Long story short: I cheated on my boyfriend three years ago. I admitted it nine months ago, and we’ve been in couples counseling for six months. My BF is very responsive in therapy, where we’re working on his control issues, and he says everything the therapist expects him to during a session. Twenty-four hours later, though, he’ll say, “I was listening to Dan Savage’s podcast…” then take back everything he said to our therapist. He then ignores our therapist’s advice because of some advice you gave to a differently situated couple!
Could you please tell your readers and listeners who are in counseling to ignore you and listen to their therapists?
Your No-Good Counsel
I won’t go that far, YNGC—I will not be ignored—but I will go this far: It sounds like your boyfriend is still angry about the affair and isn’t being fully honest during those therapy sessions. He’s saying what he thinks the therapist wants to hear instead of owning his anger—pardon my psychobabble—and justifies his postsession backsliding/truth-telling by pointing to some fool thing I might have said on the podcast.
You can tell him that I said it’s fine if he’s still angry, and that’s something he might want to talk with your therapist about, but I would appreciate being left out of it. And you can tell him I also said this: If he wants to stay with you, then he needs to forgive you and work on rebuilding trust. If he can’t forgive you, he needs to leave you. But to jerk you around like this—even if you’re the one who transgressed—is a dick move. And it’s not the kind of dick move that I want to be associated with so, again, he should leave me out of it.
All of that said, YNGC, I’m thinking your boyfriend isn’t being honest with your therapist—about his anger, about your relationship, about anything—because he maybekindasorta perceives these sessions to be a joint effort to shift the blame for your affair onto his shoulders. (A joint effort on the part of you and your therapist.) You say you’re “working on his control issues” during these sessions. That’s nice. If your boyfriend has control issues, YNGC, then by all means work on ’em. If you’re not working on your own issues—if your therapist doesn’t think you have any issues—then I don’t blame your boyfriend for not taking your therapist or these sessions seriously.
I’m a 24-year-old female and I’ve just started seeing a great guy. The chemistry was insane—he’s a great kisser, he loves going down—and this had me thinking that the sex would also be great.
We’ve now slept together a few times and… it could be better. He’s got all the moves—not to mention being really well endowed—but he just lies there like a dead fish. Very little thrusting and he doesn’t use his hands. I’ve asked him to do it doggie style (some improvement) and I’ve said stuff like “Faster! Harder!” (also with some improvement). But any momentum he gets is fleeting. It’s like he’s thinking too much about the act instead of losing himself in it.
I really like him and enjoy his company. But sexual compatibility is really important, too! How can I address the “dead fish” issue? Is this going to be a deal breaker?
Everything But The Sex
He appears to be concentrating (“thinking too much about the act”), he keeps thrusting to a minimum, he isn’t using his hands in ways that might heighten your arousal or his own… hmm…
You might want to ask this great guy—who does great with at least one sex act (oral), but not great with at least one other (vaginal intercourse), but has already demonstrated the ability to improve (if only fleetingly)—if he used to have a problem with premature ejaculation.
Based on your description of what he’s doing/not doing, EBTS, it sounds like your boyfriend is following the standard-issue advice given to premature ejaculators. To train themselves to last longer, preemies are advised to concentrate, to pay close attention to their arousal levels (so they don’t get to the “moment of no return” too quickly), to thrust slowly and carefully, and to not overload themselves with too much additional stimuli (groping your breasts with his hands, say, while he’s inside you). Your boyfriend may not be really “losing himself” in sex because he fears it will result in him coming too soon. This would also explain why he’s a different man—and a better lay—when he’s going down on you.
If I’m right, and PE is the issue, you can work on upping the intensity levels. It’ll take time, EBTS, but it sounds like this guy is worth the investment.
I’m a 27-year-old gay man in a three-year relationship. My boyfriend has always been the mature one, I the immature one. Yesterday, I discovered he has a special e-mail account to look for sex with strangers. I saw chats and other evidence of cheating. We are not having safe sex since quite a long time. We are planning to start living together soon. He has always told me that he is incapable of cheating and many times said that if one of us would fail and cheat, it would be me.
I haven’t talked to him. I cannot sleep.
Help My Disappointed Heart
Your boyfriend is a manipulative POS. He wanted the freedom to fuck other guys but didn’t want his boyfriend to enjoy the same freedom. So he made you feel like you were the problem—he convinced you that you were the immature one and that you were the one most likely to cheat, he maliciously undermined your self-esteem—so that you would be too busy worrying about and scrutinizing your own shortcomings to notice his. DTMFA.
