This question comes from a
point of real frustration. I’m a 26-year-old straight guy. Due to my
being overweight, awkward, and generally unable to attract women I’m
actually interested in, I have only been sexually intimate with
prostitutes and women of low caliber. I have never been able to sustain
an erection during intercourse. I’ve climaxed during oral sex or
handjobs. I’m not physically accustomed to getting off with anything
but my hand. Worst of all, the intense fear of impotence has caused me
to avoid sexual liaisons. When dating, I feel threatened by the
expectation of sex within the first few dates. Any solid advice?
Sick Of Beatin’
Join a gym and lose some weight. You’ll gain
some confidence and improve your health—and your
circulation—which could help in the keeping-the-dick-hard
department. (I’m not telling you that you have to transform yourself
into a muscle god to be happy or find love.) Seeing a doctor and
getting your hands on some Viagra couldn’t hurt, either. Vary your
masturbatory technique.
Stop sleeping with women unless you’re
attracted to them on some level, and recognize that holding the
women who will sleep with you in contempt is an expression of
self-hatred and knock it the fuck off. Since sex within the first few
dates makes you feel anxious, inform anyone you date that you’re not up
for having sex within the first few dates. And the next time you find
yourself in bed with someone or sense that things are headed there,
SOB, tell her that you’re really only interested in oral and mutual
masturbation—at least at first—and that you generally take
a long time to come. Then you don’t have to stress out about failing to
meet her expectations, because she won’t be expecting anything other
than what you’re capable of delivering.
Finally, there are sex workers out there who
will not only get you off in exchange for your money, SOB, but will
work with you on improving your skills and building up your confidence.
You may have slept with one already without realizing it because you so
resented having to pay for it that you dismissed her as a cheap whore
to protect your ego. Dumb mistake.
I’m a heterosexual male. I’ve
never been in a long-term relationship, I’ve never been in a short-term
relationship, I’ve never been in a relationship. Four make-out sessions
in my youth and paid sex with cheap street prostitutes is all the
physical intimacy I’ve ever known. And sometime before the end of this
year, I’ll be turning 45.
I have no explanation for how I fucked up
something this important this badly for this long, but here are my best
clues: (1) Deep down, I don’t think I’ve ever really believed women
could possibly find me attractive. (2) For me, being rejected and/or
humiliated after approaching someone is an almost paralyzing fear. (3)
My professional/career/financial situation is only slightly better than
my romantic/sexual situation: I’m always either barely getting by or in
some crisis where staying non-homeless is my only priority.
I want to understand what the fuck is wrong
with me and why I’m staring at a lifetime of totally unfulfilled
romantic and sexual hopes and dreams. The last thing I need right now
is some Pollyanna bullshit. I want brutal honesty.
A Lifelong Onanist Needs Explanations
Some people are alone all their lives
because they’re too damaged or too terrified or too terrifying, ALONE,
and some people are alone all their lives because they are simply, as
the cliché goes, unlucky in love. It sounds like you suffer from
social and sexual anxieties—damaged and terrified—and could benefit from seeing a shrink. You say you’re
barely getting by, ALONE, but if you’re spending money on cigarettes or
booze or pot or all three, well, you might want to prioritize your
mental health over those nonessentials.
Now here’s the usual line of Pollyanna crap
that we advice professionals are supposed to squart out for people like
you: There’s someone out there for everyone, kiddo, hang in there! But
that’s a lie, ALONE, and you know it and I know it and everyone who’s
ever said that knows it. If it were true, then… no one would be
alone all their life. Unfortunately, I can’t just tell you to
accept that you’re going to be alone all your life because we can’t
know for sure that you were one of those people—one of those
people destined to be alone all his life—until your
life ends. So here’s what you need to do between now and death:
Keep a roof over your head, put food on your table, get some help with
your emotional problems, and take your pleasures where you can. Do
things you enjoy—alone, if you must—and you might meet
someone along the way. Or not.
And finally, ALONE, if the only intimacy
available to you is paid sex with cheap street prostitutes—or, as
they prefer to be called, “conveniently located and economically priced
sex workers”—that’s better than nothing. Remember: Sex workers
are part of the solution for you, if not an entirely satisfactory
solution, so have a little gratitude and treat them with respect.
I’m a 60-year-old white male,
securely retired from a successful professional career. I own a nice
home that’s paid for. I ought to be happy, right? There’s just one
catch: I’m still a virgin.
Growing up, I suffered the outcast status to
which class brains are routinely assigned. So I fell behind socially.
Then I went to an elite, all-male university and fell even further
behind. The sexual revolution passed me by. So I retreated into my
career. I never learned how to date. I considered paying for sex, but I
decided that was the equivalent of admitting that I was a failed human
being. Now I spend my days consumed with loneliness, resentment of the
past, and a constant longing for a hint of intimacy. Longevity is a
family trait, and I expect to live into my 90s. Is there any plausible
way to salvage something from this mess?
Stop The Parade, I Want To Get On
You’ve got a big advantage over ALONE,
STPIWTGO, in that you’re financially secure. That’s something that many
women look for in men—women are sex objects, men are success
objects, blah blah blah—and you could leverage your professional
success to your personal advantage. You wouldn’t be the first man who
was paying for sex but, since he was careful to launder the money
through a relationship, wouldn’t have to admit to “paying for sex.” So,
STPIWTGO, why not sell the house, move to a retirement community where
single women outnumber the men, wear nice clothes, and drive a nice
car?
