I have a bit of a situation. I’m a 23-year-old het male, and I am married. My wife and I have a girlfriend now, making our arrangement a polyamorous triad. We all love each other, and we are getting to the point that we are thinking about how we are going to tell our parents about our relationship.
My parents have already been told. My mother was bemused and amazed, my father gave me a high five. But my parents are divorced/remarried atheists, and by the time I was 12, my dad was teaching me how to eat pussy.
My wife’s family is super Southern Baptist, while our girlfriend’s mother is a big ol’ bag of crazy: She was a physically abusive nut job who beat her children with a Bible attached to a rope.
Should we even bother disclosing to either of their sets of Bible-beating parents? To give you an even better idea about who my mother-in-law is: I’m a recovering addict (two years sober), and after I told her that in confidence, she used it against me the first chance she got (called me a thieving junkie). She’s a hypocritical, judgmental bitch, but my wife feels like she needs her approval.
If we shouldn’t disclose, then how do we deal with things like family holidays? Is not disclosing a sign that either my wife or girlfriend is ashamed of the life we lead?
Not Telling The Whole Truth
You don’t mention how long you’ve been in this poly triad, NTTWT, but seeing as you’re only 23 and were already married before you met the girlfriend, you can’t have been in this poly triad for very long. And while it’s nice that you have such an open and honest relationship with your parents—perhaps a little too open (I’d like to take this opportunity to thank my father for not teaching me how to eat pussy when I was 12)—your wife and your girlfriend aren’t similarly blessed.
For that reason, I’m gonna advise against disclosing the true nature of your relationship(s) for the time being, NTTWT. Not because you have anything to be ashamed of—you most certainly do not—but because relationships with parents are best run on a need-to-know basis.
And it doesn’t sound like your wife’s parents need to know—not yet. This triad is new, and like most romantic relationships, it may not stand the test of time. For the moment, introduce your girlfriend as a friend; if your MIL is curious about why you’re all living together, say something vague about the economy. If it turns out that your triad is one for the ages, NTTWT, then you can come out to your MIL and weather the judgmental shitstorm.
As for the girlfriend’s mother, NTTWT, it doesn’t sound like that woman has a right to know anything about her daughter’s life.
All that said, NTTWT, I do think loving, committed nonmonogamous couples should be open with their families, if only to prove to people that loving, committed nonmonogamous couples exist. I’m not encouraging you to be closeted, just strategic. Your wife’s family is more likely to be accepting if they perceive your marriage as not just loving, but lasting. Give it a few years, NTTWT, and then, whether the current girlfriend is still in the picture or not, your wife can let her mother know—as matter-of-factly as possible—that you’re poly.
What do you know about orgasm denial for men? My husband is asking me to try all kinds of crazy things like locking him in a chastity device and denying him orgasms until he begs. Is that safe? Do many couples do it? I admit I find it kind of sexy, but how in the world do I figure out how to do it and make it fun for him?
Wants Info For Erotics
Except in the most extreme cases, WIFE, male chastity play isn’t really about orgasm denial. It’s more of an elaborate, extended kind of foreplay, a way of introducing elements of erotic power and control that usually result in the denied/chaste man having more orgasms, not fewer.
There’s no way of knowing how many wives out there are locking up their husbands’ dicks, WIFE, but there are enough couples doing it to keep male chastity device manufacturers in business (www.cb-6000.com) and enough couples interested in male chastity play for publishers to bring out books that explain how to do it and how to make it pleasurable (Male Chastity: A Guide for Keyholders by Lucy Fairbourne, Be Careful What You Wish For…: The Ultimate Guide to Male Chastity by Sarah Jameson).
As for safety: Make sure you get a chastity device that fits properly, WIFE, as you don’t want his dick to go numb, develop gangrene, and fall off—that would be nullification, not chastity. And don’t deny your husband orgasms for weeks or months on end, as that could elevate his risk for developing prostate cancer.
I’m a guy in my late 30s and have been married for 12 mostly happy years, with three kids. I’ve never cheated, despite a boring sex life that I’ve tried to spice up. My efforts were not received well. We’ve talked at length about the frequency and style of our sex life, but she’s not interested in having sex very often, and when she is, it only happens one of two ways. I’ve thought about having sex with other women but have never acted on any of the opportunities that came my way.
