LOL, like that will happen.

Have you ever seen RuPaul's Drag Race?

LINDY FOR THE WIN!

(If you guys fight, I'd like to see the video.)

didn't dan already write a whole thing about how he's never said anything slandering about fat people?

either way i haven't seen him say such things and i'd like to see so... linky~

@1: That depends...if being gay were a choice would you think it was morally wrong? Doesn't make much sense to me that it would be.

I can't agree with you more, Lindy, and I'm rooting for you to call out Dan each and every time he stigmatizes fat people.

@1, there can be myriad reasons why a person is fat. Since few people can know exactly why that is for any individual person, what gives someone the power to unilaterally judge someone else? How about NOT judging them on an arbitrary and inconsequential metric?

Dan's issue is a classic one: in defense of being ostracized and sidelined himself, he ostracizes others. I'd like to see him be a better person than that.

Oh, snap.

Isn't the whole point of this entry that the argument that's being made against gay marriage is absurd?

I didn't choose to be straight...I do, however, choose to eat chocolate cake. Num.

He doesn't equate the stigmatization of fat people vs. gay people. He imagines a scenario where fat people are as equally stigmatized as gay people and that reveals how far from reality scenario is.

Though not his point, he shows that fat people are stigmatized to a significantly less amount than gay people, at least in terms of marriage equality.

doubtful! all dan has done (for me anyway) with all of his bashing of every other group that isn't gay has made me really sick and tired of hearing about gay marriage and gay rights to the point that i just don't care anymore. his message is meaningless because he only cares about one group and thinks it's perfectly fine to turn around and marginalize any other group he wants because he happens to be a part of a marginalized group within our society. boo fucking hoo. get over yourself. i'm female, so my marginalization trumps yours. (that makes as much sense as dan's gayness trumping the marginalization of fat people or poor people or ugly people or whatever other group he is using to make his point). i would love to never hear another word from dan savage. unfortunately we all can't get what we want.

Of course he won't stop stigmatizing fat people. Fat people and gay people are natural enemies, like ninjas and pirates. Or the Narn and Centauri. There can never be anything but vicious animosity between them.

Just as the Christofascists like to claim they don't hate the sinner, only the sin, I'm sure Dan would say he doesn't mean to stigmatize the fattie, just the fat.

(Anyone who wants to hijack this thread into the gutter to discuss the sexy fat girl storyline on Glee, that's fine by me.)

@11: I think you may be reading a different Dan Savage than the rest of us. "Bashing of every other group that isn't gay"? Um, no.

(And if you don't want to "hear another word from" him - STOP READING HIS BLOG.)

Will Dan stop?

Fat chance

Thus starteth thine shitstorm.

He only would have to do so if the arguments are valid, which they are not. If fat people were legally the same as gay people (both allowed to marry or both not allowed to marry), then logically, yes he would have to.

@13 But Lando and G'Kar became friends. Sometimes, miracles can happen.

Sigh- I'm going to have to call you out on this Lindy. Dan's post was not equating one to the other. It was showing how wrong it is to deny basic human rights to any group based on a completely arbitrary characteristic.

And for the record- From everything I've read from Dan on the subject of fat people I get the impression that he doesn't hate them- he merely dislikes the excuses fat people make in this country of overweight people to justify their unhealthy lifestyle. He doesnt agree with the notion that being severely overweight is just as healthy and I have to agree with his point of view.

But none of that means anything in the scope of that post- so yeah. False equivalents are false.

@15 What? You have something against gutters, gus? That's mighty gutterist of you. (How about Kurt and the blond boy with the bee stung lips???)

@20 That was kind of the point. ^_~ Also: http://tshirtportal.fortunecity.com/blog…

I don't see anywhere in Dan's post where he equates the stigmatization of fat people with the stigmatization of gay people.

Dan's argument was like this:
1. If it were reasonable to deny marriage rights to certain groups because of their having lower life expectancies, then it would be reasonable to deny marriage rights to fat people.
2. But that is ridiculous.
Therefore, it is NOT reasonable to deny marriage rights to people on account of their having lower life expectancies.

