…can I say that I read this in today’s NYT…
In “Drop Dead Diva,” on Lifetime, a heavenly mix-up leaves Deb, a vapid but good-hearted size zero model, trapped in the overweight body of Jane, an intelligent, hard-working lawyer played by Brooke Elliott. (Think “Heaven Can Wait” meets “Ally McBeal” and “Legally Blonde.”) The ensuing story line centers on Deb’s struggle to accept her new plus-size life.
…and immediately scrolled back up to take a second look at the picture. Um… Brooke Elliot, at least in the picture in today’s NYT, doesn’t strike me as all that plus-sized.
The applicable term is Hollywood Homely.
fyi, Margaret Cho is pretty damn skinny. Saw her two nights ago about 20 feet away on stage, and she’s a stick. So shut up already.
51, I was going going to post that in response to #2.. “I wanted Mary Ann on Gilligan’s Island ugly, not Cornelius on Planet of the Apes ugly. I wanted ‘TV ugly’, not ugly ugly.”
Anyway, it looks like they are doing some slimming illusions with her makeup and wardrobe. At least the show portrays her as having unhealthy diet and exercise habits.
Also American woman’s clothing sizes are very fluid. What used to be a size four, is now often called a zero. American men’s sizes, S M L XL XXL, etc have been similarly manipulated. I usually ware an XL, for the length, but the shirts are like a tents. When I was in New Zealand earlier this year, I bought an XL rugby shirt, and it not only fit lengthwise, but was actually cut to fit a normal weight guy. Manufacturers have found that Americans will buy clothing if it makes them feel they are thinner. It’s not really a good trend.
52, Cho has lost a lot of weight. She’s learned the power of portion control.
http://www.starling-fitness.com/wp-conte…
http://www.starling-fitness.com/wp-conte…
@54: Okay, so you know about weight loss. Could you do something about your balding head? Baldies annoy me more than fatties.
Sorry Dan, can you clarify, please?
Does being an “anti-fat bigot” mean you are anti-fat people? Or are you bigoted (sp?) against anti-fat people?
55, I’ve got a thick full head of hair, but if it makes you feel better about your fat self, you can pretend that I don’t.
Rob, you’re delusional. We all have to wear sunglasses in Seattle thanks to that glare coming off your head in Baltimore. Tell you what: all the fatties here will go on Weight Watchers for three months if you go on Rogaine for the same time. Deal?
Rob, why do you assume #55 is fat? Also, it’s really telling that you’re using the word fat as an insult. Says way more about you than it does the people you’re describing with it.
58, I guess its easier for you to pretend than to diet and exercise?
59, I’m not using it as an insult. The person would rather make up stuff than to deal with his or her bad diet and exercise habits.
But Rob, you’re automatically assuming that they’re a fat person and trying to shame them for it, with no evidence to support your theory. Which, yes, does mean that you’re using the word fat as an insult.
So why are you assuming that? I’ve scrolled through the comments and can’t see anywhere where that commenter mentioned being fat.
62, Because the person had quite a strong reaction, and took such offense at me posting Margaret Cho’s diet & weight loss success story.
Rob, maybe that person was taking exception to your tone. When you post in these threads you tend to have a very holier-than-thou tone to your words.
Also, I’m not so sure one could chalk Margaret Cho’s weight loss up to simple “portion control” — in the interview segment you quoted it sounds more like she’s describing intuitive eating.
Yup — I clicked on your links about Margaret Cho, Rob, and what she is talking about is intuitive eating, not a “diet”. Not “portion control”. Also, that link is pretty horrifying — the blog author is talking about how “thin and perfect” Cho is now. Equating thinness with perfection? That’s pretty disordered thinking.
66, She specifically talks about portion control. She orders a 12 ounce prime rib, and leaves 9 ounces on the plate. She drinks only the top inch of her latte. That is the very definition of portion control. She chooses to control the portion that she consumes.
64, You project the holier than thou into it. I’m merely stating facts about diet, exercise, and weight control. You take offense at that for some reason.
Rob, you seem to really want to make her words fit your definition of portion control. Did you actually read Margaret Cho’s blog entry, or just the bits that were cherry-picked by the author of the blog you linked to?
http://www.margaretcho.com/content/2003/…
Rob, I’m far from the only person here who’s called you out for being holier-than-thou. I remember Kim in Portland doing it in a different comment thread a while back — are you going to try to tell me that she’s a secret fatty who’s taking offense to your facts?
69, She talks about doing all these bad diet plans that in the end caused her to over eat, and she finally settles for portion control. For what ever reason, she felt obligated to eat everything put on a plate in front of her. She has since retrained herself to eat what she wants, but to limit how much she eats. It portion control, plain and simple.
Keep calling it portion control if you want, Rob. I actually read Margaret’s entire entry on HER blog, not the creepy one you linked to, and when I read what Margaret has to say about her own decisions it’s really clear that she’s talking about intuitive eating.
It’s really sad that you can’t open your mind just the tiniest bit here. I feel for you.
