When I was 14, my parents informed me that I had a half brother. He was my father’s son by another woman. My parents were already married when my brother was born, but I hadn’t come along yet. It was a huge scandal when it happened. My half brother came to live with us after his mother died. He was 16. My half brother got me pregnant. He didn’t rape me; I wanted to have sex with him. Everyone in the family found out—huge scandal number two—and it took me years to get over it and stop blaming myself.
Now I’m 26 and engaged. What do I tell my fiancé? My parents wound up divorcing—my mother called the police on my half brother and tried to physically prevent me from getting an abortion—and I don’t speak to her anymore. But my father and brother are still in my life.
I get panic attacks when I think about having to tell my fiancé about any of this, Dan, because I don’t want him to see me as sick. But if I don’t tell him, he’ll hear about it from someone else. What do I do?
The Sister Act
“This could happen to anyone,” says Debra Lieberman, assistant professor of psychology at the University of Miami.
A quick clarification: Lieberman means this could happen to anyone who meets a sibling under similar circumstances.
Coresidence throughout childhood—particularly early childhood—creates sexual aversion in adulthood, explains Lieberman, who has studied “sibling incest avoidance” extensively. It’s a phenomenon called the “Westermarck effect,” and it doesn’t just affect biological siblings; adults who grew up in the same home experience the same feelings of sexual revulsion.
“TSA and her half brother were not raised throughout childhood together and neither observed his or her mother caring for the other as an infant,” explains Lieberman. “These are the two cues that have been shown to lead to the categorization of another as a sibling. When these cues are present, strong sexual aversions tend to develop. Without these cues, no natural sexual aversion will develop.”
(What this means, of course, is that everybody who read TSA’s letter and thought, “What a sicko! I would never fuck any of my siblings!” needs to back the fuck off. If your parents had surprised you with a long-lost sibling when you were 14, dear readers, you, too, could be facing an extremely awkward conversation with your fiancé. There but for the grace of God, etc.)
So what, if anything, should you tell the man you’re about to marry, TSA?
“If it were me,” says Lieberman, “I would probably say something. I would explain the situation and the science. Unfortunately, this might gross out her fiancé, especially if he has sisters. But living with this stress”—the fear that he’ll find out at some point—”does not seem like a happy life.”
I agree with Lieberman: Tell your fiancé what happened, TSA. Emphasize that you were young, confused, and Westermarck-effect-deprived. You can also refer him to Lieberman’s website—www.debralieberman
.com—where he can peruse the research.
Good luck, TSA.
I’m a 23-year-old female in a monogamish relationship—thank you for that word!—with my wonderful boyfriend of two years. I moved away last year to attend graduate school, and we agreed it was okay to sleep with other people while we’re apart. The last person I slept with was an acquaintance who knew both of us and understood what the deal was with our relationship. My question is, if I’m just looking for casual sex or a one-night stand, should I make it clear that we’re just going to have sex and I’m not interested in dating? How much should I tell the person I’m trying to pick up about a significant other they won’t ever meet?
Full Disclosure Necessary, Yathink?
If you meet a guy in a bar, exchange four words with him (and two of them are “Open up!” right before he spits a Jäger shot into your mouth), and you wind up back at your place, FDNY, the person you’re about to fuck can reasonably make two assumptions: (1) you’re a slut (in the sex-positive, reclaiming-that-word, sisterhood-is-powerful, drink-Jäger-out-of-a-hot-guy’s-mouth sense of the term), and (2) he’s unlikely to see you again. Under circumstances like these, FDNY, you are not obligated to disclose your relationship status. The only things you’re obligated to disclose are the precise kind of clitoral stimulation you require and the exact time you’ll need him out of your apartment…
But if a nice boy asks you out on something that your parents and steampunks call a “date,” and he explains that you’re really, really special, and he refrains from spitting Jäger shots into your mouth, you are obligated to disclose your relationship status to him, lest he make the entirely reasonable assumption that you’re single and interested in him, too.
