Three months ago, my sociopathic girlfriend dumped me because I was going into the military. Afterward, I found out she was cheating on me with a married man. The one great thing about her was that she opened me up. At 22, I’d been in only a few other relationships. The sex with her was amazing, and she opened me up to different things (kinks, dirty talk, foreplay). I’m now having a hard time finding people willing to have casual-yet-kinky sex. I tried online, but the minute someone sees the “going into the army” portion of my profile, they assume I’m some sort of conservative prick. But I am liberal and open-minded and just looking to have some NSA sex before I leave for the army. Help!
Kinky Open-Minded Soldier
If the “going into the army” portion of your profile is preventing you from finding kinky NSA sex partners, KOMS, omit the “going into the army” portion of your profile. Your NSA sex partners may, after meeting you, inquire about your future plans. But you don’t need to disclose your hopes, dreams, and political leanings to potential NSA hookups, particularly if you feel that your plans are prejudicing kinksters against you.
But I’m not sure the army portion of your profile is the issue. There are a lot of conservative kinksters out there (I hear from them whenever I tear into a conservative politician in this space), and there are a lot of liberal/hippie/NPR-
listening kinksters out there who are attracted to military guys despite their politics (I hear from them whenever they want permission to cheat on their pansy-ass, hypersensitive hippie boyfriends with gruff ‘n’ buff military guys).
Have a kinky and/or adventurous friend take a look at the rest of your profile. It could be that some other part is giving off a creepy, unsafe, or inept vibe—do you mention that you hadn’t heard of foreplay until you were 22?—and it’s that part that’s turning off otherwise up-for-army-boy kinksters.
I’m a youngish (barely under 30) woman, currently involved in a great hetero relationship: My boyfriend is caring, unlike some men I’ve dated before, and I see him as a life partner. The trouble is, I find sex profoundly boring. I get vaguely “horny” maybe twice a year, and I don’t like sex.
Now I’m starting to wonder if being sexually uninterested disqualifies me from being with my BF. Judging from your past advice, it does. Is this something I should disclose so that he can leave me? I enjoy the cuddling and kissing, talking and outings that are part of coupledom, and it pains me to think I’m doomed to be alone, forever, just because shoving genitals together sits at #48 on my life priority list.
Please let me know what I should do. He’s talking about a future together.
Doesn’t Really Yearn
Either you’ve misread my past advice to the sexually disinterested, DRY, or you’ve only read mischaracterizations of my past advice on angry asexual blogs. So once more with feeling: Being asexual or minimally sexual does not disqualify you or anyone else from having a relationship or enjoying all of the swell, non-genitalia-related things that come with coupledom.
But you can’t—you shouldn’t—mislead your boyfriend about who you are.
He has a right to know how you feel about sex before he marries you, DRY. At the moment, he assumes—and it’s an entirely rational assumption—that you’re attracted to him not just in the cuddling, kissing, talking, and outing departments, but sexually as well. That you’re not all that interested in sex with him or anyone else is something he has a right to know before marriage and/or kids.
But even if your current BF leaves you, DRY, you’re not necessarily “doomed to be alone.” There are men out there who feel the same way about sex that you do. If your boyfriend dumps you, come out as very nearly asexual and go find yourself a very nearly asexual guy who wants to cuddle, kiss, talk, and out. And if you do ultimately wind up alone, DRY, no whining: There are lots of happily partnered asexuals out there and lots of unhappy sexuals who wound up alone despite their interest in sex.
My husband and I hired an electrician, whom I will call “Sparky.” We hired Sparky once before, and he was completely professional. One quirk: He would call me “Ma’am” instead of my name.
Halfway through Sparky’s four-hour re-wiring marathon in our kitchen, he handed me an envelope and asked me to fill out a survey regarding his service. I read the following: “My name is Mistress [REDACTED] and I control the male who just gave you this letter. He and I live the lifestyle of Female Supremacy. In our lifestyle of Matriarchy, women issue direction and men obey.”
