News Flash: I Didn’t Like Hooters

1. I’m sorry, HootersFan @153, am I hearing you right? You’re saying that the degree to which women are clothed serves as a measure of sexism? By that one might infer the nations under Sharia law, some regions of which are debating if women must conceal an eye lest they beguile men with both, are not sexist after all. Not so much.

   And you were saying the iron-wrought sexual harassment policies of Hooters is indicative of respect for women? I suppose it is the way barricades are an indication of respect for bears or other fierce megafauna at the zoo. Those are there to protect the company from litigation, should patrons of the place act inappropriately towards the servers. Similarly, most men’s magazines that feature nude modeling spreads have rigid limits of interaction between the models and the photography crew, not that photographers are generally in appropriate towards their models, but it would take one case, and a decency-minded judge to kill a magazine, if not the industry. Similarly, Hooters has to demonstrate a more-than-adequate level of responsiveness, if someone gets out of hand. Indeed, the barricades may be policy and bouncers, rather than steel bars, but they’re there.

   Regarding the servers “just trying to put themselves through college”, this is commonplace nation wide, and as I mentioned in a previous post, above, contingency work on its own isn’t enough to earn a sustainable living, let alone put someone through college, and it shouldn’t be that way. Yes, many strippers, too, are putting themselves through college. No, we weren’t saying that servers are stupid, but they are selling out some of their own integrity by working for a company that sees them as the commodity, and that creates a space that endorses and condones this view.

   As for actually knowing something about your given server, it is assuredly, an act. Oh, they may not change their favorite color or their college major or their hometown like a character from a TV script (though some do), but the bright and bubbly that entertains you at your booth is the very brightest and bubbliest that the poor girl can squeeze out of her juggy corpus and outgoing personality, because it’s all about how much you’re going to pay her in gratuity once you settle your bill. Rest assured that your server, once you’ve determined how much to tip her, doesn’t want to see you again until you’re back for another round of eating and tipping. She’s not, in the meantime, going to fall in love with you or become your girlfriend no matter how many times you patronize the place on her shift, or tip her fifty percent.

   Why are they so desperate? That’s because the high prices they charge for those hot wings don’t cover a decent wage, not enough to put a girl through college, or to get her out of her efficiency into a proper apartment, or to even escape from under the thumb of her abusive boyfriend back to her parents. No, they rely on their customers giving them 20%-30% rather than the customary 15% to actually change their lives enough to where they never have to work at a place like Hooters again. I wouldn’t call those girls stupid. Some might be; some are certainly not. I would say they’re caught in that same contingency work trap that cages about forty percent of our nation’s workforce. (Last I checked. It might be higher since the crash.) And I hope every last one escapes that pit.

   In the meantime, as a 21 year old college student, I think you’re exactly the demographic to whom Hooters caters, since you still can be impressed with the idea that Hooters girls are what women are really like, in contrast to the naked apes that we all are. The sooner you figure that out, the sooner you’ll be getting laid on a regular basis.

   Or, you can keep patronizing places like Hooters, who feed you the fantasy with their curly fries, but the longer you hold out on the idea that women are (or should be) buxom and bubbly all the time, the longer you’re going to be disappointed when it comes to the real world. Remember to tip them well. They need it.

   It’s not too late to get a life, dude.

2. Uriel-238, I’m going to have so much fun tearing apart your lame rebuttal.

   First off, the servers with whom I have made friends are not acting friendly just so that they can get higher tips. If that’s what you ASSume, then why did my favorite Hooters waitress go out of her way to buy all the decorations for my 21st birthday party there? How come she bought me a birthday card? Why did all my friends there create and sign 2 happy birthday poster boards for me? You can’t answer any of these questions because you don’t know me or the servers who work at my local Hooters. Take your idiotic ASSumptions and shove them up your ass, you uninformed moron.

   Secondly, Hooters does not just cater to the college demographic. Every time I go in there to dine, which is once a week, I see a very diverse range of people. There are families, dating/married couples, soldiers who are home on leave, senior citizens, college students, businessmen, and bikers, just to name a few of the many demographics to whom Hooters caters. Have you even been to Hooters? If not, then that would explain why you ASSume that the only people who go there are single male college students.

   Third, the prices for meals at Hooters are not very expensive. For example, every Wednesday you can get the Wingsday platter. It includes 10 boneless wings, curley fries, and your choice of ranch or bleu cheese. This lunch is for the incredibly low price of $5.99. Now if you don’t consider that a great bargain, then your priorities are screwed up big time. My local Hooters started running this special back February of this year, and it’s been a major success.

   Fourth, I never said anything about the degree to which women are dressed serving as a measure of sexism. My point is that Hooters servers are not synonymous with strippers and prostitutes. They wear more clothes than strippers or prostitutes. Hooters Girls are comfortable with their own sexuality and have no problems working there. They are mature, independent women who work there by their own accord. It’s not like as if they get abducted, tied by their wrists and ankles, and are forced to work at Hooters against their own will.

   Fifth, and finally, I already have a life. I go to college classes 5 days a week, volunteer at an animal shelter once a week, and have achieved a lot so far. I’m a member of Phi Theta Kappa, have a 3.62 GPA, and have also placed on the Dean’s List. Last time I checked, people who don’t have lives don’t have credentials like those. You better be careful who you talk to like that. One of these days, you might just be liable to spew your crap to the wrong person and end up in the emergency room.

   In the meantime, while I continue to enjoy my trips to Hooters and succeed in the world, you and your fellow anti-Hooters pals will dwindle in numbers. You cling to archaic, 12-century beliefs that all the logical, reasonable people have rejected. Hooters will outlast all you pablum pukers in the long run. If you don’t want me to further embarrass you, then don’t reply to any of my future posts.

3. Uriel-238, I’m going to have so much fun tearing apart your lame rebuttal.

   First off, the servers with whom I have made friends are not acting friendly just so that they can get higher tips. If that’s what you ASSume, then why did my favorite Hooters waitress go out of her way to buy all the decorations for my 21st birthday party there? How come she bought me a birthday card? Why did all my friends there create and sign 2 happy birthday poster boards for me? You can’t answer any of these questions because you don’t know me or the servers who work at my local Hooters. Take your idiotic ASSumptions and shove them up your ass, you uninformed moron.

   Secondly, Hooters does not just cater to the college demographic. Every time I go in there to dine, which is once a week, I see a very diverse range of people. There are families, dating/married couples, soldiers who are home on leave, senior citizens, college students, businessmen, and bikers, just to name a few of the many demographics to whom Hooters caters. Have you even been to Hooters? If not, then that would explain why you ASSume that the only people who go there are single male college students.

   Third, the prices for meals at Hooters are not very expensive. For example, every Wednesday you can get the Wingsday platter. It includes 10 boneless wings, curley fries, and your choice of ranch or bleu cheese. This lunch is for the incredibly low price of $5.99. Now if you don’t consider that a great bargain, then your priorities are screwed up big time. My local Hooters started running this special back February of this year, and it’s been a major success.

   Fourth, I never said anything about the degree to which women are dressed serving as a measure of sexism. My point is that Hooters servers are not synonymous with strippers and prostitutes. They wear more clothes than strippers or prostitutes. Hooters Girls are comfortable with their own sexuality and have no problems working there. They are mature, independent women who work there by their own accord. It’s not like as if they get abducted, tied by their wrists and ankles, and are forced to work at Hooters against their own will.

   Fifth, and finally, I already have a life. I go to college classes 5 days a week, volunteer at an animal shelter once a week, and have achieved a lot so far. I’m a member of Phi Theta Kappa, have a 3.62 GPA, and have also placed on the Dean’s List. Last time I checked, people who don’t have lives don’t have credentials like those. You better be careful who you talk to like that. One of these days, you might just be liable to spew your crap to the wrong person and end up in the emergency room.

   In the meantime, while I continue to enjoy my trips to Hooters and succeed in the world, you and your fellow anti-Hooters pals will dwindle in numbers. You cling to archaic, 12-century beliefs that all the logical, reasonable people have rejected. Hooters will outlast all you pablum pukers in the long run. If you don’t want me to further embarrass you, then don’t reply to any of my future posts.

