I’m a 21-year-old woman from Canada who sleeps with other women. Two questions for you:
1. My LGBT friends and I disagree about what we girls who sleep with girls exclusively should call ourselves. Everyone else prefers “lesbian” and bitches at me for hating that word. Can’t I call myself gay?
2. I am a really kinky person: I’ve been very sexually active and into BDSM since I was 16. I have a large toy collection and many of the toys are dildos and anal plugs. I like anal a lot, but the thought of vaginal just doesn’t interest me, so I’ve never gone there. I’ve read about how breaking the hymen can hurt and—despite the fact that I enjoy being flogged and scratched—that scares me a little. Should I get over it and go to town or stick with everything else that works for me?
Good Gay Girl
1. You can call yourself whatever you like, GGG, and your friends can call themselves whatever they like. They’re entitled to their opinions, however, along with their preferred labels. Friends should be able to discuss their differing opinions and preferences without bitching and/or being so thin-skinned that a calm discussion about a sensitive subject is mistaken for bitching.
2. “Tearing the hymen doesn’t always hurt and rarely hurts with any severity,” says Debby Herbenick, sex researcher, vulva puppeteer, and coauthor (with Vanessa Schick) of Read My Lips: A Complete Guide to the Vagina and Vulva. “Going slow with a smallish, well-lubricated dildo is a good place to start, or two or three well-lubricated fingers. Doing this while highly aroused sets you up for a better experience.”
But before you explore vaginal penetration, GGG, Herbenick recommends a trip to your nearest female-friendly sex-toy shop.
“If most of your toys have been used in the anus/rectum,” says Herbenick, “it would be wise to get a new vagina toy.”
And if you’re broke?
“Then put a condom over a clean anal toy or clean a nonporous (glass, medical-grade silicone) anal toy before using it in the sensitive vagina,” says Herbenick.
While most women enjoy vaginal penetration, GGG, not all women do. (And most women who enjoy vaginal penetration require additional, focused, and intense stimulation of the clit in order to get off.) If you decide vaginal penetration isn’t for you, that’s also a preference to which you’re entitled.
I was chatting with a guy, and he mentioned that one time this girl accidentally vomited all over him during oral sex. He confessed that this turned him on. I consider myself GGG, but that is not something I’m game for. The thought of puking in a sexual scenario is completely unappealing. Does my refusal to do this revoke my GGG card? Or is this so out of the norm that I can refuse without losing my GGG card?
Pleasing Upchucking = Kinky Extremism?
Let’s revisit my original definition of GGG: “GGG stands for good, giving, and game, which is what we should all strive to be for our sex partners. Think good in bed, giving equal time and equal pleasure, and game for anything—within reason.”
Some kinksters skip past the “within reason” part of the definition when they’re discussing kinks with vanilla partners. They shouldn’t. Extreme bondage or SM, shit and puke, emotionally tricky humiliation play, demanding that your partner have sex with other people because it turns you on (asking your partner to assume all of the physical risks that go along with that, to say nothing of the emotional risks for a partner who isn’t interested in having sex with other people), etc.—all of that falls under the FTF exclusion, or a “fetish too far,” which you’ll find in the fine print on the back of your GGG card, PUKE.
I’m a 20-year-old female college student living with my 23-year-old boyfriend. We’ve been dating for two years, and our sex life has always been awesome. My boyfriend has a high libido, so high that I can’t always get him off when he wants it. He says I don’t want to have sex with him, when we have sex probably four times a week and I’m totally happy to give him head, jerk him off, or take off my clothes for him any other time he asks. Whenever we sit down together, he’s immediately horny and he gets cranky when I have to say no. Is this a ridiculously high libido? I try to be GGG, and he does the same for me, but I hate feeling guilty about not having sex with him constantly. I’ve started just telling him to masturbate to porn, and he does it willingly but usually whines a little first about how I “never” want to have sex. Totally false! My body just can’t take it every day. What do I do?
My Boyfriend Is Incredibly Horny
At two years, your boyfriend is getting vaginal intercourse four times a week, MBIIH, along with handjobs, blowjobs, and you standing there naked whenever he likes? Plus a cheerful okay to watch porn and jerk it whenever he feels the need?
You’re not trying to be GGG, MBIIH, you are GGG.
Your boyfriend doesn’t realize how good he’s got it. He isn’t lacking for sex; what he lacks is perspective. He clearly doesn’t understand or appreciate what it’s like to be on the receiving end of all that dick. Saying something like this might help him understand: “You know I love you, honey, and you know I love having sex with you. But if your hole got fucked every time we had ‘sex,’ you wouldn’t want to have ‘sex’ more than four times a week, either.” (I’m putting “sex” in quotes here because your boyfriend defines sex as “vaginal intercourse.” I do not. Oral, handjobs, and visuals-with-a-partner—all of that counts as sex.)
