My mother left her e-mail logged in on my computer, and I decided to be an asshole and snoop out of boredom. I honestly wasn’t expecting anything, but I found a few intimate e-mails between her and a strange man that pretty much confirmed that she was cheating on my dad.
My parents have been married for almost three decades, and it’s kind of an understatement to say he’s an antisocial psycho. He restricted her from so many things during their marriage—partly for religious/cultural reasons—and honestly did not appreciate what he had. He’s been a physical wreck for most of their marriage and has no personality to compensate. My mother, on the other hand, is one of the nicest and most caring people you could ever meet.
Okay: Dad’s an abusive asshole and borderline psycho, and Mom’s a beautiful woman with a lot of opportunities and social skills. The only reason she didn’t leave him was to keep the family together and for those same stupid cultural reasons. But it’s hard knowing my mom is a CPOS. It’s killing my older brother, who is close to her, and it’s making him really depressed. He feels betrayed, because for years he’s defended her against my father when he accuses her of cheating and calls her a whore. So what I want advice on is how the hell to confront her about it. I know I snooped in her e-mail, and I know that was wrong. So what the hell to say?
Mother Obliterated Monogamy
Here’s what you say to your mother: “Good for you, Mom.”
But you’re going to say it under your breath, MOM, audible but not quite loud enough for your mother to hear.
Because you’re not going to confront her about this affair or any other affair that you might uncover between now and your father’s death and you’re not going to tell your mom you snooped and you and your brother are going to go right on defending your mother to your father and you’re going to show a little respect—a little retroactive respect—for your mother’s privacy by pretending that you don’t know what you do know.
Is that clear?
Your mom sounds like a lovely woman, MOM, and you and your brother should be happy that she managed to find a little solace, a little love and tenderness, in the arms of a man who isn’t a raving asshole. She deserves that, doesn’t she? As for the CPOS label, that gets slapped only on people who cheat without cause, MOM, and it sure sounds like your mom had cause. Which means she’s not a cheating piece of shit. She’s cheating on a piece of shit.
Yes, yes: Maybe your mom should’ve divorced your father, or had him murdered, but for reasons that will only ever be known to her, MOM, she decided that keeping her family intact—maybe for cultural reasons, maybe for her boys—was more important than remaining faithful to an antisocial psycho. It’s easy to say that cheating is always wrong and to call everyone who cheats a POS, but sometimes an affair is the least worst option.
As for your brother’s feelings of betrayal: Maybe your dad was right and your mom was cheating on him throughout their marriage and his tirades were justified and your brother was a fool to defend your mother. Or maybe your mom decided, after being accused of cheating again and again, and after being called a whore again and again, that if she was going to be accused, indicted, and tried for that particular crime, she might as well have the pleasure of committing it. Encourage your brother to give your mother the benefit of the doubt. It sounds like she deserves it.
I’m a 28-year-old gay man. My only sibling is getting married next year, and I’m invited. My family doesn’t support my gayness. My mom has met my boyfriend only once and refused to be in his presence for more than two minutes. Should I bring my boyfriend to my sister’s wedding or ask him to stay home? My invitation came with only my name on it.
Brother Of The Bride
You say: “Hey, Sis. Looking forward to the wedding. I’ve been seeing a great guy for two years now, as you know, and I’m planning on bringing him to the wedding.”
If she says, “Don’t bring him. It’ll just piss off Mom,” then you say, “I’m coming with my boyfriend or I’m not coming at all—and remember, Sis, one day Mom will be dead and it’s just going to be you and me. So in the long run, you should be more concerned about pissing me off than pissing Mom off.”
And if she says, “Don’t bring him. I don’t want your gay boyfriend at my wedding,” then you say, “If you don’t want gays at your wedding, Sis, then you shouldn’t have invited me. I want to be there—but if I come, I’m bringing my boyfriend.”
Have the confrontation now, BOTB, so that you can’t be accused of trying to make trouble/drama right before your sister’s wedding. But you need to seize this opportunity to dictate terms to your family: They can have their homophobia or they can have you in their lives—but they can’t have both.
Last year, around this time, you promised to share your mom’s Christmas cookie recipe with the readers of your blog. I would love to try it out if you’re okay with sharing the recipe.
Jason
I’m delighted to share my mom’s Christmas cookie recipe. She made these chocolate snowballs every year when her kids were young. Once her kids were grown, Ma Savage shipped tins of these cookies to us if we couldn’t make it home for Christmas. Now I make them in December and ship tins off to my siblings on her behalf. It’s a great recipe for folks with little kids: There’s a step where you roll the dough into balls, a perfect job for little (freshly washed) hands.
I made some earlier this month, had a little sob (I’m still missing my mom), and got some tins off to my sibs. I’m happy to share my mom’s recipe with you, Jason, and with Savage Love readers.