But first: See a doctor. Reading your
letter, I wondered if you don’t suffer from an undiagnosed case of
mild-to-moderate autism. There’s no cure, but a diagnosis might make
you feel like less of a failure, STPIWTGO, and it could give you a
better idea of the obstacles you need to overcome to make a personal
and romantic connection with a woman between now and death. And I know
you’re opposed to “paying for it”—no conveniently located and
economically priced sex workers for you—but you also might want
to consider seeing a shrink who can refer you to a sexual surrogate.
Then your insurer will pay for it, STPIWTGO, not you.
As a 34 y/o single male who has spent most of my adult life in a similar situation, my take on ALONE’s dilemma is that A) lack of sexual success is a damning social stigma that will lower your standing in other people’s eyes, particularly women, and therefore make it even harder to find suitable partners. B) Going to therapy – much less admitting it – is a flat-out dealbreaker to many women.
This makes it conundrum of sorts whereby acknowledging the problem might actually make it worse.
I’m wondering if anyone else see it this way, or if I’m being just a tad too neurotic. My own experience leads me to believe that this true.
Chaya760,
My condolences on the loss of your mother. I’m so very sorry for the heavy weight that sits on your shoulders. It makes sense why you feel at the end of your rope. Loosing a parent, being a caretaker, battling depression its huge, yet you have found the strength to keep fighting. Despite all you face you are stronger than you realize. We are so blessed to have you here on SLOG.
I could not sleep last night. My mind turned to you and a man who shared similar feelings of being alone on Dan’s SLOG post about an ex-gay author. I prayed for you both, your lying heavy on my heart. You matter, please don’t forget it.
Take care,
k
PS Have you considered grief counseling?
AlohaBobby,
As a woman who needed counseling herself, I have nothing but admiration for a man who is strong enough to seek help. It definitely wouldn’t be a deal breaker, it would be a plus in your favor.
I think that all people need to remember that they can change and start enjoying things more. Once you do, you have no idea what fun things may fall into your life.
Just recently, I started dating a shy guy that I had fallen out of touch with. We fell out of touch because I thought he wasn’t interested. So, here we are 2 years later… and he’s a lot less shy, I can tell you that XD. He said that he decided to start enjoying things more. And I’m so glad he did. I couldn’t ask for a better guy to be with.
call daniel lanois… this is a raid.
friday night fishfry.
I completely disagree with a lot of the comments on here.
I always dated nerdy boys, from the bottom of the candy jar, not only because I found them to be the most attractive, but also because they weren’t hit on a lot, and it was easier to date them. I also think that society’s expectations for looks are entirely unfair, and obviously based on some sort of plastic sexuality. Looks actually have very little to do with real sexuality. And you will find this once you get out there and experiment. Some so-so looking woman (according to your high standards at least and society’s horrible standard of blond barbies) could totally blow your mind.
And I married one of the un-loved types (who was super attractive, and adorable) but who had never had a real relationship. He’s the best thing that has ever happened to me. But he felt so isolated and unloved which affected his ability to trust.
Being inexperienced can cause a feeling of deep separation and anxiety. I also think you need to concentrate on building up experience, getting out in the world with friends and being very open.
Girls who like “nerdy guys” don’t really exist in the real world. They tend to be in “the scene” so if you’re over 25 or you don’t have a very, very specific social circle you have to either develop a new personality and shrug off your past, use call girls or kill yourself if intimate physical contact is that important to you. Or get a lobotomy. Or take antidepressants and eliminate your libido, though those don’t really make the desire for emotional intimacy go away, unfortunately, nor do they make the idea of romantic relationships less appealing. Anyway, those are the options and those are just the plain facts. Also, even girls who dig nerdy guys don’t like creepy guys so thinking these despairing thoughts automatically makes you undateable. It doesn’t matter what you look like. It doesn’t matter what they look like. Once you get to this point you’re done. Game over.
That was awesome, Dan.
@148 I am so happy for you… can u throw another round of love making for my sake thanks.
@152 many deep heartfelt thanks KIm and i deeply appreciate your concern that few written words on this board cannot convey. I feel guilty about your loosing sleep, you are the first person who has lost sleep over me , though i must say that is the 3rd toughest period of my life, the first when i came out to my parents at 17 to be told that homosexuality is an abomination and an abnormality , and this is the last one. i did not kill my self at 17 because i wanted to give life and myself a second chance and i might this time but… life did not turn as i expected and probably will not allow to proceed to my plan. I wish you a nice week end .
PS I am Greek( and living in Greece) so grief counselling is not readily available but thanks for the tip
Me again. Some thoughts on the comments. I’m middle aged and have been around the track a few times. It seems that by the late 30s, a lot of people have wised up and become less looks focused, but you have to have something to offer instead – charm, warmth, confidence, brains, kindness, self-awareness. Some of the most attractive over-40 guys I know are pretty plain physically, but by this point, it’s what they’ve done with themselves that attracts me. So, if you feel worthless, work on that. Become someone who thinks of the other person, not just obsessive worry about oneself and others’ opinions. Honestly, none of these guys seems like he couldn’t join the human party if he just felt okay about himself and took his light out from under the bushel. Sex and love come along with that, not before.
