Hmm. It sounds like a classic case of "she's just not that into you" to me. And the fact that he can't "read between the lines" might be a big part of why she had to give so many seemingly trivial reasons.

Maybe she's just freaking out, or maybe he's an unemployed lawyer with a messy house that hates camping.

The fact that he's got some alternate theory for all the aspects of their relationship she's not happy with tells me he either isn't a very good listener, or these two have a mountain of work ahead of them should they want to be together.

Whatever you get paid for dealing with this shit, Dan, it isn't enough.

Great advice, by the way. As always.

People who like running around in the woods are often serial killers. You dodged a bullet there.

For some reason I'm picturing this guy as the type of person who won't accept any given reason for breaking up, so she had to throw a zillion reasons at him before he would kind of/sort of accept that they're through.

I think she broke up with him for any one of those reasons (or some other reason she prefers not to speak of, whose name is possibly Jim), but then he kept asking WHY? WHY? And she kept desperately trying to come up with an answer that would get him to accept it and leave her apartment. When that didn't work, she deployed the nuclear option: the follow-up "maybe you can talk me out of it" meeting. (Which she will either cancel or schedule about 10 minutes before a really important yoga class.) So Dan's advice is correct: do nothing, because there's nothing you can do. She wants to break up. She's not the only woman out there. Go meet one. And clean up your damn apartment already.

In a region with 30,000 surplus males, the tendency for females to play the field is going to be especially high.

Looking for a "reason" why she broke up with you? Really, almost anyone will do...but it's supply and demand. She can have you with ease (you've made it clear by bending to her every demand) whereas, at least here, she can find you or better than you at the drop of a hat.

Is this me being "Rush" and saying all females are Wh---s. No, this is me saying that a female can be just as calculating as a male...who will (almost) always take any opportunity for good sex as it comes.

I am saying, you've come a long way, baby. It's just that we hetero-males have yet to recognize it.

But what do I know.

If you want expert advice, ask Dan Savage...or better yet, the panel at One Girl, Five Gays:

http://www.logotv.com/shows/one_girl_fiv…

If she wants to be broken-up, let her be broken-up. It's pretty painful to have someone want to end the relationship. If someone breaks up with me, I'm going to assume they meant it; I mean why else would they put me (and themselves) through that, otherwise?

I assume and hope she wasn't doing it as a manipulation of some sort.

Maybe she honestly doesn't want to spend the rest of her life cleaning up after you and not getting to go hiking. That's reasonable.

Stop trying to be what she wants. You need to start developing your own sense of self. Be who you are. Nobody wants a noodle that just wraps itself around them. I had a boyfriend once who tried to go along with everything I wanted, and tried to be everything I wanted. Drove me crazy. You be you. If there are places in a relationship where two people would be happier if one of them compromised here, and the other compromised there, then great. But don't change who you are. Just some of your behaviors. In other words, get a backbone.

@9 Exactly. Without knowing how long they were together, they either grew apart or didn't have enough in common to begin with. Messyness and lack of shared interests are legit reasons to end a relationship, in my opinion. Whatever the case, realize that she's done damage to whatever bond they shared. It's up to the LW to determine whether that damage can be fixed, and it's up to his gf to decide whether she wants to give things another go.

It sounds like she's been trying to break up with you for awhile. She finally got tired of baiting you with things to change about yourself. You were supposed to either refuse to change or to ask her to change something about herself. In either case that would have been the grounds for the breakup.

@13
Read carefully. He's a lawyer.

Dude needs to move on. Get re-acquainted with himself. Find someone new. Take a year off dating and think about who he is and what he wants. Then go get that.

Unless she gave him all those reasons in list form -- which would actually tickle me immensely, as a disinterested audience member -- then @6 hit the nail right on the head. I've done that breakup; I know whereof I speak.

