As University of Washington police pried a protesting student’s clasped hands apart and dragged them from their nine-hour-long sit-in in the Office of the Vice Provost, the surrounding pro-Palestinian student activists held onto each other tight, screaming “SPD, KKK, IDF, you’re all the same.”
After hours of sit-in, cops pry pro Palestine protesters out of the office of the vice provost in Gerberding Hall, UW Seattle https://t.co/RhoYj8L2bM
— Hannah Krieg (@hannahkrieg) December 8, 2023
By 9:30 pm Thursday, UWPD had “removed” 36 protesters one by one from their occupation in Gerberding Hall, which houses University President Ana Mari Cauce’s office. Even as the last protester emerged from the building, greeted by a heavy Seattle Police Department presence, the protester did not cower. She stood on the steps of Gerberding, wrapped in her keffiyeh, and yelled “Free, free Palestine… Within our lifetime!”
Student activists at the University of Washington are not afraid to stand up for Palestinian liberation—or if they are, they can’t afford to show it.
VIDEO: Footage of the final protester exiting the building. pic.twitter.com/O2AgfRCqSz
— The Daily of the University of Washington (@thedaily) December 8, 2023
Throughout the two-month escalation of Israel’s reign of terror on Palestine, pro-Palestine advocates have faced doxxing, harassment, stalking, blacklisting, and state condemnation. Last month, a white man shot three Palestinian college students in Vermont in an alleged hate crime that left one student paralyzed from the chest down.
But with support for the Palestinian cause growing in recent weeks, recent UW graduate and Students United for Palestinian Equality and Return (SUPER UW) Jonah Silverstein said advocates feel less and less afraid of Zionists’ usual tactics of suppression.
And so, on the steps of Gerberding Hall Thursday morning, a student wrapped in a keffiyeh told more than 100 student protesters that they needed to escalate. Israel’s bombardment has leveled more than half the homes in Gaza, displaced 1.8 million residents, and killed at least 17,000 Palestinians, which exceeds the carnage of the Nakba, or the “catastrophe,” in 1948. So far, marches and vigils, however moving, have not stopped Israel’s genocide, nor have they pressured UW to meet the student’s demands: Divest from Israel, cut ties with Boeing, and stop suppressing pro-Palestinian sentiment from students and faculty.
The speaker said, “[Our] power is useless if we only ever operate within the bounds of the university and the state allows us to operate.”
The organizers laid out the risks of their sit-in. With the stated intention to stay in Gerberding until the cops kicked them out, the organizers said participants could face arrest.
About 100 students joined SUPER UW and United Front for Palestinian Liberation in hunkering down in the Office of the Vice Provost. The protesters left a clear mark: hanging flags, sticking Post-its on the walls, even leaving notes in desks for a personal reminder that “while you’re working, bombs are dropping.”
Throughout the action, Cauce’s Chief of Staff Margaret Shepherd and UWPD Police Chief Craig Wilson tried various tactics to break up the anti-genocide action.
Protesters are met by @amcauce chief of staff who says she’ll take a message, but the president is not available. She says police will enforce fire code. The students, after a pause, resumed chanting and chief of staff went in her office pic.twitter.com/VE3Fxj4Z7R
— Hannah Krieg (@hannahkrieg) December 7, 2023
For her “good cop” part, Shepherd offered them a meeting with Cauce the following day if they left, calling it their “opportunity for an audience.” Organizers asked for a phone call that day. Later that afternoon, Shepherd said Cauce would call them if they left the building first. Not wanting to give up their post without any real concessions from the University, the students decided to stay put.
For his “bad cop” part, Wilson and another officer attempted to remove and threatened to confiscate flags. One organizer said, “We have plenty of flags, we’ll just keep putting them back up.” “And we’ll just keep taking them down,” Wilson responded.
A cop tries to take down their demands, organizers easily stop him, and put it back up. “UWPD, KKK, IDF, You’re all the same!” They chant pic.twitter.com/e6dmfkZG5T
— Hannah Krieg (@hannahkrieg) December 7, 2023
Most boldly, Wilson lifted a student while they sat in an office chair in an attempt to remove them. Students told The Stranger that Wilson has made a lot of enemies with student organizers, but they are not surprised. UWPD exists to crush student activism, one organizer said, noting the department originated in response to anti-war protesters during the Vietnam War.