Get over yourselves and find something you are passionate about (besides self pity). That’s what I did and I never looked back.
I’m a girl and I agree with a lot of what UKGuy says.
Also though, these comments reek of guys who seem to think only guys have these sorts of problems.
I’m a girl who is 23, probably in the top 10% for intelligence and top 30% for looks. I have some fairly good friends, though some people have told me I come across as shy, and I know some other people (though not the majority I hope) find me to be an asshole.
I know a lot about sex (at least academically) and try to project confidence.
I’m also, umm, a virgin.
I’ve had a few botched single nights of experimentation with different guys. As I’ve gotten older I’ve realized that a good portion of the problem lies in my own head -I think I’m too picky, but also I tend to have trouble viewing people I know well in a sexual light. I also don’t want to admit to anyone I’m interested in that I’m a virgin, so I’m sure some of the past guys just thought I was bad in bed.
I spend a lot of time being depressed about the whole thing.
But I do realize there are far more important things in life.
I think the biggest thing I need to work on though, is putting myself out there more. I’ve realized meeting people is an odds thing -most people you meet aren’t going to want to be friends are bone you or whatever, but the more people you meet the more people you’ll meet who want to do those things.
If some people don’t like you it doesn’t mean you’re a failure. It means that you’re just not one of those people who put a lot of energy into being totally unoffensive to everyone -I’m not even sure if they’re the majority.
This is one of the best SL columns I can remember, and I thought the compassionate but “brutally” honest advice was right on.
@ chaya760,
You say you’re in Greece? Perhaps it is your location that’s getting you down. Hold off on your thoughts of killing yourself. You are depressed and it’s making your situation seem far hopeless than it probably is. Wait till the economy improves & then find a job somewhere else and start over. Moving half way across the country away from narrow-minded bigots did a world of good for me. I, like a young version of STPIWTGO, didn’t really enjoy dating, socializing, life, anything till I left the ass-backward small town I grew up in. In the city I found people who’s company I enjoyed and who’s intellect and conversation interested me. I did get treatment for depression and anxiety, but a new city gave me a chance to start over with new people who hadn’t pigeonholed me into the role of outcast and loser.
p.s. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with paying for sex. If you’re trying to learn a new ‘skill’, you need a good teacher and practice, practice, practice. You wouldn’t be embarrassed if this were learning to play the piano or learning to dance, why would hiring a sex pro be embarrassing? If they’ve been working very long, they’ve heard it all.
p.p.s. If Donald Trump (or any straight man) isn’t embarrassed by having a trophy spouse on their arm, why would a gay man be embarrassed?
chaya760, have you thought of moving to Melbourne, Australia? It is a wonderful city with a large Greek population and is very gay friendly. You would love it here and would love the gay greek scene found here.
I can’t help but wonder if this is a male problem? I’m a 21 year old girl and am really over male friends saying, “You’re hot, intelligent, funny, caring, why are you single?”. Now what I usually say is, “Because I’m over dating/sleeping with douchebags, and am now waiting for someone that even MUTUAL friends don’t warn me against”. The problem is that so many guys I know can’t grasp this concept. Happy being single? No way, that just cannot be! So now it’s usually, “George Clooney isn’t returning my calls” to avoid the emo crying or lesbian accusations from them.
The thing is nearly every single girl I know is very happy being single and fulfill their needs via NSA sex or vibrators (on that topic, LELO has changed my life!). Guys on the other hand are drunkenly crying over the lack of intimacy in their lives and how badly they want a girlfriend.
What’s changed in society? I thought the patriarchal, heteronormative media has told us its women who “need” a man in their life?
It seems to me that virginity/celibacy is posing two interconnected problems for the LW’s: feeling deprived and feeling inferior.
1. Feeling deprived: in the US, we’re living a cultural moment in which we’re told constantly, in all kinds of subtle and not-so-subtle ways, that everyone should not only be having lots of sex, but also should be having lots of GREAT sex – and if you’re not, you’re missing out on a mind-blowing pleasure that everyone but you is enjoying several times/week.
2. Feeling inferior: the belief that not having found someone eager to make the beast with two backs with you in every room of the house means you’re the most pathetic kind of loser, no matter what your life is otherwise like – because, after all, nothing in life is more important than having those daily sexual marathons everyone else but you is enjoying (see #1).
The problem, of course, is that neither of these beliefs really holds water. As far as #1 goes, many people are not having regular marathon bouts of mind-blowing sex, even – or maybe especially – the people in relationships which have lasted longer than three months. If everyone but the LW’s was getting that kind of sex, Dan would be out of a job! The world is full of sexually dissatisfied people, and finding someone willing to have sex with you is no guarantee it will be good sex or even decent sex; finding a long-term relationship is certainly no guarantee you’ll always have hot sex available on demand.
And as far as #2 goes, letting other people’s willingness to take off their clothes for you determine how much YOU like yourself is a stunningly bad idea – you’ll never know anything resembling inner peace until you’re no longer waiting for other people to throw you a few crumbs of approval. Would we all like to be stunningly attractive? Sure, why not? But most of us, simply by the laws of averages, are not going to be in that elite group, and there’s no point to spending all our time wishing we were.
At the risk of moving into cliche territory, life is like a card game: you have to play the cards you’re dealt instead of sitting around and feeling sorry for yourself because you didn’t get the cards you wanted. Not everyone’s hot – just like not everyone’s tall, not everyone’s a genius, not everyone has 20/20 vision, not everyone has a good singing voice, etc. Maximize the assets you have, and don’t sit brooding about the ones you didn’t get.