4. Well, HootersFan @, with credentials like those (deans list, in a fraternity, listed GPA, volunteer work, “credentials”) strutted out like a Dodge Viper, you certainly seem to have a lot to prove. You’d sound more secure if you weren’t so readily calling me an uninformed moron (though granted, I’ve been insulted with far worse on SLOG) and making sideways threats of assault and battery. Not only does someone as credentialed as you have too much to lose by thinking with your fists, but you should already know by now an argumentum ad baculum weakens your position.

   It sounds like your favorite Hooters waitress is a sweet girl. But I can’t answer your questions because I don’t know enough about the circumstances around your twenty-first birthday. It could be that you go there often enough, and are familiar enough a face that they decided to spring for your birthday. It could be your relationship with her is that rare exception and she really is sweet on you. (Has she given you her phone number?) It could be that since the twenty-first birthday is regarded as full adulthood in the US, i.e. the first day you can legally drink and gamble, hence this is the standard response to anyone who plans to turn 21 at Hooters.

   What surprises me, dude, is that if you’re in college, why are you relying so purely on personal anecdotal evidence (i.e. the folks you see at your hooters, the deals you can get on Wednesdays, etc.) Like any other restaurant chain or franchise, prices change from region to region. Heck, the local prices here in San Francisco change depending on the district, let alone which side of the bay I’m on. A $6 meal near the Japan center will cost ten or more downtown (not two miles away) in the commercial and financial districts. Since our Hooters is at Fisherman’s Wharf, or tourism central, rest assured I won’t be seeing your Wednesday special there for the same price.

   I already discussed above how, in our nation’s economy (for the last eight years) the choice whether or not to work at Hooters (or at any other contingent job) is dubious. While it’s not as bad as outright impressment, it’s not exactly a choice free of contingencies. I doubt any Hooters girl wouldn’t be happier working somewhere else, in a laboratory or on an executive floor, if not a Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer lot. I’m sure that not all of them sign the required affirmation without some hesitation.

   Incidentally, there’s a difference between inference and actually saying something. For someone in college with such high marks, you don’t seem very bright. Maybe you’d do better if you were more inclined to actually read and think about what is being said if you weren’t so desperate to tear apart my lame rebuttal or defend Hooters as some kind of modern-era Elysium. You’re in college, dude. Make that education work for you!

5. I’ve been to Ni**er’s, seriously, the food was excellent, try the cornbread. It’s off I-20 west of Tuscaloosa heading toward Misissippi. I think they may actually cook some in open hearth still?
   When I was taken I was still a little too young and naive to get the full implication of OMG this is, like totally, the willfull capitalist reinforcement of society’s need to subjugate while reducing the scope of past misdeeds by transferal status. I do remember the the tea was awesome. But the mami headbands??
   SYGIGH

6. Oh yeah,
   and Uriel… don’t fuck with the Dukes of Hazzard, that was one (1) fine ass, a well paid ass. It does not compare with the institutionalized stupidity on the scale of Hooters. Just sayin.

7. Now hold it right there, Mr. Pseudo-Intellectual. I never said that I would personally come kick your ass. What I said was, and I quote myself, “You better be careful who you talk to like that. One of these days, you might just be liable to spew your crap to the wrong person and end up in the emergency room.” I am not prone to violence, so I have no desire to come find you and beat you up. What I meant by that post was, someday you might meet a person face-to-face, try to talk like a smartass to them the way you have to me, and find yourself on the ground counting the clouds in the sky. Therein lies the difference. Funny how you tell me how to learn to read, and yet you go right ahead and take my words out of context. In other words, a classic case of do-as-I-say, not-as-I-do.

   Some of the waitresses who work at the Hooters where I live, as well as at other locations I’m sure, have other jobs to support themselves. Some are single and love it. Some live on their own without their parents. You said earlier, and I quote, “Why are they so desperate? That’s because the high prices they charge for those hot wings don’t cover a decent wage, not enough to put a girl through college, or to get her out of her efficiency into a proper apartment, or to even escape from under the thumb of her abusive boyfriend back to her parents.” What you have done here is make 4 different assumptions. And do you know what happens when you make assumptions. You make an ASS of U and ME!

   You also took me to task for using anecdotes in my argument. Actually, according to one of my professors, it helps to relate personal anecdotes or stories to help prove your point. The textbook for that course also reflects this point. Yes, the prices may be different from state to state, but the differences are probably very minor at best. Either way, there are far more expensive restaurants than Hooters, in my area and elsewhere (e.g. 99, Bugaboo Creek).

   Lastly, I fail to see how Hooters treats women any worse than some of the countries in the Middle East, like Saudi Arabia. You should be protesting them instead of a place like Hooters. Hooters doesn’t kill or hurt women physically or mentally. They are allowed to be individuals and live their own lives without interference. Oh, and BTW, not all Hooters waitresses have breast implants. Many of them have natural cleavage and don’t wear much make-up. I know you didn’t directly post that, but you did comment, and I quote, “but the longer you hold out on the idea that women are (or should be) buxom and bubbly all the time.” It’s a common misconception that in order for a woman to be a Hooters waitress, she either needs to have large boobs or get implants. To be honest, I don’t even notice their cleavage most of the time. I’m a leg man, so if there’s any part of the female anatomy that I’m going to look at frequently, it’s her legs. But if a woman wants to check out my body, I’m comfortable with that. You see, I don’t objectify women, I appreciate their physical beauty.

   I honestly don’t know who I dislike more: Lindy, for having Puritanical, fascist views on the Hooters concept, or you for actually agreeing with her. Both of you would have fit perfectly in with the Puritans in New England, the Nazis in Germany, or the Communists in the Soviet Union. Your views are so backwards it’s ridiculous.

8. Wow. You actually called Lindy’s views puritanical and fascist, and even then crossed the Godwin threshold. Are you a sophomore on a sports scholarship? Have you constructed a debatable position in your life?

   This is the second time you’ve not been able to discern the difference between statements and subtext. The reason I called your threat sideways is that threats are usually inferred or implied. A mobster never says I want $100,000 or I’ll burn down your business, rather he’ll word it I don’t yet feel your appreciation of the circumstances. It’d be unfortunate if an…accident were to befall your business. Similarly, the president doesn’t tell Iran Stop enriching uranium immediately, or America will bring upon you the fury of God’s thunder., rather he suggests If we don’t see signs of cooperation from Iran, we’ll have to consider…alternatives.

   In that context, your threat above is clear: if you had access to my face, you’d be inclined to rearrange it. This is even more apparent given to your free use of outward derision, eg. You morons who bash Hooters are some of the most narrow-minded, dense idiots I’ve ever come across. (First line), pablum pukers, losers, etc. In contrast, the smartassery quotient of my replies is almost nil; hardly worthy of implied threats or calls to fisticuffs. No, your statement You better be careful who you talk to like that. One of these days, you might just be liable to spew your crap to the wrong person and end up in the emergency room. still rings of being a personal threat; albeit, an implied one.

   Last I checked, anecdotes are great for bringing statistical cause and effect to the personal level, very much like the technique of posing stereotypical examples to add color to an explanation, but it is a dangerous (albeit commonplace) fallacy to assume that one’s personal experience reflects what is typical of the circumstances. Of course, I only had an English minor, so what do I know? But for example, as a society, we’re far more afraid for our children of strangers in the bushes than friends and relatives. And indeed, sometimes kids are abducted by strangers. Statistically, however, the gross majority of child abductees and victims of predators are transgressed by people they know (or in sadder cases, people they knew). Similarly, thanks to the incident at Columbine in 1999, we’re terrified for our kids of school shootings, though statistically our schools are safer than ever.

   Interestingly, you illustrated my point when you noted that some of the waitresses who work at the Hooters where I live… have other jobs to support themselves. demonstrating that these girls cannot sustain their own livelihood on their Hooters paycheck. The frequency of moonlighting is an indicator of economic decay, namely under-employment or under-compensation. It brings me back to wondering how many of these girls, given the opportunity to switch venues for equal pay, would be inclined to take it. (That’s rhetorical. I don’t think you, nor anyone here can effectively answer that.)

