- Kelly O
- 28 years old, female, 5’9″, 263 lbs.
This is my body (over there—see it?). I have lived in this body my whole life. I have wanted to change this body my whole life. I have never wanted anything as much as I have wanted a new body. I am aware every day that other people find my body disgusting. I always thought that some day—when I finally stop failing—I will become smaller, and when I become smaller literally everything will get better (I’ve heard It Gets Better)! My life can begin! I will get the clothes that I want, the job that I want, the love that I want. It will be great! Think how great it will be to buy some pants or whatever at J. Crew. Oh, man. Pants. Instead, my body stays the same.
There is not a fat person on earth who hasn’t lived this way. Clearly this is a TERRIBLE WAY TO EXIST. Also, strangely enough, it did not cause me to become thin. So I do not believe any of it anymore, because fuck it very much.
This is my body. It is MINE. I am not ashamed of it in any way. In fact, I love everything about it. Men find it attractive. Clothes look awesome on it. My brain rides around in it all day and comes up with funny jokes. Also, I don’t have to justify its awesomeness/attractiveness/healthiness/usefulness to anyone, because it is MINE. Not yours.
I’m not going to spend a bunch of time blogging about fat acceptance here (but please read this), because other writers have already done it much more eloquently, thoroughly, and radically than I ever could. But I do feel obligated to try to explain what this all means.
You asked me for links, Dan, so here are some links for you. There are plenty more, but if you want me to go through each one and explain to you how these words and implications hurt and shame people, you’re going to have to pay me overtime (in Doritos!!!!!). I get that you think you’re actually helping people and society by contributing to the fucking Alp of shame that crushes every fat person every day of their lives—the same shame that makes it a radical act for me to post a picture of my body and tell you how much it weighs. But you’re not helping. Shame doesn’t work. Diets don’t work. Shame is a tool of oppression, not change.
Fat people already are ashamed. It’s taken care of. No further manpower needed on the shame front, thx. I am not concerned with whether or not fat people can change their bodies through self-discipline and “choices.” Pretty much all of them have tried already. A couple of them have succeeded. Whatever. My question is, what if they try and try and try and still fail? What if they are still fat? What if they are fat forever? What do you do with them then? Do you really want millions of teenage girls to feel like they’re trapped in unsightly lard prisons that are ruining their lives, and on top of that it’s because of their own moral failure, and on top of that they are ruining America with the terribly expensive diabetes that they don’t even have yet? You know what’s shameful? A complete lack of empathy.
And if you really claim to still be confused—”Nu uh! I never said anything u guyz srsly!”—there can be no misunderstanding shit like this:
I am thoroughly annoyed at having my tame statements of fact—being heavy is a health risk; rolls of exposed flesh are unsightly—characterized as “hate speech.”
Ha!
1. “Rolls of exposed flesh are unsightly” is in no way a “tame statement of fact.” It is not a fact at all—it is an incredibly cruel, subjective opinion that reinforces destructive, paternalistic, oppressive beauty ideals. I am not unsightly. No one deserves to be told that they’re unsightly. But this is what’s behind this entire thing—it’s not about “health,” it’s about “eeeewwwww.” You think fat people are icky. Eeeewww, a fat person might touch you on a plane. With their fat! Eeeeewww! Coincidentally, that’s the same feeling that drives anti-gay bigots, no matter what excuses they drum up about “family values” and, yes, “health.” It’s all “eeeewwwww.” And sorry, I reject your eeeeeewwww.
2. You are not concerned about my health. Because if you were concerned about my health, you would also be concerned about my mental health, which has spent the past 28 years being slowly eroded by statements like the above. Also, you don’t know anything about my health. You do happen to be the boss of me, but you are not the doctor of me. You have no idea what I eat, how much I exercise, what my blood pressure is, or whether or not I’m going to get diabetes. Not that any of that matters, because it is entirely none of your business.
