I’m a 27-year-old divorced woman. I married the first man I ever had sex with, and we had a very vanilla sex life. He refused to try any play with dominant/submissive roles. My fantasies have always involved my submission.

My current boyfriend is very open and experienced. With him, I’ve tried being held down during sex, light bondage, dirty talk, gentle choking, etc. The sex is AMAZING. Here’s my problem: A few nights ago while we were watching TV and cuddling, he started to stroke my body. I asked if I could touch myself and if he would keep watching TV while I did it. I had the most intense orgasm of my life while he ignored me.

I said that I’d like to explore it more if he’s open to it (he is). My concern is that this submission might spill over into the relationship. I am NOT submissive in the relationship; we’re very much equals. I know that he sees it as a sexual kink and is very GGG, but I’m concerned that it could lead to him thinking that I want to be ignored in other aspects of the relationship.

Seeing as this is my second relationship and the first time I’ve been able to indulge my submissive desires, I might be worrying over nothing. I’m feeling like an emotionally leotarded, sexually repressed teenager.

Scared Of Submission

Keep talking to your boyfriend, leotard, and you’ll be just fine.

At first it struck me as odd that you would be troubled by a thoroughly sweet moment of soft-focus, fuzzy-bunnies dom/sub intimacy and not by the other, arguably more intense, SM games you’ve been playing with your boyfriend. There you are getting held down, tied up, talked down-and-dirty to, and “gently choked” (gentle or not, choking is a bad idea)… and you’re worried that being ignored while you masturbate takes you into new and dangerously submissive territory?

After a moment’s thought, I realized why this particular game troubled you so much: All of that other stuff took place in obviously sexual contexts, i.e., it happened in the bedroom while you were getting it on. This game—a game you initiated—began during a moment of not specifically sexual intimacy. You were cuddling, you were watching TV, you weren’t having sex. If dom/sub games can break out when you’re just sitting there watching TV, who’s to say that dom/sub games can’t break out when you’re doing the dishes? Or at the movies? Or having dinner with your parents?

You can have the dom/sub dynamics you enjoy without having to worry about them slopping over into other areas of your life, SOS, by being assertive, communicative, and vigilant. If you can ask a man to ignore you and keep watching TV while you masturbate, SOS, you should be able to say this to him: “Being submissive turns me on when we’re having sex—and the minute I started masturbating, we were having sex—but if you treat me like anything other than your equal when we’re not having sex, Sir, I will kick your fucking ass.”

My guy wants to come in my mouth. I am fine with the act, but he produces a high volume of ejaculate, like three tablespoons’ worth. The only thing I can think of is getting him most of the way there and letting him come on my face. Any advice on how I can do this for him?

GGG Sex Partner

I measured out three tablespoons of half-and-half, GSP, and you couldn’t drown a kitten in it, much less a GGG sex partner. An adult should be able to knock that back without much trouble.

Give the man a blowjob, GSP, and let him come in your mouth. If there’s too much ejaculate to swallow, or if you can’t manage to precisely time swallows to spurts, allow the excess ejaculate to run out of the corners of your mouth. If you don’t want to swallow any ejaculate, close the top of your throat when he begins to come and spit it all out—into your hand or onto a towel—or just let it run down and over his dick once he’s done.

I recently started college, and I met an amazing woman. Call her Jennifer. She’s talented artistically, poetically, and with a blade. I met her at the Renaissance Club, and the first time I saw her at Fight Circle I was intrigued. Older club members often adopt new club members. Jennifer and her girlfriend, Robin, adopted me as their daughter. A couple weeks afterward, we decided to have a pet/Mistresses relationship between the three of us. I was content with this because it would allow me to get closer to Jennifer. One night, she and I “slept” together, and soon afterward, Jennifer decided to put the pet/Mistress relationship on hold because she didn’t want to drag me into her relationship drama.

I’m not sure what to do: Should I wait for them to break up (they have been having arguments lately and Robin still isn’t aware that Jennifer and I “slept” together), wait for Robin to allow us to have a pet/Mistress relationship again, or just move on?

