I am a 28-year-old straight
woman who has been dating a 24-year-old straight male for two months.
Recently, I gave him oral sex while he was seated naked on my couch.
The next day, as I went to sit on the couch, I noticed a brown stain on
the cushion that looked highly suspicious. I have come to the
conclusion that it was, in fact, poo. The stain had a streakish quality
and was located where his buttcrack region was placed during the
encounter. And furthermore, I smelled it. And I know what shit smells
like!
Okay, so the question: WHAT THE FUCK?!?!?!
Is this normal for men? Can I talk to him about this? Should I? I would
like to be open and honest with him, but how do I even broach the
subject?
I suspect that he knows that shit stains are
an issue for him, because we were recently packing for a weekend trip
and he got upset when I went to fold/pack his underwear. He wouldn’t
let me handle the undies because he didn’t want me to “see any stains.”
I didn’t think anything of it, assuming that he left occasional skid
marks as some guys do, and I just made a joke about my period panties
and moved on. But now I am annoyed. He should have realized what had
happened when I blew him and at least tried to clean it up while I was
sleeping or otherwise occupied.
Is pooping on the couch a deal breaker? Or
can we be “cleaner” in the future and protect my bedding and furniture
somehow?
Shit On Furniture Annoys Girl A Lot
Seeing as he’s aware that he has a
problem—he acknowledged as much when he kept his underwear out of
your hands—this straight boy, at the very least, should’ve
thought to spot-check your sofa after grinding his ass into it for the
duration of that blowjob. But you have to take some responsibility,
too, SOFAGAL. You encouraged this young man to plop his naked ass down
on your sofa and proceeded to engage in the kinds of behaviors that
would cause any man to (1) open his legs and (2) grind his ass into
whatever he happened to be sitting on. And where bare asses are set,
shit stains are always a possibility.
So I’d say you’re both at fault, SOFAGAL.
Knowing what he knows about his own ass, the boy should’ve eyeballed
your sofa and discreetly cleaned up after himself. But, again, shit
stains can happen when you allow a nude man to sit his bare ass on your
sofa, SOFAGAL, and commence blowing him. If I may invoke/resurrect a
Rumsfeldism: Prior to this incident, blowjob-related shit stains on the
sofa were, for you, an unknown unknown—something you
didn’t know you didn’t know—but in the wake of this incident,
shit stains are now a known known. And knowing what you now
know, SOFAGAL, you might consider placing a towel—might I suggest
a beige one?—on any sofa that you invite this man, or any other
man, to set his bare bottom on prior to blowing him.
Finally, SOFAGAL, how to broach the subject?
With a sense of humor. Sex can be messy, and shit happens quite
literally sometimes—and not just to men. Let him know that he
tagged your sofa—try to smile when you say it—and then head
to the nearest gay neighborhood to pick up some brown or beige bath
towels. And come on, how bad can it really have been if you didn’t
notice when your nose was down there?
My wife and I got into S&M about two years ago, and it’s done a wonderful job of spicing up an
otherwise very vanilla marriage. It was the odd happy ending to the
usual doomed story of “husband who knows he’s submissive finally gets
courage to tell vanilla wife.” We’re constantly upping our
game—we went from pegging and D/s to flogging to hardcore
beatings pretty swiftly, and we want to continue to push our
boundaries.
Now we’re looking into electrical play. Our
question is about cattle prods. Are they safe? We’ve seen a couple of
BDSM porn movies where a cattle prod gets used, but we have no idea if
these are prop cattle prods or the real deal. And are there any books
out there on safe electro-stim play?
Sub Needs Some Shocks
“Electric play is a great addition to BDSM,
but cattle prods are a bad choice as they’re not designed for use on
humans,” says David X, an electrical engineer who used to work in tech
but today designs e-stim products for Eros Tek. “There are several
reports of muscle injuries and even a few broken bones from
prod-induced involuntary muscle contractions,” David continues. “Burns
and nerve damage are also possible. There really isn’t any way to make
a cattle prod safe, but if you must, use it only below the waist and
make each shock as brief as possible. Make sure the submissive does not
have weight or tension on their limbs and has room for safe
movement.”
And if you’re attached to your balls, SNSS,
and would like to remain attached to them, make sure they’re not tied
to anything. But, again, neither David nor I think you should use a
cattle prod at all. David has a bias, of course, and would prefer to
see you purchase something designed for use on humans—preferably
something designed by him—but your bias-free advice professional
strongly agrees with David: Invest in a product designed for use on
humans.
“The best devices for BDSM electric play are
made for that purpose,” says David. “They can deliver very intense
sensations while being much safer than a cattle prod. As for books,
you’re best off following the instructions that come with whatever
device you purchase. This is another advantage of the BDSM
products—they come with instructions for using them on humans
instead of cattle.”