The letter went on to ask for feedback about his performance, whether he was appropriately submissive, whether he addressed me as “Ma’am” or “Mistress,” and it ended: “To obtain the best possible service, order this male to give you his key. Keep the key until you are completely satisfied with his attitude or work. Use him as you wish. He must obey.”
I don’t know much about Dom/sub culture, Dan, but I can’t shake the feeling that by hiring this particular electrician, I was unwittingly included in his sex life, and that totally creeps me out. Am I wrong? Are we judgmental prudes if we never hire Sparky ever again?
Apparently Naive Housewife
You were dragged into Sparky’s sex life not when you hired him, ANH, but when he made the choice—perhaps he felt he was just following orders—to hand you that envelope. At that point, he involved you in his sex life, which was rude and unprofessional.
Most women who aren’t interested in sharing an erotic moment with Sparky—because they’re not into Dom/sub play or not into Sparky—would feel uncomfortable reading that letter, which suddenly sexualized a nonsexual exchange of goods and services. Some women would feel deeply violated. Making women feel uncomfortable or unsafe in their own homes by springing your erotic submission on them—and requiring them to participate without first obtaining their explicit consent—is sexual aggression masquerading as erotic submission.
And it’s not okay.
Professional Dom, sex bomb, and sex blogger Mistress Matisse (www.mistressmatisse.com) agrees with me: “That’s totally inappropriate,” Matisse said in an e-mail. “Those folks did not agree, either overtly or by any action, to be involved in topping that man. If his Mistress really exists, then they are both complicit in creepiness.”
If I were you, ANH, I wouldn’t hire Sparky again. Not because I wouldn’t mind having a submissive electrician around the house—that sounds like fun, actually—but because I wouldn’t want an electrician around the house, submissive or not, who displayed poor judgment and had no boundaries.
CONFIDENTIAL TO KIMBO: It sounds like you made the right choice when you DTMFA’d that dude.
Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.
I was very disappointed in Dan’s response to DRY’s letter. Medications, including bc, can cause her asexual symptoms…hormonal testing should have been addressed. Lack of desire is directly related to hormonal problems! Antidepressants and other meds can make someone totally have no interest in sex…these issues should be ruled out rather than just taking her lack of interest at face value.
Until I started taking supplements to boost my libido, I felt just like DRY…now I feel totally sexual and even achieve orgasm when I couldn’t before. Just sayin it should be ruled out.
@5,9 just to pile on here…
Those two sentences, taken together, certainly imply that she was a piece of work, and that there was more back-story than needed to be explicitly included in the letter.
…and he sure wouldn’t be the first guy to discover that slightly nuts goes along with wild in bed…something about ‘crazy in the head, crazy in the bed’. She’s got a thing for unavailable guys…wouldn’t surprise a dose of promiscuity tossed in with that low self esteem. Applies to the guys too.
I am a woman with a sex drive that I consider normal, but apparently is considered high by society at large. I could happily fuck someone twice a day if I had the time.
So… I may be insensitive here, but in reference to DRY, I just don’t get what the hell people are thinking when they enter in to relationships sometimes.
I am going to leave aside whatever underlying issues may be behind her low to nonexistent interest in sex as I know nothing about them.
She doesn’t say how long she and they boyfriend have been together, but I am going to assume it’s at least a year or two, or she wouldn’t be talking about seeing her boyfriend as a “life partner.” They’ve been together for that long and they only have sex once or twice a year?
If so, surely the boyfriend must know about her low sex drive already.
The other possibility would be that she fucks him a couple of times a week even though she doesn’t want to. If so, I’m sure neither one of them can possibly enjoy the sex very much.
Why would you want to make a life time commitment to someone you don’t communicate properly with? Let alone someone you are clearly not sexually compatible with?
Either TALK to each other and figure out your problems before you make them worse by committing to each other for life. Or, be with someone else who doesn’t want to have sex and let us sexual women have the guys who are into sex.
Also, why do so many guys seem content to be with women with low sex drives when it doesn’t match their own libido? Is it so they can feel manlier because they are the more sexual partner?