BEFORE WE GO: So… I’ve got some space to kill, and not sure what to do with it.
Do I come to the defense of J. Michael Bailey, the Northwestern University prof being attacked for inviting his adult students to stay after his popular human sexuality class to watch two adults engage in a wholly relevant display of human sexuality? Do I beat the hell out of Maryland’s backstabbing, born-again bigot Sam “Political Suicide” Arora? (Don’t have the room to unpack his transgression, dear readers, so you’ll just have to trust me on this: Send a furious e-mail expressing nonspecific disgust to sam.arora@house.state.md.us.)
Do I ask my readers to go to www
.recalltherepublican8.com and make a donation? Or go off on the latest anti-gay religious bigot to be exposed as a hypocritical sexperv? (Again, no room to unpack here—you’ll just have to Google “Reverend Grant Storms,” “arrested for masturbating in a public park,” and “children were present” for all the details.)
Or do I use this space to promote the upcoming release of the It Gets Better book—It Gets Better: Coming Out, Overcoming Bullying, and Creating a Life Worth Living, edited by Dan Savage and Terry Miller—which comes out March 22 and can be preordered now at www.itgetsbetter.org or Amazon.com?
Oh shit. Out of space.
Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.
Whoa! Can I really be first?
I am so glad Sam Arora isn’t my delegate. Then again, my actual delegate is’t that much better. But Arora is a prime-time douche, that’s for sure.
That sounds like one angry boyfriend. But if I were in a serious relationship for 3 years and found out I was put at risk (Did they use condoms? Did she “know” she was physically safe?) at all, especially that early on, I’d be pretty mad too. Three years is a long time to “live a lie”.
Very true advice to HMDH, but my bet is that he is still an immature 27yo, and that’s one of the reasons the bf started dating him 3 years ago. What better way to use maturity/immaturity to your advantage in a relationship than with someone that already has immaturity built into them! Twice the sex, half the effort of undermining their sense of self!
You forgot to tell HMDH to get tested for every STD known to man and a few that aren’t. If this guy has been sleeping around on him and they aren’t using protection, who knows what he’s been exposed to?
Bullseye on why the BF in letter #1 is half-assing therapy. If I had been cheated on, went to therapy to try to rescue the relationship (or, at a minimum get the vindication of having my pain taken seriously), and the goal of therapy morphed into my control issues, I would be fucking furious. I have zero doubt that I would be pulling all kinds of passive-aggressive bullshit outside therapy, because the therapy itself was was a victim-blaming whitewash, with the official seal of approval of a licensed professional.
Yeah, I can relate a little too well to that scenario.
To EBTS and others with concerns about male PE:
Sounds like he’s otherwise GGG. Have him thrust till he feels close, climb off before climax, and play with you using his hands or go down on you for 5 min while he calms down. After he gets you off a couple times that way and climbs back on, your sensitivity will be spectacular. Repeat as many times as y’all can stand. It’ll be great.
Sam Arora is cray cray. He lied for an entire campaign and took more than $40k in campaign contributions.
Marriage is super close in #Marryland, and he mgiht have helped up lose. We’ll know for sure this week.
I have preordered this book to have on my shelf so if my kids or there friends ever face similar issues they can always go to that book. I keep a open line of communication but sometimes kids need to hear it from other sources and you did just that. Thanks Dan and Terry.
“I will not be ignored!” Heh.
From what I’ve heard and read, many therapists tend to be pretty female-oriented, men don’t often come out of sessions as the happy party. And am I just unevolved, or does it seem kind of silly to be in therapy for 6 months with a boyfriend of a few years?
I have a PE question: do the partners of these men complain that they wish intercourse lasted longer? I wonder if many men think they have a problem with PE, when they really have a problem with unrealistic expectations.
Canuck — I think it may be unevolved. I’ve seen quite a few people go this route and it seems to makes sense to me. Frankly, I wish more couples of a couple of years would enter couples therapy BEFORE getting married–a little preventative medicine, if you will. It seems like a lot less folks would be getting married and then later divorced after a few years.
Dan – March 22 is my birthday. Just sayin.
@11 A boyfriend had this problem briefly while on medication. True premature ejaculation means that they only last a few seconds, if they even get inside. Once he came while putting on the condom. Another guy I dated came after about 30 seconds. I’m not sure if that counts as premature, but it was certainly unsatisfying, and I am extremely easy to please. Of course many people have unrealistic expectation (would anyone really want the sex to go on all night?), but I think that most people are bright enough to know the difference between PE and “he doesn’t last long enough for me.”
