My husband was 28 when we met and a virgin. When we started having sex, he opened up about being “different.” He wanted to wear panties and wanted me to make fun of his tiny penis. Didn’t love the stuff, but whatever. Now it’s a thousand times worse. He goes to Victoria’s Secret and tells the salesgirls he is being punished by his wife for wearing her panties and that I am “forcing him” to go buy some of his own. He told me he could see our neighbor undressing, so he tried to contact her to see if she wanted to humiliate him while he was dressed as a woman. And he recently “confessed” to a female coworker that he had a deep, dark secret he wanted to tell her. I confronted him, and he said he was going to tell her about me “forcing him” to wear panties and ask if she wanted to see his tiny penis!
He sees nothing wrong with this behavior. I feel like he is a fucking asshole and a pervert who is violating me, our marriage, and other women. I have children with this dude! What the hell do I do?!?
My Husband Is Out
Here’s what the hell you do, MHIO: You make a credible threat to divorce your husband—serve him with actual divorce papers—then you set conditions for suspending divorce proceedings. No more trips to Victoria’s Secret, no more stalking the neighbors, no more inappropriate confessions to coworkers. And he begins seeing a sex-positive therapist immediately.
The shit he’s into—humiliation, “forced” feminization, etc.—can be enjoyed with consenting partners, i.e., women who are either into it or willing to fake it for a reasonable fee. He has no right to drag his coworkers, neighbors, salesgirls, and other innocent bystanders into these extreme humiliation scenarios. And a good, sex-positive therapist—someone who won’t be shocked by your husband’s kinks—may be able to help your husband see that he isn’t being humiliated by these women. He’s humiliating these women—and without their consent.
And that’s not okay.
Your husband is out of control—I’m sure I don’t have to tell you that—and sooner or later he’s going to get his asshole ass arrested. Stalking and sexually harassing women are actual crimes—crimes your loving husband has been so considerate as to implicate you in, crimes that could have a hugely negative impact on the lives of your children. So threaten to divorce him, MHIO, and if that doesn’t inspire him to get help and get a grip, make good on that threat.
My girlfriend of six months found it “awkward” when I used lubricant from a half-full bottle. A half-full bottle “hinted at past relationships.” To me, this was no more awkward than our using condoms from a half-full box—which did not bother her. But she sees condoms as individually wrapped, single-use items, unlike a bottle of lubricant. Was I in the wrong for failing to purchase a new bottle of lube?
Lubrication Etiquette, S’il Vous Plaît
I’m tempted to break into your apartment, LESVP, spike your lube with Frank’s RedHot sauce and open a live feed of the oil pouring into the Gulf of Mexico on both your laptops, because you two need something real to worry about. But as I don’t know where you live: Personal lubricants are expensive. If the girlfriend believes a fresh bottle should be cracked open each and every time she gets with a new partner, then she should carry a case in the trunk of her car. And as a general note: Lube also comes in small, single-ass-serving packets—just like ketchup and mustard and condoms—and anyone worried about half-empty bottles of pubic-hair-befrazzled lube is free to invest in a box.
I have a dilemma: My ex wants me to replace his mattress because I ejaculated on it. Apparently, there was an “unbearable” smell that came about recently due to the heat and humidity where he now lives.
I am not sure that this “stench” is entirely or at all mine. My ex has a cat that peed on items of furniture in the past, for starters, and no other lovers have ever complained about any smell. I also warned my ex that I, a female, was capable of ejaculation. There was an opportunity to grab a towel, but my ex did not stop. In fact, my ex caused me to ejaculate countless times. This ex now lives in a different city on the other side of the country, but we have friends in common.
Should I pay for the replacement mattress? I might have been open to paying half, but the last time we talked, my ex was so negative that I don’t feel any obligation at all.
Should I Soak It Up
I don’t want you to pay for your ex’s new mattress—and I’ll bet your ex doesn’t want you to pay for his new mattress, either.
What’s really going on here, SISIU, is this: Your ex’s out-of-the-blue request for mattress reparations is an attempt on his part, conscious or not, to sever communications with you. He’s picking a fight, one he knows he’s likely to lose (because this is sopping-wet bullshit), so that he’ll have an excuse to stop speaking to you and an excuse to slag you off to your mutual friends.
