My boyfriend of 16 months and
I have a great relationship. He loves my blowjobs, but he will not kiss
me if I have his come in my mouth. It grosses him out. We have talked
about this, and he won’t even try. I have no problem if he kisses me
after going down on me. I just want him to try. Is there something
wrong with asking him to taste himself? I do it all the time and love
it.
Missing Kisses
It’s funny that your question—with its
hint of gay panic—should arrive today. I’ve been on vacation with
the family all week snowboarding in beautiful British Columbia, and
what I enjoy most—besides the snowboarding and the half-naked,
fully stoned Australian snowboard instructors lolling around in hot
tubs at the end of the day—is watching the straight boys who
refuse to sit four to a chairlift. They want to ride up alone or ride
up two at a time on a four-seater with two empty seats between ’em.
They seem to think gayness can be contracted through thigh-to-thigh
contact.
Which it can.
Now, MK, there’s kissing someone with your
come on her breath and then there’s kissing someone with your come in
her mouth. It sounds like you’re interested in the latter, which makes
it sound like you’re interested in passing some of your boyfriend’s
load into his mouth—i.e., snowballing—and not simply being
rewarded with a kiss, his come on your breath, for a blowjob well-done.
And that’s an entirely different wad of spunk.
Just because you enjoy tasting yourself on
his lips doesn’t mean your boyfriend will enjoy or should have to enjoy
mouthing his own load. First, there’s a significant difference in
volume and consistency between your kissing his glazed lips and his
eating his own spunk. And then there’s this: After a woman comes, MK,
she’s still in a groove, still capable of more orgasms, still cranked
up. After ejaculating, a man is essentially uncranked. He’s not capable
of another orgasm (not right away, anyway)—he’s been knocked out
of his groove. So even if the idea of snowballing appeals to a man as
you’re blowing him, it might not hold the same appeal the moment after
he comes.
Some men are afraid of tasting their own
come because they believe that doing so, like sitting too close on a
chairlift, can turn a guy gay. And it’s not an unreasonable fear: not
because it will turn a guy gay, but because, judging from my mail, a
lot of women are convinced that any man who would taste his own come
must secretly be gay. It’s possible that your boyfriend is dying to
taste himself, MK, but, like the boys on the chairlifts, is afraid of
getting a reputation if he goes ahead with this and you blab about it
to your friends.
I am at the Meshuggah show at
El Corazón as I write this. There are tons of guys I consider
hot here, 98 percent of whom, I’m sure, are straight. But I got a vibe
off this one guy. This is such a macho environment, though, that
there’s a considerable amount of danger in asking the question “So, you
gay?”
I remember an episode of Law and Order where
Jerry Orbach tried to determine if a suspect was in AA by asking a
secret question, something like “Are you a friend of Bill W.?” The idea
was that the question was innocuous if you weren’t in AA.
Since you are the king of “santorum” and
“pegging” and “saddlebacking,” I thought maybe you could invent a
secret question for masculine gay men in masculine environments.
Something like, “Hey, do you like to barbecue?” So how ’bout it? Can
you declare the official secret are-you-a-masculine-gay-guy
question?
Men Are Cute Hot Objects
The best I could come up with on my own,
MACHO, was this: “A Little Night Music—
original
Broadway cast recording or original London cast?” But that line will
get your ass kicked in a lot of gay bars—as I know from bitter
experience. So let’s toss this out to my readers, the folks who came up
with the definitions for “santorum,” “pegging,” and “saddlebacking”:
Okay, gang, we’re looking for an innocuous question that (1) all fags
everywhere would know the answer to, but (2) no straight guys anywhere
would. My long-suffering interns—their uniforms chafe—await
your suggested questions at mail@savagelove.net.
I had to refrain from opening
this with “Hey, Asshole!” (oops, guess I kind of just did) after
reading your advice to Sex Best One On One, the woman who married a man
who warned her that he could not be monogamous and who then realized
she couldn’t share him. While I agree with your assessment of SBOOO’s
husband—up-front, honest—your assessment of SBOOO is
obviously influenced by your need to have a good rant at
polyamory-unfriendly marriage counselors, family, friends, and the
world at large. SBOOO does not have to apologize for who she is (not as
willing to do long-term nonmonogamy as previously thought) to elitist,
more-liberated-than-thou jerk-offs (hint: you!) after giving it a good
fucking try (12 times!). Pun intended.