Ex-Pet Lesbian

Sword fights, adoptions, pets, Mistresses, faux-incest/pseudo-bestiality role-playing games—a lot has changed at Liberty University since I was an undergrad. Look, EPL, if Jennifer and Robin are falling apart, step back and be patient. That way you won’t be held responsible by the rest of Renaissance Club once you and Jennifer resume your pet/Mistress/mommy/daughter/whatever routine.

I am living with a man whom I deeply love. I recently noticed that he is watching porn when I am not around. My self-esteem crashed when I learned this because he often claimed to be too tired to have sex. At the same time, I noticed that since he started watching porn, we have had a lot more sex. Can you help me sort this out so I can bandage up my wounds?

Bummed By Porn

I get lots of letters from women—and some from men—complaining about “too tired for sex” partners sneaking off to watch porn. I had to read your letter twice to make sure I wasn’t seeing things: Your partner used to claim he was too tired for sex, which presumably bummed you out, but now that he’s watching a little porn, you’re having a lot more sex… and you’re still bummed out?

He’s using porn to get his juices flowing, BBP, and those juices are ultimately flowing into you. Perhaps you should be grateful to porn for the way it’s improved your sex life.

I’m a straight male who skipped the sleeping around phase and went straight to long-term boyfriend. Now in my 30s, I find myself wanting to make up for lost time. I’ve talked to my girlfriend of eight years about threesomes, arrangements, swinging—anything to sleep with other women and still hold on to my relationship. She has a low sex drive and doesn’t want to waste what little she has on other people. I’m stuck: Part of me thinks I can’t be happy sexually having never had a sexually adventurous phase, and part of me fears that I’m giving up a loving relationship for what others tell me isn’t a big deal anyway.

Stuck

Break up, I guess.

mail@savagelove.net

188 replies on “Savage Love”

  1. @98 – you’re saying no one in the SL audience is where I was a year ago? Unwilling to let my husband have sex with other people, unwilling to leave him.

    But with the help of my husband’s honesty, I was able to face the fact that it wasn’t about me. He loved me, I was great, and he still wanted sex with other people.

    How can you be sure there’s no one like that, part of a marriage like mine, out there listening?

  2. I’m just sick of the lesson our culture teaches women: if your husband wants sex with other women, then he doesn’t love you, and you should leave him.

    If most men will want sex with other women (maybe they won’t all act on it, but the desire is there) and if you buy the line that that means he doesn’t love you, then no wonder marriages end in divorce so often. Middle-aged women feel abandoned by their husbands, and in turn they abandon their husbands, leaving everyone unhappy and trying to support two households instead of one.

    If women could just see that it’s normal for their husband to want sex with other people, and it doesn’t mean they’ve been abandoned, or that they’re worthless or unsexy… I just think people could be a smidge happier in life.

  3. @EricaP…

    Then why are you throwing women under the bus by suggesting that they exclusively need to change? And why are you telling men that honesty is all that’s required of them? Relationships are complex. People (women, in the case of your targeted audience) aren’t going to stop feeling betrayed because you suggest it may not be reasonable. Emotions are not reasonable reactions, they are emotional. And ultimatums (ultimata?) and non-negotiables (a la your comments in #11 and #15) are just as selfish and inconsiderate as lying.

    If you need to generalize, how about this: People (men, women, children, and everything in between) want security in the things that are important to them. In this case, their relationships. If someone is trying to execute a change that may make the other/s feel insecure, don’t you think actually addressing those insecurities is way more teamwork-focused than unapologetic honesty? Yes, honesty is super-important. But so is compassion. And compromise.

    Ultimately your advice comes across as what it is: amateur. You have the benefit of your experience and perspective…. a sample-size of 1. Again, it’s great that your experience opening up your marriage has been positive, and you want to help people learn the same lessons you’ve learned. But your context is unique, as everyone’s is, and you just have not identified the biases you bring to the table (what we in the biz call “Values Clarification”).