I am in love with an intelligent woman. She is exactly what I’ve always wanted: smart, articulate, independent, and friggin’ beautiful. The thing is, we fight constantly. Everything is going well, and then I say the wrong thing or use the wrong tone, and she blows up. In these fights, I am required to remain calm, but she can yell, scream, mock, or ridicule. These fights sometimes end in physical confrontations that she instigates. The therapist we’re seeing takes my side, but still nothing gets better. Her feelings are the only ones that matter. I’m afraid to read the advice you’re going to give me.
Confused, Pissed, and Sad
You don’t mention your own looks, CPAS, but I’m guessing there’s a big looks gap in this relationship, i.e., your girlfriend is objectively hot, while you fall somewhere between “Ron Jeremy” and “unconventionally attractive” on the male beauty spectrum. And that’s not an accident: She knows that you think you’re unlikely to do better than her, looks-wise, and that allows her to be just as psycho as she wants to be. Because she knows you’re not going anywhere.
Here’s the advice you were afraid of, CPAS: Go somewhere, anywhere, that she isn’t. You wouldn’t be putting up with this shit if this woman’s outsides were as ugly as her insides.
DTMFA.
What happened to your column? I remember back when your columns involved wonderful details about things like proper dildo protocol, indulging odd fetishes, and funny sex adventures. Now it’s all about the philosophy of what loving relationships should truly entail. I miss the old Dan who would coach readers on how to put large things inside themselves and recount funny/titillating anecdotes.
Where’s My Dirt?
Google happened to my column.
Back in the getting-large-things-inside-my-readers days, WMD, people would write me and ask, “How do I get this large thing inside of me?” Now people with large things can turn to Google for information about how to get their large things inside themselves. Another question I used to get all the time: “What’s a cock ring?” Now cock rings have their own Wiki page.
There’s just so much good, basic info about sex online—including basic how-to info—that people don’t have to ask me for basic information about fetishes or kinks or dildo protocols anymore. So most of the questions I get nowadays, and most of the ones I answer, are about relationships. Don’t blame me, WMD, blame Google’s algorithms.
It has been a long time since I filled a column or two with titillating sex anecdotes. I’m on vacation right now, so… wow me with your best/kinkiest/craziest vacation-sex stories, dear readers, and I’ll fill next week’s column with ’em.
Find the Savage Lovecast (my weekly podcast) every Tuesday at thestranger.com/savage.
@34: Protect? “tried to physically prevent me from getting an abortion” sounds like protection to you?
Me thinks that last entry was about a borderline woman.
I don’t think CPAS is necessarily ugly, or even less attractive than his bitchy girlfriend but I’m sure there is some kind of imbalance there. Maybe he’s a low-status man (which, in the het world, Dan, doesn’t necessarily mean physically unattractive – as it does for women and gay men – but maybe something like nerdy, poor, unambitious or passive). Low-status men have problems finding partners and CPAS may be reluctant to give up on this miserable relationship for the same reason he may have rounded his girlfriend up to ‘beautiful’. He may fear this is as good as it’s going to get.
I agree with the people who say you missed it here, Dan… My own brother is like CPAS.. he’s in a marriage with a woman who treats him like this when they fight, including the physical hitting. They both are head-turners.
Confused, Pissed, and Sad/CPAS: Your GF sounds like a classic narcissist. I’m currently in therapy to get over the years of abuse my horrid narcissistic mother heaped on me. LEAVE THIS WOMAN! Narcissists care nothing for anyone else–they continually need their own feelings validated and egos constantly boosted by the dupes who hang around them. (And they’re good at duping–most narcissists are attractive and charming people, so it’s easy to get sucked in by one.) Narcissists manipulate those around them, cutting them down, invalidating their experiences and feelings. They’re all around horrible, horrible people. And therapy NEVER works on them, because as far as they’re concerned, they’re perfect; the problem is with everyone else. Get out now.