I’m a 23-year-old straight
female. I have been friends with this guy for the past two and a half
years and would like to continue. Problem is he gets jealous (because
he has the hots for me, but I’m not interested) and a bit distant
whenever there is a boyfriend/date in the picture. I’m not sure if I
should approach him about this or not.
Just Friends Jealousy
Maintaining a friendship with a man who has
the “hots” for you when you’re not interested isn’t kind, JFJ, it’s
emotionally sadistic. Maybe it’s thoughtless sadism on your part, but
it’s sadism nonetheless. Because for as long as you’re hanging out with
him, JFJ, he’s going to delude himself into thinking that he has a
chance with you. And every time a potential boyfriend appears on the
horizon—someone for whom you do have the hots—he’s going to
realize, once again, that he’s a fool and, perhaps, being played for
one. (How many times has he helped you move?)
Your friendship, while a marvelous treasure
under most circumstances, is not a consolation prize for this guy. It’s
a torment. He doesn’t have the strength to cut you out of his
life—something that, if he’s reading, I would strongly advise him
to do—so you’re going to have to do it for him, JFJ. If you
don’t, well, you can’t claim that your sadism is thoughtless anymore.
It’s overt, conscious cruelty—”mean girl” bullshit. And if you’re
not careful, Garfunkel & Oates will write a song about you. 
@lilin
If you weren’t being taken advantage of when you helped friends move, that’s great!
Some people do take advantage of others, though–and although moving is the classic and extreme example, it can also boil down to always getting rides from someone or letting them buy the alcohol/pot/food and never bringing it yourself or a million other ways a person can take advantage of someone who would rather be close to the object of his/her affection than have some self-respect and boundaries. People who think doing stuff for someone will earn them boygirlfriendhood are stupid. People who take advantage of their stupidity are douchetrucks.
@Julie in Eugene (and others)
The girl is complaining about the friendship. Dan is saying that it’s not going to change and if she doesn’t like it, she’d better get out. Now if dude suddenly mans up and goes “whoa, I’ve been devoting my life to someone who is never going to fall in love with me–I need a little distance to sort myself out and maybe we can be friends again in a few years,” that would solve everybody’s problem, probably in the best possible way. But since he may not be reading this week’s column, it’s up to the person who wrote in to think about what she can do to solve her problem.
Has JFJ ever actually unequivocally told this guy she does not want to fuck him? Has he ever actually brought it up or made a move?
There is nothing worse than a guy who hangs around a woman hoping to get laid, eagerly awaiting each breakup as the time he can show up for emotional support so she will realize just how cool he is and finally fuck him, even though she has told him no like 50 times. Then again, this is the basis for almost every romantic comedy ever made. If she is not careful, eventually he will chase her to the airport, destroying seven or eight fruit stands and roach coaches on the way. Then he will jump on the same plane and make a huge scene in the hope that it will finally convince her to fuck him.
Color me silly, but did SOFAGAL bother to check out what her bj receiver had eaten beforehand? I don’t know about anyone else, but if you have a sensitive tummy and you, say, get a bit wreckless with your quisine.. well, things happen. Course, if he wasn’t afraid of talking to SOFAGAL.. his woopsie wouldn’t have been much of a shocker in the first place.
How DARE JFJ be attractive to someone and not reciprocate or cut them out of her life completely! Seriously, this is not her problem. It’s the problem of dudes who pretend to like someone as a friend ‘just in case’ or who have no interest in being friends with girls and women they might never fuck.
Or maybe she should just uglyfy herself to prevent shit like this. Or never befriend any straight guys, just in case she leads them astray!
Wow, Dan, I disagree about 75% with your advice to JFJ. It breaks down like this:
1. If Person A has the hots for Person B, and Person B wants to be “just friends”, then the onus is on Person A to put up or walk. Any “torment” suffered by Person A is entirely self-inflicted. The attraction of Person A to Person B is Person A’s responsibility, and putting any of that on Person B’s shoulders is, frankly, bullshit. It is entirely possible to have a “just friendship” with someone to whom you’re attracted. I know. I’ve done it.
2. If Person A is being a jealous whiner whenever Person B is dating someone else, Person A should STFU. This is not a natural consequence of Person B’s “torment” of Person A; this is Person A being a douchebag.
3. If Person A does not STFU, then Person B should cut off the friendship. Not to save Person A from “torment”, but because Person A is being a fucking douchebag.
The notion that Person A’s attraction to Person B entitles them to any special consideration from Person B is complete horseshit, IMNSHO. Yes, Person B shouldn’t be a big jerk and rub Person A’s nose in their other relationships or anything like that, but that sort of thing is covered by basic human decency.