If that doesn’t do the trick, MBIIH, buy your boyfriend a dildo that’s roughly the same size as his dick. Then tell him he can fuck your hole whenever he wants, for as long as he wants—so long as he fucks his own hole first, while you watch, for at least 20 minutes or so. Then he can fuck yours.
That might help him appreciate how good he’s got it.
Never heard of you until a year ago.
I’m into “ball busting”—getting slapped or kicked in the nuts—but my wife was never willing. I did something stupid and saw an escort, just to get my balls busted (no sex), and my wife found out. She was talking about divorce when she told her best friend what was going on. Her friend told her to read your archives first.
You probably don’t hear this from conservative Christian Republicans in red states very often, Mr. Savage, but my sense of honor requires it of me: Thank you for saving my marriage. This “GGG” concept of yours transformed our marriage—it also led my wife to either discover or open up about her kink—and we are happier than ever. It isn’t lost on me that I have a gay man to thank for keeping us from becoming another sad divorce statistic.
Busted And Loving Life Supremely
You’re welcome, BALLS, and all I ask in return for saving your marriage—besides video—is your support for the full legal recognition of mine. Deal?
@150: Yeah, he has had sexual experiences with women a few times: I especially liked where he described a pussy as feeling like a lasagna noodle. But he hasn’t (as far as I know) had relationships with women involving various frequencies of vaginal intercourse, and yeah, it probably wasn’t much fun.
@137/ ankylosaur: That’s really interesting and thanks for being willing to talk about it. Was it difficult for you to overcome the idea that there was something unattractive about you for not being in control of kissing, or the fear that you’d get rejected/laughed at/considered less than a man for not being dominant and in charge? (This is interesting to me cause I’m often worried I’m not dominant enough or enough of a leader.)
All I have to say is that GGG is a dyke that loves getting her ass hole filled……that is soooo fucking HOT!!!
Horny boyfriend, it’s all about compromise, and it’s time he did a little or you need to rethink your relationship. Do you really want to deal with this for much of your life? Constant sexual demands turn sex into a chore rather than a pleasure and a man who can’t provide affection without trying to turn it into sex takes the pleasure of cuddling out of the relationship. Finally, the sulking and whining are signs of an immature person who views you as a vehicle for his satisfaction rather than a person in your own right. He’s sulking and whining because he believes he has some RIGHT to sex from you, and the sex providing module refusing to function is like the toaster not working to him. This is more than a sexual problem; he’s not respecting the fact that you’re a person with your own rights and wants and needs. Quit worrying about satisfying this guy and think about finding a guy who wants to build a sexual relationship between the two of you, taking your needs into consideration as well.
Dan, about your answer to BALLS, this straight person says BRAVO! Perfect.
I’m not judging, but if I was with someone for 2 years and LIVED with him, I hope I’d be having sex more than 4 times a week! As it is I pretty much demand it 2-3 times per day from whatever partner I happen to be with. Most men can’t keep up with me and I wonder if maybe my libido is just amazingly high for a woman, or if they are just freaked out by how much I want it? Who can tell, but I’d gladly take a super-horny man!!
I’m not judging, but if I was with someone for 2 years and LIVED with him, I hope I’d be having sex more than 4 times a week! As it is I pretty much demand it 2-3 times per day from whatever partner I happen to be with. Most men can’t keep up with me and I wonder if maybe my libido is just amazingly high for a woman, or if they are just freaked out by how much I want it? Who can tell, but I’d gladly take a super-horny man!!
@147-148(EricaP), good points. Maybe she is indeed a little young and doesn’t know how to impose herself in a way that is respectful of her boyfriend. When one is young, one is often afraid that whatever one has been able to find is ‘the best they could ever have’ and that keeping it is worth any sacrifice!…
She does say he’s GGG for her. And it could be that she hasn’t mentioned her pleasure because it is well taken care of and not really a problem. But still, she might be young and naive. Hard to say.
@161(Dirty_D), I guess the point is that a super-horny guy would be better off with you (at least sexually) than with a woman like MBIIH. But then, would you feel like her if you happened to end up in bed with a guy whose libido is even stronger than yours, to the point that even you would have a problem similar to MBIIH’s? Maybe not very likely, but still, if it did happen, what would you do?