@47 My premise inferred a monogamous relationship and nothing TSA wrote would indicate otherwise. A friend can become a lover, but can a lover become just a friend? People are divided on the issue. Only with respect to a closed hetero relationship, once you have been intimate with someone there is always some risk, given the right set of circumstances, of becoming intimate with that person again. Certain boundaries have already been crossed. I assume both of you were honest about the nature of your relationships with your exes before getting married. It is one thing to know in advance what you are getting into and another to have its sprung on you as a surprise sometime in the future. Prior knowledge alters the dynamic. Some people argue that the past doesn’t matter, which is true when the past is truly the past. However, is that really true when you have a continuing relationship with an ex?
To those of you who used rape as an analogy. The basic flaw with that analogy is that unless a child results from the rape (the father sometimes has certain legal rights) the victim doesn’t normally have a continuing relationship with the rapist.
As a conversation starter, TSA could watch John Sayles’s Lonestar. It’s a good movie with a bit of a half-sibling thing at the end.
@21 – Yes, me too. And that is exactly what I thought, but just that letter is not enough to go on for a diagnosis, huh?
Also on TSA: I can relate, a little. I remember one girlfriend, to whom I was deeply attracted, and found the same kind of electricity with both her sister and mother. Of course, I never went there! I think this is way more common than people like to admit.
Uh … CPAS, you’ve got an ineffectual therapist who’s not getting the message across to her. Why? Because your bitch of a partner is pretending to be DEAF, so that she doesn’t have to alter her behaviour.
Get out NOW before you get even more damaged.
@3, @8, and others above — yes, it’s a little shitty to speculate about CPAS’s looks when he’s already in a bad situation. But I think there’s something you’re missing (and which I think was part of Dan’s intended, albeit not so successfully worded, meaning): that this is the calculcation that CPAS’ abusive partner is making, consciously or unconsciously.
I don’t think Dan is endorsing the economy-of-looks paradigm (‘if there’s a physical attractiveness differential between partners, the more physically attractive has extra bargaining power’). I think he is exposing the kind of calculations that go on in CPAS’ abusive partner’s mind, so as to help him do what probably is the most difficult step, namely, to fall out of love with her.
Now, of course it’s possible that CPAS himself is terribly attractive (someone upstream wrote about such a situation, in which a handsome guy is abused by a less attractive woman) and that the causes are in some other source of insecurity rather than his looks. Still, insecurity there must be, to explain why he doesn’t get rid of such an obviously abusive partner. Somewhere, somehow, CPAS is doing the math wrong (‘I’ll never have such a wonderful/beautiful/smart/independent etc. woman in my life, because I don’t deserve to, and if I got this one it was sheer luck, so I should stick to her’). And CPAS’ partner is making the complementary kind of calculation (‘I’m with inferior here. Why on earth am I doing that to myself? Let me punish him for revenge!’), which allows her to keep her insecurities under control (‘I’m still pretty, because I can abuse this guy and still he won’t go away! Yay!’).
Unfortunately such calculations, consciously or unconsciously, still often go on in relationships. Again, I don’t think Dan is endorsing it as much as exposing it (in this specific case).
FDNY provides limited information about her situation. Were they in a closed or open relationship before she moved away? How far away did she move? How much regular physical contact does she have with the BF? Is he taking the trouble to visit her and vice versa? Is she still in grad school? What are the career opportunities in her field where her BF lives? What is the BF status? Is he is in college or grad school? Does he have a job or started a career? How mobile are his skill sets? Could/would he be willing to relocate to be with her? Will either of them want to stop screwing around once they get back together, if they do? The list of variables goes on.
Long distance relationships are difficult to maintain even where there is exclusivity. The longer the separation lasts the harder it becomes, mainly because you are no longer part of the other person’s life. You have less in common when you no longer have shared experiences. People can’t control their emotions and proximity breeds intimacy. To assume that neither party will form emotional attachments during the separation is naïve, particularly once sex is added to the mix.