Gotta love all the women writing in to criticize the advice to JFJ and protesting that they aren’t bitches for continuing to accept friendship, and probably favours, from some poor slob who is hooked on them. Did Dan touch a nerve?
Of course, JFJ’s guy bears responsiblity for his own actions and, of course, he ought to move on, stop torturing himself (or attempting to engage in emotional blackmail, if that’s what he’s doing) and find someone who’s interested back, but that doesn’t mean the girl has no responsibility whatsoever.
Certainly, you don’t have to dump every guy friend who expresses a romantic interest in you that you don’t reciprocate. Some (maybe even most) guys can handle the switch to “friend mode” or have sense enough to end the friendship themselves if they can’t.
However, if you know that the guy can’t handle it (and seeing him get in a snit every time you date another guy is a pretty big clue) and you continue to do whatever it is you are doing to maintain the friendship (and for friendship to have any meaning you must be doing something: inviting him out, accepting his invitations out, calling him, hanging out at his place, inviting him to hang out at your place, or whatever) then, sorry, honey, but you are being a selfish bitch, and you can’t rationalize it by saying he could stop it if he wanted to.
@55 You’re right in that it’s the girl that feels like there’s a problem. She asked, should I approach him about this? Dan says (essentially), no, you should break off the friendship because you’re being a bitch. I think that’s it’s a little ridiculous to attack her for this situation (and maybe indicative of a generational gap issue? Dan is in his 40s right?).
My advice to her would be to have an honest conversation with this guy about the situation (he likes her; she says it’s not going to happen but she enjoys the friendship; she tells him if he can handle being friends with no possibility of romantic involvement then they should remain friends; if he can’t they shouldn’t). I wouldn’t confront him on the jealousy thing alone, without having the bigger conversation.
In regards to SOFAGAL. I had an ex who had the same problem. As soon as we were doing something/anything that involved him on his back there were stains on my bed. One time we were in a nice hotel in Paris and he got it on one of the nice white towels! It’s a constant problem. If it happens once it most likely has happened before and will happen again.
I think its disrespectful to engage in sex of any form if you don’t think you’re clean (unless your partner likes that). Just like Dan says about anal sex. Ya shit happens, but if you are respectful of your partner you will try your best to be as clean as you can.
OH and to JFJ.. I have a similar issue with prefering male friendships over friendships with women (I have a lot more interests in common with men I meet and tend to be a little more acidic than your sugar-tongued female).. just offering my condolences. The list of lost friendships because I’ve had to cut off relationships with guys who were throwing tantrums and wrenches in my romantic relationships (ftr I don’t tease, only my family has ever helped me move and I always go dutch with friends unless it’s a special occasion) is getting embarassingly long and I can sympathize.
Anyways, the fact is that both situations exist. At the Bitch end of the spectrum, a girl leading on a guy who’s smitten, accepting favors and encouraging his affections, all while insisting on just being friends. At the other end of the spectrum, a girl who knows a male friend is smitten, is open and honest about the fact that nothing is ever going to happen, doesn’t take advantage of the situation, and they are able to have a quality friendship.
I think some of us are just objecting to the fact that Dan automatically assumed this woman was a bitch. Maybe he has information we don’t have, but, based on the info in the published letter, we can only assume that Dan thinks that all women in this situation are bitches.
Biggie (#15) sounds like an embittered “Nice Guy”
I had a close male friend who, after several years and maybe one one-night stand, then followed by several more years of both of us dating other people. Suddenly, after years of no erotic chemistry, my friend developed a huge crush on me. Totally out of the blue. We tried to hook up, but I freaked out and couldn’t go thru with it. We’d been friends for so long, I could not see us as lovers.
However after that, he became very jealous and accused me of victimizing him – molesting him, in fact – because I dared to consort with other men in his presence. I’m not talking big PDAs, we were all socially appropriate, but just the very idea that I would date someone else was suddenly too much for him. He was such a jerk about it that other people in our social circle noticed, even though I hadn’t said anything to anyone.
I think guys have strong emotions, and they’re not always logical – my friend just got stuck in a loop. We weren’t very close friends after that, but it’s been over 15 years since we’ve even hung out, and I don’t have hard feelings about it anymore.
In regards to SOFAGAL —
Take it from a gay guy that hates dirty asses. Buy some baby wipes and keep them in your bathroom…say things like how fresh your ass is with baby wipes. Maybe do some anal exploring of your own and open the conversation with “I want to try anal, but want to make sure my ass is clean.” Drop hints about showering after shitting and ‘touching up’ with baby wipes.