  4. Dan! Quite a few people here point out that the pill can have a very serious negative effect on the sex drive.
    In fact, Dan, I recently picked up a book that you published 15 years ago (by the way, on the photo in that book you look exactly the same as now! Good for you!). So, in it you reprint your answer to a young girl who is thinking to start on the pill and wondering about its side effects. You tell her all the good stuff, like her breast will get bigger and she will be happier overall, etc.
    Well, I started taking the pill in my late 30s. I came from a country, Russia, where its use was not widespread, so I was very excited to start it! Sadly, in a few years I started getting a feeling that sex does not excite me any more. Being now in my 40s, I thought – that’s it, I am so old, I am pre-menopausal! When I asked my doctor, she agreed. She said – just a couple years more for you! (The doctor was probably in the same condition, because she was almost happy to greet me into menopausal realm!)
    Naturally, our sex life with my husband became worse and worse, compounding other relationship issues and soon we got separated. At that point I stopped taking the pill, for the lack of need… And guess what? It all came back at once, and in a couple months I became as horny as I was when I was young! I started wearing red and looking at men straight in the eye.
    Is it a sad story or a happy one? I guess it’s happy for me, but sooo bad for hundreds of other women who take the pill and may be in my position!!! Now I am reconnected with my husband, but it took a few years. During that time which were my “cougar” phase, I’ve been with so many young men, in their 20s and 30s, whose wives/girlfriends don’t have any sex drives! These are all good men who were forced to cheat, their lives are so miserable! I suppose many women who went on the pill in their teens/early 20s didn’t even have a chance to become real sexual beings… True, the pill gets the pregnancy rate down but at what cost?!
    I will never suggest the pill to my teenage daughter. Thankfully there are other options available, such as safer IUDs.
    Dan, it would be such a service to humanity if you could bring this to everyone attention in your column. I bet you are the only one who would dare to do so!!

  5. Offfwhite, what are you recommending I tell the cheaters or would-be cheaters I meet? They have made up their minds that they’re going to solve their problems by having the sex they want, and lying to their wives. There are lots of these men. Lots. I don’t sleep with them; are you saying I also can’t advise them to be honest?

    As for the emotional reactions, yes, they need to be recognized. But not pandered to. There are resources like the Ethical Slut, which helped me process my jealousy and figure out what I really wanted from my husband, so I could ask for that.

    If someone tried to keep her partner from doing other activities with friends, that person would be called controlling. But our culture says sex is different; sex is only for the one person you love. So if he wants sex with someone else, then he no longer loves you. I call bullshit.

    But I also call bullshit on the men who say that they are protecting their wives (whom they love) by lying to them.

  6. I think Stuck has some other issues than a girlfriend with a low sex drive. He is in his thrities and has been with this gal for 8 years. I’m guessing his desire to get it on with others has more to do with a stalled relationship rather than unfulfilled fanatasies. I agree with Dan, break up with her and go do what you need to do. Maybe your girlfriend can find a guy that excites her more and stimulates her libido; instead of the guy who instead of trying to help his girlfriend and be what she needs is more concerned on how he can get some.

  9. @EricaP

    I recommend you share your experience for what it is… your experience. And leave the advice delivery to those who are qualified to give it and/or solicited for it.

    (P.S. You may also want to re-read the Ethical Slut… you seem to have missed the theme of individuality stressed throughout. Not to mention the validation of female sexual expression.)

  10. Fine. I’ve never denied that I’m just speaking from my experience. I’ve never claimed a mantle of social-work (oh, excuse me, “human services”) authority. People who don’t gain anything from my advice are free to ignore it, the same as any other poster on Slog.

    It would have been helpful to me last March to know that someone else had gone through what I was going through and survived. That’s why I post.

  11. @EricaP

    Culture doesn’t say that sex is different than all other activities, nature dictates that sex is different and special because it’s the reason we’re all here. As much as you want it to be, sex will never be tennis. Sorry.

    I’m married and my husband and I *both* find ourselves feeling attracted to other people sometimes and we’re both honest about it. We also know that for us, giving in to those temptations would lead to way more stress than it would be worth. The security we get from saving sex only for our relationship is ultimately more important to both of us than being able to fuck around with people we care about a lot less than each other. This is the case for a lot of people.

