Bravo to 61 (john Hostman) and 64 (DRF). Couldn't have said it better.

Re: FAP. I too don't quite get the whole "women who can't orgasm" dilemma. I've been orgasming since I was 11 and have never owned a vibrator. I've seen documentaries on sleep studies and/or human sexuality that show both men and women become aroused and climax during sleep. I had plenty of "wet dreams" as a teenager. So if both men and women climax during their sleep cycles how can all these women say they've "never had an orgasm"? They probably have, but for various psychological reasons they suppress the memory or are in denial about it.

I wouldn't go rushing out to buy every piece of plastic electronic toy if I was a non-orgasmic woman. I'd do a little self examination (maybe with a good psychologist) and ask myself why I might be not allowing my self to cum (not self-blaming, just ask why). Maybe this is a religious thing (sex is dirty, girls who enjoy it are dirty), maybe it's cultural or maybe there was an incident of abuse in this woman's childhood??? Deep shame is a real kill joy.

Re: the latest GLBT teen committing suicide. I'm sorry this happened, it's terrible but so is teen bullying and suicide in general.

Do I think GLBT teens are at greater risk to commit suicide because of social pressures OUTSIDE of school (church, family, etc.)? Yes.

Do I think GLBT teens are the only friggin' teens on earth to suffer bullying as Dan has repeatedly implied? HELL NO!!!

Saying (or even implying this) is like saying the only people who have contracted, suffered and died from HIV are gay men. Wow, talk about myopic. It's time to stop playing the Victim Violin. Bullying is bad, HIV is terrible but they happen to all sorts of people: straight, gay, bi, white, black, American, foreign, etc. When you play the Victim Violin that loud Dan, you can't hear any of those other voices.

Dan, I can't quite fit this massive black dildo up my ass. How can we blame the GOP?

Dan,

Quite a timely topic. A paper came out just this week addressing the byproduct theory of female orgasm (or as a previous commenter rightly put it, hypothesis not theory), and they couldn't find evidence to support it in a place they'd expect to. Not the last word, as science proceeds in baby steps, but still. So yes indeed, this is an interesting area of current research.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art…

or the more popular

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/0…

Dan,

Quite a timely topic. A paper came out just this week addressing the byproduct theory of female orgasm (or as a previous commenter rightly put it, hypothesis not theory), and they couldn't find evidence to support it in a place they'd expect to (an opposite-sex twins study). Not the last word, as science proceeds in baby steps, but still. So yes indeed, this is an interesting area of current research, and nobody really knows what's up.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art…

or the more popular

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/0…

@204 cheron and @205 Crinoline: Thanks for the helpful suggestions!
Any advice for a pre-menopausal gal with lubrication problems?

@208 FutureKitty: I can think of lots of ways!

I remember hearing what a huge journey it is for the sperm to reach the ovum, as they are so small and the journey is the equivalent of a human traveling hundreds of miles (or whatever). I recently saw this, and it made incredible sense: the female orgasm is a selector. It causes internal contractions that not only draw the sperm up the path at break-neck speeds, but even draw it up the correct path (as there are two ovaries and only one is producing at any given time). I don't think we can say it's merely a vestigial sensation, because I think females are the original gender; the penis is just an adapted clitoris after all.

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/…

@211, re: lubrication problems--

When you say pre-menopausal, do you mean peri-menopausal? When you say lubrication problems, is it every time you have sex? If not and you're lubricating some of the time or most of the time, can you work out a pattern? My questions are geared towards trying to figure out if a hormonal fix is in order. Ovaries sputter out hormones some times more regularly than others. (That's pre-, peri-, and post- menopause. The ovaries keep sputtering.) The trick is to figure out which hormones are missing and give those a boost. For this, you need a doctor. It's easy enough for me to say get a little estrogen, but I don't know nearly enough about the subject to say for sure. Also, easy enough for me to tell you to find a doctor, but my own record on that count has been horrible. It's easy to find a doctor to prescribe hormonal birth control, hard, in my experience, to find one who knows about hormones and how they relate to desire and lubrication.