And even if your ranky, stanky, janky lady spunk ruined your ex’s old mattress, SISIU, you would still not be obligated to replace it. When an adult invites another adult into his bed, he is or should be aware that sexual activity frequently leads to stained sheets and pillowcases, soaked and/or stained mattresses, and, every once in a great while/time, completely and thoroughly destroyed bed frames. A person who is unwilling to eat those losses should fuck on the floor, fuck outside, or fuck at his partner’s place.
Seeing as your ex should have been aware of the general risk sexual activity posed to his mattress, and seeing as you acquainted him with the specific risks you posed to his mattress, the responsibility and the liability are entirely his. So fuck him.
While we’re on the subject of lady ejaculators: Lots of folks wrote in with suggestions for WET, the woman in last week’s column who, like SISIU here, routinely soaked the bed when she came. While I suggested a wrestling mat and towels, numerous readers wrote in to plug the Fascinator Throe.
“It’s a large, double-sided blanket,” wrote one Savage Love reader. “It’s faux fur on one side, satin on the other, with a waterproof barrier in the middle. It comes in lots of colors and costs around $90. It goes anywhere you want to fuck, and it’s easy to clean. This thing saved my bed, and it’s sexier than a wrestling mat.”
Given a choice between a fake-fur bedspread and a genuine wrestling mat, I’d go with the mat—and the wrestler—every time. But lady ejaculators who prefer machine-washable faux fur can check out Fascinator Throes—”the moisture-proof playscape for sex”—at
www.liberator.com.
The Savage Love iPhone app is now available on the iTunes store.
@101 Of course you wouldn’t choose to play with him as a sub. But what if you were already married to him and had his children–what would you do then?
@101 Of course you wouldn’t choose to play with him as a sub. But what if you were already married to him and had his children–what would you do then?
re MHIO: Sounds like the dude needs a psych evaluation and meds. That’s not “acting out,” that’s some kind of pathological disinhibition. I doubt he can control it on his own.
Regarding lady fluids – another issue are allergy meds. You know how benadryl dries out your sinuses – same deal 🙂 You get me on a day where I have allergy meds, BCP, and not enough fluids and there is no way I can get going without a couple drops of lube.
I also vote that LESVP’s lady friend, if she is squicked out by the lube, should just make a present of a new bottle. Its a great excuse to try something new, like going to a sex shop, if nothing else!
Mareena: “LOL, I’m a domme. Of course I’m convinced I’m right! In this case I happen to be right.”
Please get help.
I think I get what Marrena is saying @19- at first I was like, wtf, but after I read more of her posts I sort of get her point. She’s not saying that what he is doing is ok- obviously, she made that clear. She’s saying that since his impulses/boundaries problems aren’t exactly going to just disappear, then part of his therapy could be encouraging him to channel his bdsm interests in an appropriate way- ie. through a pro domme or through his wife’s forceful hand.
Interesting idea, but I’m not sure if it would actually work. It seems like what he is doing has less to do with BDSM and more to do with forcing his sexuality on unsuspecting women.
As Dan rightfully pointed out, what he is doing isn’t about humiliating himself as a submissive who enjoys consensual BDSM play- It’s about humiliating the women he is approaching by sexually harassing them.
His behavior is closer to that of a sex offender than that of a submissive who enjoys bdsm. Take away the bdsm aspect from what he is doing and all you’ve got left is a guy who likes to humiliate random women in public by subjecting them to his lewd comments. His actions might be flavored with bdsm, but the mainstay of his behavior is sexually aggressive behavior.
Real BDSM involves clear boundaries that are discussed extensively between consenting adults before any actual roleplay or sexual behavior happens. There is a safe word and anyone involved in a scene has already consented to whatever they are doing before it happens.
Whatever the case may be, this guy needs serious help. And who knows, maybe Marenna’s suggestion that he channel his impulses through a pro domme, etc. might actually do the trick. If he really does want to be dominated and he enjoys being punished, then some type of reward/punishment training could go a long way. Anything to please his mistress? I’m not sure, but given the current situation it can’t hurt to try channeling his urges into safe, sane and consensual bdsm play. As long as he hasn’t escalated and crossed the line into exposing himself or making any physical contact with the women he has approached, then there is probably hope for him.