Also, why do so many guys seem content to be with women with low sex drives when it doesn’t match their own libido? Is it so they can feel manlier because they are the more sexual partner?
Probably guys just assume women have lower sex drives because that’s the stereotype. It just doesn’t occur to them that all those “married people never have sex anymore” jokes are just jokes, not destiny.
But also, men and women are constantly told that marriage should be about True Love and that True Love conquers everything. Also, society tells us (or women, anyway; I’m not sure if men get it the same amount) that caring about our partner’s looks or sex drive means that we are horrible and shallow.
It’s all about someone’s beautiful soul, y’know? Don’t worry if you and your partner have different libidos and different life goals and different religions and only one of you wants kids…if you love each other you will magically transcend these difference.
Yeah, right. 😛
Sparky’s actions were completely inappropriate and unprofessional, but I don’t see how they were criminal. Violating what law, exactly?
I think EricaP is correct about DRY, and her questions are not patronizing or presumptuous. It is worth asking a few more questions about how DRY knows she is asexual, before encouraging what could be a major crisis in an otherwise happy relationship. Some people really are asexual and happy that way, but others arrive at that situation because of a hormonal imbalance or other experiences. If she’s certain, then she can ignore that part of the advice; however, plenty of other people might not realize that medical or other causes could be contributing to their asexuality. A visit to the doctor, a change in medication (birth control and antidepressants can be major culprits here), a thyroid check, or other simple steps could uncover new information.
What makes me wonder about DRY, in particular, is that she starts off saying that sex in general is boring, and she dislikes it, but by the end of the letter we see that she likes other forms of physical intimacy (kissing, cuddling), and describes “sex” specifically as “shoving genitals together”. Is that the sum of what sex has been like, for her? I don’t necessarily need to feel aroused to enjoy doing “sexual” things with my spouse besides genital “shoving”. The negativity of that description does make me wonder about DRY’s prior experiences. Is it like that even on the few occasions when she feels horny, for example? Because someone could have a rare sex drive, but still enjoy sex on those few occasions when the mood arose.
Also, why do so many guys seem content to be with women with low sex drives when it doesn’t match their own libido? Is it so they can feel manlier because they are the more sexual partner?
Um, I’d take a WAG that “content” is not the word. However, even men with high libidos are attracted to more than just the sex. I’ve had a bad habit of falling for gals who are not sexually matched well but otherwise perfect. And no, it has quite the opposite effect: it leaves you feeling inadequate since you can’t seem to excite or please them.
I got dragged into a Sparky situation that was AWFUL. Met a guy online, we really clicked, had talked about ongoing dating, that I was over casual stuff etc. We had an amazing first date in a park with homemade cookies and it ended up going all day and into the night and we then ended up in bed – he dragged out a bit of kink and wanted to be tied up but whatever. It was hot. I felt a bit bad I’d slept with him on first date since we’d been talking more about dating and ongoing rather than NSA but he reassured me all was good.
Never heard from him again and he ignored all contact from me. About six months later I got an email saying he was in a Dom/Sub relationship and his mistress had set him the challenge of seducing a girl online, getting her into bed with ideas of a relationship and then NEVER CONTACTING HER AGAIN. But it turns out something had gone wrong for him in this and the Dom was angry and now he was sad and would I fix the situation…
The sense of violation I felt at having been dragged into someone’s games like that was horrid.
@41 Forlorn,
“It feels like something that felt like part of being alive, something vibrant, some intrinsic, life-affirming, joyous part of me is being painfully starved to death.”
Wow, in the final year of my last relationship, I think I wrote at least journal entry that used those same words, almost VERBATIM.
It *is* like part of you is starving. Slowly. It’s AWFUL.
I finally found the strength to end it, and that was horrible in the short-term because although we were mismatched, we did care greatly for each other. But in the long-term… I am SO much happier now.
You don’t have to live like that forever. I didn’t. There is hope.