Ma Savage’s Christmas Snowballs
2 cups flour
1/8 teaspoon salt
1/2 cup unsweetened cocoa powder
1 1/4 cup butter
2/3 cup sugar
1 teaspoon vanilla
2 cups pecans
confectioners’ sugar
Sift flour, salt, and cocoa together. Cream butter and sugar until fluffy, and add vanilla. Gradually beat dry ingredients into butter and sugar. Blend in pecans. Form dough into a loaf, wrap it up, put in fridge overnight.
Cut loaf into inch-thick slices, cut slices into inch-square cubes, roll cubes into balls about one inch in diameter. Bake on ungreased cookie sheet at 350 degrees for 20 minutes maximum. Transfer cookies off sheets right away and allow to cool completely. Put cookies in tub or tin, sift confectioners’ sugar over cookies, put lid on, turn tin or tub over a few times to coat cookies with confectioners’ sugar.
Enjoy my mom’s cookies and have a merry Christmas and a happy New Year, everyone.
@ 33 — I would love to see Miss Manners’ response to this. Actually, I’ve thought for some time that it would be fun for a bunch of advice columnists to share letters and then each write an independent response. It would be interesting to compare responses from Dan, Miss Manners, Dear Abby, Margo Howard, Prudie, and more to the same letters.
@101 Spot on. People who are saying here that weddings are just about the bride and groom are full of shit and have never planned a wedding. It is always always always about family and everyone makes sacrifices to get everyone there and have a good time w/o fighting.
On a side note, this is het privilege speaking, but I cannot imagine a sibling not inviting my boyfriend to his/her wedding as my guest. How ruthlessly cold.
@92 Exactly! BotB isn’t talking about bringing drama to the wedding, he’s talking about bringing his significant other!
If it ends up that the invitation isn’t properly extended, BotB should not attend but a gift should be sent bearing only the name of BotB’s man.
Sorry Dan, wrong advice to BOB. One never brings uninvited guests to a wedding, and one certainly does not pose ultimata to the bride or groom. BOB was invited, and he should go the way he was invited, alone. My advice would apply no matter the sex of the uninvitee (or race, age, or marital status for that matter).
Maybe BOB lives in a state where he will marry his partner someday, whereupon he can invite whomever the hell he wants. Until then, he has no right to dictate the guest list.
Respecting someones big day is not the same as condoning discrimination. We cannot build a better world for ourselves if we allow flat out wrong behaviour to pass because the day is ‘special’. Justice matters, or it doesnt. If justice matters, then any blatant act of discrimination should not be given a gate pass, wedding or no.
I am straight, with a very homophobic mother. there is no way on earth I would consider her feelings and not invite same sex partners to my wedding. If she has an issue, she stays at home.
Re: BOTB. Yes, it is the sister’s wedding day. But those of you suggesting it is okay to leave the boyfriend at home to avoid drama, you’re wrong. You are blaming the victim.
If BOTB brings his boyfriend, and his mom starts up some drama, who’s fault is that? Mom’s fault, of course. Mom should keep a civil tongue in her mouth for her daughter’s wedding, even if she is a homophobic shrew and can’t stand BOTB’s boyfriend. If she is incapable of doing so, then Mom is the one that shouldn’t be invited.
I’m 100% with Dan. Politely have a conversation with the sister now. Gently let her know that you both go, or neither of you go. You get all of me or none of me, not a fake me without my other half. If she can’t deal with that, send her your regrets and don’t go.
BOTB would only be at fault for any drama if he shows up with the boyfriend without telling sister ahead of time. She may have simply never thought of it much before. She may rightfully assume that BOTB won’t bring the boyfriend. So he does at least owe her a phone call/email to clarify his intentions. Then she must decide where she stands.
Re BOBT: I feel a few writers here have not taken their blinders off. It’s as though mom’s homophobia is seen as immutable while the brother’s sexual orientation is somehow easily put aside for a day. It’s the reverse! Lets not put all the responsibility for the “drama-control” on the brother…
A mother is demeaning her own son and expects his sister to go along with it. Blame her. Have her grow up.
Re BOBT: I feel a few writers here have not taken their blinders off. It’s as though mom’s homophobia is seen as immutable while the brother’s sexual orientation is somehow easily put aside for a day. It’s the reverse! Lets not put all the responsibility for the “drama-control” on the brother…
A mother is demeaning her own son and expects his sister to go along with it. Blame her. Have her grow up.
My sympathies to BOTB. It’s kinda funny. My family (cousins and such) were trying to get me to bring my “boyfriend” to their weddings before I even had a boyfriend.
My question is, does the wedding invitation say “BOTB and Guest”? If so, than his boyfriend is implicitly invited and it is no one’s business whether or not he brings him. If the invitation is to BOTB only, then he should probably ask his sister before adding another guest to the guestlist.