Anyway, I meet a girl, we’re attracted to each other, and we decide to go for it. No, my wife does not know. Yes, I’m an asshole. And the problem is, suddenly I can’t get it up—for either of them! Neither my hand nor porn work, either. WTF? I have NEVER had this problem. It’s been three attempts—patient girl, huh?—and so far nothing. I can’t tell if this is guilt, performance anxiety, or what. Has my wife, porn, and my hand ruined me for having sex with other women? Do you have any suggestions? I doubt it’s medical, since the onset occurred precisely when this girl and I decided to have sex, and that would be far too much of a coincidence.
No Catchy Sign-Off
I’m thinking either it’s guilt plus performance anxiety—guilt-induced performance anxiety—or it’s a huge and highly unlikely coincidence. A medical checkup can rule out the latter, NCSO, but only a thorough examination of your feelings, your motives, and your circumstances can help the former.
You’ve taken a huge and potentially very consequential step: You’re gonna cheat on the wife (three attempts? you’re already cheating on the wife), NCSO, and if the wife finds out—and that’s a pretty small if—that could mean divorce. (It shouldn’t mean divorce, in my opinion, but it usually does.) Seeing as the potential consequences for you, your wife, and your kids are so dire that you’ve been struck bonerless, I would advise you to stop seeing the patient girl… for now.
You’re going to have to—sorry!—talk to the wife about your frustrations and the possibility of opening up your marriage. Because the only way your dick is going to work with other women, NCSO, is if you’re not risking everything with it.
I am curious: Dan claims that orgasm denial leads to more orgasms, but the commenters here who have some experience with the topic say it’s fewer orgasms, but with a more constant ‘erotic high’ (and with every granted orgasm being so much stronger). So what’s the truth here: more orgasms, or fewer but more potent ones? Was Dan wrong?
I knew a guy with a triangular-shaped burn on his back. If you asked about it, he’d tell you about the time he failed a test and his mother “punished” him with a clothes iron. Beating someone with a Bible-on-a-rope seems mundane in comparison to that.
@53: Dan wrote: “Except in the most extreme cases, WIFE, male chastity play isn’t really about orgasm denial. It’s more of an elaborate, extended kind of foreplay, a way of introducing elements of erotic power and control that usually result in the denied/chaste man having more orgasms, not fewer.”
I think his answer would be more accurate if he said that “Male chastity play is about orgasm denial, but in a larger context of the sexual experience of the couple. It’s more of an elaborate, extended kind of foreplay, a way of introducing elements of erotic power and control that usually result in the denied/chaste man having fewer orgasms, but when he has them, they are more powerful, more intense, and overall, more “emotional” than those orgasms experienced pre-chastity.”
As someone else said, http://www.chastityforums.com is a good source of info. I also have a blog: devotedlvr.wordpress.com. I think you’ll find good information at both sites and folks who are willing to answer questions.
D
NCSO: Want something on the side? Try a therapist.
The disappointments in your marriage are probably symptoms of deeper problems to which you are contributing. You can’t run away from problems like these. You’ll take them into future relationships (along with your ugliest couch), and you’ll continue experiencing them on top of the wallet-crushing child support payments.
Confront your problems head on. Dig in and figure this shit out. It only gets worse until you do.
#53 Several regular posters on http://www.chastityforums.com report that after beginning chastity play that their marriages began to feature MUCH more regular intimacy and play. That intimacy may not lead to orgasms for the man very often, but the couples find it ENORMOUSLY more satisfying than their relationship pre-chastity play.
I was the patient girl once. I’ve been having a long-term affair with a married man who had trouble getting it up the first few times we were together. He was getting pretty worried, but he was just having trouble relaxing. We solved our problem by spending more time together and slowly exploring each other. No pills needed. No more problem.
NCSO. Therapy. Period.
What bullcrap you spewing @31 to say, “It would be better for you to divorce than to cheat….” as a blanket statement — except in the case of the terminal illness of the spouse. Honesty, even if it results in divorce, is ALWAYS THE BEST POLICY!?!? Give. Me. A. Break.
You are either crazy or have such an unrealistically simplistic (and judgmental) understanding of the complexity of human relationships that you might as well be for the quality of the advice you give. Who the hell said that “integrity” is the ultimate human virtue in the context of marriage, anyway?