Loving Toronto Reader
I am a polyamorist. I am
always up-front with my partners about this, especially if I want to
get serious with them. So many people seem to say that they are fine
with it out of some kind of misguided assumption that they can
eventually change my mind. You know, “Polyamory isn’t real; it’s just a
phase!” You know, like being gay.
I just wanted to say thank you for your
reply to SBOOO! I couldn’t have said it better myself. That was an
absolutely fantastic response. Just like you said, counselors (and for
that matter, family members) always see the polyamorist as the bad guy,
unreasonably refusing to take the simple, easy route of strict
monogamy. It was really nice to finally have someone stand up for us.
Thank you!
While I’m sure you enjoy positive feedback,
saying thank you is cheap. A lot of times you plug various charities
and causes in your column—is there any group you’d like me to
donate to as a more concrete symbol of my appreciation?
Longtime Fan
Some folks think I was too hard on SBOOO,
some think I was just hard enough. Like I said in my original response,
I intentionally came down hard on SBOOO to compensate for the vast and
overwhelming majority of advice professionals who would, per LF, side
aggressively with her because a nonmonogamous partner—even an
honest one like SBOOO’s mate—is always perceived as the bad
guy.
For the record: I am not biased toward
nonmonogamy. But I do think monogamous people should be with each other
and refrain from marrying folks who are self-aware enough to inform
them in advance that they don’t think they’re capable of being
monogamous.
Some folks who wrote in about my advice for
SBOOO raised a good point: I should have come down on the husband as
well. If nonmonogamy was a deal breaker for him, then he was a fool to
marry SBOOO before verifying her ability to be nonmonogamous. Agreed.
So, for the record: SBOOO’s husband? You’re an idiot, too.
Finally, LF, I’m always happy to see money
go to Planned Parenthood.
Perfect follow-up to the SBOOO feedback. 🙂
Is it wrong that I think it would be cute to see four straight guys next to each other on a chair lift?
Okay, here’s the problem with MACHO’s question. Everyone knows (sober alcoholics, raging alcoholics and non-alcoholics) that “friend of Bill W.” means AA. And, for those who didn’t know, now they do.
When I got sober (over ten years ago), someone told me it was secret code. I *never* use Bill W as secret code, cuz it hasn’t been a secret in many years.
Also, didn’t “gay” used to be a secret term. Didn’t folks back in the day ask “Are you gay?” and non-gays thought it meant happy and gays thought it meant queer?
Psh, I’ll sit four-to-a-chairlift. I’d sit with a guy in my lap, and I’m pretty straight. Anything for the snow.
I’d never heard the Bill W. thing before. Hm. You learn something every day. But not all shibboleths are common knowledge. Do you have stairs in your house?
Hey Torontonian – why don’t you take umbridge with Sasha? Your ‘Listen to me I’m the Centre of the Universe’ tone does not wash on this side of the 49th.
“Are you a friend of Dorothy’s?”
Or:
“Callas or Tebaldi?”
No way he totally gave the “Open minded girl” an appropriate response
What question would make a good shibboleth? Something that would fit in at a Superbowl party or a deer hunt, but be recognizable to those in the know.
Makenna:
yes, i am protected
I’m not sure I agree with your assessment of MK’s question. She said her boyfriend wouldn’t kiss her after fellatio. That seems like she’s not talking about snowballing; she’s talking about kissing, I would think post-swallowing. In that case, he’s probably still hung up on the “gross” factor: the common straight-guy conception of semen-as-waste-product, not unlike urine or feces, that must stay away from their mouths. I tend to think of this as a red flag in relationships; if he thinks of his semen as revolting, then why is he okay with her having to swallow it? Thoughts on that?
I think “friend of Dorothy’s” is pretty appropriate. I’ve heard it once before, but I think it could be pretty useful. Or maybe “friend of Judy/Liza.”
Hmmmm, all male setting but not wanting to tip off or piss off the all males. The easiest thing would be just “How bout them Rams?” (naturally it would change in different states/regions) and the obviously straight guy would blab about the team and the not so straight reply could be just a look of the eye – or a simple “… yessss”
🙂
fuck yeah BC!!!
