Savage Love

1. I am pleased I found your site. My mother was involved in both the Civil Rights movement and a member of NOW, (chapter founder).
   I am fortunate to have a gay son, and approach the issue of gay marriage, (rights) as secular. I’m amazed that in America it was non-religious Deists who fought for the right of religious freedom, yet religions feel a need for power over others. My best to you, and thank you for what you do.

2. Please keep making it hot for all those wimped out faker preachers and false prophets. We talked about it in the 80’s, (remember Berlin Dan?) and all those frustrated half-straight men are trying it again. Thanks for standing up to them on Larry King and keep on spouting the truth.

   rik maverik (Sacramento, Berlin)

3. Isn’t Stephen’s uncle’s husband actually his uncle? I mean, that’s how families work. A man is the uncle of his spouse’s nieces and nephews.

   I can see now why everyone is so up in arms about this gay marriage. If gays start getting married will uncles become aunties and aunties become 2nd cousins once removed, it’s going to make institution of marriage very confusing. What will we call people? Will we still be able to redraw the family tree? Will straight people still be able to get divorced, or will gay people be setting too good of an example, and it would be an embarassment to straight-kind if more straights got divorced than gays.

   So you ask, “What will I tell my child when a classmate has two uncles?” The answer is your classmate’s uncle is gay and is married to another man who is also called his uncle. That seems simple enough.

   You know I have two uncles who are married… just not to each other. Actually one of them is divorced. I’m not sure if he is gay, I’ve never thought to ask.

4. Dan – i’m a 60 year old straight guy (feel obligated to mention that). I’m writing as I watch you on Larry King. I’ve seen and heard you speak eloquently on this subject, and admire how well you handle yourself against the ignorance and narrowmindedness you always face. Don’t stop. Although I have not been an activist in past, I volunteered for Obama’s campaign, and felt a great sense of satisfaction. Tomorrow morning I am going to the Prop. 8 protest in downtown San Jose. No matter what happens in the near term, history proves that justice will prevail. I will try to do my small part.

   Alan Z.

5. Marriage is not a legal entity done by the state. Before there was a state there was God who ordained married. We have taken marriage so far out of context that it is truly shaming how morally laxed we have become as a society. In the beginning God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, nor Lucy and June. Marriage was begun when a man and woman knew each other. So can you imaging how many of us are running around committing adultery. Read your Bible people. The act that you are talking was a celebration for family and friends ust to show that the act had occurred. There was no justic of the peace when Adam and Eve got married, it was just God and he ordained that marriage. The state got in on the act as a way of making money by allowing the divorce factor to enter the picture for gain for one or the other partner. Those of you who are running around getting divorces and remarring, or sleeping around with anyone you might want to rethink that one. When you stand before God he is not going to judge whethere it was a legal action performed by states/city hall. He is going to ask how many husbands have you had, and you will not be able to lie as we do to ourselves when we try to make the wrong choices. You can’t hide what you do, because God knows. However, if you do not believe in God then don’t worry about it, just keep on doing what you are doing. Trying to get things to suit yourselves because you feel that you can and instead of just doing what you want, you want everyone on the bandwagon even though everyone does not agree with it, nor have faith in the way you want to live your life. You do have choices, but they are your choices, not other peoples. If you choose to live a gay lifestyle, that is your business, not everyone elses. We don’t want to know. If you are our biological sisters and brothers, we love you despite of, but we hate your choices, not you. Don’t try to make people choose between you and God. You might win some, but you will loose those that you supposedly care about. Read your Bible, get an understanding of God’s word, see if what you believe about the rights of gays hold up to what God’s word says, or sin period. Adultery is a sin, sex without benefit of marriage is a sin, and the list goes on and on, but people don’t want to acknowledge their action, but the day is coming when you will acknowledge them, we will not be able to hide from them, and we will not be able to force others to be a party to our sins. God loves everyone, but not always their actions. He is the only who can destroy both the body and soul in hell. But you will make your choice to decide the matter. Think about it now while you are still on this side of life. We are commanded to love the person, but not the sin. Don’t try to stick us with those people that have an aversion to people’s lifestyle and take it to the extreme with beatings and murder, that is not the majority of us who are against marriages between two people of the same sex. Stop trying to make us look like crazies because you only make it harder for yourselves. God is love!

6. From a native Utahn…
   Not all of Utah opposes same sex marriage! I was very much opposed to Prop 8 and I believe this IS very much a civil rights issue. I was born and raised in Utah in a LDS family, but sent in my formal written resignation to the LDS church on Tuesday. Although I had a few years ago in most ways already parted ways with the church, I was so saddened and embarrassed by the passing Prop 8 and the tremendous efforts made by my former church, I felt I did not want the association with it, even if by name. I do not condone violence or destruction, but I support peaceful protesting because that is an American right.