I’m in a situation where I’ve been married 35 years, got married on the young side in the context of evangelical Christianity that both my wife and I shared at the time. She was a virgin when we got hitched, didn’t know that such a thing as oral sex even existed (truly), and I held up her innocence and general lack of interest in non-procreative sex as an ideal to which I should aspire. So I basically did my best to suppress my sexuality for the next couple of decades.
Fast forward 25 years to a time when I had left religion far behind me, she still held to a semblance of it but wasn’t dogmatic, we were still each other’s best friends, had two kids, AND, while I had finally embraced my sexuality as a good thing, she remained disinterested — just as she always had been. There’s simply no way I would divorce her for that. But by then the time had come — after innumerable conversations about “sex — AGAIN,” offers to go to counseling (she just felt she would be left feeling SHE would have to change, and she liked things the way they were thankyouverymuch), trying to introduce greater frequency than once every few YEARS (to no avail), and even telling her outright I wanted to have sex with other women and asking her permission (“No.”), that I started cheating.
I told her about one affair, in the misbegotten hope it would be a wake-up call, but, while she felt hurt, she didn’t divorce me, nor did she make any effort to put out more. I had no desire, or compelling reason, to stop having sex again OR to tell her about subsequent affairs. There was just no point. I didn’t, and don’t, value my sense of integrity enough to discard everything positive about our relationship or the family we’ve grown.
We have continued to grow old together, pleasurably (except for, from my perspective, the lack of sex). HOW DARE YOU say something like it would be better to divorce than lie?
@60: She also gets a vote. If she’s cool with you sleeping with other people, then the issue isn’t you “divorcing her.” If she’s not, she might want to divorce you. And she also gets that choice.
@7 (GG1000) – You are SO obviously a woman! Part of the contract of marriage and monogamy is that you give yourself up to the other person. That means doing things you don’t want to do (like clean the bathroom or open your legs on a regular basis) to your significant other. I have yet to find ANY couple who got divorced because they weren’t having regular sex. Its just an another example of problems in the marriage. I’m sure that NCSO has many other things to complain about but chooses not to.
Men (and women according to some of the people who write to Dan) are sexual creatures. It is an integral part of our lives. If women can’t handle that then open the doors to nonmonogamy. Other cultures have done it. The wife conveniently “looks away” so the husband can get his rocks off but at the same time keep the family together.
NCSO should work on his marital issues first and then determine options. Divorce is a radical step with long lasting effects on all parties and cheating eventually is uncovered.
@53 The “orgasm denial leading to more orgasms” comment is nothing like my experience nor is it the experience of others I know who’re also into orgasm denial play. I’m not sure where Dan’s coming from with that and I’d love to hear more of his position, but NO, when integrated into one’s lifestyle over long periods of time, being denied orgasms leads to…fewer orgasms!
But like I said above, that’s not at a bad thing. I think so many people (men and women both) think the entire point of sex is that it should end with a guy spurting all over the place. Dramatic theater moment aside, it’s just not true. Besides the fantastic sex one can have by not coming at the end, there’s also the high one gets from not releasing all those hormones.
Since others have plugged their blogs, I will too: http://www.denyingthumper.com
NCSO Yes dont risk it all to save your dignity. If your wife loved you she would want you to cheat maybe shes cheating on you. Its ok she doesnt want to have sex. Its not ok that this decision is foisted upon you. Get cialis and do it. The subliminal smell of another woman may be what your wife needs to regain respect for you.
The most messed up thing in the first letter is the wife’s need for approval from a hypocritical, judgmental, nut-bag bitch who beats children with bibles on a rope. Get the wife some therapy and cut off the southern psycho.
Toxic people are toxic people — parents don’t get a free pass.
I’m maybe the odd one out but I would like to agree with Mr Savage. I think long term denial and prostate cancer concerns are “valid” a 30% increase in danger is a serious number. The fact that all the studies don’t agree is…. Not amazing *Studies being flipped for various reasons.
I also want to suggest that Male Chastity doesn’t need to be about orgasm denial and in particular long term denial as it is about orgasm control. To my thinking Male Chastity is a lot about focus on the female (Pleasure) in and out of the bedroom. Some folks take this to mean submission and domination, others keep it at tease. Some want this to be a “kink” and others push it to 24:7
Far too many seem to know the “ONLY” way it must be done.