A product might be in order. It will be called "lubricating jelly" or "water-based" or "personal lubricant" or "compare to K-Y Jelly." It can be applied with a finger, penis, or (and it took some looking for this) an application device normally used for spermical jelly.

The subject gets complicated. Are you sure the problem is lubrication and not relaxation and expansion of the pelvic floor muscles? They usually go together but not necessarily. Again, friends can pass around information, and they may hit on the right diagnosis and recommendation, but in the end, a doctor, if you can find one, is the right way to go.

( My example recently is kegels. I'd been doing them wrong for years. They're not hard, but as with any exercise to learn to strengthen and relax muscles, it can help to have someone tell you how to do them right including breathing and isolating correctly.)

@206:

Personally, I don't quite get the whole "people who can't reach things on high shelves" dilemma. I've been reaching things on high shelves since I hit puberty and have never owned a step stool.

I wouldn't go rushing out to buy all sorts of step stools and step ladders if I were a person who couldn't reach things on high shelves. I'd do a little self examination (maybe with a good psychologist) and ask myself why I might be not allowing myself to reach things on high shelves (not self-blaming, just ask why).

. . . Wait, what's that you say? Just because I'm six feet tall, it doesn't mean that everybody else is six feet tall? And somebody who happens to be, say, five foot one might legitimately need a step stool to reach the top shelf? Huh. Freaky.

@213 "I'd been doing them wrong for years." Any advice that would have been helpful? How did you figure it out?

215, EricaP-- Nothing I can explain in writing. A doctor recommended a physical therapist who specializes in the pelvic floor. She taught me to them properly with individualized instruction.

@206: "So if both men and women climax during their sleep cycles how can all these women say they've "never had an orgasm"? They probably have, but for various psychological reasons they suppress the memory or are in denial about it."

Wait, what, now? I remember as a teenaged boy waking up a few times with a mess in my underwear, but I don't remember the actual orgasms that produced said mess. Surely you aren't claiming I'm suppressing the memory or in denial about it? Remember, I was ASLEEP at the time.

@213 Crinoline: Thanks for the helpful advice. I'm 47, so I'm pre-menopausal, and currently taking progesterone cream to balance my hormones. Additionally, I take 3-mile walks and take vitamin D3/Calcium and B complex supplements. Too much estrogen, a common problem for many middle aged women, is supposed to be bad, because it can lead to hair loss from where you want it, facial hair where you DON'T want it, and other undesirable health problems.

You're right; I don't think it's just a lubrication problem. I have been wondering about having kegel muscle tension, and not being able to relax my pelvic floor. Consequently, I have experienced painful pelvic exams lately that resulted in a thin bloody discharge upon discovering that my vaginal walls are sensitive. I've repeatedly asked my gynecologist about this, and she amazingly has few answers!

I haven't had sex since after leaving a toxic relationship ten years ago. While I'm otherwise happily enjoying an independent, single life, is it possible that prolonged sexual inactivity can cause health problems, too?
I guess I'm old fashioned, but I'm uncomfortable with just randomly leaping into bed with someone I don't know well and feel anything special for.

Auntie Grizelda-- Remember the source for everything that follows. I'm not a gynocologist, not a doctor, not even working in a health field. I'm a middle aged lady who likes to google things on the internet. If others jump in on this thread, consider their (lack of) credentials too. Even the best doctors would run from giving specific advice anonymously in a comments section. For that matter, the more one knows about treating patients, the less likely one is to give advice without an in-person exam and a full history. Keep that in mind as you read the rest of this post.

The question of "balanced" hormones is a difficult one. It's not easy to get it exactly right. It may take several tries. I googled on "symptoms too much estrogen" and did not find head hair loss and facial hair gain. I did find that the loss of estrogen that comes with peri-menopause can lead to the thinning of vaginal walls.