The boyfriend did not agree to an open or monogamish relationship, only (complete?) freedom to screw around while they were apart. FDNY does not say what, if any, boundaries or ground rules were established. While they had a relationship before, they will have to reintegrate (reconnect) each other into lives that have diverged. Without additional information, the best FDNY can expect, if and when she returns, is (at least initially) some form of friends with benefits arrangement. Traits and behaviors that were accepted or ignored while they were together may be annoying or worse after she returns.
CPAS –
I’ve been there – or in a *very* similar place – where my partner would yell and get upset, but at the slightest sign of animation (in conversation) from me – be that a raised voice, speaking more quickly, etc. – she would accuse me of getting “aggro” (as in aggravated), etc. Attempts to remain calm were then met with “Stop patronizing me!”
There wasn’t a looks differential between us, and things were say, 80% good in the relationship. Good enough to try to work on it for a couple of years.
The thing is: it never got better. It actually got worse, including leading to her physically assaulting me (which crossed the line, and I promptly DTMFA).
All I can say is: you’ve tried to work on this, you’ve tried to affect change, but it appears clear that there is no motivation for her to change her behavior – if she hasn’t done it yet, it’s probably not going to happen. So DTMFA is probably the right advice.
After that happens, there are liable to be lots of promises of change, but tread carefully, because if she didn’t change before, and change is being foisted on her (she’s not changing because she wants to, but because she has to), lasting change probably isn’t likely.
Trust me when I say that there are other awesome, intelligent, articulate, and beautiful women out there. And if you don’t find them, they may find you. Just keep being yourself and have fun – those two things will make you the most attractive guy in the room.
@50: Nice!
I once worked with a political reporter who would never tell what a politician’s political affiliation was, presumably to undo decades of partisan rancor, which is a noble motivation, at least superficially.
I suggested that perhaps she shouldn’t name the politicians, either, lest she trigger pre-conceptions. For that matter, maybe leave out what they said and did, too, just to be safe.
Or maybe replace gender-specific possessive pronouns with one, non-specific one, and in doing so remove the false dichotomy of gender and sex from the lives of all who read it.
CPAS –
I’ve been there – or in a *very* similar place – where my partner would yell and get upset, but at the slightest sign of animation (in conversation) from me – be that a raised voice, speaking more quickly, etc. – she would accuse me of getting “aggro” (as in aggravated), etc. Attempts to remain calm were then met with “Stop patronizing me!”
There wasn’t a looks differential between us, and things were say, 80% good in the relationship. Good enough to try to work on it for a couple of years.
The thing is: it never got better. It actually got worse, including leading to her physically assaulting me (which crossed the line, and I promptly DTMFA).
All I can say is: you’ve tried to work on this, you’ve tried to affect change, but it appears clear that there is no motivation for her to change her behavior – if she hasn’t done it yet, it’s probably not going to happen. So DTMFA is probably the right advice.
After that happens, there are liable to be lots of promises of change, but tread carefully, because if she didn’t change before, and change is being foisted on her (she’s not changing because she wants to, but because she has to), lasting change probably isn’t likely.
Trust me when I say that there are other awesome, intelligent, articulate, and beautiful women out there. And if you don’t find them, they may find you. Just keep being yourself and have fun – those two things will make you the most attractive guy in the room.
@58 Plenty of people in monogamous relationships have no problems with being friends with or simply being in the same social circles as previous lovers. Like everything else, just because some people make a mess of something does not mean that other people cant do it right.
To say that “given the right set of circumstances” people might get back with the ex, is no argument at all. Given the right set of circumstances people cheat with friends they have know a long time and never before slept with or with total strangers. Following that kind of reasoning, everybody should lock themselves and their significant others in a box and never come out again.