Humm.. Guess I should have registered before trying to post a comment so here goes again.
First – I agree with Mr Savage. Long term denial and prostate cancer… There are a variety of studies but the ones that suggest frequency and cancer issues are connected are pretty strong so why test it?
Second I think this “can” be just about male orgasm “Control” and it may well end up being an orgasmic increase rather then a marathon of denial. Lots of the male chastity “porn” seems to be about long term denial rather then control but at least a few folks have told me they ended up having more sex (With male Orgasm) then less. I think there are quite a few variations on how you do this and how far you take it. It can be more “tease” or you can go full on into Femdom if thats your thing. Just as you can go for denial for long periods or just as control and focus on female pleasure (in and out of the bedroom)
Jimi123
The first letter sounds very real to me. There’s some extreme behavior described in it (a 12-year-old being told how to eat pussy by his father, the bible-on-a-rope thing, etc.) but it’s all – unfortunately – very plausible.
The thing about the mother-in-law calling him a “thieving junkie” is the type of detail (anger over a different issue) that you’d see in a real letter. And there are plenty of weird-ass parents out there with a range of issues, so the idea of a father thinking it’s funny to give his 12-year-old son pointers on oral sex doesn’t seem completely unrealistic. (If he’d said that his father would make him practice on a blowup doll, and punish him for improper technique by hitting him with a bible, THEN I’d say it was a fake letter.)
Anyway, I think the most troubling thing in the letter is the part about the wife wanting to tell her supposedly-evil mother, because she feels that she “needs her approval.” Why does she feel that way? Does that mean that she’ll want to drop their new girlfriend if the mother doesn’t give her blessing? If so, start worrying – because I don’t think her approval is coming anytime soon.
If the letter said, “My wife doesn’t like the idea of lying to her parents about who our girlfriend is,” then I wouldn’t find it troublesome.
I’d advise keeping the poly thing on the DL for now. I was in a four year relationship with one girl where we dated another girl for awhile. Due to her insecurity she insisted we introduce her to our friends as our girlfriend. It made us feel really stupid and after she went away we wished we hadn’t.
Also, #65 – the bible-on-a-rope woman isn’t the wife’s mother, it’s the girlfriend’s mother. So the wife’s need for validation from her mother is disturbing, but it’s not the crazy, physically-abusive woman that she wants it from.
@60– Thank you, someone else out there gets it!
I’ve been trying to explain this to a friend of mine who’s been with his wife for 10 years — and has had sex to “completion” (he’s orgasmed) ONE TIME. In 10 years. Once.
Life’s too short for that nonsense.
@60, Seems to me that since you told her about one affair, and she dealt with it, that’s pretty close to what Dan asks of everyone.
Did you promise not to do it again? If not, then I’d say you’re on solid ground. If you did promise, then maybe you should revisit the issue with her.
There’s also the issue of disease to worry about. Maybe you owe it to your wife to use condoms *with her* on the rare occasions when you two have sex. Or be pretty damn sure that you don’t pick anything up in your extracurricular activities.
Any word on chastity devices and uncircumsized men? I’ve tried to ask Dan before without any answer and have had trouble finding the answer to this on my own. Word is that it can be problematic. True?
NCSO—- talk to your wife!!!! PLEASE!!!! its hard, its painful, risky, and will be hurtful, BUT, she is your partner! She deserves the truth and your respect.
All you cheaters out there, its hard to find support, and I see a lot of stone throwers out there,even here. If you a looking for people who are *going through it*…..find us!
themarriedothers@gmail.com
Its amazing how good it is to bounce ideas off of anon. people who are GOING THROUGH IT!!
apollo11reporter….you get it! Thank you for your sane and wonderful post. See above, we would love to have you on board!
Those of you crying foul on us cheaters, I only hope for your sake you don’t end up where we are. I was like you once….”blah, blah blah, who could do such a thing, just get a divorce…”
Ah, to be that young again, when the world was black and white, and I knew everything. Hello, marriage is about so much more then sex. I tried *everything* to improve….sharing fantasies, roleplaying, swinging; just, for the love of god, PLEASE satisfy me!!! I love sex and really want to make regular partner orgasms a part of my life. I even told hubby “if things do not change, I am going to cheat”. They didn’t, so I did.