@156(BlackRose), no problemo! You seem like a good person, and if my personal experience, limited though it may be, has some interest to you, so much the better.
I don’t think I ever felt like ‘not being in control of kissing’ was ever related to any insecurities I had (and indeed I did, and do, have them; my physical type — the thin, non-muscular, bespectacled nerd with the thick books — is not exactly every teenage girl’s dream of a Prince Charming), because, while playing this game, it just felt so damn arounsing that I didn’t really “think” that I wasn’t in “control”.
It’s a little bit as if you asked, ‘don’t you ever feel embarrassed by the fact that you’re naked when you’re having sex? I mean, wouldn’t you be embarrassed if you were naked at work, in front of your colleagues? So why shouldn’t you be embarrassed by being naked while having sex?’
I suppose the answer is that the context is so different — being naked in a sexy context is arousing, being naked in a non-sexy context often is embarrassing and even humiliating (in the bad sense of the word). If need be, think of those lines of naked people being examined by Nazi doctors in Auschwitz. Isn’t that nakedness the very opposite of anything arousing?
Likewise, ‘not being in control of kissing’ as part of a sex game just feels so damn arousing, it’s such a pleasant experience, that it’s even difficult to think of it as similar to the experience of actually not being in control — as when you depend on your boss’ (or graduate advisor’s) permission to go ahead with some specific project, and suddenly you feel s/he’s the one who really decides what you will or won’t be doing in your work. That feels not at all arousing, totally unlike the kissing game.
I suppose I never connected the kissing game to any non-sexy experience of rejection because the whole background/context is so different. Like every man, I have been rejected by women; we all unpleasant this is. But when I’m playing the kissing game with a girlfriend and everything is going well (‘please, please, may I kiss you?’ – ‘No! you may NOT!’), then I’m with someone who obviously wants to please me, someone to whom I actually had to explain how to play the game, someone who is looking at me and actually enjoying the pleasure she sees in my eyes. To me, it’s simply impossible to see/feel this situation as I’d feel a situation of real rejection (‘Nope, not interested in a date with you.’)
Now, it’s always possible that the girl doesn’t enjoy the situation (this did happen, alas, more often than I wanted). Then her displeasure with playing this role would break the bond. Now, this displeasure would actually make me feel insecure — we’re not forming a bond, this is not working, the date isn’t going well. Curiously, in those moments the woman in question would actually be more polite and respectful — and I would feel much worse and much more insecure despite the respect they were showing me, because this respect actually meant that we didn’t click. It would feel like the politeness that strangers share, a politeness that basically means ‘I don’t really want to be intimate with you’.
I hope this answers your question. 🙂
To GGG- If you are just exploring your own body with fingers and toys, then there shouldn’t be any pain and not likely any bleeding. The hymen breaking (if it even happens) isn’t a sudden thing that happens as soon as you put something in your vagina for the first time. It requires some force and intent, so just be gentle with yourself and you should be fine. Fingers should not hurt at all, and for most women neither should tampons. So start with a finger, and then 2, and eventually you can try a small toy and just keep working your way up. If you ever have any pain, just stop, back off, use more lube, and go more slowly. Using this approach will just stretch the hymen out and it may never noticeably break at all. When you started with anal play, I’m assuming you started exploring with something small and worked your way up slowly, right? Pushing anything much larger than a finger into a virgin asshole can be very painful and cause bleeding, just like the vagina, so people usually go slowly with this. I think that’s the problem with a lot of painful and bloody first time sex experiences-an unexersized, unstretched out hole that’s never had anything bigger than a tampon in it is suddenly having a full sized cock pushed into it. That’s pretty painful. That would cause pain and tearing in any orifice. Most women start having sex before they’ve adequately explored their own bodies, and because of this we still have this myth that first time sex is almost always accompanied with pain and bleeding and a breaking hymen. I think that a lot of the pain and some of the bleeding has more to do with the vagina being too quickly stretched beyond it’s comfort zone than from just the hymen tearing.