   I’m not sure what you think Lindy and I believe that is comparable to the beliefs of Stalin or Himmler, but I’d like to know. I never said Hooters was a sin against the Earth, but that its existence in its present form is symptomatic of bigger problems within our nation. And yes, I do think it does thrive on and promote 20th century sexism, which I think, as one who pursues degenderization of society, is a shame.

9. It’s not the displaying of boobs that bother me. It’s the weird-assed un-naturally dark pantyhose. Wearing those is cruel and unusual punishment!

   I didn’t think the article was particularly well-written. Most awkward phrasing… “…if a Hooters restaurant can be said to become “more depressing,” this has occurred.”

10. Alright Uriel, this is why I consider Lindy’s views as well as yours to be fascistic and puritanical. You consider a perfectly harmless and safe restaurant chain like Hooters to be sexist and misogynistic. Now, Lindy has experienced Hooters for herself already, so she isn’t making any pre-conceived notions about the business. However, she has accused Hooters of being a “misogyny theme park,” which is an entirely baseless claim. Misogyny refers to an irrational hatred, fear, or dislike of women. Lindy chose her words incorrectly because Hooters is not preaching hatred of women or the genocide of them. Now really, if Hooters actually perpetuated misogyny, do you think it would be allowed to exist? Of course not. Hooters does not encourage violence against women or treat them like inferior human beings. The waitresses choose to work there by their own accord and will.

    Lindy’s comparison of the treatment of Hooters Girls (that’s only a job title, not an indicator of their maturity) to slaves is completely out of the ballpark and has no validity. If she paid more attention in history class, she’d realize that the blacks in Africa were captured by the European colonists who then brought them to the colonies in North America to work for them under harsh, barbaric conditions. This practice continued even after the American Revolution, and would not end until after the Civil War. Now, the women who work at Hooters were not captured from their homes and brought there to work with no pay and under brutal conditions. They get paid well, earn reasonable tips, do not have to perform any acts that would degrade or debase them, and do not have to live with their managers. Those are the primary differences between Hooters Girls and slaves. The black slaves worked against their own will and were not even paid for their contributions. Slavery was a system into which they were born, until the great Abraham Lincoln finally emancipated them. The struggle for freedom didn’t end there, but it was a major step. Hooters waitresses are not born into working there and are perfectly capable of making their own choices.

    While some Hooters waitresses may have to seek second jobs, this is by no means applicable to all of them. The tips that many Hooters Girls earn in just one week are more than enough to pay for their groceries and bills. The ones who intend to pursue their careers after graduating college will no doubt move on to higher-paying jobs and positions. Of course, some Hooters Girls may not even choose to attend college so that they can continue their education, but that’s their freedom of choice and no one can fault them for that.

    Your implication that I attend college on a sports scholarship is way below the belt and worse than anything I have said to you. What the hell do you know about my life, except for what I’ve told you? My integrity and honesty are not to be questioned, regardless of whether you are a personal friend or a stranger. Jackasses like you will never understand this because you have the safety of your computers to make lies and accusations towards other people without being properly reprimanded.

    You and Lindy may not believe in genocide or prison camps, but your narrow-minded beliefs on Hooters are quite indicative of how you feel about the individual’s freedom of choice and opinion. You have no right to tell me or anyone else to stop patronizing Hooters. It is my inalienable human right to pursue whatever form of happiness I seek, as long as it doesn’t hurt or kill anyone. Hooters has not committed any crimes towards the female gender, and there’s no proof you have to refute that statement. You can’t take away my rights to patronize Hooters, or anyone else’s for that matter, because you’re not in the position to do so (thank God). Your kind is dwindling because most people are logical enough to see through your bullshit. I have not met a single person in the real world who feels that Hooters encourages sexism or misogyny. The people who oppose Hooters (thankfully, they’re a negligible minority) belong in the same camp as anti-marijuana nutcases, because neither group knows any facts to support their case. Oh sure, there might be a minor uproar from a few nutjobs if a Hooters opens in their community, but as soon as it opens and wins over the majority, those fascists crawl back under the rocks where they belong. In the words of the late, great Wally George, you’re outta here! Now I just need some security guards to boot you out of here, much like Wally George’s security did to his guests on his show.

11. Holy Crap, HootersFan, I must say Wow! I had figured the thread good and deceased. I appreciate your articulate response. I also think you must really love Hooters to put this much work into defending it. But fear not, neither the words of Lindy nor I will cause the downfall of your beloved restaurant and put your dear friends out of work.

    You appear to have taken significantly more offense to my query as to whether or not you were on a sports scholarship. In truth it was an expression of my own frustration that you do not know the degree of hyperbole that is comparing something to Nazism, or to Hitler (and by proxy, Nazis, Stalin, the Holocaust, eugenics, the bombing of Hiroshima and probably a dozen other WWII-era references I won’t list at this time.) Even politicians are publicly called on this sort of exaggeration* e.g. when the tanagers started comparing Obama to Hitler and the healthcare reform to National Socialism. It astounded me that someone as immersed in academia as you would wittingly engage in such folly. I , hence, took a guess as to why, and asked. Note that I never claimed to know anything about you except what you’ve said on this thread. However, It speaks ill of your college and your education so far that you don’t know and have continued to insist that my calling Hooters misogynistic is fascist or puritanical.

    If you really want, I’ll break down for you why I think with some certainty Hooters is misogynistic, but I shouldn’t have to do so. (Hint: discrimination such as misogyny doesn’t have to equate to the Holocaust. American society is significantly less discriminatory against blacks or women in the new millennium than was in, say, the 1960s or the 1920s or the 1870s. We’ve made progress, but African Americans are not yet normalized to Caucasians, even if technically equal by law, and women are not yet normalized to men, nor, yet, equal by law.) Hopefully, as one willing to expand your scholastic horizons, you can figure the rest out through the same research I’ve done, myself. I promise you, you’ll be a better man (or at least better liked by women) for attempting to comprehend their plight. Otherwise, get back to me if you need me to elucidate further.

    As for the plight of women compared to the plight of slaves in the US, I expressed my opinion here, in response to blank.

    You might observe, I’ve never questioned your integrity or honesty. I think you believe what you do, and have expressed it in good faith. At one point I commented you don’t seem very bright, but that’s tame compared to the expressions of belligerence with which you’ve seasoned all your posts. In fact, I only suspect you of ignorance, too narrow a focus of the education you’ve had so far, and a lack of exposure to the world at large. This is nothing of which to be ashamed so long as you do everything you can to change this, to understand all sides of any situation before committing to an immutable opinion.

    For now, let me advise you now and forever, never again invoke Nazism, fascism, Hitler, et. al. unless you really mean to make a genuine academic comparison, and by then you better have thoroughly studied the Third Reich and your subject enough to systematically back your claim. To do otherwise is to have (proverbially) drawn first in a gunfight or raised your voice in an argument. It informs all witnesses that you have run out of options other than to strike low.

    Let me also add (as I mentioned above, same link) there’s no shame in enjoying the various physical parts of women, or of even objectifying them. Feminism isn’t about loving only their minds but enjoying all of them. The difference is that objectification should be consensual. If not, only then is it creepy, and in that case (as any famed artist or performer can tell you) it’s creepy no matter which part of them you objectify, whether a body part, a mental aspect or a talent.

    Regarding your last paragraph, look at any of my posts on this thread, and see if I’ve expressly said one should or shouldn’t patronize Hooters. Then read what you wrote in closing. Doesn’t it seem like you think I’m someone else? Maybe you should brush up your Sun Tzu and take a martial art; you’ll feel better.

    * assuming it’s exaggeration; Godwin’s law doesn’t apply when you’re actually talking about WWII and historical nuances thereof, or making a genuine effort to academically compare and contrast a personality to that of Adolph Hitler, or a form of government to National Socialism or whatever.

12. I strongly believe that places like “Hooters”, strip clubs, porn, and most everything else that capitalizes on “look, dream but don’t touch sex” is abusive to men and makes its money off of their widespread and tragic loneliness.

13. Great piece, Lindy.

    Also: Uriel-238, thank you.

14. Coming in way late on this, but great piece, Lindy. Hooters is horrible, and takes a terrible view of women.

15. Dang. Why are you being so hard on places like this? I’ve been to Hooters. It caters to fugly guys who can’t get laid. Just like strip clubs. Leave them alone.