  12. @Offwhite and Amanda, Thank you!! You both explained how I was feeling about her comments much more eloquently than I did!! Exactly, everybody has a right to their own experiences. You have to remember that they are your experiences though, there’s no need to generalize for everyone.

  13. @Erica P: I am also a woman in an open marriage. I realized some time ago that I was nonmonogamous, and it took me a long time to work up the courage to tell my husband that I was interested in sleeping with other people. It took a year of talking about it and letting him think about it on his own, but he eventually came around to embrace the idea and now we both have happy additional relationships, and are even happier together.

    I’m with you in advocating honesty for guys like Stuck. He clearly needs a different kind of relationship. I don’t agree with you that he should follow it up by sleeping with someone before his girlfriend is on board with the idea. It took a really long time for my husband and I to agree on how to open our relationship, but it was worth waiting for him to be 100% on board with it before taking any action. If Stuck has tried everything and his girlfriend is just never going to come around, then he should break up with her. Saying, “Well, I’m going to fuck other people, you can leave if you want” doesn’t seem respectful to me at all.

  16. @100: Also, Elizabeth Lloyd’s research on female sexuality and orgasms found that there’s no correlation between orgasmic ability and high sex drive! So even very orgasmic women don’t necessarily have a high sex drive, and some non-orgasmic women do.

    Yes, the whole thing is weird, and I wish everyone could have a rich and fulfilling sexuality.

  17. Thanks, Lori E. What my husband actually said, was “I’m going to fuck other women. Please don’t leave.”

    Maybe that was disrespectful; it hurt like hell. But his honesty made it possible for me to continue to trust him, and otherwise I don’t see how that would be possible.

    But, you know what, here’s an olive branch:

    I kind of knew this about him from when we were dating. Two months into our relationship, he asked if he could sleep with an ex-girlfriend, visiting from another part of the country. I said yes, and cried all night, alone over at my place. Then we had two years of dating, and 14 years of marriage, during which time we were both monogamous, though he liked porn and strip-clubs, and that was fine with me.

    All this to say, when he explained what he wanted, last spring – it wasn’t as completely out of the blue as it would have been for some other couples. I don’t know if monogamy / nonmonogamy is an orientation, something innate that you can’t change… but if it is, I guess I sort of knew it about my husband from that time with the ex-girlfriend. I knew he had a wandering eye, even if we joked about “looking but not touching” during the first 14 years of marriage. That joke’s not so funny any more.

    So, maybe he married me in part because he thought, in the end, I’d be able to accept his wandering eye and even his wandering dick. And now I have.

    But if he were someone else, someone who had sworn that he could only love one person and could only have sex with the one person he loved… as perhaps the men in your lives have done… then I can see that it would feel right to end the relationship as soon as he talked about having sex with someone else. I don’t know. That wasn’t right for me, but I can see how other people would feel differently.

  18. @58, what makes you assume that? All she said was that her self esteem was crushed because he watched porn and that they’re having more sex. She never said anything about whether he was watching demeaning porn, or that they were having sex that she didn’t enjoy. Judging by the rest of the letter, I’d definitely expect her to mention that the sex they were having is bad for her, if it is. You’re taking what she said and running with it in a direction that she never points.

  19. re: Stuck
    “I’m a straight male who skipped the sleeping around phase and went straight to long-term boyfriend. Now in my 30s, I find myself wanting to make up for lost time… She has a low sex drive and doesn’t want to waste what little she has on other people. I’m stuck: Part of me thinks I can’t be happy sexually having never had a sexually adventurous phase, …
    Stuck
    Break up, I guess.”

    I’m in a similar situation- never dated, virgin until 21, first gf ended up several years living together, another long- term relationship since with someone I’m still friends with, but in retrospect, was likely quite the unintentionally emotionally abusive type… and ‘cold’ in bed… and the clincher, I’m now 7yr sober after an extensive abusive relationship with vodka, mostly…
    now I’m 40 and feel I need to “make up for lost time”…