My own experience: I was a late bloomer to the whole sex and dating thing. I was extremely shy and insecure, so I couldn’t approach guys I was interested in, and it didn’t help that as a straight girl I ended up going to an all women’s college. I am also butch and identified as transgendered, which also made things more complicated in the realm of trying to date men. Anyway, I was in my mid 20’s before I lost my virginity in the traditional sense, so I had a lot of time to gain experience with my own body. I started exploring myself with my fingers in my pre-teen years and never had any pain at all with this. By the time I was in my late teens, I decided I wanted to know what something bigger felt like in there, but I was also afraid of breaking my hymen. I started exploring with things I could find around the house of gradually increasing size. I remember that I had this plastic travel toothbrush holder that I used as a dildo (it was the perfect shape). When I first tried using it, I started feeling a stretching-type pain when I tried inserting it, and it was maybe only half the diameter of an average penis, maybe a little more. I just took it really slow, stopped when it hurt at all, then tried again and was able to go a little farther. Once it went all the way in, it felt AWESOME and was my favorite “dildo”. I can’t imagine going straight from fingers only to trying to force something twice the diameter of that toothbrush holder in like most girls do when they lose their virginity. OUCH. Anyway, once I was in college, I was able to get real “toys” of varying sizes, and when I wanted to try a larger size, I did it gently. I never had anything beyond slight pain (which I was in control of, which is important), and no bleeding. My first boyfriend had a fairly large penis, and I experienced no pain or discomfort the first time we had sex. We just put it in slowly and it was fine. Occasionally, over the years, I would have a teeny-tiny bit of bleeding (like, a little pink on the tissue with my after-sex pee). It could have been that my hymen tore a tiny bit, since it was probably still there and just stretched out. If I haven’t had sex in awhile, I’ll still sometimes feel a bit of that stretching pain during the initial penetration (I have a friend who’s said that that same thing happens to her, and she did have the painful hymen-breaking “first-time”, so I don’t think this is due to the potential intactness of my hymen).
So anyway, I guess my point is, you won’t experience any pain that you aren’t completely in control of. So just take it slow, use lube, and have fun with the exploration.
@18, one solution, he can send her my way. 4 times a week sounds fiiiiiiiiiiiine by me 🙂
A lot of folks have hit the high points–it’s not about how much sex they’re having, where it falls on some frequency spectrum, whether he’s oversexed. They do fall within the typical range, for whatever that’s worth. The problem is his attitude. He whines, he gets cranky. That’s unattractive behavior. While tempting to use avast’s advice, probably ankylosaur’s is the more effective method. Sit down with him and tell him. Have one of those “I feel . . .” conversations.
If the frequency of sex really is a deal-breaker for him, then you should know that as soon as possible. If his behavior about it doesn’t improve, you may find out if that’s a deal-breaker for you.
@160 Dirty D: More power to ya!!
GGG: your hymen might already be broken without you even knowing it. For me it happened gradually, on a few occasions, and there was never any one, sudden, painful, bloody event like the myths would have us believe. If you’re in control of what’s happening through self-penetration, I think odds are high you’ll be much more comfortable with the experience and everything will be fine.
36/Crinoline, 167/Clashfan and others, you are totally correct. He’s being a brat about this, rather than trying to treat her fairly and work out a compromise that’s good for both of them, and that’s the real problem. Chances are that he’ll be like this on other issues, too, not just the frequency of sex issue.
I listening to your podcast about how straight couples (Kardashin) use and abuse marriage rights and no one has a problem with that. well any way you know what you said, I’m a straight female and I just wan to say I loved what you said! I’m going to use your argument in future convos I hope you don’t mind 🙂
@167 You’re absolutely right in calling that “unattractive behavior”. I tend to be the one with the higher libido in relationships, and, as such, realize that I can’t always get what I want. But, if there was a scenario where I was with someone who wanted sex more often than I do, and they whined about it, I think I’d end up wanting LESS sex.
And for the people talking about the frequency of initiation: I can’t say that I regularly initiate, even though sometimes I’d like to. Part of that is residual shyness, part the slight submissive tendency I have, and in part BECAUSE I have the higher libido and don’t want to be turned down. My bf pretty much knows that if he initiates, I’m already game. Though I do give him a lot of credit for helping me become more assertive in bed, there are still things I’m not quite comfortable with.
Do you think BALLS is legit? Or maybe written by a kid at Reed trying to get Dan more credence in the red states?
I was a walking hardon in my teens and 20s. I never found a woman whose libido matched mine. Then somewhere along the line things reversed. I’m nearly 40 now and it seems most of the women I date want to fuck all the time. No doubt there’s an evolutionary function at work, but it’s more fun to see it as the male libido exacting revenge on the female libido for all those years of jerking off. Alas, cruel life! 🙂
@146
Bingo.
@126
Isn’t that implying that PIV isn’t pleasurable for her? I guess what I’m trying to say is – I know Dan and all of you guys are saying that all that other stuff counts as sex. And it may well count as sex for her – but why even bother if it’s not sex for him? Especially if she’s seeing it as a chore. If I were in a situation (god fucking forbid) where I was with a guy who offered say oral because he wasn’t up for sex all the time? I’d tell him to get out and not come back. I’m not saying oral isn’t sex, but I don’t enjoy it, it doesn’t really get me off and it’s deeply deeply unsatisfying. Maybe a guy (or girl) in their 20s doesn’t want a sex life which is mainly comprised of consolation prizes.