70, Maybe she is overweight, I don’t know. Again, all I have ever done is state facts about diet, exercise and weight control. I’m sorry they bother you so much.
50 – well, if it makes you feel better, that’s not true anymore. Being a 32 waist used to mean the same thing at Gap, Banana Republic, etc. Not anymore. At those stores, sometimes I’m a 33, sometimes a 36 (when the hell did BR decide they should sell skinny jeans?), and don’t even get me started on places like H&M, where my big fat American size-33 waist maaaaaybe fits into their size 38’s. It’s not consistent at all anymore.
The “facts” you trot out don’t bother me at all, Rob, but I guess you need to think they do. Again, that’s pretty sad, and I feel sorry for you.
72, I’m not going to get into an “Is!, “Is not!” round and round with you. We’re obviously not going to agree.
75, Okay. You’re not at all upset with me for stating facts about diet, exercise, and weight control. If you say so.
Well, Rob, I find it really telling that when provided with a link to Margaret Cho’s own blog entry about her eating habits, and asked if you have read the link, you won’t even answer. Nor would you answer when asked why you keep calling other commenters fat when they haven’t even mentioned anything about their own bodies.
I really do feel sorry for you. You’ve got a pretty obvious axe to grind with regard to the overweight — maybe you were a fat kid who got teased a little too much, maybe you had a fat lover that broke your heart. I don’t know. All I know is that this world is too full of hate, and I hope someday you can let go of the hate in your heart and learn to accept people for what they are and not what you want them to be.
I do say so, Rob. Thanks for taking me at my word.
78, I read the link, and stand by my previous statements. I also answered as to why I think the other poster is overweight. I have no hate for fat people. I simply have stated facts about diet, exercise, and weight control. I’m sorry you don’t like to hear them, but you don’t have to read my posts.
Wow! I didn’t expect to find myself mentioned, but that’s me in my avatar, so you all can decide for yourself. I’m happy and that’s what counts, and I hope you all are just as happy, too.
81, and the big difference between you and the anonymous poster in question, is you enter the conversation without personal attacks.
Hmm… you’d think that a fatter woman with the brain of a thinner woman would immediately start losing some weight. Have they written that into the storyline? Because I bet size-0 model has learned not to have that second doughnut, and the fat body she’s trapped in would immediately start to feel the benefits.
Also, we have to be careful when we use the old “Marilyn Monroe was a size 12” line. Women’s sizes have meant lots of different things over the years–and still do. For instance, I fit anywhere between a 0 to a 6 in stores, depending on the store. I’m also an avid sewer, and sewing sizes have remained similar to the way they were in the 50’s. I fit anywhere from a 6 to a 10 in sewing sizes.
Size numbers were bigger in the 50’s. Marilyn, given the sizing numbers of her time, must have fit anywhere between an 8 and a 16.
I definitely agree that Marilyn had some roundness to her, and was a little more robust than your standard model of today. Was she a size 12 of today? Certainly not.
MichelleZB, that’s actually addressed in a later episode from what I understand. (I don’t have cable so I don’t watch the show.) Dan’s least favorite blogger wrote about it at Jezebel:
http://jezebel.com/5365265/the-small-scr…
Ah, interesting article, Haunted Leg, thank you. It looks like they had to come up with a way to keep the fat girl fat, even with a thin person’s brain. So they came up with the idea that the fat girl’s “body craves Cheez Wiz.”
The blogger is right to call bullshit. Apparently we’re supposed to believe that being fat or thin is totally against our control, and the only reason thin people are thin is because they really *like* eating small portions of healthy food, whereas fat people *like* overeating junk.
Not exactly, MichelleZB — the fact is that fatness or thinness is MOSTLY not in our personal control. There’s only so much you can do to fight your body’s natural tendencies to lose or gain weight, whichever it is for you. I’m thinking of myself and a dear friend of mine — I’m built more like the star of Drop Dead Diva (except with a bigger rack), I eat healthily and get plenty of exercise and treat my body well, and the most I can lose is 15 pounds before I plateau, and then my body starts putting weight back on regardless of what I do. I’ve stayed in the same weight range for the past decade, always losing and regaining the same 15-20 pounds despite a whole lot of work. However, my dear friend, who is slender and willowy like an Asian teen — she abuses OTC drugs, smokes 2 packs a day, eats nothing but McDonald’s and Taco Bell (no, literally, nothing but those two places), and gets no exercise, and she can’t gain weight at all. The last time I saw her without a shirt on I could count her ribs.
So how come my friend is so thin and I’m still heavy? I mean, by your rationale I should be super-skinny because my brain behaves “like a thin girl’s”. And my friend should be clinically obese. But instead it’s the other way around. I do all the “right” things, she does all the “wrong” things.
Maybe it’s that your assumptions are incorrect?