16. Uriel, this reply may be late, but I refuse to allow you to have the last word in this debate. You see, I have a life beyond the Internet, as I’m sure you do as well. Besides attending college 5 days a week, I also volunteer at an animal shelter. That disproves the notion that biggy-dds and Al_Quida have about Hooters being an outlet for lonely, desperate men who wouldn’t get attention from women any other way. I do have some female friends who also attend college and are open-minded enough to know that Hooters is perfectly safe and doesn’t promote sexism. Hell, I just went to visit a 4-year university that I plan to transfer to and saw a women’s volleyball game where the women were wearing shorts even shorter than the Hooters waitresses’ shorts! Are you and your equally moronic cohort Lindy going to start crying about female volleyball players’ uniforms being degrading and sexist?

    OK, maybe I was hasty in equating you and Lindy with Communists and Nazis, but I stand by my belief that both of you are closet Puritans. Why are you offended by a restaurant that is far tamer than any strip club or prostitution house? You obviously didn’t pay attention when I stated that Hooters waitresses aren’t forced against their will to perform acts that would make them feel uncomfortable. There’s a fine line between being a server and being a servant. Hooters waitresses are NOT servants in any shape, form, or manner. I’m not going to release the name of the Hooters waitress who I mentioned earlier, or the names of any of the other ladies who work at the location that I frequent. I will protect their identities and names, instead of releasing them to a backwards-thinking prude like you.

    Lastly, I don’t see what the problem is with thinking that Hooters Girls represent an ideal image of women. It’s part of human nature to be attracted to those who are physically desirable. This is simple logic that you cannot refute. And it extends far beyond the human race as well. For example, would you rather have a beautiful garden of roses or a decaying bed of weeds? I rest my case.

17. Mitten, did they give an award to the most ignorant student where you attended high school? Have you ever actually gone inside a Hooters location and had a meal? And no, walking in for a quick minute to see the place doesn’t qualify. I’m anxious to read your response, even though you probably won’t have any facts to back up your misconception about Hooters.

    As much fun as it is to read and rebut your ignorant remarks, it’s scary that some people actually hold these beliefs. It reminds me of how the anti-drug warriors call marijuana a “deadly and life-threatening drug,” despite the overwhelming evidence that shows that it clearly isn’t. Thankfully, Hooters’ opponents are a small minority and only seem to crop up when a new location opens. They sure seem to quiet down once the new location goes on to succeed and win over the majority. Your loss is the gain of millions of men AND women who patronize Hooters on a daily basis. Chew on that.

18. You do seem more in the way of a sophumer than a philosopher HootersFan @173, though I suspect that that might be a matter of age and experience. You already listed your credentials, and it seems my response was a bit too subtle, before, so let me spell this out for you: People are going to assume whatever they’re going to assume about you, no matter what your routine looks like, and yanking out your own merits only suggests you’re not otherwise confident in your arguments. Myself, I assume that folks have lives, since they generally do, so when you chose to express the terms of that lifestyle, my opinion doesn’t change (though I did expect you to be more academically savvy than you are). Those that think you’re a lifeless schlub in an SRO like doing so, and when you suggest you do volunteer work or are pulling a high GPA, they’ll probably be convinced you’re lying. In the meantime flopping your stuff out like an appendage is a lesser form of appeal to authority (which is simply another version of ad hominem. It alerts those of us logical types to trust your opinion only with caution.

    Incidentally, a five day school week and volunteer work doesn’t make you any less susceptible to loneliness or sexual desperation than otherwise. Agreed, you have more opportunities to meet people than staying at home (school being a primary place we find partners), but one can be just as easily too busy for relationships as not busy enough. I’m sure I wouldn’t take my girlfriend out to hooters unless she was just as interested in ogling the servers as I, but then again, I think I’d have more fun going to the Delancey Street Restaurant and guessing at the pasts of the ex-cons.

    The difference between the Puritan perspective [regarding sexual morality] and Lindy’s and my own is that Puritan morality stems from revealed religion and they believe in traditional gender roles whereas ours stems from an awareness of oppression in history and a desire for gender equality and normalization in society. Puritans would condemn any business that celebrates female sex-appeal as a contrivance of the corruption of society for profit. We condemn Hooters not because it capitalizes on sexy young women, but does so while under-compensating them, and invoking cliché sexist stereotypes. And, for generally being tacky. While I can’t speak for Lindy, myself, I suspect that most burlesque houses are more feministically correct than hooters is, as are a good number of the COYOTE endorsed brothels in this town.

    Incidentally, the problem with idealizing Hooters girls (or Playboy bunnies or whatever glamor source you like) is not in noting that this particular build is what you want, it’s a) narrowing your margin of acceptability to fiercely match that ideal, b) requiring your partner to perpetually maintain that ideal, despite age, lifestyle, childbirth, etc. or c) excluding parameters outside physical comparability (intellectual, emotional, spiritual, practical) when choosing a viable partner. As an individual doing these will lessen your happiness and that of those around you. The media industries are by far more responsible for perpetuating the myth that one can expect any girl next door to be model material (or any boy next door, a perfect provider) than individuals, and Hollywood and the beauty industries have done, by far, more damage in this regard than men’s magazines, strip clubs or Hooters.

    Oh, and @174, you might want to cut the shit-talking folks if you plan on convincing anyone that your thoughts might be relevant. If the first thing that others see come out of your skull is did they give an award to the most ignorant student where you attended high school? you can’t fault them for presuming you a belligerent douchebag.

19. Uriel, I’m not posting my academic credentials because I suffer from a lack of self-confidence or because I have an inferiority complex. I do it to prove that I am a smart, intelligent person who does not fit the stereotype that men who go to Hooters are lonely and desperate. You can’t prove that I’m lying about my life because you don’t know me at all. You are not an omniscient being who can ASSume what he wants to about other people. The Internet is a perfect outlet for cowards like you to spread your ASSumptions about strangers without being properly reprimanded. Trust me, if you tried saying any of your pseudo-intellectual nonsense to me in person, I wouldn’t let you get away with it.

    I already know what puritanism, Nazism, Communism, and feminism are. You don’t need to lecture me about those topics because I am very familiar with them and have studied them extensively. BTW, why do you link Wikipedia? Don’t you know that it’s a site that anyone can edit, regardless of whether the information is correct or not? Try linking other sites for a change instead of Wackypedia.

    You said that Hooters undercompensates their waitresses and invokes sexist stereotypes. You’re wrong because many of the waitresses who work there make enough money from tips alone to live on their own without living under their parents’ roofs. The women who work at Hooters are already beautiful to begin with, so it’s not like as if they were homely before applying there. They are mature, intelligent women who don’t need condescending, elitist morons like you to tell them what to do or that they reinforce negative stereotypes. And what’s wrong with Hooters being “delightfully tacky yet unrefined?” It’s a fun place that doesn’t try to be anything that it isn’t and appeals to people of all backgrounds. If you weren’t such a pompous, elitist know-it-all, you’d realize this simple fact.

    Although I love Hooters waitresses, I don’t exclusively prefer them to other women. Every day I go to college, I see many female students who are just as gorgeous and don’t even work at Hooters. I not only interact with some of these female students, I’m also friends with a few as well. I don’t use beauty as the only criterion for judging women. Factors like maturity and intelligence also play huge roles as well. Since I don’t believe in marriage, I don’t see myself having only one romantic relationship with one woman for the rest of my life. I also have a cut-off age for dating women, which is 50, because I feel that once they reach that dreaded age, they lose all their finer qualities (e.g, beauty, intelligence). You can call me shallow for having this view all you want, but it’s my personal choice and it’s not your business to interfere with it.