I don’t think someone at any age wants that, but especially someone who is at the stage in their life where they presumably have the most access to sexual partners.
I mean, it’s like saying “hey I will only have sex with you x times per week BUT I will play golf with you as much as you want. What you’re sexually unsatisfied?? But look at all the golf!!”
@avast
“What 111 said. It isn’t whether 4x a week PIV is a lot or a little on any sort of objective scale, if such a thing were possible. It’s that, what with 4x a week PIV, plus blowjobs, plus handjobs, plus dropping her clothes on request so he can wank, Boyfriend has a lot of gall calling that “never.””
See above. If I were him I’d feel the same.
“She ought to treat him to about three weeks of “This is what ‘never’ REALLY looks like,” to give him some perspective”
That’s disgusting.
@174 We’re definitely going on the assumption that the boyfriend likes all those “consolation prizes”. For someone like you, who pretty much just wants sex, none of the additional “fluff” those things wouldn’t count as sex. For someone who does enjoy those things, there would be a different perspective.
I know I like PIV more than any other activity most of the time, but, if my bf gets me off over a dozen times, I’m certainly not of the opinion that it didn’t count because his penis wasn’t in me.
Conversely, on occasion, he’d prefer a bj to sex. And he’s also completely satisfied with what we do even if he DOESN’T get off, so long as I do(unfortunately, a med he’s on makes it difficult and sometimes seemingly impossible to get off).
@Kate
I’m sure he likes them – you’d be hard pressed to find a guy who doesn’t like head. But just like the women here saying “I like sex but not when I’m being pressured”, he might like head but not when it’s being offered as a replacement for what he actually wants.
Isn’t that likely the case?
mydriasis, I think you’re probably right about what he wants (lots of PIV), and why he’s not content with what she’s offering.
Re your question @174, We don’t just know what acts she loves, because she doesn’t say. We hear several times about him getting off (through PIV, hand jobs, blow jobs, masturbation), but not once about her getting off. I just wish she were here to tell us more about what she enjoys. It might help us figure out what specific pleasure she’s getting out of the relationship, that might motivate her to satisfy his desire for frequency.
Actually, I know a few guys who not only don’t like head, but will get upset if someone tries to convince them to let them try. Not the point, though.
I definitely agree that could be the case. I’m certainly not arguing the point with you. I do believe that for some people it really is that big of a deal, others prefer to focus on different aspects.
For some people, nothing but PIV is perfect. I’m sort of in the same boat with you about receiving oral, I’d much rather have other things (difference is, I like it occasionally if it’s been awhile). I know for me, personally, if PIV was all we did, I’d feel cheated in that respect, others feel cheated if they only get the other stuff. Takes all kinds, I guess.
@175: You are entitled to your own preferences about what constitutes sex and what doesn’t. That does not invalidate the fact that whatever the specific acts that she performs may be, she is working her ass off for him, and he is mostly being a whiny ass in response.
If in fact all those other things don’t count as sex to him — we have not actually established that, but we can explore it as a hypothetical — the best thing would be if they had a polite conversation where he might express his preferences, at which point she would be off the hook for all this stuff that he doesn’t even enjoy. If, on the other hand, he does enjoy it, just not as much as PIV, he has no business characterizing that as “never.” She is putting a lot of time and effort into this. Blowjobs don’t exactly let you turn them on and walk away, like a dishwasher.
As far as my response being “disgusting” that is also an opinion you are entitled to. Obviously a polite conversation would be preferable, and if it worked there would be no reason to go there. But it’s not like he has been being polite or appreciative himself leading up to that point. Sometimes a proverbial smack upside the head with a fish is not only necessary but richly deserved.
To be clear, I am not advocating 3 weeks of abstinence to teach him to be shut up and be content with 4X a week. I suggest it as a lesson in the difference between “never” and “daily or better with a lot of variety.” Nor would I expect it to go on beyond where he got a clue and apologized profusely for being a dick. I just threw 3 weeks out there as a ballpark number after which pretty much anybody would feel sufficiently deprived that the clue stick finally fell and hit them. In his case I doubt it would take more than about 3 days.