@107 – well, Larry Craig was arrested for nothing more than tapping his foot in an airport bathroom stall. Surely surprising a woman in her own home with an unsolicited and unwanted offer of sexual submission is worse than THAT.
@105 why do so many guys seem content to be with women with low sex drives…Is it so they can feel manlier because they are the more sexual partner?
106/109 have given good answers, but also: men who think sex is dirty (or who are insecure) sometimes marry women who aren’t sexual, because that seems safer. That way, they won’t have to worry that their wife is out slutting around. That reasoning comes around and bites them on the butt, of course.
@110 – I bet your guy came up with that story as an attempt to explain why he had dropped the ball before. Did you ever meet the Domme or see any evidence she existed?
Personally, I don’t have a hatred of sex (I wouldn’t love Dan’s columns/podcast/books so much if I did), and I find other asexuals who are all “eww, sex is icky and gross” a little immature. I just find it interesting in a really detached, clinical sort of way when it doesn’t personally involve me.
I thought Dan’s advice to DRY (as his advice as been whenever this subject pops up) was spot on. Full disclosure is so important to a happy relationship, and the price can be pretty steep. When I finally realized, after years and years and years of various sexual contact, that not only did I never reach orgasm with my partners (when I can do it just fine by myself) and all my bucking and moaning was really more like playacting, but that actual act of having sex really did bore me, my then partner and I broke up after trying to “fix” the “problem” of my lack of libido.
In the end, he deserved a more enthusiastic partner and I deserved a more understanding one.
It sucked, and the years afterwards sucked too. But that’s life, and if I wanted to really be happy in a relationship, I knew I had to be honest and upfront, and know it was going to be a while, if ever, before I could find someone who was compatible. DRY might have to face that possibility and understand that is probably sucks less than living a lie for years in order to not be alone.
But I got lucky, really lucky. My current beau and I have been together for 3 years. His libido isn’t completely nonexistent, so yeah, about every couple of months or so, I do lie back and let him do his thing. It’s not something I’m crazy about, but like going with seeing a band that you don’t like with your partner, it’s a compromise.
@105
I think for some of us, the NRE combined with a desire to please led to “adequate enough” sexual frequency that stuck around just long enough for the exchanging of rings and the appearance of a pink plus symbol on a pee soaked stick. And once the reveal was let loose, and the disclosure that she really wasn’t into it back then, that she was doing it solely to please you, well, you’ve already got a lot invested now, don’t you? That and the naïve belief that it was something you could “work” on, something that might get better once she reached her “prime” or went off of hormonal birth control or…
So you bottle it up and push it down because your kids love their family and as long as you don’t let the insecurity and resentment surface everything is okay. You spend your time and energy hoping you can stick it out another ten or twelve years, because blowing up your relationship with your spouse is the last thing you want to do to your kids. And so you grasp on to that sliver of hope in the face of a wall of doubt buttressed by years of near-constant rejection that maybe when you’re 50 someone will still find you attractive enough. And you count yourself lucky that she’s willing to put out once a month, unlike those poor souls who see nothing for months or years at a stretch.
@73…I feel your experiences/impressions of asexuals are limited and/or lopsided. Many in the community are in fact sex positive. I for one find it facsinating in a discover channel ind of way.
I also know many sexual people who find genitals gross, but put up with them for the pleasure.
Asexual Love
@ 106
I agree, I think the “true love” fallacy (nothing else matters) is huge. However, I find it mind-boggling that so many people set full course ahead into mortgages and kids with people they don’t feel sexually attracted to.
I realize it can be hard to leave someone you love/like, but the one time I was in the position of being in a long-term relationship with little to no sexual spark I felt my entire being was slowly suffocating. Between that and the pain of leaving, leaving seemed like the only option.
I guess my bottom line here is that while her boyfriend is probably miserable already, I doubt DRY herself is as happy as she potentially could be with him. As much as she “loves” him she may find she’s actually pretty interested in sex with someone else. Just a thought…
In my experience (I am not a whole lot older than her) a strong mental connection tends to equal good sex. But then I know I am in the minority in prioritizing that aspect of a relationship.