If that doesn’t work…buy the guy some maxi pads or panty liners..that’s just gross.
@ 37 – Dominant/submissive
About poop on sofas. In Europe, they have this great thing called a BIDET. We all know what this is by now. Great for washing the ass and the genitals. Here in the good ol’ USA, we don’t have bidets very much. But you can fake it with a gallon jug of water next to the toilet. You figure it out. Wash your ass with water each time, then wash your hands with soap really well. This low tech method is common in India and other parts of the world. Clean butt, no skid marks. I’ve been doing it for many years…
Exactly, hazmat. Guys SO have strong emotions. Nearly every woman who has stuck up for JLJ uses the term “crush,” when us guys immediately recognize something in her letter which tells us that sure ain’t it. Yes, guys have crushes, but they also have some intense feelings that aren’t quite lust, aren’t quite love, it’s a combination of those & something else.
Of course, the guy in this equation needs some advice as well, and I think Dan was remiss in not giving him the ‘masochistic’ label to JLJ’s ‘sadistic’ one. If y’all re-read Dan’s words, he calls it “thoughtless sadism,” which pretty much applies to everyone at least once in their romantic lives. He’s simply warning her that anything more after his advice will go under the label of *conscious* sadism, which is a no-no. But once you get past those labels, his ultimate advice is sound: If you’re really friends w/ this guy, do what’s best for him & tell him it will never work, to stop wasting his time, and get on finding another woman.
As a female who’s been on the other end of JFJ’s situation (smitten with a guy who was “kind of, sort of” taken and trying to stay friends while hoping that something greater would materialize), I totally agree with Dan’s advice. Cut him loose. It’s the kindest thing to do. Be gentle but firm. You may reconnect later when he’s gotten over you and is in a relationship himself — that way you’re on more equal footing.
Sounds like SOFAGAL’s boyfriend has problems wiping himself properly. Yeah, skidmarks happen…but enough that he freaked out when she went to help pack his underwear? He needs better tp and asswiping skills.
And Dan…seriously, completely ignoring the possibility that the guy with the attraction to JFJ is the one who wanted to keep being friends in the first place…come on! She said it’s been over two years. He’s had plenty of time to walk away himself.
As a female who’s been on the other side of JFJ’s situation (smitten with a guy who was “kind of, sort of” taken and trying to stay friends while hoping that something greater would materialize), I totally agree with Dan’s advice. Cut him loose. It’s the kindest thing to do. Be gentle but firm. You may still reconnect later, when he’s gotten over you and is in a relationship himself — that way you’re on more equal footing.
I can see where a woman can use a man and not really give anything back. (I’m talking about friend stuff like does she give him a ride if his car is in the shop, buy him lunch, or is just a fun person to be around?)
But, I can also see where a woman is not using him, but he thinks if he sticks around long enough, she’ll eventually date him. If he’s not getting anything from the friendship (would he be friends with her if he was married?), then he and she should just go his separate ways. In that case, he’s not being her friend. And if he’s being a jerk to her, she should ask herself why she’s his friend.
Likewise, if she is only using him to build her self esteem and would be upset if he dated another woman (but doesn’t want to date him herself), then she’s not being a friend, either.
The sexual attraction is not really the important part. What they should ask themselves is what they get out of the friendship and what they put into the friendship. It should even out. If it doesn’t, that tells them something.
Dan was right on with JFJ. It’s not a matter of “bitches be all manipulative” or “guys are SOOO deluded.” JFJ wrote to Dan because she was upset that a guy she KNOWS has a romantic interest in her acts distant when she shows romantic interest in someone else. No one gets to have it both ways.
It’s unrealistic for her to expect him to be all “DO TELL!” about her latest boyfriend when she knows he’s waiting for her to finally declare her undying love for HIM. Sure, he’s a fool for waiting, and that’s his choice. But he didn’t write in. She wrote in, pissed he wasn’t happy to hear about her fucking other dudes.
If she wants to maintain a friendship (which ideally is a mutual enjoyment of each other’s company on equal terms) with this guy, she’ll have to realize he’s going to fade out of the picture whenever she has a romantic relationship going on. Expecting him to “suck it up” is indeed inhumane on her part (even if it’s equally foolish on his to keep waiting).
And yes, it’s all so painfully 20’s that I just want to go back in time and shoot my college self in the face.
as a woman, i think if you’re going to maintain a successful, healthy friendship with a straight man who is clearly interested in you, you need to do BOTH of the following things:
1) be upfront about your feelings (or lack thereof) but not insist you “talk” about them all the time
2) be his very best wingman. guys with cute chicks get way more attention from other girls than guys without.