    My rebuttal to Mitten’s comment was an attack against his/her ignorance about Hooters. I plead guilty to insulting that user, but I did so with wit. That person has no valid argument for his/her statement that “Hooters is horrible, and takes a terrible view of women.” He/she is making a blanket statement that has no basis in the truth. Your criticisms against Hooters have no basis in the truth either because you rely on assumptions and false statements. You may not realize this, but Hooters is a very charitable business that has donated time and money to many worthy causes, such as the Muscular Dystrophy Association, the Special Olympics, the Make-A-Wish Foundation, and the Juvenile Diabetes Association. Here are links to selected stories about Hooters’ community contributions.

    http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=331…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRele…
    http://www.gastongazette.com/news/pet-38…
    http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRele…
    http://www.disabled-world.com/sports/spe…

20. This is the best debate ever. Please never stop.

21. HootersFan @176 Regarding posting your academic credentials: Firstly (and secondly), Listing your merits doesn’t make them true. There’s a reason why one of the mottos of the net is Pics or it didn’t happen. This is the internet, and your generation should already know at your age, here folks are judged solely, as MLK put it, by the content of their character. There’s a reason netiquette emphasizes proper spelling and grammar, and moderation in use of capital letters. Our words are our face here, and saying I have a degree means no more than saying I have a badge or I have a 365 Daytona, or I have a huge penis. I mean, I could similarly say I work for the DHS in conjunction with Langley to spy on China, and that I’ve dined with a number of published feminists on the west coast, when they’ve lived in or passed through my city. That doesn’t necessarily make any of it true, or relevant.

    Thirdly, you flashed your bits with the intent to prove your intelligence, but what you’ve actually done is proven you feel the need to prove your intelligence. Do you see the difference? That shows (to me) a lack of confidence, as above, that the content of your text will do you justice. Whether that equates to a full Monty inferiority complex is beyond the scope of my concern. You may be a brilliant chemist or an awesome power forward, and just diffident of your online debate skills.

    Fourthly, you are listing merits to reach a false conclusion. In this case I’m bright and therefore not lonely or desperate. Having grown up around Cal-Tech and JPL myself, I’ve known dozens of world-conquering-smart yet lonely and desperate folks. In fact, when intelligence starts climbing into the mad scientist ranges, the ability to interact with ordinary humans drops steeply. Not that I suspect you’re Cal-Tech material (nor am I, for what it’s worth), but I would suspect a solid percentage of fraternal brothers with high GPAs who do volunteer work are also single, lonely and desperate. Being of one set in no way precludes the other.

    Note also, HootersFan, that I not only abstained from proceeding on any false assumptions about you, I never cared. As one who is quite fond of logic, It doesn’t matter to me if you’re really some pathetic goon in the underground slums of Liechtenstein surfing on pirated WiFi, or Richard Dawkins trolling incognito on his Greatest Show On Earth tour. I’ve asked about the specifics of your nature. I harbor suspicions. I’ve made assumptions in the absence of evidence to the contrary, but this, what I suspect of you, is different from what I expect of you. For example, this isn’t the first time I’ve pointed out this difficulty of yours to understand these nuances, but I hope you get better.

    Regarding Nazism, Puritanism, etc. you obviously didn’t know what they were, except in the broadest sense (Nazis = bad Germans, Puritans = Sexually repressed primitive colonists) otherwise you’d have seen early on how poorly Lindy and I compare to them. I’d like to imagine that’s changed between posts, and you’ve gone ahead and brushed up on governments and liberation and equality activism, either the Wiki articles to which I pointed, or a scholastic source you prefer. I only lectured you by pointing out the contrast that was obviously, to you, unapparent. Though, I suppose, if you feel I was lecturing you, you didn’t read it, or you read it and didn’t care.

    I use Wikipedia, by the way, because it’s common, available and about as complete and accurate as any other encyclopedia (including the big ones like Britannica and World Book). Yes, anyone can edit Wikipedia, but the editing watchdogs are quite diligent (sometimes overly so) in correcting errors and fixing vandalism (to the point they sometimes revert accurate updates if they seem too liberal a change). The gaps in articles, including fact-checks, are glaringly flagged, so an article of questionable reliability is easy to spot. Five years ago, you might have been right to suggest Wikipedia is a dubious or apocryphal source. Nowadays, it’s among the best. Better than most academic textbooks, to be sure. If you don’t like it, feel free to use its footnotes to find sources you like.

    Gratuities are not the same as compensation, despite what the IRS says, and the fact that many regard it as such is yet another indicator of our decaying economic system. The fact that gratuity cups have come out at cafeteria style places, such as coffee houses and delicatessens harbingers the despair of our contingent workforce. Gratuities were originally intended to be a bonus for a job well done. Only then did the standard tip appear, first of 5% then 10%, then 15%. As business lower their paychecks in response, customers are now expected to pay servers, and our contingent service-oriented workforce (not just Hooters girls) have been transformed effectively to panhandlers while they work. I have no doubt Hooters girls get paid larger tips, but it is without question for the additional fanservice they provide. As I mentioned above, the extra tips are because they allow themselves to be exploited, as is made clear in their contract.

    Incidentally, all businesses, when they reach a certain financial stature, become charitable. It’s a mirror of the American upper class in the tradition of gratuitous expenditure and of guilty old industry magnates like Carnegie, Rockefeller or Morgan trying to get into Heaven after committing the evils necessary to become tycoons. Hooters doesn’t do it because its shareholders are inherently altruistic, but because charity work is the social currency of corporate empires.

    I’ve already covered the economics of Hooters above, and since I’ve not earned enough respect from you to stop calling me a moron (elitist moron, and then pompous, elitist know-it-all) specifically when I’ve far and beyond demonstrated otherwise, the futility of discussing much with you is growing on me. Indeed, I’ve lost the impetus to continue to provide you the same material in a way you can comprehend. You can search for yourself and see what I said, or as the case likely is, not.

    I suspect you’re simply in denial of any indication that your precious, precious restaurant might have a dark underbelly, or has risen to prestige by questionable device. Since, in your eyes, Hooters cannot do wrong, I will cease to try to point out otherwise. With such determination to believe in absurdity and to turn a blind eye to reality, I am convinced despite your occasional liberal leaning you’ll ultimately become the good, tradition-entrenched fundamental-guided (xenophobic) Republican your parents always wanted you to be. Heck, perhaps you’ll take up a hobby pugilizing those who disagree with you. I do hope I’m wrong.

22. Lindy, while I completely don’t know how to take that (sincere sarcasm?), thank you. And I appreciate that you’ve read this far.

    Sadly, I’ll be vanishing come November only to return in December, so a preset end is immanent.

    I think this debate has illustrated your / my case by example.

23. @179: Oh! It’s entirely sincere. Your patience is astounding.

24. Lindy @180, Thank you! That made my day.

25. I reiterate: You can’t prove I’m lying about what I post here because you’ve never met me in the real world and have no knowledge of my life beyond what I’ve told you. I don’t need to answer to a pompous windbag like you who is too elitist and self-righteous to enjoy a meal at a place that is far tamer than any strip club or house of prostitution. You aren’t some omniscient being who can peek into the lives of anonymous people with whom you converse online.

    Wikipedia isn’t the end-all, be-all of information. It’s only useful for practical information like any regular encyclopedia. For concrete information, you’re better off acquiring a specific book or an article on the topic you’re researching. Not to mention that citing a Wikipedia entry for a term paper (something I’d never do, BTW) is about as valid as citing a Google search.

    The articles I cited are 100% legit. I can always link more stories just to shut your trap up even more. You can’t refute the fact that Hooters is a charitable, caring business that has donated plenty of money and time to many worthy causes. There isn’t a single blot on Hooters’ record. And the women who work there aren’t being exploited because they voluntarily choose to seek employment at Hooters. Exploitation is committed against one’s individual will. Do you honestly think that the Africans in the 1800s and 1700s asked the European colonists to capture them and put them into slavery? Of course not, you uninformed dumbass. All of the Hooters waitresses I know personally chose to work at Hooters by their own accord, not against their will. Therefore, your argument that Hooters exploits women is invalid. Go the back of the class and bang your head against the wall for having such an absurd argument without any valid points or facts.

    I see that your equally pathetic cohort Lindy has chosen to post her comments. If you’re reading this Lindy, I want you to know that I despise you for your asinine article that has made all kinds of untrue and presumptuous arguments against Hooters. You and Uriel deserve each other for your backwards-thinking. Notice how I never stated that I was against feminism or women’s rights. In fact, I would love nothing more than to see a female president elected in the United States, but that’s a story for another day. The only feminists whom I despise are the ones like you who want to ban places like Hooters and violate the individual’s freedom of choice. A proper feminist would applaud a fellow woman for choosing the job/career of her choice, so long as no one is killed. No one is being physically or mentally harmed at Hooters, so there’s absolutely nothing wrong with it. Your kind is dying out because the vast majority of the American people support Hooters and know that it doesn’t commit any crimes. Crawl back under the rock where you belong, instead of posting your ignorant drivel where smarter people like myself can pick it apart.