DRY might want to look for the short story “Innocence” by Harold Brodkey. It is a story of a young woman who although she was having regular sex with her boyfriend, eventually learned that there was more to sex than she thought when she had her first orgasm.
@15 pirate jenny: Don’t know how old you are, but none of the guys I have known since I was in college (17 years now) has ever been happy being with a partner who had a low sex drive. Not one. But I have heard from a number of guys with spouses who either come to either dislike or become apathetic to sex over time (delwalk @115 summarizes that very well).
My wife and I used to have sex ten times per week before marriage (in our late twenties). Then it fell off to half as often after the ring went on. Then, after the first child, it went to twice per week. Orgasms aren’t the issue, as EricaP and others often speculate on. Since we’ve been together, I have always given her 3+ orgasms for every one of mine.
My personal frequency sounds like the statistical average for people in long term marriages, bit that does not mean we like the situation. I would realistically like to have sex 3-5 times per week, and I consider the twice per week I get to be maintenance sex…any less over a few months and my sexual tension/frustration becomes palpable. And, even though I have kids, I would probably walk if once per week were the norm for half a year or more.
My wife used to enjoy it ten times per week ten years ago, so why the drop off? Kids? Yeah. No time? Yeah. Tired? Yeah. All of these life factors have been discussed over the years in Dan’s column….nothing new. But the real root of the drop off: “I don’t want to have sex as often as you.” Straight from my wife’s mouth, and she’s not interested in exploring why.
From what I’ve learned my situation is pretty typical for a married man of approximate middle age.
Sorry, @105 and @117 pirate jenny…
@119, your situation is so universal it seems to be a right of passage for the American man married w children. Sad but true. Perhaps Canuck can teach a course to married housewives since she seems to have as good a grasp on male sexuality as anyone I have read north of Savage.
Take consolation from reading Savage that it could be waaaay worse…..
@119 – I think your situation of getting sex twice a week is actually way better than average for a married man of approximately middle age. But maybe the drop-off is similar in proportion, since you started from a position of getting a lot of sex.
(Averages are posted at http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/resources…)
What happens when you ask your wife if you can get a girlfriend on the side, or see an escort once a week?
I have say, I’m flabbergasted to read this: “I would probably walk if once per week were the norm.” What exactly would you walk to? How easy do you expect it will be to find a woman you like who want sex with you more than once a week? I like sex (and, no, it’s not all about the orgasm), but I think I could be creative and find ways to involve my husband in my sexuality without needing specific acts if they were taken off the table through a crippling accident or disease, or just disinterest.
Sorry, that last parag was a little incoherent. I was trying to get at the idea that Dan has raised, that guys can define sex more broadly, and then they’d be getting more “sex.”
Soldier, don’t worry about your girl friend leaving you because your “joining” the military. Look at it this way, if your ex-girl friend continues to act this way when she thinks she’s ready for a committed relationship, it wont happen. On the other hand, you will find someone that will satisfy you and it will be better than what you was expecting.
Honestly, Erica, if that were the norm and the wife did not allow me to find sex elsewhere, I would get a divorce and walk to the other end of town. Then I would spend a couple years perfecting my Spanish and Mandarin and possibly move overseas (once my kids were a few years older).
Sex is one of the things that connects me with my wife, and in its absence I slowly lose that connection (I have felt that a few times in the course of the marriage). Resentment and stress built up, and I questioned whether I was living an ultimately healthy life and whether I was happy. I’m glad that it never went farther than that, and have learned that marriages go through such periods. But, if it became anything like what delwalk describes…no way, no how.
To me that’s so strange. You would feel more connected to a woman with whom you don’t share a language (Mandarin takes 10 years, I’m told), but who would screw you 5 times a week if you bring her and her family out of poverty. I believe you, but my brain finds that impossible to understand.
So what does your wife say about getting outside sex?
“And, even though I have kids, I would probably walk if once per week were the norm for half a year or more.”