    I’m not in a relationship now, but i do want to append onto Dan’s advice if I may:

    do NOT try to date any chicks in your age range: they will most likely be ready-mades (w/kid already, established in job/pattern/lifestyle/child rearing/divorce proceedings/what have you) or sharpening their talons to get an until-death-do-us-part grip on the next ‘whoever’ comes their way

    this is the feeling I’ve had in my experiences
    women my age range (I’ve had a physical attraction to) are just as I’ve said; the few low-mid twentysomethings I’ve had some normal social interactions with, with whom I’ve felt there was something between us..
    well until just recently I’d dismissed these interactions because I felt some guilt of impropriety…
    but I’ve decided ‘fuck that’- and to just go ahead and try to
    (by impropriety I mean, their emotional immaturity, doe-y-eyed-ness, etc, not legally inappropriate)

    if you dump your gf, set in your mind to use your age advantage – not to emphasize your inexperience- and start hitting on those daft college barely able to drink girls at the coffee bar that you see pass you that immature “oohh cute older guy” glance and slaughter them with your emotional maturity

    even better- after getting to know some girl for a bit, cop to her the absolute truth! your story is gold to impressionable young female minds!!
    here’s your story:
    “hi there coffee shop girl I met a week ago and’ve Facebooked with since, let me tell you the truth now- honestly, I’m not very experienced… I just broke up with gf who was my first… took my virginity… honestly I’m just trying to make up for lost time…”

    9 out of 10 the girl answers something thusly:
    “well wow I’m so glad you’re being honest- you know, I’ve been with a couple guys, but they were all immature jerks… not like you… you’ve been so nice to me, let me help you out…
    as a matter of fact, I suspected something since we’ve started talking… I even talked it over with my hot roommate with whom I’d had some lesbian experimentation, we’ve even talked about a threesome maybe with some honest mature and deserving guy”

    I mean, not that this is a verbatim guarantee- but I met a girl on FB, ended up on a long weekend together, I was perfectly honest… and she f-d my brains out- best sex I’d ever had- seriously (not that there’s much experience to measure against, but), I was 39 and had never really even gotten a blowjob before (no, 5 seconds of oral play followed by unfulfilling woman-mounting-me does NOT constitute bj ex-gfs
    my first sexual experience at 21 was a full-fledged bj by virginity-taking gf, and I barely remember much other than sheer panic and awe at what a nice bj it must be b/c she swallowed
    and then this one at age 39-40
    whoopee

    if you split w/ gf, hit the coffee shops, sharpen and retract the claws, and look for the girls no older than 25, max, given your age
    look for the chicks who are either easily manipulated, sexually charged, or both
    does this sound mean? you betcha- fuckit
    don’t pander- look at every chick you’re attracted to like you’re about to rip her clothes off
    either they’ll be creeped/scared off (probably because of a now hormonal mothering protective instinct), Wichita will be good- because it’ll make more room for your prey: those meandering witless, hot bods, thrift store retro-80s leggings- yadda yadda
    pounce on that shit- chew and spit it out

    right now with your current gf the “low sex drive” bs is probably largely due to her going through some experiences like I’ve just described- and she probably loved every minute of it

    play nice- but get out there and ravage some pussy

  20. There are many valuable ways to have a relationship.

    When anyone insists that their way of having a relationship is “inevitable,” “must be that way,” etc, I wonder what the problem is, exactly. Because there is a huge difference between “My open relationship and nonmonogamy have been very fulfilling for my partner and I, and maybe if given a chance others would find it to be so also,” and “All men have *needs* (not wants, not attractions) to have sex with multiple women concurrently and all women should recognize that and accept it. It’s inevitable! My relationship is this way and YOURS MUST BE TOO!”

    It’s really no much more appealing than allegedly straight people who insist that gay sex is so appealing it should be banned or else everyone will do it, when BEING STRAIGHT IS INEVITABLE AND NATURAL AND YOU MUST BE TOO!

    Or people who insist that monogamy and lifelong marriage is the ONLY WAY AND YOU PEOPLE WHO INSIST ON MULTIPLE PARTNERS ARE UNNATURAL AND FAILING TO RECOGNIZE YOUR TRUE SELF!

    Or married people who insist that SINGLE PEOPLE MUST GET MARRIED NOW BECAUSE INEVITABLY YOU WILL!