But MHIO’s husband didn’t actually do anything. Did the salesgirl come to the wife? Did he contact the neighbor? Did the co-worker come to the wife with the “dark secret?” No. All we know is what the husband told the wife. There is no corroboration at all. He “tried” to contact the neighbor. He is “going” to confess his dark secret. It’s all bullshit. He’s a wimpy mindfucker and she’s gullible.
Marrena, yes maam. You are absolutely right… Except that you aren’t. The husband has crossed a line beyond which there are serious implications. Whether or not the wife is willing to reign him in through play is irrelevent. He has some serious issues for involving uninterested parties in his fetish. Where will it end? Without some serious therapy, he will continue to blur the line betweeen approriate and inappropriate contact with strangers and eventually either harm himself, others or end up with the law involved. This is not a matter of “if you can’t beat him (pun intended) join him. His crossing that line shows that he doesn’t know what is right from wrong or that he doesn’t care. Whether his wife gets involved or not, will still only end in hardship until he gets the therapy to realize that line exists.
I’ve seen behaviour like MHIO before, and it has two sides.
His side : inappropriate behaviour, impulsiveness, somewhere on the autistic spectrum.
So far, so bad, but..
Her side : thoughtless, inconsiderate, judgemental.
I’ll bet money that as well as his behaviour, she hasn’t bothered to analyse why he’s behaving that way and never discussed sexual compatibility before marriage, let alone now.
When someone says they want to wear panties and have fun made of their small cock, it is not a ‘but whatever’ – it’s something to be discussed and understood.
Dan’s advice is pretty good, but MHIO also needs to understand that when he sees that therapist she’s also going to have to have a long hard unfavourable look at herself.
OMFG, the tenga video on the liberator website. i need some time alone, alone but very, very clothed.
In case there’s still a need for a solution to WET’s dilemma, there are a couple products I’ve seen at a fabric store in PDX that might help. One is rubberized flannel and another is P.U.L.
In regards to MHIO, it sounds like she was never into his kink but went along with it in the spirit of being GGG until it became too much for her to deal with. He does need help and she should help him get it, but I’m also seeing a woman who seems to just be done with it all. If that is the case, she should just divorce him. I don’t know squat about FemDom so I don’t know if Marrena’s suggestion would work or not but it sounds like a lot of work and MHIO doesn’t sound like she’s up for that.
@92: “a creeping creeper with extra creep sauce.” Love it! 😀
Marrena, I think you’re seeing the world through the lens of your newly-acquired FemDom glasses.
A woman whose attitude to learning about her husband’s kink is “whatever,” isn’t going to get into caning him. She wants normalcy, not more kink.
You complained about the level of judgment on this “sex site” discussion, but you’re not taking into account the attitude of the letter writer. She’s trying to make the husband stop, not trying to find new creative ways to punish him and feed his kink. It seemed clear by the way she mentioned that she has children with him, that she would leave him if there weren’t other issues. You are undoubtedly enjoying your newfound world–you’ve described yourself as a newbie dom several times–but not everyone wants to live in it, too.
Lastly, you said: “Occasionally Dan gives advice to good pedophiles, pedophiles who don’t act on their urges, on how to control their kink by having lots of roleplay with young-looking sex partners, always making sure that one has a sex partner, etc. All I’m saying is to take a similar approach with this type of kink.”
I seem to remember that Dan has suggested medication to lower libido for “good” pedophiles, not that they have lots of roleplay with young-looking partners. I believe it was a reader who offered that suggestion, against the advice of people who work with pedophiles, sex offenders, and others whose kinks involve non-consent (MHIO’s husband’s kink involves non consent). The prevalent thinking is that by encouraging substitutes that approximate the forbidden desire, it increases the desire to have the real thing. Generally chemical castration is what is recommended–which is NOT the same thing as having a man who wants to be sexually humiliated and to sexually humiliate others in the process get caned by a FemDom. That is a reward for his behavior, not a punishment. He needs neither. He needs to stop acting on the desire if it involves unwilling participants. And to do that, he needs to have the desire lessened.
I’m pretty sure it was Dan who said that about pedophiles.
There was a time when I thought FemDom was really strange and alien, certainly nothing I would ever be interested in. Now I love it. Women’s sexuality is rather fluid, I was just suggesting that she give it her consideration.
@109 🙂 I’ve said all along the husband needs lots of psychiatric help, therapy, what have you.