Dan could have easily used "people with terminal illnesses" or "heavy smokers", or "people with a history of heart disease" instead of "fat people".

I don't see this as an "oh snap" moment.

@1: I would still be for gay rights even if being gay was a choice.

@21: I did not misunderstand the meaning of Dan's post.

@20,
I don't know if I'd go so far as to call Londo and G'Kar "friends" exactly. They stopped hating each other and sort of began to trust and even admire and respect each other, but they were never really all that chummy.

(Oops, @20)

Oops, I meant enigma @21

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8A4CoKiA…

Why do fat people hate Dan Savage?

That was weird. Me and Lindy's brains switched for a second.

Plate o' Shrimp

Dan will stop stigmatizing fat people? Never, ever gonna happen.

Yeah, the numbers went wacky there for a sec didn't they.
@26, I think by the time Londo rescued G'Kar from prison, they considered each other friends. Not like BFFs or anything, but they had some fun times in the palace.

Canuck, thank you for your guttural encouragement.

I think your idea would solve two Glee problems in one swoop:
1. Kurt needs to quit pining and get laid already, and then get bored with who he's getting laid with and move on, like a normal gay.
2. Chase (i.e. the blond boy with the pouty lips) is perfect for Kurt to do that with, because he has nothing to do on the show right now so he might as well go gay, plus being so cute but dull, anyone could see why Kurt would do a hump-and-dump with him.

MORE LIKE LINDY BEST AMIRITE

@24 perception is what matters, not facts.

@3 Ness is correct, Lindy ftw. Sashay down that runway, Lindy, you're fabulous!

Your talents are wasted doing whatever it is you do, gus, as I would much prefer you to be a writer for Glee. And yes! although I will feel badly for Chase (see? I didn't even know he had a name...) that storyline would be perfect. Why are the cute boys always bland? Poor Tad...Todd...I mean Chase.

Go Lindy!

@24 Dan's got quite the history of hating on the overweight, so it's not surprising conclusions were jumped to.

@6 Indeed, there are many reasons why a person can be fat, like calories in > calories out and...

Oh wait, that's it.

*fetches the popcorn*

(minus the extra butter, of course)

Would it be inappropriate of me to compliment Lindy on her boobs? Cause that's what I feel like doing.

@41 Are these Lindy's?:
http://www.thestranger.com/images/blogim…
...cause they're pretty great...

@42 Any thyroid problems or metabolism issues are included in the calories-out part of the equation. No amount of thyroid problems can make a person gain weight as long as they aren't ingesting more calories than they use, however that usage happens to be impaired by medical issues. Thyroid problems don't lead to the spontaneous generation of matter.

I'll respond to Lindy's post with a post 'o my own.

In the meantime, and for reference, please link to all the many, many posts -- or columns or YouTube videos -- where I be all "hating on fat people." I do it constantly, I'm told, so there should be lots of examples, tons of recent ones and lots more from olden times.

@45 You tried this already...I think there was a reference from '98 that people should eat more veggies and eggs. So rad, so bad!

@45 noooooo! Don't take the bait! Think of the bait as that last piece of bacon! Let us have our fun!

Thank you, Lindy.

@42, I'm curious why you're staunchly defending your stance to offend and hurt people you don't know.

Sure, obesity comes down to calories consumed and expended, but there are also things like ingrained behavior, societal pressures, biological predisposition for weight gain (studies are showing that kids who eat junk food early in life--fed to them by their parents--are more likely to be obese later in life even when they change their diet habits), so on and so forth. People struggle with their issues. It's not black and white. Why are you unable to cut someone some slack and empathize with them? How about just not saying anything about fat people?

Sorry, that should be @44/OuterCrow.

@26 and 33,

*putting my pedantic nerd hat on*

By the end of the series, G'Kar and Londo considered each other best friends, to the point that they called each other "dear/old friend".

@45 don't confuse us with facts.

Next thing you know you'll be telling us you like salmon too.

@43: Damn, I supposed to be working right now, not jerking. ;-)

Not sure whose those lovelies belong to - my comment was based on the picture in Lindy's avatar. I know, it's only like 4 pixels but it comes to cleavage I've got the eyes of eagle.