And @7: how many of those "surplus males" you mention are hooking up with other surplus males? Or are they balanced out by the ladies who hook up with other ladies? Where do bi/pansexuals fit into your evidence? People don't numerically self-distribute according to regional census data. Not even those calculating females of yours.

You know that part where you said you "don't 'read between the lines' very well"? But you go on to make assumptions about what lies between the lines anyway?

You're a terrible listener.

Also, you're 28 and a professional - and unemployed with time on your hands, at that. Clean up your fucking house.

I'm with 2 and 5: You can only break up with me if you make an airtight case, and a) I'm a lawyer; b) I will accommodate any request you make of me, so you have no valid reason. (Requests to clean my house, hike, and a whole bunch of other stuff are areas where I don't accommodate you for very logical reasons that would hold up on cross.)

@19: You just may be my hero.

Re 7, 17: Did I miss the part about Alaska? How do we know how many surplus males there are nearby?

If she's an academic, she might find herself having to take a series of one-year appointments all over the country. This does not make for a healthy family life or even a healthy dating relationship. It sounds like she is cutting you loose now before you get in too deeply and then split up with her once you realize what a crappy next ten years she's about to have.

@7 Seems like I've heard this before... pretty neat trick since I can't actually hear...

Her random and scattered reasons sound like the kind of things you say when you don't want to say, "I'm just not feeling it," and your soon-to-be ex is not taking goodbye for an answer.

Oops, I should have read the thread before commenting. Redundancy is redundant.

reason this guy got dumped.

NATWC "Can you think of a fourth way forward for us? Or are we doomed to return to the single life? "
Dan: asks pertinent question
NATWC: answers question
Dan: asks another pertinent question
NATWC: "... But I've noticed that you haven't actually answered my question (douchey)...... I don't mind getting the brush-off—I know you're busy (passive aggressive). I would appreciate it if you'd at least be explicit about it (straight up aggressive)"

Dan was trying to get some information from him and he quickly becomes a total douche. I am going to go with this guy is a jerk, a horrible listener and communicator in general. If he is pulling this shit with an advice columnist, imagine what conversations with his girlfriend must have been like.

She sounds controlling, he sounds like a clueless knob. Both are better off with someone else.

@17

Sure, you can run the numbers.

Or you can simply drop by any bar, event or other public gathering place and see the imbalance.

Couple that with the endless anecdotal evidence that Savage presents, and only the slowest reader could not draw the obvious conclusion.

@28:
>sure, you can run the numbers
>or you can simply get some anecdotal evidence and call it a day
>Dan Savage responds to people's anecdotes, so it's all good in the hood

Since when did Dan become the go-to guy for banal twenty-somethings who can't take "I'm just not that into you" for an answer?

I really don't know how you do it, Dan. Bless you.

Yea.
Speaking as a lady person, I have been guilty of giving bullshitty reasons when breaking up with a man, such as the LW recieved, ("it's not you, it's me." "I just don't want a boyfriend right now." "we're at different places in life." etc. etc.) when really the truth is I was just not into the guy and wanted to have sex with other people.
You do this when you're young. Sorry LW.

I see there are two possibilities.

1) What you describe as 'the point when you start to factor the other person into your future plans', your girlfriend probably viewed as 'falling in love,' and realized that she was not falling in love with you and was not going to fall in love with you. In which case, there's really no other option than to break up, and there's nothing you can do except cope and move on.

2) Your girlfriend is worried that if she asks you to make a major sacrifice, like moving across the country with her if she gets a plum job at a cushy university, you'll end up resenting her for it. She's worried that being attached to you might cause her to pass up great opportunities in states where you haven't passed the bar, and she doesn't want to do that. And if she doesn't want to do that herself, she doesn't feel like it's fair to ask you to do that.

If that's the case, then there's hope. Tell her that a long-term romance is a partnership, and sometimes one partner is called upon to make what looks like an unequal sacrifice for the partnership to continue. However, it's not really an unequal sacrifice - because for you to move to another state and have to take the bar over again is far less of a sacrifice than having to give her up entirely. And even if you move to wherever she gets an academic job - well, she'll have to sacrifice a bit, too, because it's a fair expectation that she'll support you while you both find work.