It’s hard to tell if Dan’s advice to JFJ was overly harsh, since she didn’t give much background. First, how does JFJ know her friend has the “hots” for her? If he confessed his crush and she plainly said she wasn’t interested, the onus is not hers to spare his feelings. She was honest with him, and if her disinterest is too painful HE needs to walk away. If she’s guessing based on his behavior, she needs to bring it up directly and let him explain himself.
Next, I would ask if she’s leading him on in any way? It’s only sadism if she’s giving false hints he MIGHT be able to get in her pants if he helps her move again. You’re quick to jump on her for emotionally manipulating him, but fading out on your “friend” whenever she gets a boyfriend is pretty manipulative too. It’s normal for sexual tension, jealousy etc to enter friendships at times, but if they are real friends BOTH of them owe each other the plain truth about their feelings rather than a bunch of vague headgames.
As for the shit stain, just clean it up. And use a towel next time. If you’re willing to stick your face in his crotch and swallow his babies, what’s the big deal about a little poo?
Not even going near the cattle prod story. Whenever I hear about these dangerous BDSM things, I wonder what these people plan on telling the ER staff and/or police? Eesh.
It’s hard to tell if Dan’s advice to JFJ was overly harsh, since she didn’t give much background. First, how does JFJ know her friend has the “hots” for her? If he confessed his crush and she plainly said she wasn’t interested, the onus is not hers to spare his feelings. She was honest with him, and if her disinterest is too painful HE needs to walk away. If she’s guessing based on his behavior, she needs to bring it up directly and let him explain himself.
Next, I would ask if she’s leading him on in any way? It’s only sadism if she’s giving false hints he MIGHT be able to get in her pants if he helps her move again. You’re quick to jump on her for emotionally manipulating him, but fading out on your “friend” whenever she gets a boyfriend is pretty manipulative too. It’s normal for sexual tension, jealousy etc to enter friendships at times, but if they are real friends BOTH of them owe each other the plain truth about their feelings rather than a bunch of vague headgames.
As for the shit stain, just clean it up. And use a towel next time. If you’re willing to stick your face in his crotch and swallow his babies, what’s the big deal about a little poo?
Not even going near the cattle prod story. Whenever I hear about these dangerous BDSM things, I wonder what these people plan on telling the ER staff and/or police? Eesh.
It’s hard to tell if Dan’s advice to JFJ was overly harsh, since she didn’t give much background. First, how does JFJ know her friend has the “hots” for her? If he confessed his crush and she plainly said she wasn’t interested, the onus is not hers to spare his feelings. She was honest with him, and if her disinterest is too painful HE needs to walk away. If she’s guessing based on his behavior, she needs to bring it up directly and let him explain himself.
Next, I would ask if she’s leading him on in any way? It’s only sadism if she’s giving false hints he MIGHT be able to get in her pants if he helps her move again. You’re quick to jump on her for emotionally manipulating him, but fading out on your “friend” whenever she gets a boyfriend is pretty manipulative too. It’s normal for sexual tension, jealousy etc to enter friendships at times, but if they are real friends BOTH of them owe each other the plain truth about their feelings rather than a bunch of vague headgames.
As for the shit stain, just clean it up. And use a towel next time. If you’re willing to stick your face in his crotch and swallow his babies, what’s the big deal about a little poo?
Not even going near the cattle prod story. Whenever I hear about these dangerous BDSM things, I wonder what these people plan on telling the ER staff and/or police? Eesh.
It could be awesome, JFJ. But it depends on what level of friendship you guys share. I took a chance and became physical with my best male friend and we’ve been very happy together for 3 years. Nobody respects you or knows you better than your BFF.
#68 – Thanks! I think what got me confused was the big “D” and little “s”. I thought he was talking about some kind of multiple “D’s”. Yes, I’m a bit dense.
Did the guy have shit stains because (1) he shat or (2) he doesn’t wipe his own ass well? If it’s the former, well, that gives meaning to the old saw, “I’m so happy I could just shit.” But if it’s the latter, then may I suggest (a) shitting only before you shower, or (b) investing in some WIPES, some of those most wipes you find in the toilet paper section of your super market, and use those EVERYTIME after you shit. And to those of you who just use toilet paper, YOU ARE NOT CLEANING ALL OF YOUR SHIT. GET SOME WIPES – you will literally, when using those wipes, *see what you’ve been missing.* And it ain’t pretty (unless you like shit).
I recently cut ties with a girl with whom I had the same dynamic as JFJ and her sad sack. It was an intensely painful thing to do, but was absolutely the right choice. Ladies: If you insist on remaining friends with guys whom you know carry an unrequited crush on you, you’re only doing them harm. It’s a completely one-sided, parasitic relationship, and you owe them the decency of ending it.