Wow, you were actually pretty nice to the first writer.
“I cheated on my boyfriend and now we’re in counseling because of his control issues and he’s not improving.”
That relationship is over. She’s a waste of time and so is he. Grow up, learn from your mistakes, and start over. With someone else. That advice fits both of them equally.
That was easy.
From what I’ve been able to find out, it takes most people, on average a minimum of two years to recover from an affair after you end the affair by severing all contact with lover. If you can’t or won’t sever all contact then the affair has not ended and it is a waste of time to try and restore a nonviable relationship. Even if successful, the LW still has at least fifteen more before her relationship to heal. Most people lack the patience to restore a relationship
Damn– after three times through YNGC’s letter, the only thing I read now is “I cheated on my boyfriend, kept it a secret for over two years, finally admitted it and after six months of therapy, he _still_ won’t admit it’s his fault! Damn you, Dan Savage!”
@14: Wow, do you have any idea what medication he was using that made it easier to come as a side effect? Most of them just make it harder to come. I’d really like to know… that could help a lot of people.
I can’t figure out why I’ve already read the second letter. Was it posted somewhere before?
The boyfriend has all the right to be angry because she put him at risk of getting a sexually transmitted disease.
@9: Good for you, Yummietreat, but it’s “their” and “an open line of communication”.
@11: Oh EricaP, how cute. Don’t you know that half the problems between Man and Woman come down to the insecurity of the male and his delicate Ego. PE and SI (Size Issues) are front and center here.
No matter if the woman says, “No, no it’s just fine” — or worse, says nothing — the male will ask himself whether she’s really happy with him, or if she’s just being polite. And this eventually start to eat at him like Othello’s over-active imagination.
There’s no way out of this delightful little tango (Thanks God; you’ve got some sense of humor!). If he asks her to tell him The Truth, he’ll only end up searching for signs of deceit. And since men don’t discuss their emotional relationships honestly — and certainly not the topics of size and stamina — the male has nowhere else to turn for reassurance than, well, Dan Savage.
At some point one has to weigh the value of a possibly-healed relationship with the years you will spend hoping to save it.
My wife of 14 years became involved with another man 5 years ago. In the four years since I discovered their affair — writhing in pain all the while like, uh, an earthworm on a hot griddle? — their relationship has continued. Her promises to end it and her oaths of love and loyalty to me have become less and less convincing. But eventually, I got used to the hot griddle, and I don’t cry much anymore. And since I admitted to myself that it’s over — essentially shutting off all my emotions towards her and myself — I can sleep at night.
Me? I’m not sure it’s worth another ten years’ of therapy and trust-building. It’s probably just better to end it, and put the effort into finding someone new.
The other thing I was wondering about with the possible preemie was maybe a previous girlfriend kinda messed with his head about sex. I had a boyfriend who could go FOREVER – we could keep each other occupied for hours. It was awesome. Some years after our breakup, after his marriage and divorce, we fell into bed and suddenly everything was over in about 5 minutes.I was like “Dude, what happened?” He explained sheepishly that his wife had impressed upon him that it was discourteous to take so long and so he’d speeded up his routine to please her. I was kind of appalled. Seriously, who doesn’t appreciate sheet-tearing crazy monkey sex that goes on forever?
10/12 – I suppose “early therapy” is at least a sign that the catch is considered worth keeping, even if it could use a little fixing.
Canuck, you seem to half-answer your own question before you ask it. Why shouldn’t YNGC be in therapy? She loves therapy. The therapist is on her side and her BF says exactly what she wants him to say. Probably that was what motivated her telling him about her infidelity. It got him into therapy, which is right where she wants him; now if only he would stop playing these annoying GAMES!
It actually would become a lot more interesting and complicated if YNGC were male, as bang would go the presumption of therapist’s bias.
YNGC’s saying she “admitted it” nine months ago is an artistic touch if the letter wasn’t edited. What a cute way to steer the reader into the inference that poor YNGC was constantly subjected to cross-examination until she couldn’t stand it any more.
It seems as if he’ll dump her when he’s done punishing her for tricking him into therapy. Works for me.
@23: people who are easily chafed, people who are easily bored, and people who don’t have several hours free to fuck in.
There are a lot of reasons why people might like to have sex differently than you do.
Wow. Lots of hating on the chick in the first letter. She really doesn’t give a ton of details here; they could have just started going out when she cheated, or they could have been together for years or more. Plus, people are saying, “Well, he’s mad because she put him at risk for STDs.” but we don’t know whether they were having safe sex or not, or whether she had safe sex with the other guy. We just don’t know.