3. “But but but my insurance premiums!!!” Bullshit. You live in a society with other people. I don’t have kids, but I pay taxes that fund schools. The idea that we can somehow escape affecting each other is deeply conservative. Barbarous, even. Is that really what you’re going for? Good old-fashioned American individualism? Please.
4. But most importantly: I reject this entire framework. I don’t give a shit what causes anyone’s fatness. It’s irrelevant and it’s none of my business. I am not making excuses, because I have nothing to excuse. I reject the notion that thinness is the goal, that thin = better—that I am an unfinished thing and that my life can really start when I lose weight. That then I will be a real person and have finally succeeded as a woman. I am not going to waste another second of my life thinking about this. I don’t want to have another fucking conversation with another fucking woman about what she’s eating or not eating or regrets eating or pretends to not regret eating to mask the regret. OOPS I JUST YAWNED TO DEATH.
If you really want change to happen, if you really want to “help” fat people, you need to understand that shaming an already-shamed population is, well, shameful. Do you know what happened as soon as I rejected all this shit and fell in unconditional luuuuurve with my entire body? I started losing weight. Immediately. WELL LA DEE FUCKING DA.
Eds. note: Dan Savage’s response is over here.
“Finally, my brothers, beware of doing wrong to any hermit. How could a hermit forget? How could he repay? Like a deep well is a hermit. It is easy to throw in a stone; but if the stone sank to the bottom, tell me, who would get it out again? Beware of insulting the hermit. But if you have done so–well, then kill him too.”
I’d support your application for “The Biggest Loser.”
I don’t think that Dan is a coward for not allowing comments. I think he just doesn’t want to hear the same ‘ole, same ‘ole again. He’s heard it all before. And what could possibly be said there that hasn’t already been said here?
He gave the response he thinks Lindy deserves. I just wish he’d edited out the typos this time.
Something tells me that Lindy didn’t run this by him first. Something tells me that he was hit with this blindsided. I have no way of knowing this, except that I think that Dan would have shown a hell of a lot more respect to her if he’d had even a small inkling of what was coming.
Many here are complaining about Dan’s response, but what did he say that was wrong?
@1052… well technically no.. he called kate harding that a few years ago..but his response to lindy was to link and quote his response to kate..and then close the comments..there won’t be blows of course (..although a shoe tossing weave tearing springer styled throwdown is what would end this ‘conversation’ proper.. )..but i suspect it will be one long assed while before dan will be able to shake the image of his new persona as editor in chief of ‘the daily planet’
@1061 I suspect a lot of people wanted Dan to walk back any shaming or bullying-type commentary he may have made in the past in regards to fat people, and perhaps to say he won’t do such things anymore. Which, as Dan has become the de facto anti-bullying spokesman at present, is where they’re likely coming from.
@ Rob, like you, Dan missed the point by a country mile.
You know what’s sad? Even people that are thin or skinny feel pressured to be thinner or skinnier from their friends, work etc. I weigh 150 lbs and have been told I need to lose weight at work, have felt overweight in comparison to anorexic gay men who look at you sideways if they can’t see your kidneys.
1061, What shaming or bullying commentary has he made?
Oooh, what I wouldn’t give to be a fly on the wall in the Stranger offices this morning.
I read your response to Dan’s original statement and I felt you were projecting a bit. He was slippery retorting to the ridiculous slippery slope argument being made in the Iowa debate regarding health statistics and gays. You are the one who decided it was a personal jab at you because I guess you feel guilty about your muffin top or something.
You have way more control over your weight than anyone has over their sexuality. I say this as a straight man who is ~25 pounds heavier than I intend to be (I fluctuate in the winter time due to inactivity and heavy carb foods). You see who I blamed there? Myself. I don;t do shit because it;’s cold outside. I have the second helping of stuffing or pumpkin pie. I am the reason my jeans don’t fit. And so are you.
You like links I see, so savor this: http://www.theonion.com/articles/glandul…
Oh riz, that is just lovely. Thank you!