But, it might not be that. When you meet with her, ask her straight up - "Are you in love with me, and do you want this to work out?" If she can't answer both questions with a definitive 'yes', your meeting is pretty much over - there's nothing to do after that except exchange pleasantries and then go home and put up a new ad on OKCupid.

My take: She just wasn't into him. He asked for reasons and said he could fix it, so she kept throwing more reasons on top of it to make the relationship seem unfixable. Unfortunately this guy really can't read between the eyes.

@34 Perhaps it's appetite or perhaps just social conditioning. Women bear more social (not to mention physical) risks and stigma for casual sex.

LW,

She doesn't like you. She doesn't want to be in a relationship with you. She was trying to be nice.

Get it?

Now forget the meeting with her. No good will come of it. It is a waste of her time and yours.

Here's how breakups work: The dumper dumps the dumpee. Both move on.

Get it?

Good. Now go clean your place.

Speaking from some experience, people who are ridiculously dirty and messy generally won't classify themselves as that. Being a person who is incredibly clean that has lived with 17 different roommates over the past 20 months (not all at the same time) out of whom I'd only live with two or three, I require any partner whom I'd live with and spend my life with to meet a certain standard. I don't feel like it's that ridiculous not to want to have a life partner that only makes you frustrated when you come home every day.

There's a lot to be happy about, dude.

You'll no longer have to deal with all her crap, for starters. Or her parents' crap. You can go to burning man. You can focus more time on your career. And every day comes with the exciting possibility that the next woman you meet could become your next love. Or your next blowjob.

Some day you will look back on the day she dumped you as the luckiest day in your life.

Here is my stab at reading between the lines:

"she breaks up with me so I can look for work that might require me to relocate" translation: she thinks you should be working harder at finding a job. She is terrified of having to support you, especially on an academic's salary. Possibly she anticipates having to relocate herself, and fears dragging you somewhere you can't practice law (see fear of supporting you), or she fears having to turn down relocation opportunities to stay with you here where your license is valid.

"she doesn't like that I change my behavior to conform to her expectations, but don't have anything to ask of her" translation: you are so easygoing she thinks you have no ambition (and hey you are unemployed, see fear of supporting you)

"I don't keep my house clean enough" translation: even out of work you can't even manage to keep your place clean? see lack of ambition, above.

Maybe all of that is what you meant by "
"either she was going to have to compromise what she wanted out of her life (at least by delaying her plans), or she was going to have to impose on me."

It's pretty clear to me that she has completed her internal evaluation of you and stamped you "not a match." I'd say don't chase after her trying to prove something. She's moved on, you move on.

Jesus. Clean up your shit. She didn't want to spend a lifetime as your maid, dude.

Duh.

@28: Why don't you "surplus males" move the fuck to NYC?

@4 FTW (although srsly I agree with everyone who said "she dumped you, deal with it")

All the answers are right smack in his own writing.

The excuses are kinda funny though ("You don't like running around in the woods!"). Move on dude..

Dude, if someone isn't feeling it, you can't convince them that logically they should be feeling it and all their reasons are invalid. She broke up with you. You are broken up. Clean your house, and drown your sorrows in beer and pussy.

After his "I notice you didn't answer my question to my satisfaction but that's my problem not yours" response, my first thought was "Maybe she realized she wasn't ready to spend the next 30 years with this big heaping pile of passive aggressive and decided possibly dying alone had to be an improvement."

The best analysis is probably the very first, emma's bee@1 above. NATWC, in the end, it doesn't matter why exactly she doesn't want the relationship. Maybe it's a trivial reason, maybe it's a serious one she's not willing to admit (say, she's found someone else). Anyway, if she doesn't want it, then she doesn't want it, and you'll be probably better off looking for someone who does want it than trying to prove to her that she's wrong.