I found a man who makes me feel sexy and vibrant and alive, and makes me come like nobodies business. He has taught me things about my body I didn’t know were possible.
How dare you judgemental pricks who have never walked in my shoes tell me the choices are so easy. “Oh just talk to him.” FUCK YOU, I have. “Oh, just leave him” Rip an entire family apart because I am not coming? Again, fuck you. I found another married man with the same problem, and we have been screwing each other’s brains out for going on 8 years now. Is it always easy? Of course not, life never is when you take your clothes off. But to imply we are inheriently evil, or are options are simple….walk a mile in our shoes……in my case, my lover and I are just trying to do what we can to be happy, yet make sure no one gets hurt.
@72 I agree on your assessment of 60. I wouldn’t call his situation cheating.
I think his wife has tacitly given him permission to pursue an open relationship, but just doesn’t want to know or have anything to do with it.
If sleeping with another person would be devastating to your partner(and potentially lead to divorce), then yes it would be better to get divorced than cheat. But with 60, I think there might be some uncomfortable feelings, but not devastation if his wife knew what he was doing.
Astonishingly dull letters!
Dan,did you hear about the article in the Pittsburgh Tribune Review dated 10/23/2010. Couple charged in trust fund theft donated 1,000 dollars to the Santorum Victory Comittee.
I have to go with # 76 on NCSO. Communication is good – He should tell his wife (in a caring and honest way) how bad things have gotten for him, and what his needs are.
But If she can’t (or doesn’t want) to meet his needs, that doesn’t need to be the end of being parents together, or even living together (tho for some reason, people chose to lock all these things together). But if she can’t meet her partner’s reasonable needs, I seriously question her right to stop them from getting his needs met elsewhere.
Now if this guy does have sex with someone else, he should be honest about it UNLESS their sex life is completely shut down, just so that she knows what health risks are in play, and can decide for herself in an informed manner. If they’ve STOPPED having sex, her jurisdiction is over.
I detest dishonesty, but I also detest the idea of marginalizing someone’s sexual needs – someone who is totally sexually dissatisfied should not be told to ‘get over it’. For many people sexual enjoyment is one of the best parts of life – that’s not immature, it’s human. If you’re not one of those people, that’s fine, but don’t pretend there’s something wrong with placing sexual needs high on your list of dealbreakers. ‘Get over it?’ Really?
And as far as ‘cheating’: Relationships change, and people need to stop overromanticizing things and cultivating suffering. He has an obligation to be honest with his wife, and to not put her health at risk, but suffering for another 30-40 years because she’s unwilling or unable to meet his needs is ridiculous. And as several people have already said, divorce may have far more consequences and hurt far more people than just getting laid elsewhere.
Hah! Beating children with a bible tied to a rope…that was my ex-MIL (between doing lines of coke). Honestly, my advice: ditch the GF with the crazy family. Sorry, I know that’s cold and the “sins of the father” and all that, but really, that stuff leaves all sorts of emotional damage and crazy in it’s wake.
Hey you self-serving twats –
Some women need monogamy. (As do some men.) It’s far from unnatural. Many choose it.
Personally, I think it’s normal and natural, at least for women.
And under that paradigm – I find it very interesting that the two women who are willing to share letterwriter #1 – you know, the guy whose attitudes towards women were formed by a dad who told him at age 12 how to eat pussy – were both horribly emotionally abused throughout their lives and still feel desperately dependent on outside approval.
I’m just sayin. Well, actually, I’d like to start the discussion from an alternate pov. I love Dan Savage, I love Be Who You Are, but I also love Don’t Kid Yourself. And frankly, it’s bad for holdouts like me when women who would rather have an equal relationship instead sell out and settle for half of a man (at most). OK, I accept that MAYBE the two women are happy as can be – but given their history, is ANYONE willing to acknowledge that MAYBE they’re setting and kidding themselves??!
Hey,
Quick comment for those into chastity.
There is a better device than the CB 6000. It’s one called the Birdcage. I know people who have worn one for over a month and it’s been nothing but comfortable.