You need to go back to your GYN with your concerns. If your GYN dismisses your concerns or gives you the I-don't-know, ask her to find out for you or to recommend a specialist who can help. Too often, doctors think that because they've screened you for cancer, they don't have to do anything else. I'm appalled (but not surprised) that your GYN thinks that painful pelvic exams and a bloody discharge during them can be disregarded. I may not know what causes it and what will help, but I do know that that's not acceptable, and I suspect the problem is related to too much progesterone causing the effects of too little estrogen.

I have read that regular intercourse as we get older is supposed to be beneficial for our vaginal health, supposed to help with lubrication and toned pelvic floor muscles, but I have not heard anyone recommending random sex with people you don't want to sleep with as a cure! It seems like that would tighten up the muscles for sure and smacks of the old teenage come-on line that the girl should have sex with him because it will clear up her acne.

I'm conscious that finding the right doctor is hard, but it's worth it even if it means paying full price without insurance coverage.

Sad state when a death of a kid is put on the back burner to some chick not getting off. The kid could have been the one to solve the problem for all down the road by doing research in that field RIP, Just saying.

@221: I posted my condolences regarding the suicide of Jamey Rodemeyer, and to all who knew him. It truly is sad that Jamey took his life because of shamefully cruel bullying going on at his school. Worse yet, the bullying could have been prevented. Please read my post @166.

Although I'm lightyears past the tender age of 16, I jumped into the lubrication problems fray, too, because I had questions of my own on that subject.

@222 cockyballsup: Too much testosterone can cause problems, too, yes, but I have been struggling with too much estrogen in the past, and this was the issue I was referring to.

@219: I'm aware that you're not a doctor, but I appreciate your advice, mainly because you're a woman, too, and can empathize about my situation.
Is there a decent gynecologist in the Puget Sound area that you would recommend? My primary health care provider is the VA, largely because I cannot afford anyone else.

@222: Also, many doctors erroneously prescribe too high of estrogen dosages to their pre-, peri-, and menopausal patients. Often this creates an unhealthy hormonal imbalance for many.

@216 thanks; the take-away seems to be that it might be useful to schedule a consult with a physical therapist who specializes in the pelvic floor.

May I ask what words you said to your doctor to get that referral? Or at least, can you say if it was more along the lines of incontinence or sexual dysfunction?

Had to come here after reading to column to help. Didn't have an orgasm until mid 20s. Think of it like a sneeze or a hiccup, it's a body's response to something, but it's not something you can MAKE happen. It would be like saying "Sneeze right now, make it happen." And you can't, because a sneeze occurs naturally.

You have to set the conditions for the orgasm to happen. I would suggest getting a small, cheap vibe if you don't have one. If you're on birth control, get off it and use condoms because it definitely affects your libido. Go to a tube website and search around for some porn you really like. Get in a comfortable position, if you don't like light, turn it off. Do only what YOU like, watch stuff that turns you on. Use the vibe on the top of your clitoral hood, not directly on the clitoris. Remember it's all about the tissue up inside the body, you want to stimulate that with vibrations.

Most important is what is going on inside your head. If your saying things like "this will never happen" or "I am fat", or anything self-conscious, you will inhibit yourself. Lose yourself to fantasy. Have a glass of wine or toke to relax. Don't TRY to have an orgasm, just vibrate and enjoy, watch porn...and it will happen, or it won't! Keep at it, and eventually you will figure out how to make it happen, and it gets easier each time after.

If you're with a guy who is obsessed with giving you an orgasm for him ego, tell him to knock it off, just take orgasm off the table and have great sex until you figure it out. Don't pressure yourself, that is the biggest inhibitor!

Had to come here after reading to column to help. Didn't have an orgasm until mid 20s. Think of it like a sneeze or a hiccup, it's a body's response to something, but it's not something you can MAKE happen. It would be like saying "Sneeze right now, make it happen." And you can't, because a sneeze occurs naturally.

You have to set the conditions for the orgasm to happen. I would suggest getting a small, cheap vibe if you don't have one. If you're on birth control, get off it and use condoms because it definitely affects your libido. Go to a tube website and search around for some porn you really like. Get in a comfortable position, if you don't like light, turn it off. Do only what YOU like, watch stuff that turns you on. Use the vibe on the top of your clitoral hood, not directly on the clitoris. Remember it's all about the tissue up inside the body, you want to stimulate that with vibrations.