FORCIBLE REMOVAL: UWPD Chief Craig Wilson just tried to remove this protesters from their chair. They stuck it out for about 7 minutes. They did stand up eventually… to celebrate when the cop left. pic.twitter.com/8TEvInNQTK
— Hannah Krieg (@hannahkrieg) December 7, 2023
While Wilson’s effort to remove the student failed, Shepard told the protestors that UWPD would “enforce fire code” and start citing participants for trespassing at 5:15 pm. Video from participants shows cops dragging protesters away from the action. Participants claim that the cops took their pictures one by one before escorting them out of the building. UW did not respond to my request for comment.
Advocating against US-backed genocide can have real consequences as Silverstein told The Stranger before the sit-in Thursday. But the harassment, fear of doxxing, and threat of police have less “impact” on advocates in recent weeks, he said.
Knowing they could be arrested for their action, participants told The Stranger, they “don’t care” if their whole face shows up on front page news. Organizers told The Stranger they still proudly put their affiliations with pro-Palestine groups on their job applications. One protester introduced himself to Chief Wilson by his full name, shook his hand, and immediately went back to yelling “Shame on you, shame on you,” inches from his face.
“They’re grasping at straws to try and minimize our movement, to doubt our integrity,” Silverstein said. “But we know that we’re strong when we’re together, and that we’re going to keep fighting no matter what gets thrown at us.”
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“So far
marches and
vigils, however moving,
have not stopped Israel’s genocide . . . “
“being on the
Wrong Side of History
constantly takes a lotta Courage.”
–attributed to
George Costanza
kids-these-days can
See thru the Lies
they’re told &
will Hold the
Guilty Acc-
ountable
one day
I pray
Israel
in the Name
of its People is
who’s giving Israel
the baddest of Names
BiBi’s
last-ditch
efforts to remain
Prisonfree just like
el trumpfster do NOT
Help Israel in any way
shape or form. the Hole
he’s digging it may be Impos-
sible to dig Israel — & gawd knows
Whom else — out of the grave he’s digging
the World will soon
Demand Cease Fire
or Whatever they
wanna call it or
maybe Nukes*
will be next.
who Knows?
it’s
Popcorn:
Thirty already.
*Wee ones!
they’re Containable!
Headline should be updated to “Activists promote anti semitism, terrorism and genocide on first day of Hanukkah”
Also most of them aren’t actual students, they’re just the usual red brigade morons who have nothing better to do now that Kshama has abandoned them.
Sadly @4 is correct
Good old undergraduate outrage.
These idiots have the collective brain power of a jar of vegemite.
If UW has any rules prohibiting hate speech, and those rules include “national origin” as a protected class, then calling for the dissolution of the state of Israel would surely qualify.
Who could have predicted that the speech restrictions you demanded might one day be turned against a cause you supported?
“A free Palestine will free us all”
I want to discuss this signage. What does that even mean? Who is “all”? Free from what? I can’t make sense of it.
The antisemites aren’t fooling anyone – these groups are calling for an end to the state of Israel (but remember, it has nothing to do with Jews – Hamas loves Jews)
Direct action for human rights by a diverse group that includes Jews, a fact some commenters here have tried to obscure.
Hannah claims that the UWPD “originated in response to anti-war protestors during the Vietnam War.” Her link, to the UWPD history page, clearly says UWPD’s first officer was on the job in 1902. But he was gearing up for 1970!
“UW Students Aren’t Afraid Of Zionists”
Umm, racist much? Damn Stranger.
Maybe bring back some journalists and an editor.
Sitting out your ass for 9 hours and holding a sign. Probably shouting some recycled anti-war chant from the Vietnam era. Wow. Such commitment to the cause.
If they really want a free Palestine how about going to Gaza to fight the Israelis?
There are a bunch of Americans in Ukraine fighting the Russians.
Confinues to be bizarre how leftists are contorting themselves to support a right wing theocracy because Nasser aligned himself with the Soviet Union in 1957.
@20:
and then
were Israel to
END ITS BLOCKADE
on its open-air Prison might
Palestinian Lives then improve exponentially?
oh
kristo
it’s just a
Silly Blockade!
silly
ME.
when most
of the World
calls it Genocide
or Ethnic Cleansing
& War Crimes can tS’s
readership be far behind?
there I go
Again!
nyt:
Arab Nations
Condemn U.S. for
Vetoing Cease-Fire Resolution
The U.S. vetoed the resolution as senior U.N. leaders warned that without a halt in the fighting it was nearly impossible to get sufficient aid into Gaza.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/12/09/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news
get aid to
Gazans?
but HAMAS!
speaking of
Adorable.
wanna re-elect
El trumpfster?
we’re on the
Right path.