@51 (biggie): you’ve just summarized my life experience (down to also having had to escape a ‘creepy’ phase). Yes, it is possible for average-looking people of both sexes actually to have ‘hot-looking’ partners (if that’s what they’re looking for), by simply allowing personalities to meet. Of course, we shouldn’t want to ignore someone whose personality is quite compatible on looks alone… but I suppose you weren’t implying that.
@60: I was once witness to a situation not unlike TSA’s (except that I was friends with the ‘half-brother’ boy, so I saw it mostly from his perspective, and his half sister didn’t get pregnant), and I was once (while I was travelling abroad) in a situation not like @39 above, with a host family I called ‘father’ and ‘mother’. Yes, I do think such things happen a hell of a lot more often than most people think, and we just cover things up in shame.
@8, @30, and @55:
I think @62 put it very succinctly.
There was a time for me where, despite knowing that I could find “someone” else, I thought the abusive person I was with was the person for me.
A lot of this had to do with my dating history: I am fairly particular and hadn’t been a good fit with the people I had dated before. So when my new partner came along and things were 80% good, that was a lot better than previous relationships, and I thought we could “get there from here.” Especially because I know that all relationships take work and compromise. Well, I was wrong…we couldn’t get there from here.
The lesson I took away was: Don’t settle. Yes, things take work, but things should also feel natural. And if you’re getting beat up (verbally, physically, emotionally) and are unable to communicate effectively with your partner, something’s wrong.
@58 – “I assume both of you were honest about the nature of your relationships with your exes before getting married.” Yes, we both knew the sexual history with our partner’s exes before we got married. And so did most of our friends, since we were all from the same circle of college friends.
“It is one thing to know in advance what you are getting into…” Right – TSA should tell her fiance now, before they get married, so he understands that he is joining a family with this awkward (but not immoral) history.
@67 – exactly!
CPAS and other men being abused, be aware that if your girlfriend gets hurt in one of these “physical encounters” she could call the police and you could get arrested and charged. The police are much more likely to believe that a man hurt a woman than the other way around. Happened to my friend’s son, girlfriend tried to hurt him, missed and fell. She called the police, etc, etc. He was very, very lucky to not go to jail.
CPAS, learn from my experience: I was you many years ago, and did not dump the woman in the beginning, when I knew I needed to. Four and a half years of terrible, heart-breaking and destructive fighting ensued. Finally I found the courage, in spite of the love, to dumped her. Four years I cannot get back. Four years that could have been spent with the right woman whom I eventually met and married.
Hey CPAS,
I bet your girl never does that stuff when other people are around and is probably trying to isolate you from people in your life that you care about.
I don’t know what your living arrangements are, but the next time this thing happens, which probably won’t be long, just say to her the following: “I think it’s time you leave”.
Barring that, you can say, “I think it’s time I leave”.
After that, fucking don’t engage her in any conversation – other than to tell her you’ll drop off whatever she claims to have forgotten to take with her.
“I think it’s time you leave” – say it with me.
I did not say this years ago when I should have and I am telling you now my friend: get as far away from this person as possible, as soon as possible and stay that way.
Well, let me pile on again CPAS – do what @73 is telling you to do, but when you do, be prepared for a blowup – and take the advice of @71. Ideally be someplace with witnesses. I had to flee on foot, and it was not easy.
Re TSA,
That is one bizarre situation, but I think Lieberman’s advice is sound. If a prospective mate admitted a story like that to me I think I’d be stunned, but it wouldn’t be a deal breaker. Just another version of “Well you’re not screwing him NOW are you?!” I’d accept it and move on.
CPAS: I was in a similar situation. The relationship ended in violence. I called the police. They arrested us both. The only thing that saved me was that I was bleeding, with torn clothing, obviously beaten on and she wasn’t. So, uh, get the fuck out. Now.