   But what people outside Utah don’t understand is, that in this state (I’m not in agreement with the majority of this state), people already believe the rest of the country alienates them. I remember reading an article a week or two before the election in The City Weekly, and the author essentially claimed that our sport teams did not get national TV coverage because the country was still biased against Mormons for practicing polygamy over 150 years ago. He went on to quote Brigham Young calling the federal government dirty scamps for being invasive and impeding upon their beliefs.

   Unfortunately post-election, people have become more extreme about their paranoia. I heard a girl say that her bishop had stated that if they didn’t support prop 8, the government would force them to allow gay marriages within the temple. Although that would be impossible, this is a classic example of what I grew up with and everyone is really afraid.

   Protests are important and I wouldn’t be opposed to joining them, but let’s also focus on the next steps needed to be taken because Mormons are already claiming that, “Satan is prosecuting them yet again because they are the one and only true church.” Thus, we don’t want to give them any more reason to agree with themselves on this topic 😉

7. To Lisa – I respect your right to believe in God and the Bible, and in this country you are free to do that for just the reason why your argument is totally irrelevant. This is a legal issue of equal rights in America, where the rule of law is based on reason, not religion. The American system of government and laws is secular. We are not a theocracy (say, like Iran), where laws are based on religious doctrine. Our laws are not based on writings that were made thousands of years ago, and are questionable as to fact. This is not about marriage, the religious or spiritual rite; but about allowing two consenting adults to get a civil license so as to get all the rights they equally deserve in our society. You need to put aside your religious faith and personal belief system, and support the U.S. Constitution and equal treatment under the law.

8. Alan Z – sorry but it is about marriage, and the attempt to redefine what marriage is.

   The reality is, the same sex movement will not rest until marriage is no longer defined as between a man and a woman, and even civil unions with all of the exact same rights as marriage will not be good enough for this movement…

   I personally am fine with marriage being same sex partners – but I do think this movement, and Dan, tend to dismiss the polarizing aspect of the issue and try to paint this as a civil rights issue way too much. The movement wants to redefine an institution which has its roots in religion, and use the separation of church and state, a newborn concept in the history of humankind as the justification. They dismiss religious beliefs far too easily, and seem to believe that human history is irrelevant.

   This movement is on a soapbox and in many ways is ramming the need for same sex legitimacy in the eyes of mainstream society down our throats. It is easy to forget that in California the judicial system legislated from the bench and prop 8 was and is about reversing that travesty. The courts in California manipulated the system. It’s wrong.

   Sure, same sex marriage will win, and cooler heads will prevail and life goes on and same sex parents will raise children as well as anyone but this movement is more about a large chip on the shoulders of gay community more than about the actual marriage issue.

   To be honest I am sick of hearing Dan’s canned responses over and over, and really tired of him talking over everyone who does not agree with him on the talk show circuit.

9. Dan, thanks for being one of the strongest voices out there for same-sex marriage and civil rights. Your example and your hard work are greatly appreciated.

   Seems the church is asking the same-sex population to bail them out of the mess marriage has gotten into, doesn’t it? The argument that the meaning of marriage is eroded, the definition changed, and the institution attacked is absurd.

   In fact, it is odd that the “pro-family” folks wouldn’t want over a half-million children in same-sex homes to be protected by the same laws that protect their children and families. Seems a little hypocritical for our “pro-family” friends. . . .

10. I’m a California resident, North Bay area. I still have my “No on Eight” sign on my yard. No sense in taking it down before its appealed ( I’ve spares if it wears out or is taken).
    It shouldn’t have past. However I love it that it is not being allowed to stand without serious repercussions for those businesses and individuals that supported it.
    I was ambivalent about marriage versus civil unions until I saw the pictures of the 2004 weddings in SF. At that point I became ashamed for being a cretin – no one has the right to deprive anyone else that happiness and comfort. The fact that I’m married with a family makes me more adamant that every individual should have the same right.
    Do not sit on your asses and bemoan the injustice.
    Let’s make it go away! See you at the protests!

11. I saw you on AC 360 the other night with that monster Perkins. You did a great job articulating our points. He just refuses to have a logical conversation about Prop 8. He and people like him are just convinced that they have morality and God’s will on their side. Fortunately, our government is not based on perceptions of morality, but on facts and logic. We will eventually prevail. I’m off to a protest in downtown LA today and we will be heard. Nobody ever had their civil rights handed to them. It worth having so it’s worth fighting for. As long as we keep our protests loud, visible and free of stupidity and destruction, we will win over those who would have us remain second class citizens.