    People who insist that their relationship style is RIGHT, not just for them, but for everyone else, and that their own sexual desires are INEVITABLY the sexual desires of everybody else, usually are trying to overcompensate for their own unhappiness with their relationship.

    Seriously. If you’re happy being nonmonogamous, that’s great. But when you insist that every man really needs to be nonmonogamous and every woman who doesn’t like it needs to accept it because you did…..well, meh.

  21. There are many valuable ways to have a relationship.

    When anyone insists that their way of having a relationship is “inevitable,” “must be that way,” etc, I wonder what the problem is, exactly. Because there is a huge difference between “My open relationship and nonmonogamy have been very fulfilling for my partner and I, and maybe if given a chance others would find it to be so also,” and “All men have *needs* (not wants, not attractions) to have sex with multiple women concurrently and all women should recognize that and accept it. It’s inevitable! My relationship is this way and YOURS MUST BE TOO!”

    It’s really no much more appealing than allegedly straight people who insist that gay sex is so appealing it should be banned or else everyone will do it, when BEING STRAIGHT IS INEVITABLE AND NATURAL AND YOU MUST BE TOO!

    Or people who insist that monogamy and lifelong marriage is the ONLY WAY AND YOU PEOPLE WHO INSIST ON MULTIPLE PARTNERS ARE UNNATURAL AND FAILING TO RECOGNIZE YOUR TRUE SELF!

    Or married people who insist that SINGLE PEOPLE MUST GET MARRIED NOW BECAUSE INEVITABLY YOU WILL!

    People who insist that their relationship style is RIGHT, not just for them, but for everyone else, and that their own sexual desires are INEVITABLY the sexual desires of everybody else, usually are trying to overcompensate for their own unhappiness with their relationship.

    Seriously. If you’re happy being nonmonogamous, that’s great. But when you insist that every man really needs to be nonmonogamous and every woman who doesn’t like it needs to accept it because you did…..well, meh.

  23. EricaP: I don’t think that people should automatically end a relationship if one person wants to be non-monogamous, obviously, since I’m in an open relationship. I do think that people can be honest about what they want without taking action until their partner is in agreement, that’s all I was trying to say.

  24. @119: As one forty-something male to another, let me say: you sound like a fucking creep. Women of all ages should run, not walk, away from you. Get some therapy to deal with your deeply entrenched misogyny.

  25. @123 — that worked for you, which is awesome. And in some sense it’s what we did too: he told me that it was going to happen, and then we talked and talked and talked. And the first time he was going to have sex with someone without me along, he stopped when I texted to say that I couldn’t deal. But he never said, “I’ll wait until you’re okay with it,” leaving it up to me to decide the timing. It was more like “what do you need in order to be okay with it? Let’s figure it out.”

    Also, in line with my olive branch above @117, it’s probably relevant that we have a D/s relationship.

  26. @125: Yes, it’s extremely relevant, especially if it’s D/s in areas other than strictly sex. (Even if it’s sexually-related, but not just physical actions.) D/s relationships have different dynamics, and submitting to relationship changes, as well as expressing a prerogative to one-sided relationship changes, carry a different (and much more positive/sexual) charge, than they would in a non-D/s relationship.

  27. @8

    If it hasn’t been mentioned already: Homegrown. That is the name of a production company that specializes in amateur porn.

    While some of it is truly terrible, and some of it may be exploitative, it is often real people actually having fun, and is hot.

  28. Dan The Man!!!

    1. THANK YOU SO MUCH for helping me with my log out problem!!! I was on a computer at a local public library. xoxoxoxoxo

    2. Great advice to GSP. I’m taking note. Here’s another dumb question: I have a serious gag reflex when seated in the dentist’s chair. Swallowing come–even in little baby-kitty 3 TB. amounts–has been difficult for me, too. like GSP.
    So…uh…(I know I’m walking RIGHT into this!)because I have a late July birthday, and am therefore quite leonine, does this make me a leotard, too (remember–I said it was going to be a dumb question)?