Also, although most people are accustomed to the lifelong therapy style, good therapy moves along pretty quickly and the therapist gets to the point promptly. 6 months is plenty of therapy; I’m not surprised if they’ve moved beyond the original reason for coming in.
And couples therapy is never about just one person(I’m looking at you here, @6!) and any therapist that is truly taking one person’s side(as opposed to calling the other person on their bullshit) is ripe for complaint to their partners and their licensing agency, because that’s the #1 no-no for therapists, and it is a serious transgression. Therapist guru says, “With great privilege comes great responsibility; do not increase the fuckedupedness of an already fucked up situation.”
Not to mention that his control issues could be pertinent to the cheating; for example, now that he doesn’t trust her, he might call her all the time to check up on her, or throw a fit if she goes out without him, or act like a controlling jerk generally. That would be something to address. But we also don’t know that. All we know for sure is that she cheated, and that her boyfriend is being insanely passive-aggressive now and blaming it on Dan.
Anyway, to sum, could we stop the hating on therapy in general? It’s not a contest to see who the therapist likes better, and the therapist is not calling a winner!
26/startfireming claims that “All we know for sure is that she cheated, and that her boyfriend is being insanely passive-aggressive now and blaming it on Dan.”
No, only the first of your three knowns is there in the letter. There’s no evidence in the letter that he’s being passive aggressive or blaming Dan. She’s blaming Dan for coming between her boyfriend and his therapist. The BF is doing things in the open with her by telling her outright what he thinks when he finds things he agrees with in Savage Love. He’s not even lying to his therapist. As she states: he goes to therapy and then a day later he does some more thinking and research about the session using Savage Love as one source of study; then he comes to different conclusions than he reached earlier when it was just the therapist and girlfriend giving feedback. That’s not passive-aggressive behavior on his part. That’s him taking what came up in the therapy session and actually thinking about it further. That, having been in couple therapy myself, is a good thing. Its quite apart from just telling the partner or therapist what he thinks they want to hear just to get the fuck out off the therapy couch.
She’s just unhappy that he has another source for understanding their relationship apart from the couples therapists. She’s unhappy that her boyfriend doesn’t stick strictly with only the therapist’s advice. She’s unhappy that her boyfriend isn’t being controlled by the therapist in a manner she of which approves. Its all about control for her. Notice that her assessment of therapy is about how responsive her BF is and how he’s working on things, but that she never mentions how its changing her?
You all want a perfect example of passive aggressive from YNGC? How about writing to Dan Savage about her boyfriend’s use of Dan Savage to defend himself when she knows that he reads Dan Savage? That’s some passive aggressive bullshit right there.
/therapy, the most expensive way to break up.
@ 20 – She never said she had unsafe sex during the affair, so why do you presume she did? Because YOU would?
@26: It sounds like the LW liked what she was hearing from the therapist (i.e., it’s about his control issues) and is trying to use that to manipulate/guilt trip the BF out of listening to or thinking about contrary views. She’s trying to gaslight the BF, and wants Dan to back up her play. And as @28 notes, knowing that the BF is a Savage Love reader, this is pretty goddamn passive-aggressive.
Your decription of how therapy is SUPPOSED TO work is usually correct, but I didn’t hear anything about how the therapy has forced her to confront her own dishonesty, or admit that it’s her job to earn back the BF’s trust. Sometimes the thereapist ends up siding with one partner simply because he/she is more fluent and comfortable using the language of therapy, and therefore is more sympathetic because he/she “gets it.”
Dear Sir,
The recent revelation that you are a different man than the one elected to Congress is of no small consequence. Your “born again” revisitation of your “morals” is disgusting in the fact that you have betrayed your people in the name of “self-realization.” A charlatan you are and I hope your god despises your two-faced nature. No God of mine would smile upon one so easy to lie to and abandon those who placed their trust in his seemingly worthy hands. Shame on you and your house.
Distrustfully Yours,
Joe
@14, oh, I agree that PE exists. But a lot of men who worry about PE are able to have PIV sex for a few minutes, which, in my book, is no longer PE, but just insecurity.
@23/25: I’m with Melony. When you’re having sex several times a week, it can’t all be “sheet-tearing crazy monkey sex that goes on forever.”
Also, even though JrzWrld’s ex-boyfriend chooses to blame it on his wife, the fact that he is (a) older, and (b) probably has more responsibilities now, both also lead to him wanting to spend less time on sex. Did you persuade him to slow down and smell the roses again, JrzWrld?