Either way, if BOTB and his boyfriend both go, and someone starts drama, it is technically the fault of the dramatist. How the rest of the family will read the situation is anybody’s guess.
Dan is right that whatever discussion is necessary should happen now, not close to the wedding.
My sympathies to BOTB. It’s kinda funny. My family (cousins and such) were trying to get me to bring my “boyfriend” to their weddings before I even had a boyfriend.
My question is, does the wedding invitation say “BOTB and Guest”? If so, than his boyfriend is implicitly invited and it is no one’s business whether or not he brings him. If the invitation is to BOTB only, then he should probably ask his sister before adding another guest to the guestlist.
Either way, if BOTB and his boyfriend both go, and someone starts drama, it is technically the fault of the dramatist. How the rest of the family will read the situation is anybody’s guess.
Dan is right that whatever discussion is necessary should happen now, not close to the wedding.
@59: Did you substitute oil for butter? Did you fail to let the cookie sheets cool down between batches? Either of those will cause the balls to lose their shape. Bet they tasted good, though.
BOTB doesn’t want to bring “drama”–an over-used vague word that should get retired–to his sister’s wedding. Nor does he want to bring a “+1,” a phrase which suggests a more casual date. This is his boyfriend of two years. It may well be his fiance and later his husband, a member of the bride’s extended family.
And yes, family is what weddings are about, not merely the mother of the bride’s intolerances or the bride’s desire to control everyone under the excuse of “it’s *her* day.”
Families include that creepy cousin who probably has Asperger’s, this hideous aunt, the flatulant grandfather who makes distasteful jokes, the uncle who got arrested for a DUI, and the teenage cousin going through a goth phase who shows up dressed like the spider queen. The bride doesn’t exclude these “embarrassments” because of their potential for “drama.”
BOTB should talk to his sister as civilly as possible before issuing the ultimatum, but yes, he needs to do it.
As a whole lot of feminists said in the 1970s, the personal *is* the political.
And in the long run, he may well only see his bigoted mother and spineless sister a few times a year, but he’s going to want to continue a relationship with his boyfriend, who may not appreciate being sacrificed on the alter of “the bride’s day” to appease a bigoted, blackmailing bully.
The boyfriend’s name should be on the invitation envelope itself, not even as a +1.
I’m with @4: Great column once again—and I can’t wait to try out your Mom’s Christmas Snowball Cookies! Thanks, Dan!
Merry Christmas and Happy 2011!
BotB needs to talk to his sister, calmly, before issuing any sort of ultimatum. Previous commenters assume that everyone else who has been invited to the wedding was invited with a guest, when the letter does not state that at all. Perhaps nobody was invited with a guest (though that would be strange, I have gone to weddings where the bride and groom had a very small budget and therefore nobody was invited with guests). I have also been to a wedding where none of the invitations were addressed to “Name and Guest”, but the bride and groom assumed that everybody knew that they could bring a guest. Either one of these things could be happening, and in either case, it would not be discrimination at all. BotB won’t know if he doesn’t bring it up, but he shouldn’t start by assuming that it’s a deliberate slight.
Thanks for the recipe, Dan. I made the cookies and they are quite delicious! I only hope these links work.
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-s…
and…
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-s…
Oh, and happy holidays, Slog!
I believe Miss Manners would state that instead of using the words “and guest” on the invitation, the bride, if she wishes to invite a long-term partner of an unmarried person, should bother to find out the name of the partner and write *that* on the invitation.
I also believe that Miss Manners has stated that a religious ceremony in a church is in a public place, and therefore no-one can be ‘disinvited’ from attending the wedding ceremony. I like, therefore, the suggestion that both BOTB and his partner attend the ceremony, smiling grimly, and not the reception. To be faultlessly correct, they should send the gift to the brides’ parents’ house before the wedding.
BOTB doesn’t seem to have problems in the manners department: his sister does. It’s not a matter of making a political stand at all – it’s about mutual respect between family members who are supposed to love and support one another. Apart from the obvious fact that it’s unheard of not to offer a +1 to immediate family, she is also pointedly insulting BOTB’s SO.
As a straight girl, I can’t know exactly how BOTB’s bf must feel about all of this….but if it were me, I would have zero interest in attending my boyfriend’s sister’s wedding after she had deliberately snubbed me like that. I’d support my BF if he still chose to go – it’s his only sister, after all. But it’s seriously rude of her not to invite him.
…and it *was* deliberate – make no mistake – unless there will only be a handful of people there, there’s no way she wasn’t making a Statement of her own when she chose not to extend a plus one to her own brother, and she apparently doesn’t have a problem with offending his BF in the process. She should be ashamed of herself on HER DAY.