Maybe it’s just me, but MHIO’s letter could have been written by Kate Gosselin about Jon…LOL
WOW……..dudes wearin panties talkin about his hamster dick……new bottles of butt lube bitch we are still in a recession……oh yea and a case of stinky mattress cum……whats tha world comin to
This video is wrong in so many ways: youtube “eat da poo poo”, ugandan gay hater leatards…
I’m on board with you Marrena. I think playing to this guy’s kink is a shitty idea, but I think it’s less shitty than any alternative.
Marrena, the problem with your solution is that it keeps this guy thinking about life as a sex game, and he needs to be yanked out of his games immediately. His sex life has become unhealthy, and he’s verging into criminal behavior that could ruin his career, among other things. Since divorce would entail his wife and kids actually leaving him, that might be a bit of a wake-up call, no? The other commenters who suggest serious mental illness are probably closest to the mark, though. This kind of detachment from reality is not normal, and if it’s new behavior, there’s probably something seriously wrong. But the absolute last thing the wife should do is to try and find a kinky solution to this problem.
Whether you get him after a long term commited monogamous relationship or he’s moving forward from whoredom, I say: a new relationship, new lube, new condoms, new sheets, new pillows, new matress, new paint on the bedroom walls, new carpet, new shower curtain, new couch, new calendar, new cups, new new new new NEW, etc. When I’m getting it on with my man, I don’t want anything the previous girl(s) touched but him. Out of sight, out of mind. He’s lucky she only wants new lube. If you don’t get it you must not be very serious about her, in which case you should let her know that and if she decides to continue to have sex with you, then she should buy the lube she wants or bring a half full bottle that she’s more comfortable with. bunny5008@yahoo.com
Hey, soak it up, I do believe the guy is spoilin for a new mattress–because he thinks there’s a chance you’ll cave. Just the fact that you actually considered goin in halvsies says you’re a doormat, and he knows it… so the fucking cheapass mannerless tightwad is taking advantage of your lack or self esteem. What a d-bag he is. Tell him no, HAIL no. Then, if you’re worried he’ll tell his friends, send him this column–and send it to the friends too, so he can see you outed him first.
@85 persimmon, it’s not rape, but it *is* a form of sex crime. He’s involving you in (what is to him) a sex act without your consent. If you still worked there, I’d suggest talking to your manager and trying to get the guy banned from the store, and/or calling the police on him.
Call me ignorant, but it seems to me that if there is any sort of punishment roleplay tied to the behavior, he will keep doing it in order to keep getting punished. She needs to find a solution that makes it clear that this isn’t a game — that it needs to stop now, stop hard, and stop permanently.
Personally, since he sees nothing wrong with it, I foresee it just going off her radar, until it surfaces again with an arrest or a harassment suit. I suspect she needs to just divorce him now.
By the way, as impossible as it seems, since it shoots out of pussy, female ejaculate HAS NO SMELL. At least MINE doesn’t. I’ve been ejaculating for 20 years and it never ceases to amaze me that once it dries, it is absolutely undetectable.
I think MHIO already knows what she needs to do. Give therapy a try and have him understand that she *will* leave him if he doesn’t stop. GGG is a two-way street. He’s not respecting her boundaries or the boundaries of outsiders. Does this mean she should leash, so to speak, his sexual expression? Not necessarily, but by his actions as stated in the letter, she is being implicated when he’s talking to these other women. Context, context, context! Sex is not divorced from morality* and what he’s doing is wrong.
Some time ago, there was a call on the podcast where a young girl was involved in a similar situation with her boyfriend. She would humiliate or speak to him and a very negative way in front of her little sister who would then try to defend the guy as she didn’t understand what was going on. I think (I be wrong about this part, as I don’t remember completely) the caller wanted to know if she should explain the dynamic to her younger (and I mean young) sister. Dan’s advice was of course correct, and the caller was involving her younger sibling against her will into their sex play and he told her to knock it the fuck off. I think this is somewhat similar.
*Of course, sexual morality is not about what you put in your mouth or up your butt, it has to do with how you feel about yourself, the person you’re with, consent, etc.
Bah, it’s not unregistered!
Marenna,
This isn’t a “sex board,” it’s the comments section of a publicly-available website for a column that gives sex advice. There are almost as many people who disagree with Dan as people who agree with him here, including several sex-negative people who show up just to bitch about “the fag telling people to sin.” But that’s not why people disagree with you. They disagree because “effective” and “proper” are not always the same thing. We could end world hunger by killing everyone dying of starvation. It would be very effective, but few people would consider it proper.