Dan was dead on with JFJ.
Yeah, the guy bears some responsibility too. But you know what? It’s a fuckload easier to break an unrequited love pairing off when you’re NOT the person who’s infatuated.
Continuing it when you know what’s going on and you’re the person holding all the power is always cruel. I’m sure most of us have been on both sides of that dynamic at some point in our lives, but that doesn’t make what Dan had to say wrong, either.
I think SOFAGAL should take a shit on her boyfriend’s couch. That would make her point much more effectively than words ever could.
Interestingly, I think the same advice would also solve JFJ’s problem, as most men will be far less attracted to a woman that has taken a shit on their furniture.
@rcd: and you don’t know how to Google.
Being dense is forgivable. Being lazy about it is not.
when are the vast majority of people going to realize the only reason that men want women friends is to eventually fuck them and until then its nice to have a beer with them once in awhile.
When are men going to realize that the vast majority of women that want to be your friend in a non-romantic way is a: dick on hold situation. You are the go to guy that they can be with when all other options are off the table. An emotional sadist if you will.
Yes, yes, there are nice girls with the best of intentions-but the guy just wants to fuck you, really, he does. Maybe he thinks of it as Makin’ love underneath a Cherry Moon all in black and white, but it is still the same thing. You’ve heard this a million times, it is true, you, most of you, aren’t that great, seriously, most of us aren’t that great either, I know, we know it, we just really want to screw that is it.
As to whose fault it is?
Both, but really, if you are a nice girl, a nice person with aspirations to nicety in any level: you let the bastard off the hook. If he still comes around keep telling the bastard that the road to coitus is closed. That you have no intention of being his SO, GF, whatever acronymn you choose.
It is very difficult to have friends that are of the opposite sex, difficult like being a tolerant nazi. Unless, unless, and here is the big Unless: the girl is ugly. Seriously, women are better judges of this. Men really find it difficult to rate themselves in this manner. They are all average to gorgeous, but girls know. If you are ugly the guy is your friend because he thinks, at worst, he is average, and that you are a cool chick. So, if you are ugly and you like a guy as a friend-he likes you as a friend too.
Man, I have been JFJ so many times. Sometimes it is a situation where we have many similar friends. What, I am supposed to be an asshole then? Ignore him when we are all together. PLEASE.
Sometimes they are a co-worker or otherwise similar situation. So, I have to ignore them when they come to me for help, or if my computer breaks? OK…
And, sometimes they are just friends. I told this one friend that I did not want to date him when he asked. But, we had already become very close friends, and even he agreed that he did not want to break ties. I could tell this man things I couldn’t even tell my close girlfriends…he just knew me so well. I was not attracted to him, he was shorter than me (I am very tall), and overweight. But, I loved him for who he was. Finally, he wore me down. He made me feel like such a shit for not wanting to be with him. We dated for 4 months. During this time, he fell completely in love with me. And I never changed the way I felt for him. I became very mean to him, I could not understand why he couldn’t keep his emotions in check. It was very unfair. I feel horrible for what happened, and I broke up with him. I lost a great friend that I still miss. If he had just let it go, and not make me feel bad for not wanting to date him, none of that would’ve happened, and maybe we could’ve stayed friends.
So, yes, the guy is a masochist. And, he is most likely waiting for her to get drunk, or just give in already, which will NOT go well. If she is not interested, she’s not interested. He will not be the love of her life. But, it sounds like he is a very important friend to her. Why does that make her a mean sadist? Let’s keep our misogyny in check, people……
I find it really irritating (and somewhat misogynistic)that everyone is assuming that JFJ is taking advantage of the guy. That is such a stereotype, that women take advantage of guy friends and are teases. Maybe she is doing that. But maybe she isn’t, and the guy is being a manipulative asswipe despite being told (or shown) repeatedly that it’s not going to happen. And I say this as a woman who has been “led on” by a female friend, complete with all types of emotional bullshit. (Calls at midnight to whine about sucky relationship? Flirty touching? You betcha)
Oh, and one other thing, I have had feelings for men that did not want me for anything other than a friend. And, when I realize that they are not going to be with me romantically, I will walk away from the relationship. ON MY OWN. Same goes with men who are not good to me IN a relationship. Why is it that the poor sap is the victim and she is the aggressor? Where is his responsibility, and manhood? Bear-out.
Dan, incendiary advice to JFJ! Comment log’s filling fast. I’m glad you gave advice other than the common pablum.
My advice: JFJ should sleep with the sap. Odds are she’s lousy in bed, he’d realize it, and they could continue being friends. If she’s not lousy-by-nature, most of us are lousy when we’re not that into it.