I went from a pretty regular size 8 to a size 0 in six months when I was ill several years ago. I lost 25 pounds to drop those sizes (I dropped to about 105 pounds on a short but fairly sturdy frame). I did not look good at a size 0, and when my health improved, I went right back to my usual size 8. Looks-wise, I’d be happier at a 6, but I’m not really complaining all that much. Sure, some people think a size 8 is a cow, but this seems to be where my body is healthiest.
(Oh, and if I shop at Nordstrom, I wear a 4 – although their size 0’s fit pretty well when I really was a size 0. Size 2 and under don’t have as much vanity sizing, because then the naturally-thin women would be shopping in the children’s department or wearing tents. Women’s sizing is BERSERK.)
…and if I buy vintage clothes off eBay, I have to be careful to order a 10 or 12, because the sizes have DEFINITELY changed some.
One of the best compliments I’ve ever gotten as a short, but very curvy overweight woman: I said, “I’m like a 6 foot tall hottie squished by 8 inches.” My (preferred gender) friend said, “yeah, but then you wouldn’t be any fun, 6 foot tall women who look like that are vapid.”
Rob if Margaret Cho got her weight off intuitively, could you get your hair back the same way?
@88 – that is very true. I am 5’11 and pretty athletic, but been always paranoid that if i ever gained any significant amount of weight i would look like an ugly, huge mountain. Being curvy, i thought, could only work for shorter girls.
But when i saw Queen Latifah who is just an inch shorter then I and realised that sexy and pretty are not size-dependent. Even though, of course, being healthy is the most worthy goal.
If you are built to be naturally curvy, even if you starve yourself, the best we get as a result would be proverbial “skinny cow”
I guess it’s all in the eye of the beholder.
As for me, give me a size 8 or under. MMM MMM, hot!
If it helps you sleep at night, please go on pretending that trim, fit women catch the eye only because everyone’s been hoodwinked by some sort of sick societal brainwashing.
Ahhhh, the desensitization program is working (rubbing hands with glee)! Your fat-hating cred is in jeopardy.
“not all that plus-sized”?
I just bought a size 18 suit from Macy’s (just three sizes into the plus category). My BMI is right around 40, and that’s deep into obese territory.
@74: I totally agree. It makes me crazy. I thought I was losing my mind when I suddenly jumped two pants sizes. Then I went and visited my parents and found that I still fit into my clothes from college. The new fits don’t favor men with larger (fat or muscular) butts and (more muscular) thighs.
@86 I mean, by your rationale I should be super-skinny because my brain behaves “like a thin girl’s”.
No, no, I didn’t intend that. Obviously, people’s size is at least partially genetically determined. But of course, eating habits and exercise can take you up or down within your genetic range. Right?
Now, I wasn’t trying to say anything about you or whether you should be super-skinny or not. I don’t even know you, or your circumstances. What I do know, a little, are the circumstances of the characters on the show. We are led to believe that thin chick went on diets and exercised like a mofo, and that fat chick eats cheez whiz and ice cream and lies to her doctor about going to the gym. Obviously, fat chick could probably lose a few within her genetically predetermined weight range if she changed her habits. But even with the brain of someone used to depriving herself, she doesn’t. Plot hole. See what I mean?
MichelleZB, I’m sorry, I don’t see what you mean. It still sounds to me like you’re assuming the thin girl has all the right habits and the fat girl has all the wrong habits. That’s why I’m using myself and my skinny friend as an example of how wrong that thinking is. Good lord, in the Jezebel article that I linked to, there’s even a clip of the show that points out that Jane (the “fat chick”) has tried pretty much every diet out there.
Also, the whole thing about her lying to her doc about the gym? I assumed that was because the “thin girl” is the one in control now, and that she wasn’t going to the gym because she hadn’t had to do so when she lived in her own thin body. About ten seconds into the clip, Jane has to ask Margaret Cho’s character who her (Jane’s) doctor is. I thought that kind of made it clear that, uh, it’s not really Jane who’s talking. It’s Deb, the thin girl that now inhabits Jane’s body.
Does that make sense? Maybe you need to go back to that article and watch that clip, and keep in mind that Deb (the dead thin girl) is the one talking out of Jane’s mouth. It’s not Jane talking. When you keep that in mind, her conversation with the doctor makes a hell of a lot more sense. You’re hearing a thin girl’s experiences and assumptions coming out of a fat girl’s mouth.
@92: You shouldn’t be at a 40 BMI with a size 18 dress unless you’re, oh, 4’8. If you’re 5’7 or thereabouts, a size 18 would likely be a 30-33 BMI.
@96 – I’m just over five feet tall and just over 200 pounds. Depending on the cut and style, I wear a size 1X or 2X or 18/20. I don’t know my measurements off the top of my head, and I don’t wear my clothes tight. I have lots of muscle, though.
@96: Okay, 200 and “just over five feet tall” would likely put you in the 37 BMI range.
@14 – That’s nice. My husband would jump at the chance to bed Cho, precisely *because* she doesn’t keep her mouth shut. Thanks for making me grateful to be married to him and not someone like you.
@13 FTW