Hey,
Quick comment for those into/curious about chastity.
The CB 6000 is good but there is one called the Birdcage which is becoming very popular because of how comfortable it is. I know someone who has worn it for well over a month.
Just thought I’d share!
I’d personally like more details on NCSO and what his attempts at getting more sex are. And just for fun what the “one of two ways” are. It’d be pretty great if it were “missionary” and “at a swing event”.
#82 –
First of all, the letter only indicates that the girlfriend has an abusive mother. The wife’s mother sounds like a real bitch, but so are plenty of parents, and that doesn’t mean we should refer to all of their kids as abuse survivors.
Second, who’s to say that the two women are only interested in the man, and “sharing” him is all they’re getting out of the relationship? In many triads, the partners all get it on with each other – and I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s what’s going on here.
Third, the girlfriend is an adult, and she’s not (so far as we know) subjecting herself to abuse or mistreatment now. I see no reason to second-guess her choices, just because she happens to have had an abusive mother.
NTTWT: Dan’s right to suggest you wait until you know which aspects of your marriage will be long-lasting before disclosing anything to her parents. Meanwhile, you and your wife should have a very blunt talk about what she hopes to accomplish by telling them, and what the actual outcome is likely to be.
If you meant to write that your wife doesn’t like keeping secrets from her parents, and would rather get the sh!tstorm over with sooner than later, that’s a fair point. But her desire to direct the course of her relationship with her parents should be balanced by a desire not to poison *your* relationship with her parents any further than it already is. IOW, if your wife insists on telling them, she should make it *very* clear to her parents that this is a choice she has embraced willingly, and not an arrangement that her “thieving junkie” husband foisted on her. Her mother will want to see you as the bad guy who corrupted her innocent daughter, and it’s important that your wife not tacitly allow them to demonize you in some clumsy attempt to make them like her better.
If you meant exactly what you wrote: eventually your wife has to come to grips with the fact that her narrow-minded mother will never approve of the life you’ve chosen to build together. Among other things, being an adult means owning your own choices, and not looking for approval from people who won’t give it to you. Telling her parents something that they are almost certain to take very badly, and then getting hurt and upset when they express their disapproval at every possible opportunity for the indefinite future, is not a good plan.
There is a big difference between sex outside of a relationship, and cheating on the mother of your children. Cheating is not just sex, it is lies and conspiracy with another person. It is not sex which causes the horrible, gut wrenching feeling of shame, betrayal and fear which comes with finding out about an “affair” (and she will find out… and the longer it takes, the longer she is lied to, the worse it is), it is having the stability of your family literally stolen from you without your knowledge or consent.
I had a good sex life with my husband. I was GGG all the way, even when he was too uptight to be. I stood by through two years of unemployment, tried to be supportive and hold my family together. When I found out he had cheated, I was hurt but hey, I’ve been in open relationships. I’ve been in poly relationships. I can deal with sex, and I could understand why he did it. He said it was a one time thing, and our marriage was briefly much better. Nearly a year later I discovered it had never ended, that the lies had been myriad, elaborate and grotesque. She wanted him to marry her. She said she was pregnant. He planned to leave me, but never did until I finally threw him out. They made plans together which included her buying me out of our apartment, her giving him a job (never happened, he is still unemployed), and the two of them getting custody of my two children. After I ended the marriage his relationship with her lasted just over two months before she went all fatal attraction and I had to threaten restraining orders.
So I get a little bit sick when I read about how people shouldn’t allow sex to break up marriage. I didn’t. It was the lies and abusive way I was treated that did that. I didn’t want to make my children go through divorce, but in the end I thought it was better that they not be raised by a mother that allowed herself to be treated like she was worthless. A year and a half later I have a good job that supports my two kids (Thank you Obama Stimulus Program and SFJobsNow). I have found the man who loved me since college and waited for me for nearly 20 years.
He is still unemployed and lives with his mother.
Think about that when you decide to cheat rather than be honest.
There is a big difference between sex outside of a relationship, and cheating on the mother of your children. Cheating is not just sex, it is lies and conspiracy with another person. It is not sex which causes the horrible, gut wrenching feeling of shame, betrayal and fear which comes with finding out about an “affair” (and she will find out… and the longer it takes, the longer she is lied to, the worse it is), it is having the stability of your family literally stolen from you without your knowledge or consent.