I hate bullies. As a gay man, I’ve always been leery of them. I thank God for your It Gets Better video message. Hopefully it will inspire others to look farther down the road past the bullies and onto a better future. For that you deserve a world of respect, my only question is how or why you chose to become a bully too. I read your comments about Marcus B., and it seems so stomach-churning that I couldn’t believe you had said those things. You fell pretty hard down on my respect-o-meter today.
I thought people would be discussing the nonmonogamy letter since those are often very popular, but instead there is a lot of controversy over CPAS’s letter which I felt was pretty mundane. Interesting.
@58: It’s plenty possible for lovers to become friends. I just spent an evening with a group that included my first lover, his current girlfriend, another former lover of mine, and his wife and kid. We had a great time. And over the course of that vacation I spent an evening at the home of each of those lovers with no problems or boundary-crossing at all. I’m still close friends with a number of my exes — I typically spend Thanksgiving with one of them and her family. It’s not that unusual.
@60: I’ve made out with both a parent and their child, completely separately, without either knowing about the other. Nothing serious with either, and to this day they don’t know and are never finding out.
I doubt TSA has read down here – or read comments at all – but in case she or anyone else in a comparable situation could use an opinion:
I’ve seen some documentaries on GSA and the Westermark effect online before, and if a partner told me about something like that in his past I wouldn’t think badly of him at all. Dan said it best: there but for the grace of god go I.
@TSA: I agree with Debra Leiberman, too. I hope it all works out for you. And no, I don’t think you’re sick; just confused as a teenager. If you’re engaged, I also agree with others in that you really do need to tell your fiance about the situation with your step-brother, however in your past. At least you’d have a clean slate and could move on.
@57 AliC99: I second that! OMG!!!! CPAS sounds like he’s dating my older sister, a direct cross between Queen Victoria and Mother Teresa (first she gives you her middle finger for NOT just absolutely worshipping her and giving her everything you have, then cries that she needs to lie down from exhaustion)! CPAS—leave the witch already!!
Thanks again for another great column, Dan!
I was in a relationship where I was not very nice, kinda like CPAS’ relationship. I never hit him, but I think he thought I might in the future. Thing is, he was an unbelievably attractive man. An idiot, but very attractive. He would drive me insane with his narcissism and ego. He had such low self-esteem that he would overcompensate to the point that I was repulsed.
Yes, I was an asshole, but so was he, in his own way. I take responsibility for my actions, especially after he dumped my ass, which took me a long time to recover from. I thought that I was doomed to be this way with all my relationships: an asshole.
Really, we were a horrible match. I do not act like that in my current relationship, because we are better suited for each other. My current man is not afraid to accept his faults, does not try to hide them. I can respect that, and therefore, respect him. I found with a lot of soul-searching that I should never be with someone with low self-esteem because I would probably make it worse, while pissing me off in the meantime. You live, and you learn.
14 and 27 and whoever else is blaming Dan for pointing out the extreme likelihood of ‘look differential.’ The guys letter made it very clear his ‘hot’ girlfriend was a fuck dream cum true for him which was the source of her power over him. Dan’s answer was dead straight on. Men will put up with batshit crazy bitches if they think that is the best they will ever get…
As for Sis, your family drama is very sad and unfortunate. If future hubbies gross-outness is in any way religious based you might point out this little passage:
Genesis Chapter 20 is a hell of an interesting read:
Abraham (yeah the patriarch of both the muslim and jewish faith) said of Sarah his wife, “She is my sister.” Did he not himself say to me, ‘She is my sister’? And she herself said, ‘He is my brother.’
12 (Abraham said): She is indeed my sister, the daughter of my father though not the daughter of my mother, and she became my wife.
This is really no big deal and hardly unexpected. Given all the ‘broken’ and hybrid families out there consider this a public service- the people need to know. Thanks Dan!
Interesting answer on Google also. Amazing how much has changed in such a short period of time.
