.

    #67 Oh, yes. If someone asks you if being gay is a choice, answer him that way. I dare you.

  9. #75 It doesn’t matter very much what Jews feel about gay marriage, and it doesn’t matter in the least how Muslims feel. They do not have the influence on American politics that Christians do. That’s why Dan blames them specifically. “Christianity seems like the major barrier, because they are the majority.” Well, uh, YEAH.

    #67 Oh, yes. If someone asks you if being gay is a choice, answer him that way. I dare you.

  10. OK, so I really, really hate lube. I hate the texture. I hate the way it feels all goopy on my hands. I hate how it’s impossible to open a condom wrapper or a bottle of lube or do anything else with my hands because they’re all slippery and gooey. I hate how afterwards it’s impossible to get rid of.

    I try to use saliva or natural juices whenever possible. They don’t seem to have these problems and they don’t leave residue; they just sort of absorb.

    So are there any lubes that avoid these problems?

  11. @117: What do you mean, you dare 67 to answer that way? 67 is correct. Human sexuality is flexible and sometimes changes depending on the situation or environment.

  12. i followed Dan’s break up advice–it was better for me, but the break-upee didn’t appreciate the clean break and would, have, I think preferred a dishonest drag out where i acted unsure and led her on for a while. she is still pissed 2 years later and I’m her only ex shes not friends with. I still think his advice is good, but not for reasons of selfless compassion. people are different adn prefer different things.

  13. @Why is lube not an option?, people:

    She might have had some sort of allergic reaction to a lube, and doesn’t want to try another one. Yeast infections/allergic reactions due to that type of thing = not fun. And before everyone starts jumping on the use olive oil (or whatever) bandwagon, well, that would pose a problem if they’re using condoms. If this is the issue, she just needs to get over it and experiment a bit.

    And, I sincerely hope that its not because her partner doesn’t think its not necessary or some BS.

  14. @43

    I guess I’m just sick of people wagging their collective fingers at christians/catholics like we have the monopoly on judgemental ignorance. I am Not Like That, or whatever, and I dont tolerate hate speech when I’m confronted by it, neither do most of the folks I go to church with.

  15. The lube issue may be yeasty. If you get yeast infections from lube, try a glycerin-free water-based lube. I had a chronic yeast infection for over 5 years before I realized it was the glycerin (i.e. sugar) in the lubes I used. And none of the OB/GYNs that I went to ever went there… it was a Babeland educator that passed this nugget of wisdom, and my yeast infections have dramatically decreased in frequency. Babelube® is my favorite, but there are several out there (Liquid Silk, Sliquid, and I think even KY and Astroglide have glycerin-free options). You can also try silicone-based lube… it lasts forever! However, it is harder to clean, and should not be used with silicone toys.

  16. @118, my hubs & I use J&J baby lotion. It absorbs into the skin pretty quickly, so isn’t great (or needs to be reapplied) for super long sessions. But it doesn’t create a gross mess, doesn’t have a slimy, goopy texture and even with my super sensitive, fair, Irish skin, never causes any irritation or problems.

  17. I like Dan’s sex advice, but his political opinions I can do without. You wish death on Glenn Beck because he is annoying? That’s wrong.

  18. @85: the argument is queered either way. If being gay is something inherent like being black or being female, then you can construct the argument that it’s no more fair to discriminate on that basis than on the other two.

    If being gay IS a choice, then either the person you’re arguing with can do exactly what Dan suggests :), or he can concede that religion should not be protected from discrimination because one’s religion is a choice.

    So yeah, the real issue is that there is nothing wrong with being queer (whether chosen or inherent), full stop. There are legal precedents for protecting both sorts of things. But a side effect of that is that the arguments against are sophomoric — which these types of answers so astutely point out.

    (Of course the other problem is that these religious types just don’t think rationally at all — and again there’s the real crux of the issue to begin with. How to reason with the unreasonable?)

    Awright I’m dizzy now, let me off!

  19. @37, you’re a little confused about the various meanings of terms like “animal” and “fruit” in scientific vs. vernacular contexts. These words had their everyday meanings first. The specialized scientific meanings were added later. And there’s no danger of mixing them up, because it’s clear from the context whether a term is being used in its original, non-technical sense. Even though “jerk” has a special meaning in physics (as the third derivative of displacement with respect to time), it can easily determined from the rest of the sentence when that special meaning is intended. So don’t be a jerk.

  20. Dan: If you keep being hateful and ugly, how can I tell you apart from those that you despise for their hatred and ugliness?

    Christianity and most major religions is opposed to gay marriage based on the principles of the religion. It is important to stress law and not religion when talking to any religious person. What you and your religion practice is one thing, a matter of law should be separate. If society is accepting of a change in law, even if our laws were originally based on a certain shared religious doctoring, the laws need to reflect societies view of acceptance.