@4: For all of their bravado about fearlessly facing repression, exactly zero students are named in this piece. The only protester named is apparently no longer a UW student. So, great profiles in courage, kids.
Likewise, the protesters’ demand of the UW to stop “…suppressing pro-Palestinian sentiment from students and faculty” wasn’t accompanied by any examples of, you know, the UW actually “suppressing pro-Palestinian sentiment from students and faculty. ”
Finally, we have the utterly unsupported claim from the one named demonstrator, who said “advocates feel less and less afraid of Zionists’ usual tactics of suppression.” Should we put these protesters (and the Stranger) on “Protocols watch”? I keep wondering when they’ll finally start actually quoting from that hoary Tsarist forgery.
@23 – have there actually been any examples of the UW suppressing pro-Palestinian OR pro-Israeli sentiments? Unlike some other campuses I have not heard any of that happening here.
And demanding the UW cut ties with Boeing is laughable. Boeing has ZERO to do with any decisions by Israel. You can make the argument that the US government has not done much to calm the region down (vetoing the cease-fire resolution was REALLY bad optics), but Boeing is not a decision-maker here.
I see a lot to dislike on both sides of this conflict. Maybe calling a time out is the best way to keep a whole lot of people who have done nothing from getting killed.
‘Maybe calling a time out is
the best way to keep a
whole lot of people
who have done no-
thing from get-
ting killed.’
–@24
brilliantly.
So, to recap, a hundred or so undergraduates staged a sit-in, called UW police insulting names, and were gently removed by said police. Truly a campus aflame with passion!
This may actually have made the Seattle City Council’s recent resolution look bold and effective.
@25
damn Shame
all them WMDs
going to Waste all
them chirrens NOT
Suffering all their Homes
not piles of Rubble still with
Families in them. a ceasefire’d put
a Stop to that but we’ve got Principles
to Uphold here.
& Whatabout
HAMAS!
join the
MORAL
WORLD
Israel – You
CAN DO IT too.
When the U.S. votes against cease fire and that vote is the only vote that counts, the UN is pointless. When ONE person in Congress can stop anything and everything from happening (like Tuberville blocking every single military appointment), Congress is pointless.
The United States has chosen to arm and fund; aid and abet; the genocide of the Palestinian people. President Biden is a war criminal as is every current member of Congress (with the exception of Rashid Tlaib who spoke out, demanding the recognition of Palestinians as human beings).
I won’t vote for any war criminals. I won’t vote for any Republicans. And I sure as shit won’t be told that if I don’t vote for Joe Biden that I am enabling the destruction of this country. This country is gone already. We are literally watching genocide in real time (there wasn’t social media during the Holocaust) so there is absolutely no excuse for the United States’ not to demand a cease fire. The United States is not doing so because it fully supports colonization and will arm and fund Israel until every single Palestinian is dead.
Whatever happens to this country going forward cannot be blamed on insane Republicans. The Democrats have chosen white supremacist terrorism, Zionism, and colonialism above everything else (AND THEY STILL EXPECT ALL NON-WHITE VOTERS IN THIS COUNTRY TO VOTE FOR THEM).
FUCK THEM.
I will not vote for anyone currently in power (or any Republican, ever). The cognitive dissonance happening in this country right now is incomprehensible to me.
And everyone commenting here about how people who support Palestine hate Jews are willfully ignoring the hundreds of thousands of Jews in this country nationwide who are also protesting and demanding a cease fire. Zionism is white supremacism. Zionism is colonialism. There are millions of Jews in the United States and worldwide who are loudly screaming NOT IN OUR NAME. Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism anymore than Anti-white supremacism (or anti-fascism) is anti-white people (or anti anti-racist white people at least). No matter how loudly you say it, no matter how many times you say it, anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism.
What the Zionists in Israel are doing is genocide and millions of Jews worldwide do not support it.
@29: The Democratic Party’s candidate for president will receive Oregon’s electoral votes, no matter what you personally decide to do. So no one should care enough to bother telling you anything else about how you vote.
@30: Most Israelis were either born in Israel, and/or are descended from persons born in Israel (or other parts of the Middle East). Exactly the same can be said about Americans in America. If Israel is a colonizer, then so is the United States in America. Are you arguing for most of the US population to move elsewhere?