There is also another reason why your advice is bad. Threatening divorce and then following through if no change occurs legally distances MHIO from her husband’s actions. Making it part of a shared sex game, however, may very well make her part of it in the eyes of a court (or at least a prosecutor). “But the sex game was to prevent the behavior,” you protest. I’m no legal expert, but something tells me that wouldn’t fly in court. I don’t think I would buy it, and it looks like most of the commenters here wouldn’t either.
Marrena,
You’re wrong, he’s wrong, but I think I may have a solution for you:
Why don’t you get all domme-gussied up and serve him his legal papers?
Then you can both get what you want.
Oh, and for shits and giggles, as a “newbie sub” myself, I find your inability to look at your own motives and projections extremely frightening, I would never play with someone with the kind of mindset you’re evincing.
The wife made it clear that being a domme is just not her piece of cake. If you can’t switch, you can’t switch, if you can’t sub, you can’t sub. This woman tried domme on, and found out she can’t do it.
Suggesting that to her is like me suggesting to you (for example), oh I don’t know, that you get involved in a consensual nonconsent scene that you don’t know your partner will spring on you, or how it will happen, with you the sub all the way. Because maybe that really fires your partner’s kettle. And they love talking about it at work, in the checkout line, at the gas station, their plans for throwing a sack over your head coming home from work one day as a little “luv surprise” since you talked about it maybe once, like 6 years ago. Methinks you would balk and consider legal repercussions. I admit, I assume much, but hey, it’s my hypothetical here.
While I love the idea of GGG, I think you’re failing to grasp the behavioral cognitive implications of catering to this man’s sickness. He would take it as permission and run with it, like a wolf with a lambchop.
I dig that dommes are all into being right and power and stuff, but if you can’t recognize where your power ends and someone else’s free will begins?
Hie thee back to some more top workshops at CSPC.
STAT!
You know, usually at the point when one spouse refers to the other as “fucking asshole” and “pervert” it’s not time to threaten to serve divorce papers; it’s time to file. What’s left, lady? DTMFA.
@ Marrena – to a hammer, everything is a nail.
Marrena, your assertion that MHIO ought to respond to her husband’s boundary-crossing, borderline-assaultive behavior with reinforcement is at best ignorant, at worst dangerous. This man admitted to peeping at a neighbor, which is behavior that can (and likely eventually will) lead to legal action. He may find that titillating, being into humiliation and all, but he has no right to drag his family into it, not to mention all the nonconsenting coworkers/neighbors/poor girls who work at Victoria’s Secret who he’s already involved in his kink whether they like it or not. To assert that this behavior is merely BDSM is patently ridiculous, and reading your many comments condoning nonconsensual kink-related behavior makes me feel sorry for any poor sub who might choose to play with you. By the way, your assertion that Savage responded to the gold-star pedophile with a suggestion that he roleplay it out with a younger partner is entirely incorrect.
I wonder if MIHO’s husband is actually doing those things he says he is doing, or just -telling- his wife that he is doing those things as some sort of fantasy turn on for himself? And he is so into his fantasy that he doesn’t want to admit that they didn’t -really- happen?
Just a thought. Either way, he has serious issues and divorce papers and counseling are needed.
The whole time I read this letter I was hoping it was just fantasy.
Are you familiar with Dan at all? He has never suggested using a young-looking sex partner for pedophiles. He suggests chemical castration and oodles of therapy for pedophiles. Jesus, get your facts right at least ONCE, lady.
Yes, Marrena, look at the relevant column:
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Savag…
Dan NEVER advocated pedophiles finding young-looking partners! Where do you get this shit?
That was the most recent column. I’ve been reading Dan Savage for over a decade, he’s talked about it before.
The reading comprehension level shown in this thread certainly has convinced me that not all women are superior. Ladies, brush up on your English skills please before you start making half-assed comments.
Speaking as someone who shares the fantasies of MHIO’s husband, I would like to note what an ignorant, bigoted, fearful, torch-bearing mob you all are. (With one or two exceptions, like the brave Marenna.)
I agree with the essence of Dan’s advice as far as it went – compelling non-consensual bystanders to be part of your scene is wrong and if MHIO’s husband actually did this (more on that below) he does need a cold wake-up call and therapy wouldn’t hurt.