“The Four Agreements” and “The Mastery of Love” by Don Miguel Ruiz are books that can help anyone learn to love themselves if they’re open enough to it. Especially in terms of letting go of the ego and emotional poison.
To every guy, next time you go to a bar, assign a number to every women in terms of attractiveness in the bar. Hit on the lower 2/3rds of the women on your list and you’ll increase your chance of connecting with someone.
Every bar I go to I see guys hitting on (or staring at) the same 3-5 hottest women in the room all night. There are plenty of acceptably pretty girls in the room who are being ignored. Pick one of them and say HI.
AND get some hobbies that get you interacting with other people. Like others have mentioned partner dancing is the best way to meet lots of women. Just push through the uncomfortable first few months of learning and it’ll get easier.
@99 & 131: Okay, nickyyyy, you don’t need to go postal. I was under the impression that you were a guy in his tewnties ragging on his mom because she was overweight but sought out only bronze Apollos.
Durrrrr right back.
one simple fact contains the answer to all cases examined in this week’s Savage Love.
anywhere in the world a woman can get money for sex.
she doesn’t have to be attractive (but if she is she can probably get more $$$), clever or charming.
nowhere in the world can a man get money for sex (unless he is prepared to get it from another man..).
this state of affairs would easily be explained if humans were like cuttlefish.
male cuttlefish outnumber females about 10 to 1, so females can be as picky as they want and always get some.
(cuttlefish also mate once in a lifetime…)
for us: 50% males, 50% females (roughly).
using the fact stated above and the principle of supply and demand, find the answer to this week’s problems.
@44: GO, McSarah, GO!!!
I could NOT have said it better, myself! Right on the mark!!
@170: And please excuse the typo. It is meant to read “twenties”.
And anyway, nickyyyy–who besides you cares if your Mom weighs 250 lbs. and has the hots for Fabio? I’ll bet that among 300 million Americans she’s not alone.
@51: I’m glad I’m not in the same room with you.
@148: So does that mean you’re a big dick?
@132: Now there’s an idea. Friendship! It works for me, too.
To: UKguy – Water is free, there are natural springs all over the world.
Water bill is payed by management at my apartment building…therefore the taxes for that water are included in the bill that they pay.
It rains all the time. this water can be gathered and filtered very easily. Also, I made a blanket statement regarding “fat bastards”. It could be they are fat, shy, supremely ugly, or just plain rude to the women they are trying to get attention from.
Whatever the case may be, the point of my comparison between water and pussy I guess needs to be clarified. Water is readily available through many methods….just as pussy is.
Sure you can pay for pussy, but that is not a step towards something better. It will only change into something worse. Before you know it you aren’t even talking to women anymore other than asking them how much, and then there is the whole entire ILLEGAL part of it, which like it or not it is illegal to buy sex.
To sick of beatin’ – Stop masturbating for awhile, stop fucking prostitutes, and stop going to bars/clubs/wherever looking for girls to fuck.
Try going to churches, libraries, voulenteer at an animal shelter…go to a gym, if you are embarrassed of your weight problem do something about it, if you don’t like people watching you work out do super early in the morning or super late at night 24 hour fitness workouts.
Basically if you are tired of being lonely, try looking for some kind of relationship of substance, instead of empty emotionless fucking.
Or you can keep gambling with your cock by utilizing prostitutes. Personally my lil soldier is more important than that to me, the few one-night stands i’ve had were less satisfying than a good 45 minute round of attackin’ my monkey to some high quality porn.
Of course I am a Cancerian, so maybe it’s just that is the reason why I need it to be an emotional and physical attraction to allow myself to really lose inhibition.
This could be why you are facing problems such as not being able to hold your load during oral sex or a handjob. Next time you masturbate, don’t do it to get off. do it to see how long you can go before you do. And then when you do, don’t stop….keep masturbating. Use your imagination. Use visual stimuli. Teach your brain to control your cock, not the other way around….I know it sounds stupid….but this is the reason why I’m now able to choose when I orgasm.
I don’t know….maybe it’ll help, maybe it won’t….I’m just throwing out what I think to be good advice.
Great advice to ALONE (great advice all around, actually). I’m alone, always have been.Probably because it never occurred to me that someone would find me attractive. Depressed & terrified fits to a ‘T’. Had a bit of therapy to sort myself out. But a previous lifetime of abuse & isolation don’t go away over night. Got a few good friends. A decent job. Travel a bit. Do stuff on my own all the time. Some of us may very well end up alone but that doesn’t mean we should go down without a fight.
Hello Folks,
Every week I wait for Dan’s column and this week’s is especially interesting. I feel like I could write forever about my own limited experience with women & relationships.
As I read other people’s comments I laugh and learn from the wisdom. Over the years Dan has given advice that just sticks. Solid. I remember the one about a guy in Alaska who would come out of the blue and have awesome sex w. a lower 48 girl in her state. Then he would leave for Alaska. The girl wrote Dan and he told her that the guy was DG (Damaged Goods) and that she should move on.
For the men who wrote Dan please read his archives, all of these comments, and seek the help of a group and therapist. You need to figure yourself out and understand what it means to be in a relationship. You must love yourself before you love anyone. You should have a routine of things that you enjoy before she comes along. You must ask yourself if you are willing to commit your time, space, and resources to a relationship w. woman.