@29 if you want to align yourself with Tlaib that’s all you need to say. We know exactly what she represents and none of it is good.
and if you
Align with BiBi
Nutnyahoo we Know
Whom you’d rather see Gone:
Israel
Assures
It’s Doing
Everything Pos-
sible To Minimize Civilians
TEL AVIV—
Addressing observers
about the toll of the nation’s
ongoing incursion into Gaza, Israeli
officials assured critics Friday that it was
doing everything possible to minimize civilians.
“To those expressing apprehension about this war, just know that our troops are taking every effort to mitigate civilian life,” said Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, explaining that he remained laser-focused on taking the necessary precautions to reduce civilians in Gaza or prevent them entirely.
“Let me be clear:
Our war is against Hamas.
We have explicitly instructed
our commanders that they should
take pains so there are as few innocent men,
women, and children in Gaza as humanly possible.”
Netanyahu then added that because of
‘the unfortunate realities of war‘
it was always sadly possible
that a few Gazans
might survive.
https://www.theonion.com/israel-assures-it-doing-everything-possible-to-minimize-1851085308
finally
a little
Truth* in
big Media
*more Truth in
One article @ the Onion
Than in ALL of FOX’s Entirety
“At least be
honest xina and
admit to antisemitism
if that’s what you’re saying.”
–@dewey
inexplicably
a quick Refresher:
“Anti-Zionism
is not anti-Semitism
anymore than Anti-white
supremacism (or anti-fascism) is
anti-white people (or anti anti-racist white
people at least). No matter how loudly you say it,
no matter how many times you say it, anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism.”
–@xina above
Brilliantly
as Per
Usual
I’m
anti-
Nutnyahoo
and NO that does
NOT make me a Jew-Hater
I’m just not
into Fascists.
america
you have
a comprehension
problem. a Big one
which is why
“Republicans”‘re
defunding Schools
and Overfunding
the Po-po. they
have your Car-
eers all Map-
ped out.
@33: I assume Rep. Tlaib does indeed care about Palestinians. Anyone who does should be the strongest denouncer of Hamas, not for anything to do with Israel, but because of Hamas’ thieving of international aid from Palestinians, Hamas’ infliction of misogynistic and anti-LGBTQ+ policies upon Palestinians, and Hamas’ nonconsensual use of Palestinians as human shields.
As a female elected official in our open and free pluralistic democracy, she especially should understand the threat Hamas poses to her own rights and privileges, and to the lives, rights and privileges of any Palestinian who is not in Hamas.
so
it’s Not
a War Crime
it’s not Genocide
it ain’t even Ethnic Cleansing
is what Gazans
are going thru
right fucking
Now fucking
terrorism?
shuttled
endlessly
pointlessly
around a Tiny
little strip of land
unable to escape the
Two THOUSAND Pound
“Bunker Buster” Bombs hospitals
Bombed no Food no Water no fuel
for generators one HALF of their Homes
Blasted to Smithereens: 17,000 DEAD Palestinians
IS this
Terrorism?
or it is just
a little war?
@40
that’ll be
a big Relief!
your
Welcome!
Apropos of nothing, Utah’s leading department store used to be Zion Cooperative Mercantile Institution (ZCMI). It was founded by Brigham Young, and is part of Macy’s now, so that whole Zion thing must have more to it than just what people are associating with Israel.
As for this whole awful mess, it just goes to show how religion ruins everything. My heart goes out to everyone who is not some dumb religious nutjob and who is just trying to live their life.
And as for the Angry Undergraduate crowd (like Our Dear Xina and most of The Stranger’s writers), go ahead and abstain from voting or vote for some political whore like RFK Jr, Jill Stein, or Cornel West. You seem to have some sort of fantasy of living life in the second act of “Cabaret”, so let’s see what that brings.
so IS it
Terrorism?
or even Less
than that?
more
of your
so-called
Standand War:
“it’s just what Nations
DO when belligerents run
The Show” Quite curious if
it qualifies for the Terrorism
def. I know fellow Schloggers’re
Sticklers for the King’s English [me
too!] in a vertically-stunted vernacular
but here we Are.