What does HER DAY mean, anyway? One day in your life when you’re allowed to be a selfish, inconsiderate twit? I seriously doubt there would be a shouting match or people hurling canapes across the room at each other, just because her brother walks in with his BF. If she won’t risk the possibility of even a little awkwardness, then she obviously isn’t a very loving person. At least not where her brother is concerned.
I LOVE you, Dan! Whenever I tell anyone about your column, I say, “So, this week, theloveofmylifeDanSavage said…” etc. Yep, all 1 word. That said, thank you for telling MOM what he needed to hear (& I’m quite sure MOM is a “he”). You could’ve heaped much more verbal abuse on him, tho, cuz for someone (& his brother) who can’t WAIT to throw the CPOS label around, he didn’t seem to have ANY CLUE about how much of a huge POS he himself is. Hell, his mother can come live at my house-she deserves better than the POS Twins. @ 70: my family is Romanian/Greek (I grew up Eastern Orthodox Catholic)& I have no problem saying that MOM’s family may be also,or other E. European,Chaldean,Turkish,Muslim.If you were one of these cultures, you would know just how much the male is worshiped (I’ve got some fabulous paternal-grandparent stories for you). Different cultures DO have different ideals; ignoring that & pretending they don’t is wrong. List of peeps for ME to worship & adore: #3,5,7,12,16-18,29,30(when u ended w/’shaddup etc’I wanted to reach thru the screen & kiss u,37-39,42,46,52,54-57,61,62(excellent)68,72,84,91,99. Have a great holiday to all.
merry christmas everyone !
To MOM: what part of ‘it’s none of your business’ didn’t you understand?
To BOTB: It sounds like your sister is a real bitch. To intentionally not invite your long-term boyfriend is unbelievably rude. There is no way she’d have done that if you were dating a woman; just no way. This is either homophobia or it’s cowardice, because she doesn’t want to deal with your parents’ issues. I don’t know why you’d want a relationship with this woman, but if you do, then Dan was right, you have to call her on it. Otherwise, she and the rest of your family will assume that it’s okay to treat you like this permanently. And no, you aren’t the one making the drama–she is.
Printing column…off to bake with kids. It is a Great recipe for Christmas in Dar es Salaam. Thanks.
Power allowing, I hope to add Mama Savage’s Snowballs to the celebratory baking for the crowd we’re spending the big day with.
Merry Christmas Dan. Wishing you and yours a very merry holiday.
RE BOTB, I agree with the substance of Dan’s advice if not the tone. He should talk to his sister, remaining firm but polite, not militant.
Another thing to consider is the “Golden Rule” (as in he who has the gold makes the rules). If mom is footing the bill for the ceremony, inviting her brother’s SO may come with some serious consequences.
“Homophobia aside (and that is what it is, not “political”), not giving someone a +1 on a wedding invite is just tacky.”
No, “+1” or “and guest” are tacky! They are much worse than tacky. Only tacky/trashy people invite someone to something as personal as a wedding when they don’t even know their names and can’t be bothered to find out. That means if you know cousin Ethel has a SO and you would like to include him/her you call to get their name (and address if it is different from cousin Ethel’s) and you invite them by name. And this tacky new custom also makes some single people (especially women) feel like they need to find a date, preferably one with a suit and a lot a patience for boring events. It’s a wedding, not a fucking prom! It’s not a celebration for couplehood, except for the couple getting married. It’s not Valentine’s Day. You shouldn’t need a date! You go, you see friends and family, you meet the new family, you dance the godawful electric slide with the old lady/geezer. And you get the hell out of there as soon as you can.
This is her wedding, and she can be a homophobic cunt if she wants to. It’s not his place to dictate the guestlist, even if she is tacky enough to invite “+1″s for the straights but not him. If the brother doesn’t like it, all he has to do is say he’s busy or can’t make it. If she is ashamed of him, she probably didn’t even want him there and just invited him out of obligation. If she wants to know what he’s busy with, he can say he had plans to spend the day with someone who loved him and wasn’t ashamed of him, that being his significant other and not his blood relatives. And if she decides she wants him and the SO at HER wedding, he should make damn sure that Mom and everyone else will try to make the SO feel damn welcome because they may have already offended him.
And yes, homophobia is political! Don’t you ever read or watch the news? But making a family power play with ultimatums about someone else’s event is not just rude, it’s pathetic. It’s pathetic to make demands to be loved and respected by your own damn family. Tell them to fuck off. You’re better off without them.
The pecans — are they whole or chopped or crushed or what ??? I need to know !