    The problem is we can’t argue with those who think laws and their religion is one in the same. We can talk, scream, jump up and down and through hissy fits but the conservatives won’t hear us, debate us, read our arguments or listen to us. We are not the barrier, the barrier is within the conservative Christians hearts and minds. All we can do for them is pray for them. God can reach down and knock some sense into them, we can’t.

    Another problem is the media loves to portray all Christians as ultraconservative radicals in order for the liberal media to keep spreading the hate against Christians. Mainstream Christians do not get air time or print space on their views. Only those horrible people that oppose it are heard from in order to keep up the portrait of those ‘horrible’ Christians alive.

    On a side note: For the life of me I can’t understand Rush’s opposition. He is a very intelligent smart man who does wonderful research and analysis on the issues but he is a stubborn douche-bag about same sex marriage. He really needs to pull his head out of his ass on this one. I actually agree with many of his views on things but same sex marriage, it’s like he punted it any never bothered looking into the issue at all. Lame, way lame.

  21. @100
    grey-area rape is the kind of sex that involves more subtle coercion and can’t fairly be construed as rape.
    Chandra’s experience is a common one – women are oftne too timid to (or have some reason why they can’t) say “stop” when they want to stop. The guy in question isn’t really doing anything wrong – consent was given and never withdrawn – but the the woman winds up feeling violated anyway, just without anyone to blame, other than the societ yin which she was raised, I guess?

  22. @133

    Yes, I’ve had experiences like those myself. But please, for the love of God, can we NOT use the word rape in this context? Rape denotes force, period. If a woman is legally able to consent and does so, it’s not rape. There are many ways for a sexual experience to be traumatic without it being rape, certainly. Unfortunately, using the word rape in this context only dilutes its meaning and diminishes society’s interest in getting justice for actual rape victims.

  23. @133 Hold on….. let’s not give the guy a complete pass here. If a guy knows the girl is not comfortable having sex but who for some reason cannot or does not firmly say “no,” but he pushes and pushes anyway, he’s being at the very least an asshole. It may not be rape, but it’s definitely crossing a line.

  24. @barskin (117)
    Nope, I wouldn’t. I already said I’m actually too lazy to spend my energy doing it.
    And most of people who ask is trying to argue about homosexuality being “immoral”, from a religious or ultraconservative way. And, as I always say, and as @132 points out, I don’t like to waste my time “evangelizando indígenas” (evangelizing Indians, something some people say in Chile about the fact of trying to convince irrational people to act rationally).

  25. Fuck Glenn Beck BAREBACK in the ass and face at the same time. Use Crisco for lube. Brand his ass with a branding iron that says ‘I SUCK DONKEY ASS!’ Write ‘I AM RETARDED’ with a Sharpie on his forehead….
    Then throw the Bitch into the ocean.

  26. I’m a straight male roman catholic who is out spoken whenever I get a chance about my whole hearted support for gay marriage whenever it comes up, and I work in construction in NYC so dont think that hasnt raised a few eyebrows or caused some speculation among my peers.

    That’s nice, except for the part where you voluntarily remain a member of an organization whose leaders and dogma are adamantly opposed to gay rights.

    If you never, ever, ever put money in the collection plate and have bumper stickers on your car supporting gay rights, then you have credibility.

  27. Poor Suffer girl! Yikes! If you want an all-natural lube then there are three things I know of: coconut oil (my favorite and the only one I’ve tried!), olive oil…and then some people use egg whites shot in the vagina with a syringe. (Sounds gross to me…but so would painful sex!) There are also women’s-specific physical therapists who can help you increase your vaginal width and length if needed. I went to one for a while and it was very helpful! Good luck! Coming from someone who has been in a VERY painful sex situation…there are things you can do and it doesn’t have to be this way.

  28. As far as Gay Rights and Gay Marriage is concerned.
    It shouldn’t matter if a person is “born-that-way” or a choice.
    So what if some chooses a sam-sex-relationship.

  29. The NALT Christians need to leave little notes in the collection plate, every Sunday, stating that this week’s tithing went–again–to an organization fighting for same-sex-marriage rights.

    As others noted above, if you’re giving money to an organization with objectives you don’t share, you’re supporting those objectives.

  30. “It shouldn’t matter if a person is “born-that-way” or a choice.”

    Every religion is a choice. If it’s right to discriminate against gays because “it’s a choice,” then it’s right to discriminate against Catholics or Moslems or Jews for the same reason.

  31. @146:

    That’s not really fair. Some choices are actively socially harmful, like choosing to practice and promote a religion based on falsehoods. Others aren’t, like entering into a same-sex relationship.