Bla bla shes a slut and hes a moper
Arora is MY delegate and I’ve already written a VERY strongly worded letter. It took a few rounds of editing to get out all the profanity, though. Bullshit bait and switch pigfucker.
And as for the 27 year old gay cuckold — wow, your boyfriend did a real number on you! “Oh, I’d never cheat — YOU’RE the immature one.” Liar. DTMFA.
That chic from the first letter is a whore slut bitch
This, a thousand times. When I did divorce law I got so fucking sick of therapists who wanted to fix not the party with the problem but the party who wasn’t as good at therapy. The erring party got a get-out-of-responsibility-free card from the therapist because they played the therapy game in a way that made the therapist most comfortable and happy.
And, given that the first words out of YNGC’s mouth on the therapy was how they were working on his issues I’m rather inclined to think that Dan’s suspicion is very spot-on.
First off,
WTF “Reverend” Grant Storms! Its always folks like that who drive the point all the way home, perpetuating this whole shameless cluelessness about exploring and celebrating sexuality in a “positive way.” Oh. I guess we call that “fear.” That whole thing makes me laugh a little bit, considering it just literally invalidates all his repressed ideas of antisexuality and Southern Decadence being something to picket about. Hah. Now he can picket about not being a chimo.
Right back at you #25.
@23 Everyone is entitled to be random as they want, as nasty or kennyg as they wanna be. Like a rabbit, or a monkey or even a a fantasy blob of plasma. Thats what makes things interesting, like rubix cube style with every partner. I always find that accepting sexual diversity is incredibly important to not only exploring your own, but maintaining a healthy attitude towards sex in general.
That being said, EBTS, girl, PE can lead to ED, which and can be entirely a mental block that can truly mess with the flow of a budding sexual relationship. Remain positive, and continue to be supportive to dude, as well as yourself. Maybe take turns being pampered, until you both figure out what permutation will be beneficial to both parties. Have lots of conversations about whats erotic to you independently, to get inside his head a bit more. Then incorporate it. Maybe the best time to talk about whats erotic is right after performing various sexual acts. Reflection, for example. Be encouraging and honest.
@32, I would have tried if I’d have decided to stick with him. We drifted apart rather amiably for other reasons (the same reasons that broke us up originally).
But my point was, previous lovers can leave residue. It takes a while to adapt sometimes. An explicit discussion about issues, hopes and expectations is probably in order for the LW and her bf.
Here is hoping the boyfriend of letterwriter No. 1 will know of her letter and read this thread. (She sure won’t show him *now on her own!)
Dude, dump that CPOS. Seriously. Therapy? For for girlfriend of a few years? Who failed to mention for a few years that she liked getting dick on the side, while you presumably remained monogamous?
I am sure hoping you are getting all kinds of poon on the side and laughing at this whole “fix the relationship” narcissism your girlfriend is focused on. In short, I hope you are “gaslighting” her while she and this therapist are trying to gaslight you.
ooo correction:
“have lots of conversations about whats erotic to you independently [From eachother] to get inside [eachother’s] head more.”
oops. sorry lots of advice but not enough articulation there.
Canuck (hi!) @10:
Agreed. I’ve seen it with male and female therapists both. Truth be told from what I’ve seen (YMMV) most therapists [outside BS patriarchal religious counseling] see the man as a problem to be solved rather than having any valid positions that need be truly considered (rather than just listened to).
And FWIW there was a great Savage Love blog thread on this very topic some months ago:
http://tinyurl.com/4qnrlbs
I have zero doubt that I would be pulling all kinds of passive-aggressive bullshit outside therapy, because the therapy itself was was a victim-blaming whitewash, with the official seal of approval of a licensed professional.
AHahahahaha…BINGO! BTDT! I allowed myself to become enmeshed with a borderline, and the gas-lighting I got was a nightmare. She snowed the therapist (he had an even bigger white knight complex than I did) in very very short order (like, um two sessions) and suddenly I was the party who was expected to be making all the changes. Thank $DEITY I had some self-confidence and working memory of not-so-crazy relationships and I punted both of them.
This is a very clear case of DTMFA – for both of them. They will be Immensely happier – immediately – I know I was and I have had healthy relationships since then.
Not to be harsh on YNGC, but even if her BF is an insecure, manipulative and controlling nutjob (ie, does need to take responsibility and change his ways), having an affair is well beyond whacking the wasps’ nest with a big stick (was the affair purportedly somehow the result of his controlling behavior?). How does the line go? Oh, right, “just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.” This is the very deepest fear of insecure people and she’s now validated that fear in a concrete way.