The whole “it’s the bride’s day” thing is bullshit and I am sick and tired of brides spouting that off as an excuse to act like spoiled 5-year olds. A marriage, at it’s core, is about bringing TWO people together, so it’s about the groom too, but that’s not what is at issue here. None of us know sister’s real intentions, but at the end of the day, it is WRONG to disenfranchise her own BROTHER’s relationship for whatever reason: trying to keep the peace between mom and brother, to make her guests focus only on her, etc. I wouldn’t have dared to ask someone not to bring their SO to my wedding because someone ELSE has a problem with it. I dont care if its my own mom or whoever. If mom and brother respect the sister enough, they can attend the wedding together, boyfriend at BOBT’s side, and be grown ups about it and not get into drama for ONE DAY out of two years. Gee, what a concept. Its not like this relationship is news to anyone in the family.
Drama sometimes happens at weddings no matter who is or isn’t invited, and in truth, the bride and groom are usually too busy with the bustle day to notice it. Who knows, BOBT could bring his boyfriend, and a fight between some straight family members could break out!
I wonder if mom offered to address all the invites (as my own mother offered) and thus used that as a way to prevent boyfriend from coming. Maybe sister had thought boyfriend was on the guest list all along but mom sabotaged it?
If he talks to her, and she tries to deny boyfriend’s attendance, I agree with Dan. It’s either both of them or neither. BOBT doesn’t have a problem, the asshats in his family who cannot accept his loving relationship with another human being have the problem.
If the sister doesn’t want drama at her wedding, she should choose the courthouse. Thats the only way to 99% guarantee no drama at her wedding.
Dammit Dan! Now you’ve got me missing my mom again, and It’s been 2 1/2 years.
Shortly after my mom died, I lost my pitt/mastiff I’d raised from 8 weeks old. He had just turned 10. Losing him was every bit as hard as losing my mom. As I said to my friends, “My mom never slept with me. But then, my dog never gave me any money”.
Try to not talk about dogs for the next few months, okay?
Merry Ho Ho Everyone!
Oh yeah! I forgot. Has anyone considered the possibility that MOM’s mom left her email available ON PURPOSE? Her motivation could be multi-fold She may want to let MOM & Bro know that she’s taking control of her life and might hope for their support.
Unfortunately, we/they may never know because I still agree with Dan’s advice. Don’t say anything. (At least until you get a second “clue”.)
Cheers!
Thanks for the recipe.
Weddings are expensive!!! We couldn’t afford to have all our family and friends attend our wedding if all our single friends that weren’t in long-term relationships brought a +1. The thing is, we called all of our single friends and explained that in order for us to have everyone that was special and important to us there, there will be no +1’s prior to sending out the invites so they knew exactly what was going on and why. People in long term relationships (at least six months long) got to bring their BF/GF because we knew who the hell their BF’s and GF’s were and were able to invite them by name. We didn’t want strangers at our wedding. And you know what, all of our single friends were 100% supportive and understanding, especially since we weren’t going to humiliate them by parading them in front of everyone with the hideous tossing of the bouquet and garter.
That said, sis really should have invited BOTB’s boyfriend. He needs to have a clear conversation with her saying that he really wants to be there in love and support on this major milestone in his only siblings life, but that he would also like to bring his BF. He needs to find out exactly why he wasn’t invited. Just bringing the BF will cause nothing but trouble and make him the bad guy.
Did their parents threaten to not come to the wedding if he attends with his BF? If this is the case, maybe sis just wanted so badly for her all three of her direct relatives to be there that she capitulated. It is horrible to not have your parents attend your wedding. It would put her in a horrible position to make her choose between her brother and her parents, I know some of the readers support this position, but it’s not as easy as that. A daughter can love her bigoted parents, who she can’t change, and her gay brother equally. Some would say that this is the time for her to make a stand, but when it comes down to it, all she may really want is her family to be there.
Did they threaten to not pay for it if they did not have control of the guest list? This is a horrible thing that some parents do.
Is she worried that her parents will go to the wedding but be so immature as to act all pissy or otherwise crate an uncomfortable environment at her wedding that she thought it best to avoid the situation all together by not inviting his boyfriend?
Or is the issue truly with her, that she is uncomfortable seeing her brother with his boyfriend.
If it’s one of the first two reasons, he may want to think about going at least to the ceremony as she clearly wants him there, but is caught in the precarious position of trying to make everyone happy and doing the best she can due to the circumstances to see that she can get everyone that’s important to her to be there. She should of, however, given her brother a heads up about these circumstances before the invites went out. If it’s the third reason, tell her that there is no such thing as a drama-free wedding and tell her parents to suck it up and please for the sake of her and the groom to behave like adults, as their son is bringing his boyfriend or he won’t come, if she really wants him there. If it’s the latter reason, fuck her, don’t go.