  29. Dan

    I know it’s probably never going to seem like a good idea to tell people that it’s fine to choke each other. But having listened to your podcasts and read a lot of your archive, I know that the reason you fear all breath play is based on Jay Wiseman’s “expert” opinion. Jay, despite writing some good bdsm books, is not an expert on this subject, has no credible evidence to back up his position, and goes out of his way to ignore the overwhelming evidence that there are ways to practice breath play that are as safe as other sex acts that we don’t think about twice. A truly enormous number of judo/bjj/mma participants are choking each other silly all over the world without anyone suffering ill effects. Those interested in breath play should go to some practices with these people, and it’ll work out fine.

  30. People rarely do judo in private bedrooms, after the use of alcohol & drugs, with people whose health status they may not know very well.

    Jay has in fact been hired as an expert in homicide trials, where the defendants claimed to have just been doing consensual breath play.

  31. EricaP has been a thread Nazi on this post. To EricaP: Chill out and stop monopolizing the thread when it’s obvious that most people don’t want to hear your advice and generalizations. Some people come to these threads to see the advice of many people, not wade through your defensive posturing. Be in an open relationship and enjoy it (I think more people could benefit from opening up), but stop burying other posts in your haste to dole out advice and opinions.

  32. 119

    Resentful misogynist much? I don’t doubt that such an approach would get you laid with young, “easily manipulated and sexually charged” girls – but quantity is not always quality. I will readily concede that large amounts of sex along with variety will yield experience, but this does not warrant the complete disrespect towards and objectification of women as you clearly described here. I am appalled.

    Instead of preying upon young girls who don’t know any better, guys like stuck (if he were to break up) should honestly associate with emotionally mature women (cut out the 25 and under bullshit, age is irrelevant) who know what they want and are seeking similar nsa relationships. Keep in mind that women sexually peak in their 30s – at which point they generally have more experience, know what they want, and know how to better pleasure the men they sleep with.

    Mutual respect is necessary, always.

  33. Erica P.: Jay HAS been hired as an expert witness for more than one trial. Sadly, that’s not the same thing as actually being an expert. And no, people don’t do judo in the bedroom. But a choke is a choke, whether you do it on the mats or in bed. And sure, you shouldn’t do it with someone while you’re on drugs. But that goes for a lot of things, don’t you think?

  34. @134, being accepted by a court as an expert makes him an expert. Courts, do, of course, find experts on each side of many issues, so it doesn’t prove he’s right, but he is an expert.
    – EricaP, thinking of changing my name to EricaThreadNazi (thanks for the idea @132!), as part of my transition to full-time Slog troll.

  36. Is it just me or do other people want to slap women who don’t have any confidence in themselves and their own sexual appeal?

    Who gives a fuck if your boyfriend looks at porn? How does that make you less sexy? Those are pictures. You are a woman. Or maybe one who is too dumb to get that.

    How about this… YOU look at porn. Send him links of shit you want to try.

    Stop being so insecure.

  38. Erica P.: we’re going to just have to disagree here. I don’t for a minute believe that convincing courts that Jay should be allowed to present expert rather than lay testimony is the same as him having real expertise in the matter. He’s not a doctor, much less a doctor with special expertise in the matter, he’s not an accomplished submission grappler or someone who would have a lot of knowledge about the application of chokes…as best I can tell he’s a former paramedic and a non-practicing graduate of a non-accredited law school.

    But I guess what we call him is less important than the fact that he has no credible evidence to support his ideas. What he does is fear mongering, plain and simple. His constant refrain that he knows no way that breath play could be practiced with zero chance of death is meaningless given that he never compares the risk of death with that of any other activity. People die every year walking up stairs, taking a shower, and having sex in the missionary position with the lights off. He doesn’t go out of his way to claim (with what would be equal truth) that there’s no way to do these things with zero chance of death, or mention any number of sports or recreations that carry a more meaningful risk of death or injury.

    On the other side of things, we have a population of hundreds of thousands (at least!) of grapplers of one sort or another who apply chokes on each other many times a week (both cooperatively to practice technique, and during resistant sparrng), occasionally even to the point of unconsciousness, and NONE of them are suddenly dropping dead. Within this population are lots of different body types, lots of different ages, lots of different fitness levels. And in the over 100 years of judo players training like this there seem to be no known deaths. That tells me that there’s a population doing chokes right, and who can be learned from.