@39: To follow up on a point Sir Toby made in a previous thread: all of those children we blew apart with “blockbuster” 2,000 pound bombs, or burned alive with chemical incendiaries, some in their own beds — was it ok for us to kill all of those German children because their parents couldn’t overthrow a fascist totalitarian one-party state — one which had never attacked us? Was it just, right, good, moral of us to do that? Most Germans were never Nazis, most Gazans are not Hamas. What’s the difference between what we did then, and what we’re supporting now? Was what we did in Germany “war crimes,” or “genocide,” or “ethnic cleansing”? We had some outright atrocities, such as at Dresden, but mostly it was war, which is hell. If we’d been intent on killing civilians just for the sake of so doing, the death toll would’ve been even higher.
If we hadn’t taken out that regime by force, it might still be around. Would that have been morally better?
What separates Hamas from fascists? A “holy” text? Hamas is a reactionary right-wing organization which fetishizes violence and death, loots from the innocent, has high-living leaders feeding off the looting, hates gays, believes women should know their inferior place, uses rape as a weapon in warfare — and those are just some of the easier similarities. If we could in good conscience kill all of those innocent Germans to stop a fascist gang, why should the Israelis not now have the same agency?
It’s easy to make cheap moral judgements from far away, especially after you’ve granted yourself the indulgence of not having to answer any of the tough questions.
so Is
what Israel’s
doing to Gazans
[& to the West Bank]
IS that or is it Not terrorism?
your
constant
Demand for
linguistic Exacatitude
requires you to answer that
without
worming
your way
Out Of It.
the
KKK
practiced
Terrorism.
is what
BiBi’s doing
terrorism? or not.
To quote another – I’m create a new religion and I’m going to take over the most expensive apartments in Manhattan and do everything I need to do to make sure I get what all of my friends and family rightly own, so sayeth the lord >>> and if that doesn’t work out, say after over 60 years, then I’ll just turn all of those apartments into dust and no one will get anything, ever.
That’s what Israel is doing right now.
Anti-Zionism is not Anti-Semitism. Anti-Zionism is Palestinian Lives Matter.
This country may believe it will only exist under white supremacy, but it is so wrong. There is a reckoning coming and it’s coming with a relish.
It’s like men who kill someone who doesn’t like them back or leaves them “if I can’t have them, no one can!”
That the author is obviously in favor of this kind of drooling stupidity is another sad moment for “journalism”. The modern left continues to be a deep skidmark in the boxer briefs of society.
What possible good do these drooling idiots think they’re doing? Netanyahu isn’t going to care about vacuous wastes half the world away…nor will the UN…nor will anyone but the police that hopefully find charges to truly punish these clowns for messing with the college and the many lives involved.
They wanted attention, but if they’re like the vast majority of tools I’ve debated this mess with… it’s all about the optics games of themselves, just more social media narcissism. Nothing defines the modern left like APPEARING to know/care about a trending topic….
@46: So, what we did to German and Japanese children in 1945 — was it terrorism or not? Of course you won’t answer, and making you show you won’t answer, making you dodge that question again and again and again and again, repeatedly making you display your abject moral cowardice for all to see, is the only valid reason for anyone to ask it. Thanks for playing.
@47: You forgot the part of your analogy wherein the adherents to your new religion already own half of Manhattan, which they’d inherited for generations. Other than that, your analogy rocks. (Too bad that little fact destroys the entire point your analogy existed to make, hm?)
@49: “Nothing defines the modern left like APPEARING to know/care about a trending topic….”
Bingo! There’s really nothing else to say about the Stranger and its supportive commenters on this topic … or on any other political topic…
“The modern left continues to be a deep skidmark in the boxer briefs of society.”
So what, CAMartin dear, are the positions of the “modern right” on this matter? Who should we ask? Donald Trump? Lauren Boebert? Franklin Graham? Stephen Miller?
If the modern left is a skidmark, the modern right is a chronic loose stool.
@52: ‘So what, CAMartin dear, are the positions of the “modern right” on this matter?‘
Who cares? If they start passing meaningless resolutions in City Hall, and lazily staging sit-ins at out-of-the-way office buildings at UW, all the while calling such sitting-on-their-ass sessions “fighting*,” then maybe we’ll worry about them.
If we have to speculate, then we’ll say our right-wing friends who are only moderately racist enjoy watching a Western democracy bomb a bunch of (insert horribly hateful epithet for “Arabs” here). From this, it follows our right wing friends of the more-racist variety really enjoy watching a bunch of (insert horribly hateful epithet for “Jews” here) bomb a bunch of (insert horribly hateful epithet for “Arabs” here).