For Macho,
What if he asked if the guy knew (name of popular gay porn star)? Guys who don’t watch gay porn, that is straight guys, probably won’t know, gay dudes will. Plus it is a quick test if your porn tastes are the same.
There’s a third possibility, Dan, that you missed. In his curious pubescent explorations, it is very possible that he’s already tasted his own cum & didn’t like it. I speak from experience. I think a lot of other guys have as well. (I can’t be THAT unique.)
I had a gf who was just like MK, she wanted to ‘share’ and I politely declined. She did have a strange peculiarity, she was very shy (and sometimes downright reluctant) for me to go down on her. Which is something that I love, can’t seem to get enough. There’s something about the smell of warm, wet pussy that gets me all hot & bothered.
I think it’s simply just hormones. I’m straight, I like smelling the hormones women give off. Straight women & gay men get excited smelling men & their hormones. I think LC needs to get off her high egalitarian horse. There’s a big difference between equality and homogeny.
“…but he will not kiss me if I have his come in my mouth.”
LC, this wording makes me think that’s specifically NOT meant to be post-swallowing. How would it still be in her mouth if she already swallowed?
what about feminine dykes?
“Some men are afraid of tasting their own come.”
WHAT?! This from the sex columnist who encourages partners to be GGG? Honey … There’s a lot worse your partner could ask for.
I don’t think I’ve ever heard Dan say anything along the lines of, “Some men [or women] are AFRAID of having a cock stuffed up their ass.” Hmm …
So are we sure that the MK article wasn’t about two guys?
“
What if he asked if the guy knew (name of popular gay porn star)? Guys who don’t watch gay porn, that is straight guys, probably won’t know, gay dudes will. “
This is the first thing that came to my mind. Dan, in one of the podcasts you sussed out that a caller was gay because he referenced a porn actor and I almost didn’t even register that he said it.
Another possibility: “Are you a santorum fan?”
I’m a fan of Savage Love, and I just finished reading The Committment and thought it was great, but Dan is definitely biased towards non-monogamy. Any time the topic comes up (in the column, the podcast, or on Slog), in any context, he rants about how it’s irrational and unnatural and can’t be successful. That’s fine, just don’t then follow it up with “I’m not biased towards non-monogamy.”
I agree w/ Ananda–the guy should try it at least once, just to be GGG. Even if it’s full snow-balling. Maybe if he’s super opposed, she should trade him something SHE really doesn’t want to do but he’s into.
I personally don’t mind kissing my wife post-swallow, but SHE actually seems quite reluctant to do so, I think because she hates the taste of (at least my) jizz, and doesn’t want to inflict it on me. Thank god I’ve never had a snowballing request from her…
@MACHO Back to the hankerchiefs in back pockets, huh?
My boyfriend was originally reluctant to kiss me after I had given him a blowjob. There was no hint of snowballing; he was just that freaked out by his own come. He pointed out that he hadn’t asked me to go down on him and probably never would have asked, because he did think it was kind of degrading. I pointed out it wasn’t degrading if I wanted to do it, I was the one who got to be in control, and if he ever wanted a blowjob again he was going to kiss me afterward, period.
We worked up to it. For a while he would kiss me on the cheek or the corner of my mouth, hold me, and find other ways to be affectionate. Now we’re ok with normal making out after a blowjob. But baby steps helped.
“straight boys who refuse to sit four to a chairlift…[because they] think gayness can be contracted through thigh-to-thigh contact.”
Nah. I ski, sleep in the same bed as a gay dude when we travel, and am still 101% straight. (Unless my travel companion used roofies on me at some point. =)
When I want to ride solo or less-than-full lifts it is because I enjoy quietly looking at the mountains, rather than having some fool yammer at me the whole lift ride about coming up from Denver where he is a stock broker, and, hey buddy, how is your portfolio doing these days….etc.
Have you been to see the Stonewall?
How can there be come in her mouth if she’s already swallowed? Because come can be sticky and gooey and one swallow doesn’t take care of all of it. It sure doesn’t get rid of the taste right away, which is probably a factor in his distaste.
Didn’t guys used to wear red ties to show their hot-guy-on-guy-action proclivities? I think any “code word” would quickly become well known among the general public. What about, “How ’bout that Proposition 8?” or “don’t you just love the new Pet Shop Boys single?”LOL
Seriously, isn’t part of the fun having those conversations that are chock full of nuance and innuendo?