    In closing, I would like defend myself against Uriel’s accusation that I will “ultimately become the good, tradition-entrenched fundamental-guided (xenophobic) Republican your parents always wanted you to be.” Au contraire, you spineless wimp. I am a proud independent who has strong convictions and subscribes to neither major American political party.

26. HootersFan 182 I can only assume by your last response that you’re replying to me while inebriated, since the possible alternatives are that you’re either semi-literate, or that you’re suffering from a traumatic brain injury, since every point in your last reply — every last one — was a reactive response to things I didn’t say. In retrospect, I’m wondering if this has been a habit of yours, to post to SLOG while drunk, in which case I’ve been overestimating you for quite some time.

    ~ I not only didn’t claim to know anything about you, I noted that I don’t care, since it’s irrelevant.

    ~ I didn’t say Wikipedia was the epitomical information source. What did I say, can you read?

    ~ I didn’t say Hooters wasn’t charitable. I said they have ulterior motives to be so. See the difference?

    ~ I never said you were against feminism or that you were mysogynistic. But then again most mysogynists would never admit it, and often make flimsy defenses like I would love nothing more than to see a female president elected in the United States.

    ~ I never said I wanted to ban hooters. What did I say?

    ~ I didn’t say you are the good, tradition-entrenched fundamental-guided (xenophobic) Republican your parents always wanted you to be. I said you’ll become the good, tradition-entrenched fundamental-guided (xenophobic) Republican your parents always wanted you to be. I made this prediction based on your capacity for denial and refusal to engage in critical thought. (I’m slightly surprised you didn’t advise me that your parents aren’t Republicans and wouldn’t want you to become one. Maybe I guessed correctly.)

    I don’t expect you to read this, nor do I expect you to retain it if you do, but people don’t choose to become mysogynist or homophobic or otherwise bigoted. They justify their actions by comparing them (favorably) to worse attrocities, or by affirming them with scripture, or by putting qualifications on bigotry (Exploitation is committed against one’s individual will.)

    As I said, I hope I am wrong, though that hope wanes with your continued belligerence and incapacity to comprehend what you read. Maybe you’ll read this, and re-read my previous posts when you are sober, and then continue this dialog in earnest. I doubt it, now, but please, surprise me.

27. Uriel, I wasn’t under the influence of alcohol when I made my last post. My medical condition prevents me from consuming alcoholic beverages, and even if I could drink, I still wouldn’t. I’ve never had a single beer in my life and never will. Drinking is overrated and nothing positive comes out of it anyway.

    If you go back and read my previous comment, you’ll see that I directed some of my ire toward your brain-dead buddy Lindy. And for someone who claims to not care about my life, you sure spend a lot of time making unsubstantiated assumptions about me (i.e. I’m a drunk, I attend college on a sports scholarship, I’m a Republican, etc.). None of the allegations you’ve made against me are true. In fact, they’re all 100% wrong, and if you said any of this shit to my face, I’d haul your sorry ass to court.

    My statement that I would be in favor of a female President is not a flimsy defense, it’s a statement of pride. In fact, one of the candidates for mayor where I live happens to be a woman, and I’m voting for her. Not to mention that I’ve also donated money to breast cancer and anti-domestic violence funds. I strongly oppose domestic violence and feel that any man who rapes or murders a woman should be executed pronto. So no, I’m not a closet misogynist, which you indirectly accused me of being when you said “But then again most mysogynists would never admit it, and often make flimsy defenses like ‘I would love nothing more than to see a female president elected in the United States’.”

    Neither one of my parents is a registered Republican. Both my mom and dad are registered independents, although I would say that my father has some conservative leanings. I do too, but I also have some liberal and libertarian views. My parents don’t expect me to grow up to be a Republican because they respect the fact that I’m my own person and don’t need others to think for me. Once again I’ve shown you to be the presumptuous dick that you really are.

    Hooters’ charitable contributions aren’t a result of ulterior motives, as you claim, it’s because they genuinely care about getting involved with communities. I already linked 6 articles about some of their more notable efforts, but since you’re blind to facts and the truth, I might as well post some more:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRele…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRele…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRele…
    http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRele…

    Here are some interesting facts I discovered on Hooters’ official site:

    “The Hooters Community Endowment Fund (HOO.C.E.F) is the 9th largest corporate endowment fund in Georgia and has contributed over $8 million to local and national charities since its inception in 1992.”

    “Of Hooters 1,500 exempt employees (management from the restaurants and corporate office), 30%, or 450, are female.”

    “Of Hooters 1,500 exempt employees (management from the restaurants and corporate office), 30%, or 450, are female.”

    “Hooters was recently ranked 45th in Restaurants and Institutions magazine’s top 400 restaurant chain concepts in America based on 2008 sales.”

    And here’s a statement regarding the debate over Hooters being a misogynistic restaurant, right from the official Hooters site:

    “Claims that Hooters exploits attractive women are as ridiculous as saying the NFL exploits men who are big and fast. Hooters Girls have the same right to use their natural female sex appeal to earn a living as do super models Cindy Crawford and Naomi Campbell. To Hooters, the women’s rights movement is important because it guarantees women have the right to choose their own careers, be it a Supreme Court Justice or Hooters Girl.

    Women occupy management positions all the way from Assistant Manager to Vice President of Training and Development, such as Kat Cole, who started her career at Hooters as a Hooters Girl.

    The chain acknowledges that many consider “Hooters” a slang term for a portion of the female anatomy. Hooters does have an owl inside its logo and uses an owl theme sufficiently to allow debate to occur over the meaning’s intent. The chain enjoys and benefits from this debate. In the end, we hope Hooters means a great place to eat.

    Hooters characterizes itself as a neighborhood place, not a typical family restaurant. Sixty-eight percent of customers are male, most between the ages of 25-54. Hooters does not market itself to families, but they do patronize the restaurants. Ten percent of the parties we serve have children in them. Hooters is in the hospitality business and provides the best possible service to anyone coming through the door. For this reason, the chain offers a children’s menu.

    According to ever-increasing sales figures, the Hooters concept must be acceptable to a large majority of American consumers. Hooters believes critics of the concept are a vocal minority of politically correct minded individuals. This group sometimes states the concept “constitutes a hostile work environment,” but just the opposite is true.”

    You may have the upper hand on critical thinking, but when it comes to cold, hard facts, I crush you just like good ‘ol Ronald Reagan crushed Jimmy “Mr. Planters Peanut Man” Carter and Walter “Who?” Mondale. You wouldn’t know a fact even if it were stamped on your forehead.

    Unless someone is raised by prejudiced parents and forced to accept their ideology, people can choose to become bigots. I myself am not a bigot in any shape, form, or manner. Since your feeble mind is incapable of understanding the difference between being forced against your will to do something and choosing to do something by your own decision, I’ll reiterate myself: Raping a woman is exploitation because it’s a degrading violation of her body and will. No woman ever asks a man to rape or abuse her, even if she is dressed scantily-clad. However, women who choose to work at Hooters are NOT (capitalized for emphasis) being exploited because they are mature enough to understand the concept and realize that it won’t lead to any psychological or physical damage. If a woman decides that Hooters isn’t the job for her and wants to quit, she’s not going to be held at gunpoint to keep working at Hooters against her will. Now do you understand? If you can’t, then you’re a lost cause whom I shouldn’t bother with any longer. It’s wimpy crybabies like you and Lindy that make me wish that the Internet was never allowed to be used by the public.

28. That is frightening to me, HootersFan @184, that you misread everything I said while straight-edge. Do you have a literacy problem? It might explain why you’re so hostile and why you think I said you’re Republican, when I didn’t.