(There’s a meanie comment here about a woman giving you an earfull all the time. It’s funny but true, so be ready for conversation and compromise beyond anything you’ve dealt w. in other circles. You can be silent w. a roomie or co-worker, but relationships are full of prattle.)
Now after three brief relationships, I know what plan I “need to work” for myself. I am not exactly like the dude in Alaska (though I am good in bed), but I know that I need a life routine and that vanilla sex can bore the hell out of me.
Oh yeah, make sure you find your kink so that you can explore it with your mate. Also, NEVER get rid of your porn. Again, NEVER get rid of your porn. If you enjoy your porn now and it gets you off, don’t expect monogamous sex to do it all for you, forever. Don’t be a fool. I am still recovering from three purges.
Best,
Klitboy
@STPIWTGO
Now… maybe back in your day this wasn’t as true (seeing as 60 years ago all women were being trained to do was to “be good housewives”) but at least now a days there are plenty of girls who are in the exact same situation as yourself. I’m one of them (we’re generally referred to as “nerd girls”). I was made fun of in school for being smart, and like you, this has given me a shitload of social anxiety. However, the difference between us is: I’ve figured out that all the other people who I will like are somewhat like me, generally kind of shy and unwilling to make the first move in relationships and friendships.
Look, as a 60 year old, you’re lucky enough to be able to date a wide range of people- over 40 is probably fine. However, you should look for someone that similar to you, join a book club, do some charity work, we’re out there… but most of us are just like you, and too shy to sit at a bar and order you drinks. Take a chance and try to strike up intelligent conversation with one of the quiet women around you. There are people in the world like you… but the problem is that they’re like you in more than just intelligence.
@ chaya760
You are a 50 year old successful and reasonably attractive guy in Greece? Assuming you aren’t in a village, you should find a lot of guys that are into you… I am a 30 year old guy living in Turkey, and VERY often find that the hot guys I’m into prefer a guy your age because he has his life together and can be more trusted to focus on a relationship. I think you should put yourself out there more… I know it may be scary, but really, isn’t that better than the alternative?
The this coming weekend is a big Istanbul bear event. If you live in Thess, it’s just an overnight train ride away. Even if bears aren’t your type, I am sure you would find younger guys that would be into you there. If nothing else, it might be fun and interesting to connect with guys from the region. It’s being jointly hosted by Greek, Italian, Spanish, and Turkish bear organizations.
Yes – it sounds crazy and silly – but not as crazy as offing oneself. Worst case scenario, you get to spend some time in Istanbul at parties with really friendly guys. I will even take you out to for a drink if you like. 🙂 From me you can expect fair brute-ish honesty of the kind that Dan is known for.
And really take Kim’s words to heart. What kind-hearted person she is. But put it in the perspective that she is one of many people whom you matter to. Best wishes, man.
Thanks for mentioning “mild-to-moderate autism” as a possibility for the gentleman who was clueless as to why he’d never had sex at 60. Sometimes it’s exhausting for us Aspies to try to learn how to relate on a “natural” or “normal” level and some of us never learn how, or ever even understand that we have Asperger’s Syndrome or autism of any stripe on the wide spectrum.
I’m a woman who got diagnosed at 50 and was absolutely stunned at both the diagnosis and that it explained everything, EVERYTHING in my entire freakin’ life.
Aspies also don’t necessarily fit into stereotypical gender behavior patterns, further muddying their confusion in sexual choices. I had to learn to thumb my nose at the rigid straight folks frightened at my lesbianism and the dykes who call me a fence-sitting chickenshit. I now glory in my differences and ambi-sexuality, thrilled to be a “byke,” as one of your readers called herself, but it took decades to make peace with it all before I knew about Asperger’s.
Thanks for recommending that fellow head to therapy. Please let people know about the resources of Tony Attwood’s “The Complete Guide To Asperger’s Syndrome,” “Aspergers In Love” by Maxine Aston, Isabelle Henault’s “Asperger’s Syndrome and Sexuality,” and the YouTube video by the phenomenal (and self-admittedly asexual) Dr. Temple Grandin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wt1IY3ff…
You do a helluva job, Dan.
#68 has it right. I didn’t read all the comments, but that one got me to add a comment in agreement. In my book trying to be someone people like better IS a key component to a happier life.
I’m a 60 year old widow who took way too many years to realize she was narcissistic, arrogant, selfish and petty – and too obtuse to absorb the not so subtle hints about this. My poor, dead husband who should have told me more bluntly and didn’t. Luckly I got a clue while taking care of him as he slowly died.
Lonely people: take Dan’s and #68’s advice. Think about behavior towards you that you like and mirror it. Force yourself to learn thoughtful, cheerful, pleasant ways. You don’t have to become Pollyanna, or a carpet or little Miss Sunshine, and I never will be the most popular person on the block. But to be liked, you have to like. It’s just the way things are.
And also, as many commenters are saying: YES to getting involved in something. The world is so full of a myriad of things, we all should be happy as kings. The choices in this country as to things to do and the freedom to do them is endless.
I do not have a relationship, but I do have good friends and, unlike my previous self, I’m working hard to hold onto them.
Be kind, be involved. You won’t regret it.