Why does everyone blame the girl on this one, like it’s her fault that he isn’t completely satisfied. And why does it not matter what she wants? As Erica P. pointed out, it really never discusses what she’s getting, just him. She is trying the best she can it sounds like and he is being an ungrateful jerk about it. That’s the issue. What about compromise for her? What about her as a person? There is more to a relationship than sex. If everytime they sit together, he gets horny and demands sex, it sounds like he is using her for more frequent sex. Complaining doesn’t help, when she tries her best.
They should break up, maybe because their libidos don’t match, but mostly because he is unappreciative. They break up, and we’ll see how long it takes him to get laid again. What, is he going to masturbate 10 times a day? What is he like when he’s not getting off from a girl all the time? Everybody has dry spells. I’m just saying, if he really cared about her, he would consider her point of view.
@180: “she is working her ass off for him, and he is mostly being a whiny ass in response.”
Well, she perceives herself as working her ass off for him, and she perceives him as being a whiny ass in response. I’d take it more seriously if we had both sides of the story here.
@182 We very rarely get both sides of the story, your point is moot. We have to go off of what we have and it sounds very much like he is being an ass.
I’m curious what kink Mrs BALLS found she enjoyed!
@18
Jesus Christ on a jumping stick! 4 times a week of PiV is “too much,” and her boyfriend should be “un-fucking-believably lucky to get that much sex in any other relationship” because she lets him fap?
This reads like something off of 4chan. Check your ovaries/balls, and your dignity at the desk please.
I’ve personally never had a complaint from partners in relationships who were on the receiving end multiple times each evening and morning 7 days a week. We were, thankfully, very compatible. Really enjoying a lot of sex (a lot) is not something everyone can handle, and this girl appears simply unable to match her partner’s sexual drive–that is HER own fucking problem.
Your attempt to place her situation in a weird “OMG UR BOYFRIEND TUCH vaginanana HE’S SO LUCKY” perspective is ridiculous, and insulting to men who actually respect and really enjoy pleasing their girlfriend/wife without a single thought of bullshit middle-school sexual politic vagina commodity futures market tug-o-wars.
This is clearly a sexual mis-match, and it’s up to them both to decide whether it’s worth the trouble to stay together despite the mis-match.
@185:
Holy deliberate misreadings, Batman! First off, nowhere in any of my comments do I say that vaginal intercourse four times a week is “too much.” (To be clear, I definitely don’t think it’s too much; I just think that it’s pretty darn respectable, if not exactly Guinness-worthy.) Also, according to MBIIH’s letter, she does a lot more than “let him fap”; she gives him blowjobs and handjobs whenever he asks.
My point, which you appear to have missed, is simple: MBIIH’s boyfriend is getting significantly more sex than the average man in a long-term heterosexual relationship. Other commenters have stated, with some justification, that where MBIIH’s boyfriend stands relative to the overall male population has little bearing on his own degree of satisfaction. If he’s getting more sex than most men and he’s still horny, telling him that he’s getting more sex than most men isn’t going to make him any less horny.
To which I say: fair enough. But I maintain that, like all people who have discovered that their reality falls short of their ideal, MBIIH’s boyfriend would be wise to consider whether he’s realistically likely to do any better before he throws down his hand and asks for a redeal. Yes, I understand that this is an imperfect metaphor; finding a compatible partner is not a purely aleatory proposition (although I suspect there’s a stronger element of chance involved than most people realize). And judging from all the people who have left comments saying that they routinely have awesome sex several times a day, maybe I’m underestimating the odds of MBIIH’s boyfriend finding a partner whose sex drive matches his. To return to the poker metaphor, maybe he’s only asking for two pairs instead of a full house. With this in mind, I will amend my original statement from “he would be un-fucking-believably lucky to get that much sex in any other relationship” to “he would be lucky to get that much sex in most other relationships.” Better?
Why is it “HER own fucking problem”? We could just as easily say it’s the boyfriend who’s failing to match her sex drive — the problem is simply one of excess rather than deficit. At the risk of reading too much into a single sentence, I get the feeling that you’re hostile toward MBIIH for failing in her obvious female duty to be “on the receiving end multiple times each evening and morning 7 days a week” without complaining. And, by extension, you’re hostile towards me, because I dared to take her part.
Your attempt to reduce my actual reading of her situation to “OMG UR BOYFRIEND TUCH vaginanana HE’S SO LUCKY” is equally ridiculous. As for your similarly ridiculous claim that my comment @18 is somehow “insulting” . . . well, as I suggested above, I suspect what you’re actually outraged by is my (and MBIIH’s, and Dan’s) fundamental assumption that pussy isn’t some kind of pleasure-dispensing ATM, open 24/7/365 – just stick your card in the slot and it’ll give you whatever you want! It’ll even say “thank you” afterwards!