    I think the court case with which you threatened me (on contingency) would be quite amusing. The judge would see what I said for what it was. But also, there’s no slander in suggesting you’re Republican, on a sports scholarship or that you drink. (Though you’ve implied yourself partaking of pot; I wonder what the courts would think of that?) Thirdly, even if there was, you’ve suffered no material or public damage from it. Notably, with the same level of conviction, I suggested you might be a brilliant chemist or an awesome power forward. No complaints there. What is your major, anyway? English Literature? Political Science? Women’s Studies? Law?

    Perhaps you should run this dialog by your peers, and see if they think you have a good case. To be sure, I’ve never called you a presumptuous dick or an elitist moron or anything comparable. As I said before, in this venue, our words are our faces, and its by the content of what we say by which the witnessing community judges us.

    It’s interesting: I’m a fierce advocate of social degenderization, yet I oppose capital punishment, think rapists can often be rehabilitated and am aware that men are as often victims (and women, offenders) of domestic violence (in statistical fact, by far, most incidents of domestic violence are mutual). So your examples don’t really lend weight to your declaration. My point was not to say that you are misogynist, but that most misogynists don’t believe they are. Most bigots in general don’t believe they are, be they sexists, racists, religious supremacists or homophobes. As I said before, what concerns me is the need you appear to feel to have to demonstrate your virtue, which means you are not even open to the possibility, so you won’t see when you are. A contrasting example: Is it misogynistic of me to feel Fat Princess is good enough a game to condone its sexist, weightist messages? Debatably. But I’m comfortable enough with myself to so indulge my feelings, even if that’s the case.

    Here’s hoping you can get there too…before you do become a Reagan-worshiping, Carter-diabolizing Republican.

    Incidentally, standard wage for servers at restaurants like Hooters and its competitors is $2 an hour plus tips (though some regions like San Francisco enforce minimum wage for servers before tips). Tips, themselves are typically around 15% of sales but is, highly contingent on table rotation. Hooters girls can count on about 30% to 100% sales in tips for their additional fanservice (Including stagecraft, e.g. hula-hoops and hopscotch). Dress and behavior codes, as outlined in the server’s manual are exceedingly strict, and turnover is significantly higher than in other restaurants specifically because of violations and enforcement. Hooters only hires women who fit their strict parameters, though; whether that’s discriminatory I’ll let you decide. And each hire must sign a waver that they, personally, do not believe they are being exploited, an element unique to the Hooters hire process. It remains contingent work which pays better but is less secure than comparable jobs.

    In the meantime, amongst all your facts, perhaps you can provide some that proves (i.e. provides clear and convincing evidence) that Hooters charity efforts are purely altruistic. I’m, frankly, not feeling adequately crushed. Please, sir, may I have another?

29. almost all the comments i read were retarded, 23, yes they are, so are women, i think her comment was completely fair.
    most of them probably have to work there to live.
    hooter teaches men and women from when they are little to as a girl=be slutty have HUGE boobs[implants are disgusting and completely ruin the natural boob, from my prospective. although it is there choice and not my place to tell them not to implant them selves and ass. men=be selfish and exploit women. just like Niggers would tell African-American they are slaves and do what ever the white man says and would tell Caucasian they are Superior and can do what they wish with African-Americans.
    people who say i want a place to see boobies, how bout a strip club?

    KJ W 13yrs old

30. Alright douchebag, this is the last time I’m replying to any of your garbage. Your response will not be read or replied to because I’m sick of arguing with someone who is blind to facts. BTW, I find it interesting that you couldn’t even respond to the facts I cited earlier. You may have the upper hand in critical thinking, but I completely dominate you when it comes to facts.

    Ronald Reagan is the only, I repeat, THE ONLY (capitalized for emphasis) Republican president who I even like. I am a registered independent, in case your feeble mind didn’t catch that the first time I posted it. It’s pretty fucked up that you seriously believe that rapists can be rehabilitated into becoming normal members of society. You see, there are different types of crimes, and rape is what I call an “unforgivable crime.” You cannot rationally expect a woman to forgive a rapist, even if the culprit has received loads of medication, therapy, and rehabilitation. What about the psychological and physical scars left upon a woman after she’s been raped? Don’t you care about the victims’ rights, or are you one of those bleeding-heart liberals who cares more about the criminals than their victims?

    I noticed you made a crack about my comparison of Hooters’ critics to anti-marijuana nutcases. Where do you get off saying that I’ve implied the usage of pot? I’ve never smoked one joint in my life, but that doesn’t mean that I can’t advocate marijuana legalization. You see, I’m intelligent enough to realize that it has never killed a single person, that it’s not addictive, and that there almost no risks with taking marijuana. Compare this to the laundry list of risks associated with smoking cigarettes and drinking alcohol. I’m also smart enough to see through all the BS that the anti-drug warriors spout.

    As I said earlier, I fall into the independent category when it comes to political views. On the one hand, I support the death penalty, but ONLY for those who commit the most heinous crimes (e.g., murder, rape, child molestation). On the opposite end of the political spectrum, I support a woman’s choice to have an abortion, especially if she suffers from a medical condition (e.g., AIDS, cancer), is too poor to support the child, or already has enough kids. You have no right to predict that I’ll grow up to be a Republican. I despise the CON-servatives as much as the LIE-brals.

    BTW, I go to a community college right now, but not because of my financial condition. I’m attending a community college because I’d rather take my required courses there first, rather than go straight to a four-year university and take them there. This is my last year at community college, and once I transfer, I’m going to major in Communications. I have the support of my entire family, not to mention my disability service counselors (I have Asperger’s Syndrome, BTW), my friends, extended family relatives, doctors, and last, but definitely not least, the waitresses who work at the local Hooters.

    Although it may be hard for your peanut-sized brain to comprehend this, there are Hooters Girls who have gone on to more successful careers. In fact, the Vice President of Training and Development at Hooters, Kat Cole, started as a waitress there, which pretty much demolishes the myth that Hooters’ corporate offices are 100% male. Another example that immediately comes to mind is actress Amy Adams, who worked there when she was just 18. I’m sure there are many other examples of Hooters Girls who have moved on to the proverbial bigger and better things in life.

    Since you challenged me to prove that Hooters’ corporate suits have altruistic motives, I found this quote from an interview with one of the six co-founders, Ed Droste:

    “I like to be creative, fair. The thing that I get the greatest personal thrill out of is all the community and charitable good that we’re able to do. Through the Hooters concept, it allows us to do a lot more good for folks then I could ever do individually. I would like to say that I’m a fair businessperson, but also one that gets a big thrill out of having an impact on the community.”

    The site where I found this quote is right here:

    http://mcclain.johnson.googlepages.com/e…

    As we can see here, I’ve shut down two of your inane assumptions: that Hooters waitresses are only friendly for larger tips, and that the people in charge may not have sincere motives for supporting worthy causes. At least I can back up my statements with facts and sources. You have yet to post a single fact to support any of your statements, and at this rate, you probably won’t. Even if you can, I won’t able to read it because I hereby bow out of this debate. I’m going to finish my college education, pursue a career in journalism, find love, and of course, continue to support Hooters in every and any way possible. BTW, I just wrote an article for my college’s newspaper about the misguided assumptions that some people have about Hooters (i.e., you and Lindy, etc.). Thankfully, the anti-Hooters crowd is a very small minority, seeing as how the restaurant has expanded not just all across the United States, but in numerous international countries like China, Mexico, Germany, Canada, and South Africa, to name but a few. Your kind is dwindling day by day, and eventually there’ll be virtually no opposition to Hooters. It’s such a shame that you’re too uptight to go to Hooters and see for yourself that isn’t the sexist monstrosity that you and Lindy make it out to be. Then again, I’d really hate to be a backwards-thinking, uptight, politically correct, bleeding-heart wimp like you. Fuck you and the horse that you rode on, too.

31. Your Honor, this defense rests.

32. god that was fucking retarded. both of you should go back to hooters and make out.

33. @5
    The restaurant isn’t called “great personality and engaging conversation”.
    Why do you want to waste someone’s time with that kind of crap? She’s there to work and get paid for it. No one would ever work food service unless there was money involved. It’s a crappy job no matter what you wear or look like.

    Hooter is a theme restaurant much like any other. I guess it’s OK for women to make choices as long as they’re acceptable to you? Or is there some sort of Hooters slave trade I’m not aware of?