I always wonder why Dan never has advice for sad, lonely *female* virgins. Any advice for us, commenters?
@MegaLindyHopper: look at sex from an evolutionary standpoint. As such, women are the selectors in society. Just grab your ovaries and go for what you _want_. Many (most?) men won’t turn down an offer for sex – everyone has 20 minutes ;). You can argue that there are ‘standards’ and other bullshit working against you, but fuck it – you will succeed because you can get what you want, while a man must work within the confines of his own fucked up social system. select for your preference, not society’s – aim for a reasonable catch by YOUR preference. If the guy says no, don’t be discouraged. by turning down sex the asshole will not reproduce and genes will never be passed. the world will most likely be a better place without his asshole progeny running around.
do this as often as possible, probabilities approach 1 as time goes on – you’ll fuck a guy sooner than you think, but you must be social, which takes time. go to cafes and poach boys if you have to. bring friends – get creative. all these things will build confidence. if you are shy about talking to men you find attractive, get over yourself, loser. you will quickly learn what is clever and what is lame.
Dan: Great job, nice column, I also would like to hear a view from a lonely or ostracized woman like the men in this column.
#44: I too am tired of hearing about men who “settled” for a relationship that seemed to fit THEIR needs at 20 and then found out over the lifetime that they have a partner who isn’t a partner – nor a stepford spouse. Psychologists and psychiatrists can be helpful, especially with marital therapy, but significant personal therapy is needed to reconcile a “settled” man’s view – resulting in divorce or in a changed relationship slightly more partner driven. THESE F**KED UP men with F**KED partners DO NOT give men a bad name…..the combination is well known, it reflects the failures of our generation and of those before us. You paint stereotypes with too broad a brush.
I am in a relationship with an only child. I am frequently at fault much to my amazement, and frequently needed – but not for sex. My libido is higher than hers, so I feel infrequently satisfied even when she is generous – but I do have a woman I respect as a partner.
As long as she maintains a measure of sanity, and is generous in spite of her libido, I won’t complain. Tuition, second car, etc….well, she is professional too and she can help with those expenses.
If SHE chooses to walk in the next 30 years, then I’ll settle for a trophy wife (my family lives into their 90’s and has fathered children that look like their dad into their 80’s).
I am not physically abused, I just haven’t a full time partner. Ego-centric and petty, she doesn’t see how she could be at fault for any unilateral decision making regarding partner choices, but should I make a decision unilaterally (even if fully discussed prior to the event), I suffer for 4 – 6 months while she becomes comfortable with the decision. With each subsequent decision, the previous decision is thrown back at me. Fair? No. But who cares….this is her drama, she is underneath her own issues, a good woman, a great bed partner, and a trustworthy spouse.
Although she does give the term “Shrew” a run for the money. Especially when she is unhappy. Or when something involves HER finances and earnings.
So #44, you may be on to something with your stereotype – or you may just have repeated a false portrayal of a complex issue and foolishly blamed one gender as “at fault”. While I doubt you are onto anything other than your own issues with men (which you haven’t finished working on), I know that I am up on a soapbox professing I know and understand truth….
I neither know the truth or understand it in relationships, which is why I read Savage Love.
Don’t jump to conclusions, look at other’s situations and reflect on your own rather than espouse blatant stereotypes.
Peace!
chaya760 @ 159,
I hope your weekend went well, too.
Never feel bad, because I refrained from sleep to pray for you. My heart hurts for you, and I felt called to do it.
I spent my weekend whitewater rafting the Lower Deschutes River in central Oregon. I thought and prayed for you there. I also faced one of my fears, a good fear. Despite my love for rafting, I have always feared being thrown from the boat and being sucked under. So, I chose to swim a rapid. It felt like being in a gigantic washing machine. The current took me under, and it was terrifying. I felt so alive and really cold. I feel stronger for facing it, I still have my fear, but it doesn’t have such power over me anymore.
I am praying that you find peace, and that you might consider starting over some place new. Do something crazy-good, like jump in and swim your own rapid. I appreciate your comments.
Take care my SLOG friend.
k
Female virgins are assumed to be voluntarilly so. Just our tired old cultural standards beating off. After all, “any woman” can get laid, if she cares to lower her standards enough, or hang out at the bar after the beer goggles get thick, right? Women who are hetersexual face this sort of attitude. Women who live in this “liberated” decade face this attitude. As for us lesbians, well, we are kind of in the hinterland, free to be as lonely as the “guys’, sometimes for similar reasons and other times for quite different ones. My earlier sympathetic comments to 60 year old male virgin seem not to have posted. But the jist was to say that your virginity might be regarded as a gift to some very special woman who values it. And a suggestion that you take a cruise, at 60 some women are widows, and their faithful hearts still long for the warmth and companionship they had. Dancing is a great idea. Don’t lose yourself in paid sex with perfectly beautiful younger women, work on what you long for, presuming you long for a relationship versus just a sex fling. If—conversely, you want a sex fling and the education of love-making, then, nothing wrong with paying for it if it does not make you feel cheap or make the woman feel used. Would you pay a golf pro, or a computer expert? Think of it like that. But—if the thought seems wrong, then it probably is wrong for you. Try those other more ordinary methods first then, faith groups that have a dinner club, or partner dancing, or even a small “pub” type bar with people you feel comfortable with or attracted to. It is only about $5.00 to buy a woman a drink, and yet the social anxiety is very similar to the other parts of learning to express interest and attraction. Will she nessesarilly talk to you if you buy her a drink? No. Not always. But it is valuable social practice. And mostly, yes, people who you buy drinks for do chat a bit. The statistics favor you at 60. If you have a decent income, clean clothing, and some manners, you will fall into the very eligable bachelor catagory for women your own age or about 10 years to either side of it. If you are stalled out on a Barbie doll fantasy, seeking a woman of the age you were when you failed to “get laid” in college, then yeah, you may wind up spending money to get what you want. Once you decide what you want, and cease viewing virginity as a personal flaw, I think you will find it relatively easy to get what you want. It is probably somewhat flattering to a woman’s ego to be your “first”. Good luck!