On a less vitriolic note, you may “respect and really enjoy pleasing” your wife/girlfriend, but there’s little indication from MBIIH’s letter that her boyfriend does the same. (Obviously, we’re only getting her side of the story, so cum grano salo and all that.) Yeah, she says that he’s GGG and they have an awesome sex life, but it sounds like he’s not particularly concerned with her pleasure when he pressures her for sex.
Actually, I agree with you — just with the proviso that the odds are probably better than even that if he decides to jump ship, he’ll find himself just as mismatched, if not more so, in the next relationship. If suggesting that MBIIH’s boyfriend should weigh the relationship he has not only against what he wants, but also against what he’s likely to get somehow constitutes “bullshit middle-school sexual politic vagina commodity futures market tug-o-war,” then guilty as charged.
I agree: @111 for the WIN!!!
No, 185 it is not “her problem” it’s “their problem” if they’re a couple. Like most problems, it needs to be solved by meeting in the middle.
Multiple partners in relationships…can’t keep one together, huh? Not a big surprise.
As for “matching” what in the world are you talking about? People are individuals. They don’t “match” all the time. It is not any one partner’s responsibility to “match” the other; they have to compromise. Quantity doesn’t equal quality.
Balls should not have to hire an escort. I’d be glad to smack any Christian conservative in the nuts for free.
I am so sorry that BALLS had to hire an escort to get what he so clearly deserves. I would be glad to smack any conservative christian in the nuts for free.
@186: Thanks for the word ‘aleatory.’ I like it. (In the same spirit, it’s ‘cum grano salis.’)
I think finding a partner of a matching sex drive is not a matter of randomness, provided that you prioritize that. You have to have priorities, and I think that being sexually compatible should be one of the top ones, if not the top one.
It’s not hard to find someone who is ok with, say, daily PIV, if you make that a priority.
I think what 185 and I are responding to is this annoying attitude that Dan and others here have, which seems very similar to “you’re lucky to get sex at all, so don’t push it.” Dan’s gotten so many letters from people who have wasted years of their lives in unfulfilling relationships where they’ve settled, that you’d think he’d encourage people to try to find someone compatible, rather than support this whole stereotype that men are lucky just to get sex and shouldn’t expect women to actually like sex. This is the last place I’d expect to hear “settle for an unfulfilling sex life because it could be even more unfulfilling.”
I can’t imagine having a working relationship with someone who couldn’t have PIV more than four times a week. I’d feel frustrated and rejected and unloved, and she’d feel pestered and annoyed, and it would be difficult to remain civil. Just seems like a bad situation all around. The boyfriend in the letter may seem whiny or unpleasant, but it’s really hard to remain good-natured all the time in that kind of situation; I can’t say I really blame him there.
I think people are underestimating how unpleasant that situation may be for the guy, and how important it is to have someone who’s not turning you down all the time, and how hard it is to get along with someone who is.
@BlackRose:
God damn it, I knew that something looked wrong about “cum grano salo.” Of course it’s salis — it’s a fucking genitive, duh. Thanks for catching my idiot mistake; clearly I’ve been too long away from Latin. Mea maxima culpa.
I certainly don’t buy into or have any wish to promote the ugly old myth that women “give” sex out of obligation or kindness and don’t derive any real pleasure from it themselves.* And I do think that, whether or not the overall distribution of intensity of libido for females is entirely symmetrical with the overall distribution of intensity of libido for males (and I kind of suspect that it isn’t) there is (a) a very substantial overlap between the two sexes (b) a lot of variability within each individual sex. All that being said, my offhand guess would be that the supply of sexually ravenous heterosexual women falls short of the demand (and, by the same token, the supply of sexually ravenous heterosexual men exceeds the demand). I won’t speculate on the scope of the supply/demand mismatch, except to say that I don’t think it’s huge, but I do think that MBIIH’s boyfriend would be working against something of a statistical uphill if he went off in search of greener pussy.
Generally speaking, I tend to be a cynic. My fundamental outlook on most things in life — including, but hardly limited to, sex — is not “follow every rainbow”; it’s “just be happy you aren’t starving to death in a gutter.” Still, if MBIIH and her boyfriend aren’t just failing to make one another as happy as they want to be, but are making each other actively unhappy — a possibility that seems increasingly likely to me as this thread goes on — then they’re better off parting ways.