I had a good sex life with my husband. I was GGG all the way, even when he was too uptight to be. I stood by through two years of unemployment, tried to be supportive and hold my family together. When I found out he had cheated, I was hurt but hey, I’ve been in open relationships. I’ve been in poly relationships. I can deal with sex, and I could understand why he did it. He said it was a one time thing, and our marriage was briefly much better. Nearly a year later I discovered it had never ended, that the lies had been myriad, elaborate and grotesque. She wanted him to marry her. She said she was pregnant. He planned to leave me, but never did until I finally threw him out. They made plans together which included her buying me out of our apartment, her giving him a job (never happened, he is still unemployed), and the two of them getting custody of my two children. After I ended the marriage his relationship with her lasted just over two months before she went all fatal attraction and I had to threaten restraining orders.
So I get a little bit sick when I read about how people shouldn’t allow sex to break up marriage. I didn’t. It was the lies and abusive way I was treated that did that. I didn’t want to make my children go through divorce, but in the end I thought it was better that they not be raised by a mother that allowed herself to be treated like she was worthless. A year and a half later I have a good job that supports my two kids (Thank you Obama Stimulus Program and SFJobsNow). I have found the man who loved me since college and waited for me for nearly 20 years.
He is still unemployed and lives with his mother.
Think about that when you decide to cheat rather than be honest.
Apollo – people dare suggest breaking up over a fundamental incompatibility because it’s usually the most humane and rational and loving (ultimately) thing to do. Granted you and your wife went into marriage from the worst environment to prepare you for it, but imagine if as soon as you were aware of sexual incompatibility, you set out to either remedy it or end the relationship. So you would have either fixed it, or been free to find more truly compatible partners. That would have made one hell of a lot more sense than ongoing suppression, guilt, and deceit.
You say it worked out wonderfully for you, then great. But suggesting it as somehow just what people do, as if there really is no alternative? Nuh-uh.
—-
And I agree that all three in Poly Heaven sound enough like their relationship is a reaction to their weird upbringings for NITTWIT to not be so worried about informing their childhood abusers or how they’d take it.
To NCSO: Since you still love or have deep feelings for your wife, I’d chalk it up to guilt. Similar thing happened to me when nine months separated from my first wife. Despite the relationship being obviously over, I still cared for her and had not yet let go…boner deflator.
Once you resolve your emotional state, you’ll get back in the saddle. Unfortunately, if you decide to divorce, such resolution will probably take a while. Good luck. I hope your kids don’t get hurt.
I’d like to take this opportunity to thank my father for not teaching me how to eat pussy when I was 12
I’m speechless. One hopes his father didn’t grab a live model for demonstration purposes…
Yeah. It’s the little things in life to be grateful for, for sure.
bible on a rope = PINATA!!!! sorry folks, already made one! partay!!!
If one of the partners of the triad is waiting to allow religious fanatic parents to get use to the idea of “a long term relationship” she is committed to before she “comes out” as polyamorous, then she may find that she can never be open and honest with her own parents. She is the one who needs the time to mature enough and to become strong enough to realize that continuing to remain in contact with her closed-hearted parents does not make for a healthy parent to child relationship and to break all ties off with them.
When any member of my family cannot love me unconditionally, I cut them out of my life (I have found that my life is healthier and happier as a result when I applied this to my circle of friends). Although that hasn’t happen with the members of my family I have informed so far, because they love me for who I am and not for what I do WITH MY LIFE, they process enough love and respect for me not to criticize me even when they don’t relate to it or disagree with it personally. But I must say that I have applied honesty with them beforehand when I came out as a pacifist and as a Pagan, so it came as no shock to most of my family members when I told them that I was bisexual and polyamorous later on. I think that they suspected anyway, “Well, that’s Deborah!”. My grown son teases me by saying that I am weird, but that I was the “world’s best Mom” in his opinion.
It is how you love, not whom you impress, in this life that counts.
“She was a physically abusive nut job who beat her children with a Bible attached to a rope.”
Wow, that’s a new one! Gives new meaning to the term, “bible thumping”.