@ Chaya
Alzheimer’s is a bitch. My grandmother had it for 12 years. Watched her dissolve into a pudding. Literally. Couldn’t even talk at the end. She went from knowing 5 languages fluently to regressing to her mother-tongue to mumbling incoherently. She eventually died from possibly ovarian cancer, not Alzheimer’s. Only reason we knew she had it was because she was moaning in pain. I arranged for hospice care remotely from VA. She lived in MN. My mom couldn’t do anything; she didn’t know what to do. I’ve always been the parent in that family. Pretty much since I was 15. I was 29-30 at the time. I’m 33 now.
When I went to the funeral, I got a tattoo that day. Then I was high at the ceremony because I didn’t want to feel anything. My mom also wanted pics of the body the previous day. That side of the family is one big circus.
I’m also manic-depressive, so I get the whole meds/depression/wanting to off-yourself thing. And the meds not working. Happens frequently. I’ve been manic-depressive for over 10 years. Probably since I was 19 or 20. I wasn’t diagnosed until I was 30. Life was hell. Up, down, up, down… alcoholic, drugs, can’t eat, can’t sleep… another reason I was high at the funeral.
The only reason I stay alive now when I swing downwards is because of my ‘brother’ who’s on death row. We’ve been in touch for a little over 2 and a half years. He reminds me that he fights for me. Funny. He’s the one with a shortened lifespan and he is staying alive for me. And he gets up every morning because I give him a reason.
If you don’t have a shrink, get one. I hate doctors and I got one. It took nearly 3 years until I talked myself into it. Then another 2 until I got a proper diagnosis. I still have relapses. This is not something that will ever go away. But it isn’t something where I can just take my meds and everything will be okay. I need supervision. The same with major depression. It needs to be watched and regulated. Too many doctors just pump you full of drugs and let you walk out the door. That’s what my first doctor did. I didn’t even know what I was taking or what it was supposed to do.
And a lot of people are going to give you advice. You don’t have to take mine. Do what you will with it. Only a suggestion from a crazy. It’s all in my head anyway. 🙂
@ Chaya
Alzheimer’s is a bitch. My grandmother had it for 12 years. Watched her dissolve into a pudding. Literally. Couldn’t even talk at the end. She went from knowing 5 languages fluently to regressing to her mother-tongue to mumbling incoherently. She eventually died from possibly ovarian cancer, not Alzheimer’s. Only reason we knew she had it was because she was moaning in pain. I arranged for hospice care remotely from VA. She lived in MN. My mom couldn’t do anything; she didn’t know what to do. I’ve always been the parent in that family. Pretty much since I was 15. I was 29-30 at the time. I’m 33 now.
When I went to the funeral, I got a tattoo that day. Then I was high at the ceremony because I didn’t want to feel anything. My mom also wanted pics of the body the previous day. That side of the family is one big circus.
I’m also manic-depressive, so I get the whole meds/depression/wanting to off-yourself thing. And the meds not working. Happens frequently. I’ve been manic-depressive for over 10 years. Probably since I was 19 or 20. I wasn’t diagnosed until I was 30. Life was hell. Up, down, up, down… alcoholic, drugs, can’t eat, can’t sleep… another reason I was high at the funeral.
The only reason I stay alive now when I swing downwards is because of my ‘brother’ who’s on death row. We’ve been in touch for a little over 2 and a half years. He reminds me that he fights for me. Funny. He’s the one with a shortened lifespan and he is staying alive for me. And he gets up every morning because I give him a reason.
If you don’t have a shrink, get one. I hate doctors and I got one. It took nearly 3 years until I talked myself into it. Then another 2 until I got a proper diagnosis. I still have relapses. This is not something that will ever go away. But it isn’t something where I can just take my meds and everything will be okay. I need supervision. The same with major depression. It needs to be watched and regulated. Too many doctors just pump you full of drugs and let you walk out the door. That’s what my first doctor did. I didn’t even know what I was taking or what it was supposed to do.
And a lot of people are going to give you advice. You don’t have to take mine. Do what you will with it. Only a suggestion from a crazy. It’s all in my head anyway. 🙂
Dear Everyone, we all owe Dan a big thanks, not just for his advice, but for publishing all of the real sides to sex and how it affects relationships. Even the act of writing such letters has helped the authors of such letters, even the ones that go unanswered. I love the isolation theme of this week because it is so real to anyone human.
Dear SOB, ALONE, STPIWTGO, you are not alone. I can say the best advice is what you’ve started, be aware of your feelings and isolation, get professional counseling help and get your body in shape at a GYM or outdoors. And spill your guts to people you can trust in the same way you spilled your guts to Dan.