12. Prop 8’s success requires a different approach. So far the gay community has only been seeking equality, which is symbolized by the Human Rights Campaign’s yellow and blue equal sign. You mused in your recent Lovecast the need for a new symbol, just to mess with people’s minds. I’m suggesting that sign be the division sign with a slash thru it. It is our willingness to help the religious right take the next obvious step to save marriage. No divorce would ultimately save EVERY EXISTING MARRIAGE. When I’m finally canonized, sign me St. Garrit.

13. Maybe the direction of PINTS’s vagina is tilted in an unusual way. I’m tilted a little back/down, so intercourse some positions are really uncomfortable for me. But the sideways-X position (that’s what we’ve always called it!) is really good, especially when we’re both very tired.

14. The Civil Liberties being denied to adult Americans is literally unconstitutiona. Forgive the play on words, but it has brought out the Rodney Queen fight for this time in American History.

    Biblical laws have no place in Civil Rights.

15. Dan Savage,youre a nice guy,but for God’s sake, start reading the Bible so you wont be fooled by surrogate christians with their texts!!! If you read Matthew 19 or Mark 10 you will read there that Jesus only spoke about a man going to a wife and not sayin anything about other relations, so YOU were fooled by the black pastor of the good hope (HALLELUJAH! SIC!!!) church, whatever obscure that inclines obviously….If you want more info; heres my email Muziek967@hotmail.com

16. dan

    I was thinking about you on my drive home the other night and how great you were when I saw you @ WWU years ago. I came home and turned on Comedy Central and there you were! Yay! Keep up the great work, you are a gift to society.
    I too felt the excitement and sadness on election night living in California. It’s far from over.

17. A HUMOROUS PROP 8 IDEA

    http://pun-man.blogspot.com/2008/11/prop…

18. It’s funny how people get so pissed when their opinions aren’t supported by the majority, but couldn’t give a shit about the fact that other people have their beliefs too.

19. I think heterosexuality should be banned so this pathetic race can die off. Obviously people are idiots, and butt sex and plastic cocks are king. God bless Obama!!

20. I love your attitude Dan. Its high time that the Gay community goes on the offensive instead of being on defense all the time. Here’s my suggestions: make the bastards prove that there even is such a thing as traditional marriage before they use it to clobber us with, make them prove that there is such a thing as the “institution of marriage” and that the notion is not just a fairy tale invented to maintain a system of rewarding privilaged status to some above others, and make them explain why some perceived framework rooted in religion is even relevant when the true argument is whether every citizen has an inherent right to the mate of his or her choice or only some do. All else is peripheral. Once that is established there is no justification for affording privilaged status to heterosexuals.

    Loved you on Colbert Nation and felt some empathy for you when you had to deal with D.L. Hughley.

21. Hey Dan:

    Saw you on CNN and thank you for realizing that Blacks are not the enemy. I am pleased to see all the protests. As I said in my post to yuo last week, attack the power structure that funded this and put it on the ballot. They are the real enemy.

    You go boy!

    Thelea333

22. Laura Boll:

    What you described is the pervasive legacy of slavery when families were not valued and could be dissolved at will, and poverty that has taken a terrible psychological toll on the community. It is to be pitied.

    Don’t trust exit polls. I think they are pitting one group against the other. African-Americans are less than 7% of the state population, do the math. Many more Whites voted and they put this over, not Blacks. What are the total numbers of each group that voted. Someone dug into the data and found that we’re just now learning is that the exit poll was based on less than 2,300 people. If you take into account that blacks in California only make up about 6.2%, we get roughly 224 blacks who were polled. 224 blacks to blame an entire race! The truth is, I have heard that Prop 8 passed because of Republican support. 82% of Republicans admitted to supporting the proposition. They were not the ones who came out to vote for Obama. One blogger states that if you look at all the data, you’ll see numbers for first time voters. They rejected Prop 8 by a 62-38 margin. These first time voters were overwhelmingly for Obama, 83-17. Without Obama, Prop 8 would have passed by a much larger margin.