@45: Weird that so many people had this simultaneous mass hallucination. Our bad!

@52 I'll empathize with people all night and day, and I understand there are important contributing factors, I just felt like pointing out that all that is subservient to the fact that you don't gain weight unless you eat the food. I'm not blaming fat people here, just stating that it's important to remember the physics at some point.

Am I the only one who read this at "Bat fan marriage", and pictured something like this: http://www.stylinonline.com/baby-tee-bat… ?

@enigma and keshmeshi,

Eh, maybe you guys are right. It's been a couple years since I re-watched B5, I should throw it in for another spin again (although I still have a hard time making it through the awful first half of the first season).

Why can't people take responsibility for themselves instead of making excuses? There is clearly a problem with obesity in this country, we are one of the most obese nations in the world! I understand that there are various factors that contribute to this (genetics, environment, etc), but you have to admit that;s it's getting worse and not ALL people have thyroid problems or whatever other factors play in to it! I do empathize and I know it's hard to lose weight, but own up to it!
http://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/trends.h…

So far, no links.

No mass hallucinations, Lindy. Just bullshit accusations.

Oh, snap!

@64 I guess I'm curious why posting links would make a difference. You obviously don't think the things you write about fat people are problematic. Is there any link in the world that would change your mind?

Let's say I posted 40 links of all the things you've written about fat people over the years. What would your response be? I'm willing to bet money it's not "You're right. The things I write about fat people are insensitive, and sometimes needlessly cruel. I shall change." That will never happen, because you're Dan Savage and you're literally NEVER WRONG.

Also, note that Lindy used the word "stigmatize" as opposed to "be all hating." These are two totally different ideas--you couch your criticism of overweight people as a broader issue with the "obesity epidemic," but why do you care? In what way does the obesity epidemic affect you personally (other than aesthetically)? You're fit. Your family is fit. We understand there's an obesity epidemic. We understand your point of view that fat people are fat because they eat too much and don't exercise enough (works for Dan Savage=works for everyone). Your posts on the obese and the obesity epidemic do nothing but stigmatize.

So, point taken, Dan. We get it. Move on.

Oooooooo!

Lindy FTW.

Dan, what you do is you constantly bring it up. If you keep tossing babies into pens full of pitbulls and then claim that you have no problem with babies, it's the pitbulls that hate babies!. . . . well. . . you're kinda full of shit.

I consider this a "price of admission" issue with you, but I do appreciate Lindy's giant, pendulous sack. <3

As do I, Violet, as do I.

Good. ;)

@58: That's funny.

@63: Dan, to my knowledge, no one at Fox News has ever referred to President Obama using the N-word, but you just know they're thinking it.

Some of your posts on the subject of weight have a similar feel to them. But, hey, if you're personal opinions of fat people have been misunderstood, it should be pretty easy to clear things up, right?

Fat people defy the laws of thermodynamics. They eat moderate meals and get adequate exercise yer they keep generating matter from nothing! Maybe we should study their magic biochemistry and the energy crisis will be solved. Scientists, on the ready!!!

If you are overweight and are unsure of what to do, I have the perfect diet for you:

PUT THE GODDAMN FORK DOWN.

That is all.

@73/74/etc.

Hey, I'll make you a deal. YOU lose 30% of your body weight and keep it off for 2 years, and then you're allowed to come back and post idiotic shit on the slog.

Don't need to lose 30% of your body weight? Doesn't matter. The metabolic freak-out that your body would undergo, and the miserable, constant obsession that it would take for you to keep it off, is the same exact thing that my body would go through. Our bodies do not CARE about an ideal BMI, they care about not starving. They don't CARE where we start, only that we don't lose weight, because in the world we evolved in, losing weight means that you're dying.

YOU try going through your life as a productive member of society while ignoring your hypothalamus telling you that you're dying 24/7. And then come back and tell us how easy it is.

I can't wait! :D

I think #66 is very smart and I would like to buy him/ her a very nice present.

Having one foot solidly (quite solidly) in both the fat and gay camps I understand Dan's analogy and it's use in pointingout absurd homophobic logic. But I'm a ittle bit in love w/ Lindy right now...