People on this queue have gone way overboard departing from the facts of the letter and projecting their own hang-ups. All we really know is what he told his wife he had done or “wanted” to do. It strikes me as more than 50% likely that the only person forced into a scene with him is MIHO herself when he spins his bullshit to her. From her letter MHIO hardly seems at all GGG and it is very likely that her husband is just making this shit up to involve her in the role-playing she won’t do – “I was naughty today mommy…”
And I am amazed at how frantic people are to pardon MIHO from any personal responsibility or introspection. When they met he was an inexperienced virgin. He was open about his fetishes and she married him thereafter. Nevertheless after being married long enough to have children (plural), she still can’t bring herself to speak of his sexuality more comfortably than him being “different,” and has a “whatever” attitude? This is GGG?
I’ll do a little projecting myself: Is there anything AT ALL in her letter that suggests she would be OK with him seeking the consensual play partners (that Dan refers to) outside the marriage?
Don’t get me wrong, I am not saying that her husband is not 100% responsible for his own actions and their consequences. And if it needs to be repeated for those posters with weak reading skills: Lack of consensual partners is no excuse for non-consensual activities. But the fact that he is responsible doesn’t imply that she is the driven snow.
And how is he to find these outside of wedlock consensual partners if he is not allowed to confess his fetishes to, or proposition woman he finds attractive? I’m not talking about the Victoria’s Secrets sales clerks – if that pathetic scene really played out there is just no excuse for that and he needs to leave these poor woman alone to earn their living in peace – but about the neighbor and the coworker.
It seems to be overlooked by most of you that it isn’t even alleged that he said anything sexual to either one of them – just that he wanted to or hoped to someday, – but let’s set that aside. What exactly is inappropriate about speaking openly about your “deep dark secret” fetish with a woman you are interested in? Or trying to proposition someone in the neighborhood who caught your eye? (And spare me the “criminal” and “stalking” bullshit. This could have been an inadvertent glimpse through open curtains for all we know.)
If MHIO wants her husband to keep his sexual interests secret from one and all, and not bother her too much with them either, then where is his outlet? If she wants him to be more selective about who to share it with (no one at work, none of the neighbors) but is willing to let him reach out for extramarital consensual partners discretely then they should have that conversation.
Nothing excuses any actual non-consensual activity MHIO’s husband has caused. But nothing in all this excuses MHIO from her marital obligation to be GGG either. And nothing excuses the rest of you from going on prudish sex-negative rants.
Good grief! Give Marrena a break! As a very experienced Domme, both Pro and lifestyle, I agree with what she’s saying.
It’s a sensible alternative/supplement to divorce papers. The man, without a single doubt needs therapy and lots of it. He needs some controls placed upon him as well.
If his wife wants, she probably can have a husband who doesn’t act out in public, who does all the housework and brings her tea in bed in the morning and a host of other pleasant things in her life.
What Marrena is suggesting is the wife try. That’s it. Just try. Or pack him off to a pro. I have a twenty year relationship with a married couple in a similar situation. The husband doesn’t act out in public like this dolt, but he becomes unbearable at home.
When that happens, he gets a day long reminder session with me, that his wife is as GGG as they get and he’d damned well better remember it.
Anything–absolutely anything–is OK in the realm of fantasy…and if this is just fantasy it’s OK too. However, based on what the writer stated in her letter–which is the only thing any commenter has to go on–the husband is doing nonconsensual things to completely inappropriate people. Lack of experience is no excuse for an adult person to do these things–there is plenty of educational material available in this day and age. Peeking at your neighbors in reality is NOT okay. Being openly sexual with a coworker at work is NOT okay. Harrassing salesgirls at the underwear store, NOT okay. If he is just fantasizing, he needs to tell his wife in a nonsexual moment that this is the case, because letting his wife believe he is committing criminal activity and implicating her in it is also NOT okay. If you go back and read the letter, it states that he claims to have actually said these things to the coworker and the sales clerks–the neighbor he just admits to peeping at. Regardless of how GGG the wife is or is not, if he has actually done these things, it is an indicator of a serious issue. One of my lovers is a guy into erotic humiliation, forced feminization, etc…there is nothing at all inherently wrong with these scenarios, provided that all parties CONSENT to the activity. It is not the fetish/sexuality aspect of this that makes me uncomfortable, it is the lack of consent that stops me cold. If that makes me a sex-negative torch-bearer, so be it.