    Religious organizations that support Proposition 8 include the Roman Catholic Church], Knights of Columbus, Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) a group of Evangelical Christians led by Jim Garlow and Miles McPherson, American Family Association, Focus on the Family[and the National Organization for Marriage Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church, California’s largest, has also endorsed the measure. The Bishops of the California Catholic Conference released a statement supporting the proposition. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) has publicly supported the proposition and encouraged their membership to support it, by asking its members to donate money and volunteer time. The First Presidency of the church announced its support for Proposition 8 in a letter read in every congregation. Latter-day Saints have provided a significant source for financial donations in support of the proposition, both inside and outside the State of California. About 45% of out-of-state contributions to Protect Marriage.com has come from Utah, over three times more than any other state

23. PINTS,
    Get yourself to a doctor. Hopefully one who knows something about pelvic pain conditions. Your ordinary everyday gyno has exactly zero clue about this stuff and is likely to tell you “Use more lube”. This is total and utter bullshit.
    There are a multitude of things that can cause painful intercourse. Some of them have been gone over in previous comments.

    Fibroids
    Vulvodynia/vestibular vaginitis.
    Endometriosis
    Tipped cervix
    Weak pelvic floor muscles
    Persistent yeast infections
    And a lot more.

    Although there is some small chance that the problem you’re having is a size issue or you need to be more relaxed and that shouldn’t be totally discounted, what is much more likely is that you have one of the above physical/medical conditions and you need a doctor to help you sort out what’s causing the pain. There is no one-size-fits-all answer.

    Most gynos know fuck-all about pelvic pain and will probably tell you anything to get you out of their office. Don’t listen when they tell you it’s normal or that it’s all in your head. Don’t take “I don’t know” for an answer. Go to another doctor. If you don’t have access to anyone who knows anything about pelvic pain try to convince your gyno to do some research. There’s lots of info out there. Try doing a google search for “Pelvic pain” This is the guy who my ex went to and although he didn’t cure the problem he was able to make it much better. http://www.jmweissmd.com/

    Best of luck to you and yours.

24. dan – I saw you with Joy Behar on Larry King and on the D.L. Hughley show and you are fantastic. I am a straight white female and a lawyer, and I greatly appreciate your reasoned, intellectual response to each question posed to you and to the supporters of Prop 8. I was greatly disappointed in American on Nov. 4, but I also know that gay marriage is inevitable. Keep up the good fight.

25. To those who hold the false belief homosexuality is a “choice” and “unnatural”:

    Homosexual attraction is hard-wired in gays’ brains (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/745658…) most likely in the womb. It is natural for them to love members of the same sex. It is no more natural for them to romantically love members of the opposite sex than for straights to romantically love the members of the same sex. It is just as unnatural to force a straight lifestyle on gays as it is to force a gay lifestyle on straights. You may think you are “protecting” children and encouraging a “healthy lifestyle” by telling them the “negative consequences” of homosexuality, but doing this actually increases depression and suicide in gays. (See http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200…). It is much healthier to teach them safe ways to have sex (once they are old enough) than to tell them their very identity is bad. Do not misread the bible. It condemns acting in an unnatural way (Romans 1:27), God NEVER condemns gay love. Why would He? Why would he condemn something he created? ” God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.” (Jeremiah 29:11)

    Just because two members of the same sex who love each other cannot reproduce does not make it unnatural. Their love is natural, and that is what counts. Gay men have larger families on their mother’s side of the family than straight men. (See: http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchArti…). The theory is that these women have an extra strong attraction to men, which they pass on to male and female children alike. This trait has been found to be beneficial for people, because it increases a woman’s fertility. Gay men are also less likely to be the first born (see the maternal immune hypothesis: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11534…), thus allowing straight men (which might I remind you makes up a majority of the population) to be born.

    So in fact, homosexuality is not only natural, but a result of the goodness of our nature, not the bad. If we encourage gays to “come out,” then we can know the families that have such beneficial traits, and increase the prosperity of humanity.

    God, or nature for that matter, would not create gays if they were harmful of prosperity:

    Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself (Isaiah 44:24)

    “For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. (Jeremiah 29:11)

26. To those who hold the false belief homosexuality is a “choice” and “unnatural”:

    Homosexual attraction is hard-wired in gays’ brains (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/745658…) most likely in the womb. It is natural for them to love members of the same sex. It is no more natural for them to romantically love members of the opposite sex than for straights to romantically love the members of the same sex. It is just as unnatural to force a straight lifestyle on gays as it is to force a gay lifestyle on straights. You may think you are “protecting” children and encouraging a “healthy lifestyle” by telling them the “negative consequences” of homosexuality, but doing this actually increases depression and suicide in gays. (See http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200…). It is much healthier to teach them safe ways to have sex (once they are old enough) than to tell them their very identity is bad. Do not misread the bible. It condemns acting in an unnatural way (Romans 1:27), God NEVER condemns gay love. Why would He? Why would he condemn something he created? ” God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.” (Jeremiah 29:11)

    Just because two members of the same sex who love each other cannot reproduce does not make it unnatural. Their love is natural, and that is what counts. Gay men have larger families on their mother’s side of the family than straight men. (See: http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchArti…). The theory is that these women have an extra strong attraction to men, which they pass on to male and female children alike. This trait has been found to be beneficial for people, because it increases a woman’s fertility. Gay men are also less likely to be the first born (see the maternal immune hypothesis: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11534…), thus allowing straight men (which might I remind you makes up a majority of the population) to be born.