    G

34. Did not appreciate the racist n!gger rant at the end. Nor do I understand why the author was so worked up over Hooters restaurant. This article was WIERD.

35. @39: that’s called a minstrel show. watch “bamboozled.” and shut the FUCK up. that last part goes for the rest of you white male commenters completely ignorant of your own privilege. i’m seriously grossed out.

36. @39: that’s called a minstrel show. watch “bamboozled.” and shut the FUCK up. that last part goes for the rest of you white male commenters completely ignorant of your own privilege. i’m seriously grossed out.

37. From the looks of things, Lindy, you have every right to be envious of women who can make a living from being attractive.

38. Just thought I’d pop in to see if any other pablum pukers have tried to debate me after I thrashed Uriel. Looks like no one else has the guts or the courage to argue with me. I hereby declare myself the winner of this one-sided argument.

    Mikex11, the reason Lindy is so uptight about Hooters is because she’s a politically correct hag who doesn’t want logical, intelligent people like me to have a good meal and beautiful women in our company. She has no valid arguments against Hooters and thinks that Hooters Girls can’t make their own independent decisions. Did it ever occur to that feminazi that Hooters waitresses voluntarily choose to work there? Most Hooters Girls I know are bright young ladies who have already finished college or are attending college classes right now. They’re not brainless bimbos who will do anything to please men. You can’t get a lap dance or a strip tease at Hooters, and if you ask for one, your ass will get hauled out the doors.

    There is not a single recorded story or fact to support the ASSumption that Hooters promotes exploitation. If Lindy has paid more attention in school, she’d know that exploitation is committed against the individual’s will. No one volunantarily asks to be exploited. The Africans didn’t ask the European colonists to capture them and put them into slavery. Nor did the Native American tribes ask the Europeans to steal their lands and give them their diseases. I posted a boatload of facts about how Hooters is a genuinely charitable business that gives back to the communities, so I won’t repeat myself. Scroll up and read some of my earlier posts for the cold, hard facts.

39. I like where this is going, take a look at the index number of your post. Then tell me why the heck you are still here if you truly thought the dialog was fucking retarded. Evidently you found it entertaining enough to see if there was an encore.

    GabrielDiesel I’m assuming you arrived late in the conversation and didn’t read the early history of the thread. The slave-like nature of the worker pool from whence Hooters Girls are hired was previously discussed. At length.

    HootersFan, you really have no idea how it appears for you to return to the proverbial field once the game was done, do you? You just couldn’t help but return to declare yourself victor in the announced absence of adversaries, could you? At this point, I would guess you must have stock options in Hooters of America, Inc. You must get blow-jobs from Mr. Brooks, personally. Every glorious day. The only other possibilities can only be idiocy, or delusion. So kudos on your grand arrangement, dude. You da man!

40. Uriel, I only came back just to check on the discussion and see if any other wimps had tried to provoke me into an argument. Since no one else has the courage or the guts to debate me, it’s plain to see that I’m the winner of this argument. I already crushed you with a plethora of facts and links to prove that Hooters is a charitable business and that there’s no misogyny or sexism being perpetrated. All you can do is throw out fancy-schmancy Latin phrases and links to Wikipedia entries.

    For the record, I don’t own any Hooters stock, nor am I related to the founders. I just happen to be a very passionate and dedicated fan of the chain and will defend it when narrow-minded prudes like you attack it. Since you can’t dig up any facts or sources to support your arguments, you have to resort to assumptions and lies that border on slander/libel. Now do you understand why I’ve beaten you and your butt-buddy Lindy? Go back to IHOP where you and all your sissy pals belong. Hooters will still be here and thriving long after you and your kind have expired.

41. You sure did beat us, Hootersfan. Keep telling yourself that.

    You might want to look libel up before you go throwing words like that around.

42. I already know what libel means. It’s a form of slander that appears in print, photographs, writing, or signs. Unlike you, I didn’t need to resort to Wackypedia for that definition. Your charges against Hooters that it exploits its waitresses and that it is sexist are totally unfounded and have no basis in the truth. Your accusations fall under the very definition of libel because they are nothing more than malicious, untrue assumptions intended to damage a company’s reputation.

    I’ve poked so many holes in your “Hooters perpetuates exploitation of women” argument that it looks like a block of Swiss cheese. I really don’t want to repeat myself, even though you are extremely dense and can’t understand logic or facts. Just re-read my earlier rebuttals in case you didn’t get me clear the first time.

    I wrote an article defending Hooters for my college’s newspaper and have received nothing but praise for it. Not just from the managers and waitresses at my local Hooters, mind you, but also my family, friends, and other associates. People like you and Lindy are in the vast minority and are really nothing more than fringe types. Thank God that you don’t occupy a position of authority, because the United States would be in far worse shape than it is now. BTW, I bet Lindy’s comparison of Hooters to slavery would go over real well with blacks. I’d love to see that bitch go to Compton or Watts and try to spew her garbage to the blacks there. There’s no way she’d come out in one piece.

    In closing, chinga usted, Uriel. If you don’t know what that means, then I suggest you brush up on your Spanish.

43. Yep. You sure did. You beat the pants off of me, Hootersfan our pathetic vegan liberal notions were no match for your articulate elocutions and indesputable links to unbiased facts.

    You are so, so made of win, Hootersfan. I’m not worthy to scrape my trodden remains off the soles of your shoes. I’d send you a big victory bunny if I knew your whereabouts.

44. Am I the only one who took twisted enjoyment out of the fact that this particular Hooters was opening in a town named “South Park”?

    (For the record, I’m vegetarian, and even if I weren’t I don’t have a death wish, so Hooter’s wings are the last thing I’d ever eat. And if I did eat them, I suspect they WOULD, in fact, be the last thing I’d ever eat.)

45. Uriel, the fact that you are a liberal is of no importance to me. I despise the LIE-brals as much as the CON-servatives and feel that the United States could use a change in government, but that’s a story for another day.

    Your attempt at sarcasm didn’t deceive me. I have a finely tuned BS detector that can trace even the slightest amount of sarcasm in another person’s statement. Nice try, but you can’t pull a fast one on me.

46. It wasn’t? I can’t?

    Wow, HootersFan, you are sharp like obsidian. Maybe if I start going to Hooters, myself, I can become sharp too, just like you.

47. Uriel, you are pretty retarded. You are getting trolled SO hard. Unless you both just trolled me into posting…………

48. I think any mother or father who brings their kids to Hooters should have their reproductive organs removed, be beaten with a cane, and carefully watched by Child Protective Services to make sure they don’t do anything else like that.

49. Uriel, I can guarantee you that if you start going to Hooters, you’ll acquire a better taste in women. That is, if you actually like females. Judging by the tone of your posts, it seems to me like you are afraid of attractive ladies. If you’re a homosexual, then I can perfectly understand why you wouldn’t be sexually aroused by the opposite sex. But if you’re a heterosexual man and don’t like the Hooters waitresses or good-looking women period, then I fear for your sanity and conscience, or lack thereof.

    Dwight, your comment is a prime example of why idiots should not be allowed access to the Internet, or any other avenue where your wrong-minded views can be exposed to others. If parents want to bring their children to Hooters for an afternoon outing, that’s their right and you have absolutely no right to interfere with it. There’s nothing at Hooters that will corrupt the mind of an impressionable child. If you tune in to those ridiculous dating shows on VH1, you’ll see women who wear even less than Hooters waitresses. Not that I’m protesting, mind you, it’s just that you need to be enlightened. What are you anyway, some kind of bible-waving nutcase? This is 2009, not 1609, you pablum puker. You should seriously consider having the word “dumbass” printed on your forehead and go walk into an incoming train for your asinine remark.

50. Check it out, dwight moody. See how smart HootersFan is? Isn’t he amazingly smart? I bet he could beat all of us in Trivial Pursuit, he’s so mind-bogglingly smart.

    Really, HootersFan? You really think I’d get better taste in women by becoming a Hooters regular? Guarantee, even? What’s that special thing Hooters Girls™ have that women outside Hooters lack to which I haven’t been exposed? Please, enlighten me.

    Seriously, HootersFan, the brilliance you show in your debating skills here is awestriking. You should copy this whole dialogue and show it to your English instructor. You’ll get an A for sure.

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