Good grief! Give Marrena a break! As a very experienced Domme, both Pro and lifestyle, I agree with what she’s saying.
It’s a sensible alternative/supplement to divorce papers. The man, without a single doubt needs therapy and lots of it. He needs some controls placed upon him as well.
If his wife wants, she probably can have a husband who doesn’t act out in public, who does all the housework and brings her tea in bed in the morning and a host of other pleasant things in her life.
What Marrena is suggesting is the wife try. That’s it. Just try. Or pack him off to a pro. I have a twenty year relationship with a married couple in a similar situation. The husband doesn’t act out in public like this dolt, but he becomes unbearable at home.
When that happens, he gets a day long reminder session with me, that his wife is as GGG as they get and he’d damned well better remember it.
@139 Yadda yadda yadda… “Nothing excuses any actual non-consensual activity MHIO’s husband has caused. But nothing in all this excuses MHIO from her marital obligation to be GGG either.”
‘GGG’ only applies to kinks that are within reason, that the non-kinked partner can at least tolerate. MHIO *was* GGG; she doesn’t really get into the whole feminization/humiliation thing, but she was willing to indulge her husband to a reasonable extent. The husband quite selfishly wants to escalate the kink to a blatantly unreasonable extent, either harassing innocent third parties or emotionally manipulating his wife by making her think he is. Where’s his obligation to be GGG? We don’t know from the letter how giving and game he’s been in fulfilling her sexual needs, but he’s obviously not good, in the sense of being a good person, as it’s clear in the letter that she hates his guts now.
All this talk about her ‘duty’ to indulge his kink completely misses the point. If they are both partners in this relationship, they both have a duty to understand where each other’s comfort zones are and to only push, not break, those limits. MHIO’s husband has overindulged in his kink to the point where it’s creating a full-blown sexual incompatibility with his wife. He’s taken a fetish that she was at worst indifferent to and has turned it into something that terrorizes her. It’s not prudish or sex-negative to say that *he’s doing it wrong*, and that if he wants to keep his formerly GGG wife he needs to dial it the fuck down. Because it’s no longer about sex, about his kink, about how sad it is that she’s not letting him get his rocks off just the way he wants to. It’s about their relationship, and how he’s ruining it by being a selfish, out of control prick. And if he’s fine with that, then they can divorce and he can go find the full-time domme of his dreams and she can go find someone who can manage a basic modicum of self-control and everyone will be happy.
Except the kids, but you can never keep kids happy anyway, so fuckit.
Marrena @ 138: The reading comprehension level shown in this thread certainly has convinced me that not all women are superior.
Are you at all capable of separating your sexual fantasies from reality? I hope you are joking.
And I second #139.
I’d also like to add this–we don’t KNOW what this man has done. We “know” what his wife says he’d told her he’d done. That’s it. She never witnessed any of his actions, did she? No.
I’m betting that a man who was a 28 year old virgin isn’t the poster child for verbalizing his needs. I’ll bet you all fifty cents that his confessions are made up BS meant to get a reaction from his wife. Fantasies, if you will.
Think about it. So far, his wife is the only person he has felt safe enough with to not only have sex, but also to tell her his kinks. Do you really think this uptight, frightened guy is running around, repeatedly accosting the women at VS?
Do you really think the staff at VS aren’t trained on how to handle inappropriate creeps? And do you really think they’d let the extra creepy creeper slathered in creep sauce back in their stores once he transgressed? Maybe, but doubtful.
I’ll bet Mr. Man would be frog marched out of the mall the instant his face appeared at the VS window if he really was doing all he claimed to do.
Nope. My BS detector is on five klaxon alert. And the BS is coming both from the mate who sounds desperate for his wife’s attention and the wife who can’t for the life of her understand why he’s acting this way when she’s been sooooo GGG–in a whatever sort of way.
@143 “Avi”
How do you know she has been GGG? As I said (@139) it certainly doesn’t come through in the letter. What does come through is her distaste for the kink that is at the heart of his sexuality. Such grimacing distain after many years in the relationship isn’t a very promising indicator of a GGG, I think any reasonable person would agree.
I think you are clearly projecting.