    So in fact, homosexuality is not only natural, but a result of the goodness of our nature, not the bad. If we encourage gays to “come out,” then we can know the families that have such beneficial traits, and increase the prosperity of humanity.

    God, or nature for that matter, would not create gays if they were harmful of prosperity:

    Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself (Isaiah 44:24)

    “For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. (Jeremiah 29:11)

27. To those who hold the false belief homosexuality is a “choice” and “unnatural”:

    Homosexual attraction is hard-wired in gays’ brains (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/745658…) most likely in the womb. It is natural for them to love members of the same sex. It is no more natural for them to romantically love members of the opposite sex than for straights to romantically love the members of the same sex. It is just as unnatural to force a straight lifestyle on gays as it is to force a gay lifestyle on straights. You may think you are “protecting” children and encouraging a “healthy lifestyle” by telling them the “negative consequences” of homosexuality, but doing this actually increases depression and suicide in gays. (See http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200…). It is much healthier to teach them safe ways to have sex (once they are old enough) than to tell them their very identity is bad. Do not misread the bible. It condemns acting in an unnatural way (Romans 1:27), God NEVER condemns gay love. Why would He? Why would he condemn something he created? ” God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.” (Jeremiah 29:11)

    Just because two members of the same sex who love each other cannot reproduce does not make it unnatural. Their love is natural, and that is what counts. Gay men have larger families on their mother’s side of the family than straight men. (See: http://www.plosone.org/article/fetchArti…). The theory is that these women have an extra strong attraction to men, which they pass on to male and female children alike. This trait has been found to be beneficial for people, because it increases a woman’s fertility. Gay men are also less likely to be the first born (see the maternal immune hypothesis: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11534…), thus allowing straight men (which might I remind you makes up a majority of the population) to be born.

    So in fact, homosexuality is not only natural, but a result of the goodness of our nature, not the bad. If we encourage gays to “come out,” then we can know the families that have such beneficial traits, and increase the prosperity of humanity.

    God, or nature for that matter, would not create gays if they were harmful of prosperity:

    Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself (Isaiah 44:24)

    “For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. (Jeremiah 29:11)

28. Caught you on D. L. Hughley’s show last night. Nice Job! As a straight, secular humanist, I have no “dog in this fight, personally, but I did send the following to CNN:

    First, I am a huge fan, but I am disappointed that Mr. Hughley missed the point entirely with Dan Savage on California’s Proposition 8. (I did note that he voted against it.) Faith is not the issue here.

    A marriage performed by any ordained priest, minister, etc., absent a civilly issued marriage license, would not be valid. Marriage, under the law, is a civil institution, period! If a couple chooses to involve religion that is their right and no one else’s concern.

    Under the California Family Code, Section 400.e, marriage may even be “solemnized” (interesting choice of words) by “a legislator or constitutional officer of this state or a member of Congress who represents a district within this state, while that person holds office.” I, for one, place little faith there.

    Regarding the U. S. Constitution, the Cornell University Law School (http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/Equal_…) clarifies this nicely:

    “The equal protection clause is not intended to provide ‘equality’ among individuals or classes but only ‘equal application’ of the laws. The result, therefore, of a law is not relevant so long as there is no discrimination in its application. By denying states the ability to discriminate, the equal protection clause of the Constitution is crucial to the protection of civil rights.”

    While, as Mr. Savage pointed out, this does not rise to the level of the Civil Rights violations which African Americans have endured for so long, the 14th Amendment would seem to indicate that civil rights are being violated here.

    I do hope that Mr. Hughley has the time and interest to look at this.

    Thank you.

29. Okay. If it is huring you, he isn’t “waiting until you’re relaxed.” At most, he’s waiting until you, who doesn’t know your body, mistakenly tells him you’re relaxed when you’re not. Or, he just waits until you uncross your legs.

    And, the fact that he “will change positions or stop when I ask” does not mean he’s good in bed. It means he’s not technically raping you.

    Please, both of you, go to a sex therapist. They will suggest exercises to help you get to know each others’ bodies, so that you’re not having bad sex 3-4 times a week because you think that’s how sex works. You know something is not right, and your body is not going to cooperate until your body and mind are in synch.