@ 1060, there was a lot of buildup. Read “Ban Fat Marriage,” then “RE: Ban Fat Marriage” (and pay particular attention to Dan’s comments there – THEY are what informed this whole shitstorm). If you still think Dan could possibly have been “blindsided” by this – well, maybe by the degree of the response, but he all but begged for a post like this.
MOST COMMENTED FOREVER.
really, i appreciate your rebuttal to Dan’s hateful comments Lindy.
as a feminist, i totally get that a woman’s body does not exist to be sexually attractive to men. i don’t wear make-up, i don’t shave my legs – because i don’t feel like wasting time on that stuff. if you don’t like how my body looks, don’t look at it. as a nurse, it is completely obvious to me that being overweight is unhealthy. frankly, it becomes exhausting to take care of fat people who demand double dinner trays. as a person who has always used food to deal with emotional stress, i know how hard it is to eat healthy & exercise. i empathize. but i also know that it makes me feel a million times better if i do it.
Dan’s response would be approved by Miss Manners. Polite, explanatory, disclaiming, and not allowing for his readers to slam someone who appears to be a colleague he respects. Ms. Manners would not approve of Ms West’s post, however.
I don’t think Dan is the enemy, Ms. West.
As for the rant, which curiously manages to mix self-empowerment with victimhood, blah. Maybe you ought to stop assuming every fat person’s experience and ability is identical to yours. Maybe you ought to learn to separate your friends from your enemies. And maybe you should treat other human beings as imperfect but wanting to be nice and do the right thing, instead of as cruel oppressors. Let me guess, women’s studies?
I think it is officially time for a Dan VS Lindy dance off!!
@1066 like I said, may have said. So much of this is interpreted differently by different people. As a heavy dude that’s been both thin and heavy in several cycles, calling me a fatass is water off my back, because I know that and I know exactly why I’m fat, and why I’m de-fatting right now. But by the same token, I’m sure there are gays and blacks and others out there that the most nasty of comments will be met with a cheerful “fuck you too” and it won’t even bother them for whatever reason–while others will be crushed. We’re all unique. Obviously, things that Dan has said or written have incensed Lindy, and if they’ve done that to her–they’ve done it to others as well.
also exercise is the best thing for your mental health.
Wow 1073, way to be a condescending douchebag.
Wow…1077…the price of a cheese pizza and a large soda at Panucci’s.
Just want to comment here, finally, after over a thousand responses.
The comments seem pretty much divided in terms of the details concerning obesity and the many issues involved with it. The bigger message, though, is one I can latch onto- which is that we love you Lindy. You bring laughter and joy to most of us who read your work because you are an intelligent, witty, incredibly eloquent individual. And as a writer technically we never even have to see what you look like physically- so I have to honestly say no one should give a damn what you look like.
HOWEVER- that is where my love ends. Your message of “I don’t give a fuck what you think” is both inspirational and a little delusional/dangerous. I completely agree with the people here pointing out that if you truly DIDN’T give a flying fuck you wouldn’t have so passionately written what you did. You care. And honestly it’s important that you care. That everyone cares. Fat, skinny, average- it doesn’t matter WHAT your weight is, generally speaking. It matters what your habits are. If you are 263lbs, but eat plenty of veggies, fruits, and keep the processed foods to a reasonable level, exercise regularly, and maintain an active, mentally stimulating existence then you are probably quite healthy and not, in fact, a drain on society.
But it is very, VERY rare for a person of your height and size to be doing all this and not seeing some form of change to their body mass. And when you honestly analyze your habits I’m sure there are a few little things you could be doing to improve your health (regardless of whether that will help your weight- though it most likely will). In any event my last comment on that would be as long as you are keeping yourself healthy enough to avoid Type II Diabetes, or any other fat-related medical issues then keep on truckin’. If not? Then your “fuck you I’m fine” isn’t exactly correct or a healthy mental state.
In concern with all this Dan Hate? Dear god. I mean seriously. Dear. God. I went back and read his works. I’ve read almost every single thing he’s written- and honestly? No, sorry, he does not hate fat people and his rhetoric is not toxic. All of these people hailing Dan as the Fat Antichrist and how much of a “fat Bully” he is really disturb me.