    There are also studies suggesting that these judo players are, unlike boxers, not suffering any brain damage. To give two examples:

    1. J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 1991 Dec;31(4):605-10. Judo and choking: EEG and regional cerebral blood flow findings. Rodriguez G, Francione S, Gardella M, Marenco S, Nobili F, Novellone G, Reggiani E, Rosadini G. Institute of Neurophysiopathology, University of Genoa, Italy.

    2: Ital J Neurol Sci. 1998 Dec;19(6):367-72. Long-term effects of boxing and judo-choking techniques on brain function. Rodriguez G, Vitali P, Nobili F.

  39. @140 If I point out that people have died, leading to the court cases in which Jay has testified… will you just say that those people must have been doing it wrong? Jay notes that people also die of similar issues (such as vagal-induced sudden cardiac arrest) when they are by themselves straining during a bowel movement. But in that case, there won’t be homicide charges.

  40. @140 Forgot to say, also, in most of the other situations with equal chance of death (sports, car accidents, etc), you are much more likely to have witnesses who can confirm your story.

  41. @129 aunt grizelda: you have to start desensitizing your gag reflex. Start brushing your tongue when you brush your teeth. Start on the borderline of okay and gagging.
    Slooowly work yourself around and back. Also, most people don’t swallow at the same time they’re being gagged. You pull back a little to swallow.

    Sticking your tongue out as far as it will go also helps with the gag reflex.

    Good luck!

  42. Sleeping around isn’t really all that great, but you wouldn’t know that if you never tried it. You want to try it, you should definitely try it.

    Dump the current. It’s going to hurt a lot. Start getting used to the idea. You’ll be happier in the end.

  44. to Stuck:

    I’m 25 currently and still a virgin (male). I think when I find a girlfriend it’s gonna be long-term, if not for life.

    I would also like to have a sexually adventurous phase but I accept it’s probably not going to happen.
    This “having an adventurous phase” is just an invention of recent times anyway. For most of history, people got married to whomever their parents or whoever else was in charge chose and that was that.

  46. @146: It’s true that people have more control now over when and to whom they get married, but that doesn’t mean that during “most of history” no one slept around or had multiple partners. Read some history or biographies (as early in history as you like) and you will find affairs and mistresses, trial marriages, children born out of wedlock, and scandalous sexual “deviancy.” It is not true that sexual adventure is a new invention. Marriage, as an institution, has only ever had as much influence on sexual activity as the people involved choose to give it.

  48. EricaP

    Good point! But no, I wouldn’t say that they were doing it “wrong,” I’d say that it’s highly unlikely that they were doing what you could reasonably call breath play at all. It’s my impression that Jay has been called in on cases where there are lots of suggestive signs and evidence of outright violent assaults and/or domestic abuse, with more injuries than mere damage to the neck. They’re not cases where it’s credible that consensual play took place, where it looks at all like the person putting on the hurting was actually interested in the welfare of the victim, and taking any steps to look out for them. Jay has been brought on as a hired gun, so that the defendant’s lawyer could get him to say no, he didn’t necessarily viciously attack that woman and then strangle her for minutes at a time: it could have been just a few seconds of consensual death play, and his partner just suddenly dropped dead.

    And technically, Jay is right: it’s possible to imagine physical processes by which someone, especially someone with some serous medical issues, could suddenly drop dead. It is theoretically possible. It just doesn’t ever happen to the unbelievably enormous population of judo players/bjj’ers/mma’ers etc. Which is why I think maybe they (well, we, I should say) are onto something.

  50. Inexperienced straight guys usually suck at sex. Why would any woman want to sleep with Stuck? Maybe he’s a shitty lay or a shitty boyfriend.

    “I’m going to sleep with other people and I hope you don’t leave” = “Good luck with that, Jerk, and don’t bother coming back.”

    Everyone wants to sleep with other people. In monogamous relationships, you don’t sleep with other people because you respect your partner and the relationship. The rules are different for open relationships and D/s relationships. Who would have thought that different relationships could be different-wow.

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