30. Why is it that same sex marriage is always assumed to be a homosexual union?
    Ive known more then a few same sex “best friends” that have lived with each other in harmony for many years, and these people arent ‘gay’, but very happy with the arrangement none the less.
    They even have heterosexual dates and relationships with others,but usually stay hardcore loyal to each other.
    Same sex marriage isnt just for queers.
    Or are these people just latent, and dont know it?

31. PINTS: Look into vulvar vestibulitis. It’s a neurological condition with few symptoms (though skin tearing is fairly common). The diagnosis is usually done with a biofeedback machine. It’s really sucktacular but can be dealt with. Just be prepared for insurance to not cover it.

32. My take on prop 8 is not a lot of people voted. Talk to your frineds in CA, sure they say I see no reason and it would be stupid to not let gays marry. Did you vote? No.

    It became out a war between gays and religious fucktard zealots. There are less gays.

33. Not enough people felt it important enough to vote here in CA.

    So many who feel outlawing same sex marriage is just backwards and stupid, did not vote.

    It was about the gays against the religious zealots. Those with real passion about the issue.

    Hopefully next time around those who did not vote have seen the impact they could have had or did have by not voting.

    Many I spoke to against prop 8 did not vote yet were amazed it passed.

    Its like the crowd phenomena when less people are around a person is more likely to step up and do the right thing, help out. A huge crowd will watch a rape in progress where as one witness only will step in to help. That same ‘hero’ if in a crowd won’t do anything.
    Everyone standing around assumes someone will do the right thing, no need for them to get involved.

34. I have a question. If a heterosexual couple were go get married in a state like California, and then one of them changes their sex, is their marriage legal or not? Shouldn’t that kind of situation make the entire govt interference in a couple’s legal rights – heterosexual or not – become moot? I think a test court case would be a good way to move your movement forward.

35. Dear Dan Savage,
    I’m a straight black woman living in L.A. I voted NO on Prop 8 and if HELL NO had been a choice, I would have voted that.

    I just want you and the whole LGBT community to know that there are plenty straight people of color, both men and women, who support your struggle and who voted NO.

    I wholeheartedly agree with every point I’ve ever seen you make on TV too. Keep fighting the good fight, we are fighting right beside you!!

    Peace and blessings!
    SS

36. Dan!! Please, when you go to do interviews with the mass media, please bring to people’s attention the fact that an atheist can be issued a marriage license by the state. In addition, no one, same-sex couples included, are seeking to revoke atheist marriages. Clearly the government has not reserved the word marriage for religiously sanctioned unions when you consider that atheists think God is make believe.

    I am worried that we are agreeing not to mention that there are a great many people who are not straight but who do have faith in order to pacify some of the hatred and fear. No one is saying a government should ever dictate or interfere with any church’s individual doctrine, but people shouldn’t have to hush up about their faith in exchange for rights.

37. I am a strieght person who lives in california and voted no on 8, I consider myself a liberal and fully support gay rights. However, I saw Dan Savage on Bill Mahr friday night and was very disturbed by his complete disrespect for Ashton Kutchers and his marriage. I, along with many other srieght people, have never heard of Dan savage and felt offended by his attack on Ashton and feel he owes him a public apology, he only hurt his cause. I believe a gay person should be respected as a gay person, and to each his own. However, if you feel others should respect you as a gay person and have the right to marry, you should also have respect for strieght people, especially when they are married. How would you or your mate like to be harrassed by and our pursued by a stright person who thinks that you are really stright and just don’t know it yet? You have to give respect in order to recieve it.

38. PINKS – ask your doctor about “tilted uterus,” “sensitive cervix,” and sensitivity to nonoxynol-9 – the ubiquitous spermicide that increases one’s risk of contracting an STI, because it irritates the hell out of the lining the vagina/ cervix opening.

39. I thought there was an interesting discussion at the website below on race and Prop. 8. I think the PoC community got off a little easy but there were some important points made about how little difference People of Color made in comparison to white voters.

    http://www.racialicious.com/2008/11/07/o…
    Richard

40. Hi Dan as a woman who has been married for 23 years and trying to get a divorce in new york for almost three years. It has taken six lawyers five judges and well over a hundred thousand dollars and with no end in site.NO ONE SHOULD GET MARRIED TILL THEY UPDATE THE WAY TO END it. thanks stll trying to get out

41. I just moved from Michigan to Florida. After watching MI. “vote” with the same verdict, moving to a different state doing the same thing really bothers me.. (I moved after the deadline, so unfortunalty I was unable to vote in the Fl. election. I’m a straight women for gay rights and it’s disgusting to witness the injustices to the gay community. Alot of people has been fortunate to witness the first african american president. After the cali and florida ruling, I can only hope for the the day I can witness EVERYONE afforded the same equal rights as stated in the constituiton. SHAME ON THE RELIGOUS RIGHT! for the hypocrysy of the bible to love and except people for who they are. Just because you go to confession every week, does not mean you are clear from the eternal sins you commit. I HOPE YOU ENJOY YOUR FIREY SEATS IN HELL… You deserve it”

42. Perhaps it’s time to take marriage away–not from straight people, but from the government.

    We can already take it away from churches, if we want to.