“Are you a friend of Dorothy?” is already the standard phrase.
If it’s not in widespread use, I would guess it’s because it’s not very reliable. If someone answers “yes” to this question, you can be certain he’s gay (and that he now knows you’re gay). But if a guy answers “no” he could be straight, or he could be gay dude who doesn’t know that code. The same would apply to any similar code.
I’m a college student and I love euphamisms so I’ve spent a lot of time revelling in some of the shibboleths and I’ve come to the conclusion that too many gays are divorced from their own culture now for just ONE to be possible. Even the very openly gay guys I know don’t understand “Are you a friend of Dorothy?” I know gays who haven’t seen Will and Grace and who don’t know who Maria Callas is. Many of my friends don’t know Judy, much less that Liza (with a Z) is her daughter. Gays have lost the need for a secret culture. Best I can tell the only good way to figure it out is to ask if they watch Desperate Housewives or Gossip Girl.
Dan, unless you had reason to know otherwise, I think you assumed MK is a lady. Not necessarily so. My BF won’t taste his and he’s gay.
Just as “Friends of Bill W.” has become common knowledge, the gay litmus test question will too, so it needs a “gay” answer and a “straight” answer.
How about, “Who’s your favorite Yankee” and the straight answer is “Ruth” and the gay answer is “A. Rod.”
Callas, most assuredly.
/mostly straight
The first thing that popped into my head was the Continuum. I don’t know about you other homos, but when i came out I found that lots of other gays and the same talk.
The talk was that sexuality was a continuum and I might move around it, blah, blah, blah.
But knowing kids today I bet they never heard of it.
But the whole thing is silly, You need to work on your flirting if you don’t think you can flirt perceptively enough to find out if he is gay.
I don’t like having my boyfriend kiss me after he goes down on me. I did it for about a year without complaining ,hoping I’d get used to the taste, but I never did. Its not THAT bad a taste, but it just makes me a lot less into making out. I finally explained this to him and now he does a quick rinse with listerine afterwards.
You were backstage with AC/DC?
As I was reading MK’s question, my thirst thought was the the boyfriend is scared jerk. If you are asking someone to suck your dick, you can’t complain if you can taste it when you kiss them. That comes with the territory so to speak. Don’t like it? No blow jobs for you.
Then I read Dan’s answer suggesting that the guy doesn’t want to snowball and his reasons why. It is not an unreasonable answer. I’ve been in that position myself. I told my wife she should snowball me, but as soon as I came, the switch was turned off and I just didn’t care anymore. Still did, but the act didn’t have the erotic thrill or connection that I had in my mind.
Dan is right. Guys have an off switch and it is about half a second after ejaculation. I’ll cop to be guilty of that and admitting I’m off even faster and I have a longer than average refactory period.
However the letter didn’t say that she was talking about snowballing. She compared it to kissing after going down on her, which I would take to mean that she may have a drop or two on her lips, but she has either swallowed the majority or it is on another part of her face/body.
Hate to say it, but I disagree.
But what do I know, I’m not the expert. 🙂
bob
How about asking someone if they are “a friend of Bertha’s?” which is one some lesbians I know have used. Or “in the family” is another one that I’ve heard…but these are from women, so I don’t know if they translate to the boyz…
the problem with any secret code/question is that by the time everyone who you want to know it knows it, a lot of people who you don’t want to know it will also know it. Just like a lot of people who’ve never been to AA know who Bill W. is, a lot of non gay and even gay unfriendly people will end up knowing what our question means, rendering it useless for its intended purpose.
“I don’t think I’ve ever heard Dan say anything along the lines of, “Some men [or women] are AFRAID of having a cock stuffed up their ass.” Hmm …”
Ananda, that’s a good point, but you are overlooking a difference between a woman receiving anal and a guy eating his own cum: The woman receiving anal will only endear herself more to her man, but the man tasting his own cum (as D.S. points out) runs the risk of alienating his woman by putting the seeds (no pun intended) in her mind that her man might be gay.
Yeah, I know that you and your female friends probably wouldn’t react this way to a guy kissing you after you blow him. Plenty of woman would, though … even some of the ones who request a snowball.
On the other hand, these two have been together for 16 months, so she’s probably pretty damn sure he’s straight by now. This guy needs to suck it up.