@61,

I feel that way about most of the fifth season, save the last couple of episodes. It's necessary to watch to find out what happened to the characters, but they had fucking Penn and Teller on one of those episodes. *vomit*

Hey 75, if you're constantly starving, than you're doing it wrong.

It's funny. I gained a few over the holidays (who doesn't?) and somehow managed to lose it all and then some without succumbing to THE DEATH. Let's see. I started off at 135 right after Xmas, I'm at 120 now so, 15/135=0.11 ... Wow! 11% of my body weight and I didn't die. What's my secret?

Not eating whatever the fuck I want whenever the fuck I want. Counting calories to make sure that I'm not overeating. 20 minutes of yoga every morning, 20 minutes of brisk walking during my commmute. Not taking the elevator. Seems pretty reasonable and sustainable to me.

If I lost 30% of my body weight, I'd probably stop menstruating. At 5'6" and 95lbs I'd be sick. My body would have a real reason to be in starvation mode. That's why at my goal weight where I am now, I will eat enough calories to maintain my weight. If I wanted/needed to lose more, I'd continue with fewer calories daily for longer. If you cut too many calories a day, then you're hungry and fatigued, so just cut a few. It might be slow work, but you have to be patient.

At least have the honesty to admit (at least to yourself) that you just don't have the willpower to make the lifestyle changes needed to lose weight. Stop blaming your weight problems on everything but your own behavior.

So, because I complained about Dan's post in the original thread, I was told my sarcasm meter is broken & I have no life. *sigh* I hate to make that 2nd point seem true by sifting through the SL archives, but I have a few minutes before cuddle time w/ my honey & if it helps settle the point -

Obesity is something Dan has discussed many times in a thoughtful way, such as this:

http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/obes…

That's a simple truth: better foods - veggies vs. fast food - & working out = weight loss. 100% agree! & obesity is a big problem in the U.S. Where our fast-food eateries go overseas, obesity follows in their wake.

A lot of Dan's mentioning of this serious social problem have been laced w/ snark but in a way that calls attention to the problem w/ out meanness, such as the one about don't feed donuts to your obese children. There's a buncha times where Dan's sense of aesthetics seems to outweigh the concern -

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Savag…

I believe strongly in dressing to type. I'm a chubby chick (one with an actual medical issue, PCOS, but yes, healthier since employing the magic formula of less food, better food & exercise). You would not catch me not just dead, but zombified, in a pair of muffin top makin' jeans.

This addresses both health issues & aesthetics (fat rolls are unsightly, Dan says):

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/Savag…

Now, do I think men or women should be wearing fashion crimes against nature? Of course not. But there's plenty of people who find the sight of two men holding hands, kissing, etc, gross or unsightly to look at. You'd tell 'em to look somewhere else, wouldn't you?

This is an interesting piece about how folks in the fat-acceptance movement don't wanna acknowledge eating disorders:

http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/10/big_…

This one points out how f'd up it is that fat folks sometimes have problems getting good quality care from their doctor (hmm, do folks remember posts like this when they yell @ Dan for the seeming fatphobia?):

http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/toda…

The comment thread on this post (to flabby arms? Sooo 'funny'!): http://slog.thestranger.com/2008/01/to_a…

- contains what I think is the root of most folks's problem w/ the bitchy tone Dan employs when discussing fat people. Dan asks his readers, frequently, to support gay rights & causes (most folks reading Slog already do, I'd bet). But -

"Why should I care about gay bashing/hating if gay people like Dan Savage don't care about bashing/hating on fat people like me? I'm speaking hypothetically of course.
Posted by Kristin Bell | January 27, 2008 12:25 PM"

Is the below thoughtful or pointmaking?

http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archive…

Thankfully I couldn't find that vacation photo of the couple standing in front of Dawn, just the back of them/their asses, in some Midwestern state. (Missouri?) That was way more ha-ha, fatties, than helpful for sure.

I think Dan himself, with his avowed love of cheap cake & brownies, fears becoming fat. I also think it not very likely, as he moves at a pretty fast pace. Dan, I think your heart's in the right place, but the tone doesn't work, for some. Maybe you should think that over.