And I think your point about “comfort zones” and “breaking limits” is also based on nothing more than your imagination. In the first place, how do you know what the limits were or what her comfort zone is? What if her comfort zone is severely restrictive? What if it is that very seldom she will indulge him reluctantly with a bit of dispirited and impatient dirty-talk while he strokes off? What if before the marriage she promised the moon? You don’t know, and neither do I.
When we marry, part of the deal is to help the other person be sexually fulfilled. That isn’t working out here and you ASSUMPTION is that it is because he is insatiable and unreasonable. But the facts neither support or disprove this. We don’t know what alternatives she has offered. Have they tried intense role play? (Intensity is a big thing for the fetishist.) Has she agreed to meet and get to know other people in their area into the scene? Has she agreed to seek a willing partner to “witness” or participate in their scenes? Has she agreed to let him seek extramarital help on this without her?
Being GGG means searching for solutions that both of you can live with – and going the extra mile out of your own “comfort zone” to make it work. Interestingly, that is what marriage means too.
Shaking divorce papers at them and telling them they need therapy every time someone gets pushed from their comfort zone is not productive, fair, or healthy.
@144 kitschnsync
Perhaps she was joking about the female superiority, but she has a really good point about the reading comprehension by the posters to this thread.
Okay, so we don’t know that he has done it for real or not…
BUT…
His wife is operating under the assumption that he actually did what he said he did. If they were factual episodes, she has every right and reason to be considering divorce or worse. He has a duty to either clue her in that he is just fantasizing out loud, or else to quietly accept the divorce papers when she files because she took him seriously.
He also needs to apologize for terrorizing her by pretending for so long that it was factual. As long is he is keeping her in the dark, it isn’t about her indulging his fantasy life, it’s about him inflicting it on her.
So either he is a complete asshole for actually doing all that stuff, or he is a complete asshole for pretending so convincingly to have done it.
@141 Joon
I think you are missing one of my points. We don’t know from the letter that he actually did these things. As you say, the letter writer says he TOLD HER he did these things. My point was that, based on my own experience and acquaintance in the fetish at hand, there is a better than even chance he was lying to her about them.
Even if he was telling the truth, the letter doesn’t really tell us he was “peeping,” only that he “could see her.” I live in a city. Just looking out the window to see the stars you see any number of folks who have left their curtains out doing this or that. (By the way, given that he “tried” but failed to contact the neighbor, it seems likely it is something like this, then the woman in the cape-cod next door that they BBQ with?) Peeping is your projection.
And what is alleged is that he was preparing to tell a coworker a secret side of him. You are telling me that making friends with someone who works where you do and eventually growing so close that you take them into your confidence about your inner feelings is a “criminal activity?” Come on.
(Hell, for all we know the VS salesclerk asked him if they were for him and flirted with him about it first. Very unlikely, I agree, but not unheard of.)
The thing is that you are putting your own frame on and reading your own HUGE ASSUMPTIONS into the letter – in each case assuming that he is the most crazed inappropriate psycho creep.
Everyone I have read on here has agreed that if he did these things in the manner that people like you ASSUME (it is NOT in the letter) then this is totally unacceptable behavior. What I am saying is, “what if your assumptions are off and it isn’t like that.” It seems like you and others on here are VERY reluctant to entertain scenarios that fit the known facts but do not make him such a villain (Or explore the implications of such scenarios.)
I think that reluctance – and your assumptions – say a lot more about you all than it does about MHIO’s husband.
Yeesh, Marrena, just providing some evidence. How is that “half-assed?” And, at the risk of showing my inferiority, I’d say that the column from February probably expresses Dan’s currents opinions on the subject.
I’d advise MHIO to check her husband’s phone records, credit cards and e-mail accounts for communications with a phone sex service that specializes in femme dommes. If this story is real, he is far enough gone that it’s likely he is paying a woman to “force” him to push the envelope — taking direction from someone he is paying would be consistent with his kinks.
However, I think Andreas375 might have better BS monitors than most of us. The letter could well be from a man who is describing his fantasies of cuckolding, humiliation, etc.
As a phone sex operator at Niteflirt.com, I have talked with men who do their best, and sometimes succeed for a while, to convince me that what they’re saying is “real” instead of fantasy. And the scenarios MHIO presents are pretty common fantasies in my neck of the phone sex world.