It feels a lot like Isaac Haye’s response to Southpark’s episode about Scientology. He spends nearly, what, 9 or 10 seasons on that show, participating in the complete lambasting of every pop culture institution, organized religion, philosophical ideology, social group and cause. But suddenly, after the show set its sights on Scientology he quits the show in a huff- spouting “How DARE you attack my religion! You never show this kind of disrespect to anything else and it is obvious your biased hatred for my religious institution!” Which left the makers of the show scratching their collective heads. Ripping apart religion is a corner-stone of Southpark and has been since their very first short (Santa Versus Jesus). But the minute they attack HIS religion it’s suddenly hate speech worthy of him severing ties? Pathetic.
Dan is a blunt motherfucker. He calls it like he sees it. His “vitriol” about fat people is no more or less than any other group out there. His anger over the the Professional Gay Community’s seeming need to blame the person who contracted HIV while staunchly defending the person who gave it to the individual being a good example. Sure he’s 100% for gay rights, but that doesn’t mean he’s unwilling to call the gay community out for their own bullshit.
And the same exact thing can be said about his opinion of fat people. He calls them out on the overall health detriments of such a body-type and generally the kind of lifestyle that (not always, but more often than not) propagates it. And MORE often than not he’s blaming our society and it’s institutionalized propagation of obesity with their subsidies and food lobbyists just as much as individual responsibility. It’s just in this case he’s using the exact same language and temperament in concern with something that affects YOU- and suddenly you find him repulsive for it. Repulsive and evil for doing the same thing with the subject of body fat that he does for every other subject he talks about.
Just because it’s suddenly closer to home does not mean he’s treating the subject with any more or less respect than he treats anything else. You are simply seeing it that way.
Finally I have to agree with post, what was it, 448? The commenter wrote: “All that said, I’m not so sure about this equivalence between being fat and being gay. Setting aside the marriage thing, I’ve never heard of someone being beaten or killed by a couple of thugs for being fat, or having their parents drill into them that they are a moral abomination for being overweight. I’m not trying to be insensitive; I’m genuinely curious.” And I agree completely with the point she is making. Sorry, Lindy- that is utter bullshit. Fat people and gay people aren’t even in the same stratosphere. Sure there is absolutely a problem in our country, especially in our schools, with people bullying others over their weight. But I rarely hear about a person getting beat up or physically harassed or receiving even close to the same kind of hatred that gay kids get. Do overweight kids deserve an It Gets Better message of their own? Absolutely. But you are dead wrong if you think Gay and Fat are in any way equivalent.
@1046 fatcarrot
Though I appreciate and respect your experience, I’m still doubting the idea that obesity comes from anything other than overeating. Yes, there’s such thing as thyroid issues and slow metabolism (which I have as a result of past anorectic behaviour), but they usually only lead to slight weight problems. If you’re eating the proper calorie amount for your height and weight, and have made sure there’s no underlying psychological issue or disease, then there’s no reason to be obese.
There are some psychological and physical diseases that lead to overeating, and these underlying factors need to be resolved for a person to live a full and active life.
I do know, intimately, what binge eating is all about, along with anorexia and bulimia. I’ve been there, done that. I KNOW what shame linked with food can do to a person. It’s awful. It took be awhile, but I finally realized that my food issues were related to past sexual abuse I’d experienced. Before I made that connection, the problem had complete control over me. I’m not saying everyone with an eating problem has experienced sexual abuse, but I do believe that every addictive behaviour has an underlying psychological origin. You can’t get rid of the addiction without honestly and courageously addressing the pain.
The problem I have with basic dieting and exercise programs is that they don’t address the problem or the core of the issue. If a person is eating (or not eating…in the case of anorexia), there’s an underlying issue that first has to be exposed, fully uncovered in all its ugliness, and then dealt with in full. If not, the person will never have control of their bodies, their impulses, or ultimately…their wellbeing.