>Also, in my experience, relationships are overrated.
>Enuf said.
>Posted by The Wet One on July 29, 2009 at 6:30 PM | Report
By your own admission, you have almost no experience by which to judge. One girlfriend was a “golddigger” (which if true, doesn’t qualify as a real relationship) and the other was a “psycho”.
I have some other advice for straight men who are chronically lonely:
1- Stop trying to date models and strippers. If you are a “3” you should be looking for other 3’s.
2- If you still live with your mommy, no one will want you. Straighten out the rest of your life, get some independence and move out first.
3- Stop being so obsessed with male-dominated hobbies. If you spend all your free time going to Sci-Fi conventions, then of course all the women you meet will already have boyfriends. DUH!
4- Stop being so derisive of the women who have showed you some interest in the past.
5- Ask yourself – why would anyone want me? What do I have to bring to the table? If you can’t answer that question, then you need to focus on fixing what’s wrong with you before you worry about dating.
6- If you follow 1-5 already and you really are a good guy, well then ask a friend to help you brush up on your social skills.
Someone asked…how do you “be more confident” if you’re not – I think #5 is the key — either something is wrong with you that needs fixing or your lack of confidence is misplaced and needs to be set aside. So either you fix what’s wrong or you decide you don’t need fixing. Either one should lead to an increase in confidence.
ThoughtfulGoddess posted something so good, it deserves repeating:
“I’m surprised that in all these comments, no one, not even Dan, has suggested a simple solution: these guys need to focus on making friends. Platonic friends. Female friends, male friends, any kind of friends. It sounds like all three of these guys are socially isolated.
Being able to make new friends is the best way to meet new people who might become more than friends, or might introduce you to someone who can be more than a friend.
Being able to maintain platonic friendships will help you develop emotional intimacy.
Having close platonic friendships with women will teach you to respect women, to understand women, to not fear women, and to understand that women are NOT just potential sex partners.
Not that it’s necessarily easy to make new friends. But that’s where you should start.”
Men & women cannot be friends. Why would a straight male want a female friend anyway?
Second verse, same as the first: the solution to all of this is a plane ride to Bangkok or Manila.
Someone else posted this but bears repeating. Go on a vacation to Thailand for 2 weeks. There are a multitude of western men who have become regular visitors, or even moved their permanently, and the number one reason is the availability of woman – tons upon tons of conveniently located sex workers – and also tons of just nice girls who for some reason, (mainly financial), are willing to spend time and even become a gf. Many of these western men are the lower dregs of society (but some doing very well), and have had life changing experiences due to the vastly different way that the genders interact and behave and attitudes – whether your preference is gay, straight or transgendered.
Dan, I wish this guy had read your column:
Neighbors described 48-year-old George Sodini, who worked in a law firm’s finance department, as anti-social, and the Web page in his name showcased a resume setting forth his credentials as an unhappy loner. It listed his date of death — Aug. 4, 2009 — and his status of “Never married.”
He complained of not having a girlfriend since 1984, not having a date since May 2008 and not having sex for 19 years.
“Women just don’t like me. There are 30 million desirable women in the US (my estimate) and I cannot find one,” he wrote. The page ended with the words “Death Lives!”
On Tuesday night, the gunman walked into his gym wearing workout gear and a headband, entered a “Latin impact” dance aerobics class and placed a duffel bag on the ground. He rooted around in the bag for a moment, turned off the lights, took out at least two guns and started shooting.
To all and sundry:
* If you’re married and you speak of your partner with disdain and contempt, get unmarried as quickly as possible because s/he deserves better than that.
* If you don’t like yourself, it is irrational to expect others to like you
* guys, women who are worth your time have instincts, and we listen to them – if you’re being “ignored” by women, ask a woman why – it’ll probably be something about “vibes” and “uncomfortable”. Listen to what they have to say, ask questions, and put the information to use – if you are told that action A is unnerving, discontinue taking action A. They say that the male human is the more logical, but I frequently find that to be untrue.
* talk to “women” as if they were “human” – just like you’d talk to one of your buddies (sans flatulence/boob jokes). Pretend we’re just guys at a costume party, if that helps.
I’ve had long and short term relationships, but have not had sex for **years**.
Re: hiring a sexual surrogate or sex worker.
Ignorance (legal/moral/potential STD’s) stops me. Likely though, in theory, these are non issues under the right circumstances. Bottom line: I need to re-establish sexual confidence, learn more about it, and wrong or right, learn more about NSA sex.
Any pointers on what to look for in a competent sexual surrogate or pro? I need someone to let me make “mistakes” (in a good way ), help me get my feet wet again, and show me it’s OK to “just have sex”.
Years ago, circumstances pushed me to sever almost all connections with people. I’ve made positive progress (with pro help) but remain somewhat un-connected. Am finding middle ground, but need to keep at it. I feel sexual healing is part of my recovery.
FWIW, a few things I’ve learned and continue to learn about:
– Get over the fear. Learn to trust. Step at a time. Do it in a healthy way. (as for sexual function maybe pro/surrogate plays a role here?)
– Learn to read people/situations for what/who they are. Remain aware. Base your choices on awareness, logic and instinct.
Lack Of Trust, Abundant Fear, Abating
http://www.hulu.com/watch/2331/saturday-…
U.S. viewers only. Thanks though.