At the cost of an evening of sweaty fun, she can have her friendship back. And, oh, she might learn something. It’s just one night of sex, not the end of the universe.
@ 85: Brilliant advice for SOFAGIRL and yes, probably a very effective option for JFJ as well.
@ 87: Christ… where to begin? Buddy, you’ve got some real deep-seated issues.
And as for this JFJ thing: I don’t think it’s unfair to JFJ to tell her to stop tormenting the guy, even if he’s being an immature, manipulative jackass—which he obviously is—and even if she doesn’t mean to torment him—which she probably doesn’t. They’re both at fault here, but as somebody already pointed out, she’s the one who wrote in, not him. What’s Dan supposed to tell her? It’s pretty obvious that neither of them is very fulfilled by their friendship, so it’s hardly misogynistic to point out that she ought to do the responsible thing and tell the guy to take a hike. Maybe she’s perversely enjoying the jealous attention she gets from him, and maybe he’s perversely enjoying the negative attention he gets when he acts like a sulky baby, but even if only one of these statements is true, then they’d both do well to find different company. It’s sad, but that’s just how it goes sometimes. And it doesn’t necessarily make either of them fundamentally bad people. Can anybody here honestly say that they’ve never behaved like a total jackass once or twice when they were emotionally overwhelmed or confused? I mean, isn’t this kind of the main reason Dan’s got a job?
Anyway, I’ve been on both sides of this kind of thing, several times over the years (and yet I haven’t become jaded and angry like Mr 87, above!), and obviously it’s tough having unrequited feelings for somebody you’re close to. BUT: NEITHER is the other side easy to be on—anybody who says it’s no big deal, emotionally, to be in JFJ’s place either never has been or is just a really callous person (or, yeah, maybe a sadist, but what I think Dan meant by “thoughtless sadism” was something along the lines of callous insensitivity). Sometimes it can be worked through, but even when it can, once it’s gotten to the point where things are going the way they are for JFJ and her idiot friend, the two people are going to need a bit of time apart.
And finally, @ 88/90 (Bear): You sound like a pretty thoughtful person, but you clearly made a mistake when you let that guy guilt-trip you into getting romantic. Pity is a really shitty foundation for any relationship, as I’m sure you’d agree.
@88:
No, you couldn’t have stayed friends with that guy. You never were friends. You may have thought of him that way, but you are never a friend to a man who wants a romantic relationship with you that he isn’t getting. He may say otherwise, but in his heart of hearts, you’re a woman he isn’t fucking yet.
What’s worse, the less of an asshole that he seems, the more true this is.
Yeah, guys in that relationship should sack up, but the truth is, most of them aren’t emotionally equipped to do so. In that situation, you’re the stronger party and most of the responsibility becomes yours.
I get crushes on guys who aren’t available sometimes. I don’t expect him to cut me off because I might get hurt, even assuming he becomes aware of my crush, which he’s unlikely to. I can guard my feelings. If he’s interested in being my friend, I’m going to continue to be his friend. He’s not taking advantage of me. I’m in charge of what I offer to give. If it’s too painful for me and it’s detracting from the attention I owe my own partner, or the energy I should be putting into finding a partner, it’s up to me to make some distance. If the object of my crush had to take action, I’d feel I was the one acting out of control and putting him on the spot.
If a guy had an unrequited crush on me, he’d never have reason to complain that I was leading him on, tricking him into doing chores for me, or manipulating him into buying me stuff. I don’t, as a rule, let guys buy me stuff, and I sure as heck wouldn’t let a guy do it if there were the slightest chance he’d take it as some kind of down-payment. That part of my life isn’t for sale, not for cash, not for movie tickets, not for dinner, not for drinks. If I’m letting a guy buy me something, you can bet he’s not confused about where he stands with me or harboring any unrealistic hopes.
Friends owe each other honesty and abstention from manipulation, period.
I’m interested in what “it’s only castles burning” said @70, about how crushes are somehow different for guys, not quite lust, not quite love. Do you really think they’re different from what we women get? Isn’t it same bone-crushing feeling? Where the object of your affection consumes your heart and your libido?
Re: SOFAGAL. I’ve never left skidmarks on a couch, but I did have a problem with them on my shorts for a while, and not for lack of fastidious wiping. The issue turned out to be one that’s insidious and (I suspect) quite common for many guys as we get older: Body hair.
I first detected the “blighty-whitey” problem around the same time I started noticing irritating little hair sprouts afflicting my ears, nostrils, and eyebrows. It took a little while to put it all together (since I don’t routinely check my butt in the mirror), but I eventually concluded that the trouble was rooted in ass-crack fur. And so, just as I trim other wayward tufts in my quest to be a well-groomed guy, I started (very carefully) using a disposable razor on my butt crack as part of my shower routine. The skidmark problem went away, and I got the added advantage of an asshole that’s more user-friendly for butt play. Win-win.