To NTTWT:
This one is simple, Don’t throw your Pearls before the Swine. Also, therapy for all individually and as a poly couple is highly recommended. Why? To work through the issues of Religious abuse and the resulting trauma. Also, being a twosome couple is difficult in the best of situations, being in a poly, well, just one third harder.
@19: While I respect your opinion on young marriages, I would like to say that many couples in my family and among my friends and acquaintances have married young and led healthy, happy marriages for at the very least a very long time, if not ‘until death do you part’. While some young people may enter into marriage for the wrong reasons, there are a multitude who commit so deeply because they honestly feel that it is what is meant for them and their partner. All elephants are grey, but not all grey things are elephants. Just a friendly reminder.
That being said, I believe that NTTWT should wait to see if the relationship with this new girlfriend is even an honest poly or if it’s just a passing fling. God knows we’ve all had those. If, in the future, she becomes an integral and steady emotional part of the relationship and they feel it necessary that their parents know, that is when they should ‘come out’, so to speak.
The hottest words in the world to a mom from the dad are “How may I help you around the house?”. If more men knew that these words (and appropriate follow up!) constitute foreplay, a lot more of them would be able to stay home for the sex they crave after the work is done together!
I can personally attest to the existence of belt-and-bible whippings, in the life of myself and my siblings and a whole lot of the people I knew growing up in a fundamentalist state, so no, I don’t think NTTWT is making that bit up. I wish it were so unthinkable that every mention of it would sound like fiction, but the scars on my back won’t let me forget that this particular form of Christian Love is all too real.
@98 – please spare us the choreplay argument. Of course it makes sense for both partners to be cooperative and helpful.
But imagine what you’re saying – if the guy does the chores and doesn’t get the play. That happens. And in any case, an explicit trade of that sort isn’t the basis for a loving relationship in my book. I’m happy that they should both be looking out for each other in whatever way means something to each other, particularly in partnered intimacy which cannot be substituted by hired help in an exclusive relationship. You can hire someone to do the chores.
Morticia328 @98: Nice, but you have the activities in the wrong order.
If you only have energy enough for either all the housework, or some housework and some sex, and you choose to put the housework first…well, you’ve just effectively said that sex with your husband is slightly less exciting to you than a clean kitchen sink. How would you like to be on the receiving end of that message?
You are also for all intents and purposes holding sex hostage to the housework. Sex has become not something you both enjoy and a bond between you, but a weapon that you use to control his behavior.
Both of these convey that idea to him that sex with him, purely for its own sake, does not appeal to you.
When someone comes along who actually expresses genuine enthusiasm about the idea of sex with him … honestly, what do you think is likely to happen?
So, have the sex FIRST — BEFORE you feel so exhausted by all the work. Seriously: sex is supposed to be something that improves your mood, not something that drains you. If it feels like a drain it’s probably because you waited until you were already drained by other things, and then you blame it on the sex.
Putting the sex first accomplishes several things:
1) You are both doing it while you are still fresh, so it will feel like a good idea, rather than one more thing when you are already tired.
2) Good sex should energize both of you for other activities afterwards (like cleaning), rather than other activities draining you for sex.
3) Your husband will feel like sex with him is something that you actually enjoy, rather than a transaction (yes, a transaction: sex given in exchange for other considerations received; and what does that make you?) along with everything that implies about your relationship.
4) Afterwards the two of you should be feeling bonded and happy, which means your husband is a lot more likely to do the vacuuming and fold laundry with you cheerfully.
Couple of things:
to the housework argument: ideally, i think the concept is that a. she wants to put out but is too exhausted/stressed, and b.you want to help out more but dont (for whatever reason). Perhaps there should be less expectation on both sides and more attempts to do more for the other side, not because it might get them some or the dishes done, but because you love this person and want to help.
to the cheating discussion:
Your comments all seem to focus on how you feel. Its wonderful that you feel fulfilled and special and valued, but ill bet when/if your significant other finds out about it, not only will they NOT feel the same way, but they’ll end it. And why is that? Because if they knew what you were doing, they would want out of the relationship. You’re saying hey, how dare you tell me i should divorce him/her? Why should they not divorce you? Perhaps with someone other than you they could have a better relationship. Perhaps they dont find you attractive. Who knows. Note: this doesn’t apply for significant others who don’t really care about infidelity (secretly or not).