    (Even if you don’t think being religious is socially harmful, the point still stands: I have no problem discriminating based on people’s harmful choices. Having consensual gay sex isn’t harmful, but there are other choices that are.)

  32. “Does Size Matter?”

    How big is too big when it comes to a dick?
    Is it all about girth? Can a cock be too thick?
    Is it length of the shaft that enhances sensation,
    Increasing one’s pleasure with deep penetration?

    Oh, big ones are scenic and show well online
    But for practical matters six inches is fine.
    And anything larger than comfort allows
    Can rupture a membrane it casually plows.

    And I think turgidity counts for a lot
    Determining hot from what surely is not
    For a large one that’s limp may not ever excite me
    Though smaller but hard ones can often all night me.

    It’s also the manner that dick is deployed
    Affecting the way an engorgement’s enjoyed;
    If the man that’s behind it is enthusiastic
    He’ll probably make an orgasm fantastic.

    Now I haven’t a clue if the way that I dangle
    Will hit the right spot and at just the right angle
    To give you the willies and cause you to moan,
    (two beat pause)
    But I do what I can with the one that I own.

    JPK 7/18/2009

  33. “Does Size Matter?”

    How big is too big when it comes to a dick?
    Is it all about girth? Can a cock be too thick?
    Is it length of the shaft that enhances sensation,
    Increasing one’s pleasure with deep penetration?

    Oh, big ones are scenic and show well online
    But for practical matters six inches is fine.
    And anything larger than comfort allows
    Can rupture a membrane it casually plows.

    And I think turgidity counts for a lot
    Determining hot from what surely is not
    For a large one that’s limp may not ever excite me
    Though smaller but hard ones can often all night me.

    It’s also the manner that dick is deployed
    Affecting the way an engorgement’s enjoyed;
    If the man that’s behind it is enthusiastic
    He’ll probably make an orgasm fantastic.

    Now I haven’t a clue if the way that I dangle
    Will hit the right spot and at just the right angle
    To give you the willies and cause you to moan,
    (two beat pause)
    But I do what I can with the one that I own.

    JPK 7/18/2009

  34. @84 thank you. As a childed female, I will confess that having children merely indicates that I fucked up on the birth control 3 times.

    However, as a woman who has given birth 3 times, I also have a good understanding of the miraculous stretchyness of the vagina (fisting comes to mind as well). So I have a hard time comprehending the ‘too big’ when it comes to SOP cock in pussy fucking. Protracted foreplay is a good suggestion–I think that all foreplay should be protracted. Maybe Mr. Very Well Hung, Can I Please Have His Phone Number? could benefit from a nice mature lady to show him how the girl parts work. But if we’re talking about butt fucking, well that should never be done without copious amounts of lube–no ‘lady juices’ in the ass. Y’all need to stop buying your lube at Target–go someplace good that knows sex and sex accessories.

  35. regarding the santorum issue, i think gay or hetero sex should always involve some basic hygiene, and douching for men or women engaging in anal sex is basic. it takes 10-15 minutes top and prevents any embarrassment or general ickiness. then again, there are times when you know what’s up (you), and no douching is required, but either way, be a good lover and make it a mess-free exchange.

  36. regarding the santorum issue, i think gay or hetero sex should always involve some basic hygiene, and douching for men or women engaging in anal sex is basic. it takes 10-15 minutes top and prevents any embarrassment or general ickiness. then again, there are times when you know what’s up (you), and no douching is required, but either way, be a good lover and make it a mess-free exchange.

  37. Medical advice to the woman with the size issue:

    1. Vaginal dilators (though they sound archaic) are an option. I’ve recommended them to patients who have size-incompatibility that has led to condom breakage (which can be a problem due to excessive friction when the penis is too wide for the vagina). The vagina is very stretchable (a baby’s head is wider than any penis you’re ever going to encounter).
    2. Don’t follow some of the above advice that involves searching around for materials to use as lube that aren’t marketed as such without doing some research. Anything oil-based can eat away at the condom. If in doubt, ask a doctor before using anything as lube that isn’t marketed as lube. I know it sounds embarrassing to ask, but I promise your doctor has heard worse.
    3. If the issue is length, then just use different positions. Easy fix.

  38. Yes, it would be unkind to actually kill Glen Beck even if you had the opportunity.

    Although if he were on fire I might commit a sin of omission by not pissing on him.

  39. I don’t like you’re characterizing ‘NALTs’ as “letting” the religion get hijacked – that happened at least 1,000 years ago – and it makes as much sense as blaming 9/11 the peace-loving muslims who “let” bin Laden, the Ayatollah’s, etc. hijack their religion. If you think that NALTs are to blame for not speaking up, I hope you’re against the “Ground Zero Mosque”, or hell, against gay marriage; because you know SOME gay folk are ridiculously promiscuous. I hope their not all like that!

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