Most important is what is going on inside your head. If your saying things like "this will never happen" or "I am fat", or anything self-conscious, you will inhibit yourself. Lose yourself to fantasy. Have a glass of wine or toke to relax. Don't TRY to have an orgasm, just vibrate and enjoy, watch porn...and it will happen, or it won't! Keep at it, and eventually you will figure out how to make it happen, and it gets easier each time after.

If you're with a guy who is obsessed with giving you an orgasm for him ego, tell him to knock it off, just take orgasm off the table and have great sex until you figure it out. Don't pressure yourself, that is the biggest inhibitor!

@215 and @216: I have the same questions as EricaP.

FAP- hold on! It took me until I was 30... now it takes a very patient partner w/ oral sex or a strong vibrator for up to an hour... but it can happen =)

EricaP and AuntieG-- Re: Why a doctor would recommend a physical therapist to teach pelvic floor exercises (used to be called kegeling, not sure why there's been a switch).

A urogynecologist brought up the idea when I saw her for a possible bladder problem, not incontinence. I'd never heard of that sort of specialized physical therapist before she made the referral. For that matter, I'd never heard of a urogynecologist before either. Getting older + peri-menopause is opening up whole new pathways of knowledge for me, whole worlds to explore .

202-Black Rose: "The only criticisms of Palmer and Thornhill I've seen all seem to confuse stating something is adaptive with approving it."

Look at the Amazon reviews of A Natural History of Rape for criticisms that state that the problem with Palmer and Thornhill is that their book is based on questionable studies, data so filtered that it's practically falsified, and bad science.

@231: Thanks--I'll check it out.

@214

I regularly thank the good lord I was born short, not anorgasmic.
Being short at least confers benefits.

@234, thanks for pointing me to 214.

echizen @214, as someone who loves her hitachi, I very much enjoyed that, thanks!

@214: thank you for handling with humor what I want to do with a non-satiric scolding!
@206: This is exactly the kind of "advice" that makes an anorgasmic woman think she is broken.
Why not try a vibrator first, anyway? They're certainly a lot cheaper than the psychologist you suggested?

A sex therapist I saw when I was frustrated by my inability to orgasm without a vibrator was great in helping me see that everyone's body is different, and that some of us just need an amount of stimulation at a speed per hour that no human body can reach.

@184 Oh I definitely agree that there's a difference. But while I have had what I called a "fly off the bed" orgasm many times, sometimes you can have that release in a less obvious way. And I think that for someone who is expecting every single one to be the most mind blowing thing every... well they may have a release, and not realize that, yep that's it. I think the way it's explained on www.dodsonandross.com is much better than the way I explain it. A lot of the women who write to her talk about a release and pleasure, but no orgasm, and they're just expecting something different than the truth.
I've also noticed that as I've gotten older I've gotten more orgasmic and they've gotten more intense. I'm sure part of that is biological and part is just me being more comfortable in my own skin.
I enjoy my orgasms in all there forms. Mind blowing ones, softer ones... however they come. But that's also like how a clitoral orgasm is different than a g-spot or vaginal orgasm. Or even one from nipple stimulation. And I'm sure an anal orgasm would feel different from the above (haven't had one yet, though I'm pretty sure I was close). So I think the biggest thing is really not to let it worry you so much and enjoy what you're getting. If there isn't something physically wrong, and you are genuinely attracted to your partner, why not try to just enjoy and let it happen?

I parallel the idea of female orgasm being a by-product to the Christians saying women came from one of Adam’s ribs. An afterthought. Human beings are sexist but evolution is not. Evolution sees the benefits of humans feeling this intense pleasure to reproduce and a reason to keep living. Men and women are not all that different, therefore the thought that a woman’s orgasm is less than (a by-product) does not seem plausible. We do start out the same when we are embryos and we would all turn female but to turn into a male the embryo has to do some work. So, logically, if we are naturally supposed to turn out all female why would we be without a very human (not male trait) of a sexual organ?