I’m not totally thrilled with your suggestion here and elsewhere that frustrated libido in some measure excuses treating one’s partner poorly. Yes, people tend to behave unkindly when they’re unhappy, but if your partner is making you so unhappy that you can’t behave kindly, then it’s your responsibility to realize that and end the relationship. I still don’t know if MBIIH’s boyfriend is likely to find a woman who has all the qualities that presumably attract him to his current girlfriend, plus a sex drive to match his own — particularly given that he really does sound like a whiny little fucker — but at this point I’m willing to concede that they might be fatally incompatible and better off without each other.
*On a side note, I don’t think Dan buys into this myth either; I think he’s simply trying to combat the equally ugly myth that heterosexual women “owe it” to their partners to be perpetually and unconditionally sexually accessible.
@Blackrose.
Yes! You sort of hit on part of what was bothering me. “Like ohhh you had to have the sex FOUR TIMES this week? Ohh.. tsk tsk, you poor dear. You must be exhausted by all that. The horrible unpleasant things we do for our men. (sigh)”
@avast
I would tend to disagree with you. If women here are allowed to say ‘Oh I like sex, but not when I’m being pressured’ then I think it’s fair for someone who likes PIV to say ‘I like oral, but not when it’s being offered as a substitute for PIV.” Like I said, it’s not about those things not being enjoyable, it about wanting a sex life that isn’t mostly about consolation prizes. Yes those things are probably better than nothing (if you put a gun to my head and put in me in a relationship like that I’d probably take them too) but that doesn’t mean he should just shut up and be satisfied.
Oh and by the way, if he’s being a whiny ass – so is she. This letter is the equivilant of “Daaaannn my boyfriend likes SEX too much. Tell him he’s wrong and bad please?” (She asks Dan if he would characterize her boyfriends libido as “ridiculously” high. Because that’s very sensitive and nice of her).
And yes, I do think using sex as a weapon is disgusting. If you’re willing to do that to someone you have no business being with them. That’s not to say that there aren’t situations where periods without sex are reasonable. For example, if you have a fight with someone and legitimately do not want to have sex with them for a period of time – yes, okay, fine. But deliberately using withdrawal of sex to win an argument or make a point is totally disgusting in my books. I stand by that.
Especially because the point she’d be proving is on the whole “never” thing? Jesus fuck – it’s called hyperbole. You’re allowed to use it from time to time especially to express frustration. That’s what it’s there for. Besides, again she does it too . Do you really think her boyfriend wants to have sex “constantly”.
And frankly, even if he does – can you blame him? If a person is starving, they want to eat constantly. It doesn’t mean they’re a gluttonous pig who would eat all day given that chance. It means they’re hungry. That’s what happens when someone barely gets a chance to eat.
@195
A quickie need not be bad.
actually, cocky, let me put it to you this way.
Do you go to the gym?
Do you got the movies?
Do you go to bars or concerts?
Cooking classes?
Social outings?
People make time for the things that are important to them. I’m a student who’s extremely busy (yes I have a job) and I pretty much have to choose between a social life and a sex life. I don’t do any of the things on the above list.
She probably puked because he had his hand on the back of her head and was slamming her gag reflex. She understandably hated it, and he for whatever reason liked it.
@192 “all the qualities that presumably attract him to his current girlfriend, plus a sex drive to match his own”
I think BlackRose’s point is that people who want sex on the high side of average may have to prioritize sex drive over the other qualities they look for in a partner (beauty, charm, strange, top… 😉 Or pick their partners from the poly community, and then arrange schedules to get the sex they need from multiple partners.
I’m exaggerating on the no social life part. But I pass up a LOT in the way of social events because of school and also because I don’t really drink and most people in my age bracket like to go to bars and etc. I have a very small/limited social life. Small group of close friends sort of thing. I don’t see them as much as I would in a perfect world, especially around midterms.
Sex is exercise. You’re saying you can’t have a good sex life without going to the gym? I huuugely disagree.
@Erica
And by people, you mean men?
No, not especially.
You don’t think most men would prefer to have sex above the average amount?
EricaP & mydriasis: I was going to jump into the fray, but you’ve already basically said what I was going to say.
Mydriasis: Yeah. Who has TIME for sex during midterms or finals, let alone a movie, other than seasoned party animals?
Studying is more productive with breaks. Most people know that. So studying straight through for 6 hours will mean less info absorbed than say 5.5 with a half hour break in the middle.
@205, I think if someone loves an activity more than most people do, and wants a partner to share it with, then that has to be part of the mate selection process. This holds true whether the activity is travel, gaming, historical reenactment, opera, Master/slave power exchange, or PIV sex.
@207 – sex as study aid, I love it!