Regarding SOFAGAL, it sounds like the stain was not very big/bad if she had to get down and smell it to tell. Sceanario: Suppose the last shit he took was at a public toilet or at work with that TP with absorptive power of wax paper. Then he shows up at her place, she plops him down on sofa with a hot BJ. Is he supposed to say “hold it, I think I need to clean my ass first”?
It could be a general hygiene problem or maybe he just didn’t have an opportunity to clean up.
I have to admit, upon reflection, that I’d be uncomfortable hanging around a guy who had an unrequited crush on me. As Auden said, “If equal affection cannot be/Let the more loving one be me.” That’s one reason a guy who’s off-limits for me is unlikely to find out about my crush — I’d assume he’d be equally uncomfortable.
Crushes burn out. And yes, it’s possible for men to have friends who are women even if they haven’t the slightest intention of fucking them at any point. Deep soulmates? Maybe not. But grownup companions they trust in a number of situations, sure.
What is it with straight men and their inability to wipe their fucking asses? Are they waiting for us to do it for them?
Dan, I think your advice to JFJ is way off. A real friend is someone who is your friend regardless of who you’re dating. It sounds to me like her “friend” is a classic “Nice Guy.”Feigning friendship in hopes of getting laid isn’t being a friend.
To read more about “Nice Guys,” I suggest checking out this fantastic explanation: http://moderateleft.com/?p=3763
The secret to a skid mark free life is extra whiping! sure, you’re contributing to the waste of paper products, but you won’t be leaving an unwelcome mark anywhere in the world, and it will be safe for someone to include some lovin on the taint during a BJ. Moist whipes help too, keep them at home and use them if they are available at a friends home. Finally, if it’s the last day of use for a washcloth in the shower, start that day off extra fresh if you know what I mean. Take it from the hairy guy.
“You got your electro-stim in my emo metrosexual boytoy hag bitchmonster.”
“You got your emo metrosexual boytoy hag bitchmonster in my electro-stim.”
They look at each other.
“MmmMmMmmMmMmmm.”
Every step I carried those boxes up the stair will haunt my soul for eternity.
The thing almost everyone is missing in the advice about the “just friends” letter is that the guy acts like a jealous jerk. If he was just one of those “nice guys” that never gets the girl, it would be fine. But he’s not always a nice guy. If he can’t deal with the fact this girl wants to date other people, then he needs to move on.
There’s a difference between a guy who wants a relationship and gets stuck in the friend zone and is okay with it and a guy who gets stuck in the friend zone and can’t adjust.
I dunno, I understand about LJL. I’m a 24 year old girl, who had a huge crush on this old coworker of mine. Unfortunately, I moved to another country, but he kept pursuing me, said he liked me, but wasn’t into an LDR… and then after 5 months of very dedicated friendship, suddenly started seeing another chick.
I got jealous, and I’ve been trying to avoid him… but he keeps talking to me! When I asked why he was still trying to be friends with me, he only responded with,” Why not? Women think too much.”
If this girl is actively chasing after him, ya know, giving him encouragement and signs, and not giving him space and backing the hell off, he’s NEVER going to get over her, and I have to wonder if she pulls the same bullshit line that this guy’s mutual friends have pulled on me; that if I cut off contact, I’m somehow a drama queen and emotionally immature, that somehow not wanting to be subjected to further romantic rejection is a sign of weakness.
Finally, I have to admit, I’ve never gotten why you would want to be friends with someone you’ve romantically rejected, ie told “you are not enough.” Maybe casual acquitances, but why close buddies? To make yourself feel more popular?
I agree completely with Dan’s advice to JFJ. Having been in the same situation as JFJ’s strictly platonic friend 3 times in a row, and having wasted my entire adult life on three friendships with people I was crazy about but who didn’t want to date me, I can say with certainty that in such cases trying to stay friends does much more harm than good. In this case, it sounds like the friendship is preventing JFJ’s friend from dating other women, who could make him very happy. If JFJ really cares about her friend, she should take Dan’s advice. JFJ’s friend probably knows that it’s for the best too. And if he is anything like me, he will soon come to appreciate the feeling of freedom that comes from no longer constantly being around someone who is making him miserable.
If JFJ takes her friend’s feelings seriously, then she should treat ending their friendship as she would a breakup (because that is how it will feel to her friend). If they really do care about each other, she and her friend could try to reconnect after about a year, by which time her friend will have hopefully moved on.
This type of situation is no one’s fault; sometimes these things just happen 🙁 But Dan’s advice is the best way to deal with it.