I learned so much from this column. As a straight man with only a male sibling, I always wondered how brothers weren’t attracted to or at least curious about their sisters.
@58 and the trauma of rape,
I used rape as an example of a traumatic incident that placed me in the position of TSA’s fiancee. I wanted to express the similarities with the timing and the extremely negative self image burden carried by the women. And I wanted to convey my acceptance and support to ease that burden for my girlfriend. Given all the circumstances, especially my being a frequently stoned idiot, it still seems a miracle that I helped her to find a vibrant sexuality.
This is a case of needing an editor to look over what is written and ask just what I meant. I think her fiancee will accept TSA’s history and help her make the best of the situation. I think she should learn to trust him, he does want to marry her.
Peace
TSA, you have nothing to be ashamed of, and if your fiance is a decent guy, he will be able to handle your story and not think any worse of you for it. Definitely tell him now, so both of you have a chance to deal with it before getting into all that wedding-planning and wedding stress.
For what it’s worth, I know at least a few people who have had sex, or sexual encounters, with their first cousins. Depending on how the genes get tossed around, they could be just as closely genetically related as half-siblings. I don’t think it’s abnormal for people to have that kind of attraction, with or without a Westermarck effect to help explain it. You have nothing to apologize for here. It happens. I’m glad you don’t feel like you’re forced to be a victim in this situation. When other people (e.g. mom, relatives, whoever) react as if you are one, that can be much harder on you than whatever prompted their reaction in the first place. However, keep in mind that your mom and others might be traumatized by this discovery, and wouldn’t react in a completely rational or understanding manner. Maybe there’s a limit to how much they can be blamed for that, you know? When getting married, it might be a good time to let go of some of that, if you can.
CPaS, the list of qualities you really want in a woman–“smart, articulate, independent, and friggin’ beautiful”–is missing most of the good stuff that’s important for a relationship. If you dump this one (which I agree with Dan, you should!) and move on, it will do no good if you’re looking for the same list. How about substituting things like, “kind, generous, caring, good to me, communicates well, can laugh at own mistakes, doesn’t take offense easily”, and other qualities in that vein?
also a bit perplexed on the advice to CPAS and the whole looks thing…but either way, it aint worth it to hang with a psycho bitch no matter how hot, articulate and smart she is. totally DTMFbiotchA
@31
Oh do please continue with your closing argument. I so desperately want to hear more about that. Not as a troll; I promise I am only curious to read more of your thoughts on all you mentioned there.
Dump the MF woman, for sure! But I think Dan is off-base saying this is only about looks. I have seen relationships where the woman is fat and ugly and the guy looks like he could do much better, and yet still gets abused. Who knows why these guys love the bitches, but they see or need something we don’t.
But if he is reading and he thinks that she is using her looks to get leverage over him, this guy should not just DTMFA, he should dump her and date fat ugly nice girls for a while (just take them out, don’t break their hearts). That’ll teach her.
Re Sister act, simple stuff print out what Dan wrote and hand it over with a note on the bottom with the words “Let’s Talk this is me” if he goes berserk then time to dump him… shit happens.
@31 is full of BS, Miss 90. “offspring from closely related incestuous relationships is likely to result in deleterious recessives showing up from inbreeding. (It doesn’t much matter in, say, fish.)” First, you need to have deleterious recessive genes before you need to worry about incest causing genetic problems, and even then, you odds are only 1 in 4 for a brother and sister with the bad gene to both pass it on to their child, and 1 in 8 for half siblings, one in 16 for cousins. The main problem with inbred folks is if the family has a distinctive look or other physical features, the resulting child will probably have those features in a more exaggerated form (e.g. the Habsburg chin. But the Habsburgs were inbreeding the royal houses of Spain France and Austria for many generations before they produced an idiot. And it only takes one generation of outbreeding to undo all the inbreeding that could possibly be done in 100 generations)
I’m amused by FDNY’s through-the-looking-glass take on long distance relationships. In most cases, the agreement the two participants make goes something like, “I promise not to fuck anybody else” (with the unspoken part being “but if I meet somebody wonderful enough, I will break up with you honorably.”) In her case, it’s more like “I promise not to break up with you, but if I meet anybody wonderful, I promise only to fuck them honorably.”