*Sawant, Silverstein, and our modern left seem to have a misuse-of-the-word-“fighting” fetish like our right-wingers have gun fetishes. Same idea, only costing less to indulge, and involving (quite regrettably) a much smaller chance of Darwinian self-elimination.
@52 — thankfully the modern left doesn’t control one of the two major political parties the way the modern right does. What’s bizarre is that the far left over and over again has done everything in their power to help the far right win elections, when the right would never do the same. Heightening the contradictions, I guess.
@54,
You don’t think far right wingers like Trump, Gaetz, MTG, and plenty of others too numerous to mention, have thrown a significant number of would-be GOP voters to third-party or Dem candidates? Because I can assure you they have.
@55 anyone who has been paying an iota of attention to what has been happening on college campuses and progressive cities like Seattle could easily have predicted this. Sawant hosted a few anti semitic events during her time in office but it just flew below the radar.
@56 — MTG and her ilk are terrible, which has resulted in Democrats winning elections because rightists are awful. MTG and other crazies are not arguing that you should not vote for Republicans like Donald Trump.
Leftists have explicitly argued against voting for Democrats, like when Kshama Sawant argued against voting for Hillary Clinton, which has resulted in Republicans winning elections. Leftists are directly saying you shouldn’t vote for Democrats.
See the difference?
@58: “Leftists have explicitly argued against voting for Democrats, like when Kshama Sawant argued against voting for Hillary Clinton, which has resulted in Republicans winning elections.”
And they’ve been doing it for decades, without remorse for the tremendous damage they’ve been doing. In Florida in 2000, if less than a thousand votes for Nader had gone to Gore instead, the latter would have won the election outright, and W’s father’s appointees on the Supreme Court would not have been able to appoint him president.
But somehow, it’s not fair to note any of this.
I do not in any way support Zionists as I do not in any way support White Supremacists in the United States. I stand with all of the Jews decrying Israel’s actions. I stand with all of the innocent Palestinian civilians. If you believe all Palestinians support Hamas (and their terrorism), you believe all white people in the United States support white supremacists (and their terrorism), and you believe all Jews support Zionists (and their terrorism).
Continuing to pretend that anti-Zioninsm = anti-Semitism is pure ignorance in the name of perpetuating the myth of white supremacy and refusal to acknowledge your approving of all violence being committed in the name of perpetuating that myth.
@61: “If you believe all Palestinians support Hamas (and their terrorism),”
Who here has written this? We’ve said Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields, which is why the death toll is so high in the conflict Hamas initiated by (among other acts) raping, mutilating, and murdering women in Israel. Hamas is the primary reason civilians in Gaza are dying, and we’ve merely recognized this fact.
@64: Because she does not believe Israel has a right to exist, and therefore Zionism is an imperialist land-grab. That’s what her incomplete analogy about Manhattan @47 told us. It’s based on the baldly contra-factual claim that Israel was founded mostly by persons not native to Palestine or the Middle East.
@62: And the Stranger has reported on Progressives chanting even worse demands:
‘The protesters made their demands clear in their rallying chants: … “There is only one solution, intifada revolution,” and, “We don’t want two states, we want 1948,” in reference to Palestine’s borders before the violent expulsion of three-quarters of Palestinians, an event known as the Nakba.’
(https://www.thestranger.com/news/2023/10/16/79212000/as-a-ground-invasion-looms-thousands-in-seattle-protest-for-a-free-palestine)
Commenters noted how this eliminationist hate rhetoric should not have been reported without condemnation, but the Stranger simply doesn’t care.
@63 Raindrop, as usual, is trying to win a war of morality using semantics. His reliance on words is all he has. Words have no meaning when there is no truth, facts, or reality behind them. He has stated clearly that anti-Zionism = anti-Semitism. Hamas exists SOLELY due to Zionism.
@58,
The ONLY reason those RWNJ fascits weren’t advocating against voting for the GOP nom in 2016 and 2020 is because the GOP nom was himself a RWNJ fascist shithead! Do you really think if John Kasich or some other relative moderate had won the nom they’d have not disparaged and advocated against him? Far right wing shit-brained idiots just ousted Kevin McCarthy, himself(!) a far-right, fascism endorsing fucking nut job, just not nutty enough for those in power. So no, I guess the answer to your question is I don’t see the difference. Can you maybe do a better job of explaining it?