So, suffering through six months of once-a-week sex would be worse than walking out and fucking your kids and wife up emotionally for life. Wow, those are some ethics. How did your marriage ever survive late pregnancy and post-partum, one wonders?
Why bother to identify a whole list of reasons why it’s more difficult now to have frequent sex (kids, no time, tired), if you’re going to count only one statement from your wife as The Reason: she wants it less often than you. Could all these reasons, including that last one, have anything to do with one another? What measures have you taken to make her more likely to want it more often (e.g. regarding kids, no time, and tired)? I feel like we’d get a rather different story, if we asked for her side of it.
DRY should tell her partner how she feels about their sex life. And then, they both should look out for better sexually suited partners.
No one, not even DRY herself, can say whether her low sex drive will remain that way with another partner. But it’s safe to assume that if sex is boring with her partner now, it will get worse 10 or 20 years from now. Why stay together when you know you’ll both be miserable – and when luckily no kids are involved yet ? Sexual incompatibility is nobody’s fault, really. It should be talked about openly.
@115 : I’m happy that for once it’s a guy who’s writing down reasons why considerate people may remain in a less-than-perfect marriage. Good for you !
A cautionnary tale of two nice people with mismatched sex drives.
This pretty and nice female friend of mine, with a lot more experience than me in premarital sex, married a very good looking and decent guy with little to no experience. His sex drive was never high, and it lowered to the point that there was no sex after the conception of Baby#3 for 1-2 years. Then she initiated sex one last time and Baby#4 was conceived. No sex during pregnancy, as usual – and one year after Baby#4 was born she was so fed up she took a lover.
But ! She believes in love and fidelity. So, when she fell in love with her side piece, a no-good guy with whom she had amazing sex, she divorced. Amazingly, her husband didn’t take it too bad, and told her that he had had a side piece too for some months.
They are both nice people, they don’t hate each other and they could stay together for the sake of the kids but they won’t because “she feels bad by cheating and she wants to be true to her own self”. She’s my friend and I don’t judge her – but it still feels sad.
If you have mismatched libidos, don’t marry.
@127 – I agree with your second paragraph. And although I completly understand the “why” of less frequency(kids, exhaustion, etc.) it still builds up tension and breaks down the connection between us. I call it male PMS.
@128 EricaP – if I suggested outside action my wife would be emotionally hurt. She would also step it up, I am sure, but it would be the kind of obligatory sex that breeds resentment.
As @129 said, none of this is worth destroying an otherwise good relationship and it certainly isn’t worth fucking up your kids.
I completely agree with Dan regarding the creepy electrician. I would add one thing though. I would have filed a report with the police. Better to be safe than sorry.
@115 That and the naïve belief that it was something you could “work” on, something that might get better once she reached her “prime”
BINGO! I wasted 13 years like this. I’m deeply involved (and whinged about it on here before) with someone who might be a repeat of this…and getting ready to bail…before the pink plus symbol shows up. Sure, it’s “baggage” but I remain deeply skeptical that “working on it” is of any use at all…not that all people are hopeless, but you can’t teach rhythm.
@132 – I understand you believe that it’s not possible to bring up the idea. You’re worried about hurting her, but here you are, in pain. I’m saying that nothing conveys the reality of your pain into a wife’s head like mentioning outside sex.
I honestly thought my husband and I were fine with once a week sex for ten years. But apparently things weren’t fine; I just didn’t know that until he stepped out.
Damn! Is there listing for sub handymen on Angie’s List or something! Ickyness for ANH aside, where can I order up one of those!?!
@131 “If you have mismatched libidos, don’t marry.” – all very well & good at the start, problem is, mismatch often develops later with kids and ltr, and it stinks.
@105 “why do so many guys seem content to be with women with low sex drives” – sometimes the nice guys are suffering in silence, and they get accused of whining if they say anything because of their trivial animal desires. They are not content, and will hate you into their dotage.
@132 “male PMS” – oh, you’re not allowed to have that.