I don’t see why she would need drugs—relax—it’s sex. It’s supposed to be fun. You’re supposed to have fun with your partner. And if you’re not—look for a new partner. Life’s too short to not orgasm with or without a partner.

There could be the distinct possibility that FAP is a lesbian but is afraid to venture into that realm. Especially if she has crappy over-protective parents/family (especially brothers). Like conservative religious types, or even 'traditional' Eastern European parents that really don't like the whole 'gay idea'. If she's brave enough, she should explore some lady time if it's ever been an inkling. It could be that missing piece to the puzzle...

Why would you go into a relationship with a person with a child and is not the case that BOTH of you are inlove.....???? ridiculous situation to get into. Now the baby is a victim. You also need to go into therapy. Serious therapy.

FAP use the sex toy called WEE VIBE...You should orgasm in no time with that....

To FAP, one very easy thing to try is drinking more water! I know it sounds totally random, but being well hydrated really helps me get wet, which in turn makes orgasm WAYYYY easier.

Seriously, and people still roll their eyes at me when I say we need our own homeland, San Francisco and Seattle don't count, we need our own country where we make the rules and these little bigots can be kept out or thrown in prison.

On the evolutionary psychology thing...

There may or may not be problems with real, proper, scientific evo psych, but there are definitely problems with *pop* evo psych.

The base problem is that it is nearly impossible, with any complex or nuanced scientific subject, to simultaneously explain the matter in a way that a general audience can understand, and explain the matter in a way that is entirely correct. So, any pop science tends to be, at best, a crude approximation of the real thing, and at worst, utterly wrong.

I've always said "It gets better" is a hollow gesture coming from a very privileged perspective. It doesn't get better for everyone. I'm out as trans now, and as an adult I'm bullied more than ever, by other adults, by gay people.
Maybe we have to literally fight to change culturally,instead of teaming up with google to commodify teen suicide.

This story is killing me. It reminds me of Phoebe Prince who lived in Massachusettes and killed herself in 2010 due to continual bullying by her school peers(not about her sexual orientation - but still it was bullying). All 9 of the teenagers involved in her bullying have been charged criminally. Two are being tried in adult court. I don't know if the trial is over yet but I think this is a wonderful outcome. Phoebe's law has been passed in the state as well as the Department of Justice Federal Code Regarding Aggravated Bullying Harassment, a recently passed law in the Union of Everett outlawing all forms of bullying and harassment in schools, in the neighborhood or online on the internet. A shame we have to be reactive rather than proactive. The law came too late for Phoebe. Perhaps young Jamey didn't live in an area where he was protected by law or even knew of its existence. Young people sometimes know they have legal rights but are still reluctant to pursue them. SCHOOLS NEED TO BE MORE ACTIVE IN QUASHING ANTI-LGBT ATTITUDES, COMMENTS, BULLYING, ASSAULTS, ETC. This stuff happens in the schools and there is no way any principal can convince me that s/he isn't aware of it. Clearly many schools' anti-bullying programs aren't cutting it. Time for Plan B....whatever it is.
sincerely,
an elementary schoolteacher in Ontario, Canada

The explanation I remember about the human female's orgasm (sorry, I don't have the references) is that it was an adaptation for walking upright. If, after sex, the female just got up and walked away, gravity would inhibit the sperms' journey. So, if you're trying to get her pregnant guys, you better please her *really* well.....

I prefer the Sex At Dawn theory, even if it's icky: women have intense but delayed orgasms to encourage them to fuck multiple men who each get off, lose interest, and make room for someone new. The woman ends up with the sperm of multiple men duking it out inside of her, and everyone winds up happy, encouraging group cohesion, cooperation, and survival. Hooray!

I would like to suggest to FAP to watch the movie Shortbus (2006), http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0367027/
its mainly about a woman in a similar situation. Very good movie!

I would like to suggest to FAP to watch the movie Shortbus (2006), http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0367027/
its mainly about a woman in a similar situation. Very good movie!