Weddings are expensive!!! We couldn’t afford to have all our family and friends attend our wedding if all our single friends that weren’t in long-term relationships brought a +1. The thing is, we called all of our single friends and explained that in order for us to have everyone that was special and important to us there, there will be no +1’s prior to sending out the invites so they knew exactly what was going on and why. People in long term relationships (at least six months long) got to bring their BF/GF because we knew who the hell their BF’s and GF’s were and were able to invite them by name. We didn’t want strangers at our wedding. And you know what, all of our single friends were 100% supportive and understanding, especially since we weren’t going to humiliate them by parading them in front of everyone with the hideous tossing of the bouquet and garter.
That said, sis really should have invited BOTB’s boyfriend. He needs to have a clear conversation with her saying that he really wants to be there in love and support on this major milestone in his only siblings life, but that he would also like to bring his BF. He needs to find out exactly why he wasn’t invited. Just bringing the BF will cause nothing but trouble and make him the bad guy.
Did their parents threaten to not come to the wedding if he attends with his BF? If this is the case, maybe sis just wanted so badly for her all three of her direct relatives to be there that she capitulated. It is horrible to not have your parents attend your wedding. It would put her in a horrible position to make her choose between her brother and her parents, I know some of the readers support this position, but it’s not as easy as that. A daughter can love her bigoted parents, who she can’t change, and her gay brother equally. Some would say that this is the time for her to make a stand, but when it comes down to it, all she may really want is her family to be there.
Did they threaten to not pay for it if they did not have control of the guest list? This is a horrible thing that some parents do.
Is she worried that her parents will go to the wedding but be so immature as to act all pissy or otherwise crate an uncomfortable environment at her wedding that she thought it best to avoid the situation all together by not inviting his boyfriend?
Or is the issue truly with her, that she is uncomfortable seeing her brother with his boyfriend.
If it’s one of the first two reasons, he may want to think about going at least to the ceremony as she clearly wants him there, but is caught in the precarious position of trying to make everyone happy and doing the best she can due to the circumstances to see that she can get everyone that’s important to her to be there. She should of, however, given her brother a heads up about these circumstances before the invites went out. If it’s the third reason, tell her that there is no such thing as a drama-free wedding and tell her parents to suck it up and please for the sake of her and the groom to behave like adults, as their son is bringing his boyfriend or he won’t come, if she really wants him there. If it’s the latter reason, fuck her, don’t go.
Seriously, ema629, why did you feel the need to ask your GUESTS if they were OK with not getting +1 invitations. If you did not know their current relationship status or the name or seriousness of their bf/gf, you could have just sent the invite to the single person only. If they called up and said they had an SO you didn’t know about blah blah blah, can they bring them, then explain your budget constraints, or just say there is no more room at the hall, sorry if they can’t make it, or invite the person if you felt like it. You didn’t owe them any explanation for not inviting a stranger to your wedding. You thought you were being polite and considerate, and then you started applying all these arbitrary criteria about judging the worthiness of their relationships with strangers to attend your wedding, like if they were older than 6 months. That was really rude! I doubt your friends said anything, but I’m sure some were offended.
This letter and Thursday’s over at Carolyn Hax are roughly the same situation – adult children overly invested in their parents’ marriages. You know who is to blame for problems in your parents’ marriages, kids? Both of them (maybe not in equal amounts, but still – both of them). You know whose business it is? Theirs. Your job as an adult is not to figure out who the bad guy is, but to come to some adult relationships with both of these flawed people who probably love you, and whom you probably love. Putting energy into determining blame is not only useless and counterproductive, it’s a waste of time, because you haven’t got all the facts. There are always things in someone else’s marriage that outsiders don’t know, and you, kids, are outsiders. Yes, it’s your family, but it’s their marriage and you don’t.know.everything.
Nobody seems to be addressing the (to me) obvious in regards to BotB. His sister is apparently NOT addressing the real elephant in the room—which is the others that have a problem with the boyfriend’s presence. If she’s afraid her mother, for example, will be upset and make a scene, she should tell HER to suck it up and deal.
It’s similar to the “problem” of gays in the military—the actual problem is heteros in the military beating up gays in the military. Maybe if sis didn’t pander to the irrational fears of the raging homophobes in her family, this wouldn’t be an issue at all.
MOM’s letter reminded me of some kids I know who grew up in a really really crappy household similar to MOM’s. Growing up in an abusive household is hard on everyone, not just the one being abused. So let’s assume MOM has some baggage. After my friends were grown, their mom had an affair and left. The kids were furious which was really hard for me to understand. Well, what made them angry was that THEY had been forced to endure this horrific life (and now they are kind of screwed up I must say). They felt like their mom should have left much earlier, which would have helped their emotional development and well-being. Just because she “stayed for the children” doesn’t mean their life was warm and fuzzy. They weren’t protected by her. Did I mention they are both kind of screwed up now? I think comments are a little harsh to MOM. And yes, the apple didn’t grow far from the tree. If you raise your sons in an abusive household and don’t stand up to your abusive spouse then you are teaching your children that abuse is okay. Yes, you are. I agree that MOM should keep his/her mouth shut. And I’m not suggesting that MOM’s Mom should have had the wherewithal to leave OR should not have the affair. But geez, don’t blame MOM for being a little putout about it. Just because he/she is all grown up, doesn’t mean s/he doesn’t have some baggage. If we didn’t have baggage, we wouldn’t need Dan!