If you run "savage" + either obese, fat, fat ass or obesity on the Stranger search engine, you come up w/ an awful lot of hits, showing that although I found the mentions to be more balanced than I expected, there was a lot of 'em, & some were very mean-spirited.

..and cuddle time has just been upgraded to booty time, so, GTG. Priorities. There's your (calorie free) food for thought for the evenin'.

(oops, that Midwest photo of the large couple was taken while folks were standing in front of Dan, not Dawn.)

yeah, no. 66 has it. you are a very astute mediator, sir or madam.

while what dan said IN THIS INSTANCE is not technically inflammatory toward fat people, he sure does talk about fat people a lot, which might make one think that he has some sort of an issue with them. his point in the linked post is encased in, ahem . . . perhaps unnecesary statistics about fat people in the state of iowa. so, he may not come out and say overtly negative things, but the triggers are there. i can definitely see why lindy is offended.

that said, dan has a point. he'd just have a much stronger point if he didn't fall back on his fat-people obsession to illustrate it. and screaming nuh unh doesn't help much either.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=dan+savage+…. enjoy.

@ 58 - Lindy, considering that half the country denies global warming, and a whopping 24% believe President Obama is a Muslim, it's pretty clear that the fact that a lot of people think something hardly makes it true.

Dan's posts do sometimes make some pretty insensitive jokes, but it really doesn't rise to the level of fat-bashing. More often than not, he actually seems pretty sensitive about it - e.g., the problem isn't with the bigger college girl who can't find a boyfriend, it's with the insecure piece of shit college boys that deny their attraction to bigger girls. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTKb0k7W6…)

@ 75 - Saying "Why don't YOU lose weight?" to someone who's at a healthy weight is pretty unproductive. No one is saying that weight loss is easy, and different people have different set points, but there's a difference between acknowledging those truths (and rejecting the stick-thin standard of beauty as the only standard of beauty) and pretending that proper diet and physical activity have nothing to do with weight. (Also, I'm pretty sure if I dropped to 75 pounds I would literally die.)

@ 79/81 - Wow, that was thorough. Well done, hon. Hope booty time went well for you.

Alright, off to racking up those billables. (Who needs diet and exercise when you have good old fashioned law firm stress to keep you thin?)

73, Hear, hear, very well put.

75, Healthy weight people don't need to lose 30% of their body mass. People who are 30% overweight do. If one is losing weight in a manner that puts one's body into starvation mode, then he or she is losing the weight in an unhealthy way. At most, an overweight person should lose weight at about 4 to 6 lbs a month. Losing it faster means one is eating in an unsustainable way, and will fail at maintaining a healthy weight.

To successfully maintain a healthy weight a person needs to eat a reasonable amount of calories for his or her height, and activity level, and eat properly for the rest of his or her life.

But 85! Eating Healthily and exercising for the rest of one's life means that they have to be "on a diet" for the rest of their life! Everyone knows dieting isn't healthy!! Fuck chicken breast, broccoli and whole wheat rigatoni in a light white wine sauce, I want some cheeseburgers and fries!!!

@75
Clearly you're fat and I encourage you to take breaths when shoveling that Big Mac in your mouth. You might find you're actually full after just a few bites, but you don't. You probably uncomfortably sweat and grunt as you inhale 1400 calories in under two minutes, and that was just your lunch.

For those who stop at starbucs for a extra large moca-fato with a blueberry muffin or have a smoothie for lunch: take a look at the actual calories your eating. Most smoothies have more calories THAN a Big Mac.

Go Lindy, go Lindy!!!

You too Violet de Grinder and you Starsandgarters.

And will all the people who aren't MDs (pretty much every fucking fact hater on here) please shut the fuck up about thyroids. You don't know shit. I happen to have a thyroid problem (it's called HYPO-thyroidism) and yeah it causes a ridiculously sluggish metabolism despite the fact I exercise every effing day. There's also Cushing's syndrome which causes morbid obesity and death. People who have full-blown AIDS some times develop Cushings.