Not sure how I feel about the spunk flavored kiss- Generally, I won’t lay it on a guy, because I know most guys are squeamish. And yes, it does seem like a double standard given that I’m expected to lick his fingers, make out with him and taste myself like I’m a porn star.
Maybe I should do the snow ball test to see if he really loves me,lol. Pass: I marry him. Fail: it’s back to trolling the internet for a date so I can find a guy who is secure enough in his masculinity to eat his own jizz.
“the problem with any secret code/question is that by the time everyone who you want to know it knows it, a lot of people who you don’t want to know it will also know it.”
This is just like straight people (mostly straight guys) ruining fun gay clubs or ruining Halloween in the Castro. This is not a reason to abandon code; just to keep changing it.
My ex would never kiss after I swallowed his cum and I thought the same thing as LC, “Why is it okay for me to swallow it and you won’t even kiss me?!” That said, it wasn’t a deal-breaker. I’d drink a few gulps of water and kissing would resume later. My current boyfriend has no qualms about sticking his tongue in my mouth moments after I’ve swallowed (but no interest in snowballing, either) and now, having felt the immediate intimacy of the post-BJ kiss, it probably would be a deal breaker in the future. If I were MK, “I won’t swallow if you won’t kiss.” and if he won’t kiss, spit the cum right on his pubes afterwards and make him clean it up himself!
“Dan is definitely biased towards non-monogamy. Any time [monogamy]comes up … in any context, he rants about how it’s irrational and unnatural and can’t be successful.”
Well, you’re exaggerating. Dan doesn’t say monogamy can’t be successful- he says it is rarely successful. Big difference.
Saying that monogamy is rarely successful is not a bias; it is objective fact.
Those straight boys who won’t sit four to a chairlift are actually snowboarders who haven’t yet figured out how to get off a chairlift without falling. Skiers and snowboarders who know what they’re doing just want to get up the mountain as fast as possible.
“if he thinks of his semen as revolting, then why is he okay with her having to swallow it? Thoughts on that?”
LC, maybe he is OK with his woman swallowing his cum because he knows that it does not bother her. Like vegetarian who makes a ham sandwich for their lover.
Also, for a lot of people, the idea of each lover having a particular role in the sex is part of the fun. This guy, like most straight guys, gets off on his woman taking the role of the cum swallower.
This guy may be telling MK and even himself that he won’t snowball because he is “grossed out,” but the taste of cum may in fact be a secondary issue. The primary issue may be that he just doesn’t want to alter the cum-role-dynamic, like a guy who spanks his woman but doesn’t want her to spank him.
Is this fair? Not really. But it’s different from what you seem to be implying: that MK’s man must have a low opinion of MK because he likes her doing something which he himself does not want to do. Selfishness and misogyny often go together, but they are not exactly the same thing.
“Don’t we go to the same church?” used to be code for, “Aren’t we both gay?” You weren’t actually asking about religious services. This was probably when there was fewer people who were comfortable with being gay AND with being churchgoers…
Don’t like the thought of tasting my own cum … don’t think it’s gay. I don’t understand why women think it’s cool to taste their juice on my lips. I mean, I don’t get it?
As for cramming four straight men on a chair lift. It’s not a homophobia thing, its a personal space thing. Americans are big on giving each other personal space. I also know, that as a 6’5” male, I have a large ass, it’s in shape, but it is proportionately large. I’m not self concious of my ass, but I am concerned that it will reach into other peoples personal space.
When I go to Canada, I am amazed at how god damn small everything is! The people are small, the rooms are small, the food portions are small, the chairs are small. The only thing big about Canada, is the outdoors or the mountain you ski on! (Maybe if they would put down the damn cigarrettes?).
I have a bisexual husband who loves sucking dick, and has even nearly cum in his pants from tasting another man’s cum. But he has no interest in his own because, as Dan mentioned, by the time he comes, he’s lost his most filthy attractions and then it’s gross to him by then.
Gah! Do you know how long the chair lines at Whistler are? And I am being delayed from the powder by idiots afraid of catching gay??
Lets throw their asses in a sauna together and have them flagellate each other with willow branches. If that doesn’t turn them gay maybe they can accept riding 4 to a chair so I can get up the mountain faster, and if it does turn them gay….well, then I guess they’ll be in the sauna most of the day then anyways, and the mountain is all mine!