    Don’t forget that the problem is we want civil rights, which means we want the government to NOT take away rights that are supposed to be “self-evident,” meaning natural rights.

    That’s right, people, rights are natural. The government does not graciously invent rights out of the goodness of its heart and give them to us. They SAY that they are there to “protect our rights,” when really it’s there to say “we gave you your rights; now we can take them away.

    Come ON, people, say BULLSHIT to that!! The government has no real, natural, actual right to meddle in our love lives and our sex lives! Neither does the Church, we knew that YEARS ago!

    It’s called passive resistance. But straights and clueless Pinks and Normals have to be bitch-slapped out of complacency to figure out where their own asses are. Take their “marriages” away, and make them figure out that our relationships and our property rights are our responsibility, and no group of people, no matter what uniform or monkey suit they wear has the right to take it from us, no matter how many dumbasses “voted” for it!

    Awake!

43. I am one of the hated and vilified religious “nuts” that you seem to think is at the root of all your problems. To paraphrase Mr. Obama, Mr. Savage, you just don’t get it. You are complaining about not getting your civil rights, which is drivel. The defeated bills were asking to legalize same-sex marriage, note the word marriage. You aren’t asking for the civil rights equal to marriage, you want the inferred religious approval that goes with the word/history of marriage. Why do they call a marriage performed at city hall a CIVIL ceremony? Because it does not involve a religious figure. I can only speak for myself but I would gladly support a bill to have civil union between persons of the same sex (no reason not too, everybody deserves the same CIVIL (civil rights include the right to worship and believe what you want) rights in America) the same rights as a marriage, thus giving them all the rights the gay and lesbian community says they want. That isn’t good enough though, you want MARRIAGE included in the title and that is where the problem comes in. Marriage is a religious thing and you won’t ever get my vote for that because of my beliefs. So you see it is the gays insistence on the word marriage in place of civil unions that caused the outcome you can’t seem to accept. Also do you think you are winning any converts to your point of view being beating up old women and causing problems? This is the system in America, go back, lick whatever feels good and get it right next time, whatever you do just grow up!! As Pogo would say, “we have met the enemy and he is us!”

44. ENOUGH.. YOU LOST.. SHUT UP.. that’s why we are in america.. You PEOPLE.. and Yes I DO MEAN.. YOU PEOPLE have been bitching and moaning about this crap.. Enough is Enough.. Being QUEER does not.. and will Not Now.. or EVER make you a Race of People.. I’m sick of Hearing about GAY Rights.. Period.. You should have no More Rights then the rest of us.. and I’m sorry but the Majority of People out there DO NOT WANT YOU to marry.. they feel it is still a Bond between a Man and a woman.. PERIOD.. you got it on the ballot.. it was voted on.. YOU LOST.. NOW SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT IT.. You want to keep trying to get it on the Ballot again.. then do it without all this Other Crap.

45. Mr. Savage,

    I find your interviews and comments interesting and have had the pleasure of chatting with you in person at some political cocktail party.

    BUT, I disagree with your comments to DL Hughley about not trying to equate gay civil rights movement with the African-American civil rights movement of the 60s.

    Gays are on the top of the list for bigots especially in the past twelve years of election cycles. We, and I mean all currently loving gays, have suffered as much as any African-American from discrimination, unless we have lied and hid, and then we have suffered more from within. I know I have.

    I am sorry if my typing skills and word choices may not come across as well as yours, but I haven’t had the years of lubed finger insertion exercises that you have had in the military, so bare with me.

    I commented to DL and have added it below:

    I was reading your(D.L. Hughley) interview with Savage about Gay Marriage.

    Although he didn’t want to equate gay civil rights with African-American civil rights, I think there are a few things you should think about.

    1) BAYARD RUSTIN, openly gay adviser to MLK, organizer of the most important marches and protests, and the idea man behind non-violent protests. We Were There, We helped. Look him up.