Why are you talking to Dan Savage about this anyway, when there's only one person who can give you your answer? The question answers itself.

And Dan, if you keep printing letters like this, I'm going to stop reading your blog. I know, you're heartbroken.

Call me confused. How can the NATWC not keep his "house clean enough" while apparently be changing his "behavior to conform to her expectations". Dude, you're NOT conforming to her expectations if your house is still a mess.

Paragraph 2: "Here's what I think...."
Paragraph 3: "I'm not convinced...."

NATWC slots relationships (and most likely most aspects of his life) within the boundaries of an adversarial system, as he only views them from the point of persuasion or argument, depending on how much logic-by-force he believes he needs to apply to win his case. Unfortunately, his (now ex-) gf wasn't interested in having their potential life together be turned into a daily courtroom drama. I don't blame her one bit.

But, oh, what a drama or, more accurately, melodrama.

"Or are we doomed to return to the single life?"

NATWC, clean up your damn house and focus your energy on getting a job. Then learn how to relate to a woman in whom you're interested. Or all people, in general. A broken relationship =/= a court decision against you. Or ... uh ... DOOM.

::groans and wanders off in search of an illuminating breakfast::

NATWC,

Now is the time for you to find a position, and get on with your life.

Everyone gets dumped, it sucks but that is reality. Take her reasons as advice and find your dream position, wherever that may be. When you can afford it, hire a cleaning service (and stimulate the economy). This way you better yourself for the next time someone is interested in you, and you can show how much you like to be nature (but of course she'll be into art museums and opera).

FWIW, most people don't enjoy living their private lives like it is a debate, not even academics. But, then again some people do.

Good Luck.

In her opinion, you two are not working as a couple. She doesn't want to continue the relationship you have now. I get your need to nail things down, because I'm the same way, but just let it go. Really. Accept that it's not working for her.

This guy thinks he's great and can't wrap his head around the idea that she'd want to break up with him, so he's dismissing her feelings as "odd" and "bizarre". And Dan's feeding into that. (She's having a "panic attack" and her reasons for ending things are "scattered" and "random" due to her "lady-parts". That response basically boils down to, "Look bro, bitches be trippin!")

LW: You're 28, unemployed, don't share her interests and can't keep your house clean. If she loved you, maybe none of that stuff would matter. But she doesn't love you. Move on.

no surprise this guy's a lawyer - his letter reads like he's prepping a cross examination, knocking down all of the opposing counsel's points. Except a person isn't required to prove that the relationship isn't working - if it's not working FOR THEM, it's not working. Arguing the details isn't going to make her come back, it'll probably just help her get over the relationship sooner.

And @6 FTW

Shocking...all these years reading Dan (starting in print!) and THIS is what gets me to register! *eyesroll*

But, it is possible that conforming too readily to some of her perceived expectations is indeed a problem for her. If so, it is also likely that she is a wise woman. Did she tell him what her 'expectations' were and ask him to change? I went through something like this and, if a similar situation, the answer is probably not. She is probably a little unnerved by him seeming to just follow her lead. She might be someone like me who has a tendency to take the lead when here seems to be a vacuum and she doesn't want that responsibility all the time in a relationship.

Or -- she could be freaking out about her career. Being a woman in academia is hard. And it's even harder if you're attached. And it's harder still if you've got children. Basically, if she's 28, I'm guessing she's finishing up her dissertation. The next part of her life, if she wants to stay in academia, is to relocate around the country 2 or 3 or 4 times in the next several years. She likely doesn't want to ask you if you're up for that. Because that's a big burden to put on someone, especially if she's not sure yet if she wants to spend the rest of her life with you. So's she's probably putting pressure on herself to figure out if you're the one to stay with "forever" -- because if the answer's "no" and she asks you to keep relocating to be with her, she's going to feel horrible about herself. Just saying. You might want to indicate whether you'd be willing to move 2 or 3 or 4 times in the next, say, 5 years in order to stay with her. If it's no big deal for you, it might be a big load off her shoulders.