She should never have admitted the affair, and if her conscience wouldn’t permit that, then she should have just broken up with him. Not all problems can be “fixed” and not all people – no matter how ‘in love’ (and why oh why else persist for this length of time?) they are – are good or right for each other.
I want to ask: if he (BF) is so controlling that his behavior in some way drove her to an affair, why on earth is she still wasting time with him? Dump him and go have sex with someone who isn’t making you nutso! Of course, I suspect BF didn’t drive YNGC to the affair, rather she has a wandering eye and in the masochistic way insecure people are, he was drawn to her partly because of it…then she went and validated it.
I’m biased I’m sure – I have two major failed LTRs on my report card – but honestly, if you aren’t married and don’t have kids, and you already need therapy…just let it go and save everybody the hassle. Go see a therapist on your own if you think you want to work on some personal growth based on experiences and lessons learned in this relationship.
JrzWrld @ 38:
Heh. True, that:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.ph…
Great column this week. Funny and spot on.
to Everything But The Sex,
I had a similar problem to your boyfriend, and maybe I can offer some advice from my experience. It takes a little effort on your part, but it will be worth it in the end.
When I was having problems as a preemie, I did this. I had sex with my girlfriend exactly the same way I normally would, deep thrusting, lots of grabbing and sqeezing, eye contact, everything that would normally make good sex except for one thing, I went really really slow. Every time I was about to cum, I stopped, waited for the feeling to go away, then I started going slow again. It frustrated my girlfriend to no end, but I only had to do it once, and I never had the problem again. I have married the same girl, and we regularly have hour long sessions.
Part of the reason I think my method worked is that it made me feel in control of my dick. When you preemie, you don’t feel like you are in control of yourself. The slow-go method allowed me to feel more in control, upped my confidence, which gave me more control, etc.
I hope it works for him as well.
@43, please don’t depress me – I’m just re-entering the dating scene!
🙂
Couldn’t agree more with Dan on the first letter. My instinct also said she was trying to pass the buck to her boyfriend for her affair. If he was controlling or a jerk, that doesn’t justify an affair (especially if you’re not married or don’t have kids). He’s doing something that’s making you unhappy? The solution is simple — leave, break up with him. It was the gf’s CHOICE to react to a shitty/unhappy situation by cheating. That’s 100% on her and says loads about her character.
There are always difficult situations in life that make us unhappy, but that doesn’t give us carte blanche to run over others, especially those we supposedly love. You always have a choice in how you CHOOSE to react — you chose cheating, and I think that makes you a shitty partner.
And for the record, though I fully understand the health concerns about being exposed to an STD, I think the pain of cheating is rarely about that but more about being betrayed by someone you trusted and loved. Outside of the worst STDS (i.e. HIV), the betrayal cuts deeper and will have longer effects on a person that values honesty and loyalty than any STD.
Come now, don’t bag so much on therapists. They’re people too, and there are as many screwed up therapists as there are doctors, lawyers, judges, etc. You wouldn’t stay with a shitty doctor, so don’t stay with a shitty therapist. And by all means, complain, yelp them, whatever.
I wonder, are men tending to get the short end of the stick in therapy because they can’t communicate within it or because they won’t? And what would be a way to level the playing field? It doesn’t seem fair to make men do all the changing as far as how to talk, but since it’s “talk” therapy…
Come now, don’t bag so much on therapists. They’re people too, and there are as many screwed up therapists as there are doctors, lawyers, judges, etc. You wouldn’t stay with a shitty doctor, so don’t stay with a shitty therapist. And by all means, complain, yelp them, whatever.
I wonder, are men tending to get the short end of the stick in therapy because they can’t communicate within it or because they won’t? And what would be a way to level the playing field? It doesn’t seem fair to make men do all the changing as far as how to talk, but since it’s “talk” therapy…
secret agent @48/49:
It’s been my experience that there’s way more bad marital therapists than good ones, period. I’ve seen bad lawyers, judges, etc., but the next one is very often very much better. With marital counsellors they seem to be along a sliding scale of fucking useless.
Don’t forget, too, that many guys (myself included) who have used ’em get very wary very fast of frank communication because whatever we say ends up flying right back at our heads, either from the partner (without restraint from the therapist) or, worse, from the therapist. After a while you just stop forging a rod for your own back by just shutting up.
Weird. I didn’t italicize anything in my previous post. Or this one, for that matter.