    2) We are Discriminated against by our own families. A person of color, any color, can usually go to mom, dad, or grandma when they are teased or discriminated against for support. I do not have that ability, and many young people are thrown out and ostracized by family when they come to them for support. We are raised knowing that our families would despise us if they new, and always feeling that something must be wrong, why are you different?

    3) We get told that we can hide, lie and stay in closet and get by. It doesn’t work all the time, you have to be careful living with someone, and it is horrible to always have to worry about someone finding out.

    4) Hiding in the closet has helped civil rights movements though. Even though we are discriminated by every majority and minority group, we are in every majority and minority group and are more liberal. Even if “we” are not out professing being gay and liberal, we still have been there along the way to vote and convince others. It wasn’t African-American judges and voters who tipped the scales over the years helping civil rights movements be successful.

    5) We were persecuted as well throughout history. Did anyone remember the concentration camps had over 300,000 of us?
    We have to lie and hide to join military and are excluded from many groups or harassed. What sports people have felt comfortable coming out? Homophobia is higher on many bigots list than race, and remember, we are on every group’s list.

    6) People don’t think it is discrimination, or that they are bigots when they hate gays.

    I could go on. But this issue is not about gay marriage, it is about not being scared everyday, it is about not feeling hated everyday, it is about simple equality to feel welcome in the U.S.

    Are AAs the new Oppressors/Bigots:

    It is also an issue for African-Americans. It involves denying one group civil rights on one hand, and then saying civil rights should be equal for all on the other.

    HIV and D-Low:

    Talk to Savage again, being a sex advise guy, he may want to give you some numbers on HIV and the Down-Low factor. If people are not comfortable coming out in the African-American community, how will they be comfortable telling about their HIV or even getting tested.

    Religion issue:

    Jesus preached love and not hate. Read up, don’t let someone tell you what Jesus said, read it, and you will find more passages that tell you to love and treat others with respect. Jesus also makes a comment to ignore Leviticus when he talks about what is an abomination or not, and Jesus says that it doesn’t matter either way you can still go to Heaven.

    Conclusion:

    If the only thing you take away is that gay Bayard Rustin helped make the civil rights movement successful, then maybe you will be able to justify not denying us our rights.

46. Stop H8! – End Religious Bigotry!

47. Homosexuals would have people believe that all they want is the same rights as heterosexuals have but they already do. Homosexuals have the EXACT SAME right to enter into a marriage with someone of the opposite sex as heterosexuals do. Period! I believe they call that equal rights.

    Prop 8 and similar measures want to make a new “right” that did not exist before. One to be able to marry a person of the same sex. That is a new right that people in America don’t have (but in one state now?) and obviously the majority of voters do think it is needed either.

    If homosexuals were honest about what they were trying to accomplish the reaction might be different.

48. Does anyone else think it sounds like PINTS has a big dick to contend with….??? Maybe her straight guy ought to be forced to undergo penis reduction surgery. Would be justice if he voted for Prop 8.

49. There is nothing Equal Under the Law about Propositon 8; it is Jim Crowe for gays…in one state you are defined one way and in another you are denied rights/definitions acknowledged elsewhere.

    It’s wrong. Was it wrong in Nazi Germany to write laws restricting Jews.

    Here’s a list of German laws passed under the Nazis that restrict Jews.

    Only people of German blood or racially related blood can be German
    citizens. (Jews were reduced to “state members”, unable to vote).

    Jews are not allowed to wave the German flag.

    Jews are forbidden to marry people of German blood or to have sex with
    them. Also, German girls are not allowed to work as domestic servants
    in Jewish houses.

    By a “Jew” it was meant anyone who had even a single Jewish grandparent.
    If he would baptize it wouldn’t help; the emphasis was definitly on race
    and not religion. In that, the Nazis “surpassed” classical antisemitism,
    which considered converted Jews to be equal to Christians.

    Later, additional laws were passed and Jews were removed from the education systems, meaning that Jewish children were not allowed to study in ordinary schools but in special “Jewish schools”. Ditto for Jewish teachers – they could teach only at the Jewish schools.

    October 29 1935: Jews are not allowed to work as pharmacists.

    July 25 1938: Jews are not allowed to work as physicians.

    Jews are removed from the association of art historians.

    September 27 1938: Jews are not allowed to work as lawyers.

    May 4 1939: Jews are not allowed to rent property.

    May 11 1939: Jews are not allowed to work in the travel agency business.

    And…it all started with one silly law.

50. Keep up the protests. Keep up putting pressure on the Mormon church. Boycott all Mormon businesses and boycott all known supporters of Prop 8.
    http://www.boycottmormonbusiness.com

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