“none of this is worth destroying an otherwise good relationship and it certainly isn’t worth fucking up your kids” – um, I think the responsibility is shared here. It may not be worth it to you, other people find the situation unbearable.
@ Approaching 40 in LA
Nice assumption that foreign ladies are willing to put out more. Very non-racist. That’s exactly what Latina and Chinese women need, a rich American saviour who deigns to learn some of their language in exchange for hot racialized sex pretzel behaviour. Maybe she’ll put on a cheongsam or call you Papi too?
#119: You need to take your wife out to dinner, treat her like someone you are dating. How much time would it take you to do that?
Also, when the kids are grown up and out of the house, your wife might surprise you and become more interested in sex.
#122 EricaP: As a married man of approximately middle age, 7-10 times a week seems to be our pattern – of course i treat my wife like a girlfriend.
Amos@140 – I’m happy for you, but are you saying that you’re the norm?
The Kinsey institute surveyed 2000 men, and found that for married guys in their thirties and forties, roughly half were having sex once a week.
1/3 of married men in their thirties had more sex than that, but only 6% were getting it four times a week or more.
1/4 of married men in their forties had sex more than once a week, but only 4% were getting it four times a week or more.
I’ll note that only 1% of men in their 50s were getting sex four times a week or more.
Presumably this includes men who are also having sex with other women besides their wives.
http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/resources…
My boyfriend spent 25 years with a woman who a) didn’t like sex very much; b) didn’t allow any noise during sex at all (WTF?); c) never gave him a blow job; d) thought penises were “icky”.
He stayed around for the kids, but as so many men have referenced above, he was emotionally a wreck.
Let me just say, he is one damned happy camper now. After 8 months, we are still not past the point of daily sex, and we are both loving it.
@141
And as I’ve mentioned on here before some of us use the times per month, months per time, and occasionally, times per year system.
@Approaching 40:
Figure out some plan to talk to her about it. Start far away from the bitter end of things and then over a number of conversations work your way towards the prospect of ending it. If you maintain your position that you are both committed to your relationship and that sex is a basic need then hopefully you will be able to work something out.
That’s my hope anyway. I’m on like conversation 3 this weekend. So far so good.
@142
I normally keep unregistered comments off but I just looked at yours on a whim. Let me just say (as a devout atheist mind you) GOD BLESS YOU.
“It may not be worth it to you, other people find the situation unbearable.”
Really? Having sex once per week is such an unbearable situation that a husband and father could ditch his wife and children?
I understand that some people value sex a lot, but if you are going to have kids, you have already made the choice to value the children more highly than many other personal preferences. (Things like sleep and not being vomited or pooped on also spring to mind!) This is not to say you have to give up all sexual gratification, but some perspective, please: Approaching40 is having sex twice a week, and is ready to walk if the rate slows to once a week. And he plans to walk to a weird, racist place.
Anyway, if you have special sexual needs that are a dealbreaker, maybe it’s your job to arrange that with a spouse before you agree to marry. And if you have needs like this which are often interrupted by having children, then maybe you shouldn’t inflict yourself on innocent children as a parent.
Really? Having sex once per week is such an unbearable situation that a husband and father could ditch his wife and children?
In fairness, if someone leaves their spouse but pays child support and remains in the kids’ lives then it’s not ditching the children. And in fact a lot of kids feel a palpable lift in household tension after their parents break up because, guess what, when you live with two people who resent the shit out of each other, you can usually tell. I think people put too much emphasis on parents staying together, like simply living under the same roof is all you need to make the kids turn out happy and well-adjusted.
I think being a good role model for your kids is a huge factor in making sure they grow up well – and this includes demonstrating how to discuss issues openly with your partner, make loving compromises in order to keep the relationship healthy, and – if necessary – knowing when to give up.
Anyway. I, too, would leave my partner if he was giving me substantially less sexual activity than I wanted (“sexual activity” to me includes everything from actual intercourse to him snuggling up and encouraging me as I masturbate). I’ve already been married to someone who seemed to hate every aspect of my sexuality; no way am I going through that again.