And there's also the BBC's "Why Thin People Are Not Fat" -- possibly the BEST documentary ever made about obesity, or more specifically, why skinny people are FREAKS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6-A0iHSd…

The last time I took a human sexuality class, it seemed that the commonly accepted non-crazy medical thinking was that there is a very wide spectrum of natural, healthy human sexuality and that where a person falls on that spectrum and how they express that behaviorally is a combination of genetics and social / psychological factors that we haven't exactly nailed down. There are places on the outer-edges of the spectrum that are pathological and people who fall into those places can cause real harm to themselves or others and in those cases society and the medical community should take positive steps to alleviate whatever conditions put the person in that place on the spectrum and thereby reduce harm.

The last time I took a human physiology class, it seemed that the commonly accepted non-crazy medical thinking on obesity was that there is a very wide spectrum of natural, healthy body types and that where a person falls on that spectrum and how they express that behaviorally is a combination of genetics and social / psychological factors that we haven't exactly nailed down. There are places on the outer-edges of the spectrum that are pathological and people who fall into those places can cause real harm to themselves or others and in those cases society and the medical community should take positive steps to alleviate whatever conditions put the person in that place on the spectrum and thereby reduce harm.

See how that works?

@79 is spot on - Dan doesn't necessarily hate on fat people - in point of fact, the original post about banning fat marriage actually made a very good point about the absurdity of the arguments against gay marriage and parenting - but he is contemptuous of overweight people, or even people who don't fall into the socially defined standard of physical fitness, in a way that only a person who's never been fat and probably never will be can.

Personally, I'm just glad to see somebody on the Stranger staff actually forcefully call Dan out on *anything*, and Lindy is well loved enough that they can't really have her quietly phased out without it getting noticed. Brass balls, funny lady.

I think we should settle this once and for all:

Who would win in a fight? A hundred fat people or a hundred gay people?

@89, so hypothyroidism + cushings + other metabolic disorders = 30% of the US population? That 30% who are classified as obese and morbidly obese? With that logic I suppose 30% of Americans are severely underweight and morbidly underweight due to hyperthyroidism and other metabolic disorders working in the opposite fashion?

Yeah no. You may have a metabolic disorder, but the rest of y'all are just FAT.

Wrong. It does affect me, it affects us all. Every time I ride a plane train or bus and half of my seat that I paid for goes to somebody else. When I pay my insurance premiums and that money goes to pay for your type II diabetes treatment. Please. Smokers get shit all the time (seen the NY Times today? Banning smokers, not just tobacco use, in the workplace), the obese are not immune from scrutiny just because it hurts their feelings.

@ 87 & 88 - Wow, you guys are major jerks. Your OWN attitudes towards heavy people are coming through loud and clear.

Geez, just try shaming everyone who's dealing with weight issues! Make them feel HORRIBLE about what they're dealing with - the fat you see may just be the tip of the iceberg, you don't know - but you sure DO KNOW HOW TO JUDGE!!

THAT IS SO VERY VERY HELPFUL!!

We get it, you two are not fat and you hate fatties and fatties are horrible lazy people. Check.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELPFUL, HELPFUL CONTRIBUTIONS!! I'm sure with the help of you two sterling individuals, America's Obesity Epidemic will be all cleared up in no time!!

Jerks.

And yeah, Dan - it's your tone more often than not. Through your tone, YOU make clear exactly how you feel about fatties. Enough people have called you on it by now, I'd hope you'd at least 'take it under advisement'.

At least, at the very least, it would be great if EVERYONE could realize that when they see a heavy person, THEY DON'T KNOW the circumstances behind that particular body situation. Assuming that they do, and then going on to JUDGE that person based on an assumption, is just a jackass move, plain and simple.

Don't be a jackass.

(And @ 79 - Honey, you deserve a medal!!)

96 - just don't see the point in holding others to significantly lesser standards than I hold myself. Everybody ignores my post where I successfully lost 11% of my bodyweight through diet and exercise. I mean, if you don't want to, that's fine, but you're not immune from criticism, just like smokers aren't. And all the fat people screaming "calories in, calories out is not the issue!!" are just either stupid or deluded. Thermodynamics. You can't defy the rules that govern the whole damn universe. I don't really care wether or not you're fat, buy with all the ignorant comments from fat people blaming everyone and everything but their own actions, well, I learned something about the way fat people really think, and it's really abbhorent to me. Take some responsibility! Shit!