I think the majority here are too biased against the writer.

Guy sounds honest to me about his situation and expectations. Even when he snipes a bit at Dan for dodging the question he explains that it's probably his fault.

He doesn't mention how long the relationship was but the too-easy "Sex and the City" phrase "She's just not that into you" doesn't apply when you're dating for long enough to consider yourself a couple. Couples go through rough patches and sometimes work them out. My wife and I broke up for some months when we were still dating and then realized that it was over similar reason; afraid of the compromises, etc. Breaking up gave us the perspective that we weren't better off. I've heard the same story from my happily long-married friends to the point where it's a cliche.

I'm guessing it's the "I'm not convinced" line that is making commenters pile on. It does sound a bit desperate.

Odds are probably is no longer be into him. Dan's advice is right, he needs to let her go with none of the emotional tampon "just friends" stuff. If she's better off without him he'll know when she doesn't come back.

In the mean time grieve the loss, stay fit, get out of the house, double-down on work, hang with friends, delete her contact information to avoid the pathetic drunk-dial/email/message urge, and toss or store away any reminders of her existence in your home till you're over it.

You don't have a job (so you are not contributing financially), you don't clean (trivial or not this is annoying to a working woman), and you don't have an identity (you conform completely to her actions). These are the reasons she's breaking up with you. All the reasons you listed for the break-up are things that you forced her to say by not accepting that she doesn't want to spend her time and energy on you any longer.

Stop being 'not convinced'. She really did break-up with you. The 'meeting' is nothing but a check-up on the break-up and she will probably be a lot nicer to you due to her relief at finally breaking up... but you will not get back together. Move on. She has.

Why wouldn't she break up with you? You're a naggy, sycophantic, unemployed slob who admittedly has to have people constantly spell things out for you and you're pushy. Also, you seem to ask for advice, but in a way to ensure you get the answer you want (or try to anyway.) You want her back? Here's an idea: bring something, ANYTHING, to the table. As it is now, all you're giving her is a doormat. And at least the kind you can buy from Target help keep the place CLEAN.

What many others have said here: she likely just wasn't that into him. When someone isn't into another person, it's hardly unusual for them to not be truthful about why they really want to break things off.

Supreme at 7 "In a region with 30,000 surplus males..." and 28 "Or you can simply drop by any bar, event or other public gathering place and see the imbalance."

In my experience, men outnumber women at many events, like the First Thursday Art Walks, and they definitely outnumber women in clubs and bars. But that doesn't mean that men outnumber women in this area. It may be that women are just less likely to be out and about than men are. In the case of clubs and bars in particular, men are probably far more willing to go there alone than women are, and that creates an imbalance.

57 I think what's setting people is that he seems to be acting like his girlfriends feelings don't matter.

Another commenter made a good point that he's treating this like trial, basically saying she can't dump him because she doesn't have enough evidence, even though relationships don't work that way.

I didn't read all the comments so pardon me if this has already been said. As a female graduate student, I'm keenly aware that I will probably have to choose between having being a competitive candidate for things like post-docs and professorships and tenure, and having a husband/family. To be competitive, I'd have to move around a lot and take positions that only last a year or two. I'd have to put off having children until I had tenure in my late 30s or early 40s. The academic life, in short, is not friendly to women who want to have families. LW's girlfriend probably did the same research I did, looked at her odds and realized she was going to choose her career over this guy eventually. (I looked at it and decided to get out of academia, but that's another story). It sucks that we have to make that choice, but there you have it. Her dumping him, and her ambivalence about it, must be understood in that context.

I think classifying the house-cleaning preferences and enjoyment of exercise/nature discrepancies as "trivial" is very telling... Both of these can be very important, and also indicative of other major differences in character.