The sad part is that both of those promises are equally unenforceable. Bottom line is, _any_ relationship is subject to replacement under the right conditions. Long-distance relationships are particularly vulnerable to this, and someone who goes into one expecting otherwise is setting himself up for a painful surprise.
That said, if the two of you do make it all the way through grad school, get back together, and still find each other to be partner material, more power to you.
Oh, and what Dan said: in a nutshell, don’t go breaking any hearts of unsuspecting folks who might consider themselves potential (replacement) mates.
To CACS: Stop using mealy-mouthed language like “These fights sometimes end in physical confrontations that she instigates.” If the reality is that “she hits you,” then say that, without qualification. Otherwise it sounds like some share of the violence belongs at your doorstep. This will eventually land you in jail while she skates.
Meanwhile, don’t wait for the next incident. Take her somewhere public, dump her ass there (don’t try to do this at home), and get the hell away from her.
@85: Yeah, it’s weird. There’s this intense physical feeling of revulsion and nausea that comes up whenever I even think about anything sexual with someone I grew up with.
I agree with everyone who thinks looks have nothing to do with CPAS’s situation. I don’t even think his girlfriend is that attractive; it’s just in CPAS’s head. I’ve been in similar situations and I look good. It’s just insecurity and low self esteem. CPAS needs to DTMFA and find a good individual therapist.
I don’t know why TSA is panicking. It’s just not a big deal. No one decent would care. She reminds me of those people who are terrified of their incredibly weird and kinky fantasies of spanking someone…
@94: FDNY’s take makes a lot more sense to me… it’s hard not to fuck other people, easy to stay with someone you care about.
And yes, a promise to stay with someone is enforceable. You don’t know when someone else has sex but you know when they leave you. So you can make it difficult for someone to leave: say, set up an agreement that whoever leaves the other person loses money, or gets beat up. Or social sanctions.
That’s actually one of the purposes of marriage: by making it difficult for either person to end the relationship, you encourage people to stay with it instead of leaving.
TSA:
Your past doesn’t negate everything that made your fiance fall in love with you and decide to marry you. If he truly loves you, your story won’t change his feelings. If it does, better to break things off now. If you stay together, you’ll both go through fucked up times and make mistakes after you get married too, and hopefully you’ll stand by each other. When you love someone, you take them as they are, flaws and all.
“She is exactly what I’ve always wanted: smart, articulate, independent, and friggin’ beautiful.”
Looks like you get to add a new item to the list of things you now know you want in a partner: the ability to care for your feelings as well as her own.
I have to disagree with everyone including Dan on CPAS. What it sounds like is that CPAS is incapabale of rising to the occasion of exerting influence to counter manipulate his GF.
The first tragedy of dumping his GF would be the lost opportunity of learning to deal with the situation already, and secondly he would lose the opportunity of learning how to manipulate other girls like her.
His GF probably simply needs someone who can rise to the challenge of counter infuluencing her by using the same tactics against her.
Think of it as an exercise in intellect. You have to dominate her by messing with her values and worldview. Good luck.
@100 – your second paragraph is more or less exactly what my therapist did with me when I was involved with someone I believe was a BPD sufferer. Without the bit about ‘counter manipulating’
As to why CPAS would put up with her, there doesn’t have to be a looks disparity. He could just have low self-esteem and/or a distorted view of his own desirability. All that is necessary for someone to stay with an abuser is for the abused to believe they can’t do any better or that they deserve the treatment.
@101
I forgot to mention that manipulation should be used strategically, and not by default.
Thats what distinguishes a GOOD leader from a psycopath.