@ 90 Nicely put.

Everyone is talking about "healthy" people versus fat people, but that isn't really the issue. Yes, like Billy says there is a broad array of healthy body types and the degree of impact that a few extra pounds have on overall health varies depending on where you fall in that spectrum. But that is true of a lot of things: drinking, smoking, marathon running, motor cycle riding, sky diving, sex. All of those things carry with them varying degrees of risk determined by the degree to which the person "indulges." With all of these activities, and as Dan has said about sex, each person needs to assess his or her own level of risk. Should gay men have anal sex? Well, condoms break and talk about cost to society! Anti-retrovirals are EXPENSIVE.

So what is different about fat? Why are a few extra pounds so abhorrent? Why did pastae fagoli lose 15 pounds so that she was back down to 120? Disgust. Just like all the anti gay marriage stuff boils down to, say it with me... disgust. Conservatives drive themselves crazy trying to come up with justifications for why gays are wrong, but really it's just about the "ewww" factor. Anal sex is yucky, so conservatives bring a highly energized level of judgment to any conversation about gay issues. The same happens when people talk about fat. [see comments above.]

I think what this is really about is that many of Dan's readers (and probably Lindy) can detect that when he sees fat, any fat, he sees ugliness and essentially moral failure. He is willing to believe that some people don't find it ugly. He is willing to allow fat people to exist and he will sort of half heartedly advocate for them in his posts and podcasts (but lets be honest, what he really wants the fat chick to do is drop 20 lbs.), but that disgust is palpable to a person sensitive to it. Dan, like many many gay men, would not have sex with a fattie. And I'm not talking about a 300 lb sideshow. If I had to bet I would say that Dan wouldn't be interested in a guys who is even 10 or 20 pounds outside of optimal. Or a guy with a bit of a tummy.

And that is of course his sexual right. But it is our right (I'm no svelte gym bunny) to not enjoy his and everyone else's disgust. And fat is one of the few things it is really ok to not like aesthetically. If I said I would never have sex with a black guy, not matter what, because on some level his dark skin was disgusting to me, people would, in the most generous cases, call me out on it. So that's what is going on. At least that's what I think.

@98 - DMElkins, I return the kudos wholeheartedly and with extra thumbs up. That was perfect, thank you.

And I'll go you one further in the analogy - The most vociferous haters of heavier people are similar to the most vociferous haters of gay people, in that both of them are secretly terrified that they might secretly be / become the thing that they hate. I have nothing but kudos and support for people who are in a legitimately unhealthy relationship with food who make a decision to change that relationship for the better, but, to me, someone like pastaefagoli honestly sounds really similar to a"cured" gay person desperately ranting about how abhorrent and disgusting and morally weak people who are still acting on their "sinful desires" are.

@ 100

Billy, you have to check out this radio documentary. Honestly, so should pastaefagoli, but if wishes were fishes...

http://www.thirdcoastfestival.org/librar…

Grrr. Didn't go through.

http://www.thirdcoastfestival.org/librar…

How many overweight or obese people posting in this thread can honestly claim it is completely beyond their control?

Oh, and I thought I was arguing against the absurd excuses made by fat people about why they *just can't* lose weight. My bad, I guess I was being bigoted against you all along. Silly me.

Hardly any of the fat people in here say that they don't mind being fat, or prefer to be fat. What they are saying is that they can't lose weight for xyz reasons and how dare you judge me! Nobody is above scrutiny, myself included.

The assertion that I was disgusted with myself + 15 lbs is a little absurd. I prefer the way my clothes fit, the way my body looks and the way I feel at my current weight. I was willing to sacrifice beer and pizza to have the body I wanted to have. I quit smoking, too. It's not just about weight but health, and lifestyle. I got back into cooking, which I always loved, but had neglected for a long time. I don't have to respect your unhealthy lifestyle.