Savage Love Reader’s sense of fairness:
Woman a few days ago: I don’t want to invite an ex-fiance to a party, mainly because when I dumped him, he moved on with life too quickly, and I had to watch. That is, no good reason.
Advice: It’s your party and invite whoever you want for whatever reason you want. Guuuuurl Power!
Gay Man Today: My gay lover of two years is not invited to a family wedding.
Advice: Fuck those fucking assholes and their fucking assholery!! You call up your sister and MAKE her invite who YOU want to THEIR party. Did I mention to fuck those fucking assholes!?!?!?! Gay people get to go where they want when they want! (/Imitating Mel Gibson in “Braveheart” now) STONEWAAAAAAALLLLLLLL!
I know that it’s easy to say this in retrospect, and I imagine I would have been shocked at first, but honestly, I kind of wish my mom would have found someone else on the side besides my dad, who sounds A HELL of a lot like the father in this letter. I mean, I work at a mental health facility now, and looking back I’m damned sure he was bipolar. I could go on and on.
I can also say that when my dad died, and I first told friends, they said, and I quote “I’m sorry… I think?” Before, during and after his funeral, relatives said “don’t you dare feel bad about leaving.” (except my crazy religious aunt who doesn’t believe in mental illness and thought I should apologize, and even she’s realized how much better off we all are without him). During the wake, my sane and cool aunt remarked that she didn’t so much remember him “touching” many lives as “impacting” with whatever object suited his fancy.
Be happy for your mom. Maybe this affair will even make her grow a pair and get out, particularly if the two of you are grown. I know Dan says that you shouldn’t reveal that you know, but if it were me? I’d have told my mom that I know when it was the right time and said “you know mom, I know dad’s a piece of shit, and we’re both grown. You did a good job, and if you want out of this marriage, we’ll understand.” Not sure what physical ailments you’re talking about (my dad was truly and honestly morbidly obese-like physically impaired), but they gots social services for those kind of things, up to and including going into a nursing home, so it isn’t like he’s going to starve to death or whatever. Only people who have been decent human beings deserve the kind of hand and foot care that I suspect your father has been getting (and is probably why he is so abusive-need to control people to ensure he gets the care he wants).
Tell your mother that if she leaves him, you’ll be fine.
@15
I am sooo tired of people comparing sexual orientation to race! It is simply not the same situation! A person who is Black, Mexican or Asian, Can NEVER be anything but that. There is typically no way to hide you Blackness if you are African American and your eyes if you are Asian. Being in the “closet” is not really an option when it comes to race, but you can hide Homosexuality at a whelm.
This is not to say that I have anything against anyone for their race or sexual orientation, I think people should be able to love or fuck whomever they choose, as long as its within the law. I just hate that comparison; I think its lame…
Oh yeah, MOM is an intrusive douche bag, and BOTB should just talk to his sister, ask her why she failed to invite his BF to her wedding. If she doesn’t like his BF because he was a douche, then respect that and leave him at home. If she doesn’t like him because he’s fucking her brother, and she think that’s her business, don’t go to the wedding. If BOTB’S BF NOT being at the wedding is more important than BOTB being at the wedding, then BOTB should take his BF to the movies on that day.
Hey, 140! (Is that you, Magnifico?) What part of the difference between ‘casual party’ and ‘Wedding Event’ do you not grasp? Besides all of it, I mean.
Dear BOtB,
I’d love for you to help us celebrate our special day!
Love,
Sis
P.S. Bring your closet.
@ 142 Being gay is frequently compared to being black or another minority, as that was that last great big group to be discriminated against. We’re all working towards discrimination against gays to end; hence the comparison. I don’t think it’s always a dead-on comparison, but the civil rights struggle part is true.
You may BE ABLE to hide being gay oh a whim (not a whelm), but you shouldn’t HAVE to; culture should be such that you shouldn’t WANT to, so it’s NBD.
Finally a set of letters where I can express some disagreement over Dan’s usually excellent advice. Well some disagreement- not much!
The only real “fact” we know is that MOM is cheating on her husband. We have one person’s perspective on the relationship so we really know very little to judge that relationship.