And although I don’t have kids, my answer wouldn’t change if I did. Life is short and I want to feel loved and attractive and have orgasms.
@147 “Life is short and I want to feel loved and attractive and have orgasms.”
Amen.
I applaud Sparky’s bravery. We could all be a little more open and humorous with our humanity. That said, I would also applaud Sparky’s victim slapping him and kicking him out. We’re so afraid of each other its a real shame. We should — imho — drop our ridiculous boundaries, be ourselves and let life happen a little bit. Its a great story, one that I would love telling over and over at a party if it happened to me. Of course, I would also have messed with him a bit to make it a little more fun and less ‘scary’.
Will respond to comments later…just got back from work and am taking the family out to dinner (yeah, I actually do that). I understood that I would get several negative comments (from all of the angles that have surfaced) when I wrote what I did @127. I’ll try to address them all.
@147
” ‘sexual activity’ to me includes everything from actual intercourse to him snuggling up and encouraging me as I masturbate”
Yeah, I tried for that deal too and was denied.
What if you were loved, made to feel attractive, and told that you can have all the orgasms you want by yourself because (insert reasonable temporary excuse here)? And then those excuses just keep rolling in over the years. Sprinkle in just enough sex with each other that you can’t claim that you’ve been cut off.
I ask for your input because I’d like all the prep I can get for that disussion with her. If people agree that twice a week isn’t over the line yet then what is? Is once a month over the line?
@151, Can you say: “If this activity isn’t important to you, do you mind if I share it with someone else?” If it is important and should be just for the two of you, then maybe she could show up for it once or twice a week. Have you tried scheduling for Friday nights (after a date-night, away from your kids?) (Yes, once a month is over the line, for most sexual people.)
jenesasquatch,
(And Approaching 40 in LA),
There’s no “appropriate” level of frequency; it’s what you need.
Tell her. Tell her what you have told us. But tell her how much you love her and would rather stay with her and meet your sexual needs with her.
Show her this thread–don’t tell her who you are, or even that you’re a contributor– just that the people on it are saying things that resonate for you.
I hope you are able to come to a new level of sexual fulfillment in your marriages.
If people agree that twice a week isn’t over the line yet then what is? Is once a month over the line?
I don’t see how there could possibly be a universal standard of How Much Sex We Are All Entitled To…and even if there was, so what? The fact of the matter is, you’re really unhappy with the state of things. Doesn’t matter whether your wife is having sex with you once a week or once a day – you’re not getting what you need out of the relationship. So, it’s time for either a compromise or a breakup.
Make sure not to approach the discussion in a blamey way but in a “we want different things” way, of course, because her lower sex drive is no less valid than your higher one.
Actually…maybe I’m just way too much of a horndog to understand where your wife is coming from, but I sort of think that if she won’t even be in the room with you while you jerk off, it goes beyond a sex drive issue and has become an issue of personal resentment. Maybe she’s subconsciously taking revenge for things she’s wanted from you and isn’t getting.
So maybe instead of being all “listen, I need more sex” you should ask if she’s getting what she needs out of your relationship. Scope out any resentments she might have, try to fix ’em, and then see if the sex stuff picks up on its own.
(And if it doesn’t, it’s Discussion Time)
Just a thought.
@152
This activity is so important to her that it should only be between us.
A schedule would similarly be a cosmic disaster, a virtual one step removed from my forcing myself on her.
A lot of this is tricky because she knows how essential her enthusiastic participation is to me. It’s not sex without that. She also knows that I’ve been sexually assaulted so I understand what that’s about. There are lots of pitfalls in trying to deal with this.
The conclusion I came to was that I should approach it from the angle of the excuses. Addressing the sex directly went nowhere mostly because of the problem of her feeling forced.
I too have to go. Back tomorrow.
@154
Yeah, that’s all good advice. A big thing with her is her fixed, and frankly quite narrow definition of the way her sex life is going to be. The discussion is in progress.