Dan still thinks fat people are icky. Ewwww!
poor judgment on his part, considering he’s been fighting against the conservative/’real merikans’ exact same reaction to the ‘mos for decades.
@1079 Just wanted to say I’m in complete agreement with everything you wrote.
Lindy rocks and Andrew @2 – glad it works for you. But STFU about generalizing your experience. You’ve never been a menopausal woman and watched your body betray you. Less food, more exercise and the pounds just stay there. Even more exercise and the pounds just stay there. I worked out twice a day, 6 days a week for 4 solid months and didn’t lose one goddamn pound. I was fit as hell, very toned and couldn’t lose a single pound. So Andrew, again, STFU.
@1070. Hi Matt. I read the buildup. I wonder if she consulted Dan and told him that she’d be calling him out all over the Internet. I wonder if she showed her boss that much respect.
If she did, then good for her. But Dan’s response is more indicative of someone who feels like he’s been blindsided than not.
@1082- phew. Glad I’m not alone in my view on this issue. 😉
Lindy, you are most excellent and thank you for this post.
One thing to contribute for those who are trying to lose weight — not eating anything fatty is not necessarily healthy. The overwhelming pressure put on women, gay men, etc. to stay thin causes many to avoid important, healthy fats that can be found in sources like avocados and olive/vegetable oils. We need these fats for a healthy immune system and they are also important for having enough energy for, among other things, exercising and being active. So if you do try to change your diet, please read up and if you can afford it, see a nutritionist to make sure your body is getting what it needs.
@ Jade, maybe so. But that seems to be the way they do things on slog. I can think of other times this has happened (although not to the degree that it generated such a response).
I can see Dan being caught unaware or unprepared, but “blindsided” connotes a calculated sneak attack, and I think that’s not what happened here. (It would be in keeping with his dramatic nature to take it that way; but obviously we don’t know what’s happening in the office and we won’t have any clues until either Dan or Lindy start posting again.)
Dan is definitely a bully, and pretty cowardly. Remember the way he bullied that local TV reporter, Marlee Ginter (I think that’s her name?), because of an segment she reported that wasn’t sex-positive enough, or something like that. Dan basically tried to ruin her career, so that if you googled her name, all this stuff about sex with goats came up. She eventually had to get her lawyer on his ass, and Dan had to stop and apologize on here — but was too proud to admit he was forced to by threat of lawsuit, and said he was just doing it to be ‘nice.’ Yeah, right.
Absolutely true. I realize my posts are nothing more than speculation.
949: Wow, you completely misread and misunderstood me.
1. I was complimenting your comment at 865.
2. My “frivolous” compliment of Lindy’s shoes is sincere and not some back-handed insult to her humanity. It was an off-topic item. I’d made other comments on the thread more relevant to the discussion. Besides, my hunch is that Lindy wouldn’t object to a compliment of her shoes. If she herself didn’t appreciate nice-looking shoes, she’d be wearing Crocs or Uggs. ANYWAY…
3. My reference to brevity was re: My previous posts. As a “morbidly obese” person myself, I could’ve offered my 10 paragraphs of my trials and tribulations, but opted for brevity. That’s all. Whatever.
PS Dan not offering comments on his rebuttal speaks volumes.
Lindy, I’m sure you’ve seen this, but if you haven’t….local fantabulous actor/director Kate Jaegar’s performance of the Katie Thompson penned song, I’m Not Pregnant, from New Voices 8 …hilarious. I love Kate so much. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V99yntE9…
Every major health organization has said that obesity is unhealthy, but when Dan repeats their findings it’s wrong?
Lindy is right. And some fat people think Dan is icky.
Huh. Most of the Stranger staff made really, really supportive comments to Lindy’s post. I wonder how they feel about Dan’s cowardice? Working for someone who behaves like this must be really, um, interesting.
I predict that the only way this thread ends is to crash the system, or do an editorial cut off.
HOWEVER – the very BEST way would be for Lindy and Dan to do a joint post here (either drawn swords or a slobbering kiss and make up) and THEN do a “thank you” cut off…..