Maybe Dad is a POS. Maybe he failed to satisfy his wife? Maybe she failed to satisfy him? We don’t really know anything. As Dan points out, it sounds like he may have had good reason to call her a cheating @#!*% !
So Dan’s standard advice (MYOB) is sound even though he assumes the perspective of the letter writer.
But the letter from the gay guy was a call for help- not a call for some dramatic @#!*% political action game.
It is the SISTER’s wedding. I would have told the butt muncher he can make a political statement at his own wedding (commitment ceremony or whatever). He should call Sis and tell him his problem. He should even tell her, as Dan advises, that he can’t go to an event like that without his lover. BUT if the sister doesn’t want the drama he should wish her the best AND if he must protest for political reasons then he should send a nice and personal wedding present.
You may not remember your best friend growing up or even your first blowjob- but you will ALWAYS remember who supported you at your wedding. This is not about gay rights, it is about love for a sister.
I would think the least you can do is to show up for the wedding itself, exchange hugs, and leave gracefully before the reception.
The advice reminds me of some of the radical feminists screaming they will never put a dick inside them as a protest against rape. Nobody- well almost nobody- supports rape and few support outright discrimination against gays. But the place for protest is on the street and the ballot box, not in bed with your husband- or your sister’s wedding.
Advice from a sex advice columnist who happens to be gay can be great if his advice is as good as Dans- but snowballs from a gay guy? No thanks! LMFAO.
@146: “But the place for protest is on the street and the ballot box, not in bed with your husband- or your sister’s wedding.”
Oh for fuck’s sake.
The brother doesn’t want to “protest”. He doesn’t want to make a political statement. He’s not planning to show up at the wedding in leather chaps and a harness, waving a rainbow flag and chanting “We’re here, we’re queer!” All he wants is to attend his sister’s wedding with the person he loves. Just like everybody else.
Denying him the right to do so is the protest and the political statement – one opposed to equality.
Sounds like MOM has a little bit of Dad in him. And I don’t mean that as an insult but as a warning-be conscious of this so you don’t drive away the people who may care about you and vice-versa. I speak from personal experience. Oh, and for the self-sacrificing mothers who stay in horrible marriages “for the sake of the family”, PLEASE DON’T!!! Again, personal experience.
If family places itself in importance before the development of loving, nurturing romantic relationships, then the great work of humanity is over.
Parents sacrifice resources (material, psychological, etc) in order to provide an environment for their children to develop, prosper, and potentially, for those offspring having developed, to have the opportunity to provide the same for their own children, one day.
Families should accept the dying nature of the role they play.
I would never choose family over my mate. The fact that a family would dare pose such an ultimatum to its scions speaks of the toxic ways that families insinuate themselves, even today, in things far beyond their right to moderate.
Nowhere in BOTB’s letter does he state that his partner is specifically UNINVITED. Could it be that his sis simply assumes they’ll both be coming? Or maybe she didn’t have the guts to put the partner’s name on the invite? Whatever, they should just go, and act like the normal couple that they are. Mom and the other homophobes in the family won’t like it but the fence sitters will learn that a gay couple is no big deal unless the haters choose to make it so.
@145
I agree that no one should HAVE to hide their sexuality, race, or religion. But some people would if it was possible, just to be accepted. What I’m saying is, Homosexuals have that option, while certain ethnicities don’t. I think that the comparison is weak and lame. It comes off like you’re saying “They get to be black and Mexican, so why can’t I be gay?” I just don’t like it, is all I’m saying. To each his own….
RE BOTB and “The Sacred *Wedding*”. My 2C:
This is why I never went through the elaborate ceremony. All the posters defending sister and HER DAY. I say Fuck That!
Instead of a chance for *family* to get together to join two people and two families, American weddings have become an ever-expanding, expensive, stress-filled, politically charged, bride-centric drama.
They do nothing positive for couple relationships, marriages, or family dynamics.
Women [and I am one, BTW] who look upon this as their one chance at a star turn need to get real. I don’t think I’ve met a woman yet who didn’t look back on their elaborate wedding and wished they’d saved the money.
Wedding occasions (if you have to have one) need to go back to being simpler, cheaper, and less formal, focussed on something enjoyable and welcoming for all participants – especially all immediate family members, gay or straight.
Life is about *people*, People, not circus exhibitions.
#59—Also, make sure your balls are very, very cold (the cookie ones, not the others…unless you’re into that…)
Sounds like pfefferneusse, which would be a spice-cookie version of this or Russian Teacakes.
MoM>>Quit snooping and go to your room! You’re grounded, just like that time for being in mom and dad’s bedroom where you were told not to go!
BOTB—Anyone ever watch “Bridezillas”? Oh, those bitches think it IS ‘all about them’. If so, then why do the rest of those people, including the groom, have to be there?
Geeze I wish Dan would run for President. Talk about the answer to my prayers.