I didn’t realize the comments could go over 1000!
@1090 agreed, dan’s refusal to let anyone comment on his rebuttal speaks louder than any of his boring out of context quotes from old columns.
@1079, well said.
I read through the links in the OP that are supposed to document Dan’s fat-shaming, and seriously, I don’t see it. I see him talking with the same characteristic humorous bluntness that he brings to everything, including himself.
Again, I like both Dan and Lindy and it seems senseless that this should turn into one against the other.
@1092, your brain needs more calories. Go eat something.
You know, I think this reaction is irrational and over the top. But it also makes complete sense to me.
Food is an addiction. Over-eaters are like drug addicts.
When you criticize addicts about their drug use, they fly off the handle. They do everything in their power to convince you that you shouldn’t criticize them.
I was like that about smoking. When people talked about how it was bad for me, it made me LIVID. It was a visceral reaction, “HOW FECKING DARE YOU!”
I completely identified with Lindy’s post except change, “I’m fat” to “I’m a smoker” and make the whole thing private because it’s a much harder sell when it’s about smoking.
Especially the whole, “I’m much more likely to lose weight if you stop talking about how I should lose weight.” I’ve actually seen people make the argument, on many occasions, “When you tell me how bad it is for me, it makes me want to smoke more.”
I’m not saying it’s a lie, either. Facing a tough life change produces anxiety and your drug of choice usually helps you deal with anxiety. Laying down and giving in to that is no solution.
You probably shouldn’t live in this beautifully circular construct where you cant’ stop unless there’s no reason for you to stop. But, if there’s no reason for you to stop….
Instead, find a different way to deal with these emotions that won’t likely end your life prematurely.
@1079 … very perceptive.
The more I actually think about what Lindy wrote — and as much as I love her way with words — I think she’s just really, really off base here.
New Dan post of more evidence in rebuttal! Where is our dance-off video? Kelly O, we need your help!
Yeah, Savage comes off looking like he can’t be bothered to actually respond to what Lindy said in her post, and his unwillingness to accept comments speaks volumes about his sanctimonious character.
I’ve been reading him since The Stranger was a few pages that folded in half, and I’ve never felt so little respect for him. Boo, hiss.
hey baconcat.. thanks ..this whole thing made me think of a song. from a musical too. dan likes musicals right ? from ‘hair’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqs3FXE2A…
While I respect and agree with almost everything Lindy has to say, I must deign to address the “List of Thin Privileges” is complete bullshit. I am fairly thin for my size, through absolutely no effort of my own. I’m just like this, my favorite activities include smoking pot and ordering Pagliacci, because they will deliver gelato to my door. And while I might not be marginalized to the extent that overweight folks are, I can say that about half of that list actually *does* apply to me.
If you think that thin/underweight folks don’t get harassed for looking anorexic/too thin, or they don’t have to deal with bullshit back-handed “compliments” from friend that merely seek to single you out for making them feel bad.
And being dismissed on my opinions on fashion/food/whatever because, “oh, you’re so skinny.” I am constantly identified by the size of my body. I hear about the size of my body daily. I am grouped and stereotyped because of the size of my body.
And if you think that my size doesn’t affect my health, you’re wrong again. My sized turned a stomach flu into a 3-day hospital stay because I was so depleted and weak.
I do have to deal with unsolicited advice about my diet from people who have deemed me “too skinny.”
That list is crap.
@1100 tried: “Food is an addiction. Over-eaters are like drug addicts.”
Except that if you stop eating, you die. It’s not really the same, but do try again.
Dan’s new post seems pretty defensive. Sure, he’s managed to be civil in several questions involving overweight people. But his hatred for fatties has been pretty clear in others. He’s obviously pissed some people off, but rather than acknowledge that he’s just saying “nuh-uh.”
I’m finding Dan’s column about 90% less interesting now. He doesn’t really say anything novel. I guess I used to read it partly because he seemed like a good guy.
I think Lindy is really pretty.